Dream Mock v2.0

[DashGlobal]

Trade with Cleveland.

We need to figure out a way to get a pick in the 18 - 22 range. I dont know how, ideally I would like to move DJ or a future pick. Maybe someone can come up with a scenario to make this happen.

4th - TRob

Would make for a really nice PF if he improves his jumper and master 1-2 post moves.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPDHhnNDEBw&feature=fvwrel

18 - 22nd - White / Harkless / Miller

I really like all these SF's.

24th - Tyshawn Taylor

Good size with nice potential. Would make for a good backup at worst imo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja4A92fCohI

31st - John Jenkins

Provides deadly outside shooting and scoring


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWmM4fD7P9g&feature=related


Would absolutly KILL this draft!

[dnbman]

I know it's a "dream," but coming up with two picks in that mid-late first round will prove pretty difficult. Given that we can't trade DJ, what's a reasonable way to get at least one of those picks and who would you prefer?

[DashGlobal]

I know it's a "dream," but coming up with two picks in that mid-late first round will prove pretty difficult. Given that we can't trade DJ, what's a reasonable way to get at least one of those picks and who would you prefer?

Fug it, id throw in Portlands pick next year if we couldnt deal any of our players.

Who would I prefer? Thats a real tough question as I like White, Harkless, and Miller A LOT.

White is a nightmare matchup at SF. He would abuse SF's in the paint, and his passing and ball handling ability are INSANE for someone his size. Almost like a poor mans Lebron.

Harkless is a very athletic versitle player. If he improves his shot I could see him becoming a All Star.

Miller has a TON of upside as well. I could see him becoming a poor mans Durant.

Something I want to add, I dont know why people view Jenkins as just a shooter. This dude is a scorer! Lead the SEC in scoring the past 2 years. Look at his highlights, dude drives and finishes in the paint pretty well, and has a nice cross over and step back.

I need to stop teasing myself with such an orgasmic draft!

[ohara831]

Dash, those 4 players would significantly improve the team. Not sure we can get all the picks you want, but if so, those 4 players would be an excellent draft.

[superb1]

Dash, those 4 players would significantly improve the team. Not sure we can get all the picks you want, but if so, those 4 players would be an excellent draft.

if we were to score this, would it actually our 4 player draft > AD? I think so

[Frosty06306]

That would be 4 quality assets who are all practically first rounders, in order to obtain the pick in the 18-22 region would y'all be willing to deal our 2014 first rounder? If so, would a team in there bite on that? Also when do we expect to lose the pick we owe to the Bulls?

[DashGlobal]

if we were to score this, would it actually our 4 player draft > AD? I think so

Id take those 4 players over AD in a heartbeat.


That would be 4 quality assets who are all practically first rounders, in order to obtain the pick in the 18-22 region would y'all be willing to deal our 2014 first rounder? If so, would a team in there bite on that? Also when do we expect to lose the pick we owe to the Bulls?

I would because im REALLY high on White, Harkless, and Miller. This is a deep draft with good - solid players all in the first round.

[DashGlobal]

Thinking about, no way TRob falls to number 4. Washington will scoop him up at 3 imo.

Here is my new dream mock / scenario.

Trade with Cavs for 4th and 24th.

Trade DJ and Portlands 13' pick to Phoenix for the 13th pick.

Trade Hendo to Boston for 21st pick.

Charlotte's 2012 Draft

4th - Bradley Beal

13th - Moe Harkless

21st - Quincy Miller

24th - John Jenkins

31st - Tyshawn Taylor

[spectre]

That would be 4 quality assets who are all practically first rounders, in order to obtain the pick in the 18-22 region would y'all be willing to deal our 2014 first rounder? If so, would a team in there bite on that? Also when do we expect to lose the pick we owe to the Bulls?

There are some minor exceptions, but as long as we owe that pick to the Bulls we can't trade another.


2013 first round draft pick to Chicago
Charlotte's own 2013 1st round draft pick to Chicago (top-12 protected in the 2013 Draft, top-10 protected in 2014, top-8 protected in 2015 and unprotected in the 2016 Draft.) [Charlotte - Chicago, 2/18/2010]

I'm guessing 2015 or 2016.


Also as stated before DJ can't be traded right now either.

