Matt Carroll Signed for 6 years!!!

[TheBeagle]

ESPN is scrawling in their Bottomline that Bobcats and Carroll have agreed to a 6-year contract!!! No verification could be found at this time online, but I'm thinking it's a done deal. This bodes well for Crash, in that Bob is actually SPENDING, and wisely at that!!!!

[WarioVsMooChicken]

YES!

We have one key piece locked up.

[dvdbumpus]

Yeah, I couldn't find anything either. Hopefully someone keeps us posted.

[twebb]

Amazing what scrolls across the bottomline at 1:30 in the AM

[timang]

yo, twebb welcome to the board!

hopefully this is a confirmed news, now we only have to worry about Crash!

guys, how much do you think he was signed for? i think it's somewhere on the 4-5 mil/year

[pree]

I've heard the deal is worth $25-million dollars with a team option somewhere in there. Working on it.

[Grandmama]

6 year 27 mil

http://www.charlotte.com/bobcats/story/184513.html


Nice!

[Alex]

Awesome, it's great that we get to see him in a Bobcats uniform for 6 more years.

[Dead_Real]

Well deserved all we need is for Crash to resign and this would be an amazing offseason for the Cats.

[Mustachio]

am i the only one that doesnt love this.

i mean we just dropped 4.5 mil per on our 3rd option off the bench. seems like too much to me.

With J-rich, Crash, Morrison, Hermann, and Dudley. hes not gonna see near as much PT this season... i dont know, just seems like kind of an unnecessary amount for that kind of production.

[thebigabd]

Mustachio,

Very good shooters are always needed in the NBA.. He is a great shooting guard to bring in off the bench.

[Dead_Real]

am i the only one that doesnt love this.

i mean we just dropped 4.5 mil per on our 3rd option off the bench. seems like too much to me.

With J-rich, Crash, Morrison, Hermann, and Dudley. hes not gonna see near as much PT this season... i dont know, just seems like kind of an unnecessary amount for that kind of production.

Carroll will be the back up to J-Rich at the 2 guard spot and he's productive when given minutes as shown last year I don't see a problem with this at all.

[spectre]

Agreed, he'll be first off the bench to spell JRich. That makes what used to be our weakest position one of our most strongest. All the other guys play either the 3 or 4.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

Also, Caroll and can play back up point guard at times.

[professajohnn]

i would be absolutely blown away if Adam and Dudley take playing time from Matt. I think that would be a bad way to use him considering the scoring he gave us last season.

[ziggy]

am i the only one that doesnt love this.

i mean we just dropped 4.5 mil per on our 3rd option off the bench. seems like too much to me.
I understand what you mean Mustachio, Matt is a nice luxury, Crash on the other hand is an absolute necessity. I can't really enjoy this Matt signing at all until we get Crash signed on the dotted line.

[pree]

Just a contingency plan, guys, just in case Wallace doesn't come back for whatever reason. Matt's being paid below the league average to provide secondary scoring off the bench and if Wallace leaves, you'll slide J-Rich to the 3 and start Matt. Plans are for him to play 20 minutes off the bench at both guard spots, but if Wallace leaves, the franchise won't be crippled.

[Beekizzle]

am i the only one that doesnt love this.

i mean we just dropped 4.5 mil per on our 3rd option off the bench. seems like too much to me.
I understand what you mean Mustachio, Matt is a nice luxury, Crash on the other hand is an absolute necessity. I can't really enjoy this Matt signing at all until we get Crash signed on the dotted line.




That is exactly how I feel. When I saw the 27mil I was thinking it was too much for a specialist, but they had to match that benchmark set by the Lakers giving Walton 30 mil for 6 years.

I just hope Carrol turns out to be Steve Kerr and NOT Damon Jones

[DaFlameking]

good matt carroll is here to stay. Last option is Gerald Wallace and we're set for life

[WarioVsMooChicken]

SG: Jason Richardson > Matt Carrol > Derek Anderson

Shooting Guard really looks like a strong position for us.

[Fiveman]

Couldn't have happened to a better guy. MJ must have been afraid to loose him if he offered 6 years. I love our bench!

[timang]

Couldn't have happened to a better guy. MJ must have been afraid to loose him if he offered 6 years. I love our bench!


amen to that! :g: now if we could get baby may banned from every krispy kreme outlet then our bench is all set! :biggrin:

welcome to the board fiveman! :)

[dvdbumpus]

SG: Jason Richardson > Matt Carrol > Derek Anderson

Shooting Guard really looks like a strong position for us.


DA can also play some point, and all of them can play SF some. Very versatile to have and to use.

[rallydurham]

Make no bones about it this was an awful signing.

6 years $27 million for a bit player? EWWWW

This is the kind of garbage that keeps teams running in place year after year.


I know you guys have hard ons for Carroll but if you take off your Bobcats fanboy jerseys for a minute you'll realize how terrible this deal is for us.

Don't get me wrong I think Matt Carroll is a quality bench player. The thing is you don't use cap space on easily replaceable bench players. You use MLE's on them once you've assembled a championship contending team.

Basically, we've locked ourselves into a borderline playoff team that probably doesn't have Eastern Conference Finals potential for the next 3-4 years. That just isn't good news from a basketball perspective.

Ultimately, the Bobcats lost sight of the goal of trying to become a Championship contender when they made this deal.

We absolutely have to get a better center and with Darko right there staring us in the face for a highly reasonable ~$8 million/season we just went with a backup SG instead... EW

I'm embarrassed that so many people on here are on board with this signing. Great guy and a pretty good player, but he's not a potential All-Star so its a poor signing anyway you look at it.

Look at the Spurs... they use cap space to lock up Duncan/Parker/Ginobili and then they just fill in with bit players every year to supplement their stars.

Primoz Brezec will NEVER be a starter on a Championship contender, period.

Our goal should have been to get a center from Day 1. Now it's season 4 and we still don't have one.... or even the means to get one.


I hate to think that by signing Matt Carroll we just took ourselves out of the running for the following free agents next year: Josh Childress, Monta Ellis, Shaun Livingston, Kevin Garnett, Shawn Marion, Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison


Boo.

[dnbman]

The MC signing has nothing to do with being able to sign the guys you listed. We already would have been too close to the cap to make a real run at any of those guys without making a trade. MC is only getting a little over $4M/Y. That's not the difference in getting Garnett.

I see your point about role players, but MC has been one of the most competitive players on our roster for the past year. If he's getting us 15 pts a game off the bench while spreading the D, that's worth the contract. On top of that, he'll be a high character guy on the roster.

