Would you:

[dvdbumpus]

Offer Melvin Ely a 1 year, minimum salary contract to him(in turn the NBA pays a large portion of the salary). We need big man offense, and honestly can't do worse than any other option that's left.

[ziggy]

I'd prefer someone a little more defensive minded, but at this point beggars can't be choosers and we need another big man on the roster.

Yes I'd make the offer.

[dav7z]

I would prefer more of a rebounding center and defence player. I wolldn;t disagree with the signing. I just think spot is more a defence role........

[spectre]

Not really interested. I love his post up hook when it's on, but it's not usually. He's injury prone, weak on D and slow as hell. If we're going to bring in a big guy I want a defensive presence for insurance in case we lose Mek.

[davcbow]

Not really interested. I love his post up hook when it's on, but it's not usually. He's injury prone, weak on D and slow as hell. If we're going to bring in a big guy I want a defensive presence for insurance in case we lose Mek.


Excellant Point, we will need a defensive presence for insurance in case we lose Mek. :g:

[dvdbumpus]

Damn...what's left really sucks, cuz we're talking about Melvin F*ckin Ely.

[dav7z]

I would rather have a defencive player from the D league if need be.

[Keetch]

Been there, done that.

Not interested in Ely. I always thought he was lazy.

We'd have to waive Harrington. I'd be interested in Esteban Batista of Uruguay instead. He looked great in the FIBA Tournament.

Whoa LeBron just slammed on Argentina :) sweet

[123together]

might as well i guess. maybe we could trade him again hehe

[dvdbumpus]

might as well i guess. maybe we could trade him again hehe


Haha, Maybe we'll get another Eric Williams? I have a suggestion - Trade him for Bernard Robinson :P

[Slam]

How about Patrick O'Bryant. Word is that Nellie will be back with the Warriors next season and he is not a fan of POB at all.

While he hasn't done much as yet since being drafted #9 overall in '06, he is a legit 7 footer with outstanding length and size. He is also a very impressive shot blocker.

I'm sure if we wanted him it wouldn't cost us much to get him. I'd start with offering Primoz and maybe a 2nd.

Keep in mind that POB is only 20 years old too so he's still a baby with a whole lot of room to grow.

Look at what happend to Jermaine when he left the Blazers.

Thoughts?

[Alex]

Ely sucks I'm glad he's gone and I don't want him back.

[tamburello]

Patric O'Bryant spent much of last season in D-League, and word is that he showed little progress. I am not sure he worths a try, also I don't think GSW will give up on him too soon.

I have a more interesting idea. What about Chris Taft? Do you know what is this guy doing at the moment? I know after being cut by Warriors, he wasn't signed by any teams in two years' time.

[Slam]

In 25 games in the D, POB averaged:

12ppg
9.6rpg
1.4qpg
2.8bpg

in only 29mpg.

And again, he's ONLY 20 years old.

He posses a 7’5 wingspan and a 9’4 standing reach.

[tamburello]

He looks like a good project, but I guess we're looking for some temprorary solutions. We already have big man projects in Hollins and Davidson. We have to find contributors rightaway, IMHO.

Don Nelson didn't trust so many players last year, despite having potentially great contributors (see Sarunas Jasikevicius). He used very few players. Maybe O'Bryant was victim of that perspective, I don't know.

[Slam]

I do agree with you there tamburello. I'm not super geeked about the thought of 3 prospect bigs on the roster at the same time, but I would think that if we made a move for POB, Twiggy would automatically be on the outer (unless Davidson really blows).

Essentially all Twiggy will ever be is a shot blocker and POB is that, has some offense and can at least board.

[spectre]

I'm fine with upgrading the prospects, but I'm leary of doing anything to hurt us this season unless it's a damn fine one. The positive of this idea is that we have Higgins...if it's worth making a move he'd be the one who'd know.

[Slam]

POB is far from the top of my wish list but I just think that he might be worth the gamble? Like you said Spectre, if he was worth getting, Higgins would be in the know.

My order of realistic targets would be:

LMA
Charlie V
Frye
POB

[EvetsMorrison15]

How about Steven Hunter

He averaged . . . .

PPG - 6.4
RPG - 4.8
BPG - 1.1
MPG - 22.9

He's taller then Ely 7'0 to 6'10 ( more of a presents )
He's lighter than Ely 240 to 262 ( faster )
Good back up.

[dvdbumpus]

I'd like him, but unfortunately he's got 3 years 10+ million left on his current contract, and is young so it'd be hard to grab him.

