Looking at the Jazz for our frontcourt help

[Stylesg1234]

I was looking over some different sports sites this morning to get some different opinions on the Bobcats win last night and i ran into an interesting article on SI.com...the article was about how the Jazz have assembled 1 of the best young frontcourts in the NBA...they were mentioning how deep they are with Al Jefferson / Paul Milsap / Enis Kanter and Derrick Favors. They also mentioned how tough it was going to be for the Jazz to keep such a talented and deep front court intact after this season

Al Jefferson and Paul Milsap are both free agents this summer and its going to be nearly impossible for the Jazz to sign both but it would also be a bad way for them to spend their $$...They really seem to love Derrick Favors game and his upside and i think its a given that he stays with the Jazz...they also have Kanter locked up for a couple more seasons , so he isnt going anywhere..That leaves them with a tough decision this summer...

The Jazz wont be able to keep both Jefferson and Milsap and who knows if they want to keep either guy with the emergence of Favors...but my guess is they will make an offer to 1 of those guys ..They have plenty of salary cap space and will be able to offer the Max to Jefferson ( but who knows if Jefferson wants to stay in Utah ) so that will leave Millsap out there for the taking ..

Now comes the Bobcats who also will have $$ to spend this offseason and could afford to offer the max to Jefferson..I think we all can agree that we need to improve our frontcourt this offseason and we need to find a guy who has a great post game and can score in bunches..Jefferson fits that mold to perfection and i think he would be the perfect addition to this team...both Jefferson and Millsap are 27 years old so both guys have 5-6 years left of high quality play...If we could get Jefferson i really think that would be the piece that would make us a contender in the East...but even if we cant get Jefferson i think we should take a serious look at Millsap..he is only 6'8 but if u have watched him play he plays much bigger then that and has a great game around the basket...since Millsap has been getting 30 + minutes over the last 3 seasons he has averaged around 16-17 points and around 9 rbds a game ...so in my opinion adding Milsap would be a major upgrade for us as well

I was wondering what every1 else thought about this?...would you guys be interested in adding 1 of these guys this offseason??..If you do want to add 1 of these guys how would you want to go about it?...we could wait until free agency and try to sign 1 of them outright but we would have to compete with alot of other teams ...and would Jefferson or Millsap want to come here?....Jefferson will be getting the max from whatever team he goes to...the Jazz will obviously be able to offer him the most $$ but aside from the Jazz every other team interested will be offering him the same contract..so it will come down to where he wants to play..and i doubt that will be Charlotte...Millsap will also have alot of interest and we could offer him a really good deal as well...

So would u guys want to wait until the offseason and pursure these guys....or would u maybe want to trade with the Jazz??...we could offer them our expiring contracts of Diop and Reggie Williams...or Henderson or some sort of package with both...In this scenerio we would just have to hope that 1 of them resigns with us or have a verbal agreement with Jefferson or Millsap that they will sign longterm..Or would u guys rather use our $$ / expiring deals for another player or players???...just wanted to get some thoughts from every1 bc i think adding 1 of these guys would be huge for us

[SWedd523]

I think Jefferson or Millsap would be great gets but I wouldn't give either one a max deal

[ammofan]

I'd rather have Millsap than Jefferson but IDK if Millsap is worth the money he will ask for.

[Stylesg1234]

It seems like in this day and age that teams are handing out max deals like its nothing....as a fan i am always hesitant to give any1 a max deal..its such a risky thing to do...but in order to get Jefferson or Millsap we would have to offer a max deal....there will definately be a team or teams who offer both of these guys max deals...so if we want 1 of them we would have to pay the $$$...im usually really worried about guys getting their $$ and then getting fat / happy and lazy and then we are stuck with them and their horrible contract ..ala Tyrus Thomas....but on the bright side...Millsap has been getting around 7-8 million a year over the past cpl season and his production hasnt dropped off at all...Jefferson i think already got 1 max deal bc he is makking 15 million this year..and his production hasnt really dropped off either...so i think paying either 1 of these guys big $$$ would be a smart move and either guy would really help this team..

a starting 5 of Kemba / Henderson / MKG / Jefferson or Millsap / Haywood would be really nice...and moving Mullens or Haywood to the bench would make our bench even better as well..Sessions / Gordon / Taylor / Mullens / Biz would be 1 hell of a bench

[Stylesg1234]

Jefferson will definately be getting a max deal....but maybe we could get Millsap for around 11-12 million a year

[Zoolander]

This is his 7th yr. If you offer him a 5yr $55mil to $60mil contact, that's not a max deal?

