What is our next move in free agency?

[ziggy]

I'm thrilled with what we've done so far. In my opinion, over the past month this team has been transformed into a legitimate playoff team. But with Gerald signing for 6 years and (only) $57 million dollars, I think we still have some wiggle room to do some more things in free agency (You cap-ologists can correct me if I'm wrong).

So what should we do?

* Throw the rest of our $$$ at Darko?
* Try to sign a Mikki Moore or Anderson Varejo?
* Spend some of the cash on a backup PG, If so who?
* Sit on the cap space until next season's trade deadline or next offseason?
* or something entirely different.

Thoughts.

[Beekizzle]

* Spend some of the cash on a backup PG, If so who?

Thoughts.




I just put this in another thread but we can get Francis for Cheap. He got bought out for 30 mil by Portland today. His demand is low and he can drop 20 at any time. He scores, makes assists, and hits the boards better than any PG NOT named J Kidd.

I hope the Bobcats front office makes a run at him.

[ALong13]

As I said in the other post, I'm 50/50 on Francis, he's going to want to start, and I don't know if they would do that with Felton there....I wouldn't mind talk to Mikki Moore or Anderson Varejo as a possible center or power forward, they are not great, but they could work. I think I'd prefer Mikki Moore more though...

[Beekizzle]

true, but to have a guy like that on reserve woule be sweet. He could be a great back up plan if JR goes down with the knee.

I also think that Steve might be a little humble right now and may look for a fresh start. He gets a bad rap for the whole not going to the Grizz deal back in 99, but he is not a Cancer at all, he just needs people to ball with. He can't be "the man"

[Beekizzle]

Moore is only good because of J Kidd. I would not go there at all.


Word to Kenyon Martin.... :-\

[ziggy]

Hmmm... Stevie Franchise, I hadn't given any thought to him, but if hes humble and willing to accept a 15-20 minute per game reserve role, then I can deal with that.

Our bench would be nasty with Steve, Matt and Ammo.

[Beekizzle]

I really can't see him demanding to start anywhere in the league. The only teams that he could bump the PG that I can think of are Clippers, Lakers, Boston (maybe)...he really does not have a choice.

[dvdbumpus]

Other teams (Dallas, Clippers, heat) have contacted him. If Miami doesn't sign Mo Williams, look for him there. Other than that, look for him to end up with Dallas.

[dav7z]

I would spend the rest of our soft cap on a good big to back up ok50.
Whitch ever one fits the system best. To a three or four year contract. after signing a one year to a veteran point [ mim]. Then we can get OK50 out of the way this year too befor season starts. We will still be under the lux tax.
Reason for a big is a back up point will not be as hard to draft next year as a good big. Assuming we not in the loto.

[Beekizzle]

If Steve has options like Dallas, then I can dead that idea now.

Only quality guys I see left on the board would be Steve Blake (I love my Terps)
and Earl Boykins.

[jaxatax23]

1) Steve Francis
i heard the clippers will prolly get stevie franchise b/c the livingston injury an cassell is old as hell...plus hes good friends with cutino mobley...but that doesnt mean i wouldnt make a run at him...i think he'd be a great person to have on our team...he might have a strong chance at 6th man of the year...the only problem is, i just cant see him wanting to be a back-up

2) Jamal Magloire
i think would be a great fit here and not cost that much...that would definitly strengthin our front court!

3) Darko
i no a lot of u guys have been saying we need to go after him...im still not sold on him...he STILL has the "potential" thing about him...people say he hasnt been in the right system...maybe thats true i dunno...i just dont no if id be so quick to go after him

4) Mikki Moore
HELL NO!! he is extremely overated....the only thing he does well is hustle, which i do like, but iv seen on SI rumors tha he is demanding wayy more money than he deserves

5) Steve Blake
I wouldnt mind him here...if we could get him at the right place, id say do it

My order of free agents to pursue would be:

Francis
Magloire
Blake
Darko

[Mustachio]

i say sit on the cap. We are a playoff team right now in the East(we hope, anything can happen). I say, see what we got right now... then take the cap and spend big on that final peice. we have a lot of contracts coming off next year... and we can make a serious run at some good players. if KG isnt traded... we could sign him...

Felton, Richardson, Crash, KG, Okafor..... go ahead and book your seats now folks... thats a serious NBA finals threat.

either that or just sign Darko now and pray to Jesus he lives up to his potential. this would enable us to build for the future, stay young and not have many bad contracts at all

[dnbman]

i say sit on the cap. We are a playoff team right now in the East(we hope, anything can happen). I say, see what we got right now... then take the cap and spend big on that final peice. we have a lot of contracts coming off next year... and we can make a serious run at some good players. if KG isnt traded... we could sign him...

Felton, Richardson, Crash, KG, Okafor..... go ahead and book your seats now folks... thats a serious NBA finals threat.

either that or just sign Darko now and pray to Jesus he lives up to his potential. this would enable us to build for the future, stay young and not have many bad contracts at all


I don't think we have much of a shot at signing KG.

I agree completely about saving money though.

These are the free agents for 08:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_13008.shtml

I'm not sure any of those guys interest me. Obviously Brand would be nice, but he's more than likely resigning with the Clippers.

[jaxatax23]

Felton, Richardson, Crash, KG, Okafor..... go ahead and book your seats now folks... thats a serious NBA finals threat.


haha that would be awesome....but yea i kinda like ur idea of sittin on the cap an seeing what we have first...b/c if we do make a run at the playoffs, other players around the league are going to start becoming interested in playing for the bobcat

[jaxatax23]

"It is believed Francis will sign a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Clippers, probably for around $1 million this year and around $5 million next season. That means the Blazers will save about $3 million." -Oregonian

http://www.hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

Couldnt we do better than that??

[dnbman]

I really don't think we want to.

Francis could be dangerous.

Or, he could be hurt and rarely play again.

Or, he could try to dominate the ball too much and ruin our team identity.

I think we need to stay away from giant question mark players like Stephen Jackson, Artest, Franchise, etc.

I don't have anything personally against them. But for various reasons, they can be big distractions to their clubs. We don't need that.

[Beekizzle]

I knew he was going for cheap. The Clippers have a big upper hand because Cat Mobley and Steve are "close"


When Cat got traded from the Magic to Sac Town, Steve was quoted as saying he does not have a reason to get out of bed in the morning. lol

[Mustachio]

i agree.... with the team feeling weve built up and held onto with Jrich... bringing in one of those guys sets us back more than helps.

[ALong13]

I figured we could, but I don't think MJ or Bernie was real interested in him, I wouldn't mind going after Steve Blake, maybe even re-sign Brevin Knight to a smaller contract though that's unlikely and then sign the Bobby Brown or whatever guy from the Summer league...

[WarioVsMooChicken]

I wish we would try to sign Earl Boykins.

[ALong13]

I wouldn't mind Boykins at all, maybe a 3 year 13 million, with incentives that could make it 15? Also with Darko signing with the Grizs, we could go after Varejao...

[dvdbumpus]

I'll pass on Boykins. Maybe a Seattle PG like Earl Watson.

Blake would be nice, but probably too expensive.

