Sloan, Robinson, and Marshall: The Jazz Model

[dnbman]

I posted in another thread about the idea of hiring Sloan and then drafting Thomas Robinson, a lean, athletic POWER forward, and possibly Kendal Marshall, seemingly one of the purest point guards to come in the league in some time.

Granted, Marshall and Robinson aren't Stockton and Malone, two all-time greats. However, you've got a nice point guard with incredible vision paired with a guy who should be great off pick and roll and seems to believe he can develop a nice mid-range jumper. Then you've got a guy like Hendo who makes a living off off of screens and curls. Find a couple of guys who can hit from outside with Biyombo getting the garbage underneath, and you've got a pretty nice basketball club for several years.

Granted, the Jazz never won a title and Robinson and Marshall likely won't be as good as Malone and Stockton. But adding some other nice pieces around them might make them a very tough, entertaining team to watch that with a couple of other pieces could be right up there with the best in the NBA.

One clear downside to this: if we weren't extremely successful with it, we'd always look like a knock-off organization of a team most famous for losing to Jordan.

[QC Thundercats]

Good post, I was thinking exactly about this when I was making the Malone to Robinson comparison. Who better than Sloan to teach TRob how to run the pick and roll like Malone and become a dominant beast?

As for the PG situation, I do think Marshall will be a very good player, somewhere between Andre Miller and Jason Kidd, but I don't think its necessary to get him. Last year, the coaches said that they were in the process of teaching Kemba how to run the pick and roll properly. Watching how Sloan and John Stockton were able to turn Deron Williams into a monster of the p&r, I think such a combo would make our guys into an unguardable tandem. Kemba can get a mid-range shot off or drive to the basket at will, its just a matter of teaching him how to read the defenses and improving his shooting consistency that could make him deadly with this play.

Mullens is another person who I think could be a force as well, with his abilities to pick and pop, or roll hard to the hoop for an alley-oop. The last teaching coach we had did wonders for our team, to get another teacher without all the diva tendencies would accomplish the same without having to stress out about what nonsense the coach is going to say or do next.

[fallen xxi]

I'd give kemba for Kendall Marshall if we have the opportunity.

[polarcat]

I'd give kemba for Kendall Marshall if we have the opportunity.

not me. Lillard, maybe, but not for Marshall. Kemba has just as much potential as Marshall, but is a different type of PG. In this NBA, I think a Walker > a Marshall. Kemba was a rookie and didn't blow anyone away as being a lock for our future starting PG, but I think that if given a supporting cast, a coaching staff that mentors and has schemes and plays run will allow Walker to thrive. Marshall will be good in the NBA, but as a traditional assist-first floor general, whereas Walker is more of a scorer and attacker.

[fallen xxi]

not me. Lillard, maybe, but not for Marshall. Kemba has just as much potential as Marshall, but is a different type of PG. In this NBA, I think a Walker > a Marshall. Kemba was a rookie and didn't blow anyone away as being a lock for our future starting PG, but I think that if given a supporting cast, a coaching staff that mentors and has schemes and plays run will allow Walker to thrive. Marshall will be good in the NBA, but as a traditional assist-first floor general, whereas Walker is more of a scorer and attacker.

Simply put, I'm a guy that wants a Stockton, not a Westbrook. It's a difference of basketball philosophy.

[westbrook08]

As long as we draft robinson i'd be happy with bringing in marshall or lillard.I think they can both be all stars.And whether or not kemba realizes his potential or not the fact remains that we still need a point guard with some size on this team and there are plenty of playoff squads who've had 2 good point guards on their roster.As far as the jazz model, I think the biggest piece of the equation is getting a forward like robinson.I don't think it has to be a particular type of point guard.They just have to have talented.Jerry sloan coached up stockon and williams, so i think he's just a good teacher all around.Oh' and just to touch on your point about kemba.I just listened to the announcers on the finals talking the whole game about how westbrook was not a true point guard coming in the league and how he by far led the nba in turnovers his first season.But they said he listened and payed attention to his teammates.And that even though he might not work as well in certain other coaches systems as well as he does in okc, the fact that they've kept their young players together and that he who knows where those particular guys want the ball,makes him effective.So just be a little more patient.No one knows what kemba walker's finish product will look like yet.

[ZackTB23]

I'd rather keep Kemba. He's like a poor mans Rondo, but better shooting.

