CRASH 2.0

[Mustachio]

ITS TRAINING CAMP TIME! sorry im a little excited.

Ok by now you've all seen the media day pic's and what not.

Does anyone else notice how big Gerald Wallace looks. He looks about 20 pounds heavier and about 200 lbs stronger.

include a pic i shall
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/57/fullj.getty-76112960ks031_bobcats.jpg


to me he looks huge. NOW THIS IS PURE SPECULATION... NO FACTS... just like i like it.

putting on lbs and muscle can mean lots of things. maybe in this situation it means:
- Crash got stronger to avoid injuries
- Coach V wants Crash bigger so he can play down low (as he does now very effectively) but now that he is bigger and stronger he can beat and bang with less consequence.

This would help cushion any letdown from Sean "glandular problem" May.
we talked about it often last season... the idea of Crash playing PF. some were for it... others against it strongly.
but most of the opposition came from the injury scare. "we dont want him getting hurt at PF" and thats understandable.

My question is - Is it possible we wanna run like hell and go not small ball but smaller than usual ball. with a bigger bulker Crash playing PF. (where he will still be faster, quicker and play higher than most every other PF)

Felton, Carrol/Morrison, J-rich, Crash, Okafor. To me thats the best way to get your best players on the floor at the same time. play to your strengths i say.

[Muttley]

From the bobcat's site (blogcat's training camp blog):

To no one’s surprise, Wallace has dedicated himself to improving this offseason. Although he’s still listed as 220 pounds on the Bobcats Training Camp roster, it’s evident he’s put on some more muscle in his upper body – something that can only help him as he bangs around in the paint and continues to attack the rim in 2007-08.

Also

It’s been no secret that Vincent wants to get up and down the court this season, but make sure to pay attention to the action in the paint under the new regime. Much of the scrimmage was dedicated to attacking inside on offense and denying the post on the defensive end. With a completely healthy Emeka Okafor and a bulked up Gerald Wallace patrolling the paint, points might be hard to come by when Charlotte shows up on its opponent’s schedule this season.

Maybe your line-up is spot on Stache!

However, with that line-up we may still be putting too much pressure on Ammo (even if matt starts). Hopefully he'll step up to it after having a year under his belt, but if not we could try some kind of a mix of Felton/Carrol/J-rich/Crash/Okafor and Felton/J-rich/(Dudley? Herrman? May?)/Crash/Okafor. Thoughts?
I think we have a lot of different looks we can throw at teams.

[spectre]

except the bolded part.


Felton, Carrol/Morrison, J-rich, Crash, Okafor

Unless May comes back strong ( :hysterical: ) I think the starting gig is Fabio's to lose. Neither Hammer or Ammo is known for "running".

[Mustachio]

From the bobcat's site (blogcat's training camp blog):

To no one’s surprise, Wallace has dedicated himself to improving this offseason. Although he’s still listed as 220 pounds on the Bobcats Training Camp roster, it’s evident he’s put on some more muscle in his upper body – something that can only help him as he bangs around in the paint and continues to attack the rim in 2007-08.

Also

It’s been no secret that Vincent wants to get up and down the court this season, but make sure to pay attention to the action in the paint under the new regime. Much of the scrimmage was dedicated to attacking inside on offense and denying the post on the defensive end. With a completely healthy Emeka Okafor and a bulked up Gerald Wallace patrolling the paint, points might be hard to come by when Charlotte shows up on its opponent’s schedule this season.

Maybe your line-up is spot on Stache!



HMMMMMM!!! very, very interesting. it makes sense to me... i know its not the conventional way of playing...but who cares.

you do the same thing you get the same results.

i think its our best shot of competing. We dont have the typical big dominant Center. so why not hit the other teams where it hurts. QUICKNESS, SPEED, LEAPING, and tough defense. we would run teams like Miami and Houston out of the building.

and when we wanna slow it down... we put May or Brezec and it keeps everyone fresh...

[bobcatsden]

Assuming they're healthy, the lineup will almost certainly be Felton, Richardson, Wallace, May, Okafor.

Second string: Anderson, Carroll, Hermann, Dudley, Primoz.

Edited: Spectre is right that May will have to work hard to get into the starting lineup - Hermann will have the position by default coming out of training camp, if May can't get on the court.

[Mustachio]

except the bolded part.


