Analyzing Bobcats Front Office (FO)

[Veteran_Picksetter]

I watched Higgins and Cho in the press conference last night. I watched Dunlap in the interview on espn's draft program.

They kept talking about how MKG fits positional need. They kept talking about how he fits the system they want to implement. They kept talking about his intangibles, the fact he's a winner, leader, etc. (I don't recall if those were the exact words. But that was the gist.)

Does anyone here think that the Bobcats got a little too caught up in making the second pick in the draft "fit" with the worst team in the nba??

Does anyone here think that the quality of our draft selection should have been more important than whatever "system" our current, unproven coach is trying to implement? Dunlap could be gone in a year for all we know. There's not yet much proof he can handle nba egos as a head coach.

MKG will be way better than DJ Augustin, but this reminds me of when LB ordered drafting DJA instead of Brook Lopez because LB is so caught up in coaching/riding PG's and we needed a second PG on the roster at the time, while not needing a center(Brook Lopez) so much.

See how that worked out.

Did we lose sight of the big picture here??

[BETCATS]

I was working last night but when I saw on my phone we took MKG I was a little confused. But the more I thought about it the more it made sense. We made a big investment in Tyrus. I said multiple times last season that this would be the make or break year for him. He gained weight back and has had more time to rehab, so I think choosing Thomas Robinson would start a conflict. We wouldn't have enough minutes for both T-Rob and Tyrus to develop properly. Even though I think T-Rob will be a superior player, it makes more sense to stick with what we have. Both of them seem like Dunlap type of guys. Tyrus hustles harder then most players do and all this talk of him falling off/the low impact he made last season probably will give him some good motivation. We obviously don't need Beal after the Ben Gordon trade. MKG was the best fit. We all know his strengths. Our defense is going to be outstanding with him and Hendo on the outside + Bismack and Tyrus holding down the paint. The big criticism of his game is the fact he didn't shoot a lot in college. But he has a good shooting form, I trust he'll improve enough to make us forget we were judging him for it in a few years.

We still need to resolve the point guard situation and get a veteran presence for our locker room. I want Jamison to come in. Hopefully he can teach MKG a thing or two. We have the whole summer for that.

I also want to add that I don't appreciate the way people with a contrary opinion are treated around here. "Oh. You are against Cho? Haha you aren't a real fan!" If the only people who have been "real fans" since this team was created made up the fan base, it'd be the 6 of us on here (I did not have an account but have supported this team since Bob Johnson and David Stern gave it to us). As our fan base grows, I'm guessing it'd be natural for the amount of different opinions to grow too. When someone with 1,000+ posts tells a person with 3 posts that their opinion is invalid because it is different, that person with 3 posts probably won't want to come back for more. That's why I dont come here as much anymore.
And I know you all really miss me :D :D :D :D

TLDR - Yay Cho, go Bobcats, and stop being such bullies to the n00bz!

[SWedd523]

Your opinion is invalid

[JohnnyTimmons]

I love this sentiment and post, we need more like it.
I know Thomas is hated around here, and trust me I have thrown something at a cat while watching him play. However, we do have multiple years and dollar dollar bills (yo) tied up into a long, multi-tooled, once highly regarded prospect in Tyrus Thomas. And like it or not, we owe it to him and ourselves to give him as many chances as we can. (If we can't unload him easily.)
So yes, great move and I like that we are going to try again to develop Thomas. I still think he can't be as bad as he looked last year, and should go to the summer league along with MKG and Biyombo and maybe even Kemba.


Also you said in your post that MKG "But he has a good shooting form..." -- It is my understanding that the concerns of most was that he specifically DID NOT have a good shooting form. Have I heard wrong? Because if his form is also good that makes the pick more of a steal considering I heard it was his only real weakness.

[JohnnyTimmons]

Yes and No. While I don't think we went into the draft SOLELY looking for the BPA, I don't think we "dropped the ball." And of course its ridiculously early to tell without even a summer league game to look at.

A Davis was obviously the BPA, seems to me that 2-5 or so were on the same level, and it broke down to different players at different levels after that. It was, in the best possible way, a crapshoot between Beal, Gilchrist, Barnes, and Robinson who was the BPA. Beal is a great shooter but undersized, MKG top defender with good size/athleticism but with questionable offense, Barns no defense, Robinson questions about ceiling. Now, who knows who will be best player?
I think Gilchrist has just as much chance to be the best out of those 4 as the rest of them, but that mean like the lottery (as we all know too well) he probably will be second best or even third. That being said I don't think it will be by much.

Did I get sidetracked? Maybe. Point to all this is that there is BPA and there is BPA with multiple players that are so close it becomes a judgement call of who is evaluating, and what you need on the team. People are scared of picking for need because there is always the scare of missing something great, but when that greatness isn't obvious like A Davis, and the choices are close, I think it is absolutely alright to pick based on a number of factors.

Type of player and position of need would be hight up in my factors at that point.

[SWedd523]

You could easily argue that MKG is a bad fit considering he's primarily a defensive player. Fit would've been Barnes or Robinson and we didn't go that route. Under that assumption, it makes it seem more like he was considered the BPA.

[ND22]

Tyrus Thomas has been in the league seven years. His development period is pretty much over. His motivation (as Ballwhore told us earlier this year) is to give VIP passes to fans who were heckling him so he could beat them up in the hallway. Dunlap could easily break this guy if his psyche is in a similar spot. Gaining 20 pounds means nothing to me, he needs to show it on the court, and frankly I believe he won't.

I agree that MKG was a good choice, but he doesn't have a good shooting form. DX Express's video profile on him highlights this. Shooting form can be corrected though, but that doesn't mean he will automatically turn into Ray Allen. He will provide everything else though, I am excited for that.

[BETCATS]

Also you said in your post that MKG "But he has a good shooting form..." -- It is my understanding that the concerns of most was that he specifically DID NOT have a good shooting form. Have I heard wrong? Because if his form is also good that makes the pick more of a steal considering I heard it was his only real weakness.
That's what everyone says. I am just stating my opinion from the videos I saw of his workouts. The shot was going in consistantly. The mechanics are off but I think that can be worked on.

[BETCATS]

Tyrus Thomas has been in the league seven years. His development period is pretty much over. His motivation (as Ballwhore told us earlier this year) is to give VIP passes to fans who were heckling him so he could beat them up in the hallway. Dunlap could easily break this guy if his psyche is in a similar spot. Gaining 20 pounds means nothing to me, he needs to show it on the court, and frankly I believe he won't.

I'm not sure that's true. A lot of guys are late bloomers. Last year was a toxic situation overall. Yes, he can be a bit of a headcase at times in his responses to things, but I think that season brought out the worst in everyone. I don't expect him to act that way with the right coaching and winning: two things that both lead to less of the types of conflicts that Tyrus gets caught up in. His game relies so much on his athleticism and his strength. Gaining 20 pounds does mean something. He lost a lot of weight last year for some reason while he was rehabbing and didnt gain much back until now. We are paying him. His return value is lower than it should be. At the very least we should keep him until we know for sure: the either amnesty him, trade him, or continue on with him depending on the results.

[Scrapper1]

I dont think so. It seemed like Charlotte wanted him from the beginning and even though the mock drafts changed possible selections every 2 days, the Bobcats stuck with their man. It's time to get a winning culture in Charlotte.. great work ethic and desire to want to win games AND be here. Another thing, LB didnt make this selection..Augustine and Hendo are honestly part of the problem and this entire team needs a facelift,everyone is soft. MKG has a Kobe work ethic... and hes only 18! Kobe didnt have a Kobe work ethic at 18.

