Surprise! Bobcats shopping Thomas

[Plowright]

Legion Sports ‏@MySportsLegion
Bobcats heavily shopping forward Tyrus Thomas, sources confirm Bobcats "are legitimately calling every team."

this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone but considering there is butt all happening at the moment thought I would post it. Also for those who don't know Legions sports have a lot of fingers in a lot of pies, they are normally fairly reliable

[Chef]

what the hell could they be asking for? it will probably cost at the very least a pick switch option with either the pistons or blazers pick.

[ziggy]

I'd be willing to hang onto him and try to make a deal around the trade deadline because right now he has ZERO value.
Maybe by the deadline he can put together a few good games that might sucker some team into thinking he is a worthwhile player.

[ZackTB23]

I'd be willing to hang onto him and try to make a deal around the trade deadline because right now he has ZERO value.
Maybe by the deadline he can put together a few good games that might sucker some team into thinking he is a worthwhile player.

Or he could suck a lot by the time the trade deadline comes and his value could decrease. So you have to be careful with that.

[Chef]

Or he could suck a lot by the time the trade deadline comes and his value could decrease. So you have to be careful with that.

short of a gilbert arenas type issue, his value can't get any lower. zig is right, if he can prove to be a marginal starter and decent backup he could be swapped for a complete bum on a shorter less expensive deal. other than that, we can forget about moving him without sending a pick.

[Twan's Kin]

y'all think he will be a starter for the opening game if he's still on the team in November?

[Plowright]

I'm sorry but his trade value is at an all time low. Shopping him now doesn't stop us from shopping him at the trade deadline. You never know, you may find a team which has no bigs and are really struggling for shot blockers before the season starts and are willing to take him on as they think they will contend. That type of team will give up picks for players as they dont want rooks

[superb1]

I think we should hold on to him unless we get a sweet deal that we can't refuse. We need all the bid bodies we can get. He and Diop together makes up one half decent player. Thomas, Williams, and the expiring contracts of Carroll and Diop should net up something at trade deadline.

[isguros]

y'all think he will be a starter for the opening game if he's still on the team in November?

He won't be a starter, in my opinion at least. it's not that he's not gifted enough to be a starter, but I believe his style of play is better suited for the second unit.

[mrtarheel]

If his head and heart was in it it would be a no brainer, he would be starting over Mullens. Trading him now or the deadline I don't think will happen, either he plays better for us now or he's on the amnesty list next year. No one will give us much for him and would probably want a pick for taking him so I think it's us or amnesty.

[Black]

The Charlotte Bobcats would love to get out of the Tyrus Thomas business. To say it has gone bad in Charlotte between the team and the player is an understatement.

Sources close to the process say the team hopes new head Coach Mike Dunlap can reach Tyrus in a way that Paul Silas couldn’t, but the truth of the matter is that Tyrus is not in the long-term plan. If the Bobcats can find anyone who’d take him, they’d trade Tyrus tomorrow.

The problem with moving Tyrus is that he’s had some stomach related issues that’s caused him to struggle keeping weight on. Combine that with a poor attitude and a history of run-ins with coaches and that’s a tough sell. Tyrus is half the player he was when Charlotte overpaid him and with three years and some $26 million left on his deal, he may be unmovable. If this summer taught us anything, it’s that even the worst contracts can be moved, so look for the Bobcats to try and find a new home for Thomas, especially if he shows any signs of improvement as a player.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-on-the-move-at-the-trade-deadline/

Sports Legion isn't a source I'd give too much credibility to. They just steal other people's stories, and Tweet them without giving credit. I doubt he is actively being shopped aggressively, but if they stumbled upon an interested team, they'd jump on it.

[KGE]

I think we should hold on to him and give Dunlop a chance to motivate him.As it has been said his value cannot get any lower then it is now.
Unless someone offers something good (I don't see it happening), we shouldsee how it goes with the new Coach.

[SWedd523]

for the record, Legion Sports is a wholly unreliable website.

[Plowright]

For the record, its not unreliable. I never said it breaks news. It just takes info from reliable places across the web, and I know it doesnt give them credit but I never said it did. Say what you want but the stuff they tweet is always pretty accurate with trades, players involved, picks etc.

Either way, it is obviously correct as we are shopping TT

[SWedd523]

It's a bunch of kids who search around twitter looking for other scoops so they can copy them and get hits.

Do you even know where they're sourcing that info from?

[MadBOBCATfanUK]

I think it's a bad move, his trade value is at rock bottom.
1) Shopping him, might dent his confidence
2) Shopping him now might damage his stock if he has a rebound year and proves to be a starter.
3) Guy can get up and down the floor, let him play under Dunlap without trade rumours circling around his head for a while

[isguros]

I don't think we should trade Tyrus. Like some have posted above, I also think he'll fit well in the type of offence that Dunlap is going to play, combine that with his defensive abilities and you're going to have yourself a core player (or a good rotation player at least). The other thing is: if we're trying to trade Tyrus, we have to add one of our expiring contracts just to get some team who's willing to accept Turus' ridiculous contract, which won't allow us to sign free agents during next year's offseason.