[qchoops]

Short answer on Ely: No.
On POB: Sure, if we got rid of one of our current prospects (Hollins, Davidson) in exchange. But I don't see that happening. At 20, POB is about 3 years younger than Davidson, so there's more room to grow at least. I would not want to give up Primoz to get him. At least Primoz has played in the league and can provide adequate depth and minutes, not something that can be said for any of the youngsters.

[Slam]

Word has it that the GSW's aren't going to pick up POB's option after this season so mayeb we could sign him outright?

[dav7z]

Slam i have heard that rumor to. But with the project bigs we all ready have . Would we not be better off signing D. Anderson.I don't know, thoughts. We strong at the wings too.

[123together]

How about Patrick O'Bryant. Word is that Nellie will be back with the Warriors next season and he is not a fan of POB at all.

While he hasn't done much as yet since being drafted #9 overall in '06, he is a legit 7 footer with outstanding length and size. He is also a very impressive shot blocker.

I'm sure if we wanted him it wouldn't cost us much to get him. I'd start with offering Primoz and maybe a 2nd.

Keep in mind that POB is only 20 years old too so he's still a baby with a whole lot of room to grow.

Look at what happend to Jermaine when he left the Blazers.

Thoughts?


he's a lot better than primoz and hollins haha. so i'd definitely pull the trigger on that one (primoz and a 2nd rounder). obviously the warriors would have to want to do it too hehe

[davcbow]

I compared his #'s to Hollins #'s and they dont look that different to me.
All Hollins needs is some playing time to gain experience same with POB, so I dont think we would be any better off. :g:

[qchoops]

6/20/86 to 10/10/84. The nearly 2 year age difference is the only reason I would have interest in POB - similar numbers despite being that much younger is a large mark in his favor.

[Slam]

Plus POB showed much more promise in College.

[dvdbumpus]

Plus POB showed much more promise in College.


For anybody curious, POB had this statline: 13.4 PPG, 8.3 RPG, 2.9 BPG

In comparison, Hollins had roughly 7 points, 4.8 boards, and less than a block per game.

This was also done with a roughly 4 minute differential on playing time.

[bobcat4life]

we need an answer for this situation before training camp so that we could go into camp and work together as a time and come out a team. pob would be better i think if we could get him away from gs for something minimum like hollis or either a sec. rd. pick. Maybe would should have tried to get him in the trade with j-rich since they seem to not want him. if not pob then we need to go after varejo quick and let harrington go and sign d.a. :afro:

[qchoops]

Dropping Harrington and adding Varejao would be almost ideal. But I don't think we have room under the cap at this point, with payroll at $51.33 and the cap at $55.63 mill. I don't know the CBA well enough to know if cutting Harrington will clear his salary from this year's salary figure, but even if it did - he's only due 2.4 million this year...and I am not sure that a 7 million dollar offer is going to get Varjao.

[Slam]

If we cut Piggy his numbers would still go against our cap.

[dav7z]

From what i can tell we are futher under the cap than you think.
Check this link out and add in say 5 milion for Carroll whitch i think is a little high . That should give us about six milion to Vareajo . We could do like a four year 28 milion or so .


http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/charlotte.htm


Imjust guessing we at least6 milion under the cap


I think we at about 49,416 at a high est.
cap 55,600 little over six

[Keetch]

Yup sure would; so probably the Bobcats do nothing.

But Harrington's contract is only for this year. If they were aggressive, they'd waive him anyway and sign another player who either can actually contribute something or has the potential to.

If they ate Othella Harrington's contract that would really impress me.

Man I get tired of cruel nicknames by Bobcats fans for Bobcats players...I'm starting my own list..with "Piggy."

[dav7z]

Harrington will count against us no matter what . unless we could trade him. Whitch i doubt we can.I would just try to sign Vareajo . Then if we lose a player we sign a point like we did last season. Im afraid we about done building after we sign OK50 we well have to start fighting the luxery tax. I say we make one more good signing first.

[qchoops]

I looked at our salary numbers from http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/bobcats.jsp

[chabber]

Those numbers aren't correct. Crash isn't getting 9.5M this year.

[dvdbumpus]

Those numbers aren't correct. Crash isn't getting 9.5M this year.


Crash is only getting 7.5 million this year (http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/charlotte.htm)

Also, the hard salary cap is $65 mil, not 55. We still have more room than any other team in the league by more than 4 million. This means that Cleveland is the last team under the hard cap @ 64.946 million (making it hard to sign Varajao.) Just some fuel for the fire.

