Charlotte Bobcats’ Byron Mullens: A power forward, not center

[superb1]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/03/26/3129738/charlotte-bobcats-byron-mullens.html

This is interesting that Silas thinks this of his roster and I wonder how this effects our draft plans, if they plan for Mullens and Biz to be PFs along with TT and DJW and Diop possibly starting. Do we draft davis and make him a center or draft someone else.

[Toocool]

I kind of figured the same. Pau Gasol plays PF because he's soft on D, don't see why Mully can't follow in his footsteps. Allows him to play further out from the paint where he's more comfortable too.

[JohnnyTimmons]

Is there any reason we couldnt draft Davis and run him at small forward, if Mullins proves to be starter worthy at PF? I hear Davis has an outside shot, being a guard until recently, and that he can block outside the paint as well.

Kemba
Hendo
Davis
Mullins
Biyombo

(Hopefully we could use Mullins as a backup though, dunno if I see him starting.)

[SWedd523]

Is there any reason we couldnt draft Davis and run him at small forward, if Mullins proves to be starter worthy at PF? I hear Davis has an outside shot, being a guard until recently, and that he can block outside the paint as well.

Kemba
Hendo
Davis
Mullins
Biyombo

(Hopefully we could use Mullins as a backup though, dunno if I see him starting.)

In any event we draft Davis, he'll be given the starting PF spot from day one. We certainly won't play him out of position just to facilitate Mullens.

[superb1]

In any event we draft Davis, he'll be given the starting PF spot from day one. We certainly won't play him out of position just to facilitate Mullens.
I agree, I see a perfect logjam at PF, with Biz staying at center (contrary to what Silas suggested though.) I see TT and Mully splitting time as backup with Mullens moving to C at times and TT at SF? (ouch) that may leave DJW as odd man out.


Is there any reason we couldnt draft Davis and run him at small forward, if Mullins proves to be starter worthy at PF? I hear Davis has an outside shot, being a guard until recently, and that he can block outside the paint as well.

Kemba
Hendo
Davis
Mullins
Biyombo

(Hopefully we could use Mullins as a backup though, dunno if I see him starting.)

I was unsure if Davis could be used a SF, I forgot he start out as a guard.

wow, I can imagine that line up at times, Biz,Tyrus and Davis up front. I hope this solves our poor upfront D.

[adam187]

i've been hoping silas would play mullens and biyombo together. that's the lineup i'm most interested in watching.

i think silas is just coming from that old-school mentality about centers still. i mean the celtics were starting kevin garnett at center last night (and killed us).

i do not see mullens as a starter in the long term, but i'd be more than happy for him to start at PF the rest of the year.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

I have to gloat a bit. I brought up and supported the notion of Mullens as a "4-man" maybe 2 months ago.(That thread is probably listed at the bottom of the page)

And I've been saying Bismack is likely not a FULLTIME Center for the long haul. He's a good player for part time Center. But we should limit his minutes against guys 10-20 pounds heavier.

I guess Silas sees it the same way.

And no, don't play Davis at SF. His game is all about rotating across the lane or out to the Wing as an amazing help defender. Let him be near the basket. Also, he moves great FOR A BIG, and he seems comfortable with the ball in his hands on the perimeter, BUT he's really not a Wing. He's all about being near the basket for offensive boards. He sets picks for the ballhandlers and, as a result, gets alley oops and (more recently) pick and pops. Sorry to sound like a broken record, as this is pretty much my standard response on the matter.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

Davis moves well, but he doesn't have "small forward" movements. It's hard to explain. He's all arms and legs. Long strides and long reaches. I tend to think of perimeter players as moving a little more in powerful bursts. Am I making any sense?