[SJackson1]

as long as we get TRob i don't care what we do

[DashGlobal]

as long as we get TRob i don't care what we do

Beal / Harkless / Miller / Jenkins / Taylor is a 1000 times better haul than TRob

[SJackson1]

Beal / Harkless / Miller / Jenkins / Taylor is a 1000 times better haul than TRob

i think we should keep the No 2 pick becasue we have a ahcne to get a star player. Our scouts need to work hard during the workouts and see who fits the bill for the Bobcats

[DashGlobal]

i think we should keep the No 2 pick becasue we have a ahcne to get a star player. Our scouts need to work hard during the workouts and see who fits the bill for the Bobcats

Naw, there is a HUGE drop off after Davis and after that you have comparable talent all through the 1st round up until about 21st pick.

When a guy like Quincy Miller who many think can be a poor mans Durant is projected all the way to the end of the first that tells you how deep the draft is.

Had Harkless and Miller went back to school they would have been EASILY lottery picks next year.

[SJackson1]

Naw, there is a HUGE drop off after Davis and after that you have comparable talent all through the 1st round up until about 21st pick.

When a guy like Quincy Miller who many think can be a poor mans Durant is projected all the way to the end of the first that tells you how deep the draft is.

Had Harkless and Miller went back to school they would have been EASILY lottery picks next year.

you don't know that niether does anybody else thats what makes the Draft so intersting. There has been many average/poor players drafted in the top 5 over a long period of time. You never know how good someone really is untill they play in the NBA

[DashGlobal]

you don't know that niether does anybody else thats what makes the Draft so intersting. There has been many average/poor players drafted in the top 5 over a long period of time. You never know how good someone really is untill they play in the NBA

Exactly. So why put all your eggs in one basket (TRob) when you can get 2-3 other players with just as much potential and talent?

Give me 3 good players with great potential over 1 all day!

[SJackson1]

Exactly. So why put all your eggs in one basket (TRob) when you can get 2-3 other players with just as much potential and talent?

Give me 3 good players with great potential over 1 all day!

i see your point but i think TRob has the most potential out of those players and he's a player we need the most. Its a shame we didn't get the 1st pick because all these threads weve created would be non existent lol

[dnbman]

Spectre,
Do you know if we can tender the pick to Chicago? For instance, if we had the 12th pick next year and didn't like a prospect, could we make Chicago take it?

[ohara831]

Spectre,
Do you know if we can tender the pick to Chicago? For instance, if we had the 12th pick next year and didn't like a prospect, could we make Chicago take it?

We could always trade them for it. For instance, it they have next year's #22, we could trade them #12 for #22 and the return of our "future" pick from the TT trade. Figure that would be the way to do it. Dont think we can forfeit the pick and make them take it.

[dnbman]

Exactly. So why put all your eggs in one basket (TRob) when you can get 2-3 other players with just as much potential and talent?

Give me 3 good players with great potential over 1 all day!

That's way too simplified to look at it. One reason you might put all of your eggs in one basket is that the guy will be a lot better than the other three and there's only so many minutes to give guys on the court. (I used to kill people in fantasy basketball for this reason until it became a foundational strategy!)

You've got to analyze the talent more than just giving them a rating and playing the odds.

[SJackson1]

That's way too simplified to look at it. One reason you might put all of your eggs in one basket is that the guy will be a lot better than the other three and there's only so many minutes to give guys on the court. (I used to kill people in fantasy basketball for this reason until it became a foundational strategy!)

You've got to analyze the talent more than just giving them a rating and playing the odds.

yes its important to assess all the draft candidates to a high standard so you can maybe find a star player.

[DashGlobal]

That's way too simplified to look at it. One reason you might put all of your eggs in one basket is that the guy will be a lot better than the other three and there's only so many minutes to give guys on the court. (I used to kill people in fantasy basketball for this reason until it became a foundational strategy!)

You've got to analyze the talent more than just giving them a rating and playing the odds.

Everyone has already analyzed the talent. You have a whole season of film and stats on these guys. Isnt like they are coming from high school. The players are what they are.

You are rolling the dice if you think you can pick out who will have the better career out of the first 10 or so picks. Hell there is a chance players like Harkless and Miller that are projected mid - late 1st could have a better career than guys projected in the top 5.

Like I said. Give me 3-4 talented players with upside over one any day of the week.

[spectre]

Spectre,
Do you know if we can tender the pick to Chicago? For instance, if we had the 12th pick next year and didn't like a prospect, could we make Chicago take it?

