12-13 roster breakdown w/in-depth

[gm in training]

i honestly felt last year that the bobcats had a 8th seed team ,its just that we had to many injuries to our core players(dj,hendo,tyrus,reggie williams and maggette) to make any legit run to the playoffs.i know injuries are a part of sports but teams usually dnt have about 4 starters injured throughout the year ,i think silas had our core line-up for like 7-10 gms for the whole year .Our line-up was so debilitated that silas had alot of d-league type players getting quality minutes , and starters playing out of position.I think we may be a 7-8 seed team this year depending on dunlaps coaching and health of the team .

Starters

pg. dj augustin- dj might get an offer,so we better cross our fingers we can keep him.dj is a top 15 point guard in the lg. dj is a very good game manager and he is amongst the league top assist to turnover ratio's. he plays within the game pace and he doesnt force anything , although he is a capable scorer and a efficient long-range shooter he can take over . the downside to dj is his size(6'0 180) and that he cannot guard the avg nba pg and isn't reliable on defense but there are few elite/good pg's who were liabilities to there teams ex; steve nash,damon stoudamire,mike bibby,tim hardaway and thats to name a few but with an overall good team defense we can mask his deficiencies.

dj's projected stats 31 min,14.5pts,7.2 ast, 3.0 reb,0.8 stl

sg. gerald henderson - hendo in my opinion is a top 20 player . he's the bobcats franchise player (also,please people stop saying that gordon is a starter), we passed on drafting beal and we won't accept any trades involving hendo.hendo has good size for a shooting guard(6'5 215) and he has elite athleticism which allows him to play bigger than most guards . he is a great scorer with multipule ways to score; hendo has a pull-up jumper,post game,transition game,and he knows when to attack the basket. hendo seperates himself from most guards because he can also play good defense, an aggressive rebounder, plays the passing lanes ,and is a willing shot-blocker,he's almost a poor mans d-wade except he doesnt have the ball-handling skills and quickness. i think with this up coming season they will express their belief in hendo and make him share the ball-handling duties and he will become alot more aggressive ,where last year he didn't take over( except the month of april where he shown flashes of stardom).

hendo's projected stats 35 min, 21.3 pts, 3.8 ast, 5.6 rebs,1.1blks,1.4stls

sf. mkg- I kinda hoped we would of picked thomas robinson because i felt that he was the 2nd coming of larry johnson/charles barkley ,a player who was undersized but was physically gifted and very skilled at everything but i'll take mkg.mkg isn'tyour typical 2nd pick because he's not a scoring wing, mkg is an elite defender who is also a elite rebounder for his position but he's 18 so there is a crazy upside to develop offense . he may not be the franchise player(some teams have two or the big 3) now but he may develop into one or just become an elite specialist who helps teams become better and even championship calibur just like ben wallace, dennis rodman,tony allen,tyson chandler,and etc...these are role players but their elite players who fit perfect .although mkg is limited offensive wise he has different ways to score either if its transition points or even in college he showed an good post game but he makes his money being the grunt of the team who guards every position and with all the elite scorers being sf's and over 6'6 ,mkg is what we needed to compete . mkg brings a blue-collar worth ethic along with a huge upside .

mkg projected stats 29 mins,11.7pts, 7.3 rebs,2.5 ast,1.0 blk ,1.2 stl

pf. tyrus thomas - i dnt think the bobcats will amnesty tt because he is only 25 and in his career he has posted all-star numbers compared to his minutes played.tt has gained 20lbs of muscle which has me excited that he's coming into a season with a new mind set to improve his body and game. last year i felt that tyrus was playing at 50% healthy, he didn't seem to have his athleticism and not mention he came into the season missing pre-season ,and without any practice leading up to his 1st game. this season will make or break tt's career but i think he will get back to his old self because 6'10 pf's with 40 inch verticals ,run the transition, has a pull up jumper and is a excellent help defender/shotblocker don't grow on trees. I think the bobcats will give him another try ,plus this is a coaching challange for dunlap.

t.t's projected stats 32 min 16.9 pts, 8.2 rebs, 2.0 ast, 1.4 stl, 2.7 blks

c. by.bismack- bismack is a ben wallace clone with more athleticism . alot of peole dnt like the idea of a 6'9 center but bismack has a 7'6 wingspan and he's only 19 which by 23 he could grow 1-3 inches. bismack will never play pf because he's to stiff and doesnt have any offensive abilities plus he produced good numbers at center and held his own against dwight which alot of 7'0 footers cant do .bismack will become more acclimated with how things are and will become a monter for years to come .