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

To the person who mentioned Tyrus Thomas up there.....why wouldnt we amnesty him? since diop is expiring keep him and let tyrus go we cant pay him that much money to to produce at the level hes producing at....and especially if we get davis why pay a backup that much

[skratch]

Like everyone else said i dont think davis can be a SF, he doesnt have the moves to be one and he plays big. I been thinking if we draft Davis and put him at PF, that means bismack at C, but i personally i never saw bismack as a center either, so do you keep starting bismack at center until we draft or bring in a real center and let bismack come off the bench? I think we have a confusing roster

[superb1]

thanks, but looking at our impending roster next year. we would have a glut of PF in theory and Diop as the only true center (ouch again) and Tyrus has not proved he can slide to SF. Other than drafting Davis for obvious reason, (don't kill me people), if we got the no 1 pick could we parlay it into two lotto picks and get a center and another need.

what I am hinting at is if we got Davis and really no one can really play center, we would need to move someone (Biz- hoping he develops more physically over the summer, and TT are here for a while) that leaves Mully and DJW (who we can let walk if need be). We would have a logjam at PF. Unless we also pick up say Fab Melo if he falls to the 2nd round.

If we did not get the no 1 pick, it would not hurt as much as far as drafting a PF out of drafting for need.

I dunno, just my thoughts.

[superb1]

To the person who mentioned Tyrus Thomas up there.....why wouldnt we amnesty him? since diop is expiring keep him and let tyrus go we cant pay him that much money to to produce at the level hes producing at....and especially if we get davis why pay a backup that much

The easy thing would be to amnesty Tyrus, but I don't think it will be done just for roster line up issues. Still gotta pay him anyway

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

i dont think we can pass up on davis...even if we have alot of pfs.....cant pass up that kind of talent when you have such little talent....

[Mustachio]

We don't have a glut at power forward at all. Bismack Biyombo is a center. period. You draft Davis and he is your PF starting beside Bis. Mully can play either spot as the situation calls for.

[Chef]

we would have a glut of PF

we are by far the worst team in the league. we don't have a glut of anything other than shitty players

[MadBOBCATfanUK]

We don't have a glut at power forward at all. Bismack Biyombo is a center. period. You draft Davis and he is your PF starting beside Bis. Mully can play either spot as the situation calls for.
Biyombo looks like a centre on this team as he's the only player capable of guarding a centre, hopefully in the next couple of years he can improve his skill set and can split time at PF/C

[adam187]

I guess Silas sees it the same way.

Not sure if now is the best time to be using Silas' name as a sign of good authority :)

Anyways, the way I see it, we don't have a logjam at PF until we have more than one guy who can consistently produce at a high level. Right now we have ZERO.

Biyombo can battle Dwight to a standstill. That's good enough for me. If the team wants to bring in a dude with a bigger body size to provide some relief, go for it. We brought in Kwame for cheap last year, I'm sure we can find something similar through a cheap veteran contract, trade, or late draft pick.

[stun704]

Silas is a fucking dumbass. Biyombo is a center, hes only 19 so of course hes going to look out of place, Bynum looked lost as well when he was younger.. he is a center point blank period, to be a PF you need to have some type of offensive game

[superb1]

i understand but i was interpreting it as Silas sees it. I really did not understand why he says Biz is not really a C, thought he saw something I didn't. As far as glut, i meant bodies not talent. lol

[spectre]

Silas is a fucking dumbass. Biyombo is a center

All that needs to be said.

Funny how it took Silas this long to contemplate playing Smack & Mully together.

Not really though.

Either way I don't see Mully as a starter at any rate. Hopefully he can be a solid contributor at a reasonable rate going forward.

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

I see bismack as a center too...the guy plays everyone hard and the wingspan helps him alot if he is outsized....Davis at PF and Biz at C and we got our frontcourt of the future

[Veteran_Picksetter]

Some people here need to take into account what banging against bigger players in the lane will do to a person's body over 82 games.

For the sake of his longevity and potential, Bismack needs to learn how to guard the smaller bigs AND the larger bigs. In other words, split time between both the PF and C positions. Also, as he develops a post game with that little hook of his, it will be really effective against the 4's. Not as much against the larger bigs.

A few years back, because of a highly imbalanced roster, Gerald Wallace was the best 4-man for the Bobcats (even though he's a SF). We played him there, and he was effective, but it couldn't last. Bonnell wrote about how he was sprawled out on the training table after games, dealing with pain. This is the part that we don't see...

[Veteran_Picksetter]

You can second guess Silas's strategy and rotations all you want, but I think he ought to have a good idea of where his players fit into the league position-wise. Especially when he agrees with me ;) .........