We can sign one more solid FA before we resign Wallace. We could still get Darko if we wanted to. After this summer, we would not be in the running for many big contract FAs. However, we'll have our core in place at 4 out of 5 positions. Yeah, we need a C, but, like your example of the Spurs, we can get a solid blue collar type C through the draft or FA. We've also got two young bigs on the roster that could fill that spot.

MC's contract wasn't great, but it wasn't especially bad either.

[Tully]

Go look at the NBA rosters for guys coming off the bench. Carroll isn't overpaid. He's getting what he's suppose to get

[123together]

am i the only one that doesnt love this.

i mean we just dropped 4.5 mil per on our 3rd option off the bench. seems like too much to me.

With J-rich, Crash, Morrison, Hermann, and Dudley. hes not gonna see near as much PT this season... i dont know, just seems like kind of an unnecessary amount for that kind of production.

Carroll will be the back up to J-Rich at the 2 guard spot and he's productive when given minutes as shown last year I don't see a problem with this at all.



yes, carroll will back up j-rich and morrison will back up wallace so there will not be as many minutes for carroll as this past season, but still plenty to go around

[TheBeagle]

The great thing is, we're all entitled to our own opinions, and however different our opinions are, they are all concerning the improvement of the franchise. I respect your opinion, rally, but I couldn't disagree with it more. There is nothing wrong with having a lights-out shooter, free-throw-shooter, quality person, great teammate; an exceptional backup, and a very adequate spot starter for a 6yr/$27mill. contract. Who would you have backup JRich? Instead of some anonymous journeyman who we could sign for less years (and in doing so, probably more salary per year), I'd rather have someone enthusiastic about playing here, and whose abilities we know and are familiar (and more importantly) are very pleased with! I'll give you 6 years may be one or two years too many, but the impression I got from his agent is that the salary will shrink, as opposed to being backloaded, as the years progress.

I agree that we need a high-quality center to compete for the Eastern conference, but I'll be damned if Darko is that person. What you see as misplaced optimism in Matt Carroll by the majority, I see an even greater misplaced optimism in Darko. As I've mentioned elsewhere, this guy has shown nothing that should warrant a long-term $10 mill/year contract. Would you rather have a guy who is coming off a season averaging 8 pts, 5 rebs, 2 blks, 45%FG, 61%FT this season, and pay him let's say $42 mill. over 4 seasons; or, have a guy who averaged 12 pts, 3 rebs, 1 stl, 43%FG, 42%3PT, 90%FT this season (both averaged around 25 min./game) whom you know will work his ass off, and do anything to facilitate the team's success for $27mill. over 6 seasons? This answer seems obvious to me: the latter. In your scenario, you state, "I hate to think that by signing Matt Carroll we just took ourselves out of the running for the following free agents next year: Josh Childress, Monta Ellis, Shaun Livingston, Kevin Garnett, Shawn Marion, Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison." First of all, 5 of those players you mentioned are not even on our radar; even if we had unlimited funds, why go after starting guards when we have JRich and Felton locked in for at least the next 2 years; also, KG? Nuh-uh. That would be illogical for both he and us. Marion and Jamison on the other hand are great options, but if we were to sign Darko, like you indicate we should do, which would cost us more money than re-signing Matt, how could we possibly afford either of those guys? That's not fiscally (or logically) sound. MJ and Co. made the smart decision of ensuring quality depth, at a reasonable price. In doing so, we can perhaps make a play for Marion or Jamison to play 4, and move 'Mek to 5, who is an exponentially better fit at 5 than Darko.

Just be patient. MJ didn't promise us a run at the Finals this year. You can ease your mind about Primoz; no one thinks he is the long-term answer at center. Darko may end up being a perenniel All Star, but if we signed him now it would be based only on potential, and potential never won a championship, as the Spurs (to use your example) have shown us. It takes production and teamwork, both areas in which Matt Carroll trumps Darko. Make no bones about it, this was a smart signing! :wink:

[dvdbumpus]

:yeahthat:


Since Vincent considers Fabio as more of a PF than anything else, that should allow for Matt to get plent of minutes. Adam and matt will obviously be the primary guys..and when Walter is on the bench Crash would likely fill the PF spot....May(if healthy) would be playing as noted by Vincent either the 4 or the 5 due to strength and girth.

So Adam will get plenty of minutes, since Wallace will be a backup to the PF spot. Matt will get plenty of minutes, because J-rich will play any one of the 3 spots depending on how things are lined up, but the majority of the time @ SG or SF. Matt can also play both of those and in emergency PG.

So it will open up a lot of oppertunities since we will constantly have people adjusting positions. Only lock I see in one position is Felton.

[rallydurham]

You guys can disagree but you'll be proven wrong over the long haul.

This deal just capped us out for the forseeable future.


$4.5 million might be MC's market value, but thats because other teams would have used mid level exceptions on him. Wasting valuable cap space on a role player is always a mistake.

If we'd let Carroll walk we'd still have wiggle room next season and could have added an elite free agent if we wanted to. Now we're in the same boat as everyone else and we'll have to panic and sign someone on the level of Nazr Mohammed or Rasho Nesterovic next year because we'll only have a MLE available.

Darko is a 21 year old center with valuable shot blocking skills. He also has a post game which we need to make up for Okafor's offensive deficiencies. If the past three seasons have told us anything its that Okafor should remain firmly at the PF position so he can stay healthy and out of foul trouble.

You'd be crazy to say you'd rather have a backup SG when there's tons of similar players available every year over Darko.

Look at anyones free agent board and you'll see Darko listed anywhere from about 3rd to 8th, while Matt Carroll is a borderline top 25 FA.

We coulda had Darko for 5 years, 40 million but instead we essentially capped out with MATT CARROLL.... I don't understand how anyone could overlook what a miscue this was.

We just locked ourselves into the mentality that its okay to be a borderline playoff team. When you're sitting with three young blossoming players in Wallace, Okafor, and Felton you don't make moves that limit your flexibility.

I don't think you guys realize that we are completely capped out for the next three seasons now and this was our last chance to either sign a valuable center or save room to make a run at someone next year.

[rallydurham]

You say we're not counting on Primoz Brezec but that is untrue. We're counting even more on Brezec/Davidson/Hollins because those are the only three centers on the roster and we don't have the cap room to sign anyone else.

Do you know what kind of centers are available for the mid-level exception each year? Hint: Jerome James.