bismack projected stats 30 min ,9.8 pts ,9.4 rebs ,2.5 blks, 0.8 ast ,0.9 stls


bench


6th man. pg/sg kemba walker- lets face it guys , he lacks the vison of a pg ,but lacks the size of sg soooo he's a tweener and tweeners don't start in the nba ,but he may start depending if dj leaves but the bobcats realize that kemba isn't reliable so we are searching for potential true pg's(ramon sessions,dragic) .unless ur an elite tweener like allen iverson, russell westbrook,eric gordon, monta ellis ,he might have a chance but there are also boatloads of tweeners who will never be a starter(unless injuries ,in-game situation) like jason terry, bobby jackson,BEN GORDON, shannon brown,louis williams and etc.. kemba isn't an elite tweener but may be an great 6th man for years to come . kemba is a scorer and for him to thrive he needs his own unit to were he is the go 2 guy. kemba is not only a good scorer but he is really aggressive on the boards ,and there was times during the year he had triple-double like numbers .

starter kemba's projected stats- 32 min 17.4 pts , 5.3 rebs, 6.2 ast,1.6 stls
6th man kemba's projected stats -26 min ,14.4 pts ,3.9 rebs ,3.9 ast, 1.2 stls

7th man . sf/pf antuan jamison,sg ben gordon,pf/c byron mullen-if jamison signs i will consider us to have a top 5 bench . jamison has had a promising career and is still effective , he posted 16pts and 6 rebs last year and made the caveliers relevant in a suppose to be be down year . jamison has plenty of post moves , can stretch the floor and can rebound . i think jamison can give us quality mins at sf and pf. trading for ben gordon is very confusing because that would give us two tweeners and no team has two tweeners except golden state did and they traded monta ellis . i think that we are preparing us for the worst case scenerio if dj leaves making kemba the starter and gordon the 6th man but if that doesnt happening where do we go from there ? if kemba stays on the bench i think they will turn gordon into more of a spot shooter than scorer , i mean alot more coming of screens and spot up 3's . if you ever seen ben gordon play he doesn't pass at all , its times i've seen him go at double teams like he's kobe but he may not be the primary ball-handler coming off the bench so thats good news . i really wish we could of kept corey maggatte because he was putting up near all-star numbers last year but injuries always plagued him. byron may be our future pf if tyrus doesnt produce by mid-season. byron has the body of a center(7'0 270) but the mindset of a sf he doesnt like to bang and get rugged ,he's more of a pick and pop type player with 3-pt range and is very agile for his size. byron doesn't get aggressive but he is a willing shot-blocker and he has alot of upside.



jamison projected stats- 25 min , 13.7 pts 5.4 rebs 1.7 ast 0.4 blks 0.8 stls
mullens projected stats- 18 min 10.5 pts ,4.7 rebs ,0.4 ast ,1.2 blks, 0.5stls
6th man ben gordon's projected 26 min 15.4 ,pts 2.2 ,1.8 ,ast ,0.7 stls
bench ben gordon's projected stats 17 min 9.5 pts 1.4 rebs 1 ast 0.3 stls

[Whiz Kid]

Finally, someone agrees with me on the Kemba/DJ subject. People blame DJ for this and that but the fact of the matter is, DJ didn't/doesn't have capable guys around him to work with. With the addition of Gordon, a perimeter threat, the development of Hendo all around, and the addition of MKG, a transition/easy bucket guy, DJ has the opportunity to do more. Not to mention he's very quick and with his handling, can get to the basket pretty well. It's a far stretch, but I like to compare DJ to Chris Paul. They are basically the same size and have similar skill sets. The difference is the team around them. DJ can create for himself almost as well as Paul can. Paul is stronger and can finish better with contact though. All I'm saying is give DJ guys and it leads to better success. I love Kemba, but I still want DJ.

[ND22]

You believe Gerald Henderson is a top 20 player in the LEAGUE?!

[polarcat]

Finally, someone agrees with me on the Kemba/DJ subject. People blame DJ for this and that but the fact of the matter is, DJ didn't/doesn't have capable guys around him to work with. With the addition of Gordon, a perimeter threat, the development of Hendo all around, and the addition of MKG, a transition/easy bucket guy, DJ has the opportunity to do more. Not to mention he's very quick and with his handling, can get to the basket pretty well. It's a far stretch, but I like to compare DJ to Chris Paul. They are basically the same size and have similar skill sets. The difference is the team around them. DJ can create for himself almost as well as Paul can. Paul is stronger and can finish better with contact though. All I'm saying is give DJ guys and it leads to better success. I love Kemba, but I still want DJ.

DJ had more talent during the playoff run and the following year than we have this coming year. I was a huge DJ guy and still hope he succeeds somewhere other than here. He's a good guy and I truly believe he got off on a bad foot under LB and hasn't recovered mentally..... just my opinion for whatever it's worth. If we truly are moving forward as a franchise, DJ needs to accept a Jet Terry role or find a new team that can give him what he wants. I respect your loyalty to him though, because this is the first year that I'm stepping back from backing him as our starting PG.

[gm in training]

ok i may be pushing it but have you seen him play? its very realistic

[captaincrunk]

ITT: DJ Augustin is Chris Paul and Gerald Henderson is a top 20 player.

[SWedd523]

"Hendo in my opinion is a top 20 player"


BETCATS, is his opinion invalid?!