[Dcarnys]

I wouldn't mind seeing Mullens going to PF. Move Biyombo to C full time and sign a okay backup center (kind of how Nazr and Theo Ratliff were in 2010) and switch them up. Avoid having too much wear and tear on Biyombo. I do like Mullens game better as a PF though.

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

Yeah we should get a veteran C to back up bismack so he doesnt have to take such a big load of minutes against these big centers......a guy who was actually good so he can teach bismack some things as well...wish we still had oakley he did wonders for kwame brown

[Mustachio]

Some people here need to take into account what banging against bigger players in the lane will do to a person's body over 82 games.

For the sake of his longevity and potential, Bismack needs to learn how to guard the smaller bigs AND the larger bigs. In other words, split time between both the PF and C positions. Also, as he develops a post game with that little hook of his, it will be really effective against the 4's. Not as much against the larger bigs.

A few years back, because of a highly imbalanced roster, Gerald Wallace was the best 4-man for the Bobcats (even though he's a SF). We played him there, and he was effective, but it couldn't last. Bonnell wrote about how he was sprawled out on the training table after games, dealing with pain. This is the part that we don't see...


Its 40 something games into a shortened season for a 19 year old kid. I don't think we need to go inventing problems for Biyombo. He is plenty big enough to play Center. There are really only two bigger banging threats we have to worry about in Bynum and Howard. And he handled Howard twice now with no problems. I agree with you that he doesn't need to be playing huge minutes every single night as that would wear down any person no matter the size. But I would much rather see him learn and develop his game at one position and just lock it down for us for once. He has proven he is big enough, and strong enough to play center. Lets let him do it.

[spectre]

You can second guess Silas's strategy and rotations all you want, but I think he ought to have a good idea of where his players fit into the league position-wise. Especially when he agrees with me ;) .........

You'd think so wouldn't ya...but just proximity does not a good evaluator make.

I'll give you Mully..his skillset along with his weakness in the post screams PF if he's to succeed in the league at all, but Smack is a different matter IMO.


And I've been saying Bismack is likely not a FULLTIME Center for the long haul. He's a good player for part time Center. But we should limit his minutes against guys 10-20 pounds heavier. He's manned up to Dwight (best C in the league) twice now and more than held his own. His measurements are C and his reach is insane. He's already got a solid base (meaning he's got the ass & legs to anchor down vs. the brutes) and he's one of the better big screeners in the game already.

Obviously we need some backup for him so he don't have to log 40 minutes...but the man is all Center.

What skillsets do you see that say PF?

[Katmandu]

[QUOTE=adam187;210032]Not sure if now is the best time to be using Silas' name as a sign of good authority :)[QUOTE]
I remember that it took an injury to David Wesley in training camp for Baron Davis to finally start at point guard for the Hornets when Silas coached them. Davis didn't start his first season. That was an awful lot of superior talent warming the bench.

I'm all for giving Mullins a shot at the 4 but I question whether he's quick enough to play defense against the more athletic 4's or tough enough to defend the bangers. I suspect that he's a defensive liability no matter where he plays.
I'm sorry to be cynical but I don't see a logjam at the 4, I just see a bunch of guys who shouldn't be starters - at least one of whom is getting paid like a starter.

[Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan]

Ben Wallace was also 6 foot 9 center.....Bismack will be fine....

[Chef]

this argument is relatively moot in my view. biz is a possible/probable starter, mullens is a for sure back up pf/c combo. if mullens is starting for you in the front court, you probably are not winning very much.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

You'd think so wouldn't ya...but just proximity does not a good evaluator make.

I'll give you Mully..his skillset along with his weakness in the post screams PF if he's to succeed in the league at all, but Smack is a different matter IMO.

He's manned up to Dwight (best C in the league) twice now and more than held his own. His measurements are C and his reach is insane. He's already got a solid base (meaning he's got the ass & legs to anchor down vs. the brutes) and he's one of the better big screeners in the game already.

Obviously we need some backup for him so he don't have to log 40 minutes...but the man is all Center.

What skillsets do you see that say PF?

Mustachio wrote:

"There are really only two bigger banging threats we have to worry about in Bynum and Howard."

