Don't throw in the towel on this season Before it even starts!!

[Charlotteisthebest]

This is something that is important and needs to be addressed on this forum, I feel to many of the fans here want to just throw in the towel on this season in order to get a high draft pick and develop young talent ect. ect. ect.

As bad as the Bobcats franchise has been, we should a least give ourselves the best chance of winning up until the All Star break, its a long season, if things have already gone south by the mid-season point then we should start focusing on the future, but I just hate the concept of throwing in the towel before our guys are even given a chance to go out and see what they can do in the beginning of a new season.

I say make a run at a good year and if by the All Star break things are not going our way, go with plan B and look to the future! ;)

Cheers and go Bobcats!!!

[Mustachio]

No one is throwing in the towel, but the team will start and give extensive minutes to young guys, including the terrible Bismack Biyombo. That is the plan. this has already discussed at length in the "improve ourselves out of top 5 pick" thread.

[KGE]

I think the team should play hard and win as many games as possible. It stunk last year watching the games and I am sure it was worse for the players. The team needs to play hard every night and always try to win.

[notdeadyet]

AMEN!
Anyone suggesting "tanking" to coach Dunlap would get invited on a nice l-o-n-g run up into the mountains, where they'd get left... He was brought here to develop these guys, and the ones who've been working with him in Summer League are ALREADY showing impressive improvements in their games. IF we stay relatively healthy and the guys not in Summer League buy into Dunlap's style once exposed to it, we will surprise more than a few "talking heads" this season.

[enigmaboy89]

Yea I agree with giving the team a chance to play hard this upcoming season. I do not think that MJ wants another horrible season where he will look bad. Dunlap needs to work long and hard each day with the players, I am sure a good result will come out of it. I am not expecting the team to head into the playoffs, but at least be not far from. 500 when the season ends and not be the worst team in the league again.

[walkerisai]

Remember the east is very weak ant the bottom of the League!! Dunlap will get these guys to play! The lazyness and lack of drive we saw last year will not happen this year. We will be fighting for the #8 seed this year!!!!! Watch and see!!!

[SWedd523]

Nope. I want the #1 pick.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

I am not sure what if anything to take from what has happened thus far into the Summer League. I have far too often seen guys like Othello Hunter, Byron Mullens and MKG fall apart when faced with better skilled players in the regular season of the NBA. As far as the team accomplishments, teams in the Summer League are not nearly what we see in the regular season.

I hate to be a downer but we should not get too excited about the potential of this team for this season. We have made some basically minor improvements so we should also not expect to see more than minor improvements as a team this upcoming season. I am keeping my expectations of this season realistic by my thinking. I feel a twelve to fifteen game improvement is a realistic expectation and anything else would be a real surprise. What I feel we can expect is a team that will not quit on their coach and will play it's asses off most every night. We will see players individually improve as well as see the team improve over the course of the season. That is all any of us could ask for. We had better hope we do not make the playoffs this season or for that matter come really close to doing so. That would only hamper this teams future despite a good present.

[ND22]

I haven't thrown in the towel. I fully expect us to triple our win total from last year.

[spectre]

Reality of the situation, in a nutshell.

The difference (and what we can hang our hat on) is that this group will bust their asses every game...the coach will demand it. They'll also have a plan of attack. That's what is going to make the upcoming season so much better than the last one.

[gm in training]

Reality of the situation, in a nutshell.

The difference (and what we can hang our hat on) is that this group will bust their asses every game...the coach will demand it. They'll also have a plan of attack. That's what is going to make the upcoming season so much better than the last one.


1.heat
2.bulls
3.nets
4.pacers
5.knicks
6.open
7.open
8.open

honestly we arent that bad. we can beat out cleveland ,and cleveland only off-season acquisitions was zeller,waiter(looks like he'll be 240 in 2yrs).despite wall being a good player , the wizards only have 1 1/2 legit scorers beal and crawford cause ariza sucks,okeafor ok big man,and nene plays like a sf. the bucks talent is maybe lgs worst but they may be the best coached team in the nba because they play for an playoff spot every year. philly lost their top scorer in lou and they have no post play(lost brand),so it may be hard to duplicate their success.detroit is ass but monroe may be an all-star type player.the knicks have two scorers who both don't create for others and don't fit within the team. atlanta lost an all-star without an decent no.2 back-up plan.orlando looks like they will be dwightless without no real compensation at season start.toronto may be ok now that they added a good pg and a starting sf.celtic's kg and pierce can't play at a high-level forever and losing allen will lose em like 6 games.

we have a chance

[SWedd523]

1.heat
2.bulls
3.nets
4.pacers
5.knicks
6.open
7.open
8.open

honestly we arent that bad. we can beat out cleveland ,and cleveland only off-season acquisitions was zeller,waiter(looks like he'll be 240 in 2yrs).despite wall being a good player , the wizards only have 1 1/2 legit scorers beal and crawford cause ariza sucks,okeafor ok big man,and nene plays like a sf. the bucks talent is maybe lgs worst but they may be the best coached team in the nba because they play for an playoff spot every year. philly lost their top scorer in lou and they have no post play(lost brand),so it may be hard to duplicate their success.detroit is ass but monroe may be an all-star type player.the knicks have two scorers who both don't create for others and don't fit within the team. atlanta lost an all-star without an decent no.2 back-up plan.orlando looks like they will be dwightless without no real compensation at season start.toronto may be ok now that they added a good pg and a starting sf.celtic's kg and pierce can't play at a high-level forever and losing allen will lose em like 6 games.

we have a chance

We have a chance to do what? Get swept in the first round again?

Yeah, no thanks

[gm in training]

We have a chance to do what? Get swept in the first round again?

Yeah, no thanks


let you tell it ,they should form a bcs type championship system because playoffs are irrelevant

[westbrook08]

Yeah, well here's the real deal.No one one is giving up on this season.We're just being realistic.Most of the older people on this forum have watched the bobcats build from the first day they existed and watched the hornets do it before that.It's not that we don't want to the team to win or not play hard,we've just been through this before and know that even with talent it takes time to win.This is not the nfl.Nba teams do not generally come out of nowhere.You have to fall down and get back up before you can succeed is this league.And no offense,because we like having new fans on board.But to all you newbies who have been here for about 2 cups of coffee right now, you need to go back and read the history of this forum before you start telling people what they think and what needs to happen on here!

[Zoolander]

I'm with SWedd. I want as high a pick as possible. I don't think we have to worry about that to be honest. We're gonna be horrible again this year. It's good and fun to have optimsim, but reality is a cruel SOB...

[TheBeagle]

I think the team should play hard and win as many games as possible. It stunk last year watching the games and I am sure it was worse for the players. The team needs to play hard every night and always try to win. They'll do all this and still have a top 5 pick. Everything according to plan.

[JohnnyTimmons]

Are we really worried about this. We can literally win 4 times as many games and still pick lottery. 4x improvement is good.

[Veteran_Picksetter]

I want 20 wins and then Shabazz Muhammed. That's a nice balance.

[Black]

Yeah, I didn't weigh in on this earlier, because I think it's been said before over and over. No one wants to tank next year, but realistically, we aren't going to be very good. 25 wins would be awesome progress, and we would still add a top tier talent. I want us to play well, but I would be pissed if we broke the bank for some mid level talent.

Using the OKC model, they won 31 the year before they drafter Durant, 20 his rookie year, and 23 the year after that. Why? Because they knew that building gradually through the draft was the best way for them to become competitive.

Again, nobody wants us to lose on purpose, and Dunlap sure as hell won't ever let that happen. So enjoy the significant improvement next year, but don't get frustrated when we're near the top of the lottery again.

[adam187]

you know, somebody else said not to throw in the towel either.

RIP Apollo Creed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnqZl_blT7E&feature=related

On a side note, I refuse to believe that this is not exactly Biz and Mullens' relationship.

[Icky Thump]

Yeah, I didn't weigh in on this earlier, because I think it's been said before over and over. No one wants to tank next year, but realistically, we aren't going to be very good. 25 wins would be awesome progress, and we would still add a top tier talent. I want us to play well, but I would be pissed if we broke the bank for some mid level talent.

Using the OKC model, they won 31 the year before they drafter Durant, 20 his rookie year, and 23 the year after that. Why? Because they knew that building gradually through the draft was the best way for them to become competitive.

Again, nobody wants us to lose on purpose, and Dunlap sure as hell won't ever let that happen. So enjoy the significant improvement next year, but don't get frustrated when we're near the top of the lottery again.