Felton, Carrol/Morrison, J-rich, Crash, Okafor

Unless May comes back strong ( :hysterical: ) I think the starting gig is Fabio's to lose. Neither Hammer or Ammo is known for "running".


i agree that Hammer and Ammo arent the protypical running SGs... but for the 1000th time. lets make sure The Primetime Argentine isnt an end of season flash in the pan.
he did what he did against less motivated teams at the end of the season and it came mostly off the bench. Starting material will have to be proven if you ask me. however... its not like Ammo or Hammer have proven worthy of starting either.

[Wallace15]

Assuming they're healthy, the lineup will almost certainly be Felton, Richardson, Wallace, May, Okafor.

Second string: Anderson, Carroll, Hermann, Dudley, Primoz.

Edited: Spectre is right that May will have to work hard to get into the starting lineup - Hermann will have the position by default coming out of training camp, if May can't get on the court.



That's how I see the line-up too, and just from looking at that picture I can tell that Wallace has certainly put on quite a few puonds of muscle. He's definitley more than 215. I'd say around 225 is where he's at.

[Mustachio]

I heard today on the radio that May was in New York seeing a knee specialist. and that he will be in Alabama tom. having his knee looked at by the top knee doc in America. so its not looking great for McMay. So if hes out.. we have a gaping hole at PF/C.

Im just saying that since Crash has put on so much weight and muscle... and that May is likely gonna get limited time .. that we are gonna have to have options at the PF. couple that with Ammo and Hammers contracts being pretty large for just scrap minutes... i just think its a high probality that we see the small lineup more than you think.

I also think the coaching staff is gonna give Ammo more time than you guys want him to get. He showed too much in college and too much in certain games last year to just rot away and use as trade bait.

Ray/Ammo/Jrich/Crash/Mek watch ... i feel it.

[bobcatsden]

The Alabama specialist is Dr. James Andrews - he performed surgeries on Derek Jeter, Emmitt Smith, Drew Brees, Donovan McNabb, HHH, Rey Mysterio, and John Cena.

I think you're savvy to emphasize the fact that May is traveling down to see him. It certainly doesn't seem like a good sign, no matter how you spin it.

If May is out at 4, and Wallace is shifted to PF, I think they bring Carroll in to play the SG (sliding Richardson to SF). That is a significant defensive downgrade, though.

[spectre]

i agree that Hammer and Ammo arent the protypical running SGs... but for the 1000th time. lets make sure The Primetime Argentine isnt an end of season flash in the pan.
he did what he did against less motivated teams at the end of the season and it came mostly off the bench. Starting material will have to be proven if you ask me. however... its not like Ammo or Hammer have proven worthy of starting either.


I understand being hesitant about Fabio, but going by that metric we should be even MORE hesitant about Ammo. The competition might be questionable (I'd argue that one as there was still teams trying to get into the playoffs, but anyway), but he did more than Ammo has done except for a couple of games.

Not saying it was all Ammo's fault as Bernie used him horribly...but if we're using the "what have you done for me" standard Fabio wins on that one too.

Hammer has a better chance at starting, but we suffer defensively with him guarding 2s vs. JRich. Fabio has shown he can defend.


I also think the coaching staff is gonna give Ammo more time than you guys want him to get. He showed too much in college and too much in certain games last year to just rot away and use as trade bait.

I think he's going to have to earn PT this year vs. having it handed to him because of his draft position. We sorely needed him to be our go to guy last year; we took that from him with the JRich acquisition.

Pretty much agree with what Hollinger said: He's either going to get better or we won't play him...so he won't be the negative to us like he was last year.

It's not about what I want him to get vs. not...I WANT him to succeed. I'd like nothing better than for his play to demand a starting spot. He's just going to have to earn it this year unlike last year.


If May is out at 4, and Wallace is shifted to PF, I think they bring Carroll in to play the SG (sliding Richardson to SF). That is a significant defensive downgrade, though.

Are you considering Fabio's end of season run a fluke too?

[Mustachio]

im not saying Fabio is a fluke... i love the guy. i just think he has a long way to go before we crown him starter supreme and hes already over 29 years old. I just dont think we need to put so much emphasis on him as a starter... he did most of his damage as a bench spark shooting wide open threes or slashing to the rim. and theres nothing wrong with that at all. just dont know how he will play when coaches can game plan for him and figure it out ya know...
hes got plenty of room to grow and i love him as a bench PF/SF.

and to be honest with you my first best case small lineup was this.
Ray / AmmoHammer / Richardson / Crash / Mek

but if Hermann can prove to play the PF position and be a starter id rather see this everyday with Ammo and Carroll comin off the bench to shoot daggers.
Ray / rich / crash / Fab / Mek

[ziggy]

Does anyone else notice how big Gerald Wallace looks. He looks about 20 pounds heavier and about 200 lbs stronger.