And I highly doubt a lot of players will even consider the Bobcats over teams like the Knicks, Suns, Lakers, etc


Brezec might be our best option at center for the next five years. Scary thought. We might be forced to extend the guy for gods sake.


Also, don't you guys think its a little early to give up on Morrison? Now we have to pray he plays well enough that we can trade him next offseason because theres no way we're going to be able to trade Matt Carroll....

Now we have to be even more cautious about Bob Johnson's cheapness. What if we go 37-45 next season? You think he's gonna wanna drop another $30 million on Walter Hermann? What about another $45-50 million on Raymond Felton? Or the ~$90 million Okafor is gonna command?

We needed to save the money and just pick up someone at the minimum. This signing erased all the positive momentum we had built through the Richardson trade.

I'll still root for the Bobcats but its apparent the next 3-4 seasons are just about being competitive and not about trying to become champions. If we were going to go this route they shouldn't have wasted three seasons not fielding a competitive team and just threw our cap space at random veterans.

Can you imagine if three years ago the Bobcats had said "The reason we are passing up on Jerry Stackhouse in the expansion draft is because three years down the road we're going to land Matt Carroll for $27 million dollars. Just be patient watching Keith Bogans until we get there."


Laughable.

[Mustachio]

i dont think this signing has anything to do with how competitive we will be for the next few years rally.... MC is a good player and it doesnt cripple us cap wise as much as you think it will.

Next year we lose a bunch of crap contracts like brezec and harrington and the cap goes up next year too. im not worried about the money as much as i am about the development of the 3rd pick in the draft. seems like they are giving up on morrison because who honestly expects Adam to play the SF position well at all, much less behind Gerald. i just see adam as more of a SG in the NBA so far.

[spectre]

Right now we're at 35,269,897 with 11 players and BK's 1.5 million (which we'll end up getting back when he signs with another team)...so take away the 1.5 and that gets us to 33,769,897. Figuring Hammer's salary with 10.5% increases he'll make 3.45 million this year...which brings the total to 37,219,897...figure Crash right now for 10 per that gets us to 47.2 million bucks. The rookies...3 maybe, which puts us right at 50 million and 14 players. That should be around 5 million under the cap.

IF we wanted Darko, make a run for him before we sign Crash, give him say 7.5 and that puts our salary at 57.5...over the cap but around 8 million UNDER the luxury limit. We lose Primoz and Harrington next year, give the difference to Mek in his extension and we're right back at the new cap for '09.

We add in Darko, lock in Mek, have our 3 best wings locked up for 4, 6 & 6 years.

Even if you want to worry about a Felton extension...the number to avoid will always be the luxury limit, which is usually 8 to 10 million over the cap.

IMO Hammer's contract wasn't a bargain for us but it wasn't overpaying either; he's a 6th man assassin and he's a valuable asset (look to Krapono's contract for reference).

The numbers I used for Hammer's salary with 10.5% increases:

3.45
3.81225
4.21253625
4.654852556
5.143612075
5.683691342

26.95694222

I should note that I read somewhere that his contract was "favorable" to us in it's structure, so I might be totally off on that...for all I know it's top heavy or divided equally over 6.

[dnbman]

We would not have had that wiggle room if we signed Carroll to a smaller contract. Even if he only makes $2M a year, that would have only netted us an extra $2 million to go after free agents.

Meanwhile, we need to have a "team," not just some guys that we sign. We can't just sign a bunch of journeyman and dropping them until we make a real playoff run.

To use your Spurs as an example, Carroll is our Brent Barry.

Your theory of building a team is clouding the facts. We needed a guy like Carroll, both for on court scoring and off the court team building. Maybe we overpaid for him, but it's only by a million or two. That's not the difference in going after a big free agent.

Even if you think it's a bad deal, it's not any kind of franchise derailing mistake.

[dav7z]

Carrolls contract when you think about it is low. In six years the average contract will be about 10 mil per year. Aaverage contract now is over 5 milion . Ithink we got a bargin in Carroll . Look at Jasons contract . He got a 4 year 26 milion dollar contract. Carroll was about five spots ahead of of Jason on the free agent list all so.
As for Carroll being the eight man coming off the beanch its no way. Him and Walter will be the first to if Walter dont start at the 4. As for pay Morrison makes just as much in a rookie contract whos coming off a bad year . So you cant say the contract is bad.
I look to see Morrison traded for either a point or a five . I think he has more value trading for a five but it depends if we have enough to snag Darko if we do then we trade Morrison for a point.Then we have a strong starting five and key players coming off the beanch . Morrison fans read the wghting on the wall we have no more need for him . He dont fit in to the run and gun system and we have our key players coming off the beanch . TKINK Thats why we drafted Dudley. Morrisons going to be traded befor he loses all his value. The same better hold true for May if he dont produce being the back up hes gone next year.

[Mustachio]

Morrison isnt going anywhere. Morrison is better than Carroll. Carroll has been in and out of leagues for a while now... hes had that experience and gotten his game crafted.

you guys are giving up on Morrison after one year.. which is absolutely retarded. Carroll took like 5 years to get where hes at, Steve Nash was garbage for 4 years before he came on in Dallas.

Ammo isnt going anywhere.

[dav7z]

Must i agree with you and im a big Morrison fan to but explain to me why we drafted a running small foward and signed Carroll to a six year contract. To me he looks to be in line for a trade . I dont think its final yet alot depends on the summer games .

[rallydurham]

We get rid of a few small contracts but we're also adding two huge contracts this year, Carroll's sickening deal, Morrison/May/Felton's yearly increase, Okafor's extension, etc

We're capped out when it comes to making a run at a top free agent for the next four years, period.

You guys just aren't seeing the big picture. We needed to combine the cap room we had left with the $4.5 from Carroll's deal and make an addition THIS year.

Now we're screwed. We just have to hope we put together a strong enough unit to make the playoffs the next few years even though we probably can't seriously contend in the Eastern Conference.

And since we're such an average team we probably won't be landing any quality draft picks in the near future. Welcome to mediocrity for the next half decade.

This Carroll deal was a disaster and you know it. Carroll is our Brent Barry??? Poor logic. The Spurs could afford to use a MLE on Barry because they already locked up Duncan/Ginobili/Parker. Where's our Tony Parker??? Where's our Tim Duncan??? Okay then... You don't use cap space on Brent Barry's, you use it on Tim Duncan's.

Look at it this way... Who would we be better off with... Darko at center and Derek Anderson at backup SG.... or Matt Carroll at SG and Primoz at center.... this isn't a trick question.