^^^^^^This^^^^^^


I think the main thing is that some of the newer fans on the board (which is great) want to see us win soon. Most of the long time (sufferers) guys here understand that we don't need to pick up mediocre at best pieces just to get another 8th seed. We were so bad last year because that 8th seed/playoff sweep crap wasn't going to cut it and we went into rebuild mode.

I think everyone wants to see the team be very successful but we need to let our young team progress and I think with another season we can add more quality talent from the draft and go after a big free agent next year. Then we can start to dream big.

[cltblkhscoach]

Just for the hell of it, let's say we're really thinking we can get the 8th seed. Here's my predictions on the East based on everything so far:

1. Miami
2. Indiana
3. Brooklyn
4. New York
5. Chicago
6. Philadelphia
7. Boston
8. Milwaukee

Just missing: Cleveland, Detroit

Bottom Feeders: Atlanta, Orlando, Toronto, Washington

I think those top 7 are pretty much locks. The 8th seed is between Milwaukee, Cleveland, and Detroit. Are we better than those 4 bottom feeder teams would be the question? Honestly, no I don't think we are. We may be better than Orlando, Atlanta, and maybe Toronto. But that's it.

This is reality. We are not sniffing the playoffs next year, and I'm fine with it. It's been proven that smart building with high draft picks and fiscal responsibility is the way to win in a small market. I just want to see competitive basketball and for us to steal a win or two against the big markets. 20 wins is my expectation, anything more is icing on the cake.

[QC Thundercats]

I think some people are looking at this question the wrong way. It isn't whether we should tank or not, or whether we hope for the team to be successful next year and shoot for the playoffs.

As a basketball fan, the ultimate goal is to win a championship. Short of that, you at least want to be in the discussion, to have a legitimate chance at a championship. And as fans of this team, of course this is what all of us want.

But to get there, the process is more a game of chess, not checkers. If you're too eager to try to win as quick as possible, you may experience early success in taking more pieces and having a lead in the game. But the true chess masters know that precise planning and positioning is whats going to win in the end. So what if they sacrifice a rook or bishop along the way. At the end, the player who was in win-now mode and couldn't exhibit the requisite patience will be stuck and won't have any more good moves to take. But the master, who prepared for the moment and was able to set up the board precisely how he planned, will swoop in and capitalize on all his prior calculations for the checkmate.

Overeager teams like the Knicks continuously blew their load trying to win too quick. The Magic had their star, then lost patience in building a contender by going after all the high priced free agents, and never made the finals again. The Hawks are the definition of mediocrity because they decided their best move was with Joe Johnson, and didn't take advantage of other situations that were given to them (Chris Paul). This is also why I feel the Nets are destined to lose.

The Thunder and Spurs are always cited as the chessmasters, but the Bulls also built the right way. Once they got their star, they smartly put in pieces around him so that, until Rose's injury, they were in the discussion as a championship contender and had the best record in the league.

So of course we want to watch a competitive team next year, but we should also understand its not time to go for the checkmate yet. Plus, most professional coaches and players are too competitive to tank, so we shouldn't have to worry about that when we watch the games. That strategy comes from the front office in who they sign for competitive balance, and how they manage cap space for when its time to make a move.

[westbrook08]

Just for the hell of it, let's say we're really thinking we can get the 8th seed. Here's my predictions on the East based on everything so far:

1. Miami
2. Indiana
3. Brooklyn
4. New York
5. Chicago
6. Philadelphia
7. Boston
8. Milwaukee

Just missing: Cleveland, Detroit

Bottom Feeders: Atlanta, Orlando, Toronto, Washington

I think those top 7 are pretty much locks. The 8th seed is between Milwaukee, Cleveland, and Detroit. Are we better than those 4 bottom feeder teams would be the question? Honestly, no I don't think we are. We may be better than Orlando, Atlanta, and maybe Toronto. But that's it.

This is reality. We are not sniffing the playoffs next year, and I'm fine with it. It's been proven that smart building with high draft picks and fiscal responsibility is the way to win in a small market. I just want to see competitive basketball and for us to steal a win or two against the big markets. 20 wins is my expectation, anything more is icing on the cake.

If you think boston is gonna be a 7 seed then i need the number for your weed hook up! lol. They made the conference finals last last year and had one of the best off seasons of anyone.

[notdeadyet]

As will always be the case, staying relatively healthy is paramount. IMO, to play Dunlap's style will require a deep bench, as it's a long season. Some may feel satisfied with 20 W's, but frankly I think we're better than that. IF, and this is a big IF, the players maintain their defensive intensity and continue to absorb Dunlap's lessons throughout the season as they have done in Summer League, we MIGHT just squeeze out 30 W's.
The MAJORITY of our starters are already practicing and playing there under Dunlap, learning his system, and he is getting to know them and their capabilities first-hand. It's the equivalent of an EXTENDED Training Camp, and Dunlap knows this. From what I've seen and heard, he is taking his job very seriously and using every edge he can find. This could get our training camp off to a fast start, which would carry over to the start of regular season.
As far as the playoffs, even in the East, I don't think that's realistic.

[SJackson1]

i think we can target 25 wins this year becasue of our depth roster, we have scring power in Hendo, Walker, Gordon, Sessions, Mullens, MKG. Our defense will be a big improvment with Biyombo getting a full pre season, Haywood, MKG, Taylor. The key is to keep the defensive intensity day in day out throughout the season and then we will get some wins in the bank !.

[MKGBandwagon]

A triple of our 7 wins would be just great! Good draft pick right there :)

[SJackson1]

i think we will suprise alot of people next season with the amount of wins we will have by the end of the season. Dunlap has got the team playing a fast tempo on both ends of the court and hopefully that continues !

[Adam42R]

Just for the hell of it, let's say we're really thinking we can get the 8th seed. Here's my predictions on the East based on everything so far:

1. Miami
2. Indiana
3. Brooklyn
4. New York
5. Chicago
6. Philadelphia
7. Boston
8. Milwaukee

Just missing: Cleveland, Detroit

Bottom Feeders: Atlanta, Orlando, Toronto, Washington

I think those top 7 are pretty much locks. The 8th seed is between Milwaukee, Cleveland, and Detroit. Are we better than those 4 bottom feeder teams would be the question? Honestly, no I don't think we are. We may be better than Orlando, Atlanta, and maybe Toronto. But that's it.

This is reality. We are not sniffing the playoffs next year, and I'm fine with it. It's been proven that smart building with high draft picks and fiscal responsibility is the way to win in a small market. I just want to see competitive basketball and for us to steal a win or two against the big markets. 20 wins is my expectation, anything more is icing on the cake.

I think you greatly overvalue the state of the Brooklyn Nets and undervalue the state of the Celtics and Wizards.

As for how well we'll stack up against the lower-middle tier teams, we don't know how the chemistry of the - ahem - vets and new kids will be, especially along w/ our new staff. Where most of us agree that both a 20-25 win season would be an accomplishment AND very achievable, what we don't know is where that places us in the grand scheme of things (Eastern Conf. wise).

What we should however all now agree upon is that the concept of outright "tanking" in the NFL sense guarantees us very little come ping-pong ball time.

[cltblkhscoach]

At some point father time wins, and the Celtics are due for that to happen. Pierce and Garnett aren't getting younger, and Jason Terry helps, but I don't see them running at the top of the East, no matter what Rondo does for them. Their schedule is going to be much tougher in the Atlantic with Philly, Brooklyn, and NY no longer pushovers. I still think they can be dangerous in the playoffs though. They can be in the 5-7 range, but they're not Top 4 in my opinion.

I'm a big believer in Avery Johnson, he's a great regular season coach. But in the playoffs he's been a victim of bad matchups - hence the loss to Golden State as a 1 seed.

I think Washington is the best of the bottom feeders, and they could join that "just missing" group if Beal turns out to be a ROY candidate.

[Charlotteisthebest]

NBA free agency: A handful of players still looking for homes
By Sean Deveney Sporting News

Carl Landry. Because he is not that tall, Landry has been overlooked during his career. And in that career, he has averaged 12.1 points in 24.9 minutes on 53.5 percent shooting.

Brandon Rush. The Golden State Warriors can match offers on Rush, and likely will do so. He shot 45.2 percent from the 3-point line last year.

Delonte West. Filling in for Jason Kidd and coming off the bench, West had a good year for the Dallas Mavericks. He is still dogged by his off-court reputation, otherwise, he’d be signed by now.

Courtney Lee. His ability to defend and capable performance as a scorer has gotten him plenty of attention since the Rockets made him an unrestricted free agent. Don’t rule out a return to Houston.