Putting it your way (key word being "make") I would say no. Pretty sure both parties would have to agree to any revision in the original trade.

I remembered us receiving the Cavs pick during our 1st year and if I'm not mistaken the next Cleveland removed protection during that season...ending up as May. Under that scenario I don't know if we had a choice in that or not. My guess would be that we agreed to it at the time, but I don't know for sure.

[dnbman]

Like I said. Give me 3-4 talented players with upside over one any day of the week.

I'm glad you're not running our draft room.

A lot of analysis has occurred with these players, no doubt. However, the next couple of weeks is when they go over these guys in details and often have them work out against each other. While there can be deceptions in those details, the go a long way to completing the picture of what a player is all about.

[DashGlobal]

I'm glad you're not running our draft room.

A lot of analysis has occurred with these players, no doubt. However, the next couple of weeks is when they go over these guys in details and often have them work out against each other. While there can be deceptions in those details, the go a long way to completing the picture of what a player is all about.

People are putting to much stock into these "workouts".

MKG will not be showing up with a completely new jumpshot or a very tight handle.

Beal isnt gonna show up to the workout and magically grown 2-3 inches and be 6'6.

Drummond is still gonna be a raw physical freak.

[dnbman]

People are putting to much stock into these "workouts".

MKG will not be showing up with a completely new jumpshot or a very tight handle.

Beal isnt gonna show up to the workout and magically grown 2-3 inches and be 6'6.

Drummond is still gonna be a raw physical freak.

The workouts are the chance for teams to look beyond how coaches used the players. They can get a much more microscopic look at what players are capable of.

Workouts aren't more important than a college career's worth of play, but they can give a much sharper picture, which is why NBA teams pay big money to keep scouting and working out players rather than just collect game tapes.

[SWedd523]

People are putting to much stock into these "workouts".

MKG will not be showing up with a completely new jumpshot or a very tight handle.

Beal isnt gonna show up to the workout and magically grown 2-3 inches and be 6'6.

Drummond is still gonna be a raw physical freak.

They also do interviews to gauge personality, intelligence, and commitment, do more in depth statistical research, and see how they play with and against certain players. There's an entire process these guys go through

It's not just "Hey guys come in and shoot around and do some sprints"

[DashGlobal]

They also do interviews to gauge personality, intelligence, and commitment, do more in depth statistical research, and see how they play with and against certain players. There's an entire process these guys go through

It's not just "Hey guys come in and shoot around and do some sprints"

What players do in work out drills or one on one is not indicative of that they can / will do in a live game.

Im all for the interviews to determine personality ect but if you wanna see what a player can do (in games) you need to go and watch some film. Like I said, there is a whole season worth of games and stats to analyze.

[SWedd523]

And like I said, you seem to think that the only thing happening in those workouts is the guys rolling the balls out and letting them shoot around. It's more intensive than what you actually see.

[dnbman]

What players do in work out drills or one on one is not indicative of that they can / will do in a live game.

Im all for the interviews to determine personality ect but if you wanna see what a player can do (in games) you need to go and watch some film. Like I said, there is a whole season worth of games and stats to analyze.

Which explains why Adam Morrison and Shane Battier are two of the best players of their generation.

[DashGlobal]

Which explains why Adam Morrison and Shane Battier are two of the best players of their generation.

Anyone that watched Morrison in college could see he was nonathletic and had a shaky handle.

You must have thought I was only referring to wins & points I presume.... Far from it.

[cltblkhscoach]

What the guys are saying is very true. Having coached for 12 years, you can scout players and teams and easily find strengths, weakness, tendencies, etc. But the most valuable part of a scouting report, if I can find it out, is a team's or player's personality. Do they handle adversity well? Are they motivated to make plays on their own? Do they have the drive to comeback when they are down, or do they coast when they have a lead?

These guys are going to be much more than players on a basketball court, especially for us. We need stars in every sense of the word - if for example, Beal is a great player on the court but has an asshole personality, I'm not going to take him. That's why Rashad McCants is out of the league - he can ball his ass off, but his attitude is absolutely terrible.

[WAM9]

^^^^^^ This!

[DashGlobal]

What the guys are saying is very true. Having coached for 12 years, you can scout players and teams and easily find strengths, weakness, tendencies, etc. But the most valuable part of a scouting report, if I can find it out, is a team's or player's personality. Do they handle adversity well? Are they motivated to make plays on their own? Do they have the drive to comeback when they are down, or do they coast when they have a lead?