I would actually be ok with resigning Brevin as a backup.

However, I'd prefer trying out the summer league guys some more.



By the way, couldn't Derek Anderson play the point 15 minutes a night?

[TheBeagle]

Okay....

I agree with Must' that we should do our best not to over-spend this year. Bob has really given us a good team and spent some money to do so, so let's be nice to him and let him be happy with saving a few more dollars this year :biggrin:

I agree with those of you who want to stay away from Francis like the plague. Absolutely no use for this guy. If we're going to go with someone who isn't a true PG, then me MUST go with...

Bumpus's proposition that DA handle the chores. I really like that, Bump! DA has enough savvy to be able to at the very least facilitate the offense. Obviously, Blake would be ideal, but as has been said, he'll command more money. Likewise Boykins. Unless BK is welcomed back, I'd say DA is our best bet.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

Would this work if Jeff isn't resigned?

R. Felton > D. Anderson > A. Anderson

[ALong13]

A. Anderson has potential, but he would have to be willing to pass the ball a bit more as he only averaged 1.2 assist per game...

[dav7z]

If this artical is the direction we going . Then in ordor to get a player we must do it now. It says Ok50 is the next thing on the to do list as well as to resign Jake i personaly dont think HE is worth a multi year contract. So i hope M.J. and Bernie decides on another big befor signing OK50.http://www.charlotte.com/bobcats/story/194005.html

Darko has all ready signed a 3 year contract so hes gone. Thats why i like Jamal Magloire for the team . He has the size to bang if we have to . Has the speed to get up and down the court. Plays good defence and rebounds. Hes nothing special on the offence end but decent. Hes 27 and in his prime . A one time all star looking for the right fit . I think Charlotte is it . He has the ability to start or come off the beanch depending on the match ups . He has more experance than most of the bigs left and with him we could go all the way to the eastern con. finals. I think he would fall into our price range all so. THOUGHTS

[Mustachio]

i think you gave him a little too much credit for his ability dav... BUT i too think he would make this team strong.

its all up to bernie, mj, and sams choice of offense. if its all about defense and banging.. then magloire is perfect. if we wanna go small and run like crazy, we may have the necessary tools in place without spending more money.

[ziggy]

When Cat got traded from the Magic to Sac Town, Steve was quoted as saying he does not have a reason to get out of bed in the morning. lol
Thats disturbing.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

I actually wish we would resign Jake. He may have not been a star but he was reliable.

[twebb]

I think we should either get Okafor resigned or just stay as we are at the moment. I know a backup pg is in need here but if we sit on the cap then we could still be contenders in the playoffs

[dav7z]

once you resign Ok5o We will be over the soft cap.So we need to sign some one first to get us to a soft cap max . Then we can redo OK50 with out going over the hard cap in to the lux tax zone.http://www.charlotte.com/bobcats/story/194005.html


http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm
Curant players salaries

[Mustachio]

i agree with dav... if we can sign say a backup pg and get us to the soft max, then we can resign Mek. once we resign Mek we will go over the cap.

But were losing several big contracts next year like, harrington and primoz. so it wont be so bad.

[dav7z]

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/charlotte.htm
We siting at just over 35 milion with 10 players signed.
Carroll will add to that about 4.5 mil
Wallace will add about 9 milion to that
Thats 12 players signed. The soft cap is a little over 55 milion. The hard i think is 67 milion.
So we are some where around 48 or 49 milion with 3 players to sign.
Davidson prob. 672 thousand is 1
A rookie point is two. 672 thousand
That leaves us about 6 or 7 milion below the soft cap be for we sign OK50.

[Mustachio]

if we got 6 to 7 million left right now, why not just resign ofafor. and save the rest.

Okafor makes 4-5 million this year, and like 6 next year i think. that salary would obviously come off the books in an extension so we would have that 6 to add to his id say around 10 mil salary. all it would really take would be to add 4 million to his salary now...

so if im right, we could potentially sign Mek right now and still be under the cap?

[tamburello]

I think we should finish shopping right now. We should only concentrate on Okafor extension, and a(possibly two) backup PG's. Since now we have long term and big contracts, we'd better be more careful in the market from now on. We shouldn't be robbed.

[123together]

i think we should resign voskuhl and pick up a backup PG, not really sure which PGs are available. voskuhl put in some big minutes when okafor and may and primoz were injured/ineffective last year. we can't bank on those three being healthy for the whole season. we need someone like voskuhl on the squad. varejao is not going to be a good signing. we would have to pay him way more than what he is worth, and frankly he is too much like joakim noah: big man with big energy with no offensive game. he could command 7 mil a year, a bench player is not worth that, unless its matt carroll :)

[dav7z]

123 I agree if Jake would still take a one year contract . But we shouldn't be pushed into a long term deal with him whitch he wants. We have to get a vet back up point even if we keep Bobby Brown.

[Mustachio]

about varejao. Im not sure he wouldnt fit in pretty good here. We already have our down low offense from Emeka. and scoring can come in bunches from the bench and Jrich.

im just sayin we probally dont wanna crap in our hat and have 6 guys on the court all demanding shots.
so bringing in a hustle guy that plays ok defense would be like the Detroit situation of old, with Ben and Rasheed.

i dont want him (because he is a flopper) but we could do worse.

[Alex]

I say that with our current roster we should definitely be a playoff team in the East this coming season. So I would say that it would be wiser to wait until the next off-season and go for one of the big free agent names in 08.

[TheBeagle]

I actually wish we would resign Jake. He may have not been a star but he was reliable.
I'm with you, there. I realize some people here are down on him, but he's the perfect bench player, in my opinion. He's ready to go in the game at the drop of a hat, doesn't whine if he gets a DNP-CD, and gets as excited as the fans do when the guys make an outstanding play. I wasn't a fan of UConn Jake, but I really like Bobcat Jake!

[tamburello]

I just forgot to add Jake. I also want to see him as a Bobcat next year. But I'm not sure what he wants. He opted out a 2 million contract. Does he want 3-4 millions per year?

[WarioVsMooChicken]

I just forgot to add Jake. I also want to see him as a Bobcat next year. But I'm not sure what he wants. He opted out a 2 million contract. Does he want 3-4 millions per year?

He wants a long term contract

[tamburello]

I just forgot to add Jake. I also want to see him as a Bobcat next year. But I'm not sure what he wants. He opted out a 2 million contract. Does he want 3-4 millions per year?

He wants a long term contract

Since he's almost 30, how can we offer him a long term contract? At most 3 years, but this time he should settle for the exactly same money imho.

[Mustachio]

plus if we let Jake go, who the hell is gonna be crazy enough to in a foul the hell out of Shaq, Howard, and anyone else who is stupid enough to fight for position with Jake.

like him or not, he knows his role on this team. he wouldnt bat an eye if Vincent said... "ok Jake, you see Shaq there?" Jake - " uh huh" Vincent- " ok good, i want you to go pull his shorts down and smack him in the mouth" Jake "ok boss"

[rallydurham]

Once again it would be a terrible mistake to use cap room on a role player like Jake Voskuhl.

Geez, some of you need to re-visit Geometry class. A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square.