[bes628]

i honestly felt last year that the bobcats had a 8th seed team
dj is a top 15 point guard in the lg.
hendo in my opinion is a top 20 player .

And there are you're 3 strikes.

[Whiz Kid]

ITT: DJ Augustin is Chris Paul and Gerald Henderson is a top 20 player.

ANNNNNNNNDDDD....That's why I'm skeptical about every single thing I post. Someone is always going to take out words in what I say and make it seem completely different...

[gm in training]

And there are you're 3 strikes.

u cant name 15 point guards better and im guessing you didn't watch any bobcat games if you didn't understand my optimism about hendo being a top 20 player

[gm in training]

yeah i truly dont think these ppl didnt watch any games and are going off perception

[SWedd523]

Paul
Deron
Rondo
Rose
Westbrook
Parker
Wall
Lawson
Kyrie
Nash
Lowry
Curry
Rubio
Conley
Holiday

That's 15 PGs better than DJ, easily, off the top of my head


LeBron
Durant
Dwight
Kobe
Wade
Paul
Rose
Deron
Rondo
Bosh
Love
Dirk
Carmelo
Westbrook
Amare
Blake
Aldridge
Joe Johnson
Steve Nash
Paul Pierce

That's 20 better players than Hendo, easily, off the top of my head

[Black]

Smells like a DashGlobal alter ego.

Henderson isn't anywhere near the top 20.

[captaincrunk]

Paul
Deron
Rondo
Rose
Westbrook
Parker
Wall
Lawson
Kyrie
Nash
Lowry
Curry
Rubio
Conley
Holiday

That's 15 PGs better than DJ, easily, off the top of my head

I think you could make arguments about Conley, Holiday, and Lawson.

Conley = 13, 6, and 2 per 36
Holiday = 14, 5, and 3.5 per 36
Augustin = 13, 8, and 3 per 36
Lawson = 16, 7, and 4 per 36
Lawson is the best of those four, but after him I think I'd take Augustin. Though when you factor in defense, it all evens back out.

[captaincrunk]

Smells like a DashGlobal alter ego.

Henderson isn't anywhere near the top 20.

Would you put him in the top 20 shooting guards?

[gm in training]

Paul
Deron
Rondo
Rose
Westbrook
Parker
Wall
Lawson
Kyrie
Nash
Lowry
Curry
Rubio
Conley
Holiday

That's 15 PGs better than DJ, easily, off the top of my head


LeBron
Durant
Dwight
Kobe
Wade
Paul
Rose
Deron
Rondo
Bosh
Love
Dirk
Carmelo
Westbrook
Amare
Blake
Aldridge
Joe Johnson
Steve Nash
Paul Pierce

That's 20 better players than Hendo, easily, off the top of my head

point guard list - jrue holiday and conley are questionable ,if roles were reveresed with augustine you'll probably would have a different answer.
top 20 list - u already messed up putting amare on that list , nash cant even give you quality 25 min (this isn't 2007)without back spasms and would you trade paul pierce for gerald henderson?

basically when i made that comment it was to round em off ,and based on your perception it was a give or take opinion ex; you can make holliday or conley interchangeable with dj or ,hendo may not be a top 20 but maybe 25-30 but you came off like what i said was far fetched or i was talking crazy .instead of using rationality you just felt like being an ass but we both could play that game

[Black]

I think you could make arguments about Conley, Holiday, and Lawson.

Conley = 13, 6, and 2 per 36
Holiday = 14, 5, and 3.5 per 36
Augustin = 13, 8, and 3 per 36
Lawson = 16, 7, and 4 per 36
Lawson is the best of those four, but after him I think I'd take Augustin. Though when you factor in defense, it all evens back out.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=augusdj01&y1=2012&p2=lawsoty01&y2=2012&p3=holidjr01&y3=2012&p4=conlemi01&y4=2012

Advanced stats don't lie. DJ is the worst of the four mentioned.

[Black]

Would you put him in the top 20 shooting guards?

Probably, but being a top 20 shooting guard is a far cry from being a top 20 player.

[gm in training]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=augusdj01&y1=2012&p2=lawsoty01&y2=2012&p3=holidjr01&y3=2012&p4=conlemi01&y4=2012

Advanced stats don't lie. DJ is the worst of the four mentioned.

wow you just looked at the stats and clearly said dj was the worst when the stats clearly show that he is better than conley and holliday ,not to mention they're both on better teams? its some wierd ppl out there .

[captaincrunk]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=augusdj01&y1=2012&p2=lawsoty01&y2=2012&p3=holidjr01&y3=2012&p4=conlemi01&y4=2012

Advanced stats don't lie. DJ is the worst of the four mentioned.

PER is completely stupid, and anyone who likes it is probably a simpleton amused by pictures of trains.

[Black]

PER is completely stupid, and anyone who likes it is probably a simpleton amused by pictures of trains.

So ignore PER. DJ is still the worst.

[captaincrunk]

So ignore PER. DJ is still the worst.