[Stylesg1234]

actually no...a max deal for a guy like Jefferson or Milsap would be a 4 year 58 million dollar deal...thats an annual salary of roughly 14.7 million a year ....i was thinking that Milsap would be worth more along the lines of a 4 year deal worth about 46 million...thats an annual salary of roughly 11.5 million....thats 3 million less each season and 12 million less over the entire length of the deal

[Zoolander]

Gotcha. Just asking the question. Happy Thanksgiving by the way! To everyone as well!

[Stylesg1234]

same to you my friend...Go Bobcats !!!

[Chef]

i wouldn't want either. neither is the "missing piece" as we still need a franchise player/main guy. they will be way too expensive. i would pay either around 7 mil per year but they will likely get near max deals as others have already mentioned. i would rather have al horford or roy hibbert if we are talking that kind of money.

[Stylesg1234]

We are all entitled to our own opinion and I respect yours ..but I have to disagree ..yes we do need a franchise type guy but the chances of us finding that are slim ..it's not any easy thing to do ..we can build a very good team that can contend for the East title without finding a Lebron James or a Dwight Howard or Kevin Durant ..those guys are nearly impossible to come by..there are 30 NBA teams and probably 10-12 guys of that caliber ..so the odds are not in our favor ..adding a guy like Milsap or Jefferson ( who are both still young @ 27 ) would fill a big weakness on our team and 1 of those guys with the roster we have now and next years draft could really make us a contender right away ..giving 1 of those guys 10-12 mill a year is alot of $$ but to me they are worth it ..and it wouldn't kill our cap either bc we have Gordon and his 12-13 mill coming off the books after next year ..so we would basically be replacing Gordon's contract with Milsap or Jefferson ..would be a great move !!

[OfficialBobcatsHD]

i think jefferson or millsap would be great gets but i wouldn't give either one a max deal

this^^^^^^^^

[Chef]

We are all entitled to our own opinion and I respect yours ..but I have to disagree ..yes we do need a franchise type guy but the chances of us finding that are slim ..it's not any easy thing to do ..we can build a very good team that can contend for the East title without finding a Lebron James or a Dwight Howard or Kevin Durant ..those guys are nearly impossible to come by..there are 30 NBA teams and probably 10-12 guys of that caliber ..so the odds are not in our favor ..adding a guy like Milsap or Jefferson ( who are both still young @ 27 ) would fill a big weakness on our team and 1 of those guys with the roster we have now and next years draft could really make us a contender right away ..giving 1 of those guys 10-12 mill a year is alot of $$ but to me they are worth it ..and it wouldn't kill our cap either bc we have Gordon and his 12-13 mill coming off the books after next year ..so we would basically be replacing Gordon's contract with Milsap or Jefferson ..would be a great move !!

never said it was easy. but we would not contend for the east by adding milsap or jefferson and pick in the mid lotto. at best we would be a 3 or 4 seed and i have no interest in becoming the hawks.

[Stylesg1234]

Going from the worst team in NBA history to a 3-4 seed in the East in a matter of 2-3 years would be outstanding....and we wouldnt be the hawks..we would be the Bobcats..a totally different team built a different way ..we could add Jefferson and our draft pick and get us a 3-4 seed and maybe win a 1st round series then go into the season after that and use the 10-15 so million we will have to spend and use it to add the player that would get us over the hump...and by then we will prob have detroit or portlands 1st round pick ( giving us 2 first round picks ) ...

Im not going to ramble on about it but i just dont see how adding Jefferson or Milsap would be a bad thing..it would improve our team big time and with draft picks and a cpl other free agents we would be a damn good team...and getting a 3 seed isnt a bad thing...if we get in the dance and have home court for a series who knows what might happen....its not like we would be 12 games under 500 and getting a crappy 8 seed and getting swept in the 1st round

Are u with the crowd that wants to tank season after season until we land the 1st pick and maybe draft a superstar??....im just trying to understand what your plan would be to become a better team...feel free to share what you would like to do to improve our team during the offseason and over the next cpl years

[Stylesg1234]

And i didnt mean that in a sarcastic way and wasnt trying to be a jerk....was honestly wondering what your plan would be or what u want to do with our team since u think Jefferson and Milsap arent good moves

[Chef]

And i didnt mean that in a sarcastic way and wasnt trying to be a jerk....was honestly wondering what your plan would be or what u want to do with our team since u think Jefferson and Milsap arent good moves

i agree with swedd on draft, etc. i never said tank. i just don't want to spend a ton of money to be a 3 seed just like the hawks (that is why i used that example). 2008 up and comer 8 seed gave boston are run in the first round, then 3 and 4 seeds for 4 years overpaying their whole team along the way. no thanks.

we are no where near a playoff team. i don't want to commit the money to milsap or jefferson that it will take to sign them. i am fine playing hard, losing to good teams beating bad teams and collecting high picks for the next couple of years.

think of this kemba, mkg, mullens and JT are all young 20's (late teens too). if they get it together in 3 years like you say, milsap or jefferson will be 30-31 and on the decline. right when we would be hitting our stride they would be up for another contract on declining abilities. not a good place to be.