Shannon Brown. Brown is a pretty consistent combo guard off the bench, plays good defense and can make perimeter shots.

Randy Foye. Foye presents a dilemma—he is not good enough to be a starter, but he is terrible when asked to come off the bench. Other than that, he’s a keeper.

Nate Robinson. This is what happens when you spend the first few years of your career driving coaches batty—even when you actually do have a pretty good year heading into free agency, as Robinson did, no one wants you.

Big and young

Andray Blatche. He was a bad egg in the locker room and was amnestied by the Washington Wizards. But he is only 25 and has talent. He's worth a risk.

Robin Lopez. He is a restricted free agent, and even with Marcin Gortat on hand as the starter, the Phoenix Suns are likely to keep him.

Jordan Hill. Hill bolstered his stock late in the year and in the playoffs with the L.A. Lakers, and is trying to cash in. The Minnesota Timberwolves remain a viable option.

Greg Stiemsma. He’s another Timberwolves option. Stiemsma is not that young (he was a 26-year-old rookie last year), but he is big and adept shot-blocker.

What you see is what you get

Leandro Barbosa. Still a very effective (if erratic) combo guard off the bench, and would fit in nicely with a contender.

Carlos Delfino. He’s a solid pro, though he should not be a starter, as he was in Milwaukee last year.

Jonny Flynn. Flynn has never gotten back on track after suffering a hip injury in 2010. He was not particularly impressive last year, but he is four years removed from being the No. 6 pick in the draft. So someone (Cleveland?) will roll the dice.

Mickael Pietrus. He plays tough D, but he went AWOL offensively late in the year for the Celtics. Still can knock down 3s, though.

You again?

Tracy McGrady. McGrady was a versatile bench contributor for the Atlanta Hawks last year, and can probably fill that kind of role for a few more years.

Michael Redd. Overall, last year’s numbers seem to show that Redd has no business being back in the NBA. But look closer—once he got his legs back, he was actually pretty good, averaging 11.4 points on 40.5 percent 3-point shooting in 15 April games.

Derek Fisher. If not for 229 games worth of playoff experience, the 37-year-old Fisher probably would not be in the league any longer.

Gilbert Arenas. His stint in Memphis did not reinvigorate his career. But he did not torpedo the locker room, either, and that might be all he needed to do to get another shot.

[westbrook08]

At some point father time wins, and the Celtics are due for that to happen. Pierce and Garnett aren't getting younger, and Jason Terry helps, but I don't see them running at the top of the East, no matter what Rondo does for them. Their schedule is going to be much tougher in the Atlantic with Philly, Brooklyn, and NY no longer pushovers. I still think they can be dangerous in the playoffs though. They can be in the 5-7 range, but they're not Top 4 in my opinion.

I'm a big believer in Avery Johnson, he's a great regular season coach. But in the playoffs he's been a victim of bad matchups - hence the loss to Golden State as a 1 seed.

I think Washington is the best of the bottom feeders, and they could join that "just missing" group if Beal turns out to be a ROY candidate.

Really? Boston added fab melo,jared sullinger,jason terry, and are still in the mix for courntey lee and delonte west, plus they getting jeff green and avery bradley back healthy.Garnett and pierce have plenty of help now.It's not just about them.This is a much better team than a year ago without question.And i hate the celtics! But it's true.

[Black]

The Celtics are going to be good.

[gm in training]

i see alot of contradiction goin around here. people are saying that they want the bobcats to tank the season if their not a championship team but in other threads where suppose to be following the thunders pedigree which has been built through the draft. the thunder has yet to win a championship so why are following their team concept,why not bostons ,miami,or mavericks? myself alone i want us to fight for a playoff and i think we are a 7th seed team.i challenged alot of ppl in the "Have we improved ourselves out of a top 5 pick?" thread and people really felt that being an competitive team isn't successful unless u win a ring. i don't think success is always judge by championships(added bonus)but if your relevant,competitive,and respected.our team at this point isn't built for another lottery season. our off-season acquisitions shown that we are thinking playoffs . sessions(will start) is a good veteran point,gordon veteran scorer,and haywood a veteran big who may start. if you are tanking a season and developing talent you don't acquire veteran help , you dump contracts and free up space in the process alot like the magic are,clippers 09-10(they traded randolph and camby,and the year after baron davis),new jersey last year, i got alot of examples plus for the past 2 decades their only been two teams who successfully built their whole team through drafting and minor acquisitions ,the spurs and thunders.so, i dont think that process is what we should follow nor do i think we are following that process i think jordan is doing jordan.

[SWedd523]

I'd rather finish this season with the best chance to get Shabazz than squeak into the playoffs and get bounced in four.


It would be much better for the franchise's long term viability

[gm in training]

I'd rather finish this season with the best chance to get Shabazz than squeak into the playoffs and get bounced in four.


It would be much better for the franchise's long term viability exactly what you said "chances to get shabazz".why not make the palyoffs and tweek out team from their like normal teams do , lottery seasons only result in losing millions of dollars,undesired place to lure good players, coaches lose jobs, players get traded or let go for what? a chance to get a unproven player who may not be nba ready ,injury prone,or even worst! we may not get . not a good buisness move unless your a team who has multi playoffs apparences or a strong fan base that understands ,which we do not have.not a good buisness move.this isn't a video game, there are actual repercussions .

[Whiz Kid]

We're not making the playoffs. So what good does it do to miss the playoff but only get a pick in the mid-first round? Thinking ahead. If you're not gonna make playoffs then you want top 5 at least.

[SWedd523]

exactly what you said "chances to get shabazz".why not make the palyoffs and tweek out team from their like normal teams do , lottery seasons only result in losing millions of dollars,undesired place to lure good players, coaches loss jobs, players get traded or let go for what? a chance to get a unproven player who may not be nba ready ,injury prone,or even worst we may not get . not a good buisness move unless your a team who has multi playoffs apparences or a strong fan base that understands ,which we do not have.not a good buisness move
So many fallacies and generalizations in one place I don't even know where to start

[spectre]

The Bucks' board on RGM would be a good place for some research into a team that is in mediocre purgatory.

[Charlotteisthebest]

We're not making the playoffs. So what good does it do to miss the playoff but only get a pick in the mid-first round? Thinking ahead. If you're not gonna make playoffs then you want top 5 at least.

Are you a fortune teller if so please tell the winning lottery numbers!!!

Look all I am saying is hold your judgement until the All Star Break, if you can't do that then I think you have become so use to losing that you now desire it in your blood and can think of nothing else haha ;)

[Mustachio]

Are you a fortune teller if so please tell the winning lottery numbers!!!

Look all I am saying is hold your judgement until the All Star Break, if you can't do that then I think you have become so use to losing that you now desire it in your blood and can think of nothing else haha ;)


Even if we make the playoffs we aren't threatening anyone... and I don't need a crystal ball for that. We have a lot of work to do and this team is so far from being truly championship competitive that this conversation is moot... but since you insist. If we did manage to win 38 games and slide into a weak 8th spot... who does that help? No one, we get embarrassed on a bigger stage and meanwhile lose any shot at a lottery bid, and a player that will help us go further than 8th seed sacrificial lamb.

We are saying that making the 8th seed, or falling just shy of the 9th-10th seed will actually hurt us more than help us. Making the 8th seed in the East is really not that hard, but thats not where we wanna be.

[Whiz Kid]

Even if we make the playoffs we aren't threatening anyone... and I don't need a crystal ball for that. We have a lot of work to do and this team is so far from being truly championship competitive that this conversation is moot... but since you insist. If we did manage to win 38 games and slide into a weak 8th spot... who does that help? No one, we get embarrassed on a bigger stage and meanwhile lose any shot at a lottery bid, and a player that will help us go further than 8th seed sacrificial lamb.

We are saying that making the 8th seed, or falling just shy of the 9th-10th seed will actually hurt us more than help us. Making the 8th seed in the East is really not that hard, but thats not where we wanna be.

THANK YOU! Only thing getting 8th seed does is give us more years of being mediocre. We want to build in the draft. Not get swept by the Heat in the first round of the playoffs then land the number 13 pick. (Hows that for your crystal ball?)

[Black]

THANK YOU! Only thing getting 8th seed does is give us more years of being mediocre. We want to build in the draft. Not get swept by the Heat in the first round of the playoffs then land the number 13 pick. (Hows that for your crystal ball?)

Pretty foggy, getting swept by the Heat would land us the 15th pick at best.

[Whiz Kid]

Pretty foggy, getting swept by the Heat would land us the 15th pick at best.

True. The point is, we shouldn't be worried about making the playoffs next year.