[tamburello]

There is a big conflict on Wallace's contract. Look at that site, which claims Wallace will earn 12.8 mil this year on his front loaded contract.
http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/07-08salaries.htm

[Slam]

Man I get tired of cruel nicknames by Bobcats fans for Bobcats players...I'm starting my own list..with "Piggy."





Really? Because I get tired of over weight, useless guy's who are getting paid millions and millions of dollars to either sit on our bench and not contribute or even worse, continually miss games due to injury and take up not only important salary cap space but more importantly a valuable roster spot.

[dav7z]

From all thease saleries its no telling where we at.
If Wallace and Carroll is both frunt loaded we may be in great shape next year in free agency. Of corse we would be at a soft cap max now. But we could easly add a player and redo ok50s contract next year.. I kinda hope both contracts are frunt loaded.

[Keetch]

If I'm an overweight architect and I produce a nasty ugly building and get paid a million bucks for it; you might and probably should criticize my work, but unless you either have no conscience or are simply adolescent; you wouldn't call me a pig.

Slam I understand where you're coming from; you're certainly not alone, so I don't mean to single you out; but I just get tired of it and couldn't resist. If a Bobcat goes off and trashes the team or goes Starbury or Sprewell or whatever, then I'm down with it I guess, its sports, and a good deal of adolescence is expected. But Harrington ain't no different now than he was when Bernie signed him.

Sigh; I wish someone would sign me to a 2 year guaranteed contract for millions and then waive my ass. Oh well. :)

[dnbman]

Also, the hard salary cap is $65 mil, not 55. We still have more room than any other team in the league by more than 4 million. This means that Cleveland is the last team under the hard cap @ 64.946 million (making it hard to sign Varajao.) Just some fuel for the fire.


There is no hard cap in the NBA. There is the soft cap and then there is the point where you start paying a luxury tax. The only change that occurs in your ability to sign players is at the soft cap. Once you go over the soft cap, you can sign your own players for as high an amount as the CBA allows. Cleveland can sign Varejao for the league max. We could only sign him for either the amount up to the soft cap OR the mid level exception if we went over the cap.

The big problem we have with going after a player like that is that we'd be right on the edge of the luxury tax line after we resign Okafor. We wouldn't have as much wiggle room (assuming we resign our own free agents) in the next couple of years, especially after we reup on Felton. The smart thing now is probably to try and get a good deal for Okafor and then use the MLE for the right piece next year. We don't need to jump the gun on Varejao when we might get solid production from guys we have.

[davcbow]

We don't need to jump the gun on Varejao when we might get solid production from guys we have.


Thats what I think too. I think we should see what we already have and how they perform this year and make the next big move next year. If its just terrible at the back up position we still have until the trade deadline to make a trade of some kind, but I think the team will be fine this season with what we have. Dont count out Primoz yet, he just had a bad season last year. Hollins just needs experience and the only way to get experience is to play. :g:

[dvdbumpus]

Thanks for the correction and lesson dnbman, +1 rep for the knowledge.

[dnbman]

Thanks for the correction and lesson dnbman, +1 rep for the knowledge.


No worries. The NBA didn't do the fans a lot of favors with their complicated CBA. However, they did make some pretty good rules that handled some issues while still allowing all markets to compete.

[dnbman]

I think we should see what we already have and how they perform this year and make the next big move next year. If its just terrible at the back up position we still have until the trade deadline to make a trade of some kind, but I think the team will be fine this season with what we have. Dont count out Primoz yet, he just had a bad season last year. Hollins just needs experience and the only way to get experience is to play. :g:


Right. And if guys like May and Hermann aren't working, I'm not sure Varejao would be make us that much better of a contender anyway. He's more of defensive spark plug than a great starting 4 or 5. We can probably get a guy next year who would be adequate in that role for less than half of Varejao's price.

[dav7z]

DEBMAN i agree with you to a point. To me it depends where we at as far as cap space. If we at 49 milion 400k i say we offer Vareajo a 4 year starting at six milion a year. Because we droping over 10 milion in contracts next year like in Harrington , B.K , Jeff etc. So signing Vareajo dosen't hurt. All so Clevland is all ready in the 64 milion lux tax so what ever they sign him for is 2 for 1. So if the match six milion they have to pay 12 milion for him . That puts a hurting on them big time.
If Carroll and Wallace has frunt loaded contracts and we at the soft cap then we just need to resign D Anderson for a vertran mimum.

[spectre]

I don't think you get the MLE unless you're over the soft cap.

I agree there is no hard cap, but most team's owners try to treat it as such...esp. the small market teams without gazillionaire owners...that luxury tax sharing usually ends up being a couple million I think. I see us being one of those teams at least for the short hall.