[Stylesg1234]

i totally understand what u are saying...and i agree that we arent a playoff team ( although this team could surprise us ) but with the addition of Millsap or Jefferson along with whatever we can get for Diop and Williams's expiring deals and our draft pick we would definately be a playoff team...while i understand what u are saying about those 2 guys being 30-31 when we start being a contender...its also very possible that we are a contender in 2 or 3 years when those guys will be 29 -30 and still have good years left...i am just trying to figure out some ways to improve our roster after this season

I guess instead of signing 1 of those guys we could just trade Diop / Williams ( which is 11.5 million expiring ) for a solid player and a draft pick..or just a really good player or players..like we did with maggette..and build that way and thru the draft.....either way we look at it we have alot of flexibility with our expiring deals ( Diop and Williams = 11.5 million this year and Gordon = 13 million next year )...our salary cap space and our draft picks as well as Portland and Detroits picks....with all that flexibility and Cho as our GM i think the future is very bright....i have confidence that Cho will make the right moves and keeps this moving in the right direction

[Black]

Either would be a nice piece for us, but I would settle for the cheaper one. If money was not an issue, I would lean towards Jefferson because he has the size and length to play the four or the five.

What other bigs are due for free agency?

[Chef]

I guess instead of signing 1 of those guys we could just trade Diop / Williams ( which is 11.5 million expiring ) for a solid player and a draft pick..or just a really good player or players..like we did with maggette..and build that way and thru the draft.....either way we look at it we have alot of flexibility with our expiring deals ( Diop and Williams = 11.5 million this year and Gordon = 13 million next year )...our salary cap space and our draft picks as well as Portland and Detroits picks....with all that flexibility and Cho as our GM i think the future is very bright....i have confidence that Cho will make the right moves and keeps this moving in the right direction

this is exactly what we should do. although i would add sessions, hendo and mullens to the trade list but i know many disagree. stay flexible. big money deal for long years destroys flexibility.

[JGib23]

What other bigs are due for free agency?

Carl Landry ( who we have went after before)
JJ Hickson (ditto)
Chris Kaman
Nikola Pekovic
David West
Antawn Jamison
Andray Blatche
Josh Smith
Byron Mullins
Tyler Hansbrough
Dwight Howard
Andrew Bowling Bynum

Maybe I'm missing some ...

After Dwight Howard, I would rank Al Jefferson as the 2nd best(considering Bynums knee and risk associated).

I would rather give Jefferson 14 mil per than give Mully the 8 or 9 per that he will likely get.

[Stylesg1234]

Mullens will be a restricted free agent ..so he isn't going anywhere ..he will get his 4 million qualifying offer and remain with us at least through next year ..if Mullens shows as much improvement next year as he has this year and say is averaging 17 pts 9 rbds then we would have to consider giving him a long term deal ..I would hope he would give us a discount bc we gave him his chance but who knows ..if he does get to that 16-17 point 8-9 Rbd average then I think he would be worth a 4 year deal worth about 28-30 mill ..

I am all for building thru the draft and not just spending $$ to spend it but the reality is that we have 12 mill coming off the books this year and alot more then that the year after ..so not only do I think we should sign a stud big man this offseason but after next year we are going to have to spend that $$ somewhere ..we can't and won't be going from a 50 mill payroll this year to a 20 mill payroll in the 2014/15 season ...I haven't looked at 2 years from now but I think this years free agent class for big men is too good to pass up ..with Jefferson / Milsap / Hickson / Pekovic / Landry / Josh Smith ect...I say we take advantage of it and sign 1 of these guys this offseason ..we have plenty of cap space and flexibility to make it happen after we sign 1 of these guys we will still have plenty of space and flexibility

[JGib23]

StylesG- I know Mully Is restricted but as shallow as the talent is at the 4/5, I can see someone offering him a big contract. I don't want to pay him $8M per season.

[Stylesg1234]

Ahh now I gotcha ..well luckily this offseason there seems to be quite a bit of talent on the free agent market ..so hopefully no1 offers him a deal ..but if they do then it's something we seriously have to consider ..I really like Mully and really like his game ..to watch him improve at the rate he has under Dunlap is impressive ..and just like u mentioned about the Talent being shallow @ the 4/5 that's another reason why we would have to consider matching any deal that he gets offered ..he will more then likely avg 13 and 9 this year ..and I can easily see him increasing his scoring year by year ..he is only 23 years old .. We have been paying Diop 7-8 mill for multiple seasons with zero production ..I wouldn't be opposed to paying Mully the same salary. Bc we would actually get our $$'s worth ..we can't develop talent and just let it walk ..but I do understand we also have to be smart about it

[cltblkhscoach]

Even when Byron becomes unrestricted they won't let him go. Cho named him a core piece last season before his improvements this year.