Regardless of who was selected at #2, someone would have had an issue with it. Can you imagine how good this guy will be at 21? He's not even done growing yet, he works relentlessly on his flaws.. i saw a training vid on him a bit after the draft lottery, he did nothing but ball handle and shoot jumpers.. missing none. During the draft combine, he was late because of a time miscommunication.. he was at another gym training for hours when they called and still rushed to the combine and knocked it out the park. When a player is on a team as talent stocked as Kentucky, you cant really get a clear look at all they can do. But when they get to the NBA on a team with less to work with.. they really show you. You cant teach desire..

[Dunk]

Could depend on how you evaluate players. It seems obvious that the Bobcats are now looking for youth, speed, athleticism, work ethic and defensive ability. The last two years that's exactly what they've drafted while adding picks. The scouting reports I read say MKG and Taylor are elite athletes and the two best wing defenders in the draft, period.

So the more picks we have along with a couple of veterans with only one or two years left (which we could dump on a contender mid-season) that seems a little more apparent. Given another year to work, I think we may be well positioned if our draft turns out.

[BlockParty]

I see your point, and the NBA is clearly a business, but at some point (and I think the interviews you mentioned are the point) they have to stop treating the players as assets (despite that's what they are in this business) and welcome the brand new 18 year old into the company business. We need MKG to get off on the right foot and FEEL as if he's wanted here by the 3 people he'd consider his bosses (4 including MJ).

I know we have some other 18 year olds in the chat boards...how would you like to be talked about by your new bosses to the public/media/your parents/your friends? try to ignore that fact that he is an instant millionaire.

[kickazzz2000]

Some people have opposing opinions and of course that is fine, even welcomed.

However, some people are terminally stupid, and need to know this.

[spectre]

I don't think Thomas has anything to do with it; most reports had us trying to dump him in a trade down.

Cho did make the right moves however because on HIS board MKG was the BPA...and it appears there was enough separation between him and the next guy to where it wasn't worth the risk to trade down.

We were all in for Cho before and there's absolutely no reason to be bailing on him now. In my mind now MKG was definitely the best player available.

[spectre]

I think we were sold on him for a while and it very well could have influenced the DET trade.

But no, I firmly believe that to Cho MKG was the BPA.

[heelcat]

In looking through the posts on the board today, I see so much negativity surrounding the pick of MKG. I will admit, at first I was surprised by it. But within 30 seconds, I had a smile on my face and loved the pick.

Let's not forget, this draft was just a small piece of the process. Now we begin looking to next season's draft and what kind of position we are putting ourselves in. We could potentially end up with 3 picks in the first round, and I feel strongly that we aren't done collecting picks just yet.

As for MKG...he is just a guy that will do anything and everything to help his team win. How can you ever go wrong on a guy like that. Once all pieces are in place, this will be the guy that brings it all together. He will be the leader on and off the court and he will be one of the most beloved athletes we have ever had in Charlotte.

[amour217]

No, I don't think they dropped the ball. I admit I was surprised by the pick, because I remember once hearing Dunlap on the radio saying that we should draft someone who can make baskets. BUT that was just the once...all the other times I've heard anything about or from Dunlap, he was mentioning the need for tough defense and a fast-paced offense...so yeah, I think MKG was a great pick. I think he has the desire and the ability to improve on both sides of the court

[ohara831]

No we did not drop the ball. Things are going to change for the better in Charlotte basketball. And that is a good thing.

[adam187]

i'm gonna take the optimistic approach to MKG's shooting mechanics.

there's a saying that goes something like this: a track coach is watching two sprinters run a race, but can only pick one for his team. they both run the exact same time, but one guy has perfect form and the other guy runs like a dilapidated walrus. now which one does he pick? most people say the first one, but in reality, he should and would pick the second one because he can perfect the second runner's form, in which case the runner would likely improve and end up being faster than the first guy. there's room for him to grow.

now maybe MKG goes through his career being like Shawn Marion, which is fine if it works. But maybe he does get really good help (Kemba's shot is supposed to be restructured this summer as well, isn't it?) (Paging Dell Curry) and his shot does improve. watch out for sure if anything like that happens. fingers crossed.

[Lynel_The_Creator]

I liked the picks. I have patience and faith in 3 years this team will be a contender.

[spectre]

But I want to be back in mediocrity now dammit!

[MadBOBCATfanUK]

I'm going to sit on the fence on the MKG pick and get a sore ass. But i'm sure we all know he is going to be shooting dawn till dusk, trying to get better.

[superb1]

They were sold as he being BPA but were trying to obtain more picks. They risk losing out on MKG if moving to #4

[Adam42R]

I was working last night but when I saw on my phone we took MKG I was a little confused. But the more I thought about it the more it made sense. ...

Makes more sense to me today than it did. Thomas Robinson clearly wasn't our first pick. And the pickup of Ben Gordon ruled out Beal. So we had some diversions out there to throw folks off our target. We clearly wanted MKG. And as it is, we got not only the guy we primarily wanted, we got a second guy that we probably would have never expected to nab. So IF we had made that vaunted trade w/ the Cavs for the 2&31 for the 4&24&33, we may have still gotten our #1 guy in MKG (but there was probably a tempered risk that the Wiz pick him up if Beal is off the board) and we would have felt lucky to get a Taylor at the 24th slot (and we'd be on the hook for more money for the same guy we get in the 2nd round - note that he was expected to be gone by the 24th pick anyway - not that he would have been the "only" guy we'd have been looking for at that pick).

Bottom line is that we got who we wanted at the #2 pick so if we traded down to do it or not is irrelevant. We also got a lot of value in the #31 pick. If we had been able to execute the 2 for the 4&24 (keeping our #31 pick), we probably would have done it. As it is, we got - according to us; and since we could have picked anyone at the #2, I believe Cho & Whit & co. - exactly who we wanted in the 1st and better than we expected in the 2nd.

I think this was very well done indeed the more I ponder it. Excited to be a Cat!

[JamieMcNeill]

But I want to be back in mediocrity now dammit!

Yeaaa! WTF were we thinking?! I don't want to wait a few years to be a serious contender! I want to be a perpetual 8th seed/playoff doormat again!

[Black]

Agreed. We can either:

A-Take Robinson, sign Beasley, and a few other pieces to maybe win 30 games next year.

-or-

B-Draft MKG, develop him, accept that we won't be great next year, and probably have a top five pick, and a mid-first round pick from Portland.

It's a gradual process to become a good team. Quick fixes never work. MKG might never average 20 a game, but he will be an essential cog in the puzzle going forward. We have a young team, give them time to gel, and they could be special in a couple of years.

[Ghost Kat]

However, some people are terminally stupid, and need to know this.

Say it again

[Talent]

I think the issue here is there were 3 BPA's on the board so we had to pick the one that we felt fit the vision for the teams future. I know the other two players will be fine NBA players, but so will MKG. Even if he never averages over 15 PPG not many draft picks do.

[Dcarnys]

Loging on here and seeing all the MKG hate seriously made me think someone started the Suicide Pact again.

[kitch0202]

From my perspective, it's not that I hate (or even dislike) the MKG pick. I have little doubt he will be a good NBA player and it has been said many times that shot mechanics are one of the easiest things to teach/improve. I wish him all the best and will love the energy and defence he will bring next season and beyond.

However ...