We could have grabbed Darko this year and stuck with DA for one more year... and then gone out and gotten a SG with an MLE like Toronto did with Jason Kapono. Jordan dropped the ball on this one. Typical NBA GM mistake. Everyone wants to save their own ass instead of doing the right thing. Bernie Bickerstaff wouldn't have made this mistake. Jordan is erasing three years of hard work to stay flexible because he's too impatient.

How many more games are we going to win because of Matt Carroll? 1-2? Maybe 3?

That's worth taking yourself out of the Garnett/Marion sweepstakes next summer? Really? Ugh... ::)

[Grandmama]

Guys don't lose perspective, I hate to say it but I don't think we are in the Garnett/Marion running regardless (unless KG wants to come back home to the south).

We are a small market team that is going to have to be unconventional in the way we build to elite level quality. Unless we can get to a certain level the free agent sweepstakes is going to be a pipe dream. I love Charlotte, I have been here more or less for 20 years. However, unless there is a big name player that is a NASCAR enthusiest we aren't going to be bringing alot to the table apart from a vetran seeing us as a viable team that falls into the "one more piece" is necessary category.

In Charlotte's basketball history we have really never attracted the big name free agent (i know part of it has to deal with the ineptitude of former ownership) We have gotten our big pieces more or less through trades or the draft. While I think we may be more desirable than some other places that may be bigger (read the ATL) we are more likely than not ever going to be the big swinging dick in terms of the FA market 1) due to the city 2) due to the parsimonious owner. These are facts we have to face.

In the end I think Carroll may be slightly over paid but he is servicable and could become valuble down the line whether it is in our line up or as trade bait to bring someone else in.

Just my 2 cents.

[cltblkhscoach]

To repeat what some of the guys have said already, those free agents you mention aren't going to come here, and honestly I wouldn't want them to. When you bring someone like that in, what does that do to developing guys? Yeah, we're all down on Sean May, but if Vincent sees Hermann as a 4, who's to say he won't step up and be consistent? These one or two star dominated teams aren't winning championships. Even Jordan needed help, and that's what we are building for.

You say Jordan is impatient, well you are the impatient one Rally wanting a 4th year franchise to compete for the NBA finals by throwing money into 30 year old veterans just wanting their last big payday before they fall off the table. Jordan and Bickerstaff are doing it right and taking care of their own, that's what players value, not change and bringing in new faces at the drop of a hat.

[dnbman]

Agreed.

To sign one of these big FAs we'd need two things:

1. cap space
2. a competitive team

In order to have a competitive team, we have to have good players already. Fielding a team like that takes away from your cap.

You can't gut your roster and only have important pieces and rubbish until you get another important piece. You have to build a team that has solid starters, solid role players, and people dedicated to winning. That's what we're building.

The thing I like about the direction the Bobcats have taken this season is they're not waiting around for the lottery balls to fall our way. We're also not going to be in a situation like Minnesota and Boston where they're forced to trade for a superstar or lose their main superstar.

What we have is a versatile line-up very much like the Pistons built their championship team. They never won the lottery or made a major FA signing. Instead, they build a team character and made guys play that way or traded them. Sheed was their most high profile acquisition, and he came in the middle of the season.

Look around the league and this is what you see the most of:

A. A team with a star and bunch of random pieces around him that can't get it done
B. A rebuilding team
C. A team with multiple stars that's paying dearly for moderate success

The Spurs were lucky in winning the Duncan lottery and having two late draft picks turn into stars. That rarely happens. Of course, they also had one of the greatest players in all time in Duncan to build around.

We're not going to be a two $20 million player team. We're going to have a bunch of guys making pretty good money and all invested in winning. We're showing our players that we reward hard work and are loyalty.

Actually, rather than defend the signing, tell us exactly who we should find to fill our roster now, who we should sign next year, and explain why they'd want to come here. Please make sure their contract works with our cap.

[jaxatax23]

i like the last 3 posts a lot...each of yall told the simple truth...but rally imma have to disagree with ur post an this is why:

1) Ur saying that we screwed ourselves over with the carroll signing- he is a great assett tohave as ur 6th man..an right now he's much better than morrison...an yes he is our berry...an yes we paid him more than berry gets but like dnbman said...the spurs got lucky with their picks

2) Ur getting upset that we arent going to be able to sign marion or garnett- r u serious??? we just got JRich as our SG so that throws out any idea of wanting to get goofy shot an overrated marion...an garnett is a geat player but will be demanding money that we DONT need to be paying for ONE player

3) Ur saying Jordan is impatient- the man wants to win just like the city of charlotte wants them to...i can understand u getting pissed if we traded for a superstar who is on the decline part of his career...but no we signed a great shooter who will be a very important piece of our TEAM...an a great team is one who is made up of several good players who play together an not a team like Clevland who has one superstar without a damn bit of help!

[spectre]

Darko's still getting by on "potential"...but there are legitimate questions about his desire and will to get to the next level. He should have had a breakout year last season...but didn't.

Imagine signing him at 8 for 5 years and he never "get it"? Kwame Pt. II?

Not saying it will, but IMO taking a chance on him and it failing would do much more damage than throwing Hammer 4.5 per...a contract that can always be traded. I can't be so sure with Darko.

[rallydurham]

We just gave $27 million to a guy that will be 33 when the contract ends.

He was easily replaceable. What's he going to average, 7 points and 1-2 reb?

Give me a break.

Have fun with Primoz at Center. Yeah, we're really gonna do some damage in the playoffs when Primoz/Carroll start taking to the Pistons ::)


This was a mistake plain and simple.

Next year's free agent class is HUGE and we would have been about the only team with cap room. Don't underestimate the value of the dollar bill. If we're the only team with cap room and we have 4 legitimate starters, we'd be able to acquire almost anyone in the league.

If you don't think we could get Garnett than we should have gotten Darko. I'd rather have 12 pts, 6 reb, 2 blk from the C position than 7 ppg, 1 reb from the backup SG.

You guys are dead wrong about this being a good signing. You think we've become Eastern Conference Contenders but we haven't. Felton isn't there yet. We have no offensive option on the low block. Using cap space for one dimensional shooters is a terrible way to build a team, period.

[tamburello]

rally, you're always saying the same thing. Will we miss the chance to get Marion, Arenas or whoever just because of Carroll's "fat" contract? What if we had given him 3.5 million per/yr contract instead of 4.5? Wouldn't a 3.5 per/yr contract be perfectly fair for Carroll? Will we miss a "big time star" because of that damn extra 1 millions? Have you been thinking to keep Carroll with 2 millions per/yr? What? I agree that Carroll's contract is a little expensive, and maybe even Carroll would become a Jerome James(which will not happen). Even in this case, I won't accuse that move for missing that big "potential" FA's.