I'm 98% happy that Crash 2.0 :biggrin: added that muscle, in my opinion that should go a long way in helping to keep him healthier this season.
But theres the 2% of me that worries that he may have gone overboard adding on the muscle the way that Emeka did a few years back. Only time will tell how his body handles it.

[spectre]

On a side note...Zig, is there a way for the reply button to kick you into the full reply mode instead of in "quick reply"? I usually end up copying/pasting then putting it in full reply.

Back OT...



im not saying Fabio is a fluke... i love the guy. i just think he has a long way to go before we crown him starter supreme and hes already over 29 years old. I just dont think we need to put so much emphasis on him as a starter... he did most of his damage as a bench spark shooting wide open threes or slashing to the rim. and theres nothing wrong with that at all. just dont know how he will play when coaches can game plan for him and figure it out ya know...
hes got plenty of room to grow and i love him as a bench PF/SF.

and to be honest with you my first best case small lineup was this.
Ray / AmmoHammer / Richardson / Crash / Mek

but if Hermann can prove to play the PF position and be a starter id rather see this everyday with Ammo and Carroll comin off the bench to shoot daggers.
Ray / rich / crash / Fab / Mek



Ultimately I'd like Fabio coming off the pine too as he's not the defender I'd like to have teamed up with Mek. Thing is we don't have the guy to replace him yet...so taking that into account he IS "starter supreme" ( :biggrin: ).

Ammo and May were both disappointments last year for different reasons. Hammer is a PURE 2...and like we're saying with Fabio Hammer is best utilized off the pine throwing daggers. Fabio was the lone pleasant surprise and should at the least be the guy to beat out.

Speaking of "figuring the guy out" (I think that's a great point)...I'm thinking that because of Fabio's unorthodox style he's the most difficult player to plan against. He pulls 4s out to the perimeter else he'll kill 'em with 3s. Once they get out there he can drive right past them for his Dr. J moves.

I also think his age actually helps vs. hinders us. He's been to the big shows, been a champion. Our team lacks experience as it is, so I see that as at least a neutral thing, but probably good.

[ziggy]

On a side note...Zig, is there a way for the reply button to kick you into the full reply mode instead of in "quick reply"? I usually end up copying/pasting then putting it in full reply.

When you hit reply, do you get the window with bold button, italics button etc and all of the smilies?

[spectre]

Sorry Zig...it's when I hit "QUOTE", not reply. The reply button works great.

[dav7z]

Im going to get bashed , but why not the truth hurts. Ammo with his defence it's no way he sarts for coach V unless he improves a LOT ,That means he can't slap at the ball and let the player go by . Right now he's probely one of the 10 worst defenders in the NBA, And playing like that for coach V he's not even going to get off the pine. He's no where near the Hammer or Fabio on the defensive side of the ball. And last year was no better than either of those two on offence. With early reports of Dudley and Davidson more than making a good showing in the first practice. Its looking more and more like Morrison will not even make the rotation much less start. Hes at best IS trade bait if hes got any value at all now. Run and gun is not his style hes just too slow. He can't rebound, weak on defence,has not proved he can be a scorer in the NBA. I hope we could trade him for a decent back up some where and cut our loses on him. HE WILL NEVER START FOR COACH V..

[bobcatsden]

dav7z -

It is the truth. This is slightly off-topic, but below I'm going to list the WP48 for each Charlotte Bobcat last season. (WP48 is a productivity metric discussed in The Wages of Wins by David Berri). Note that 0.100 is average. 0.300 is superstar (maybe 8 in the league last season). Adam Morrison was the worst player with 2000 minutes in the league last season - by a lot.

Emeka Okafur: .299
Gerald Wallace: .247
Sean May: .187
Matt Carroll: .114
Derek Anderson: .110
Walter Hermann: .099
Brevin Knight: .095
Raymond Felton: .054
Jake Voskuhl: .013
Jeff McInnis: -.044
Primoz Brezec: -.108
Adam Morrison: -.175

[dvdbumpus]

Unless May is healthy, I think Crash will definitely be our starting 4. Here's the lineup as I see it:


Felton
Richardson
Herrmann/Adam (depending on who wins the battle)
Crash
Okafor

[ziggy]

Sorry Zig...it's when I hit "QUOTE", not reply. The reply button works great.
Hmmm. I never noticed that, thanks for catching it.
I'll dig through the admin tool some this weekend to see if I can figure out why it does that.