When I look at the players available to Portland (for example) at 6 & 11 I can't help but think we could have brought in two players, both of similar quality to MKG. And no, bringing in two lottery picks isn't going to derail our rebuild and condemn the franchise to mediocrity! They may not have ended up adding many/any wins next season, but would have been two good young building blocks for the future rather than 1.

MKG or Leonard & Lamb?
MKG or Drummond & Harkless?

That is my only regret and it has nothing to do with any ill feeling to MKG.

[Kemba2Hendo]

No

Trust in Cho

[skratch]

Atleast next year we can get a legit big man with SIZE thats all i want now

[heelcat]

I think we can all agree we would have like to have multiple picks. But at the same time, what we don't know is why the deal did not go down. From what I have heard, the Bobcats were the ones really wanting the deal to get done. Cleveland was the one holding it up. Therefore, we can't blame the team for taking the guy they have wanted all along.

[WAM9]

The thing that i like is this.

MKG is Cho's guy. Period. Evidently, he has been his guy since early in the process and he didn't want to tip his hand. He said he didn't move down to the 4 because he wasn't positive he could still get MKG.

The fact that Cho is so sold on MKG probably means that it is the right pick for our franchise going forward.

I have never meant it more...In Cho I Trust!

[ohara831]

I think the FO did have a #4 and #24 deal on the table. But I think they felt pretty certain that MKG would be gone at #3 if Beal was taken by the Cavs at #2. You remember the talk about the Wiz considering trading #3 to someone who wanted T-Rob if Charlotte made the deal to let someone else get Beal at #2. But they also said that the Wiz were looking pretty hard at MKG.

I think looking back now, you can see Cho and MJ valued MKG a lot more than they did T-Rob or Barnes. They would not even take the chance MKG would be gone at #3 as they did not want T-Rob or Barnes as a consolation prize at #4. I have to say I am impressed that our FO was able to keep their true intentions so quiet. That is a hard thing to do when too many people know what is happening.

[DCAWFAN]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1241168-nba-draft-grades-2012-team-by-team-report-card-results-and-analysis#/articles/1241168-nba-draft-grades-2012-team-by-team-report-card-results-and-analysis/page/17
apparently bleacher report thinks we dropped the ball. First press iv seen yet who doesn't think "MJ" actually made a decent pick for once.

[Kemba2Hendo]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1241168-nba-draft-grades-2012-team-by-team-report-card-results-and-analysis#/articles/1241168-nba-draft-grades-2012-team-by-team-report-card-results-and-analysis/page/17
apparently bleacher report thinks we dropped the ball. First press iv seen yet who doesn't think "MJ" actually made a decent pick for once.

bleacherreport is the least reliable source in history! Any poster from this site could sign up an write an article there.

[DCAWFAN]

bleacherreport is the least reliable source in history! Any poster from this site could sign up an write an article there.

Not saying thats its a good source just found it interesting how low the grade was.

[Kemba2Hendo]

Chad Ford is stating that there was disagreement in the room regarding this pick and it came down to MJ's decision.

I hate to even bring this up considering this is Ford who totally hates the Bobcats and is a super douche on top of that. I doubt he knows what he's talking about.

[Kemba2Hendo]

Not saying thats its a good source just found it interesting how low the grade was.

Me too, I am a tough judge and give it a B+ but what I meant is BrotherDave gave it a C-. It could be a mad Bobcats fan like him that doesn't know what he is talking about that wrote it.

[GoBobs]

From my perspective, it's not that I hate (or even dislike) the MKG pick. I have little doubt he will be a good NBA player and it has been said many times that shot mechanics are one of the easiest things to teach/improve. I wish him all the best and will love the energy and defence he will bring next season and beyond.

However ...

When I look at the players available to Portland (for example) at 6 & 11 I can't help but think we could have brought in two players, both of similar quality to MKG. And no, bringing in two lottery picks isn't going to derail our rebuild and condemn the franchise to mediocrity! They may not have ended up adding many/any wins next season, but would have been two good young building blocks for the future rather than 1.

MKG or Leonard & Lamb?
MKG or Drummond & Harkless?

That is my only regret and it has nothing to do with any ill feeling to MKG.

I would take MKG over all four of those guys without a second thought. We will be able to pick up Drummond for nothing in two years after he is a super bust.

[DCAWFAN]

Chad Ford is stating that there was disagreement in the room regarding this pick and it came down to MJ's decision.

I hate to even bring this up considering this is Ford who totally hates the Bobcats and is a super douche on top of that. I doubt he knows what he's talking about.
I wouldn't doubt that there was disagreement, pratically everyone came to the agreement that there is little seperation 2-4 so its almost given it was going to be a very difficult decision. Its not necessarily a bad thing.

[Scrapper1]

Not sure if any of you great folks are familiar with MKG's story but he has had a rough road somewhat similar to T-Robs. Very interesting read. Check it out below:

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/06/26/4589217/mom-plays-point-for-likely-nba.html

[Bobcatter]

I'd be interested in knowing what the disagreement was. Draft MKG at the 2 spot or ______________?

Regardless, I'm comfortable with this pick. Taylor at 31 was nice as well.

[ALong13]

I don't like the pick, but he's a bobcats now and I will support him and prove me wrong. Do I think he was the second best player available? Absolutely not, but he's on our team now.

As for our options of A) Draft Robinson, sign Beasly and win 30 games now or B) Draft MKG, develop him accept we won't be good and draft again next year those could go either way. Win 30 game isn't going to be good had we drafted Robinson and signed Beasely, but we'd have them same picks from choice B to Choice A. Therefore if I really had to pick I would have gone choice A, Draft Robinson, Develop him, sign a SF, not expect to be good/win 30 games and draft again next year. But I'm not the team management and therefore what I want doesn't ever happen (Biyombo is the only pick that I've ever asked for before the draft), but as I said these guys are on our team now therefore agree with the pick or not, we need to hope for the best in the development of our players and hope they prove us doubter wrong. I hope years down the road from now I can talk about how stupid for my picks I would have chosen during draft time (outside of Biyombo)

Regardless what I think, Welcome to the team MKG and Jeffery Taylor, shut me up and work your hardest to improve, I may not have agreed with your selection, but as long as you are on this team I will support you.

[SWedd523]

Can't believe we're still having the "WE NEED TO BE GOOD NOWZ!" discussion. We're building something, not putting a bandaid on it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIE5QtkxzvM

[ohara831]

Would also like to know who was disagreeing. Cho and Rod, Cho and MJ, Rod and MJ? And who wanted what. I had thought MJ said Cho had all the authority for trades and drafting yesterday.

[spectre]

Chad Ford is stating that there was disagreement in the room regarding this pick and it came down to MJ's decision.

I hate to even bring this up considering this is Ford who totally hates the Bobcats and is a super douche on top of that. I doubt he knows what he's talking about.


Didn't he have us going with Robinson til the end? If he didn't know that then how would he know about any disagreement?

There were no rumors whatsoever about us & MKG so I find it hard to believe this would suddenly get out.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

Higgins vs. Cho and someone has to go?

[Veteran_Picksetter]

If Dunlap is like most Bobcat coaches, he will be gone in two years. And we will have 20-year-old MKG here fitting our FORMER coach's "defense and running" plan.

I guess the philosophical question is......How much should a completely unproven new NBA coach's "system" drive the draft selection of a team trying to bounce back from being the worst team in NBA history??

Not feeling like the eternal optimist today. Slept on the draft and woke up perturbed I didn't have T-Rob or two good first rounders....