Well, let's take a look. These weights are from espn. I could have gone by draftexpress, but I was concerned they would have only weights from their combine results when they were much younger.


A Jefferson 289 lbs
A Bynum 285 lbs
K Perkins 270 lbs
D Howard 265 lbs
D Jordan 265 lbs
M Gasol 265 lbs
C Kaman 265 lbs
R Hibbert 260 lbs
A Bogut 260 lbs
J O'Neal 255 lbs
T Duncan 255 lbs
E Okafor 255 lbs
O Asik 255 lbs
(to name a few)
B Biyombo 245 lbs

While Biyombo is young, we ought to explore his potential at both spots. I personally feel he has the athletic mobility to guard the smaller bigs if he is given the chance to experience/learn that. Of course, he is not a "stretch 4" who can shoot 3's, but not every 4-man HAS to be an outside shooter. Especially if you can pair him with a Center who has a mid range shot.

Look at it this way: He is young, he is physically gifted, he is an extremely hard worker. If he works super hard and develops offensive weapons, where does he have a better chance to be a near-All Star and physically overpower people?? I say PF. Let's not pigeonhole him into one spot if he has the potential to play both.

Edit: I checked some of the espn weights against some of the nba.com weights. They appear to be the same.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

I believe it was our saviour Mr. Cho who told Biyombo he should pattern himself after Serge Ibaka. Ibaka is a 4/5 guy, not strictly a 5. They have Kendrick Perkins for that. All 270 lbs of him.

[Toocool]

They have Kendrick Perkins for that. All 270 lbs of him.

Lovely 270 lbs just waiting to be dunked on.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

Lovely 270 lbs just waiting to be dunked on.

LOL. Hmmm....I can't think of any high profile dunks he's been posterized with this year. Oh wait.....

I guess there's something to be said for taking up space.

[spectre]

Smack is what, around 245 at a young 19? Kid ain't done growing yet.

But let me back up; I'm not saying Smack should never play PF. To me those 2 positions really are reasonably close to interchangeable (unlike PG/SG, or "wings"). Main thing is I don't want Smack getting the ball 20' from the rim and be expected to create offense. 10' and in please. On defense he's the most mobile of any big outside of Chandler I've seen on this squad...he just needs growing more vs. the finesse bigs like Jefferson.

What I disagree with is the line "Bismack is NOT A C".

[Brad]

I think Bismack is a 4 -- and I think they'd like to have a big anchor-type of guy at the 5 to completely defend the paint with Biz, but someone that also can cause matchup problems offensively.

I wonder what this team would have been like had Kwame Brown re-signed here, and how that would have affected Biyombo's growth, either positively or negatively.

I can see them picking Davis and Davis being that scoring and defending 5 that they want. I can also see them picking Drummond, who reminds me a lot of Kwame Brown, and grooming him alongside Biyombo -- not that I think that is the best plan, but I could see that happening.

Silas is right on Mullens. He's not tough enough, nor does he have the mindset to play 5 in the NBA. He is all finesse.

[Mustachio]

Mustachio wrote:

"There are really only two bigger banging threats we have to worry about in Bynum and Howard."

Well, let's take a look. These weights are from espn. I could have gone by draftexpress, but I was concerned they would have only weights from their combine results when they were much younger.


A Jefferson 289 lbs
A Bynum 285 lbs
K Perkins 270 lbs
D Howard 265 lbs
D Jordan 265 lbs
M Gasol 265 lbs
C Kaman 265 lbs
R Hibbert 260 lbs
A Bogut 260 lbs
J O'Neal 255 lbs
T Duncan 255 lbs
E Okafor 255 lbs
O Asik 255 lbs
(to name a few)
B Biyombo 245 lbs

While Biyombo is young, we ought to explore his potential at both spots. I personally feel he has the athletic mobility to guard the smaller bigs if he is given the chance to experience/learn that. Of course, he is not a "stretch 4" who can shoot 3's, but not every 4-man HAS to be an outside shooter. Especially if you can pair him with a Center who has a mid range shot.