[gm in training]

Even if we make the playoffs we aren't threatening anyone... and I don't need a crystal ball for that. We have a lot of work to do and this team is so far from being truly championship competitive that this conversation is moot... but since you insist. If we did manage to win 38 games and slide into a weak 8th spot... who does that help? No one, we get embarrassed on a bigger stage and meanwhile lose any shot at a lottery bid, and a player that will help us go further than 8th seed sacrificial lamb.

We are saying that making the 8th seed, or falling just shy of the 9th-10th seed will actually hurt us more than help us. Making the 8th seed in the East is really not that hard, but thats not where we wanna be. wow wiz kid and mustachio that is crazy that ya think like that. making the 8th seed gives us a chance just like the other 7 teams , i mean where is the common sense at. anything can happen in the playoffs just like how philly(8th seed) beat the bulls(1 seed) , i know it was without rose and thats the beauty of it . we can play the heat with out lebron, or indiana without hibbert basically if philly had fans like us ,it would of been milwaukee playing the rose-less bulls instead.

[Mustachio]

wow wiz kid and mustachio that is crazy that ya think like that. making the 8th seed gives us a chance just like the other 7 teams , i mean where is the common sense at. anything can happen in the playoffs just like how philly(8th seed) beat the bulls(1 seed) , i know it was without rose and thats the beauty of it . we can play the heat with out lebron, or indiana without hibbert basically if philly had fans like us ,it would of been milwaukee playing the rose-less bulls instead.


The Lebron-less Heat would beat the Bobcats in 4 games by an average of 15. We aren't on that level yet and this isnt a Disney movie.

[Whiz Kid]

wow wiz kid and mustachio that is crazy that ya think like that. making the 8th seed gives us a chance just like the other 7 teams , i mean where is the common sense at. anything can happen in the playoffs just like how philly(8th seed) beat the bulls(1 seed) , i know it was without rose and thats the beauty of it . we can play the heat with out lebron, or indiana without hibbert basically if philly had fans like us ,it would of been milwaukee playing the rose-less bulls instead.

We are not in a position to contend for anything right now. I don't see what is hard to understand about that. Give it 1 maybe 2 more years of gaining assets and acquiring and developing talent then we are ready to make a deep playoff run. I like to be optimistic but you can't shy away from reality and probability.

[gm in training]

The Lebron-less Heat would beat the Bobcats in 4 games by an average of 15. We aren't on that level yet and this isnt a Disney movie.

tell that to the philly fans or better yet golden state vs mavericks '07 playoffs

[SWedd523]

ahh, blind optimism.


Takes me back to when Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny were real

[gm in training]

ahh, blind optimism.


Takes me back to when Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny were real

could of fooled me

[SWedd523]

could of fooled me
That seems like a relatively easy task

[gm in training]

We are not in a position to contend for anything right now. I don't see what is hard to understand about that. Give it 1 maybe 2 more years of gaining assets and acquiring and developing talent then we are ready to make a deep playoff run. I like to be optimistic but you can't shy away from reality and probability.

listen everybody,there is one champion every year not 2 or 3. so, at the end of the day if we are the 8th seed who gets beat by the 1st seed or okc lost to the heat its all the same. so, why not make the playoffs regardless. i bet okc's franchise or fans don't look at last year season as a failure and i bet the won't switch places with no team other then the heat ,so chill wit championship or bust because that isn't realistic. i bet they gained even more exposure , fans, revenue gross(tickets,merchandise,tv deals, etc...), and most important playoff experience , so i bet it was a win-win for both teams(okc/mia) or other teams who made the playoffs(except dallas,or lakers who were built for championships).

[SWedd523]

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4e618a1ceab8eabd74000000/texas-longhorn-gif.jpg

[Whiz Kid]

You can't compare Current Charlotte to Current OKC. OKC is basically done with their building stages, developed their stars, and is now only looking to contend. Which one of those three have we done? None of them. Realistically, we're not in a position to make any kind of playoff run. I still don't get why that is a hard fact to accept.

[gm in training]

You can't compare Current Charlotte to Current OKC. OKC is basically done with their building stages, developed their stars, and is now only looking to contend. Which one of those three have we done? None of them. Realistically, we're not in a position to make any kind of playoff run. I still don't get why that is a hard fact to accept.

the thunder didn't go straight to finals? fun fact the thunder had their core group and was an 8th seed against the '10 lakers, in ''11 they got bounced by the mavs, and '12 the heat . im still not getting your point. so, im guessing that after '10 they should of tanked the up coming season so that they can become lottery candidates ....sarcasm lol

[Whiz Kid]

the thunder didn't go straight to finals? fun fact the thunder had their core group and was an 8th seed at one time ,against the '10 lakers, in ''11 they got bounced by the mavs, and '12 the heat . im still not getting your point

So you are basically saying that we have a core that is as good as the Thunder's is? That's the only thing I'm getting from what you're saying.

[JohnnyTimmons]

I want to make it to the finals every year too. I want us to try hard for that every night. There are moves cho could have made this offseason that would have guaranteed we got to the playoffs and competed. He didn't make those because that would jeopardize us monetarily, through the draft lottery, and with roster spots. Without flexibility with those things it would be hard to keep improving and to make/win the playoffs for multiple years down the road.
That is what rebuilding is. This isn't tanking, though. We have this team now and our goal for this season is #1. Always. We only make ourselves worse if it helps us long term to be better. Something like losing Sesessions and Gordon for like.... I dunno something obviously good and young, or with can't miss draft picks.

[SWedd523]

the thunder didn't go straight to finals? fun fact the thunder had their core group and was an 8th seed against the '10 lakers, in ''11 they got bounced by the mavs, and '12 the heat . im still not getting your point. so, im guessing that after '10 they should of tanked the up coming season so that they can become lottery candidates ....sarcasm lol
How did they get their core group?

fun fact by winning 31, 20, then 23 games in a three year span.


But let's shoot for that 8th seed!

[Whiz Kid]

How did they get their core group?

Thank you. This is the EXACT point I was making.

[adam187]

BCP Psychology 101:

GM in Training - Id
Spectre - Ego
Swedd - Super-Ego
Beagle - The Beard

Based on this Wikipedia article I glossed over: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego

[TheBeagle]

This is one of my favorite threads in a while....and for all the wrong reasons.

[gm in training]

How did they get their core group?

fun fact by winning 31, 20, then 23 games in a three year span.


But let's shoot for that 8th seed!


the disagreement, is that i feel that we can build off an 8th seed team and make corrections from there ,on the other hand ya are saying that isn't realistic we should tank the year for the lottery. i was using the thunder reference(the mantra everyone is using) stating that they was a lottery team and a year later an 8th seed team and made corrections (-green,+perkins,ibaka as a starter and etc) shortly after and became the team they are. so ya lost the whole concept of what i was saying. teams don't go from obscurity to elite over nite ,and i was explaining that the bobcats can use the playoffs as an tool to improve, but this is what all sports teams do ,so why are ya acting like progression isn't possible or that the word dont exist.

point proven again

[Whiz Kid]

the disagreement, is that i feel that we can build off an 8th seed team and make corrections from there ,on the other hand ya are saying that isn't realistic we should tank the year for the lottery. i was using the thunder reference(the mantra everyone is using) stating that they was a lottery team and a year later an 8th seed team and made corrections (-green,+perkins,ibaka as a starter and etc) shortly after and became the team they are. so ya lost the whole concept of what i was saying. teams don't go from obscurity to elite over nite ,and i was explaining that the bobcats can use the playoffs as an tool to improve, but this is what all sports teams do ,so why are ya acting like progression isn't possible or that the word dont exist.

point proven again

What was their records and draft positions to get their "Big 3"

Once they ACTUALLY got KD, Russy, and Harden they started aiming at the playoffs.

Point Proven Again.

[SWedd523]

the disagreement, is that i feel that we can build off an 8th seed team and make corrections from there ,on the other hand ya are saying that isn't realistic we should tank the year for the lottery. i was using the thunder reference(the mantra everyone is using) stating that they was a lottery team and a year later an 8th seed team and made corrections (-green,+perkins,ibaka as a starter and etc) shortly after and became the team they are. so ya lost the whole concept of what i was saying. teams don't go from obscurity to elite over nite ,and i was explaining that the bobcats can use the playoffs as an tool to improve, but this is what all sports teams do ,so why are ya acting like progression isn't possible or that the word dont exist.

point proven again


The Thunder won 31 games, trading for a pick, and drafted Kevin Durant with the #2 overall pick.