"2008 free agent class" thing is only, only nonsense. Last year that "so-called" NBA specialists were saying the exactly same thing about 2007 free agent class. "The best ever"... But what happened? Biggest names signed extensions, i.e Paul Pierce, Dirk Nowitzki... Vince Carter easily re-signed. Probably so will Billups. What about the remaining?

The majority of that 2008 class will probably sign extensions between July 11 and October 31. I don't want to make plans according to "theories" but "facts". Even if we have vast of cap room, would you want to see Arenas a bobcat? I do not, I'm sure neither do Arenas.

And "Primoz at the center" isn't funny. You look so likely to forget the past. I'm not saying he's best option in the lot, but he may be a very productive offensive weapon if used right way. Because he was for two seasons. He'll enter this season well-rested after a very long time. One thing that I'm sure is we won't miss the playoffs because of Primoz.

[Dunk]

Darko hasn't done anything in the league yet so I don't know why it keeps coming back to that.

If Carroll plays well then he's either A) a good deal; B) good trade bait with a fair contract. If he doesn't, then it was a mistake.

I think the overall strategy is to find young talent and then lock them up for a while if they prove themselves. Carroll is one, Crash will be the second pretty soon. Next year we'll have Okafor and Hermann to go after and with some guys leaving we'll have some cap space to do that.

I don't know if there are a lot of better options out there. We could have went after Noah in the draft and gotten a big but then no J-Rich. Pick your poison.

Besides Darko, who I'm not sold on, what other C comes here Matt Carroll contract or not?

[Grandmama]

@rallydurham

By looking at your name I assume you are bitter due to living in Durham, which I understand, I empathize with you empathy. Just don't take it out on Matty C, what did he ever do to you?

I suggest going to Teaser's Men's Club, its free for members on Wednesday, or better yet just go over to Chapel Hill, that should cheer you up.

[timang]

what will we exactly miss in the next FA class? superstars? will one guy make you a contender in a split sec? by spending too much on them? aren't we making a team here? it would be such a bad move if we try to kill what was already started. such an ugly compromise we'll be having if we let our guys go and say "hey let's get this *insert nba star here* on this team so that we'll get better" is that how you do it? aren't we rooting or this team beacuse of their ethic and the way they build this? i'm going nuts if we'd try to pursue a star next year JUST because they're on the market. i mean c'mon, we all know why they're in the market in the first place.

and who the hell here thinks that primoz aka "the slovenian butterfly" is well loved to be our starting C? we know what we lack, and we're addressing it slowly AND surely. not some wait-it-out then a mad scramble on the next year's FA class will do us good.

and oh btw, matt's done GREAT damage onto the pistons last season, gotta keep those rants on thyself. :wink:
http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2007-01-11/bobcats-smoke-pistons-one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-other-things/
http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2006-12-04/offended-bobcats-upend-pistons-and-a-weekend-recap/

[dnbman]

I know this sounds obvious, but it's something I didn't think about until after reading those articles:

Matt can be a psychological killer off the bench. Imagine JRich is having a good night and your team is having trouble keeping up with him and Wallace. One of them sits and Matt comes into drop 12 points in about 8 minutes. Your team is hating life, especially if our defense is sound.

I was never a big MC fan, but I'm coming around.

[dvdbumpus]

Well hopefully Matt can be that buzzkiller. We need him to be since we will struggle with the frontcourt.

[ALong13]

I've listen to some people talk about how we shouldn't be given Carroll 4.5 million to come off the bench, well that's wrong, we gave Brevin Knight 5 million a year, and he did ok, was a very good passer, but wasn't the shooter Carroll is. Carroll will be nice to have when JRich is getting tired, think about it, as DNBman said, teams are going to hate our bench, and even when Wallace comes off Morrison will be there...

[rallydurham]

You can try to rationalize it all you want, but wasting our cap space on a role player was a bad move.

We really panicked and it cost us a shot at a Center or another PF to pair with Okafor.


I must have misunderstood all the talk. I thought Jordan was trying to build a Championship contender.... not a contender for the #7 seed in the Eastern Conference.

[dnbman]

OK... well, you can rationalize all you want, but mathematically you are not making sense.

[rallydurham]

I'm making plenty of sense.

Darko will likely average more points, rebounds, and blocks than Matt Carroll and Primoz Brezec COMBINED.

Backup shooting guards are a dime a dozen... 22 year old skilled centers are not.

We have a glaring weakness at Center and we have plenty of shooters in Richardson, Hermann, Morrison, and even Wallace (shot well the 2nd half).


The only people who think this was a good signing are the Bobcat fanboys. Matt Carroll is an alright player but he's not a difference maker by any stretch of the imagination. If we don't sign Carroll we have enough room to go after Marion, Darko, etc. With Carroll we are essentially capped out for the next four seasons.

Ceteris Paribus, no one is choosing Charlotte over a big market. That means our midlevel exceptions are not that valuable compared to other teams. We NEED cap space so that we can make up with MONEY what we lack in exposure.



Matt Carroll re-signs with Charlotte (six years, $27 million)
Short-term B-, long-term C-
Carroll is an unusual player -- he's a 3-point sniper who also has a knack for getting to the foul line -- and as such that makes him a very effective offensive role player. However, he's a poor defender and his numbers don't project to be overwhelming -- as with Walton, he's likely to have a PER in the 13-14 range the next couple seasons, but in this case without the defense. The money here isn't extravagant, though, so it's not such a bad deal short-term.

As with Walton, the long-term ramifications of this deal aren't nearly as positive. Carroll should fare a little better than Walton because he's half a year younger and his foremost skill -- shooting -- shouldn't decline much with age. But paying role players into their mid-30s is normally a losing proposition.

See, even without taking cap ramifications into account it's not a great signing. But when you couple the cap ramifications its pretty disastrous.



Carroll's two big Achilles' heels are passing and defense. He has no court vision whatsoever and ranked last among shooting guards in assist ratio. We'll discuss his defense more in a minute.

Like most of his teammates, Carroll had a high rate of steals, and, as with the others, all the gambling made it hard to make a fair evaluation of his work at that end. However, Carroll looked pretty seriously overmatched. Unlike a lot of bad defenders, it wasn't a question of effort or understanding concepts -- I can't even count how many times last season Carroll rotated to the correct spot and was beaten anyway because of his lack of size, strength and leaping ability.