[Mustachio]

it blows my mind.

Adam Morrison is not a great standout defender.

but you people act like Hermann was DROY or something... jeez

if you watched any games last year... you would know, that Hermann looks like a flailing chicken with his head cut off on defense. Im telling you, its not as good as you guys wanna believe. Sure hes faster than Adam, but it hasnt helped him on defense/

and im ok with posting stats bobcatsden as long as you dont believe they are the end all be all of every situation. especially in basketball stats can be skewed due to a lot things... so sometimes a stat doesnt mean a dang thing. and hollinger blows! haha jk

[dnbman]

I'm 98% happy that Crash 2.0 :biggrin: added that muscle, in my opinion that should go a long way in helping to keep him healthier this season.
But theres the 2% of me that worries that he may have gone overboard adding on the muscle the way that Emeka did a few years back. Only time will tell how his body handles it.


Yeah, Kobe did the same thing a couple of years ago and it hurt his shooting stroke a little bit. It wasn't incredibly noticeable because he's so money anyway. But with a mediocre shooter like Wallace, that added muscle might have a more drastic effect.

Let's hope not!

[spectre]

Dude I watched every game on League Pass.

Fabio is not a great man defender but he's become pretty darn good at denying the pass to his man...and it gets under their skin.

No matter how badly Fabio might run around like a chicken (which I disagree with in regards to the last 20+ games of the season) he's 100 times better than Ammo on defense.

Know why? He actually tries.

There is no comparison offensively...Fabio blows him out of the water. Unless Ammo gets MUCH better on both sides of the ball there's no way he's getting time over Fabio.

[dav7z]

Unless May is healthy, I think Crash will definitely be our starting 4. Here's the lineup as I see it:


Felton
Richardson
Herrmann/Adam (depending on who wins the battle)
Crash
Okafor
Crash could start at either position . We are flexably when it comes to crash . If that happens Carroll can play the 2 or 3 , I think Herrmann is better suited to play the four as most 3s will be to quick for him. Dudley should be able to hold down either the 3 or 4 in a back up role. As Davidson can play either the 4 or 5 . You can allso go big if Premoz is playing well starting Wallace at the 3. With Morrisons lack of defence i don't see him fiting any where until he can learn to give a hard foul. If he learns to do that he could play the 2 or the 3 .As far as comparing his and Fabios defence it's no comparison. Fabio moves his feet and hands and cuts off the passing lanes. Morrison does none of the that. All he did last year was slap at the ball damn hes got to take some contact. Wallace still looks quick and he looks strong as hell. He kinda looks like a all star to me.

[timang]

crash adding muscle isn't a bad thing, but having him to play PF as his position on the court is what i'm worried at. :(

does anyone in here know what exactly is our scheme this coming season? all i know is that we'll be running and gunning this season.

[bobcatsden]

and im ok with posting stats bobcatsden as long as you dont believe they are the end all be all of every situation. especially in basketball stats can be skewed due to a lot things... so sometimes a stat doesnt mean a dang thing. and hollinger blows! haha jk


Mustachio - you're absolutely right about statistics painting an incomplete picture. Still, when an assortment of statistical metrics, such WP48 (which I prefer), PER (Hollinger's tool), Adjusted +/- (great posts on this at the Queen City Hoops blog), all agree that a player is among the worst in the league - it's worth taking notice.

Based on recent interviews with Morrison, it seems the mental aspect of the NBA caused him huge problems. He's noted many times that he got too down on himself for the bad games - maybe with an additional year of maturity, he can turn that around, which in turn could lift his whole game.

I'm not optimistic, but you never know.

Regarding Wallace at the 4: if Gerald Wallace is absolutely elite at SF, but only average at PF, are we getting the best return by using him at that position? It bears watching to see if he can excel at PF... if not, I think we're better off with Dudley at PF, even as a rookie, in order to regain the huge advantage of Gerald Wallace at the 3.

[Mustachio]

and im ok with posting stats bobcatsden as long as you dont believe they are the end all be all of every situation. especially in basketball stats can be skewed due to a lot things... so sometimes a stat doesnt mean a dang thing. and hollinger blows! haha jk


Mustachio - you're absolutely right about statistics painting an incomplete picture. Still, when an assortment of statistical metrics, such WP48 (which I prefer), PER (Hollinger's tool), Adjusted +/- (great posts on this at the Queen City Hoops blog), all agree that a player is among the worst in the league - it's worth taking notice.