Look at it this way: He is young, he is physically gifted, he is an extremely hard worker. If he works super hard and develops offensive weapons, where does he have a better chance to be a near-All Star and physically overpower people?? I say PF. Let's not pigeonhole him into one spot if he has the potential to play both.

Edit: I checked some of the espn weights against some of the nba.com weights. They appear to be the same.


fair enough on the weights of some of the other centers. But girth does not a banger make. (that sounds like something Tobias Funke would say) Of all those people you listed I would maybe add Jefferson, Jordan, Hibbert to the list of potential body threats to Biyombo. That brings the total up to 5. Okafor can have 10 pounds on Biyombo, but he is no banger. Kaman? Bogut? Gasol? These aren't dudes who throw their weight around they finesse it and Biyombo actually struggles guarding those guys much more so than the Howards and Bynums.

I would agree that he needs to continue working on his offensive weapons... but why does he have to play the "4" to do that? I think he's much further away from being an offensively dominant 4 than he is to being a defensively dominant 5. We definitely shouldn't pigeonhole him into a center role, but we also shouldn't try to make him a point guard. Let him find his way, but right now the only thing he's got is at the 5, and its pretty good so far.

besides, Davis is not a center in the NBA.

[spectre]

We definitely shouldn't pigeonhole him into a center role, but we also shouldn't try to make him a point guard. Let him find his way, but right now the only thing he's got is at the 5, and its pretty good so far.

But maybe he could be a "TRUE" point guard! :o

Pidgeonholing is dumb. Let Smack and the others find their way without stupid perceived perceptions.

[WAM9]

I have watched virtually every minute of Bismack's play this season and I see nothing what so ever to make me think he isn't a center.

I also agree that he is only 19 and not done growing. With that being said, I will take him just like he is and take my chances. He has not gotten the wrong end of a physical matchup this entire season. I see no reason at all to limit his minutes to reduce the "wear and tear" on his body. Dude is a finely tuned athlete who has enough heart and determination for the entire team. He hasn't backed down from anyone or any challenge either.

As far as Mullins goes, I see him being more of a PF but definitely in a reserve role, not a starter. His heigth and shooting ability can create some matchup problems and some decent instant offense off the bench. I hope, when this rebuild is over, Mullins ends up in our 9 -10 man rotation.

[dav7z]

[QUOTE=Brad;210086]I think Bismack is a 4 -- and I think they'd like to have a big anchor-type of guy at the 5 to completely defend the paint with Biz, but someone that also can cause matchup problems offensively.

I wonder what this team would have been like had Kwame Brown re-signed here, and how that would have affected Biyombo's growth, either positively or negatively.

I can see them picking Davis and Davis being that scoring and defending 5 that they want. I can also see them picking Drummond, who reminds me a lot of Kwame Brown, and grooming him alongside Biyombo -- not that I think that is the best plan, but I could see that happening





First we scored hard wood seats next to the players last week . SMACK is a frigging beast . To see him next to Mully , TT, White , Smack stands compleatly even with Mully. Kid looks as if he has no body fat at all . If i had to guess his weight right now at this part of the season . He has to be at least 250 or more. Some one else was saying start Davis defending the five. SMACK has a longer standing reach. The kid should be at least 255,260 starting next season . Why can't we just play Davis at the 4 and SMACK at the five. They will be very inexperianced but should keep us solid at those two positions for years to come . BTW Paul was standing right in frunt of me and all he could say was come on guys . He called no plays , no defence no nothing . Even his boy was drawing up plays during time outs . PAUL IS JUST TRYING TO GET THROUGH THE SEASON..


Another thing Kemba and DJ . All the players respect KEMBA much more . You could tell how the players responded to KEMBA. DJ is quite and acts as if hes playing by his self . He has very little interaction with the other players . Wife enen said he don't even look like he wants to be hear.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

fair enough on the weights of some of the other centers. But girth does not a banger make. (that sounds like something Tobias Funke would say) Of all those people you listed I would maybe add Jefferson, Jordan, Hibbert to the list of potential body threats to Biyombo. That brings the total up to 5. Okafor can have 10 pounds on Biyombo, but he is no banger. Kaman? Bogut? Gasol? These aren't dudes who throw their weight around they finesse it and Biyombo actually struggles guarding those guys much more so than the Howards and Bynums.