With Kevin Durant and Jeff Green on the roster, they won 20 games and drafted Russell Westbrook with the #4 overall pick

With Kevin FN Durant, Jeff Green and Russell Westbrook on the roster, they won 23 games and drafted James Harden with the #3 pick (and Serge Ibaka with #24)



It wasn't until after they were terrible for three years and collected a 2nd pick, 3rd pick, 4th pick, and 5th pick that they started to compete. You want us, on the other hand, to go straight for the playoffs after one year. Now I want you to sit still (can you do that?) and think about that. The Thunder picked up three of the best young players on the planet before they made any noise. They were "a lottery team and a year later an 8th seed" only in a semantics way because they were in "be bad for high draft picks" mode for 4 years to get to that point.

In other words, you have no earthly idea what you're talking about.... a point you've proven over and over again

[gm in training]

What was their records and draft positions to get their "Big 3"

Once they ACTUALLY got KD, Russy, and Harden they started aiming at the playoffs.

Point Proven Again.


um..... nobody knew okc had a big 3 before they became the big 3, because they knocked westbrook as a project tweener who really didn't have court vision to play pg or wasn't a good shooter(still not) , and they said harden was a safe pick with not much upside and not an athlete. in the past 4yrs we have had 4 lottery picks hendo,kemba,biz,and mkg . how do u know we dont have a potential 2 stars or big 3 two years later.whats funny is that ya is talking like ya knew the thunder was becoming an elite team as far as 5 years ago(since they drafted kd) . not to mention the thunder drafted kevin durant(a megastar) and his type happens at least 3 times a decade. so to build around an star like that is a gift from the basketball gods. so, to tank a season we better be looking for the next lebron,rose or durant because its pointless.so if we make the 8th seed like the thunder does it mean we are making progress with our draft picks especially if 2 or more are starting, yes or no?....trick question

damn im good

[Zoolander]

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4e618a1ceab8eabd74000000/texas-longhorn-gif.jpg

I don't know what that's for but damn that made me lol hard!

[dnbman]

This argument has been done to death.

Of course it is possible to improve from any point in a team's evolution. The defending champions arguably got better this season.

However, it is awfully difficult to acquire superstar level talent unless you get high draft picks or offer an alluring destination and situation for free agents, which we don't seem to offer compared to the likes of LA, NY, Miami, etc.

Let's face it: nobody likes losing. The prospect of being in the NBA basement another season stinks. However, it is very unlikely that we become a championship contender without having at least a couple of seasons of strong draft picks enter the fold. The way to get those draft picks is to finish with a lot of losses.

As I've said earlier, I believe there are ways to not be successful without "tanking" or intentionally losing games. Being conservative with assets and having a very young team is usually a recipe for short term losing but long term success. It could be that our guys play their hardest and win 50 games. However, other teams are spending a lot more money trying to win a lot of games. Those teams will probably beat us, even if we play solid basketball. As such, we can be an unsuccessful team in the win column while still playing with pride. When the time is right, after establishing a strong core that is showing readiness for the next level, we go get the final pieces that will take us over the top.

[Whiz Kid]

So you're saying we spend many years striving for 8th seeds and getting knocked out of the first round of the playoffs and not have a chance for the lottery?

There's ALWAYS going to be a draft. Whether the player pans out or not is a different story. Building from trades and free agency is never a sure thing.

[gm in training]

So you're saying we spend many years striving for 8th seeds and getting knocked out of the first round of the playoffs and not have a chance for the lottery?

There's ALWAYS going to be a draft. Whether the player pans out or not is a different story. Building from trades and free agency is never a sure thing.

im saying no to tanking. no team tanks on pupose ; even though the colts got a.luck they fired everybody and everyone ,so that just goes to show nobody tanks.no you have it backwards, building through the draft is never a sure thing, trading and free agency is the only way to acquire sure or proven talent.thunder and spurs are the only teams to successfully build through the draft, but how has that method worked for majority of the lg that doesn't have a superstar to build around. there is about 10 superstars in the lg about 15-20 potential all-stars. there is 60 players in each draft multiple that by the past decade. the numbers don't look to good when you playing by percentages .

damn im good

[SWedd523]

So naive. Brings a tear to my eye

[SWedd523]

I don't know what that's for but damn that made me lol hard!
It was in response to a certain member's seemingly devout belief that hopping back on a treadmill will lead us to the promise land

[Charlotteisthebest]

1) To all the fans who want us to suck this year, just stop wasting your time and come back next summer ;)

2) To all the fans who want us to suck this year, you better hope if we do wind up with a high pick we don't draft Greg Oden 2.0 ;)

[Charlotteisthebest]

Go Bobcats, win this year!!!!!!!!!!!

[gm in training]

um..... nobody knew okc had a big 3 before they became the big 3, because they knocked westbrook as a project tweener who really didn't have court vision to play pg or wasn't a good shooter(still not) , and they said harden was a safe pick with not much upside and not an athlete. in the past 4yrs we have had 4 lottery picks hendo,kemba,biz,and mkg . how do u know we dont have a potential 2 stars or big 3 two years later.whats funny is that ya is talking like ya knew the thunder was becoming an elite team as far as 5 years ago(since they drafted kd) . not to mention the thunder drafted kevin durant(a megastar) and his type happens at least 3 times a decade. so to build around an star like that is a gift from the basketball gods. so, to tank a season we better be looking for the next lebron,rose or durant because its pointless.so if we make the 8th seed like the thunder does it mean we are making progress with our draft picks especially if 2 or more are starting, yes or no?....trick question

damn im good

[Whiz Kid]

im saying no to tanking. no team tanks on pupose ; even though the colts got a.luck they fired everybody and everyone ,so that just goes to show nobody tanks.no you have it backwards, building through the draft is never a sure thing, trading and free agency is the only way to acquire sure or proven talent.thunder and spurs are the only teams to successfully build through the draft, but how has that method worked for majority of the lg that doesn't have a superstar to build around. there is about 10 superstars in the lg about 15-20 potential all-stars. there is 60 players in each draft multiple that by the past decade. the numbers don't look to good when you playing by percentages .

damn im good

No...you're not good.

I'll stand corrected in my statements when a big star has an hour long special and says "I'm taking my talents to Queen City"

[Chef]

um..... nobody knew okc had a big 3 before they became the big 3, because they knocked westbrook as a project tweener who really didn't have court vision to play pg or wasn't a good shooter(still not) , and they said harden was a safe pick with not much upside and not an athlete. in the past 4yrs we have had 4 lottery picks hendo,kemba,biz,and mkg . how do u know we dont have a potential 2 stars or big 3 two years later.whats funny is that ya is talking like ya knew the thunder was becoming an elite team as far as 5 years ago(since they drafted kd) . not to mention the thunder drafted kevin durant(a megastar) and his type happens at least 3 times a decade. so to build around an star like that is a gift from the basketball gods. so, to tank a season we better be looking for the next lebron,rose or durant because its pointless.so if we make the 8th seed like the thunder does it mean we are making progress with our draft picks especially if 2 or more are starting, yes or no?....trick question

damn im good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-03vYYAjA

please stop now

[gm in training]

No...you're not good.

I'll stand corrected in my statements when a big star has an hour long special and says "I'm taking my talents to Queen City"

lebron alone earned cleveland a billion dollars ,so they got their use out of em. since lebron how many superstars(not all-stars) have been drafted. ask minne, the clippers before blake,portland,charlotte,wizards,knicks how the draft been treating em .like i said the only teams to build through the draft is okc,spurs and maybe pacers,but majority of the top tier teams either went through free agency or trading to build their team not the draft.

so out of 30 teams how many successfully drafted contenders?compared to teams via trade and free agency.

im too good

[SWedd523]

damn im good

http://dinfar.dk/wp-content/woo_custom/135-651.jpg

[SWedd523]

im too good
http://s3.socialvixen.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/Simple-Jack-Tropic-Thunder.jpg

[Chef]

http://dinfar.dk/wp-content/woo_custom/135-651.jpg

zig, we seriously need to start talking about a kids table.

[Whiz Kid]

lebron alone earned cleveland a billion dollars ,so they got their use out of em. since lebron how many superstars(not all-stars) have been drafted. ask minne, the clippers before blake,portland,charlotte,wizards,knicks how the draft been treating em .like i said the only teams to build through the draft is okc,spurs and maybe pacers,but majority of the top tier teams either went through free agency or trading to build their team not the draft.

so out of 30 teams how many successfully drafted contenders?compared to teams via trade and free agency.

im too good

You missed my point completely.