[Veteran_Picksetter]

You could easily argue that MKG is a bad fit considering he's primarily a defensive player. Fit would've been Barnes or Robinson and we didn't go that route. Under that assumption, it makes it seem more like he was considered the BPA.

We were also one of the worst defensive teams in the league. We needed everything. The point is, did the front office give in too much to an untested coach trying to implement his "defense and running" plan?? I almost wish we'd hired our coach AFTER the draft on this one--even though that is frowned upon from what I've heard.

[spectre]

We were also one of the worst defensive teams in the league. We needed everything. The point is, did the front office give in too much to an untested coach trying to implement his "defense and running" plan?? I almost wish we'd hired our coach AFTER the draft on this one--even though that is frowned upon from what I've heard.

You're basing your premise on the idea they didn't view MKG as BPA but instead went with a "fit" pick.

I think the idea of the certain type of culture they wanted was implemented before Dunlap was chosen...indeed the choice of our coach was part of trying to build that culture. The pick wasn't to please the coach. but part of the overall plan of what they're building for.

[dnbman]

I think we were sold on him for a while and it very well could have influenced the DET trade.

But no, I firmly believe that to Cho MKG was the BPA.

Exactly. The NEED only became important after the trade, which was done with the the thinking that they'd draft MKG. I'm guessing they had a SF pegged for the beginning of the second round also.

I think the trade talk was to try and get MKG. When it didn't look like MKG would fall to 4, they decided not to trade. It's as simple as that. Washington seemed to pretty content on drafting MKG if Beal was not available. They might have taken Barnes, but I think the FO decided it wasn't worth the risk and decided not to make the trade.

MKG is the type of SF that fits on just about any type of team. He's the type of guy that will have the 3 position on lock down for the next decade or more as long as he stays healthy and continues to improve, which all signs point toward happening.

BPA, right fit, and allows the team to go in a variety of directions in the future. I'm sold.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

Can't really add much.

I have zero faith in Tyrus. He is dead to me. Failing to draft T-Rob had nothing to do with Tyrus's feelings, unless our front office is really stupid. Guess they just liked MKG better.

And yeah, like the other guys said, no way MKG has good form. That $%#t is ugly.

The thing I don't understand is, with all the early coaching these kids get nowadays, why do so many come into the league with ugly-ass, broken, impractical shooting forms?? And we get to be the ones who collect them(see Kemba and Gilchrist). Do I need to start coaching AAU ball?? (I really don't like young people very much. So please say no.)

[Veteran_Picksetter]

It's a gradual process to become a good team. Quick fixes never work. MKG might never average 20 a game, but he will be an essential cog in the puzzle going forward. We have a young team, give them time to gel, and they could be special in a couple of years.

A. Quick fixes never work unless you are Boston the summer they added Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett to a bad team featuring Paul Pierce. In such rare cases, quick fixes get you an instant championship.

B. Give some of us a few days to accept the fact that we will never see T-Rob's 18 and 12 in Charlotte. It's gonna take me a while to get used to the idea of a defensive specialist glue guy who might not be effective for 2-3 years with the number 2 pick....I tried to be optimistic last night, but I'm backsliding.....

[SWedd523]

It's not that his form is bad. He just has three issues. 1. the biggest is he shoots on the way down (which gives it that double pump look) 2. he doesn't square to the goal fully and 3. he palms it a little bit

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/621/887/134008518_display_image.jpg?1322628280

I'm a shooting stickler and spent much of my years growing up working on my form by myself and on summers with coaches. All of his issues are correctable as long as he's willing to work.

his BASE form is a solid starting point. Guide hand off the ball, elbow in and squared pretty good, solid lift, and a pretty good release point.

Get him to work with his feet set and his shoulders squared, making sure he releases when he reaches his tip toes and he'll correct most of his problems in one summer. Not sure about the release because that's a lot of muscle memory, but we'll see

[Veteran_Picksetter]

Can't believe we're still having the "WE NEED TO BE GOOD NOWZ!" discussion. We're building something, not putting a bandaid on it.



I guess any true, longterm Bobcat fan would have to be pretty impervious to losing by now. I'm starting to wonder what the eff is wrong with me for caring so much. (Don't answer that)

7 losing seasons out of 8......Soon to be 8 of 9......

[dnbman]

Draft tab
Lost Corey Maggette, a good guy who didn't produce a lot for us.

Gained a stud 3 point shooter in Gordon (who only has two years left of a terrible contract), a future stud SF, a potential super sub in Taylor, and a future first round pick.

I feel great.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

It's not that his form is bad. He just has three issues. 1. the biggest is he shoots on the way down (which gives it that double pump look) 2. he doesn't square to the goal fully and 3. he palms it a little bit

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/621/887/134008518_display_image.jpg?1322628280

I'm a shooting stickler and spent much of my years growing up working on my form by myself and on summers with coaches. All of his issues are correctable as long as he's willing to work.

his BASE form is a solid starting point. Guide hand off the ball, elbow in and squared pretty good, solid lift, and a pretty good release point.

Get him to work with his feet set and his shoulders squared, making sure he releases when he reaches his tip toes and he'll correct most of his problems in one summer. Not sure about the release because that's a lot of muscle memory, but we'll see

You say that his form isn't bad, and then you proceed to list 3 things that help comprise bad form. Really??

I've shot and been coached a bit myself. He pushes the ball too straight ahead and therefore doesn't get enough arc.

At least he isn't shooting it like Jamal Wilkes or Shawn Marion.

[SJackson1]

we should have a great rebounding team next season with Biyombo, Thomas and MKG and i think Tyrus will come back with a vengance !

[Veteran_Picksetter]

If somebody can find a quote from Cho, Higgins, OR Jordan saying MKG was a the best player available, then I'm all ears. I've only heard them talk about him as a "fit" and a "winner".

And if somebody has already presented such quote in this thread already, I apologize.

[SWedd523]

I guess any true, longterm Bobcat fan would have to be pretty impervious to losing by now. I'm starting to wonder what the eff is wrong with me for caring so much. (Don't answer that)

7 losing seasons out of 8......Soon to be 8 of 9......
Just about all expansion franchises suck in the beginning bro

[Veteran_Picksetter]

we should have a great rebounding team next season with Biyombo, Thomas and MKG and i think Tyrus will come back with a vengance !

MKG and an improved Biyombo could MAYBE get us rebounding evenly with our opponents, which is a start.

I don't understand why people think Tyrus will suddenly not be a knucklehead anymore. And has he ever demonstrated much rebounding ability in the past??

[SWedd523]

Pretty sure they said it in the post draft presser

[SWedd523]

You say that his form isn't bad, and then you proceed to list 3 things that help comprise bad form. Really??
isn't THAT bad.

The issues are small and easily correctable other than his release point.

I had an issue with not squaring my shoulders when I was younger, had it fixed in one summer without NBA work ethic, talent, or trainers.

[dnbman]

If somebody can find a quote from Cho, Higgins, OR Jordan saying MKG was a the best player available, then I'm all ears. I've only heard them talk about him as a "fit" and a "winner".

And if somebody has already presented such quote in this thread already, I apologize.

Addressing his intangibles, Cho said he was one of the most impressive candidates he interviewed in 17 years. (top 5)
Higgins also said they were very pleased with the pick and bottom line, he was the number one option. Not exactly the expression "BPA" but certainly suggesting so.

Having a hard time pasting from sources on the tablet I'm on.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

Just about all expansion franchises suck in the beginning bro


"Just about all" didn't suck as bad as us, bro.