[dnbman]

But you're missing the biggest points:

We were going to sign Carroll regardless. So whether it's 2.5,3, or 4 million a year, you're talking about 1.5 million savings. If he walked, we would have likely signed a veteran guard that isn't as devoted to the team, doesn't give us the 3 point threat, and overall wouldn't mean much in the locker room.

1.5-2 million dollars is not going to make a difference in getting Marion. After we resign Wallace, we'd be out of the running for most of the big free agents next year anyway. We have to resign Okafor, who would still count between 8-9 million against our cap while he's a free agent, placing us right at if not over the cap threshold. The only way we could have gotten Marion is if released Okafor outright. As for guys like KG, again we'd have to do the same thing. What would be the allure for KG to come here? He'll sign with a team that's a KG away from winning a title for less money.

As for Darko, he has big question marks that are still out about him. He could be terrifick, however he could also be a career softy with a Raef LaFrentz upside. We have a few bigs that could pan out on our roster. If they don't, we can sign or draft a big next year.

The Carroll deal probably is a B or a C. I think it's too much money. However, it's not the franchise killer you're making it out to be. They overpaid a little for a guy who's loved a lot by Bobcat fans.

[rallydurham]

No, we shouldn't have signed Carroll period because he counts against our cap.

You don't waste cap space on role players, period.

I guarantee there will be someone just as good as Carroll on the market next year.

That would save us $4.5 million in space... Combine that with the additional space we still have.... and then free up a little more room by moving May and/or Morrison for a draft pick and we'd have plenty of space to sign Marion, Garnett, etc. Or we could just sign Darko now and then re-sign Matt Carroll if we were HELLBENT on resigning Matt Carroll.


Now, we don't have enough room to sign someone next year.

Which means we will be stuck either re-signing Primoz. Or trying to land someone for the midlevel exception (if Bob is even willing to use it).

The types of post players historically that are available for the midlevel exception are Jerome James, Nazr Mohammed, Rasho Nesterovic, etc

You can't get Varejao, Tyson Chandler, Dalembert, Gasol, etc for the midlevel exception.


You guys just don't understand the salary cap well enough to understand how limited our options are now.

Unless we figure out a way to get Darko now, we're going to be stuck without a center for the forseeable future unless we can find someone to snooker in a trade.

Getting a quality center or an elite PF (like Garnett/Marion) would make us Championship Contenders regardless of who our backup shooting guard was.

Having a terrible center and Matt Carroll as a backup SG makes us a borderline playoff team with a ceiling of about 45 wins.

You'd have to be an idiot not to see the difference.

[dnbman]

You still have to fill out a 15 man roster. What is going to say to the rest of the players if you ditch everyone that isn't either a semi-all-star or a guy playing for the league minimum? Again, if you're building a fantasy team, that might not be a bad strategy. However, you're dealing with real humans.

It's not that we don't understand the salary cap. We understand the reality of player signings. Of the guys you listed, Varejao was the only legitimate guy we could have signed. All of those other guys, aside from being under contract, are $10M+ players.

As for not understanding the salary cap, you're showing your lack of understanding also. (Though granted, I was confused about this until recently also.)

Your veteran free agents continue to count against your cap.

Read Below:
************************************************** ***********
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#29

29. Can a team sign all the free agents it wants (up to the cap limit) and THEN re-sign its own free agents using the Bird exception?

Yes, but there's a restriction. A team's free agents continue to count as team salary (against the salary cap). This charge is called the "free agent amount." So there may not be enough money under the cap to sign another team's free agent, because the team's own free agents are taking up all their cap room.


30. How much do free agents count against their team's salary cap?

The free agent amount depends on the player's previous salary and what kind of free agent he is:

See this chart for the amounts: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#30

(It doesn't translate well to the post.)


31. Why do free agents continue to count against a team's cap?

It closes another loophole. Teams otherwise would be able to sign other teams' free agents using their cap room, and then turn their attention to their own free agents using the Bird exceptions. This rule restricts their ability to do that. It doesn't close this loophole completely -- for example, in 2005 Michael Redd's free agent amount was $6 million, even though the Bucks intended to re-sign him for the maximum salary. By waiting to sign Redd last, the Bucks were able to take advantage of the difference by signing Bobby Simmons. Had they signed Redd first, they would have had no cap room to sign Simmons.


32. When do free agents stop counting against the team's cap?

When any one of the following three things happen:

* The player signs a new contract with the same team. When this happens, the player's effect on his team's team salary is based on his new salary.

* The player signs with a different team. As soon as this happens, the player becomes the new team's problem, and his salary no longer counts against his old team.

* The team renounces the player. (See question number 33)

************************************************** ********

By the time we extend Okafor his qualifying offer, we'd already be at the cap. (Assuming we resign Wallace.) We might have been able to sign a 6-7 million dollar guy, but not a 10-15 million dollar guy. Plus, we have to pay Felton, May, and Morrison if those guys pan out. The organization's not going to put itself in luxury tax hell by taking advantage of every loop hole in the cap and then having to resign it's rookies at higher prices.

The Suns tried to do that and now they're shopping your boy Marion.

Remember: you're dealing with real humans, real money, and you have to fill a 15 man roster.

[rallydurham]

That post didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.

You wanna see what our cap situation would have been? I'll show you:

Richardson = $12.2
Wallace = ~$10
Okafor = $7.1
Felton = $4.15
Morrison = $4.16
Hermann = ~$2.7
May = $2.6
Dudley = $1.2
Hollins = ~$1.0
Davidson = $~600K


That's only about $45.7 million. The cap hold on our first round pick would be like another $1.2 million so thats $46.9 on 11 players... That would leave us with about $14-$16 million to offer as a STARTING salary which is essentially a max deal.

Why would Kevin Garnett not accept a max deal to play with the best supporting cast he's ever had???

If we're 1-2 million away all we have to do is move Morrison or May for a draft pick or just outright renounce their rights. That shouldn't be a problem because there was plenty of interest in May this past offseason.

Our only other need is a backup PG... we could easily sign a Steve Blake type for part of our midlevel exception ($6) or even a jacque vaughn type for our small excpetion ($1.8)


There are plenty of veterans like Jalen Rose that we could offer the league minumum too. Ultimately, it doesn't matter who your 13th thru 15th man is... It matters who your starting five and a few role players are....


I keep up with this stuff pretty closely, I guarantee I wouldnt bother mentioning a deal or move if it wasn't fiscally possible.