[Plowright]

Yes, They got it from hoopsworld.

[gm in training]

Yes, They got it from hoopsworld.

tyrus isn't being shopped .hoopsworld never said he was being traded ,he was on their list for the most expendable players by deadline plus its around training camp time and teams have their rosters all ready pegged w/ minor adjustments. tyrus only had one bad year but his career as a whole has been good for the most . his minutes compared to numbers are superstar like before the 11-12 season.he had ended the 10-11 with a torn meniscus, he came in camp grossly out of shape,he got injured in training camp and then rushed back to play out of position at sf,60 percent of the team was injured and in disarray . there was alot of variables to why he had an off year. this isn't a video game ppl , players don't come from injuries at 100 percent, or you cant just play ppl out of position. it took amare about 2 years to regain his form, kobe been dunking alot lately compared 2 the last few years ,bynum is now considered an top player after battling numerous injuries, d-wade battled alot of knee problems in his early years and was almost forgotten as a top tier player. just a few players to name , i have about ten more( and i know somebody might say those are all-stars , but the point im making is that they all regained natural form after a couple or few years)

[Chef]

tyrus isn't being shopped .hoopsworld never said he was being traded ,he was on their list for the most expendable players by deadline plus its around training camp time and teams have their rosters all ready pegged w/ minor adjustments. tyrus only had one bad year but his career as a whole has been good for the most . his minutes compared to numbers are superstar like before the 11-12 season.he had ended the 10-11 with a torn meniscus, he came in camp grossly out of shape,he got injured in training camp and then rushed back to play out of position at sf,60 percent of the team was injured and in disarray . there was alot of variables to why he had an off year. this isn't a video game ppl , players don't come from injuries at 100 percent, or you cant just play ppl out of position. it took amare about 2 years to regain his form, kobe been dunking alot lately compared 2 the last few years ,bynum is now considered an top player after battling numerous injuries, d-wade battled alot of knee problems in his early years and was almost forgotten as a top tier player. just a few players to name , i have about ten more( and i know somebody might say those are all-stars , but the point im making is that they all regained natural form after a couple or few years)

you have a lot more training to do if this is your assessment of tyrus thomas

[gm in training]

you have a lot more training to do if this is your assessment of tyrus thomas

check his seasons before the 2011-12 season . numbers don't lie , stop going by what you hear

[spectre]

Tyrus did play well, but there's a lot of boneheadedness in there as well. I think he had the team high PER a couple years ago.

[Chef]

check his seasons before the 2011-12 season . numbers don't lie , stop going by what you hear

neither does game film and he is a moron who is not worth anywhere close to what he is getting paid.

[Plowright]

Oh please show me these superstar numbers, throw them in my face please. If you prove me wrong then I will call you king gm forever. Also, TT is the one who had been asking to at SF, so that's his own fault. All those guys have great work ethics/excluding Bynum. TT on the other hand hasn't put any effort into getting his body into shape. Most players in the offseason try to strengthen their body to decrease the chance of injury, TT has a history of getting injured in training camp, lazy summer time. Plus, all those guys showed development since coming out of college, what development has TT shown? He can still jump high and block shots but He's still skinny, terrible handles and has a well below average BBIQ. That's another thing those players have which TT doesn't, I can also list 10 more players who have higher BBIQ than TT wooooo check me out, I know so much.... Give me a fucking break kid.

[gm in training]

Oh please show me these superstar numbers, throw them in my face please. If you prove me wrong then I will call you king gm forever. Also, TT is the one who had been asking to at SF, so that's his own fault. All those guys have great work ethics/excluding Bynum. TT on the other hand hasn't put any effort into getting his body into shape. Most players in the offseason try to strengthen their body to decrease the chance of injury, TT has a history of getting injured in training camp, lazy summer time. Plus, all those guys showed development since coming out of college, what development has TT shown? He can still jump high and block shots but He's still skinny, terrible handles and has a well below average BBIQ. That's another thing those players have which TT doesn't, I can also list 10 more players who have higher BBIQ than TT wooooo check me out, I know so much.... Give me a fucking break kid.

TT's



CAREER SEASON AVERAGES

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
06-07 CHI 72 4 13.4 0.475 0.000 0.606 1.2 2.5 3.7 0.6 0.6 1.1 1.31 2.25 5.2
07-08 CHI 74 27 18.0 0.423 0.167 0.741 1.4 3.2 4.6 1.2 0.6 1.0 1.04 2.30 6.8
08-09 CHI 79 61 27.5 0.451 0.333 0.783 1.9 4.6 6.4 1.0 1.2 1.9 1.63 2.78 10.8
09-10 CHI 29 3 23.4 0.483 0.000 0.644 1.4 4.9 6.3 1.1 1.4 1.7 1.79 2.21 8.8
09-10 CHA 25 0 21.7 0.442 0.000 0.729 1.6 4.5 6.1 0.9 0.9 1.5 1.60 2.60 10.1
09-10 -- 54 3 22.6 0.462 0.000 0.686 1.5 4.7 6.2 1.0 1.2 1.6 1.70 2.39 9.4
10-11 CHA 41 2 21.0 0.471 0.000 0.787 1.6 3.9 5.5 0.7 0.7 1.6 1.59 2.76 10.2
11-12 CHA 54 30 18.8 0.367 0.333 0.759 0.9 2.8 3.7 0.6 0.7 1.1 0.98 2.67 5.6
Career -- 374 127 20.2 0.442 0.192 0.729 1.4 3.6 5.0 0.9 0.8 1.4 1.36 2.51 7.9