Orlando 4 winning seasons in first 8.
Toronto 3 winning seasons in first 8.
Charlotte Hornets 4 seasons at .500 or more in first 8.
Miami 2 winning seasons in first 8, then went 61-21 in year 9.
Minnesota 1 winning season in first 8 and then went 45-37 in year 9.
Bobcats 1 winning season in first 8, and probably about to go 20-62ish in year 9.
Vancouver. Okay they truly sucked. I'm glad we're not them. I think they had already moved to Memphis by now.


Those are the facts. I know people will use Orlando's luck in getting Shaq and the Charlotte Hornets' lottery luck as some excuse. But we've had 3 picks in the top 3 over 8 years ourselves.

[BlockParty]

If somebody can find a quote from Cho, Higgins, OR Jordan saying MKG was a the best player available, then I'm all ears. I've only heard them talk about him as a "fit" and a "winner".

And if somebody has already presented such quote in this thread already, I apologize.

Higgins answers Bonnell's question within the first minute of this interview, the question referred to us viewing MKG as the 2nd best player in the draft.


http://www.nba.com/bobcats/video/rod-higgins-and-rich-cho-nba-draft-news-conference

[JGib23]

I noticed he also brings the ball across his body/ face on a lot of shots and shots on the way down. Both of those things take valuable time, which will lead to contested shots that otherwise would be open looks.

Both correctable and hopefully addressed soon.

[dnbman]

"Just about all" didn't suck as bad as us, bro.

Orlando 4 winning seasons in first 8.
Toronto 3 winning seasons in first 8.
Charlotte Hornets 4 seasons at .500 or more in first 8.
Miami 2 winning seasons in first 8, then went 61-21 in year 9.
Minnesota 1 winning season in first 8 and then went 45-37 in year 9.
Bobcats 1 winning season in first 8, and probably about to go 20-62ish in year 9.
Vancouver. Okay they truly sucked. I'm glad we're not them. I think they had already moved to Memphis by now.


Those are the facts. I know people will use Orlando's luck in getting Shaq and the Charlotte Hornets' lottery luck as some excuse. But we've had 3 picks in the top 3 over 8 years ourselves.

Most of those teams were able to get way better talent than we could get. Vince Carter, Franics, McGrady, Zo, LJ, Penny, Shaq, etc.

Okafor was the best pick at the draft we took him 2.
Ammo was terrible and every team has terrible picks behind them.
MKG been our only other top 3 pick. We've had him for about 27 hours.
One of our problems was we were moderately successful for a losing expansion team, pushing us to round 9-10 in most drafts. It's hard to get quality young players that way. AND there's no question that our strategy of building with what we had was a disaster.

That being said, everything seems to be turning around in terms around in terms of how we're constructing the franchise. It's going to hurt losing for another couple of seasons, but I sense a lot of hope and love having such great YOUNG talent. We're talking about guys that can't legally drink yet and more mature than many NBA veterans.

[notdeadyet]

For me, the key here is Dunlap's belief in running the ball upcourt, maintaining a high-energy tempo. To keep that up requires getting turnovers from your D. BOTH these picks are top-rated wing defenders, so they fit his plan perfectly.
Taylor already is a good 3-point shooter. Someone pointed out that although Kidd-Gilchrist is not known for shooting, he IS a very good FT shooter NOW. I tend to agree with his assessment that Kidd-Gilchrist, gym-rat that he is, should quickly develop his offensive game as a Pro.
Oh, and BOTH our picks are fierce competitors...

[dnbman]

Oh, and BOTH our picks are fierce competitors...

I don't know enough about Taylor to comment, but I read that one of his knocks was that he'd disappear in games at times. Any legitimacy?

[Black]

And let's not forget, he's still the age of a high school senior. Plenty of time to work out any kinks.

[SWedd523]

Wins average through first 8 years

Orlando = 40.375
Charlotte/New Orleans = 34
Toronto = 31
Miami = 30.875
Charlotte = 28.625
Minnesota = 24
Vancouver/Memphis = 19


Take out this year's obvious tankfest and they move up to second on the list


Bro

[TheBeagle]

If Dunlap is like most Bobcat coaches, he will be gone in two years. And we will have 20-year-old MKG here fitting our FORMER coach's "defense and running" plan.

I guess the philosophical question is......How much should a completely unproven new NBA coach's "system" drive the draft selection of a team trying to bounce back from being the worst team in NBA history??

Not feeling like the eternal optimist today. Slept on the draft and woke up perturbed I didn't have T-Rob or two good first rounders.... There isn't a system in which MKG wouldn't succeed....a winning system that is. You put him on any of the 30 teams in the league and that coach will fall madly in love with him. MKG defies "systems."

Put your mind at east...Dunlap had very little input in us drafting MKG.

[Black]

http://www.brocode.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/dont-bro-me.jpg

[raleigh]

No, I think they clearly felt MKG was the 2nd best player in the draft. The question, of course, is whether they were close to being right, and it'll be upwards of three years before we know the answer.

That said, this stuff about a "winning culture" is horse poop. You win in the NBA with superstar talent, and you lose in the NBA without it. Simple as that.

[Kemba2Hendo]

If somebody can find a quote from Cho, Higgins, OR Jordan saying MKG was a the best player available, then I'm all ears. I've only heard them talk about him as a "fit" and a "winner".

And if somebody has already presented such quote in this thread already, I apologize.

http://www.nba.com/bobcats/video/2012/06/28/120628higginschom4v-2141585

[spectre]

MKG and an improved Biyombo could MAYBE get us rebounding evenly with our opponents, which is a start.

I don't understand why people think Tyrus will suddenly not be a knucklehead anymore. And has he ever demonstrated much rebounding ability in the past??

Tyrus did pretty well under Larry Brown, sucked under Silas. I'd say Dunlap was more like the former than the latter. Tyrus seems to do better with discipline and structure (hell they all looked better with that). We're not going to improve his BBIQ but I think that odds are better that he can return to a decent form now.

[westbrook08]

I'm just not sure what's wrong with thomas.I think it's beyond basketball.I had an argument with a friend early in the playoffs when people were saying dwayne wade was done being elite and that miami should trade him in the offseason and all this crap.And i told him that wade was more hurt than he was telling the media,which we all found out was true.But i also told him that he looked like something was mentally wrong.And i mentioned to my buddy that you never know when these guys are having family problems or stuff going on off the court that we don't know about. And it came out after the playoffs that he has been going through a custody battle this whole year.And you hear about other players that fall off and years later you'll hear them talk in an interview about having a drinking problem or having so many family members constantly hounding them for things that it just made their life unmanageable.
Tyrus was arguably the best player on this team the second half of the season 2 years ago.And he really seemed to be finally turning a corner.I @ least like the fact that he's in the gym working hard and is putting weight back on.Because to me,in the interviews i saw last year,he looked depressed as if something larger was wrong.I'm hoping he is ok and that he can get back on track this year.Because if his head is right he can be a big contributor to this team!

[westbrook08]

I think he was clearly their guy.If it was that close they would have traded back.And to everyone who is upset that we didn't get 2 first rounders: Well,we really did because taylor was supposed to go in the mid 20's and fell to 31,which was a steal! And apparently we still might get scott machado too.Because we are one of 4 teams that offered him a summer league spot and he said that he will decide by sunday night.If we end up with all 3 i'd be pretty stoked!

[ohara831]

No, I think they clearly felt MKG was the 2nd best player in the draft. The question, of course, is whether they were close to being right, and it'll be upwards of three years before we know the answer.