How? Jrue Holiday has the same TS% so you're not going by that. Conley has a lower TRB% so it's not that. DJ's AST% is far and away the best of the group, so surely it's not that.

[Black]

How? Jrue Holiday has the same TS% so you're not going by that. Conley has a lower TRB% so it's not that. DJ's AST% is far and away the best of the group, so surely it's not that.

DJ is slightly lower than Holiday in TS%, but I digress.

By far the worst defensive rating.
By far the lowest win shares.
By far the lowest effective field goal percentage.
The highest turnover percentage.

He may be better than Holiday, but Holiday is also the youngest of the group at 24. DJ is a tier below Conley and Lawson.

[SWedd523]

I think you could make arguments about Conley, Holiday, and Lawson.

Conley = 13, 6, and 2 per 36
Holiday = 14, 5, and 3.5 per 36
Augustin = 13, 8, and 3 per 36
Lawson = 16, 7, and 4 per 36
Lawson is the best of those four, but after him I think I'd take Augustin. Though when you factor in defense, it all evens back out.
Conley and Holiday are vastly superior defenders. DJ has nothing on either one of them other than outside shooting, and he (DJ) has been spotty with that his entire career. No GM or coach in the league would take DJ over any of those players

[gm in training]

Paul
Deron
Rondo
Rose
Westbrook
Parker
Wall
Lawson
Kyrie
Nash
Lowry
Curry
Rubio
Conley
Holiday

That's 15 PGs better than DJ, easily, off the top of my head


LeBron
Durant
Dwight
Kobe
Wade
Paul
Rose
Deron
Rondo
Bosh
Love
Dirk
Carmelo
Westbrook
Amare
Blake
Aldridge
Joe Johnson
Steve Nash
Paul Pierce

That's 20 better players than Hendo, easily, off the top of my head

top 25 at least

1lebron
2durant
3wade/kobe
4paul
5dwight
6deron
7rose
8rondo
9bynum
10love
11dirk
12carmelo
13josh smith
14iguadala- he's high because he's a team guy and the best perimeter defender in the lg not to mention he plays 1-4 and fills the stat sheet up
15aldridge
16blake
17manu
18joe johnson
19tim duncan
20kevin garnett
21harden/westbrook - westbrook is low because he hinders the team and as a point guard he makes the worst decisions ever and ppl finally got to see how bad he plays during the playoffs but i doesnt stop there he plays like that all year long
22 al jefferson
23hendo- he's around the top 20 because he one of the few guards that have a all-around complete game and he gets better every year.
24rudy gay-rudy gay is low because he's a iso player who doesnt make the team better ,and thats why he's on the trading block
25 deng


bosh isn't no more than spot up shooting big man on the heat getting paid 15 million,i can get david west to do that and that doesnt make him a top 20 player so take him off the list , paul pierce isn't even the 2nd best celtic rite now take him off the list ,amare past year was horrible not even considered an ok year at best ,and u can catch steve nash on the sideline with back spasms everygame and without them super phoenix physicians you'll be lucky to get 25 min out of him .

[SWedd523]

point guard list - jrue holiday and conley are questionable ,if roles were reveresed with augustine you'll probably would have a different answer.
Hardly questionable. As already stated, those two are much more complete players and have shown the ability to consistently play at a high level whereas DJ couldn't guard my sister and is more up and down than a roller coaster. It's Augustin, by the way.


top 20 list - u already messed up putting amare on that list , nash cant even give you quality 25 min (this isn't 2007)without back spasms and would you trade paul pierce for gerald henderson?
Again, hardly. Even with the bad contract, bad knees, and losing fights to fire hydrants, Amare is still a far superior player to Henderson.

Nash has averaged over 25 minutes per game for the last 14 seasons. He averaged 31.6 this past year and put up 12/11 on incredible 53/39/89 percentages. And by incredible I mean he's the only qualifying player to do it, EVER.

And no, I wouldn't trade Pierce for Henderson if I were the Celtics. You seem to be confusing future with current. Pierce is currently a better player than Hendo.


basically when i made that comment it was to round em off ,and based on your perception it was a give or take opinion ex; you can make holliday or conley interchangeable with dj or ,hendo may not be a top 20 but maybe 25-30 but you came off like what i said was far fetched or i was talking crazy .instead of using rationality you just felt like being an ass but we both could play that game

Neither one is anywhere near even 25-30 range in the league.

I'd much appreciate you posting your list of top 25 or 50ish players in the league

[SWedd523]

PER is completely stupid, and anyone who likes it is probably a simpleton amused by pictures of trains.
That might be the worst argument against anything I've ever heard ever. Totally unrelated and doing nothing other than deflecting and calling someone stupid in a backhanded manner

[captaincrunk]

Conley and Holiday are vastly superior defenders. DJ has nothing on either one of them other than outside shooting, and he (DJ) has been spotty with that his entire career. No GM or coach in the league would take DJ over any of those players

Holiday is a good defender, yeah, but not really a great distributor at all. Conley is an average defender.