before 11-12 season, he was avg less than 25 min for his career while shooting about 46% , 10 points,6 rebs,1ast,1stl,and 1.5 blocks. im not sure if you know but thats amazing , i guarentee that you can't find a current player right now who avg under 25 min and put up numbers as good or better(i can think of about 2 but you called me out ). your turn PLOWRIGHT.

the stats came out all smushed together . anyway just go look his career stats at nba.com or etc......

[SWedd523]

i guarentee that you can't find a current player right now who avg under 25 min and put up numbers as good or better


i can think of about 2

:facepalm:

[SWedd523]

Since Tyrus' rookie year, here are some guys who posted similar or better single seasons than Tyrus' production per25

Manu Ginobili
Kenneth Faried
Luis Scola
Ryan Anderson
Michael Beasley
Carl Landry
Shaquille O'Neal


to name a few...

[gm in training]

Since Tyrus' rookie year, here are some guys who posted similar or better single seasons than Tyrus' production per25

Manu Ginobili
Kenneth Faried
Luis Scola
Ryan Anderson
Michael Beasley
Carl Landry
Shaquille O'Neal


to name a few...

i said that plowright cant think of two but i could ?my two was kenneth and favors. i said current so you can take shaq off. beasley had good stats but they weren't better than tyrus and you can take off carl landry because for a big man his reb and blks were really low. but most of the players on your list are either good players or all-stars . so u may have proven my point better than i could thanks swedd lol.

[Plowright]

Just one question. How many superstars or all stars this year played less than 25 mins per game this year?

[Plowright]

Also I love how you just ignore my valid points. Improvement, work ethic? How can you ignore these? Numbers are not everything kid

[SWedd523]

I just wanted to list some name brand guys so you would know who they are

[westbrook08]

I don't even know why anyone wasted their time making this a thread. tyrus has not been fully healthy in 2 years,he's underachieved as a player throughout his career and he's viewed as a locker room problem. He has zero on the court value to any team at his current salary. The only way he get's off this roster is if we trade him for another player with more years on his deal who we happen to like better, we trade him for a player with more years on his deal who we hate but the other team throws in a couple of 1st rounders, or we amnesty him. Other gm's are not stupid. They aren't like people who sit around in chat rooms and say "hey,that guy used to be good" or "he could still have potential,we should trade for him". Tyrus is many years into the league, is overpaid, and now has medical red flags. What he could potentially do on the court right now is irrelevant. If he happens to light it up in the first half of the season we might be able to do a decent trade, but i wouldn't hold my breath and i'm already calling him being amnestied next year. And that article on hoopsworld was stupid. It was basically some guy with nothing to write this time of year who was more or less just listing shitty contracts. We'd like to trade tyrus? No shit? Really? Hey, this just in: the sun came up this morning and rosie o'donnell is still fat are other headlines that are just as insightful! lol.

[Plowright]

I realize it was an obvious point, hence the sarcasm in the title of the thread "surprise!". The only reason it was posted was the forum has been dead and I was hoping to try and spark some sort of discussion... 4 pages in and I have been successful. But I totally agree with your westbrook. We either give up a pick, or take back a contract with more years. The only thing that can save us if he has an up first half of the year so we can trade him at the deadline, but even then I'm sure teams are not stupid, there not going to forget about his previous 2 years

[gm in training]

my point was that he literary had one bad season , and im pretty sure that can be corrected. besides being injured , he hasn't had any back,knee,or acl problems like alot of athletes so how is he a redflag?his injuries are minor and somthing most athletes wish they only had . i dont think that we are trying to trade tyrus because if he didn't have any value he would of been amnestied , and if he did have value we would of traded him . i think that its only right to give another chance .

[Chef]

my point was that he literary had one bad season , and im pretty sure that can be corrected. besides being injured , he hasn't had any back,knee,or acl problems like alot of athletes so how is he a redflag?his injuries are minor and somthing most athletes wish thy only had .

no, you keep typing it wrong. he literally has never had 1 good season. there is a reason he only gets on the court for about 20-25 mins per game.