Similarly, you can use cap space to sign a role player... but you can not use mid level exceptions to sign an all-star caliber player.

You sign all stars with cap room and role players with MLE's... It's a basic NBA GM salary cap concept that some GM's have ignored (Billy King, Danny Ainge, etc) and its killed them.

[tamburello]

Similarly, you can use cap space to sign a role player... but you can not use mid level exceptions to sign an all-star caliber player.

So what should we do then? Every single free agent signing that we'll do is going to be by using cap space. Will we wait until next year for role player signing, will we wait to go over cap to keep Voskuhl? Do we have to sign not a worse player than Elton Brand?

You are still bitter about Matt Carroll signing as I can see, you think that his contract will keep us away the "big" names of 2008 FA class. But even if we had let Carroll go, we'd anyway have Okafor's big extension for the next year, and even if we hadn't signed Carroll, we'd be under cap in 2008 roughly around 10 millions(I don't include Herrmann's re-signing or whatever). Do you think that we can sign Brand or Arenas for 10 millions? All I say is that there is no difference between being 6 millions or 10 millions under the cap when you target those important players. Don't you still see that, we've used our turn to shot by acquiring Jason Richardson. We did our big time signing. That's it.

2008 Free agent class, or xxxx free agent class things bother me very much. Something concrete please.

[rallydurham]

The key is to be patient with your cap space and wait for the right opportunity to present itself.

If we are the only team in the league with $10 million in cap space then we will be the leaders to get the free agents we want. Also, perhaps we could work out a sign & trade that would net us a player of Brand's ability.

Why would you want to cripple our cap flexibility over Jake Voskuhl??? After we add the main pieces to our team then we will have all the room in the world to get all the Jake Voskuhl's your little heart desires.

Ask Miami what the difference between $6 and $10 million is. They'd love to get Mo Williams right now but they can't do it because they're stuck with cap restrictive contracts like Antoine Walker, Udonis Haslem, Jason Williams, etc


You guys seemed to have learned nothing from all the dumb decisions made around the NBA the past few years. Teams would kill to be in the position we are in and to undo all the Troy Murphy's, Eric Snow's, and Marko Jaric mistakes.

The key to the NBA is to not make stupid decisions that prevent you from being able to capitalize on opportunites when they arise.

[dnbman]

All the players you just mentioned were signed because the team had high expectations; they didn't just overpay for role players. Troy Murphy was meant to be a core big for the Warriors. Jaric was meant to be the starting combo guard for the Wolves, and Walker was a near all-star calibre forward that took a paycut to play with Wade and O'Neal.

I see your point, but you're stalking talking about things strictly theoretically. You have to field a team with guys who compliment each other. Unless you're playing NBA Live, you don't just sign several all-stars for big contracts and then fill your bench with scrubs. I know you only play five guys at once, but those five guys rarely average more than 35 minutes a game. Plus, guys get hurt.

You keep talking about what we don't understand. But what you don't understand is just acquiring a bunch of big stars doesn't win a title. Plus, there are no great stars that can be gotten for $10 M dollars next year. Guys like Brand and Arenas would be signing for half their pay check.

There is no hard and fast rule on spending money other than sign players for the best value you can sign them for. I'm not saying we throw 3-4 M at Jake, but you have to sign guys that can compete. It's killing me to keep reading "what you guys don't understand" when you keep not understanding that these are humans with feelings. Plus, the MLE only allows you to sign a player; it doesn't exempt you from paying the luxury tax for that player. You can't just keep signing MLEs after you've signed all-stars and gone over the cap, unless you want to pay tons of luxury tax, ala the Knicks.

Remember, this is a theory. At some point, you need to sign quality ball players to fill out the clubs. You can't keep passing on good guys for the team because you're holding out for all-stars.

[tamburello]

Who said Jaric's, Murphy's, Snow's contracts are good? Let me add some worse ones, consider Jeffries and Radmanovic. These are horrible contracts, which turned out overpaid immediately after first match. We're only talking about Jake Voskuhl, who is a useful player on court. Not a potential starter.

I think what human nature brings us. People tend to work harder when big pay day is approaching. If you remember 2005-06 season, Radmanovic was playing so promising after being acquired by LA Clippers. Jared Jeffries had defended LeBron James greatly during WAS-CLE series. He was called as the "6'11'' SG" or something like that. As I can remember, Cleveland was so desperate to find PG, that's why they gave a long term contract to Snow. When I consider these situations, I cannot blame so much those team executives. But it's true, they might have ruined their franchise for a few years.

There are very few people who carries his game after huge contract. I hope Gerald and Matt will be among them. I don't have so much doubt about it.

These bad contracts may be become useful trade pieces when it approaches to expiry date. So Jason Williams' contracts is very valuable nowadays. But in Mo Williams case, since they are well over the cap they cannot compare 6 millions with 10 millions. Walker's contract is terrible but those bad contracts brought the championship to Miami in 2006. If Pat Riley hadn't pull the trigger for that huge trade, they would have never been champions. Do you think they'd be champions without Posey Walker Williams but Eddie Jones?

Anyway we'll go over lux tax limit and probably stay for at least 2-3 years. This has no relation with Carroll Voskuhl. All I can try to say is, if you would like to blame someone for "missing" Brand, go see Jason Richardson.

Also keep in your mind that we don't and we won't have the minimum requirements to see your basic points. I'm sorry.

[rallydurham]

You guys are apparentally new to this NBA thing.

Look, if you think you're going to build a contender by throwing away your cap space on guys who can't even make All-Star teams you are dead wrong.

This is the NBA, you simply can't put an inferior team out there and hope to get lucky like in Baseball. You can't catch lightening in a bottle like the NCAA tournament and go deep in the tournament without players.

Gerald Wallace and Emeka Okafor have championship potential. Jason Richardson has shown flashes but he's made the playoffs a grand total of once. We're stuck with an awfully big contract for a guy who hasn't proven he can make the leap yet.

We've committed ourselves to going to war with those three guys and I'm okay with that provided we land a legitimate big man who gives us a chance. We haven't addressed that need in FOUR offseasons. It's getting a little sickening to watch us squander draft picks year after year and then make a panic signing for Matt Fucking Carroll.

I've been nervous ever since the day Jordan became General Manager. Bernie was doing a terrific job, but sure enough Jordan grew impatient and made moves that essentially cancelled out all the patience we'd displayed the past three years.

Bernie had been around the league long enough to know how to architect a team. Jordan still has very little idea of what it takes.


If you don't want to listen to me, listen to Chard Ford or Bill Simmons.... I'm not a smoke blower and I'm not going to pretend like Jason Richardson was an awesome acquistion (it was alright, but a blind squirrel could have made that deal given our cap space and their desire to dump Richardson. They've been trying to trade him for two years and apparentally Jordan is the only person that even wanted him).

Chad Ford (terrific article, you guys would do well to read up)
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=2934997

Bill Simmons talking about Jason RIchardson following the '06 season (the one where he was actually good, not last season)


Jason Richardson: When somebody averages 24 points a game in the same backcourt with Baron Davis shooting 38 percent and pulling his "Teen Wolf" routine, that's saying something. But would you want to be paying him $62 million over the next five years? Me neither.