That said, this stuff about a "winning culture" is horse poop. You win in the NBA with superstar talent, and you lose in the NBA without it. Simple as that.

You are correct that you win with talent. Yes. But you are incorrect about the issue of a "winning culture" on the Bobcats. This team did not have any leadership that could force his teamates to fight to the death on the court. A player who can impose his will to win on his teamates and make them play better. Not that the current players are lazy or uncaring; but none appeared to have that special "it" that defines a leader. I thought that Kemba might, but it did not show in his Rookie year. But I think you will see a difference in MKG. Just as Cam Newton brought a different attitude to the Panthers, I think you will see a different attitude in the Bobcats. And this applies not just to the players, but to the coaches as well. Dont think you saw the type of leadership from Silas that this team needed. But from the interviews I have seen so far, I think our new Coach is someone who can impose his will on the players and raise them to another level.

[raleigh]

This team did not have any leadership that could force his teamates to fight to the death on the court.

More horsey poops. What the team lacked was talent.

[Scrapper1]

I like Gilchrist a lot.. he had a game against Louisville where he had 24pts and 19rebs. At Kentucky, they put winning before all, so the true potential of these guys weren't even fully displayed. He was the teams captain, man among boys. If the Bobcats can get additional size and talent in the free agency and from the undrafted pool, they will be steps closer to serious improvement.

[polarcat]

Any word on Dunlap's bench coaches? With MKG being their newest, shiniest gem, is there any chance that he hires a former SG/SF shooter kind of specialist to specifically work the kinks out of MKG's shot? I know in baseball (pitching), football (qb hitch) and often in b-ball, it's not always the best thing to change mechanics if it's working, but the kid's shot will get swatted into the front row on a nightly basis if he doesn't alter it. Too much time between when he spots up until release and it won't fly in the NBA, IMO.

[notdeadyet]

Given that Dunlap's mantra is "RUN the court", the best way to keep the tempo UP is by creating turnovers with the D. We just drafted TWO of the top-rated wing-defenders in this year's draft.
NOTE that MKG does put the ball in the basket consistantly with his free throws, which tells me the FOCUS is there. At UK they already had scorers, so his focus was hustling on offense and defense, and he hit the boards too. I fully expect his offensive game to develop very quickly as a Bobcat.

[dnbman]

Any word on Dunlap's bench coaches? With MKG being their newest, shiniest gem, is there any chance that he hires a former SG/SF shooter kind of specialist to specifically work the kinks out of MKG's shot? I know in baseball (pitching), football (qb hitch) and often in b-ball, it's not always the best thing to change mechanics if it's working, but the kid's shot will get swatted into the front row on a nightly basis if he doesn't alter it. Too much time between when he spots up until release and it won't fly in the NBA, IMO.

I think most NBA staffs have specialty coaches, but it's more general, like shooting or bigs. I doubt we'd look specifically for a former 3. Much more likely we find a guy who's good at teaching shooting.

[kitch0202]

I would take MKG over all four of those guys without a second thought. We will be able to pick up Drummond for nothing in two years after he is a super bust.

I agree that MKG is a good prospect. It's personal opinion whether he's better than any ONE of the players I suggested. My point was that I would love to have had TWO of those players for the 2 pick. So for me Lamb (who I think is very near the equal of MKG as a prospect) and Harkless (who I think is fairly near) would have have made for a great draft and kept us well on plan. As it is MKG makes for a good draft and, obviously, keeps us on plan.

I'm not unhappy with his selection, and certainly not our rebuilding direction, I just think that we could have come away with more from this draft.

[BETCATS]

I don't think Thomas has anything to do with it; most reports had us trying to dump him in a trade down.

Cho did make the right moves however because on HIS board MKG was the BPA...and it appears there was enough separation between him and the next guy to where it wasn't worth the risk to trade down.

We were all in for Cho before and there's absolutely no reason to be bailing on him now. In my mind now MKG was definitely the best player available.
I agree that Cho's board lead to us getting MKG with the #2. But I think he was the best player available FOR US, not overall. Robinson is far more NBA ready than MKG and will most likely start making an impact earlier. We will never know for sure how the choice was made, but if I had to guess I'd say Cho ruled out Robinson because of the finances tied up in Tyrus and picked MKG over Barnes because his new software program/the predraft workouts lead him to do so. It really doesn't matter though, because we got the right guy for our future.

[Talent]

I have noticed from when this franchise has been created till now we have only had one or two players that could defend the wings..we just drafted two that could. This is a breathe of fresh air. Nothing was more frustrating than having players dominate us night after night by using wing players to drive and dish drive and dish over and over again. I think a defensive minded team with some guts will be just what this city needs to feel some basketball pride again.

[dnbman]

I have noticed from when this franchise has been created till now we have only had one or two players that could defend the wings..we just drafted two that could. This is a breathe of fresh air. Nothing was more frustrating than having players dominate us night after night by using wing players to drive and dish drive and dish over and over again. I think a defensive minded team with some guts will be just what this city needs to feel some basketball pride again.
a
Can't wait until we get a PG that can do the same thing. Kemba may be that guy, but I'm guessing he's going to be more of a pesky guy who tries to corral people than a stopper.

[dnbman]

I agree that MKG is a good prospect. It's personal opinion whether he's better than any ONE of the players I suggested. My point was that I would love to have had TWO of those players for the 2 pick. So for me Lamb (who I think is very near the equal of MKG as a prospect) and Harkless (who I think is fairly near) would have have made for a great draft and kept us well on plan. As it is MKG makes for a good draft and, obviously, keeps us on plan.

I'm not unhappy with his selection, and certainly not our rebuilding direction, I just think that we could have come away with more from this draft.

While I don't know enough about Lamb to say with any true accuracy, he doesn't seem to have the all around game that MKG possesses nor the instinct and attitude. He appears to be much more of a shooter than anything else, though I'm sure he'll be a nice sg. We had Harkless's coach at our disposal, so I doubt the FO missed anything in evaluating the talent.

I think we tend to look at the draft more like consumers and good FOs look at it more like creating a perfect machine. We want more value and entertaining trades. They want the best pieces they can possibly get to make that machine work. They evaluate these guys much more than we do and have a greater since of how all of these guys fit together. I'd be willing to bet they could speak at length on why one guy is better than another, but would be the point in doing so to a public that doesn't understand half of what they're saying and would largely consider such comments as unnecessarily bad mouthing other players, perhaps even future Bobcats?

[BrotherDave]

The process is fucked, we officially suck at drafting players. Rolling out of this 7 win season with MKG and Jeff Taylor is just fail, no matter how you slice it. It's so easy to get good wings in the Nba, so easy that we arguably got one more NBA-ready than MKG with our 2nd round pick.

[BrotherDave]

We overpaid by drafting the easiest position to fill twice. Anyone who thinks MKG was the best pick b/c he's a "winner" and has a great "motor" has been watching too many sports movies.

[JGib23]

Wins average through first 8 years

Orlando = 40.375
Charlotte/New Orleans = 34
Toronto = 31
Miami = 30.875
Charlotte = 28.625
Minnesota = 24
Vancouver/Memphis = 19


Take out this year's obvious tankfest and they move up to second on the list


Bro

I think we pass Minny after next season.

Also the other expansion teams had competition in the expansion draft, lower initial pick awarded, and tougher salary restrictions.

We have sucked terribly- don't know why some are trying to spin it. Things are looking better but, there is absolutely nothing worthy of a pat on the back that this franchise has ever accomplished ( getting swept in the playoffs, doesn't excite me).