The draft is there ever year. Theres no guarantee that another team is going to accept a trade or theres no guarantee that a proven star in his prime is going to sign with us. Thats nothing but fact

[SWedd523]

zig, we seriously need to start talking about a kids table.
For me or....


Because I'm totally down for a happy meal

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/7/2010/06/fat-kits-eating-mcdonalds.jpg

No pickles though

[dnbman]

lebron alone earned cleveland a billion dollars ,so they got their use out of em. since lebron how many superstars(not all-stars) have been drafted. ask minne, the clippers before blake,portland,charlotte,wizards,knicks how the draft been treating em .like i said the only teams to build through the draft is okc,spurs and maybe pacers,but majority of the top tier teams either went through free agency or trading to build their team not the draft.

so out of 30 teams how many successfully drafted contenders?compared to teams via trade and free agency.

im too good

You really need to stop talking about how good you are. I mean, if you're sitting on the floor next to your master's chair and not barking at the doorbell, then maybe you're good. Otherwise, you just look ridiculous.

At any rate, in the last 30 years, about 10 teams have won championships, with the lion's share going to LA, Boston, Chicago, and San Antonio. The only four teams outside of those to win since 1990 are Houston, Miami, Dallas, and Detroit.

The point?

Aside from a handful of teams, it's very difficult to put together a championship team, no matter the strategy. The teams outside of LA and Boston (and recently, Miami) that have won typically drafted a superstar or two (Robinson/Duncan, Olajuwon, Dirk) and even the longtime contenders needed incredible draft picks to stay relevant. (LA with Kobe, Boston with young talent and picks traded for Allen and KG, Wade in Miami. Of note, LA needed to draft Magic, Boston drafted Bird, and Chicago drafted Jordan)

For a team like Charlotte, the best course of action is to continue to get quality draft picks and assets and maximize their use. Where teams go wrong is having some stars and then trying to add mediocre to good free agents that don't put them over the edge. Usually those teams stay mediocre as they continue to draft mediocre players that don't help them and they can't do much because much of their cap room is gone.

[gm in training]

wow lol guess there wasn't a logical reply . i win all my debates and even better all my fantasy leagues ,so when the nba season comes around hit me up .

[Chef]

For me or....


Because I'm totally down for a happy meal

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/7/2010/06/fat-kits-eating-mcdonalds.jpg

No pickles though

no for gminatrainingbra

[Whiz Kid]

wow lol guess there wasn't a logical reply . i win all my debates and even better all my fantasy leagues ,so when the nba season comes around hit me up .

Logical reply? You haven't displayed any kind of logic in anything you have said...whatever

[SWedd523]

wow lol guess there wasn't a logical reply . i win all my debates and even better all my fantasy leagues ,so when the nba season comes around hit me up .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9lkxq7tGuY

[gm in training]

You really need to stop talking about how good you are. I mean, if you're sitting on the floor next to your master's chair and not barking at the doorbell, then maybe you're good. Otherwise, you just look ridiculous.

At any rate, in the last 30 years, about 10 teams have won championships, with the lion's share going to LA, Boston, Chicago, and San Antonio. The only four teams outside of those to win since 1990 are Houston, Miami, Dallas, and Detroit.


The point?

Aside from a handful of teams, it's very difficult to put together a championship team, no matter the strategy. The teams outside of LA and Boston (and recently, Miami) that have won typically drafted a superstar or two (Robinson/Duncan, Olajuwon, Dirk) and even the longtime contenders needed incredible draft picks to stay relevant. (LA with Kobe, Boston with young talent and picks traded for Allen and KG, Wade in Miami. Of note, LA needed to draft Magic, Boston drafted Bird, and Chicago drafted Jordan)

For a team like Charlotte, the best course of action is to continue to get quality draft picks and assets and maximize their use. Where teams go wrong is having some stars and then trying to add mediocre to good free agents that don't put them over the edge. Usually those teams stay mediocre as they continue to draft mediocre players that don't help them and they can't do much because much of their cap room is gone.

im not here to troll people or nothing ,first off this all in fun for me.

ok besides you who is looking at the big picture , i was directing my comments to those who feel that there is only one option and thats to build through the draft and historically this past two decades that doesn't happen. there were more dynasties in the past because free agency and trades wasn't much as a factor so majority of the teams you named built through the draft ; larry's celtics,jordan bulls,akeem,rockets,and magic lakers but what i was trying to get ppl to understand was this is a new era with cap space into play and drafting into a contender is very unlikely. perfect stat that you put up is that theres been 10 championship teams in the last 30 years ( thats crazy) and i already realized that but i don't think the majority really knew that . so ,when i said to play for playoff spot or to play to become relavant,competitive,and respect by our peers it wasn't that im being naive , im being more realistic than the ppl who feel that there is that superstar in the draft who will turn our fortunes around and into some contenders when that isn't realistic because there are ten times more busts than just finding a good nba player let alone a allstar/superstar.also, with nba lottery no team is guaranteed to draft at their relative record , so we end up somewhere in the lottery not drafting a top tier player ,and end up with another lost season. as bobcats fans we experienced the nba lottery effect ,which shocks me that ya feel this is the way.

[westbrook08]

Hey you guys forgot to put a picture of the blind kid on dumb and dumber petting the dead bird! lol. Anyway, the point is that we just blew our team up 2 years ago because we got destroyed in the first round round of the playoffs and weren't going to be able to get out of mediocrity.No one is saying we hope the team tanks on purpose.What we're saying is that we know for a fact that this team is gonna suck pretty bad, so in light of that, we are hoping for the first pick.NBA teams take a while to win.We are not going to the playoffs this year. I will bet you any fucking amount of money you can scrape out of your little piggy banks.We all want to be optimistic.But this IS a rebuilding year and there are 2 potential franchise players sitting at the top of next years draft, who will never end up in charlotte if they don't come here through the draft.That's the point!

[Adam42R]

You really need to stop talking about how good you are. I mean, if you're sitting on the floor next to your master's chair and not barking at the doorbell, then maybe you're good. Otherwise, you just look ridiculous.

At any rate, in the last 30 years, about 10 teams have won championships, with the lion's share going to LA, Boston, Chicago, and San Antonio. The only four teams outside of those to win since 1990 are Houston, Miami, Dallas, and Detroit.

The point?

Aside from a handful of teams, it's very difficult to put together a championship team, no matter the strategy. The teams outside of LA and Boston (and recently, Miami) that have won typically drafted a superstar or two (Robinson/Duncan, Olajuwon, Dirk) and even the longtime contenders needed incredible draft picks to stay relevant. (LA with Kobe, Boston with young talent and picks traded for Allen and KG, Wade in Miami. Of note, LA needed to draft Magic, Boston drafted Bird, and Chicago drafted Jordan)

For a team like Charlotte, the best course of action is to continue to get quality draft picks and assets and maximize their use. Where teams go wrong is having some stars and then trying to add mediocre to good free agents that don't put them over the edge. Usually those teams stay mediocre as they continue to draft mediocre players that don't help them and they can't do much because much of their cap room is gone.

dnbman, you somewhat prove what git is saying (at least what I think he's saying). How many guys went 5th like Scottie Pippen or Kevin Garnett that would be franchise changers? Outside of the top 5, how many change their franchises completely ...

Chris Mullin 7th
Dirk Nowitzki 9th
Amar'e Stoudamire 9th
Paul Pierce 10th
Joe Johnson 10th
Andrew Bynum 10th
Reggie Miller 11th
Kobe Bryant 13th
Karl Malone 13th
Steve Nash 15th
Shawn Kemp 17th
Danny Granger 17th
Rajon Rondo 21st
Andrei Kirilenko 24th
Gerald Wallace 25th
Monta Ellis 40th
Marc Gasol 48th
Manu Ginobili 54th
Luis Scola 56th

And beyond the guys that made huge impacts on their franchises that were picked 5th and lower, how many times was the #1 or even #2 & #3 picks not worth the guy four or five spots lower than him.

If the argument is that you can still strike gold by trying your damnedest to make the playoffs, I agree. It might come down to more luck the further down the draft board you are but we have a guy in Cho that I believe will do quite a good job of evaluating what works. We aren't tanking but to those that think we "should" - there's no argument that says that by being the overall worst, you will get the #1 pick. And even with the #1 pick, there's little to say over the last 25-30 years that it's cut and dry that #1 on draft day will be in the HOF.

The most compelling argument for trying our best to make the playoffs - especially how we are constructed today with only 2 longish term contracts of any consequence - is that "IF" we can, we'll energize the heck out of the fringe fanbase and we'll still have a very flexible salary range to play with and expiring contracts in Diop and Carroll.