Bill Simmons explaining Jason Richardson's shortcomings in the playoffs.

notes from the Jazz-Warriors series: (3) hope everyone noticed that Jason Richardson has emerged as the make-or-break player of this series.

As weird as this sounds, Richardson has been exposed AND it's been his coming-out party as a player. He's clearly a competitive, skilled, tenacious 2-guard who would be an asset on any playoff team, someone who's as good as Michael Finley in his prime. At the same time, they're paying him franchise money and there isn't a single guy on Utah's roster who can guard him ... but he's not quite talented enough to swing the series in Golden State's favor. He's having good games and putting up good stats, but they needed more from him than that. That makes him a tweener of sorts -- better than a complimentary player, not quite an All-Star talent. When your fate rests in the hands of someone like that, you're not beating a good team in May.

And this is why we'll ultimately regret trading for him. In the short-term he makes us a playoff contender so it's exciting but in the long term he limits the potential of the franchise. And since Okafor probably doesn't have a lengthy career with his bad back I think we can say with confidence that this team won't ever be championship contenders under this regime.

[tamburello]

I opt to not write a reply to you (and as a result to Mr. Ford and Mr Simmons as well) since I'm "new" to that weird NBA thing. Sorry big guru. I dared to cope with your huge knowledge and experience about NBA. I'd better go and continue to work to invent cycle.

[rallydurham]

When you can't attack the argument, attack the source.

This board is nice because its an outlet for Bobcats fans (all 60 of us in the world lol)

The problem is the board is seriously lacking objectivity. We need a little realism to offset some of the cheerleading.

It's exciting to see the Bobcats spending money but this has the potential to be our worst offseason yet if Richardson/Carroll don't make us dramatically better. There's nothing wrong with optimism, but let's recognize these deals for what they are.

They can make us playoff contenders or derail us from building a championship team. There's nothing wrong with looking at these transactions from the proper perspective.

[tamburello]

I "can" attack the argument, and actually I did, I' ve nothing to do with that "guru" source. Whatever I say, you reply with the same manner. So why do I want to tire myself? You say this will be the worst offseason. OK, you may be right, but we'll see this later, not now. Assume that I'm "cheerleading", assume that I'm not seeing "the truth behing the facts".

I'm a stupid fan who knows only dunking about basketball. You're the most objective one. But I never want to attack people himself. What happens if I attack you? Do I gain something? Why should I attack you?

[rallydurham]

I said this has the potential to be the worst offseason, not that it will be.

It doesnt take a genius to recognize that if Carroll continues to perform at his current level that its a bad signing. If he develops into a gunner who can score 15-16 ppg then fine, but if he's relegated to 3rd string status 2-3 years from now its a potentially disastrous deal because he'll be unmovable and limit our flexibility.

Jason Richardson has a fairly unmovable contract as evidenced by the fact no one in the league would take him coming off a 24 ppg season. If he makes the leap and becomes a better player then maybe it's a great deal. If he stays at past levels of production it'll be tough to justify.

I don't hate the Jason Richardson or the Matt Carroll deal as much as I hate the combination of the deal. For $16.5 million we would have been infinitely better off signing an elite SG rather than a non all-star and a role player, period.

THe dropoff between a Matt Carroll and a Jalen Rose is simply not as substantial as the dropoff between an elite SG and Jason Richardson.

You get yourself in trouble when you try to acquire too many players with deals that aren't considered tradeable assets.

[dav7z]

PLEASE I MEAN PLEASE tell me who would have been a better free agent to take for your 16.5 milion we spent. V/C its no way, hes geting old and once he loses his hops hes done for, you spend for players abilitys not names. J - RICH has a hell of a lot more upside. We sure as hell not going to get a Wade or a James for that. As for Carroll being such a bad deal we cant get rid of, just look at some of thease NBA CONTRACTS . Damn you should be happy with Carrolls contract. Hell we stolded him by NBA standerds. The average pay for a player is over 5 milion NOW. Hell it will be over seven milion by the time his contract ends. Hell if we want to complain about BAD contracts just refer back to the ALLSTAR Lewis six years 110 milion and cant play defence. And you cry about Carrolls and J- RICHES contract. Damn i guess you would have liked us to take on a contract like FRANIS 30 milion buyout. Face it it was two GREAT signings. Just take it for what it is smart decisions on the part of the Bobcats M.J. and Bernie. When something sucks i say it but when it dont i say that two. And BOTH deals were good ones.

Are you trying to tell me you really think Carrolls contract is untradeable.Man what you smoking i need some of it.

[dvdbumpus]

It's exciting to see the Bobcats spending money but this has the potential to be our worst offseason yet if Richardson/Carroll don't make us dramatically better.



Potentially the best or potentially the worst. What we did this summer was some risky moves, but honestly, did you want another summer of the only FA pickups being Othella Harrington, as well as midseason pickups of Derek Anderson and Jeff Mcinnis - who were needed due to lack of depth.

Now that's the type of team I do not want. A team that makes little to no FA pickups or trades. Granted, we were restricted due to expansion salary issues, but we were so under the cap it was frustrating. Al Harrington could have been picked up and probably would be looking pretty good in our PF spot right now with this type of offense.

Granted, the 2006 free agent market, as well as the draft, was the weakest in years so props to the team at the same time for not spending on Ben Wallace who only has a couple of years left in the tank.


On contracts, I don't even want to get into the discussion of Larry Hughes(12 million), Damon Jones (4.1 million) and as a matter of fact most of the Cavs contracts which are much horrible, with no chance of redemption. J-Rich can and hopefully will be an all star.

Also, if you look at elite shooting guards making between 14-18 million: Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis(shooter, not shooting guard), Michael Redd, Joe Johnson (13 million). It would have been tough to get Pierce(conference rival and 30 years old), Allen (32), Lewis (insanity contract), Redd (excellent player but he's not going anywhere, Johnson(another good choice, but also not going anywhere becuase of division rivalry). A good-great shooting guard with upside is a hard find.

I honestly think it would have been nearly impossible to find a better choice in the players that are available and are not on the downside.

[dnbman]

The problem is the board is seriously lacking objectivity. We need a little realism to offset some of the cheerleading.


Yeah, but your objectivity is largely grounded in fantasy.

What elite sg? What players are you talking about signing? The vast majority of all-star level players are under contract and stand to gain the most from signing with their own teams. If they do switch teams, they'll play for a bonafide championship contender (ala Spurs, Suns, Jazz, etc.) rather than an upstart like the Bobcats, especially if we didn't have pieces like Richardson or depth like Carroll.

I didn't read the Ford article you posted because I didn't have Insider. However, if it's his article about franchise players, the article addresses how Orlando hurt themselves by signing Lewis to an immense contract. It didn't say signing Lewis was bad, just the manner they did it and the amount they paid for him. It said nothing about signing 3-4 all-stars and then signing bench players to MLEs.

Seriously, quit being so condescending on this board when you clearly don't know as much as you think. I'm sure you probably would be great in a fantasy basketball league. However, in real basketball, you actually have to establish a team identity, not just a collection of players.