[captaincrunk]

top 25 at least

1lebron
2durant
3wade/kobe
4paul
5dwight
6deron
7rose
8rondo
9bynum
10love
11dirk
12carmelo
13josh smith
14iguadala- he's high because he's a team guy and the best perimeter defender in the lg not to mention he plays 1-4 and fills the stat sheet up
15aldridge
16blake
17manu
18joe johnson
19tim duncan
20kevin garnett
21harden/westbrook - westbrook is low because he hinders the team and as a point guard he makes the worst decisions ever and ppl finally got to see how bad he plays during the playoffs but i doesnt stop there he plays like that all year long
22 al jefferson
23hendo- he's around the top 20 because he one of the few guards that have a all-around complete game and he gets better every year.
24rudy gay-rudy gay is low because he's a iso player who doesnt make the team better ,and thats why he's on the trading block
25 deng

seriously? you forgot to skip the next number when you make a "tie". So your numbers are falsely low. Also, you missed tony parker, who placed in MVP voting. You missed Pau Gasol. You missed Marc Gasol, Z-Bo, Chris Bosh, Tyson Chandler, Amar'e Stoudamire, Steve Nash, Joakim Noah, Carlos Boozer...

Damn dude I could probably come up with 30-40 guys you missed without even trying hard

[captaincrunk]

That might be the worst argument against anything I've ever heard ever. Totally unrelated and doing nothing other than deflecting and calling someone stupid in a backhanded manner

It has exactly the same value as "advanced stats don't lie". I gave him what he gave me.

[SWedd523]

top 25 at least

1lebron
2durant
3wade/kobe
4paul
5dwight
6deron
7rose
8rondo
9bynum
10love
11dirk
12carmelo
13josh smith
14iguadala- he's high because he's a team guy and the best perimeter defender in the lg not to mention he plays 1-4 and fills the stat sheet up
15aldridge
16blake
17manu
18joe johnson
19tim duncan
20kevin garnett
21harden/westbrook - westbrook is low because he hinders the team and as a point guard he makes the worst decisions ever and ppl finally got to see how bad he plays during the playoffs but i doesnt stop there he plays like that all year long
22 al jefferson
23hendo- he's around the top 20 because he one of the few guards that have a all-around complete game and he gets better every year.
24rudy gay-rudy gay is low because he's a iso player who doesnt make the team better ,and thats why he's on the trading block
25 deng


bosh isn't no more than spot up shooting big man on the heat getting paid 15 million,i can get david west to do that and that doesnt make him a top 20 player so take him off the list , paul pierce isn't even the 2nd best celtic rite now take him off the list ,amare past year was horrible not even considered an ok year at best ,and u can catch steve nash on the sideline with back spasms everygame and without them super phoenix physicians you'll be lucky to get 25 min out of him .


So to be clear, you think Hendo is a better player than Wayne Ellington, Pau Gasol, Amare Stoudemire, Steve Nash, Zach Randolph, Paul Pierce, Chris Bosh, Al Horford, Marc Gasol, Tony Parker, Ray Allen, Danny Granger, Stephen Curry, Eric Gordon, John Wall, Monta Ellis, Roy Hibbert, Ty Lawson, and Kyle Lowry... among others?

[SWedd523]

Holiday is a good defender, yeah, but not really a great distributor at all. Conley is an average defender.
He averaged 4.5 assists on a team where every player touches the ball, alongside probably the best non-PG passer in the league other than LeBron (Iguodala). His role isn't the same as a Steve Nash. Even when DJ had his best year, he only averaged 6.1. Adding in the defense and overall offensive ability, reliability, and the good ol' fashioned eye test, he is a much better player (and prospect) than DJ.

And I think you're underrating Conley's defensive ability.


Put it this way, if all three were on the market right now, who would be signed last? Safe to say DJ?

[SWedd523]

It has exactly the same value as "advanced stats don't lie". I gave him what he gave me.

To use a couple of cliches

"Be the bigger man"
"Turn the other cheek"

if you think it's a dumb thing for him to say, ignore it. No need to start a silly argument over it. Report it and let the mods handle it accordingly

[gm in training]

So to be clear, you think Hendo is a better player than Pau Gasol, Amare Stoudemire, Steve Nash, Zach Randolph, Paul Pierce, Chris Bosh, Al Horford, Marc Gasol, Tony Parker, Ray Allen, Danny Granger, Stephen Curry, Eric Gordon, John Wall, Monta Ellis, Roy Hibbert, Ty Lawson, and Kyle Lowry... among others?



tony parker no.lowry yeah. lawson yeah.you've been comparing dj's defense to all these point guards but you put ray allen,stephen curry,monta ellis better than gerald henderson, and they all are one dimensional,big men are a premium in the league so thats a hard comparison except amare because he looked horrible . he's better than granger,granger cant rebound, he doesn't run the floor ,and he's stiff on d ,eric gordon missed a full season, john wall can't shoot plus he had like the highest turnover rate in the nba so he cant even play his position yet. even though i made the arguement just to be an ass but paul pierce no

[gm in training]

So to be clear, you think Hendo is a better player than Wayne Ellington, Pau Gasol, Amare Stoudemire, Steve Nash, Zach Randolph, Paul Pierce, Chris Bosh, Al Horford, Marc Gasol, Tony Parker, Ray Allen, Danny Granger, Stephen Curry, Eric Gordon, John Wall, Monta Ellis, Roy Hibbert, Ty Lawson, and Kyle Lowry... among others?

dude you put wayne ellington?