[Cantgetright]

So you anticipate the salary cap to be 63 million next year?

Wallace will be more than 10 season after next. IMHO


It said that Carroll signed a cap friendly deal aswell so it's probally front loaded this season and goes down after that.

If Carrolls cap hit is only say 3 million next year I can't imagine what anyone could gripe about.

Kapono is less of a player and 6 million per.
Korver got 4.7 million per
Harpring 6 million per
Quentin Richardson 8.3
Marco Jaric about 7 million per

[rallydurham]

Kapono doesn't go against the salary cap he was a midlevel exception. Everyone agrees this was way too much money for a role player but at least Toronto had a glaring need at SF.

Korver was signed by the Philadelphia 76ers. They have been the worse managed team over the past 5-6 seasons. They couldn't put a winning team around Allen Iverson because of cap crippling deals like Kyle Korver, Dalembert, Willie Green, Aaron McKie, Eric Snow, etc You better find a better example.

Harpring was a bad deal as well. No one advocates this as a good signing.

Quentin Richardson was a horrible signing. The Suns realized their mistake immediately and were fortunate Isiah was dumb enough to fall for trading for Q-Rich.

Marco Jaric is probably the worst deal in the league. The Minnesota Timberwolves are one of the worst run organizations in the league because Kevin Mchale has no clue what he's doing.


You just compared us to the 76ers, Knicks, and T-Wolves all in one post and basically said we should emulate their transactions so we can be bottom feeders for eternity. Be careful.

[dnbman]

Excellent work. The same logic would sell a lot of TVs at rent to own stores.

Here's what that strategy turns into in 2 years.

2008-2009:

Richardson = $12.2
Wallace      = ~$10
Okafor      = $7.1
Felton      = $4.15
Morrison    = $4.16
Hermann  = ~$2.7
May        = $2.6
Dudley      = $1.2
Hollins        = ~$1.0
Davidson    = $~600K

Here are potential free agents for the big money:

Baron Davis
Elton Brand
Gilbert Arenas
Jason Kidd
Tim Duncan
Shawn Marion

Let's pick one. Duncan will probably stick with the Spurs; that's a safe bet. Of the guys left, Marion and Brand make the most sense. Brand has a 17M player option that he'll likely take. Which leaves Marion. So, let's assume he turns down his player option and signs with us for $15M. Then we use the loophole to resign Okafor for $14M.

Now our roster looks like this headed into the '08 season:

Marion = $15
Okafor = $14
Richardson = $12.2
Wallace      = ~$10
Okafor      = $7.1
Felton      = $4.15
Morrison    = $4.16
Hermann  = ~$2.7
May        = $2.6
Dudley      = $1.2
Hollins        = ~$1.0
Davidson    = $~600K

That's what... $63 or so. We'll sign three other guys to the league minimum.

That brings us to $65.

Now let's go to the next summer.

If Felton is our pg, we have to repay him. We better hope he's good, or we'd be settling for the MLE for our starting pg and that's with two minimum salary guys for backups. So, we'll just assume he's good. Mo Williams is about to get $8. Felton should easily be able to get that. Obviously, he's too expensive, we let him walk, bringing us back to the MLE pg and a minimum salary backup. We'll say a safe bet is $9, which is less than Hinrich, a pretty safe equivalent.

With May we have a couple of options. If we let him walk, we start some combination of Okafor and Wallace or Marion at PF. In fact, let's just assume he walks. Hermman will be a marginally good player and we'll keep him for $3. (Obviously he can't be too good, or we'd lose him.)

Marion = $16
Okafor = $15
Richardson = $13.3
Wallace      = $10
Felton      = $9
Morrison    = $5.3
Hermann  = $3
Dudley      = $1.3
Hollins        = $1.0
Davidson    = $1

That's $69M without filling out the roster. (Now we understand why Phoenix was selling it's 1st round picks!) Sick line up!

And, with the addition of five other guys to fill out the roster, only costs an extra $10 million in tax, which our small market team could probably afford. We'll get some of that back when we let Morrison walk, regardless of how talented or untalented he may be.

Now we've got a team that's arguably less talented than the Nuggets (no ring) with a hefty pay roll and little chance to change it, unless we trade players.



By the way, let's forget Marion and go after someone a little more practical. Here are few bigs that would help us:

Al Jefferson
Biedrins
Luol Deng
Nenad Krstic
Robert Swift

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_13008.shtml

Jefferson will almost automatically command $15. If we had any chance of prying him from the Celtics, he might be worth it. However, the Celtics seem pretty dedicated to him. Those other guys are interesting, but if they pan out, they're going to be expensive too.

So, we could gut our team, filling it with rookies and league minimum players for possibly a chance to win.

OR, we could commit ourselves to guys who believe in our team, sign sensible contracts around our core of Wallace, Richardson, and Okafor, and still compete for the next six years, possibly with only a few dollars in luxury tax.

This is the reality of the situation with the players available next year and our salary cap room.

The only other option is trading, where Carroll's salary wouldn't make that much of a difference.

We were not going to sign another big star unless Okafor walks. And frankly, I'd rather keep Okafor than sign just about anyone available next year.

[rallydurham]

Like I said you dump Morrison and May... and you're under the luxury tax. Perfect.
League minimum players dont count against the salary cap, only the luxury tax and the NBA pays part of the players contract if they are a veteran.

I don't really believe Felton can command quite that much money because I doubt other teams will be under the cap far enough to offer him anywhere near $10 million per... I think a 6 year, $50 million deal would get it done and that would make him start at around $6.5-7 the first season.

Obviously, the Richardson deal is really going to cost us against the cap which is why I was more in favor of a deal for Monta Ellis or D.Harris/Diop to begin with.

However, spending about $17.5 million a season for a Richardson/Carroll combination is absolutely outrageous. You never want to tie your money up in a SG unless he's a stud. Paying big bucks to Larry Hughes, Redd, R. Allen, etc is a recipe for a disaster. You only pay the big bucks if its Kobe, Wade, etc


Jefferson isn't an option. If the Celts wouldnt trade him for Garnett they wont let him walk as a FA for sure.

Biedrins isn't an option as of now, the Warriors have made him off limits.

Duncan obviously isn't likely to become a free agent...

Brand could very well be available since the Clippers are looking to shed payroll.

He'd be a perfect combination with Okafor.



Since you don't like going after Brand/Marion/Garnett/etc you should be in love with the idea of landing Darko instead.