[gm in training]

no, you keep typing it wrong. he literally has never had 1 good season. there is a reason he only gets on the court for about 20-25 mins per game.

his first coach vinny del negro , there is no reason why vinny is about to get fired from the loaded clipps .chris paul took a least talented team in the hornets further than this clippers teams, vinny cant out coach other teams. larry brown is the wrong coach to start a youth movement with , because he's so set in his ways if he coached your favorite stars when they 1st came in the league, they might not have been stars. do you really think the way r.westbook erratic behavior is that he would started his 1st 2-3 years w/ brown,no! paul silas never coached last year . he had us playing streetball w/ no direction , the only coach i've ever seen let another person coach while he's present. silas put 6'8 diaw 260 by the way cant jump, rebound,run, or block at center. when diaw went to the spurs he was an complete asset . so, thats maybe why he avg 20-25 min a game

[SWedd523]

1 bad season

0 good seasons

[westbrook08]

his first coach vinny del negro , there is no reason why vinny is about to get fired from the loaded clipps .chris paul took a least talented team in the hornets further than this clippers teams, vinny cant out coach other teams. larry brown is the wrong coach to start a youth movement with , because he's so set in his ways if he coached your favorite stars when they 1st came in the league, they might not have been stars. do you really think the way r.westbook erratic behavior is that he would started his 1st 2-3 years w/ brown,no! paul silas never coached last year . he had us playing streetball w/ no direction , the only coach i've ever seen let another person coach while he's present. silas put 6'8 diaw 260 by the way cant jump, rebound,run, or block at center. when diaw went to the spurs he was an complete asset . so, thats maybe why he cant avg 20-25 min a game

Larry brown might have been the wrong coach for this team but he was the right coach for tyrus. He's the only coach who's ever gotten shit out of that kid. He hasn't done anything to warrant his salary or even being a starter before or since. And it wasn't like he even played like an all-star that year. He showed up good in limited minutes and had a good PER. And the reason he hasn't been amnestied is not because the team thinks he still has alot of promise. It's because we haven't needed the cap room to make a signing that we couldn't otherwise make yet and cho is hoping to find a sucker to take him off our hands in the meantime. You need to stop drinking the kool-aid dude! lol.

[Plowright]

Hey GIT still waiting for that star who played 25 mins..? Fancy answering my question or you just going to ignore it and run away

[MadBOBCATfanUK]

Completely going away from the debate anyone know anything more about the stomach problems he's been having? I know that it could be something minor but the thought it could be something like this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/8953873/Darren-Fletcher-fighting-to-save-his-Manchester-United-career-after-contracting-chronic-illness.html makes me really scared.

Oh and Tyrus blocks shots at a ridiculous rate, quick explosive leaper, reminds me a bit of Kirilenko with the fact that he's an undersized power forward that wants to play SF. Although Andrei moves his feet a lot quicker.

[G Wuh Wuh Wuh Wallace]

good maybe we can waive his contract for medical reasons.

[gm in training]

Hey GIT still waiting for that star who played 25 mins..? Fancy answering my question or you just going to ignore it and run away

sorry i've haven't been online , i would of responded alot earlier .

yao , grant hill made the all-star gm without playing any min does that count lol .

forreal, i can name about 15-30 players who became all-stars after avg 25 min a game. my point was that his min vs production output were all-star like , you lost the whole concept .

[QC Thundercats]

gmit - I wanted to take a look at your claims objectively and try to see what you are looking at. I understand maybe if you are a big Tyrus fan, or maybe you are enticed by his flashes of talent and potential, but there is a ton more circumstantial evidence that points his trajectory the other way.

I can say that I too thought he had some elite physical talent and decent skill set coming out of college, and perhaps potential to become a really nice player. He is long, a great leaper, fast, and has a good midrange shooting touch.

The problem is, that despite a nice toolkit to become great, this doesn't always translate to becoming a star. Other variables, like basketball IQ, willingness to listen and learn, buying in to a team concept, and selflessness - all the variables that can separate elite talent - are just as important as physical talent.

Take Lamar Odom. His talent and abilities are hall of fame caliber - at 6'10, he has point guard ball handling and passing skills, he has 3 point shooting range, can be unstoppable off the dribble or in the post, can be a double digit rebounder, and can score 20-30 points in his sleep. But he will never be considered for the hall because the extra variables aren't there. He didn't always buy in to the team, didn't have the drive, and never put everything together.


his minutes compared to numbers are superstar like before the 11-12 season.

This claim is what everyone is objecting to, and why it seems like they're all piling on. You can't just make a claim like this, even if it is just an opinion, without Tyrus ever showing any trend, consistency, or enough flash to be considered a superstar, or enough to even project that he could get there one day. A superstar is a top 10-15 player, and it takes 2-3 seasons of high level consistency and game changing ability, with actual results, to be considered a superstar. A few good games can never put a player into consideration for a superstar.


before 11-12 season, he was avg less than 25 min for his career while shooting about 46% , 10 points,6 rebs,1ast,1stl,and 1.5 blocks. im not sure if you know but thats amazing , i guarentee that you can't find a current player right now who avg under 25 min and put up numbers as good or better(i can think of about 2 but you called me out ).

Now to go deeper into the numbers, the bolded numbers aren't really that amazing. Even simply doubling them, it would be 20 points and 12 rebounds in 50 minutes, which are obviously averages for more than a game. While nice, they aren't superstar numbers, especially since his production wouldn't stay at the same level with more minutes.