[dnbman]

I want to keep Kemba, as I think he can be a valuable piece. With Sloan and our abundance of young players, I like the idea of adding a high quality traditional passing point guard, as I think that type player will help the other guys learn their spots and cuts better, as they'll likely be rewarded with the pass.

What Westbrook says about Kemba is true, and I think he can develop into a nice player. I'm just thinking for our situation it would be nice to have that alternative look in Marshall who can effectively run a more traditional offense. With the impending loss of DJ and no other pg on the roster, adding another point guard, especially one with a completely different skill set, would be a wise move anyway. I can see Marshall getting the starting job but Kemba playing tons of minutes off the bench in a super sub role, playing both guard positions. They'd both be important pieces.

[westbrook08]

I think we definitely have room for another point guard on this team.We need a guy with some size @ that position whether he starts or comes of the bench.And how the hell is kemba a poor man's rondo? Ronda has been one of the best pure passers in the nba in a long time.And has been since he was a rookie.Kemba's still learning how to run a pick and roll.i'm not down on kemba's potential,but they are in no way similar.People wanna say rondo can't shoot,but that's bullshit.His shooting over the last 3 years has gotten very good.Hell, he dropped 44 the other night.He just doesn't look to do that all the time.If boston truly does break that team up this offseason, i'll guarantee you he averages @ least 20 a game next year!

[polarcat]

fwiw, if Kemba had players like Allen, KG, Perkins, and a coach like Rivers, I bet Walker's rookie year and trajectory would be a lot higher. I don't agree with the comparison of the two players though, but I do think Rondo is going to look a lot different on a team that lacks a supporting cast. He has a lot of self-destruct issues inside and think his weaknesses have been covered up in Boston by being the 3rd option.

[westbrook08]

Of course you can make the argument that any player would do better with a solid supporting cast.But rondo didn't just do good, he led a team to a championship as a rookie, and looked in total control doing it.Kemba is nowhere on the radar of being that kind of floor general right now.

[ZackTB23]

That's why I said poor man's rondo.

[Whiz Kid]

No way Kemba is a poor man's Rondo.

I'd agree more if a poor man's Westbrook was said.

[westbrook08]

He's not even a homeless man's version of rondo! Rondo is a straight up floor general.Kemba @ this point is a guy who lacks court vision, is still learning the pick and roll, turns the ball over constantly, and is a chucker who only sees the floor because he is a superior athlete who was drafted high and has potential.There is not a worse comparison you could make.there is no aspect of kemba's game that is even remotely similar to rondo's.I don't know how to make it any clearer.You are just way off base on this one.The only thing they have in common is that they are similar in height,they're both fast,and they both play point guard.That's it! The only thing kemba walker is so far, is a poor man's version of what he was @ connecticut.Once he learns, it might be different.Who knows.

[spectre]

Averaging 1.8 TOs a game with a team whose only plan was to play hard doesn't sound that bad to me?

[Pepperz]

He's not even a homeless man's version of rondo! Rondo is a straight up floor general.Kemba @ this point is a guy who lacks court vision, is still learning the pick and roll, turns the ball over constantly, and is a chucker who only sees the floor because he is a superior athlete who was drafted high and has potential.There is not a worse comparison you could make.there is no aspect of kemba's game that is even remotely similar to rondo's.I don't know how to make it any clearer.You are just way off base on this one.The only thing they have in common is that they are similar in height,they're both fast,and they both play point guard.That's it! The only thing kemba walker is so far, is a poor man's version of what he was @ connecticut.Once he learns, it might be different.Who knows.

They are both black. They have more in common than you think. :)

[westbrook08]

First of all,he didn't play as many minutes a game as augustine, and it's hard to turn the ball over when your a black hole on offense! If anyone thinks kemba and rajon are in any way similar, then you don't know shit about basketball.

[spectre]

First of all,he didn't play as many minutes a game as augustine, and it's hard to turn the ball over when your a black hole on offense! If anyone thinks kemba and rajon are in any way similar, then you don't know shit about basketball.

Per 36 DJ averaged 2.8 TOV per game...TOV% was 16.9
Per 36 Kemba averaged 2.4 TOV per game...TOV% was 12.1

The "black hole" also had a better AST% than DJ's first 2 seasons and came close to equaling DJ's 3rd year (30.2 vs 31.1).

[westbrook08]

He's still not a flloor general type point guard.You can't compare him @ all to rondo.Period!

[dnbman]

This thread is dead to me.

[spectre]

He's still not a flloor general type point guard.You can't compare him @ all to rondo.Period!

I never said he was...just keeping your "facts" straight for you.