These guys are going to be much more than players on a basketball court, especially for us. We need stars in every sense of the word - if for example, Beal is a great player on the court but has an asshole personality, I'm not going to take him. That's why Rashad McCants is out of the league - he can ball his ass off, but his attitude is absolutely terrible.

At the same token if a guy doesnt have the skills, size, and abilities to be a star I could care less how their personality is.

Personality is secondary to me. Just look at Denise Rodman. Dude was a nutcase but was a beast on the court.

[WAM9]

At the same token if a guy doesnt have the skills, size, and abilities to be a star I could care less how their personality is.

Personality is secondary to me. Just look at Denise Rodman. Dude was a nutcase but was a beast on the court.



I'm quite sure he doesn't mean their personality as a person as much as he means their personality as a player. Big difference.

[DashGlobal]

I'm quite sure he doesn't mean their personality as a person as much as he means their personality as a player. Big difference.

I am talking about that as well.

All that is secondary to me.

Gotta have the skills, size, abilities, and athleticism to be a star in the league first and foremost.

[spectre]

I'm trying to think of some alpha stars that weren't dominant "ME" personalities. Help me out here?

[dnbman]

I am talking about that as well.

All that is secondary to me.

Gotta have the skills, size, abilities, and athleticism to be a star in the league first and foremost.

Most guys in the draft will have skills, size, abilities, and athleticism that could make them successful, which is why every prospect looks like he could be a player. However, the ones that turn into dominant NBA players are the ones with intangibles that make them superior to everyone else. That's what you're looking for at the top of the draft, not just a physical specimen and a tool kit. The tangible difference in most of these guys is minimal. The subtle shades are what make a guy an NBA all-star versus a globe trotting journeyman.

[DashGlobal]

Most guys in the draft will have skills, size, abilities, and athleticism that could make them successful, which is why every prospect looks like he could be a player. However, the ones that turn into dominant NBA players are the ones with intangibles that make them superior to everyone else. That's what you're looking for at the top of the draft, not just a physical specimen and a tool kit. The tangible difference in most of these guys is minimal. The subtle shades are what make a guy an NBA all-star versus a globe trotting journeyman.

Outside of Davis, it is like navigating a landmine, as every player is lacking in some regard.

Generally speaking id be fine with some of the con's if it was anything other than a top 1-3 pick.

The idea of drafting a player like MKG with the number 2 overall pick is terrifying due to his horrendous shooting, average handle and poultry college stats.

The idea of drafting a player like TRob with the number 2 overall pick is terrifying due to his size and lack of refined post moves.

The idea of drafting a player like Beal with the number 2 overall pick is terrifying due to his size and not living up to expectations in college (average shooting % for someone being compared to Ray Allen)

The idea of drafting a player like Drummond with the number 2 overall pick is terrifying due to absolute God awful freshman season in college where he was a complete flop. Drafting 100% on potential.

Id almost prefer we had a pick in the 6-10 range. Look at Lillard, good size, great jumper, good handle, great scorer.

I would do everything in my power to unload the number 2 pick on another team for an additional 1st round pick(s)

[WAM9]

I am talking about that as well.

All that is secondary to me.

Gotta have the skills, size, abilities, and athleticism to be a star in the league first and foremost.

If they didn't have the size, abilities, and athleticism already, they wouldn't be considered for the #2 pick in the draft.

What sets them apart for me is that "x factor" for lack of a better term. That is what separates them. Leadership qualities. Intangibles. The total package.

[DashGlobal]

If they didn't have the size, abilities, and athleticism already, they wouldn't be considered for the #2 pick in the draft.

What sets them apart for me is that "x factor" for lack of a better term. That is what separates them. Leadership qualities. Intangibles. The total package.

You are assuming people desire the same skills, size, abilities, and athleticism.

Some GM's might think Beals handle is good for a SG and some do not.

Some people might think TRob being 6'9 is good size for the PF position and some do not.

MKG cant shoot to save his life, so as we can see his doesnt have that "skill" and is projected as a number 2 pick.

[SJackson1]

every player in the draft isn't perfect (maybe Davis is exception) but we need to select a player which will benefit us in the long run.