Looking at your claim of him being a star for his stats in under 25 minutes, this means that you believe his production based on his minutes must be elite. So then this means that extending his stats per-36-minutes should show this great efficiency and production. But the stats don't back this up, and shows that they are very pedestrian. Here are the comparisons with other tall, athletic forwards:

Per 36 Minutes (Career)
Tyrus Thomas
14.1 pts; 8.9 rbds; 2.4 blks; 44% FG

Carl Landry
17.6 pts; 7.4 rbds; .7 blks; 54% FG

Leon Powe
16.1 pts; 9.9 rbds; .9 blks; 52% FG

J.J. Hickson
15.2 pts; 9.7 rbds; 1 blcks; 49% FG

Hakim Warrick
16.9 pts; 7.2 rbds; .5 blks; 49% FG

Stromile Swift
15.3 pts; 8.4 rbds; 2.3 blks; 47% FG

Every player averaged more points than Tyrus, and every player shot a better percentage than Tyrus. His rebounding numbers were in the middle, and only his blocks were the highest. The thing is, although all of the above players are athletic and long, and had a lot of potential, none of them are superstars. None have even made an allstar game. All have faced injuries, different coaches, being traded (except Stromile), basically the same circumstances as Tyrus. After 6 seasons, most players establish who they are, and I can't see how Tyrus is going to suddenly turn into a star now.


then rushed back to play out of position at sf,60 percent of the team was injured and in disarray

To be fair, he is out of position as both a SF and PF. He is a tweener - too light and weak to bang on the block, not skilled enough to be on the perimeter. Plus, he's been wanting to be a SF all through the years.


it took amare about 2 years to regain his form, kobe been dunking alot lately compared 2 the last few years ,bynum is now considered an top player after battling numerous injuries, d-wade battled alot of knee problems in his early years and was almost forgotten as a top tier player. just a few players to name , i have about ten more( and i know somebody might say those are all-stars , but the point im making is that they all regained natural form after a couple or few years)

I know you acknowledged it in your post, but it really isn't a fair comparison, as these players all established themselves as stars before injury. If, as you claim, Tyrus can regain his natural form, then it would be back to his average stats that he's established, and not to exceed them and become a star.


his first coach vinny del negro , there is no reason why vinny is about to get fired from the loaded clipps .chris paul took a least talented team in the hornets further than this clippers teams, vinny cant out coach other teams. larry brown is the wrong coach to start a youth movement with , because he's so set in his ways if he coached your favorite stars when they 1st came in the league, they might not have been stars. do you really think the way r.westbook erratic behavior is that he would started his 1st 2-3 years w/ brown,no! paul silas never coached last year . he had us playing streetball w/ no direction , the only coach i've ever seen let another person coach while he's present.

I do think bad coaches or bad situations can strongly effect how a player produces. But Vinny wasn't his first, or even second coach. Tyrus has played for 5 coaches - Scott Skiles, Jim Boylan, Vinny Del Negro, Larry Brown, and Paul Silas. Lets say we can blame a couple coaches for bad outcomes. However, if you have had 5 coaches, who all have different philosophies and coaching styles, and who have all come to the same conclusion on you, you have to stop blaming the coaches and look at yourself.

The fact of the matter is, if he deserved more than 25 minutes a game, a coach would have played him more. Coaches are trying to keep their jobs, and so they will play the players that give them the best chance to win. So Tyrus' playing time is an indictment of his own play, and cannot be blamed on every coach he's had.

[gm in training]

gmit - I wanted to take a look at your claims objectively and try to see what you are looking at. I understand maybe if you are a big Tyrus fan, or maybe you are enticed by his flashes of talent and potential, but there is a ton more circumstantial evidence that points his trajectory the other way.

I can say that I too thought he had some elite physical talent and decent skill set coming out of college, and perhaps potential to become a really nice player. He is long, a great leaper, fast, and has a good midrange shooting touch.

The problem is, that despite a nice toolkit to become great, this doesn't always translate to becoming a star. Other variables, like basketball IQ, willingness to listen and learn, buying in to a team concept, and selflessness - all the variables that can separate elite talent - are just as important as physical talent.

Take Lamar Odom. His talent and abilities are hall of fame caliber - at 6'10, he has point guard ball handling and passing skills, he has 3 point shooting range, can be unstoppable off the dribble or in the post, can be a double digit rebounder, and can score 20-30 points in his sleep. But he will never be considered for the hall because the extra variables aren't there. He didn't always buy in to the team, didn't have the drive, and never put everything together.



This claim is what everyone is objecting to, and why it seems like they're all piling on. You can't just make a claim like this, even if it is just an opinion, without Tyrus ever showing any trend, consistency, or enough flash to be considered a superstar, or enough to even project that he could get there one day. A superstar is a top 10-15 player, and it takes 2-3 seasons of high level consistency and game changing ability, with actual results, to be considered a superstar. A few good games can never put a player into consideration for a superstar.