Based on recent interviews with Morrison, it seems the mental aspect of the NBA caused him huge problems. He's noted many times that he got too down on himself for the bad games - maybe with an additional year of maturity, he can turn that around, which in turn could lift his whole game.

I'm not optimistic, but you never know.

Regarding Wallace at the 4: if Gerald Wallace is absolutely elite at SF, but only average at PF, are we getting the best return by using him at that position? It bears watching to see if he can excel at PF... if not, I think we're better off with Dudley at PF, even as a rookie, in order to regain the huge advantage of Gerald Wallace at the 3.


as far as Morrison goes... i do agree that those stats are to be looked at when they all agree and clearly Morrison has work to do. But one thing i notice about those stats is that he was pretty much forced minutes(because of his popularity and draft position) and those minutes were in really weird stretches.

im just saying its not the best situation for an already known streaky shooter with average athleticism... however this is all speculation... and none of us will really know what Ammo can do until year 3. (all though early reports from camp say things have started well with him).

Wallace was great at the 4 in my opinion...but your right hes not a prototypical PF and is a better SF. i think theres too much pressure on this season to throw Dudley into a starters role guarding some of the best players in the league. Theres no way he would even come close to holding his own against the likes of KG or Dirk...not in his first season and not when everyone he would be guarding at the 4 is a foot taller than him. just a recipe for disaster. i would love for sean may to play the 4 and keep Crash at the 3... but until he proves he can do it... we gotta think of ways around it.

[qchoops]

I try not to do this too often, but here's a link to my site: http://www.queencityhoops.com/WhatIsGeraldWallace.php. It's relevant to this discussion, because I looked at Gerald's numbers, broken down by position, and how the team fared with him there as well.
Quick recap, for those who don't want to read it all: Gerald put up better numbers as a 4, and the team fared slightly better with him there last year. But, the team was even better if he was at the 3, with May or Walter at the 4, and Emeka at the 5.

[spectre]

Crash needs freedom of movement on D to be most affective. At the 3 he has that. No doubt he'll pull time at the 4 (and that's one of our advantages that a few guys can play multiple positions) but the 3 should be his primary position.

I'm just hoping his budding outside shot doesn't take a step backwards due to the bulking up.

[Slam]

No way should Ammo ever see the court as a starter.

If McMay is out and Fabio isn't an option, I'd rather go with:

Felts
JRich
Crash
Dude
E050

Why mess around with JRich and Crash's positions when they are most effective at the 2/3?

[Mustachio]

why mess around with their positions??? cause its the offseason and im bored...but also because we have 0 reliable bodies at the PF position. we will have to look at our versatile players and move them around so we can have the best possible team out there.

and im excited about Dudley too guys... but come the heck on! The Dude will get minutes... but how can he possibly play PF in the NBA in his first season when hes barely of size to play SF.
He would get absolutely eaten alive defensively. Hes about as atheletic as Ammo and equally as slow. NO WAY would i ever have The Dude playing PF in the NBA. Hes KG's lunch in that situation.!

mark my words... The Dude will not start. even if May is done for the season.

[Mustachio]

Crash needs freedom of movement on D to be most affective. At the 3 he has that. No doubt he'll pull time at the 4 (and that's one of our advantages that a few guys can play multiple positions) but the 3 should be his primary position.

I'm just hoping his budding outside shot doesn't take a step backwards due to the bulking up.


i agree that he gets his most outstanding blocks from the 3 as he has room to move and leap. But Brett just showed that he can more than handle himself at the 4. Hes faster and more atheletic than any PF in the league. now that hes bulked up it could be an even better situation.

If he produces more at the 4... i dont understand the opposition of him occasionaly playing there. Rashard Lewis (barely taller than crash, and maybe lighter) plays the PF position with about half as much athleticism ... I truly think that Vinny has Crash primed for some 4 action this year

[spectre]

Think you missed this part:


But, the team was even better if he was at the 3, with May or Walter at the 4, and Emeka at the 5.

I think he'll see a lot of time at the 4, esp. if May stays true to form. Not a thing wrong with that and for the most part he does really well.


If he produces more at the 4... i dont understand the opposition of him occasionaly playing there.

We agree on that...I just don't agree with making the PF spot "his".