[dnbman]

PLEASE I MEAN PLEASE tell me who would have been a better free agent to take for your 16.5 milion we spent. V/C its no way, hes geting old and once he loses his hops hes done for, you spend for players abilitys not names. J - RICH has a hell of a lot more upside. We sure as hell not going to get a Wade or a James for that. As for Carroll being such a bad deal we cant get rid of, just look at some of thease NBA CONTRACTS . Damn you should be happy with Carrolls contract. Hell we stolded him by NBA standerds. The average pay for a player is over 5 milion NOW. Hell it will be over seven milion by the time his contract ends. Hell if we want to complain about BAD contracts just refer back to the ALLSTAR Lewis six years 110 milion and cant play defence. And you cry about Carrolls and J- RICHES contract. Damn i guess you would have liked us to take on a contract like FRANIS 30 milion buyout. Face it it was two GREAT signings. Just take it for what it is smart decisions on the part of the Bobcats M.J. and Bernie. When something sucks i say it but when it dont i say that two. And BOTH deals were good ones.

Are you trying to tell me you really think Carrolls contract is untradeable.Man what you smoking i need some of it.


I pretty much agree with you, but we can admit the Carroll contract was on the high side. That being said:

1. It wasn't the franchise killer RD's making it out to be.
2. We needed a solid shooting guard in case Morrison doesn't work out or Richardson gets injured. Carroll is basically insurance.

[dvdbumpus]

PLEASE I MEAN PLEASE tell me who would have been a better free agent to take for your 16.5 milion we spent. V/C its no way, hes geting old and once he loses his hops hes done for, you spend for players abilitys not names. J - RICH has a hell of a lot more upside. We sure as hell not going to get a Wade or a James for that. As for Carroll being such a bad deal we cant get rid of, just look at some of thease NBA CONTRACTS . Damn you should be happy with Carrolls contract. Hell we stolded him by NBA standerds. The average pay for a player is over 5 milion NOW. Hell it will be over seven milion by the time his contract ends. Hell if we want to complain about BAD contracts just refer back to the ALLSTAR Lewis six years 110 milion and cant play defence. And you cry about Carrolls and J- RICHES contract. Damn i guess you would have liked us to take on a contract like FRANIS 30 milion buyout. Face it it was two GREAT signings. Just take it for what it is smart decisions on the part of the Bobcats M.J. and Bernie. When something sucks i say it but when it dont i say that two. And BOTH deals were good ones.

Are you trying to tell me you really think Carrolls contract is untradeable.Man what you smoking i need some of it.


I pretty much agree with you, but we can admit the Carroll contract was on the high side. That being said:

1. It wasn't the franchise killer RD's making it out to be.
2. We needed a solid shooting guard in case Morrison doesn't work out or Richardson gets injured. Carroll is basically insurance.



But you have to consider this - is Adam ever going to play SG? I don't think he will. Matt will be a 6th man. It was on the high side, but with MJ being enamored with him, Matt being the identity of the team's philosiphy, and is a dagger in the games similar to a Ben Gordon, he was expensive....but we can't only talk on terms of money. Matt will bring a lot to the plate on the bench, leadership, and ability to shoot that 3 ball and basically bring a lot of the little things to the plate.

[rallydurham]

Look, I don't care how cute Matt Carroll looks in his warmup suit on our bench. It's fine if thats important to you but I care more about winning.

Plain and simple, we need a big man. You are completely behind the 8-ball in the NBA if you don't have a big man that can score.

I'd also like to be able to re-sign Hermann after the season to a ~5 year $25 million deal but it looks like that would come at the expense of acquiring a center.

I just think it's completely irresponsible of Jordan to blow a draft pick on Morrison if he was going to give up on him after one year.

It's completely terrible to spend $20-$22 million a season on an average group of shooting guards Richardson/Carroll/Morrison.

If you're going to spend that kind of money on one position it had better be a position of strength, not mediocrity. Collecting Shooting guards like they are basketball cards when it comes at the expense of a quality big man is just stupid.

You say I'm the one talking fantasy, look at that roster. It makes no sense to load up on multiple players at the same position while ignoring the center. What would have been wrong with offering Varajao $8.5 million and just letting Morrison handle the backup SG duties?

[dav7z]

As i thought you named no player better than J- RICH thet could be traded for and now want to move to a center . Chil man its still off season M.Js made good moves so far . Hes smarter than you even if you dont think so . He will get a big and a point . Its like this hes not done yet . Hes just puting places toghter . Damn man give him time. I NOTICED yOU NAMED NO ONE whos a better choice than J - RICH we could have got. So stay off RICH and his contract. You didnt say a thing about the MAGICS contract on Lewis but you choose to blast M. J and Bernie because of Carrolls contract. Carroll can shoot from the outside better tham 90 percent of the players in the NBA , He opens the floor up for the Wallace, J-Rich, ok50 so yes its a important job . Damn dude hes just not carring the luggage.
KOPONO 4 YEAR 24milion RAPTORS [needed a shooter] same with Carroll. Then you start on CUTE are you atracted to him . do you want him to yourself with your obsesion it seems so.
Do you really belive his 4.5 milion is a contract braker for a sixth man wow i cant belive what im reading.
As for Morrison if hes traded it will be for the good of the team not just junk . Hell he was the third pick in the draft . Hes got some value. So if hes traded dont rave about him geting shafted im sure if M.J. AND Bernie trades him it will be a fair trade. Hell we still under the cap we going to pick up a big or point with it . BUT WE WILL MAKE SURE M.J AND BERNIE ASK YOU FIRST BEFOR THEY TRADE OR SPEND SIX MILION ON A BIG.Make sur you let them know how many years can be signed for. Me i like our team even if we dont win a damn game so just call me stupid as hell.

[dnbman]

Look, I don't care how cute Matt Carroll looks in his warmup suit on our bench. It's fine if thats important to you but I care more about winning.

::) That was powerfully written. Too bad it doesn't mean much. If you care about winning, then you know we also need depth and consistency. Carroll provides us both while only negligibly hurting us financially. If Carroll doesn't workout like we planned, we've got an expiring contract to trade after year 4. So, it's really not that big of a deal.


Plain and simple, we need a big man. You are completely behind the 8-ball in the NBA if you don't have a big man that can score.

That worked out pretty well for the Knicks and Curry, Portland and Randolph, Minnesota and KG, and the Pacers and O'Neal. That's four of the best scoring big men in the league. How did they do in the playoffs this year?

Quality bigs are important. However, a quality team is more important. Indiana and Minnesota are perfect examples of teams who had superstar bigs but couldn't put proper teams around them.


I'd also like to be able to re-sign Hermann after the season to a ~5 year $25 million deal but it looks like that would come at the expense of acquiring a center.

I think the Bobcats see Okafor as their starting center. We can discuss the ins and outs of Okafor's ability to play center, his size (or lack there of), and his ability to score. However, he's shown he can play the position, and the Bobcats probably feel he's a better option at C than just about anyone else they'd be able to get. That may lead to questions about our PF spot, but we've got several bigs on our roster that could fill that spot. We've got a season to see how they work out and then we can reassess.