Now to go deeper into the numbers, the bolded numbers aren't really that amazing. Even simply doubling them, it would be 20 points and 12 rebounds in 50 minutes, which are obviously averages for more than a game. While nice, they aren't superstar numbers, especially since his production wouldn't stay at the same level with more minutes.

Looking at your claim of him being a star for his stats in under 25 minutes, this means that you believe his production based on his minutes must be elite. So then this means that extending his stats per-36-minutes should show this great efficiency and production. But the stats don't back this up, and shows that they are very pedestrian. Here are the comparisons with other tall, athletic forwards:

Per 36 Minutes (Career)
Tyrus Thomas
14.1 pts; 8.9 rbds; 2.4 blks; 44% FG

Carl Landry
17.6 pts; 7.4 rbds; .7 blks; 54% FG

Leon Powe
16.1 pts; 9.9 rbds; .9 blks; 52% FG

J.J. Hickson
15.2 pts; 9.7 rbds; 1 blcks; 49% FG

Hakim Warrick
16.9 pts; 7.2 rbds; .5 blks; 49% FG

Stromile Swift
15.3 pts; 8.4 rbds; 2.3 blks; 47% FG

Every player averaged more points than Tyrus, and every player shot a better percentage than Tyrus. His rebounding numbers were in the middle, and only his blocks were the highest. The thing is, although all of the above players are athletic and long, and had a lot of potential, none of them are superstars. None have even made an allstar game. All have faced injuries, different coaches, being traded (except Stromile), basically the same circumstances as Tyrus. After 6 seasons, most players establish who they are, and I can't see how Tyrus is going to suddenly turn into a star now.



To be fair, he is out of position as both a SF and PF. He is a tweener - too light and weak to bang on the block, not skilled enough to be on the perimeter. Plus, he's been wanting to be a SF all through the years.



I know you acknowledged it in your post, but it really isn't a fair comparison, as these players all established themselves as stars before injury. If, as you claim, Tyrus can regain his natural form, then it would be back to his average stats that he's established, and not to exceed them and become a star.



I do think bad coaches or bad situations can strongly effect how a player produces. But Vinny wasn't his first, or even second coach. Tyrus has played for 5 coaches - Scott Skiles, Jim Boylan, Vinny Del Negro, Larry Brown, and Paul Silas. Lets say we can blame a couple coaches for bad outcomes. However, if you have had 5 coaches, who all have different philosophies and coaching styles, and who have all come to the same conclusion on you, you have to stop blaming the coaches and look at yourself.

The fact of the matter is, if he deserved more than 25 minutes a game, a coach would have played him more. Coaches are trying to keep their jobs, and so they will play the players that give them the best chance to win. So Tyrus' playing time is an indictment of his own play, and cannot be blamed on every coach he's had.

first off i think you using odom wasn't good because he has 2 rings and his stats always been all-star like . he had about 4-5 seasons where he was snubbed from the all-star game and in his early years because he played on bad teams . odom wasn't a bad teammate or a head case till he reached dallas. he was an all-star type player who bought in to becoming a 6th man(and resigned back in 09,when he could of started elsewhere) and was very unselfish on the court . for the most part he may have had the chance to be a hall of famer but he didn't have any all-star appearances. and not making an all-star game doesn't make him any less because players like josh smith have none, deron williams only made it 3 times in his 8 seasons, zach randolph only made the all-star team once in his career . sometimes it depends on certain situations for recognition but lamar's play or attitude wasn't why he didn't become all-star.

2nd that per 36 min game avg was based off his whole career . i said to disregard his only bad season 11-12(brought down his avg) , and you added it anyway to prove a point. the whole point of me being in defense of tyrus was because he had one bad year. but, if you want to go off of 36 per min avg tyrus would of made the all-star game in 10' and 11'(dont forget the steals). he would of definitely made all-defensive team about 3-4 times.

lean powe was actually really good in his early years but injuries side tracked him because he would of been a celtic starter years ago. some of these 36 per min are very misleading because if he avg about 15 min a game and shot 3 for 6 give or take ,there basing his production off of 54% shooting and equating it with 36 min. also in 10' powe played in only 20 games and had a reb avg of 9.3 and 11' wit memphis he played 16 games and avg 22 points. so that was bad comparison.just like brook lopez he played only 5 games in 2011-12 but avg 3.6 reb but if you would of 36 per his stats he would had a very low rebounding output and we all know for the season he wasn't going to avg 4.8 rebounds.


carl landry im not even goin to start with cause you lost that just adding him the discussion because he's a good offensive post player who don't offer anything else.

hakims was bad also .

hickson was good but he didn't avg you more points,blocks or steals then tyrus (before 2011-12). just rebounds .

after 6 seasons players who made the all-star game or game escalated;chauncy billups, antonio davis ,anthony mason,ben wallace, tyson chandler,marcus camby,gerald wallace and thats to name a few . alot of these players where either injured oft or in the wrong situation. so nothings not possible .


during scott skiles and jim era tyrus was more in the prospect stage so by default it wasn't against tyrus. . tyrus play wasn't why he got traded , he fell out of the team's interest when he broke his arm ,and the organization felt that he was careless and boneheaded , plus they knew he was in his contract year and that he would command big money. nothing warranted that tyrus had a low iq ? he always played great man d,weakside help ,never foul prone, hustle, and played the passing lanes that doesn't sound like low b-ball IQ to me .

low basketball IQ to me is russell westbrook(horrible game management,bad shot selection, the foul in the playoffs),amare( doesn't box out ,or weakside help after like 10 yrs), lamar odom ( just not giving a f**k sometimes), javale mcgee ( being javale mcgee). tyrus doesn't qualify as low basket b-ball IQ, but yeah he probably made some bad decisions like everyone but nothing that can brand him.

your turn .