[gm in training]

dnbman, you somewhat prove what git is saying (at least what I think he's saying). How many guys went 5th like Scottie Pippen or Kevin Garnett that would be franchise changers? Outside of the top 5, how many change their franchises completely ...

Chris Mullin 7th
Dirk Nowitzki 9th
Amar'e Stoudamire 9th
Paul Pierce 10th
Joe Johnson 10th
Andrew Bynum 10th
Reggie Miller 11th
Kobe Bryant 13th
Karl Malone 13th
Steve Nash 15th
Shawn Kemp 17th
Danny Granger 17th
Rajon Rondo 21st
Andrei Kirilenko 24th
Gerald Wallace 25th
Monta Ellis 40th
Marc Gasol 48th
Manu Ginobili 54th
Luis Scola 56th

And beyond the guys that made huge impacts on their franchises that were picked 5th and lower, how many times was the #1 or even #2 & #3 picks not worth the guy four or five spots lower than him.

If the argument is that you can still strike gold by trying your damnedest to make the playoffs, I agree. It might come down to more luck the further down the draft board you are but we have a guy in Cho that I believe will do quite a good job of evaluating what works. We aren't tanking but to those that think we "should" - there's no argument that says that by being the overall worst, you will get the #1 pick. And even with the #1 pick, there's little to say over the last 25-30 years that it's cut and dry that #1 on draft day will be in the HOF.

The most compelling argument for trying our best to make the playoffs - especially how we are constructed today with only 2 longish term contracts of any consequence - is that "IF" we can, we'll energize the heck out of the fringe fanbase and we'll still have a very flexible salary range to play with and expiring contracts in Diop and Carroll.

thanks.... DNBMAN kinda did prove my point lol

[westbrook08]

Ok.Well jordan went #3,shaq went# 1, Mourning went #2, Lebron went #1, Durant went #2, Duncan went #1......You can go on and on.And kobe would have gone higher probably in all honesty, but teams we're so scared to take a kid straight out of high school when he came out that it kind of made him slide.But people were aware of his potential.The point is that this years draft is going to be flat out horrible.But the 2 guys at the top in muhammed and noel have a chance to be straight up game changers.This is not the year you wanna be picking low.And if this team continues to develop we may have to give our pick to chicago in 2014.So this may very well be our last shot for awhile to get the top pick.That's why most of us want it!

[Adam42R]

That's a small sample size, - you need "to go on and on" because Jordan did go 3rd, talk to me about Sam Bowie. You can cherry pick top draft picks that went on to greatness just like I picked lower picks that did so. There are equally as many WTFs that went 3rd or 2nd and even 1st overall as there are guys that have succeeded. I'd bet if you put in a blender the top four picks of each draft for the last 25-30 years, you'd have a 50/50 shot of a great player. That's not good enough odds to try dump a season. There's still hella good "investments" and "gambles" as you go down the draft board in most years. And contrary to you, I don't fall into the notion that we "KNOW" what next year's draft looks like today. I hear that stuff every year 12 months out and it's never accurate. Same goes for college football prospects ... there's no way to know what tomorrow brings.

[gm in training]

Ok.Well jordan went #3,shaq went# 1, Mourning went #2, Lebron went #1, Durant went #2, Duncan went #1......You can go on and on.And kobe would have gone higher probably in all honesty, but teams we're so scared to take a kid straight out of high school when he came out that it kind of made him slide.But people were aware of his potential.The point is that this years draft is going to be flat out horrible.But the 2 guys at the top in muhammed and noel have a chance to be straight up game changers.This is not the year you wanna be picking low.And if this team continues to develop we may have to give our pick to chicago in 2014.So this may very well be our last shot for awhile to get the top pick.That's why most of us want it!

ya must of forgot about the late 90's and mid 00's and how many high schools bust there were . ya must of forgot that past few years that byron mullens jeremy tyler, austin rivers,quincy miller,tobias harris,perry jones,lance stephens,xavier henry and etc were basically the top h.s. propects of their class and they wasn't the best players in there drafts,so of course like media whores ya getting caught up into players who may not even be in lottery or nba relevant, not to mention the lottery isn't always 100% .

clowns

[gm in training]

like i said we try for the playoffs and evaluate from there . the only reason we rebooted because we had veterans that we realized that they were in there downside of their careers. i mean how did capt jack work for the bucks or how did wallace work out for the blazers? i bet we wouldn't have gave them up in their prime years.we had players that brown wasn't willing to develop and silas was more of a free spirit coach who allowed management to evaluate their young players.we drop millions of dollars with them acquisitions and developed players for the future.

[dnbman]

It's not about the fact that you can draft guys later in the first or the second that can make a difference. It's about the likelihood of that. Gentlemen, I give you the NBA Draft Analysis chart:
http://82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

In a line graph, it makes a nice rounded slope from very likely to be a start to be very unlikely to be a star as the picks go down the line.

[gm in training]

It's not about the fact that you can draft guys later in the first or the second that can make a difference. It's about the likelihood of that. Gentlemen, I give you the NBA Draft Analysis chart:
http://82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

In a line graph, it makes a nice rounded slope from very likely to be a start to be very unlikely to be a star as the picks go down the line.

why is the bust graph empty between 1-8 anybody drafted between 1-8 and is a role player/deep bench is considered a bust ?

i love drafts but im saying to soley rely on the draft for our future isn't real. you find a good or if your lucky a great player and you build around him via trading or free agency,not multiple lottery seasons

[dnbman]

why is the bust graph empty between 1-8 anybody drafted between 1-8 and is a role player/deep bench is considered a bust ?

It's relative to NBA performance not relative to draft pick. That's the point: higher draft picks are MUCH more likely to pan out and LESS likely to bust than lower draft picks. While that may seem obvious, when people suggest that draft picks don't really matter, they're ignoring history. No, we're not guaranteed to get a superstar with a top 3 pick. However, being in the top 5 means you're getting a solid player 75% of the time and a star 60% of the time.

You do that for a few seasons, and all of a sudden you have a nice young core of players.

[cltblkhscoach]

Guys, this is just getting crazy. NO ONE here is wanting to tank anything, hell we saw what "tanking" got us last year, screwed over by David Stern.

Of course the team is going to try and win every game, and of course their goal is the playoffs and beyond.

What everyone is saying is that with our very young team and lack of talent - even Dunlap has admitted that - that we will most likely be in position for a Top 5 pick.

Now by some grace of God, if the team is in playoff contention with this group like someone else said, it will GREATLY boost the fanbase and the optimism around the team.

But that is NOT LIKELY to happen, and the vast majority of everyone on here is looking to building the OKC way like Cho has said so many times over and over.

Now please let's stop bickering like punks and move on.

[Charlotteisthebest]

1 winning season in franchise history, a franchise that is losing millions of dollars, and has a tiny fan base, if there ever was a time to start winning its now, winning is contagious, but apparently losing is as well that is why so many of you are so eager to go ahead and chalk up the L's already, go for the gold baby!

Give it to the all star break, if we suck then go ahead and tank and just hope we don't wind up with Greg Oden 2.0! ;)

Go Bobcats!!!!

[SWedd523]

1 winning season in franchise history, a franchise that is losing millions of dollars, and has a tiny fan base, if there ever was a time to start winning its now, winning is contagious, but apparently losing is as well that is why so many of you are so eager to go ahead and chalk up the L's already, go for the gold baby!

Give it to the all star break, if we suck then go ahead and tank and just hope we don't wind up with Greg Oden 2.0! ;)

Go Bobcats!!!!

I can tell you weren't around the LB years

[westbrook08]

I want shabazz muhammed in a bobcat uniform.Whatever that means is whatever that means.He's gonna be a flat out superstar! Screw everything else.