I just think it's completely irresponsible of Jordan to blow a draft pick on Morrison if he was going to give up on him after one year.

I don't think Jordan's necessarily given up on him. On draft night he mentioned Dudley as a PF and Hermann gets burn in that spot too. Jordan probably sees Ammo as a the back up 3. Ammo's biggest value may come as a tradeable asset after this season. If Ammo can show that he can score in the league, the Bobcats can either keep him or sign and trade him to a team with starry eyes for him. If he can't score, we trade his expiring (with possible upside) contract for a veteran need.


It's completely terrible to spend $20-$22 million a season on an average group of shooting guards Richardson/Carroll/Morrison.

Richardson is far from average. The guy's a top 10 shooting guard in the league. He may not have the game taking over abilities of Bryant or McGrady, but he's awfully good and a perfect fit for the Bobcats: shoots from outside, athletic, good locker room guy, and a veteran player. Morrison isn't really a shooting guard.


If you're going to spend that kind of money on one position it had better be a position of strength, not mediocrity. Collecting Shooting guards like they are basketball cards when it comes at the expense of a quality big man is just stupid.

Which, we're not. We've basically got two shooting guards on the roster: a probable all-star in Richardson and a well paid backup who was one of our hardest working players this past year. Also, the sg spot is not one of mediocrity. Just about every championship team of the last 20 years has had a fantastic shooting guard: Ginobli, Wade, Hamilton, Bryant, Jordan, Drexler, and Dumars. Granted, Duncan, Olajuwon, and O'Neal were often the MVPs of their teams. However you're also talking about three of the top 10 bigs in the history of the sport. Those teams were lucky to have those three. If we can't have an all time center, we can make up for that by having a balanced team, ala the Pistons.

"A position of strength" is relative to the teams you are playing against, not general notions of the position. There is no spot on the roster you can simply write off as unimportant. However, even assuming your notion of the five being a more important position than the two, most nights, Okafor will be the better center on the floor. So, again, if we get a pretty solid 4, which we may already have on our roster, we'll be o.k.


You say I'm the one talking fantasy, look at that roster. It makes no sense to load up on multiple players at the same position while ignoring the center. What would have been wrong with offering Varajao $8.5 million and just letting Morrison handle the backup SG duties?


We could have still offered Varejao a contract like that and signed Carroll. But would we have wanted to? I love Varejao, but he's basically an erratic big who earns his paycheck by rebounding and flopping. He's not especially good at any other aspect of the game. He's the kind of guy that easily becomes a classic example of teams of overpaying for a big guy because of the exaggerated importance of having good bigs. You're talking about paying a guy $43 million who's best season was 7 points and 7 rebounds, rounded up. We can probably get those numbers from Davidson this year, nevermind a healthy May.

We've got several bigs on the roster; we're just not sure what we have in them. It would be more irresponsible to outbid and overpay for a questionable big like Varejao or Milicic when we're not sure yet what we already have. If we sneak in the Eastern conference playoffs, that still gives us a middle 1st round pick. We could probably find a big that will close to accomplish what those two guys have already accomplished.

We're in pretty good shape, even if we seem flimsy up front. And as so many posters have already pointed out, we can still make plenty of moves to get us the guys we need even if compromised our options to straight up sign free agents. Most of Detroit, San Antonio, and Miami's key acquisitions were drafted or traded for.

[dvdbumpus]

Does anyone else think that the need of quality bigs will be less important in our style of offense, based on the example of the run and gun with GS?

[dav7z]

I am happy with the players we have . And i think the run a gun style will be good for us as well as the team .My main worrie is a back up point whitch im sure we will get. We could use a big but could get by with out one this year . Assess the team this year and add to it next year. That might very well be what we going to do.
We may have better knowledge as to what changes we need to make then. But if we go that way we dont need to sign ok50 til next season. We loseing a lot in contracts next year so we might be able to get another good free agent next year . We should have more money to sign players than any one else.

[dav7z]

Hell if we just fill the roster with one year contracts this year.And don't resign ok50 this year . We going to be siting in the drivers seat next year. Being able to make our final moves on the free agant market.
Just look at the salerys for next year . We will have over 27 MILION to spend on free agents and our roster players. No other team in the NBA can even come close to that.Check out Charlottes o8-09 contracts. Add Wallace and Carroll to it we still have over 27 milion to spend.
http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

Name your free agent no one else has the money...........

[Grandmama]

My main issue with rally's comments, and granted I am too lazy to go back and look at the older posts, is are you suggesting we go after next year instead of JRich/Carroll combo? Brand? Arenas? KG?

I see Brand staying out in LA now that he is doing all this movie stuff, and Arenas doesent give you much more than scoring and above average rebounding from a pg, would Arenas even work as a 2? Plus Arenas seems to need the media attention of a bigger market KG? He's getting up there in age and who knows how much tread he has left the way Minny has been riding him for so many years.

[jpf_v2.0]

Hell if we just fill the roster with one year contracts this year.And don't resign ok50 this year . We going to be siting in the drivers seat next year. Being able to make our final moves on the free agant market.
Just look at the salerys for next year . We will have over 27 MILION to spend on free agents and our roster players. No other team in the NBA can even come close to that.Check out Charlottes o8-09 contracts. Add Wallace and Carroll to it we still have over 27 milion to spend.
http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

Name your free agent no one else has the money...........


You're mis-reading that site. The numbers for us don't include Felton, May, or Morrison since those are all team options (and realistically I'd expect at least Felton & Morrison's to be picked up).

When you figure those options in, the qualifying offer amount for Emeka (which is 7.0 someting), and the expected numbers for Carroll and G-Dub (4.5 and 10 respectively), it brings us up to around 45.9 mill already accounted for next year in 8 players.

If the cap increases the same amount it has the past few years, that would put us around 12 million under the cap, which is still a pretty decent number to have to work with.

[dav7z]

No im not saying any thing like that at all. Im just saying siene we just signed J- RICH , Wallace and Carroll , We wait a year look at the team and make changes to add to J-Rich and Wallace and Carroll, We can them resign the players we want such as OK50 and who ever else we want then. We will have a better idea how they play toghter and see all our weakness. PLUS we will have over 27 milion to address the matter.
NO TEAM except us will have the flexability to do what we want under the cap rules . So then we might be able to steal some players being ALL other teams will have cap truble.............. ALL teams but us.................

All so we can apply the bird rule to our players.Whitch would put us up to around 69 milion to spend total.

[Aymi]

I'd feel better if we got a backup for Felton. McInnis needs to go!

[jpf_v2.0]

No im not saying any thing like that at all. Im just saying siene we just signed J- RICH , Wallace and Carroll , We wait a year look at the team and make changes to add to J-Rich and Wallace and Carroll, We can them resign the players we want such as OK50 and who ever else we want then. We will have a better idea how they play toghter and see all our weakness. PLUS we will have over 27 milion to address the matter.
NO TEAM except us will have the flexability to do what we want under the cap rules . So then we might be able to steal some players being ALL other teams will have cap truble.............. ALL teams but us.................

All so we can apply the bird rule to our players.Whitch would put us up to around 69 milion to spend total.


Not really.