[gm in training]

seriously? you forgot to skip the next number when you make a "tie". So your numbers are falsely low. Also, you missed tony parker, who placed in MVP voting. You missed Pau Gasol. You missed Marc Gasol, Z-Bo, Chris Bosh, Tyson Chandler, Amar'e Stoudamire, Steve Nash, Joakim Noah, Carlos Boozer...

Damn dude I could probably come up with 30-40 guys you missed without even trying hard

yeah i missed tony parker but the rest no

[x2pacalypse]

somebody should do a cross-reference to the amount of wins a team has the previous year to the number of pointless arguments on forums

[SWedd523]

dude you put wayne ellington?
http://sotasports.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/ellington_wayne.jpg

[spectre]

This thread is freaking hilarious! The funniest part? Where the OP claims the other guys didn't watch the games!

DJ can't run the team. He's not a leader by any stretch. Above all else this puts him below those other guys.

[Chef]

i vote to close the thread. this is beyond silly, if anyone thinks we are an 8 seed, i have some magic beans to sell you. not to pile on the OP (especially since he is a new poster) he stated his opinion, some agree, most really disagree. let's shut it down and leave well enough alone.

[isguros]

u cant name 15 point guards better

Chris Paul
Tony Parker
Russell Westbrook
Rajon Rondo
Derrick Rose
Steve Nash
Deron Williams
Kyrie Irving
Jeremy Lin
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Jameer Nelson
Mike Conley
Brandon Jennings
Ty Lawson
Jeff Teague
George Hill
Jrue Holiday
Stephen Curry
Mario Chalmers
Raymond Felton
Devin Harris
Goran Dragic
Ramon Sessions
D.J. Augustin

Don't hate, it's just my opinion.

[isguros]

i vote to close the thread. this is beyond silly, if anyone thinks we are an 8 seed, i have some magic beans to sell you. not to pile on the OP (especially since he is a new poster) he stated his opinion, some agree, most really disagree. let's shut it down and leave well enough alone.

Does it matter how long you've been part of a forum to form your own opinion? No.

[Chef]

Does it matter how long you've been part of a forum to form your own opinion? No.

the point was that as a new member, i did not want him to feel like you can't state a minority opinion. all opinions are welcome, the point was that it is clear that there are two very different camps and this argument has run it's course, so let's shut it down before the inevitable happens and it devolves into insults and repetitious posts.

question: how could you possibly come to the conclusion that i was asserting that experience on this forum in any away correlates with the ability to have or form an opinion?

[Ghost Kat]

This started off interesting then took a strange turn.

[BETCATS]

"Hendo in my opinion is a top 20 player"


BETCATS, is his opinion invalid?!

I'm very interested, to say the least, in hearing the criteria that made Hendo a top 20 player.

I'm just saying if we chastise this guy's opinion he won't ever come back.

Welcome to the site gm in training!

[bes628]

At least new guy is optimistic, I will say that.

[SJackson1]

Im really excited about our current young players in Kemba, Biyombo, MKG, Mullens and Hendo. I think we need a starting scoring PF and Jamison fits the bill for that position, he will give a lot to the team on and off the court.

[dnbman]

u cant name 15 point guards better and im guessing you didn't watch any bobcat games if you didn't understand my optimism about hendo being a top 20 player

I love Hendo. Love his game. I expect big things from him this year.

He's not a top 20 player.

I do appreciate your in-depth first post! Welcome.

[ND22]

You know, calling Henderson our "franchise player" is right to an extent, he IS our franchise player (at the moment), and that is why we went 7-59 last year.

I appreciate your analysis gmintraining, but I cannot understand how you watched our team last year and came to the conclusion that we were an 8 seed if we had stayed healthy. There is a reason we have been the laughing stock of the league for the past year, it comes with being the worst team ever.

Augustin has reached his potential. He can't play defense, struggles on the dribble drive, and if he's not hitting outside shots he is not an offensive threat. When he asks for more money than we're willing to pay, he's gone.

While I think Henderson could be a 20 ppg scorer (and I have serious doubts he will), he will never be a top 20 player, let alone a top 50.

Your prediction that Tyrus Thomas will post All-Star numbers reflects what everyone has hoped he would eventually do when he was drafted. However, he's 25 now, he hasn't matured, and adding 20 pounds isn't going to change the fact that he's a total head case and a biggest piece of sh*t on the team.