[QC Thundercats]

first off i think you using odom wasn't good because he has 2 rings and his stats always been all-star like ...for the most part he may have had the chance to be a hall of famer but he didn't have any all-star appearances.

I think using Odom is very apropo. I wasn't using him as an example because of his all star snubs or championship rings. I was strictly making the comparison of athletes with elite physical talent or skills who never realized their full potential. I was saying Odom has the tools to be great, but it was other variables that held him back. I don't think he was a bad teammate or selfish on the court or anything. But you have to admit, something was missing, that drive to become great like what Jordan, Kobe, and Lebron have. And he did have issues with going to the bench at first, but settled into the role after Kobe had a good talk with him. And you yourself said Odom has low basketball IQ and doesn't care sometimes. Those are among the many other variables outside of basketball talent and skill that I'm talking about.

So like Odom, I compared Tyrus to him because he has a nice toolset, but he hasn't realized his full potential to date, and may never reach it because of other variables (not necessarily the same as Odom's, but something outside of talent and skills).

Lets take Odom out of the equation if you still don't see it. First, as a disclaimer, player comparisons are hard because no players are exactly alike. My examples are different kinds of players at different positions, but what they have in common is that they all have elite physical talent or skills, and there was something that kept them back. Sean Williams is a player who's built almost exactly like Tyrus. Extremely long and athletic, could block shots at an incredible level, good shooting percentage. But outside of this elite physical talent, other variables were missing, and he couldn't stick in the league. James White is one of the greatest athletes in the world. But despite his elite physical skills and decent shooting, he never stuck in the NBA because he was missing something outside of that talent. Gerald Green is a slightly better version of White, and is only now making it back in the league and hoping to hold on.

I used Odom because he is the most well known example, but there are many players who were held back because of other attributes. Rasheed Wallace could've been an all time great, and I think he had more talent and a better skill set than Duncan and Garnett. But it was those other variables that held him back. See also Darius Miles and Derrick Coleman. I'm trying to paint a spectrum here, players that are better and worse than Tyrus, but all who had elite level tools, and didn't reach their potential. The point I'm making is that having these skills doesn't mean anything if certain other variables are missing.

And in my opinion, I think Tyrus will be held back because of these other variables just like them.


and not making an all-star game doesn't make him any less because players like josh smith have none, deron williams only made it 3 times in his 8 seasons, zach randolph only made the all-star team once in his career . sometimes it depends on certain situations for recognition but lamar's play or attitude wasn't why he didn't become all-star.

I don't consider Josh Smith a superstar, and I don't think you would either. For Deron, 3 all star games and counting I think is pretty awesome. He may get to 6 or 7 all star games by the time he's done, and I do consider him a star. But I don't see how he's in this discussion, because he's reached his potential and hasn't been sidetracked by variables to hold him back from being a star, unlike everyone else. With Lamar and Zach, they've established themselves as all star caliber, unlike what Tyrus has done thus far. Everyone above has proven themselves with results and consistency, and teams have to gameplan against them.

Its not because Tyrus hasn't made an allstar team that we think he isn't going to be a star. Its because he hasn't established that he's their equal in his basketball abilities. And because you claimed that he's played like a superstar, then it means you think he's better than Lamar Odom, Zach Randolph, Josh Smith, and the like. And none of us agree with that assessment


2nd that per 36 min game avg was based off his whole career . i said to disregard his only bad season 11-12(brought down his avg) , and you added it anyway to prove a point.

Okay, I'll take off the 11/12 season:
Tyrus Thomas
14.8 pts; 9.4 rbds; 2.5 blks; 46%FG

Carl Landry
17.6 pts; 7.4 rbds; .7 blks; 54% FG

Leon Powe
16.1 pts; 9.9 rbds; .9 blks; 52% FG

J.J. Hickson
15.2 pts; 9.7 rbds; 1 blks; 49% FG

Hakim Warrick
16.9 pts; 7.2 rbds; .5 blks; 49% FG

Stromile Swift
15.3 pts; 8.4 rbds; 2.3 blks; 47% FG

And... nothing changes. His ranking is exactly the same. Last in points and shooting %, in the middle in rebounds, and best in blocks (and better in steals than everyone, but 1.5 isn't considered greatness). But now the stats are skewed in Tyrus' favor because I didn't take off everyone else's worst season in order to make it even. So even despite this unfairness to the other players, everyone else's stats were still overall better than Tyrus.


the whole point of me being in defense of tyrus was because he had one bad year. but, if you want to go off of 36 per min avg tyrus would of made the all-star game in 10' and 11'(dont forget the steals). he would of definitely made all-defensive team about 3-4 times.