[gm in training]

k im a true sports fan and im very realistic . the idea of tanking multiple seasons isn't logical and not beneficial . there so many variables that can make tanking an horrible mistake.there is a huge difference from rebuilding and tanking. its like an old building that needs to be knocked down to rebuild a new one and everyone understands the process and why, tanking is the idea of letting the building become dilapidated with the inhabits unaware of the situation and are heavily effected. nothing good comes from losing except the consolation of a lottery pick because in retrospect managment got fired, you lost fan support,players are traded or cut,respect ,and most important millions of dollars.the only time teams actually tank is at the half-way mark when they notice their not making the playoffs ,and trade their best assets, but not from the jump.

now if we make the playoffs at 7-8,there is so much good that comes from that. as for the past 2 decades teams of late,evaluate and mold their team after playoff losses. especially in our case we have young players and they well only get better ,so if we made the playoffs with a majority young core,why isn't that positive news to feed off for next year. mutiple lotteries doesn't result in success or superstars for teams in this new era , also if a player leaves the team and become successful thats still is considered a bust for the originally team who drafted them but here's my case in point;

parentheses are draft bust or ok lottery picks not(all/superstars)

the clippers(d-miles,kandi-man,livingston,chris wilcox)got lucky with griffin and started to surround him with all-star talent(butler/paul via fa).

bulls(tyrus,t-chandlers,fizer,e-curry,jay-will)got lucky with rose ,drafted two good players in deng and noah ,and later signed boozer in the failed attempt to create a super team(wade/lebron)

cavs(diop,d-wagner,luke jackson,c-mihm)got lucky with lebron(he alone gave them 50 wins) but still are attempting to salvage franchise with kyrie.

grizzlies(mayo,xavier henry,drew gooden,a-daniels,stromile,b-reeves,thabeet,battier) traded for gasol and randolph to create a playoff team.gay is a good player but has been in recent trade rumors due to not fitting well with team.

kings(spencer hawes,j-thompson,tyreke game has degress in the last 3 years) still in a ditch

knicks(sweetney,frye,jordan hill,) they tried making super teams in past and present but failed

blazers(roy because his injury mad him a non-factor,odgen,martell webster)but they still have aldridge to build around

celtics (best draft picks where all there mid-round drafts picks,not to mention they went the big 3 route after countless years)created big 3 around pierce via sign and trade for a championship

thunder created big 3 and ibaka through great drafts and formed a championship contender

washington (kwame brown, jered jeffries,jarvis hayes) attempted their own big 3 with arenas,butler and jamison for short-lived success but at this moment are irrelavant

spurs created their big 3 through great drafting and making minors acquisitions throughout the years for their championships.

dallas(etan thomas,traded for devin harris) super lucked out with dirk for traylor trade. spent last 13 years building around dirk via trades and free agency ,and was a championship contender before winning title.

pacers(paul george only lottery in last decade) the pacers built their core team through the draft with mid selections and its funny because they stuck with their core unit for about 3 years and never tanked or started the rebuilding stage. they stuck with their draft picks till they made the playoffs,even though they made some additions like west and collison(both weren't as effective though)and became an eastern contender.

rockets(no lottery picks but they did trade gay for battier) drafted a few useless mid rounders and try to build around kevin martin but lets face it yao ming set them back like 10 years.

basically i dont have the patience to break every team down but the point is to tank or to think multiple lottery's equal success isn't really true only a few teams actually built contenders or championships through the lottery(thunder,spurs,and maybe pacers). there are maybe 10 superstars in the lg and some teams have more than one,and the nba has 30 teams so, in the past decade there has been maybe 10 superstars and ya want to tank the season going out on a limb?the teams who have made a few lottery picks in a row never capitalized of their picks . shabazz and noel isn't even guaranteed stars. xavier henry ,lance stephenson, mullens,auston rivers, jeremy tyler,josh shelby and etc lead each of their h.s. classes and wasn't even lottery or some didn't even make the 1st round so lets be realistic.

go for playoffs. and if your going to challenge my theories please give me some examples ,if you comment and don't then your point isn't proven or logical.

damn im good

[Charlotteisthebest]

Playoffs, Playoffs, Playoffs!!!!!!!

[Charlotteisthebest]

I can tell you weren't around the LB years



The time to start winning is now:

Charlotte Bobcats Records Year by Year:
Regular Season Playoffs
Season City W L % Division Standing W L % Performance
2011-12 Charlotte 7 59 .106 5th Southeast Division - - - DNQ
2010-11 Charlotte 34 48 .415 4th Southeast Division - - - DNQ
2009-10 Charlotte 44 38 .537 4th Southeast Division 0 4 .000 Lost East Conf 1st Rd
2008-09 Charlotte 35 47 .427 4th Southeast Division - - - DNQ
2007-08 Charlotte 32 50 .390 4th Southeast Division - - - DNQ
2006-07 Charlotte 33 49 .402 4th Southeast Division - - - DNQ
2005-06 Charlotte 26 56 .317 4th Southeast Division - - - DNQ
2004-05 Charlotte 18 64 .220 4th Southeast Division - - - DNQ

[DashGlobal]

No surprise we sucked. We havent had one superstar or quality franchise player in our history.

[Mustachio]

The time to start winning is now:

Well theres your problem swedd, we havent been pushing the win now button.

[dnbman]

Well theres your problem swedd, we havent been pushing the win now button.

http://www.dfer.org/win-button.jpg

[BobCatsFanInTx]

No...you're not good.

I'll stand corrected in my statements when a big star has an hour long special and says "I'm taking my talents to Queen City"ROFLMAO...Too funny

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Ok.Well jordan went #3,shaq went# 1, Mourning went #2, Lebron went #1, Durant went #2, Duncan went #1......You can go on and on.And kobe would have gone higher probably in all honesty, but teams we're so scared to take a kid straight out of high school when he came out that it kind of made him slide.But people were aware of his potential.The point is that this years draft is going to be flat out horrible.But the 2 guys at the top in muhammed and noel have a chance to be straight up game changers.This is not the year you wanna be picking low.And if this team continues to develop we may have to give our pick to chicago in 2014.So this may very well be our last shot for awhile to get the top pick.That's why most of us want it!I think you way underestimate this draft. It was as deep a draft as there has been in a long time. No there will probably not be ANY or FEW superstars but you can say that about most drafts. That said, there will be a solid amount of stars and there will be a lot of solid contributors from this draft.

As far as next years draft, Muhammed and Noel have not done shit outside of dominating watered down talent in high school. Yes there are some high school phenoms who came straight to the NBA and were as advertised if not better but there are also some who failed. I am grateful high school basketball players have to play at least a year of college ball. Let us see how things shake down before we go declaring these two young men the next sure and big things. I am all about drafting in the lottery next season but it may turn out the stars or superstars of the future will not be either of these two young men.

I bet this seasons draft turns out to be far from horrible. It may not be the best draft class of all time but it sure as hell will not be the worst or horrible. I would venture to say last seasons draft was worse and it was not all together horrible.

[SWedd523]

The time to start winning is now:

1. You don't get it

2. Yep, you definitely weren't around for the LB years

[SJackson1]

We need to keep building our roster with young players and the likes of Kemba, MKG, Biyombo, Hendo are the future of the Bobcats, we just need to keep improving year by year. With Dunlap as head coach i think we will be alot tougher to beat next season and he could be our solution for a long term coach. Ive been impressed with our pressure defense in the summer league and i hope we can maintain that throughout the season !

[Whiz Kid]

We need to keep building our roster with young players and the likes of Kemba, MKG, Biyombo, Hendo are the future of the Bobcats, we just need to keep improving year by year. With Dunlap as head coach i think we will be alot tougher to beat next season and he could be our solution for a long term coach. Ive been impressed with our pressure defense in the summer league and i hope we can maintain that throughout the season !

We will probably see the same intensity level with the defense, but we will hardly be pressing full court in the regular season.

[westbrook08]

I think you way underestimate this draft. It was as deep a draft as there has been in a long time. No there will probably not be ANY or FEW superstars but you can say that about most drafts. That said, there will be a solid amount of stars and there will be a lot of solid contributors from this draft.

As far as next years draft, Muhammed and Noel have not done shit outside of dominating watered down talent in high school. Yes there are some high school phenoms who came straight to the NBA and were as advertised if not better but there are also some who failed. I am grateful high school basketball players have to play at least a year of college ball. Let us see how things shake down before we go declaring these two young men the next sure and big things. I am all about drafting in the lottery next season but it may turn out the stars or superstars of the future will not be either of these two young men.

I bet this seasons draft turns out to be far from horrible. It may not be the best draft class of all time but it sure as hell will not be the worst or horrible. I would venture to say last seasons draft was worse and it was not all together horrible.

I didn't say anything about the draft that just happened.I think mkg is gonna be great.As far as next year, i think noel has the potential be a franchise guy.But i truly believe that muhammed will be one of the biggest superstars in the nba in 5 years.I'm talking about being in the same company as kobe,lebron,or durant.And i don't even hesitate to say that.I think he's a potential future hall of famer.That is how good i think muhammed is gonna be.He is as good as i have ever seen coming out of high school.And i'm dead serious.I would do whatever it took to put him in a bobcat's uniform.You might think i'm crazy,but just save this post and remember this 5 years from now.He's gonna be awesome!