[Stylesg1234]

I wouldn't let him go ..finding guys that are 7 foot who can shoot like he can and who can now play pretty good in the post ( which will continue to improve ) and with his rebounding improving to 9 a game and his defense looking much better I think he is very much an asset to this team ..and for him to only be 23 and basically playing in his 2nd year as a pro I really think this guy can become a really good PF/ C and should be a part of this team for many years to come

[JGib23]

Games like tonight is why I don't want to give Byron the dollars that he will ultimately get...

He was horrible, the box score doesn't looks as bad as it was in real life. His defense was some of the worst post defense that I have ever seen.

Also Coach Dunlap needs to tell him to stop shooting 3's, in fact he shouldn't be allowed to shoot unless at least one foot is in the paint.

[ammofan]

Mullens aint going anywhere.

[playoffs...PLAYOFFS?]

you gotta be patient with mullens - 2nd year in the league (OKC doesn't count), he's already improved on his defense, he has the willingness to improve. in my mind, he's way better than tyrus thomas and much cheaper.

[JGib23]

you gotta be patient with mullens - 2nd year in the league (OKC doesn't count), he's already improved on his defense, he has the willingness to improve. in my mind, he's way better than tyrus thomas and much cheaper.

What has he improved at? He's playing more minutes and is basically putting up the same per minute stats as last year but, shooting a worse %.

If we could keep him for around 4 or 5 Million as the first big off the bench, I would be ok.

I do not want him as a starter here for the long term.

[playoffs...PLAYOFFS?]

I agree that he should not be our starter for the long term...he has improved in rebounds/ppg/3pt fg %. i don't disagree his fg % is well below what it should be for a PF and this HAS to improve.

but keep in mind, he is an expiring contract next year, so he is an asset. a bit expensive this year for $2.2M but at the time of the trade he was well worth the risk. him and our centers are the weakest link in our teams. i have no doubt he will improve on defense and i'm sure that Cho will address this soon enough (Warrick being the first move). in the mean time, we are outperforming expectations and our losses are not a result of BJ.

[SWedd523]

What has he improved at? He's playing more minutes and is basically putting up the same per minute stats as last year but, shooting a worse %.

If we could keep him for around 4 or 5 Million as the first big off the bench, I would be ok.

I do not want him as a starter here for the long term.

His per36 rebounding has increased by two to 9.9. That's pretty significant considering he's playing a lot more and should've expected to see a slight decrease in production.

His average of 8.9 so far is tied for 24th in the league. He's averaging (the same or) more rebounds than Carlos Boozer, Al Horford, Tyson Chandler, Roy Hibbert, Anthony Davis, Chris Bosh, Josh Smith, David West, LaMarcus Aldridge, Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, Serge Ibaka, and Kevin Garnett

[JGib23]

I noted his increased rebounding in the other thread.

He is also missing more shots ( most of which are 3's) which creates more rebounding opportunities for the other team to grab because he's 22 feet from the basket.... I consider this as a push!

Of the players you listed, who would you not want on our team this season in favor of BJ?

I would take every player you listed over Byron. So despite his rebounding advantage, he's not as good as them at playing basketball.

[SWedd523]

You missed the point I was making

[jmanvelocity]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ctp5dre

[JGib23]

You missed the point I was making

I must have. What is it?

[gm in training]

wow that crazy that you mentioned that because like a month ago i started a thread called " al jefferson" and got heavily criticized by some who actually agree in your thread? . but at the time i felt that kemba was expendable(not anymore) but we can still trade one of our 1st's in a very weak draft and some players to acquire jefferson or even maybe millsap.

[SWedd523]

but we can still trade our 1st in a very weak draft and some players to acquire jefferson or even maybe millsap.
Actually I'm pretty sure that's not possible.

We can't trade our pick until draft night because Chicago may take it from us.

[gm in training]

Actually I'm pretty sure that's not possible.

We can't trade our pick until draft night because Chicago may take it from us.

could of been talking about detroits or portlands ?

[SWedd523]

could of been talking about detroits or portlands ?
You said "our 1st". Didn't change it to "one of our" until an hour after I quoted you the first time.


A for effort though

[SWedd523]

Why is this in Bobcats Talk?


We have a Trade Discussion Forum.

[gm in training]

You said "our 1st". Didn't change it to "one of our" until an hour after I quoted you the first time.


A for effort though

it really dont make a difference because whether i changed it or not the reality is, they're still in our possession . so i could of left it at ours and still been right and you still would of been wrong.

A for effort though

[SWedd523]

Then why change it to "one of ours" after the fact?


http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7849/aceventuralosernew.gif

[SWedd523]

Also, let's move the trade conversations to the newly minted trade thread