This wouldn't work either, because if you use his per 36 stats as his normal averages, then you would have to take everyone else in the league's per 36 stats as their normal averages, and so they still would be above his. And I don't see how he would've made the allstar game over other players who actually produced better stats with their normal averages. Defensively, maybe 9.4 rebounds, 2.5 blocks, and 1.5 steals gets him into consideration for all defense, but not a definite 3-4 times. But like I said, its all relative, you have to use either his actual stats, or use everyone else's per 36 stats to make it even, and he doesn't make the cut.

[QC Thundercats]

lean powe was actually really good in his early years but injuries side tracked him because he would of been a celtic starter years ago. some of these 36 per min are very misleading because if he avg about 15 min a game and shot 3 for 6 give or take ,there basing his production off of 54% shooting and equating it with 36 min. also in 10' powe played in only 20 games and had a reb avg of 9.3 and 11' wit memphis he played 16 games and avg 22 points. so that was bad comparison.

Powe's numbers aren't insignificant. Even with injuries, Powe has avereged 14 minutes per game, just 6 less than Tyrus' 20. I think 14 minutes is enough of a sample size to show what you can produce. Maybe 5-10 minutes a game would skew per 36 minute stats out of whack, but if you're getting about 15 minutes, then the numbers would normalize over time, and the fact is that Powe's numbers never dropped, and he produced whenever he got time. And if he never got hurt, I think his per 36 minute stats were reachable by him.


carl landry im not even goin to start with cause you lost that just adding him the discussion because he's a good offensive post player who don't offer anything else.

Yes, they play differently, but they are both 6'9 forwards. The difference is, Landry didn't let any variables hold him back. He busted his ass, and was able to become the solid steady player he is. Tyrus may have more talent and potential, but other things are holding him back.


hakims was bad also .

No two players are exactly alike. We're not going to get exact comparisons with anybody. The fact is, Hakim is the same height and weight as Tyrus, both tall skinny forwards who like to stray from the paint. I think its a great comparison. And Hakim has produced better than Tyrus.


hickson was good but he didn't avg you more points,blocks or steals then tyrus (before 2011-12). just rebounds .

The thing is, this counts. Your claim is Tyrus' stats per minute are superstar level, and you didn't count his normal stats, but with Hickson you are. Per 36 shows normalizes everything and shows their efficiency per minute. Hickson's per 36 was higher, regardless of actual playing time - he produced more per minute with less playing time, and produced more per minute with more playing time, regardless of what year it was. And I don't consider Hickson a superstar, despite better stats than Tyrus[/QUOTE]


after 6 seasons players who made the all-star game or game escalated;chauncy billups, antonio davis ,anthony mason,ben wallace, tyson chandler,marcus camby,gerald wallace and thats to name a few . alot of these players where either injured oft or in the wrong situation. so nothings not possible .

I don't think its impossible to make an allstar team after 6 seasons. As you listed, many players can do it. But all of these players had established themselves more than Tyrus at 6 seasons. Can Tyrus become an allstar? As Jim Carrey said in Dumb and Dumber:

http://zipmeme.com/uploads/generated/g1334797991599414388.jpg

But in my opinion I don't see it.


during scott skiles and jim era tyrus was more in the prospect stage so by default it wasn't against tyrus. . tyrus play wasn't why he got traded , he fell out of the team's interest when he broke his arm ,and the organization felt that he was careless and boneheaded , plus they knew he was in his contract year and that he would command big money. nothing warranted that tyrus had a low iq ? he always played great man d,weakside help ,never foul prone, hustle, and played the passing lanes that doesn't sound like low b-ball IQ to me .

This list shows that there is an excuse or reason for everything that hasn't gone well for Tyrus. It seems like nothing was his fault, and outside influences were responsible every single time for 6 years. I think that goes past coincidence at this point. Circumstances can hold you back to a degree, but at some point, a player has to push past that, and Tyrus has yet to do that.


low basketball IQ to me is russell westbrook(horrible game management,bad shot selection, the foul in the playoffs),amare( doesn't box out ,or weakside help after like 10 yrs), lamar odom ( just not giving a f**k sometimes), javale mcgee ( being javale mcgee). tyrus doesn't qualify as low basket b-ball IQ, but yeah he probably made some bad decisions like everyone but nothing that can brand him.

I don't see how you can list all of that, and not see Tyrus right there with them. I've seen Tyrus get the ball on the block, then keep stepping away from the basket to shoot a horrible fade away from 20 feet instead of in close. I've seen him overestimate his ballhandling countless times, and end up turning it over instead of getting to the basket. He could score easier, but he doesn't know how. That is basketball IQ. And he is better on defense, but I've seen him be a space cadet out there and miss assignments. I often question what he is doing out on the court, maybe you don't see the same things I do.