I'm pulling like he'll for MKG to be as great as he seems to want to e. If he is half as good as he wants to be, he will be the best player we've ever had... I love his attitude!

[DashGlobal]

The process is fucked, we officially suck at drafting players. Rolling out of this 7 win season with MKG and Jeff Taylor is just fail, no matter how you slice it. It's so easy to get good wings in the Nba, so easy that we arguably got one more NBA-ready than MKG with our 2nd round pick.

What will be funny is when Taylor out plays MKG next year....

[Talent]

Small Forwards are easy to find? And Taylor has played the 2 spot before.

[dnbman]

We overpaid by drafting the easiest position to fill twice. Anyone who thinks MKG was the best pick b/c he's a "winner" and has a great "motor" has been watching too many sports movies.

Filling it and having a great player in that role are two different things. The FO things they have a potential cornerstone in MKG. Taylor is a second round pick that will likely be a regular rotation player for us. Most guys in the second round don't stay in the league. Can't figure how that's overpaying.

[dnbman]

The process is fucked, we officially suck at drafting players. Rolling out of this 7 win season with MKG and Jeff Taylor is just fail, no matter how you slice it. It's so easy to get good wings in the Nba, so easy that we arguably got one more NBA-ready than MKG with our 2nd round pick.

So, you're basically writing-off an 18 year old kid from day one as nothing more than average, "easy to get" wing? Is it possible that a guy who was considered one of the best high school players in the nation (2011 Mr. Basketball); who got tons of awards his freshman season, shining despite playing with NBA first round talent around him; and who convinced a ton of NBA professionals that he is a special player has more to offer than just being an average wing player?

He's not as sexy right now as getting a strong big like Robinson or a prolific scorer like Beal, but he could easily turn out to be the second best player, maybe even the best player, of a fairly strong draft.

On behalf of the universe, I'm sorry you are so angry about our draft, but it might be good to give the guy a couple of seasons before you say that he was a terrible pick and isn't anything special.


What will be funny is when Taylor out plays MKG next year....

While I highly doubt it, it could very well be that Taylor outplays him next year. That doesn't mean that MKG doesn't have a very bright future. Kobe only averaged 15.5 minutes his first year in the league. I'm not saying he's going to be a Kobe level talent (so please don't reply, "you're comparing him to Kobe!!!?!!), I'm just pointing out that he doesn't have to be amazing straight out of the gate to be a future all-star.

[WAM9]

The process is fucked, we officially suck at drafting players. Rolling out of this 7 win season with MKG and Jeff Taylor is just fail, no matter how you slice it. It's so easy to get good wings in the Nba, so easy that we arguably got one more NBA-ready than MKG with our 2nd round pick.

Sorry BrotherDave, but I disagree with you again :)

Everything seems to be going completely to plan as far as I can see.

[spectre]

It's humorous as a non-college follower to watch guys sit here and argue against a pick in a draft where it was long decided that there wasn't much if any separation between 2-5. It's hard not to fall in love with a prospect and I had to fight hard not to fall in love with TRob. At the end of the day however most of us agree we brought in a guy who should be considered well above us all in evaluating what the best pick should be. He's done the research, ran it thru his own database which may well be the most advanced program that evaluates players in the NBA and he's watched these guys personally.

Embrace the guy. As a fan of the team it's in everyone's best interest that he succeed and we need to get behind that. Arguing about it now is like beating a dead dog lying in the ditch.

[polarcat]

The process is fucked, we officially suck at drafting players. Rolling out of this 7 win season with MKG and Jeff Taylor is just fail, no matter how you slice it. It's so easy to get good wings in the Nba, so easy that we arguably got one more NBA-ready than MKG with our 2nd round pick.

So after a 7-win season and with the #2 selection in this year's NBA Draft, you would've selected......? Look, I was a TRob fan up until David Stern walked up to the podium Thursday night, but the truth is that MKG, Robinson and Beal were 2A,2B, & 2C options for our pick. Robinson would've looked great on our squad, but he was just as equal as MKG and outside of the hitch in his jumper, I haven't found a lot of negative from what GM's around the league had to say about the kid.

[kitch0202]

Didn't he have us going with Robinson til the end? If he didn't know that then how would he know about any disagreement?

There were no rumors whatsoever about us & MKG so I find it hard to believe this would suddenly get out.

The other point to consider is that Chad Ford is probably covering his arse by essentially saying: 'I was partially right about T-Rob being their pick but then MJ came along and we all know his track record. He should have gone with T-Rob just like I said.'

[kitch0202]

Back to the original question ... in my opinion yes. They should have traded down and picked two good prospects rather than one who, to my mind, didn't separate himself from the pack.

I can therefore only assume that Cho disagrees and thinks he did separate himself from the pack and was thus worth the second pick.

I think it's fair to say Cho knows more than I do about MKG, the other prospects and the game in general.

So I support the pick, but maintain my right to be sceptical.

[BrotherDave]

So after a 7-win season and with the #2 selection in this year's NBA Draft, you would've selected......? Look, I was a TRob fan up until David Stern walked up to the podium Thursday night, but the truth is that MKG, Robinson and Beal were 2A,2B, & 2C options for our pick. Robinson would've looked great on our squad, but he was just as equal as MKG and outside of the hitch in his jumper, I haven't found a lot of negative from what GM's around the league had to say about the kid.

I would have taken any of our 5 legit offers to trade down for multiples. No point in drafting one of 2A, 2B, 2C when the draft is 2A-T. Houston's draft >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>our draft and it isn't even close, for example.

[BrotherDave]

B/c we can draft a player as productive as MKG in any draft from 5-15. We fell in love with the media darling when we could have just as easily traded down and gotten Harkless which would have been much better value.

[dnbman]

B/c we can draft a player as productive as MKG in any draft from 5-15. We fell in love with the media darling when we could have just as easily traded down and gotten Harkless which would have been much better value.

How can you possibly know what an 18 year old kid's production is going to be? Again, we have Harkless's coach on our staff. I'm sure they know more about both of those guys than either of us do.

His projections are a perennial all-defensive type player who is great in transition and finishing with the ball. That alone is not easily found in the 5-15 range. If he adds a good jumper, which many people believe will happen, that easily puts him into the top 5 category.

He may only be a mediocre player for his career. However, I don't think you can justify a guy who was regarded as one of the best players in the nation since he was a junior is only a typical mid-low lottery pick.

[dnbman]

Back to the original question ... in my opinion yes. They should have traded down and picked two good prospects rather than one who, to my mind, didn't separate himself from the pack.

I can therefore only assume that Cho disagrees and thinks he did separate himself from the pack and was thus worth the second pick.

I think it's fair to say Cho knows more than I do about MKG, the other prospects and the game in general.

So I support the pick, but maintain my right to be sceptical.

A very reasonable position.

[cltblkhscoach]

Man all I have to say is Emeka Okafor was the rookie of the year over Dwight Howard. Okafor was more NBA ready that year. See where that got us? Lol, I wanted T-Rob or Barnes myself but I'm going to support MKG and Taylor because I love the team. Crying over spilled milk at this point is getting old as hell.

[McBeastie]

I don't think Cho let the media influence the MKG pick at all. I know the "He's a winner. He works hard." narrative is the popular (lazy) story to push for ESPN, The Observer, etc; but I think it minimizes his physical talent/production on the court when they do, especially on the defensive end, where I think he can become elite. His jumper is erratic, to say the least, but at 18 I think it's something he has the time to develop consistency with. No one should expect him to shoulder the load on offense this year, but a guy who's that aggressive in transition and around the rim will find ways to score for you, or create scoring opportunities for his teammates.