We'll be around 12 million under the cap, and in those numbers counting against our cap will be a 7 million dollar qualifying offer for Emeka that will be there until he's re-signed/signs elsewhere. That leaves us 12 million to sign free agents.

You're right that we can go over the cap to re-sign our own using the Bird exception, but the Bird exception (where you can sign the player for any amount up to the max) only applies to Emeka.

To sign Hermann and go over, it would be the early Bird exception which allows 175% of his previous year (this coming seasons) salary or the NBA average salary which ever is greater, which would be the average salary (this year it was 5.3 Mill) in the 1st year of a new deal for Hermann.

So we'd have 17.3 million (the 12 mill we'd be under the cap & the 5.3 mill we can go over the cap to re-sign Hermann for the first year of his contract using the early Bird exception using this years average salary figure as a basis for Hermann's number) to re-sign Hermann & add free agents under the cap.

We could then sign Emeka to any amount we wanted, but we don't have this 27 million to spend that you seem to think we do...unless you're planning on giving Emeka 17 mill a year (the 7 mill his qualifying offer counts against our cap until his new deal is done & this other 10 mill you seem to be under the impression we have to spend).

[Mustachio]

not to mention... Bob has already spent a ton of money this offseason.

you gotta think he is sweatin like hell sittin in his office right now. i mean saying theres a lot of good contracts out there, and that we have the money is one thing...

the franchise thinking its smart to spend all the money just to spend it is another.

[jpf_v2.0]

Not to mention that with 7 million already earmarked for Emeka in his qualifying offer, I see little chance he gets more than another 3 mill more for a total of 10 mill. Anymore than that (if even that much) would probably be unwise given his back.

So even with that 3 mill figured into these numbers, that still only puts us around 20 million total that we can realistically expect to spend, with a little over 8 million of that only being 'allowed' to be used to re-sign 2 of our own players.

Still 7 million less than he's thinking.

[Mustachio]

also everyone seems to think that signing Okafor will be easy and cheap.

but i dont see any reason why he should make less than what Dwight Howard just got. and i see that as a problem for the front office.

[dav7z]

Ok soft cap is 55 milion hard cap is 67 milion lux tax after that. 1 per 1 over hard cap.
08-09
1. J- Rich 12.2 mil
2. Wallace 10.0 mil
3 Carroll 5 milion
TOTAL 27.2 MILION LEAVES 27.8 miloin under soft cap 40 milion under hard cap.
4 Harrington ... cut
5 Primoz ........cut
6 May ...........cut if not team opt.2.6 T.O
7. Knight........ GONE
8. Hollins ....... Cut or 1.0 milion
9. Morrison....... cut or 4.2 milion T.O
10 Felton......... cut or 4.1 milion T.O
11 Herrmann........cut or contract
12 Okafor.........7.0 quilifing
13 Dudley........ 1.6 MILION
I EXPECT May to be cut if he dont have a great year Harrington and Premoz gone too. 1.5 Million from Knight.
If Morrison suks again we could cut him [ LETS NOT]
Same with Felton [ LETS NOT]
Rich , Wallace, Carroll,28.8 milion
Felton 4.1 milion
Morrison 4.2 million
just because Hollins 1.0
Guess we should Herrmann 6 .0 for 4 years fire
With Morrison and Felton 44 MILION WITHOUT Morrison . Felton
35.8 Million
befor Okafor we can sign between soft being 57 milion at least 12 to 13 milion with OUT Morrison ,Felton , Herrmonn.Hollins we have befor the cap. 28 MILION BEFOR THE SOFT CAP. Oke 12 milion six year bird clause. That way we have a hell of a lot of options.

[dav7z]

Im just saying we sit this year see how things pan out and make our moves next year then we know more of what we have. We will run the market money wize next year.

[dnbman]

I've been getting a little confused by some of these posts. So, here is my run down of what I think our options are for next year:

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/charlotte.htm

Richardson, Wallace, Carroll, and Dudley will cost us us about $28 next year.

But, we've got Morrison, Felton, and May with team options of about $11. We will most certainly pick up those options unless one of them is permanently injured or is flat out terrible. If they're mediocre, we will more than likely pick up their options.

So, that's $37. Okafor will likely get his extension before the season ends. If he doesn't, we'd have $7 tied up in him while we figured out what to do. That takes us to at least $44. Hermann will count against us by about $3 until we release or sign him. So, that's $47. That doesn't include any money for Hollins, Davidson, or any other free agent we may sign this year. That also doesn't include the contract of our first round pick next year.

So, assuming we didn't resign Okafor until next summer (which I don't think is going to happen; we'll sign him sooner), we'd have probably closer to about $7-8M to sign players. But keep in mind, next year we'll have to sign several players since we'd likely be losing at least 3-4 on that scenario.

My guess is that we lock up our own players for the security and then go after a MLE player next year.

Once this summer finishes up, we should be able to see a clearer picture of this.

[dav7z]

Very good right . All im really saying is we have so many expiring contracts . All we really oblagated too is around 28 milion. So if we wait and see who to keep and let go with no other team with cap space we can pick and chose. We might want to let May go or Felton go or Morrison go for a better player we have that option. We might not want to resign Oakafor [ say he gets hurt bad ]
We might want another p/f instead of Herrmann say hes just a one year wandor . We have a hell of a lot of options as to whitch way to go. If we dont sign Oakfor this year whos going to be able to sign him next year but us .
HELL WE HOLDING ALL THE CARDS very good right.

[dvdbumpus]

If we're in the running for the playoffs I could see us take a salary off of someone's hands and trade some expiring contracts. I hope there's a sweet firesale that comes about which allows us to benefit. Of course, I hope we're also in the running to be able to do anything at all.

Elton Brand, anyone :biggrin:

[Mustachio]

i think the beauty of it besides the specifics and money talk... the management has built a very very SOLID team so far, with plenty of wiggle room still available.

so as a fourth year team, we have a shot at the playoffs THIS year, and a shot to add peices to make us a finals contender as soon as next year.... you gotta be happy about that.

[jpf_v2.0]

befor Okafor we can sign between soft being 57 milion at least 12 to 13 milion with OUT Morrison ,Felton , Herrmonn.Hollins we have befor the cap. 28 MILION BEFOR THE SOFT CAP. Oke 12 milion six year bird clause. That way we have a hell of a lot of options.


There is no "before" Okafor. He counts 7 million against us until he's either re-signed, signs elsewhere, or we relinquish his rights. That brings the 38 mill to 45 million.

IF we're going to re-sign Hermann, we'd have to sign him to an offer sheet since he'll be a restricted free agent. That'd place a hold on the amount of the average NBA salary next season plus 150K for Hermann until he's either re-signed, signs elsewhere, or we relinquish his rights. That number this year would be about 5.5 million. That brings the 45 million to over 50 million.

If the cap increases by the same ballpark figure it did this year, that'd leave us about 8 million under it.

You're under the impression that there's no amount counted against our cap for these guys until we sign them to new deals or they sign elsewhere. That's not true. The very fact that there is holds placed on the cap for these type of players is why the Magic had to relinquish their rights to Darko in order to have room to acquire Rashard Lewis.