I'm glad you have remained optimistic, because optimism feels a lot better than the hopelessness I feel, but your analysis is completely off base. You're a romantic, and that's great, they're some of the best people to be around, but when analyzing the Charlotte Bobcats the only way to do it is to be realistic and honest.

[spectre]

Henderson...

I still have pretty high hopes for the kid. In spurts he actually was "the man" and delivered. Considering that when he did that he had NO offensive help for the defenders to worry about other than him means something. When he does have other weapons around him where the defenders can't cheat AND he can become more consistent then we might have something.

Of course being consistent is a LOT harder than it sounds.

Another thing is there just aren't that many high quality SGs anymore and esp. one who can play on both sides of the ball.

Just gotta keep working hard.

[Scrapper1]

Bobcats dont have a franchise player..period. We all have opinions, but some deserve a healthy debate. Nobody has to be coddled, we are talking sports..thats all. "Well, he might leave".. if a person is too sensitive to partake in convo of disagreement..maybe its best that they do leave. I mean, the gentleman's name is gm in training.. if thats what he aspires to be.. disagreement is certain.

Look on the bright side... he has a successful thread *applauds*

[JohnnyTimmons]

This is ridiculous. To OP, Hendo might be a top 20 player. I don't think anyone on here goes only by advanced stats, or regular stats, or nostalgia or anything singularly. I know in my heart Henderson, Kemba, Mullens, Biyombo etc. etc. are all top 20 players. Based on wins added? No. Based on stats (which I do not discount by the way)? No.

But he is writing an opinion on a board made for fans to discuss the thing they love. No one said you had to be one hundred percent rational and objective on here.

I would take Henderson over any other SG in the league. Not because his stats or what he is, but because of who he is and what he can be. I like the guy, I like his damn face and receeding hairline. I like watching him get more minutes and better every year. Is he going to score as much as Iggy or Wade or Harden? No. But fuck it. I still want him.

Maybe I'm admitting to less rationality than the OP, but I don't think you can attack this stance like his was. I only watch Bobcats. I want them to win SO bad. I WANT to think all our players are top 20 (except Carroll and Diop).

I think we are an 8th seed. As a fan I see people stepping up, returning to form, bursting out the gate hungry for wins. I see a cinderella run into the finals. Rational? No. But please don't make me feel stupid for tricking myself into believing. This is a site for fans of the worst team in NBA history to talk about why we still are fans. Don't try to convince me otherwise.

Also, I think Kemba will start, Gordon will be back up guard, and DJ will be traded.

[ND22]

This is ridiculous. To OP, Hendo might be a top 20 player. I don't think anyone on here goes only by advanced stats, or regular stats, or nostalgia or anything singularly. I know in my heart Henderson, Kemba, Mullens, Biyombo etc. etc. are all top 20 players. Based on wins added? No. Based on stats (which I do not discount by the way)? No.

But he is writing an opinion on a board made for fans to discuss the thing they love. No one said you had to be one hundred percent rational and objective on here.

I would take Henderson over any other SG in the league. Not because his stats or what he is, but because of who he is and what he can be. I like the guy, I like his damn face and receeding hairline. I like watching him get more minutes and better every year. Is he going to score as much as Iggy or Wade or Harden? No. But fuck it. I still want him.

Maybe I'm admitting to less rationality than the OP, but I don't think you can attack this stance like his was. I only watch Bobcats. I want them to win SO bad. I WANT to think all our players are top 20 (except Carroll and Diop).

I think we are an 8th seed. As a fan I see people stepping up, returning to form, bursting out the gate hungry for wins. I see a cinderella run into the finals. Rational? No. But please don't make me feel stupid for tricking myself into believing. This is a site for fans of the worst team in NBA history to talk about why we still are fans. Don't try to convince me otherwise.

Also, I think Kemba will start, Gordon will be back up guard, and DJ will be traded.

We all want to think this, and damnit I have always led myself on to think our players are better than they are. Its part of what it means to be a fan of a team, we want our players to succeed so badly, to prove everyone wrong. For me though, this thinking always ends in disappointment.

Here's another perspective. I worked as a student manager for UNCW's basketball team the last four years. Because I was behind the scenes on a daily basis, I was completely invested in them. This four year span also happened to be the worst 4 year span in the school's history, winning 7 games, then 9, 13, and 10 respectively. Despite this, every year I felt things would turn around. I looked at the players and thought competing in the top half of the conference could happen, that making the NCAA tournament could happen. But at some point, after the losses had piled up, the same disappointment would come, and I would come to the same acceptance that we just weren't as good as I believed.

The point is, we glorify the players on the teams we root for. When they wear the jersey we so proudly adore, we believe their best years will be playing for us. We want to believe, because thinking any other way sucks. For me though, I've had enough romanticizing. I can't tell myself the Bobcats are going to be an 8th seed this year, because it will hurt too much when that doesn't happen. I've accepted the process we are taking, that another losing season is coming, because that's easier to stomach.

I'm not trying to make anyone feel stupid, but I hope you understand where I am coming from, and why I don't share the same amount optimism as you or gmintraining.