I haven't run the numbers (and it's hard as we don't know contract structure), but you have to at least consider the argument that we won't have the advantage of capspace to offer FAs after re-upping the guys we want to keep...so IF there's room now might be the time to go after a Varejao type.

[qchoops]

Dnbman - good point, Varejao is not the missing piece that takes the Bobcats from a fringe playoff team to a title contender next season, so there is no reason to mortgage the future on him. Giving Herrmann and May a chance to prove themselves this coming season does seem like the prudent course of action.
All of this talk has led me to wish the NBA was more forthcoming with salary information - why do they feel the need to keep the contracts secret from the fans?

[dnbman]

DEBMAN i agree with you to a point. To me it depends where we at as far as cap space. If we at 49 milion 400k i say we offer Vareajo a 4 year starting at six milion a year. Because we droping over 10 milion in contracts next year like in Harrington , B.K , Jeff etc. So signing Vareajo dosen't hurt.


Yeah, but that 49 doesn't include Okafor's raise, Hermann's contract (if he pans out), or our first round pick (assuming we don't trade it). All of a sudden that 49M turns into 56-57M pretty easily. If we signed Varejao, we'd be at 62M+ and no depth at pg.

I'd just rather wait and pick up a cheaper backup PF, which is all Varejao really is, even if he is a dynamo, next year after we've evaluated our talent and figured out exactly what kind of player we need.

[davcbow]

How does a front loaded contract work? Ive never heard that term before. :g:

[dnbman]

I don't think you get the MLE unless you're over the soft cap.


You're right. But if we pay Varejao now, we'll unquestionably be over the cap and would then be over the luxury tax if Felton pans out and we extend his contract. I'd rather wait until next season or the season after to get the guy we really need.

As for next season, we can either use the wiggle money we have or part of the MLE. Either way, it's better than spending so much money on Varejao.

[qchoops]

davcbow - not sure if that was sarcasm or not, so i'll take the chance - a front loaded contract is where the contract actually declines in average salary over the course of the contract, rather than the traditional yearly increase. It generally allows the player to make slightly more money overall, as they are helping the team by giving the team greater flexibility in signing players in the later years.

[dnbman]

How does a front loaded contract work? Ive never heard that term before. :g:


The salary would reduce each year rather than increase. However, we don't know if Wallace's is front loaded or not. HoopsHype has it as a regular contract.

The reason why you don't see them that often is the CBA has rules for how much more each player can make from the previous season (or contract max, depending on how long a player has been in the league.) Consequently, there are no contracts where a guy gets $25M in the first year and then goes down, at least not since the newest CBA. The only way Wallace could have such a contract is if the maximum amount of the first year fell under the maximum contract allowed for his years of service. Here's a breakdown of the league maximum salaries:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#11

[spectre]

I don't think you get the MLE unless you're over the soft cap.


You're right. But if we pay Varejao now, we'll unquestionably be over the cap and would then be over the luxury tax if Felton pans out and we extend his contract. I'd rather wait until next season or the season after to get the guy we really need.

As for next season, we can either use the wiggle money we have or part of the MLE. Either way, it's better than spending so much money on Varejao.


Agreed really on Varejao...like you I see him as a 6th man type (tho he'd probably push for the starting gig with us this season) and we're loaded with those. I really am fine with standing pat and possibly making some move before the deadline either with a great deal including a pick like Bernie kept trying to do or else pull in a vet min Marc Jackson type to cover an injury.

Guys like Mikey Moore can be had for the MLE and that's probably sufficient.

[dnbman]

It generally allows the player to make slightly more money overall, as they are helping the team by giving the team greater flexibility in signing players in the later years.


I think that's true in football, but it's not in the NBA. If anything, it does help a team maintain flexibility. However, unlike football, the NBA has maximum amounts the increase each year. To get the maximum amount of money, you'd have to sign a regular annual increasing contract.

[dnbman]

I really am fine with standing pat and possibly making some move before the deadline either with a great deal including a pick like Bernie kept trying to do or else pull in a vet min Marc Jackson type to cover an injury.

Guys like Mikey Moore can be had for the MLE and that's probably sufficient.


And, of course, we could always draft a solid big. Next year's draft looks pretty good for quality big men. It might be better to draft an experienced college guy a the low first round contract and groom him into what we need.

[dav7z]

How does a front loaded contract work? Ive never heard that term before. :g:


A frunt loaded contract whitch i hope we did. Is the amount of money given to a player .Thats larger the first year of the contract and decreases each year thair after.Thair for the team has more money to work with as the years pass by.