You also are not counting in options on guys that we can't replace (let alone replace with better players) for the same amount of money in order to get to what it is you want the numbers to show. The only one I can possibly see us not bringing back of those three would would be May.

BTW- you didn't include the 7 mill qualifying offer for Emeka in your math in this part...


Rich , Wallace, Carroll,28.8 milion
Felton 4.1 milion
Morrison 4.2 million
just because Hollins 1.0
Guess we should Herrmann 6 .0 for 4 years fire
With Morrison and Felton 44 MILION WITHOUT Morrison . Felton
35.8 Million

If you had included it, those numbers would be close to right.

One other thing, there is no soft cap and hard cap in the NBA. The NBA's entire salary cap system is considered a soft cap since you can go over it. What you keep calling the hard cap is the luxury tax threshold. A hard cap is what the NFL has where you can't go over it period.

[dav7z]

All im saying is we should wait til next year to make any more moves . DECIDE ON WHO WE WANT TO KEEP and who we let go. I know each and ever one of those guys count against our cap . DO you even think its smart to keep this whole team. We might decide to renounce Oakfor. Hell he might get hurt bad we never know. If Morrison gets no playing time and sucks shooting do you still want to keep him. We might have a better option at point guard than Felton. Why do we keep him if its a better player out thair for the same price. What if Mays knee is shot for life do we pay him to eat krispy cream doughnuts. Lets just say Hermann is a one year wander do you want to pay him to be a starting foward. The 1.5 milion for B.K you want the league to keep it. Harrington is a good team person so we keep him right . Premoz starts hiting shots so we let him go right. All im saying is no other team is in a position to make all thease choices so why not be smart and wait til next year to make the decisions. All we have in contracts thet we have to pay is around 29 milion. The rest is our choices. Every one seems to think we have to resign ALL thease guys we dont. So what is the money called between the soft cap of 55 milion and the Lux tax at 67 milion. what is the money in between that called.Refer to Tambs SALERY ARTICAL about a soft cap.

[dav7z]

you right about the term used as a hard cap . this might help us some.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

[Muttley]

Why would you want to cripple our cap flexibility over Jake Voskuhl??? After we add the main pieces to our team then we will have all the room in the world to get all the Jake Voskuhl's your little heart desires.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2941693

Well, it looks like Jake's no longer an option anyways, no matter how much money we do or don't have. I think it's a shame, since he brought a lot of hustle and heart to the floor. However, there may be better options that I just don't know about. Perhaps the bucks will release Boykins as part of JV's signing and we can get us another PG.

Really though, I think we should probably just sit on what we have now and, as some of you have been saying, we'll know more about what to do next summer when the season starts.

[dav7z]

Great find , REP IT UP , welcome to the board good post. Jake must have not wanted to play for us. Ive heard we offered him the same contract . We just didn't want to offer him a long term contract. Must have pissed him off. Its still some bigs out thair . Hes just a banger we should be able to find one of them.

[jpf_v2.0]

you right about the term used as a hard cap . this might help us some.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm


I already know about that.

Anyway, while you're right that we do have all the flexibility in the world, you're not being realistic.

Do you really think we'll find a starting point guard that would be an improvement over Felton for the same amount of money he makes?

There's a good chance that a good portion of the roster we have right now won't be back next year, but it's unrealistic to think that we could find better players for the same amount some of our guys that are still on their rookie contracts are making.

[dnbman]

We have some room, but we'd be cutting guys who will likely turn into the players we'd be overpaying for next year. Remember too, most of those teams will have more money to work with because they'll be losing those free agents.

To back up JPF's point, to acquire a guy who can already do what Felton does would probably cost us $8 a year. That's what Mo Williams got, and the only thing he really does better than Felton is shoot a higher fg%. If Felton gets his fg% up, he'll be an $8-9M player easily. I didn't look for this post, but I think the only significant guard that won't almost certainly resign with his team is Arenas, who would want $20+M a year. Being realistic, Felton is the guy we should go with so long as he shows improvement and starts to make better decisions.

I think at this point we've already got a team concept in place, we just have to find the right supporting pieces. Felton, Richardson, and Wallace will likely be a quality athletic two way trio for years. Okafor will anchor our defense. We just have to find the right complimentary big for that unit. We've got some good glue guys and backups. It doesn't make sense to blow that up just to try and get a bonafide all-star.

The only way I see us making a big direction change is if one of the following happens:

1. One of Richardson, Okafor, or Wallace become frequently injured. We need those guys to stay relatively healthy for this team to work. If one of them can't, we'll have to make some big decisions.

2. Felton can't figure out how to run the team. At that point, we'll probably have to do some gambling to find another pg who will. After we've got another big in place, it wouldn't be a bad move to use a high draft pick on another pg. I love Felton and am fairly sure of his future. But you need to have insurance. This coming year might be the ideal year to pick up a backup pg, as there are many pgs to likely come out and we can groom that player during Felton's team option year. If Felton couldn't get it together for his big contract year, then we could hand the reigns to the new kid.

Other than those two things and an invasion from Mars, I don't see too much happening to this core unit for the next 4-5 years.

[dav7z]

I agree with what you just said. It will be hard to beat Felton at point ,And some of the others we talked about. But all im trying to get across is we have a year to make those choices. We need to stay as flexable as we can because in the NBA YOU NEVER KNOW WHATS GOING TO HAPPEN.
As far as being realistic im very . Its just stupid to think we going to cut or let go all those players. But we can and should make some changes depending on what next year brings. Having the flexability has a hell of a lot to do with it.

[jpf_v2.0]

Don't get me wrong, I love the situation we're in. We've got a roster that as it stands now (with the addition of a back-up PG obviously) has a realistic chance at the playoffs. Add to that we're sitting pretty decent with the cap for next season.

I just think you're under the impression we're sitting better with it than we realistically are.

[dav7z]

Na i just want to have patience. I know we got cap space and we going to have to add about three players. Nothing like max contracts . But we should be able to up grade our bigs , And be able to have solid back up at ever position. But we need to see whos a keeper and whos not. A year wuth the new coach we should know a lot more. Things like can Walter be a starting four. Are we going to be useing Morrison enough to keep at the wing. Is Felton the starting point for our fucture. All of this will be seen this year. And i feel like M.J. and Bernie can iron it all out . We made good moves this year because we took our time and worked it out . Thats what i want us to keep doing.

[Mustachio]

Na i just want to have patience. I know we got cap space and we going to have to add about three players. Nothing like max contracts . But we should be able to up grade our bigs , And be able to have solid back up at ever position. But we need to see whos a keeper and whos not. A year wuth the new coach we should know a lot more. Things like can Walter be a starting four. Are we going to be useing Morrison enough to keep at the wing. Is Felton the starting point for our fucture. All of this will be seen this year. And i feel like M.J. and Bernie can iron it all out . We made good moves this year because we took our time and worked it out . Thats what i want us to keep doing.


POST OF THE MONTH NOMINEE! i cant add anything. its perfect.

[jpf_v2.0]

Agreed 100%!

We're sitting in a real good place...especially for an expansion team entering it's 4th year in the league!