It's not everyday you find a young quality center available for fair market value. He'd be making less than Chandler, Dalembert, Dampier, Ben Wallace, etc

[dnbman]

Darko isn't a quality center yet.

I don't dislike his talent. However, word is he's soft on D despite showing impressive blocks. Yeah, he may give us some post scoring, but he hasn't done that especially well either. We will be over the luxury tax by next season.

Brand is the Clippers. If they wanted to get rid of salaries, they'd get rid of Kaman or one of their wing players before they'd get rid of Brand.

As for May and Morrison, remember we already let Carroll go. The only modertate backups we'd have would be Dudley and Hermann. We'd have zero depth if let them go. And, we'd still have to sign players at the league minimum to fill their roles.

As far as Felton goes, if he signed at that starting rate, that would only make us in worse shape with the luxury tax the following seasons when everyone else is making more money.


You're talking about putting together a deluxe group of starters with no depth and little sense of team, since you cut every player that isn't playing at the league minimum. In a vaccum, it may not be a bad idea. But in real life, you have to deal with the lockerroom environment, injuries (we'd be destroyed if one of those guys sat out a few months), and depth. And you have to pay for that with a franchise that is fiscally viable. Unless we win a championship, is Marion or Darko really going to put that many more people in the seats?

At any rate, I only had two points:

1. The Matt deal wasn't good, but it wasn't franchise killing.
2. You can't win with five random semi-stars and no depth.

Our team identity will be more valuable than gutting our roster to have one more star.

[rallydurham]

You make some valid points but the "can't win with 5 deluxe starters and no depth" is silly.

There's really only two ways to build a great team under the luxury tax.

1) Get two superstars and put solid role players around them (Shaq/Kobe, MJ/Pippen, etc).

2) Assemble a starting five with no weak links and try to find cheap/valuable reserves.


By locking ourselves into Okafor/Wallace/Richardson we've already established that we are trying to put together a great starting five. If Felton develops and we land a quality center then we've got that.

Hermann and Dudley are absolutely quality bench players so right there we have a nice 7 man rotation. If either Davidson or Hollins steps up we've got an eight man rotation and the only thing we're missing is a backup PG. This doesn't have to be a great player. This can certainly be a Jacque Vaughn, Lindsey Hunter, etc type player.

We don't need to assemble a roster that goes 15 deep. The Suns aren't deep. The Pistons aren't deep. The Lakers weren't deep.

You can't have a great lineup and bench without going over the luxury tax. A lot of depth comes at the expense of a good lineup and leaves you with absolutely no flexibility.

This isn't baseball or football. All that matters in basketball is the five guys on the court. As long as you can keep five good basketball players on the court at all time, you can compete for a championship without an elite player.

[dnbman]

Oddly, I agree with most of that.

Quickly, about the depth thing... The Suns are deeper than you realize. They have a backup pg that's better than most starters in the league. They have Diaw coming off the bench and a bevy of long range gunners. Detroit's championship team had much better depth than you realize: Okur, Mike James, Chucky Atkins, Bob Sura, Lindsey Hunter. They also had some solid blue collar types in Corliss Williamson and Elden Campbell. That team was deep, but the focus was always on the starting five. The Lakers had a nice group of role players, including several off the bench. Horry, Samaki Walker, and Lindsey Hunter all played about 20 minutes a night. They also got 10+ minutes a night from guys like Mitch Richmond and Brian Shaw, veterans who could come in and play solid minutes for 10 or so a night. For a real playoff run, you have to have some depth. Too much can go wrong along the way to rely on 5 guys each night.


As for C, there's no great solution for center now or next year. Darko is the best bet, and he's got serious question marks. If we signed him for the equivalent of the MLE, that's probably o.k. However, his price seems to be higher through sign and trades. Who knows how it will end up?

We can still get a solid big man through the draft. We don't have to go after a star in free agency to address the position. In the meantime, we might already have a starter on our roster in May, Hermann, or Davidson. The Pistons got Ben Wallace as a bargain piece in a trade. When it came time to pay the guy big money, they let him walk.

With the right system and team philosophy in place, we can get more out of guys that are mediocre on other teams. That's one of the main reasons why we don't need to go after a superstar. If we build a team philosophy where everyone contributes and everyone gets the glory, we'll be alright. One way you do that is build a team of guys with high character who compete every night.

That's why I don't think Carroll was such a bad deal, even though it certainly wasn't good. We don't have to go after the obvious guys that are the easy fix. We can develop talent and push the veterans we acquire. But as we do that, we have to create the right atmosphere. Otherwise, you end up like Miami last year or the Lakers two years ago: a bunch of expensive pieces, but no cohesion.

[dvdbumpus]

No way we should go after Marion. Ever seen a player be successful who can't make his own shot and doesn't have a Steve Nash there to pass to him? Not I. Also, he shouldn't play PF, and with SF and SG locked up, he's outta luck. I'd pay Elton Brand if I was going to pay anybody. If not him I'd be happy with Krstic or Swift depending on how they turn out.

[rallydurham]

Surely no one is dumb enough on here to proclaim they know more about the NBA than Bill Simmons.

Here's a Q&A from his chat wrap today


Damian (Hong Kong): Hey Bill, what did you think of the Raptors signing Kapono for the MLE? Think he'll fit into their system?

SportsNation Bill Simmons: That was awful. The fact that Kapono, Matt Carroll and Luke Walton signed for a combined $81 million tells you everything you need to know about trhe NBA this summer. I like all three of those guys, but they're role players... you can't overpay role players, it's the biggest mistake you can make other than spending $126 million on a one-dimensonal scorer.

It's okay to be a Bobcats fan and supporter and still get upset when they make a poor decision. Being a fan doesn't make me lose objectivity.

[dnbman]

It wasn't a great signing. It's still not a franchise killer.

We will all be safe.

[jaxatax23]

out of everybody mentioned, id say brand is the only one id really want...iono how that would work with the cap tho

[Mustachio]

Rally.. i agree we dont have to agree with everything that happens. I too think we overpaid with Carroll but, i wanted him on the team, and hes on the team...

however, (i love bill simmons) just cause the sports guy says it was a bad signing doesnt mean anything. i mean just like any outsider, he doesnt know how much money we got or whats in our best interest... hes just making face value judgments.

but i still think we overpaid

[dnbman]

All of Simmons' face value judgments have been a punchline to a "Michael Jordan is a bad manager" joke.

He's funny occasionally and knows a lot more about basketball than I'll ever know. But, he seems to have no idea what's going on with the Bobcats.