[westbrook08]

ok, just to touch on a few points.Which star players aren't me first players? How about kevin durant,tim duncan,paul pierce,steve nash,paul gasol,dirk nowitski or derrick rose? All those guys have been totally team oriented since they came in the league.And i do believe character matters.I like what okc has done the last few years and they seem to have high character players overall and i think we should strive for that too.And i think being dedicated to the game and being a hard worker is part of that.That's why i've completely backed off of any support for drummond.Cause i don't think he works hard or loves the game.As far as acquiring extra picks goes, i think with the new cba and teams being so cash strapped that we could definitely get extra picks if we're aggressive.Magette and diop have big enough expiring deals that either one could possibly be turned into another 1st.And you know there's gonna be teams in the 20's who will sell a pick straight up for 3 or 4 million.We could easily get more picks in the first round if we're aggressive.Kevin pritchard put on a clinic on how to do it portland and then got made the scapegoat because players got hurt.But never the less,this is the best draft in years,so if cho really is that good we'll find out.I don't think we should give up the 2 this year or our chance @ noel or muhammed next year.But he needs to get creative and make something happen,cause next year is gonna be weak and we need to show progress in the next few years if we're gonna recruit any good free agents.And as far as dream mock goes: i would say robinson @2 and melo if he falls to 31.If we picked up any extra picks in the 1st round and could get lillard or miller,i would be on top of the world!

[WAM9]

You are assuming people desire the same skills, size, abilities, and athleticism.

Some GM's might think Beals handle is good for a SG and some do not.

Some people might think TRob being 6'9 is good size for the PF position and some do not.

MKG cant shoot to save his life, so as we can see his doesnt have that "skill" and is projected as a number 2 pick.

You are missing the point.

The player personality and intangibles have EVERYTHING to do with the type of player and their potential ceiling.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[cltblkhscoach]

Dash I see your point with Rodman, but look at the support around him that he had. Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Phil Jackson. I mean arguably the greatest player, coach, and wingman of all time, lol. It's almost like the New England Patriots of today - the organization is strong enough to handle almost anyone. If that was our setup, then hell yeah I'm all for 'court only' analysis. But, we are so far from that type of organization it's not even worth considering the thought.

[DashGlobal]

You are missing the point.

The player personality and intangibles have EVERYTHING to do with the type of player and their potential ceiling.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Personalities and intangibles are important as well. A player can have all the intangibles in the world, but that alone will not make him great. He has to have the skills first and foremost.

For example, you strip away Kobe's tight handle and shot-making / creating ability and he is not the same player. Regardless of any great personality traits or intangibles he might posses.

[WAM9]

Personalities and intangibles are important as well. A player can have all the intangibles in the world, but that alone will not make him great. He has to have the skills first and foremost.

For example, you strip away Kobe's tight handle and shot-making / creating ability and he is not the same player. Regardless of any great personality traits or intangibles he might posses.

I could just as easily respond that if you stripped Kobe's killer, alpha-dog mentality from him, his tight handle and shot making ability would make him a great role player.

You have to consider ALL factors in a player.

Let me try to explain like this...

I owned my own businesses for years and have been in a position to hire and fire staffs since 1996. During this time, I have hired more employees that I can count. During the interview process, you make sure they have the skills that are needed for the job. That is what gets you an interview in the first place. What gets you a 2nd interview is possessing the ability to shine in the 1st interview process and show that you would not only be able to perform the job, but you would be a unique asset to the company (getting along with others, other skills, long term plans, personality, etc). What eventually gets you the job is showing that you are the total package. Not only can you do the job you are being hired for but have long term potential in other areas as well.

Long story short, if you stop with just looking at the skills (be it basketball or business) you are making rookie mistakes in the hiring process.

[DashGlobal]

I could just as easily respond that if you stripped Kobe's killer, alpha-dog mentality from him, his tight handle and shot making ability would make him a great role player.

The thing you seem to be missing is you MUST posses a great basketball skill(s) to be a great all star / franchise player. One can be a great player without the intangibles you mentioned, but its impossible to be a great player without the skills and physical attributes. Hence why I said that should come first and foremost when evaluating a player. Then you factoring in personality and intangibles.

For instance, me personally I wouldnt even consider drafting a wing player in the top 5 that couldnt shoot the basketball. With the only exception being if they were absolutely impossible to keep from attacking the basket and finishing in traffic.

Like you said, ALL factors must be taken into account. We seem to disagree on the importance and weight of those factors.

[SJackson1]

the draft combine and workouts have begun so we sill find out more about the players were interested in over the next few days.