I would agree that he needs to continue working on his offensive weapons... but why does he have to play the "4" to do that? I think he's much further away from being an offensively dominant 4 than he is to being a defensively dominant 5. We definitely shouldn't pigeonhole him into a center role, but we also shouldn't try to make him a point guard. Let him find his way, but right now the only thing he's got is at the 5, and its pretty good so far.

besides, Davis is not a center in the NBA.

My list of centers and their weights was not even remotely comprehensive. There are probably plenty more examples of heavier centers that Bismack would have to face.

Bismack can work hard and be effective on both sides of the ball. He can still block shots and rebound from the 4 position. And going up against 4's, he has a far better chance of overpowering people as a (hopefully ever improving) offensive player. It could be the best of both worlds.

And I agree that Davis is not a Center. You'll certainly never see me say that. The ideal scenario would be a 3-man big rotation of Davis, 'Smack as the 4/5, and a more traditional, large Center. That would be a great situation for 'Smack.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

'Smack already has the muscle he needs for basketball. Any more and he would be too musclebound, in my humble opinion. If his body matures and his shoulders broaden, and through that natural growth he adds 10 pounds through the years, then I'll be a little more comfortable with when being a fulltime Center at THAT point.

Honestly, I think he's a perfect guy to split time equally between guarding smaller bigs and larger bigs. I think that is best use for him. A versatile defensive piece.

I don't know where people get the idea of Anthony Davis being a 5. Maybe only in a few limited situations.

I do think Davis will add more weight than Bismack will over the next 3 years because:

A. Bismack ALREADY has his basketball-level muscle.
B. Davis appears to have a wider upper body bone structure, which should mean good weight gains once he develops any semblence of chest muscles and lat muscles....

If we get these two guys and add a big Center with some offensive skills, we could be in business!

[dav7z]

'Smack already has the muscle he needs for basketball. Any more and he would be too musclebound, in my humble opinion. If his body matures and his shoulders broaden, and through that natural growth he adds 10 pounds through the years, then I'll be a little more comfortable with when being a fulltime Center at THAT point.

Honestly, I think he's a perfect guy to split time equally between guarding smaller bigs and larger bigs. I think that is best use for him. A versatile defensive piece.

I don't know where people get the idea of Anthony Davis being a 5. Maybe only in a few limited situations.

I do think Davis will add more weight than Bismack will over the next 3 years because:

A. Bismack ALREADY has his basketball-level muscle.
B. Davis appears to have a wider upper body bone structure, which should mean good weight gains once he develops any semblence of chest muscles and lat muscles....

If we get these two guys and add a big Center with some offensive skills, we could be in business!

I have to disagree after seeing him up close he could add 15 pounds of mussle easy. I havn't ever seen Davis up close but on TV he looks like he has just a little body fat . He is still trying to catch up with his groth spurt . So for him converting the little fat he has should be easy . But hes just at 220 but i don't know if he could add 40 more pounds of mussle tone. Seams like SMACK is muck closer to me.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

I have to disagree after seeing him up close he could add 15 pounds of mussle easy. I havn't ever seen Davis up close but on TV he looks like he has just a little body fat . He is still trying to catch up with his groth spurt . So for him converting the little fat he has should be easy . But hes just at 220 but i don't know if he could add 40 more pounds of mussle tone. Seams like SMACK is muck closer to me.

I don't know who thinks Davis could ever add 40 lbs. I'm thinking more like 10-20, topping out at 230-235 lbs. A good size for a mobile 4.

And I'm not sure I follow: No one converts fat to muscle. Do you mean they draw nutrients from fat to help build muscle???

Again, 'Smack already has his muscle. He's ALL muscle. I don't know what extra work in the weight room can do for him at this point. He just needs to maintain because he already has his perfect version of a basketball body. Any of his weight gain should come from natural physical maturation from here onward.

Davis, on the other hand, can physically mature AND add a lot more muscle through continued weight training. Unless he's one of those rare "hard gainers" like Rip Hamilton.

If you read a lot of draftexpress, they are always talking about the broad shouldered guys as having the right frame to add more weight. Davis fits that mold.