[Ghost Kat]

I have to admit I was pretty pissed off on draft night. But thinking bout the big picture both SF's are good picks for the future. Now most likely we will suck again next year, but hopefully it won't be as depressing. I like the Gerald Wallace comparisons and this team needs a rebirth of Crash. What lil I know about Jeff Taylor I like so far. He seems to be forgotten in this draft but it's a really smart pick. Doesn't look good for UPS but I'm ready to try something new.

The more I think about it I'm most excited about the possible three picks put together by Cho in next years draft. Most likely all 10-20 range but still thats pretty amazing dealing done with the worthless pieces we had to deal. I like building through the draft, But OKC lucked up getting Durant. I mean, seriously, It could have been Oden.

[Black]

I have to admit I was pretty pissed off on draft night. But thinking bout the big picture both SF's are good picks for the future. Now most likely we will suck again next year, but hopefully it won't be as depressing. I like the Gerald Wallace comparisons and this team needs a rebirth of Crash. What lil I know about Jeff Taylor I like so far. He seems to be forgotten in this draft but it's a really smart pick. Doesn't look good for UPS but I'm ready to try something new.

The more I think about it I'm most excited about the possible three picks put together by Cho in next years draft. Most likely all 10-20 range but still thats pretty amazing dealing done with the worthless pieces we had to deal. I like building through the draft, But OKC lucked up getting Durant. I mean, seriously, It could have been Oden.

We likely won't have all three of those picks in next year's draft. Probably Portland's pick and our own. The Pistons would have to make the playoffs for us to cash in on their's next season.

[Ghost Kat]

We likely won't have all three of those picks in next year's draft.

I kinda got lost, but we have picks from Portland, Pistons and someone else in the future right?

[spectre]

Nah Kat I think that's it. We also owe next year's 2nd to OKC, and of course that dark cloud hanging over our heads...the future 1st to Chicago for Tyrus.

[Ghost Kat]

Cho brought in Bizzy B and MKG...two defensive guys with very little offensive game. I hope their energy somehow translates into points

[Ghost Kat]

the future 1st to Chicago for Tyrus.

I forgot about that, I seriously hope he improves this year. I've been a fan but last year was shameful. I'm even more thankful now Cho got those picks

[DashGlobal]

I forgot about that, I seriously hope he improves this year. I've been a fan but last year was shameful. I'm even more thankful now Cho got those picks

We traded a 1st round pick for that scrub?!?! smh

[dnbman]

We traded a 1st round pick for that scrub?!?! smh

^ new jack. (Doesn't understand the real pain.)

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8111377/2012-nba-draft-cleveland-cavaliers-scenes

Looks like MKG was very high on the list for the Cavs. Both he and Beal would have been gone at #2 and #3, so we likely would have takem T-Rob at #4 is my guess. And it does not seem the FO was sold on him at all. Looks like Cho did make the right decision in keeping the pick.

[spectre]

Inside the Cleveland Cavaliers' draft (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8111377/2012-nba-draft-cleveland-cavaliers-scenes)



There were numerous opinions and each scout and coach had slightly different lists. But it was pretty clear there were two names at the top once everything had been culled: Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6601/michael-kidd-gilchrist) of Kentucky and Dion Waiters (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6628/dion-waiters) of Syracuse.

The Cavs were also quite high on Bradley Beal (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6580/bradley-beal) of Florida and Harrison Barnes (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6578/harrison-barnes) of North Carolina. They had done exhaustive research on all four players. There wasn't much separating them. That's the real edge of any draft: Even with so many trained eyes and objective measurement tools, there's always an uncomfortable uncertainty. This is generally accepted if not at all embraced.
Remember everyone reporting that the Cavs were wanting #2 to take Beal over Washington? They wanted MKG.


Wilcox and Redden believed that if Charlotte indeed kept the pick that it'd take Kidd-Gilchrist. Other people in the room weren't as sure, thinking the Bobcats were very interested in Kansas forward Thomas Robinson (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6618/thomas-robinson). This was the pick that would have the biggest effect on the Cavs' first decision. The team had gone equally as deep with the Kentucky small forward as it had gone with Waiters. In addition to being the kind of impact wing the Cavs were really looking for, Kidd-Gilchrist was a high school teammate of Irving's and had the same representation team as Tristan Thompson (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6474/tristan-thompson), the Cavs' other standout rookie from the 2011-12 season.

The Cavs also had real interest in shooting specialist Beal but were rather certain he would not get past the Wizards. So it came down to the Bobcats' call. The Cavs were either going to have their choice of Kidd-Gilchrist or Waiters, or have the choice made for them.
Pretty obvious now the OP's question is answered; if we traded down we lost our guy.

[ohara831]

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8111377/2012-nba-draft-cleveland-cavaliers-scenes

OOPPS! Spectre just posted this link. My bad. But it seems to me that Cho did the right thing. We would have had to draft T-Rob at #4, and it seems to me the FO was just not sold on him. Just like the Cavs. Interesting.

[spectre]

Hahah I thought I was in this thread when I posted that...good job Ohara!

There's too many threads on the same subject. What the hell are our mods doing?

[dnbman]

Merging analysis from multiple threads.

[Ghost Kat]

2012 NBA season aka the Bobcats Blue Collar Comedy Basketball Tour....seriously though we do have alot of get on the floor, dive out of bounds, take a charge from Lebron at full speed type of guys. Atleast 4 of the starting 5....Tyrus is a possible. I take the back 3 out of 5...Bizzy B will just block it and yell out "Bismack smack ball".

[Scrapper1]

If Thomas Robinson got drafted, people would have had a problem with that.. "oh, hes undersized.. Derrick Williams 2.0" or Barnes "Jordan picked him cause hes a Carolina guy.. hes an idiot" or Drummond " he shoots 29% from the ft line, hes lazy too" and they REALLY would have hated the Beal selection "who the fuck is he?!". Cant please people.

Give the kid a chance.. Kentucky played to win, not for stats. So, all their players on their team have not shown their full capabilities. MKG was their leader.. he was the leader on his h.s team also (that included kyrie irving),and both teams won championships..that gotta stand for something. They wanted him.. come to find out, the teams behind them wanted him too. Why trade for an extra pick if the man you really want will not be there by 4? I love the pick, by the way.. and they got a steal at #31 too.

[Toocool]

The only bigger thing that could of really happened, was if Cho did take a punt and trade down for #4 and #24 (it was 24 from memory? not 100% sure). Only then would we have taken either T.Rob/Barnes and then PJIII. That would of been huge. However, they seem to have been completely sold on MKG and was rated extremely highly (by both Bobcats and Cavs)

[ncstamey]

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8111377/2012-nba-draft-cleveland-cavaliers-scenes

OOPPS! Spectre just posted this link. My bad. But it seems to me that Cho did the right thing. We would have had to draft T-Rob at #4, and it seems to me the FO was just not sold on him. Just like the Cavs. Interesting.


I'm glad an article has came out this because I was telling a friend of mine who felt like the Cats shit the bed with the #2 pick, and not trading down to get MKG at 4, that I suspected all along the Cavs wanted MKG and were just playing up all the hype to try and get our #2 and take him.

We probably wanted a guarantee that they wouldn't pick him and it couldn't get one so decided on keeping the pick. Great job by Cho to get his man.