[gm in training]

You know, calling Henderson our "franchise player" is right to an extent, he IS our franchise player (at the moment), and that is why we went 7-59 last year.

I appreciate your analysis gmintraining, but I cannot understand how you watched our team last year and came to the conclusion that we were an 8 seed if we had stayed healthy. There is a reason we have been the laughing stock of the league for the past year, it comes with being the worst team ever.

Augustin has reached his potential. He can't play defense, struggles on the dribble drive, and if he's not hitting outside shots he is not an offensive threat. When he asks for more money than we're willing to pay, he's gone.

While I think Henderson could be a 20 ppg scorer (and I have serious doubts he will), he will never be a top 20 player, let alone a top 50.

Your prediction that Tyrus Thomas will post All-Star numbers reflects what everyone has hoped he would eventually do when he was drafted. However, he's 25 now, he hasn't matured, and adding 20 pounds isn't going to change the fact that he's a total head case and a biggest piece of sh*t on the team.

I'm glad you have remained optimistic, because optimism feels a lot better than the hopelessness I feel, but your analysis is completely off base. You're a romantic, and that's great, they're some of the best people to be around, but when analyzing the Charlotte Bobcats the only way to do it is to be realistic and honest.

first silas was a horrible coach , he had the team playing with no direction , it was damn near like he just threw the ball in the middle of the court and say play. there was no pick and rolls, screen play,he didn't draw up any plays for us to be effective.yes i think we could of been a different team last year without the injuries. corey maggette was in the top 5 free throw attempts(7 a game) so we lost a balanced player for half of the year,tyrus missed our first 11 games with an injury and when he came back he was playing at sf(out of position) ,bismack or byron didn't become part of the rotation till mid-season, augustin missed like 20 games ,thus making kemba(westbrook jr) the starter and he's out there jacking not getting the team involved, gerald missed 11 gm's ( we all know what i think of him) and oh yeah we had boris as our starting center for the 1st half of the season .

the indiana pacers almost increased there wins from last year almost 30 games just by switching coaches so i dont know why it will be so hard for us to compete for the 8th when atlanta traded joe johnson,washington traded for a bunch of has-beens,and orlando may start the season with out howard and may not get nothing really in return , indiana may not get hibbert back and we can compete with the 76ers,bucks,and cavs for the final spots if need be ,so we have a chance.

[DashGlobal]

Hendo a top 20 player?!?!? smh

[gm in training]

You know, calling Henderson our "franchise player" is right to an extent, he IS our franchise player (at the moment), and that is why we went 7-59 last year.

I appreciate your analysis gmintraining, but I cannot understand how you watched our team last year and came to the conclusion that we were an 8 seed if we had stayed healthy. There is a reason we have been the laughing stock of the league for the past year, it comes with being the worst team ever.

Augustin has reached his potential. He can't play defense, struggles on the dribble drive, and if he's not hitting outside shots he is not an offensive threat. When he asks for more money than we're willing to pay, he's gone.

While I think Henderson could be a 20 ppg scorer (and I have serious doubts he will), he will never be a top 20 player, let alone a top 50.

Your prediction that Tyrus Thomas will post All-Star numbers reflects what everyone has hoped he would eventually do when he was drafted. However, he's 25 now, he hasn't matured, and adding 20 pounds isn't going to change the fact that he's a total head case and a biggest piece of sh*t on the team.

I'm glad you have remained optimistic, because optimism feels a lot better than the hopelessness I feel, but your analysis is completely off base. You're a romantic, and that's great, they're some of the best people to be around, but when analyzing the Charlotte Bobcats the only way to do it is to be realistic and honest.

first silas was a horrible coach , he had the team playing with no direction , it was damn near like he just threw the ball in the middle of the court and say play. there was no pick and rolls, screen play,he didn't draw up any plays for us to be effective.yes i think we could of been a different team last year without the injuries. corey maggette was in the top 5 free throw attempts(7 a game) so we lost a balanced player for half of the year,tyrus missed our first 11 games with an injury and when he came back he was playing at sf(out of position) ,bismack or byron didn't become part of the rotation till mid-season, augustin missed like 20 games ,thus making kemba(westbrook jr) the starter and he's out there jacking ,not getting the team involved, gerald missed 11 gm's ( we all know what i think of him) and oh yeah we had boris as our starting center for the 1st half of the season .

the indiana pacers almost increased there wins from last year almost 30 games just by switching coaches so i dont know why it will be so hard for us to compete for the 8th when atlanta traded joe johnson,washington traded for a bunch of has-beens,and orlando may start the season with out howard and may not get nothing really in return , indiana may not get hibbert back and we can compete with the 76ers,bucks,and cavs for the final spots if need be ,so we have a chance.

[Toocool]

Enough flaming of the OP.
He has his opinion, and has stated it.
No need to act like a bunch of dickheads just because he has a different opinion and is optimistic.

Enough fire on the flames, keep it clean or I'll shut this thread quicker than Ziggy can undo a bra. :paddle: