Can the Bobcats endure in North Carolina?

[TheBeagle]

This post is written as a companion piece to John Delong's disheartening article from Saturday's Winston-Salem Journal sports section, lugubriously titled "R.I.P.: NBA." Before I comment further, take a minute to read the article, then meet me back here......

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173353271775&path=!sports&s=1037645509200


The most impressive thing about this article is John's genuine despondency about the state of the game he loves in the region that he loves; I've emailed him about this article, asking him if this is the most difficult piece he's had to write, as I'm thinking that if it isn't, it's definitely up there. I believe a lot of the pain that he writes from comes from the apparently horrific turnout at the LJVM by any semblence of Bobcats fans, but then again, he was also at the Nets preseason game at the Arena, which had a slightly higher attendance, though an equally uninspired bunch.

While some of you may be upset about his brief '05 draft assessment, I think the general conclusion he arrives at is incredibly thought-provoking, as I found myself thinking it over throughout the day: Is the NBA in North Carolina (Charlotte specifically) chiseled on a tombstone?

My opinion is that the NBA has become a niche sport across the country as a whole, and may never attain the heights it did during the Bird-Magic-MJ era. This is due to various factors, which I don't need to expound on here, but the point is that it is going to be very difficult to "convert" those who are outside the "niche" into fans, much less the average person to come to attend games on a semi-regular basis. In Charlotte, which is as fickle a sports city as I know of, I don't know what it could take to create "fans" for the Bobcats, and that is what is really disheartening. I'm worried that the North Carolina NBA fan is just a step above the North Carolina NHL fan; I mean, it was pretty cool that the Hurricanes won the Stanley Cup a couple years back, and they're good again this year, but really, I don't care all that much how they do. I mean, they won the CHAMPIONSHIP of their sport, and they probably attracted 2 or 3 thousand new fans at the absolute most, so what hope do the Bobcats have (an admittedly niche sport a la the NHL) to create "fans" and build a solid future here? They are at best 2 years away from contending for Eastern conference supremacy, but by that time, will anyone care all that much? Will there be anymore of an enthusiastic response than mine about the Hurricanes winning the Stanley Cup? At this point, I just don't know.

John wrote this article out of the noticably palpable Bobcats apathy that filled the LJVM's thousands of empty seats, so take that into account; his ultimate proclomation of NBA death in North Carolina was the result of the frustration and disappointment of, as he states, the previous franchise, the current franchise's management debacles, and the lackluster response to the Bobcats across the state thus far. That said, if viewed subjectively, take off those orange and blue colored glasses and see how things are, I'd have to say he's closer to being right than wrong. And like John, it really pains me to think that.

Nontheless, I'm not planning on composing a Bobcats requiem. I'm going to be there Friday night in the hopes that this is the beginning of a successful Bobcats team. I think that's really all any of us can do; we can't coerce people into liking the Bobcats or going to games (though I've done pretty good with friends and family). We can support the guys that take the court, we can yell, make noise, stand up and clap, even if the majority of the people around us are sitting on their asses giving "golf claps"; we can just be the trueblood fans that we are.

[davcbow]

I still think that in order for the Cats to pick up fans they need to broadcast more games on regular TV. Not just pay per view or some package thats 3 or 4 payments of $40 bucks. The Hornets had commersials, they had radio coverage almost every game, they even showed alot of the away games on regular TV. To the average person in NC the NBA appears to be about nothing but money. Now how the heck are they going to get the average person to come to a game or do the pay per view stuff if they have never seen a Bobcats game? Thats the stuff Shinn did right in the beginning, but like the article stated greed took over and that ruined it. I wouldnt of known about last nights game in WS if I wasnt already a fan. I have talked to friends and family and most of them dont even know it was basketball season already let alone there was a game being played in WS. ADVERTISE this team people or it will fold....Im no genious but I am smart enough to know how to drum up business. Greed is ruining the world and everything in it, sports included.... :mad:

[Edrow]

That was definitely a good read. Although I don't agree with the 05 Draft (Should coulda woulda, the past is over, you can't change it so why dwell on it?), the rest of the article is really insightful.

I've said it before on this board, and I'll say it again, this team needs to be marketed better. It seems as if they are trying though, with the newspaper ads, caravan tours, and what not, so I dunno, that's at least a start to their new marketing campaign. Who knows, I guess at the end of the year we'll find out if it got better?

-Edrow

[spectre]

2007 Carolina Hurricanes Regular Season Attendance (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=nhl/teams/127/attendance.aspx?team=127)

Check out those attendence numbers for the Canes since they won the cup...and remember that last year they sucked, didn't even make the playoffs.

Winning my friend...does it almost every time.

Of course there aren't direct parallels between the two. Hockey had to win over new fans that were just disinterested; most of us didn't know the rules, didn't care for skating...and for sports nuts like me there just wasn't enough time in the year for a new sport.

We made some noise back in 03 as the underdog (and everyone loves an underdog), even making the powerhouse Detroit sweat a little by winning the first game in the finals at their place. That got a lot of us interested; how can you ignore a team like that who's right in your back yard? The '05 season sealed it; the team was awesome and we go on to win the finals. We had the LOUDEST arena in hockey that year...Redneck Hockey was King!!!

Now almost everyone around here knows the rules to hockey.

Of course there are major differences between the two...mainly this wasn't the 2nd time around and they have no other professional sport to contend with. They also have the unique ability to pull fans from the different college camps, where they can come together and pull for the same team, but I still think the main ingredient to pull the fans boils down to WINNING.

I like Delong, but he does let his emotions get into his work somewhat. Five thousand is pathetic for WS, esp. with their hometown boy doing his thing. However...in Greensboro they had around 15 thousand in attendance for a preseason game. Chapel Hill always had decent numbers too, so I think "RIP" is going a little far.

And the "cheap" shot is totally that...a cheap shot. As Delong well knows we were restricted in our cap for the first 2 years, then we go straight to the cap limit at the beginning of year 4. They've definitely made mistakes, but geesh...what new business group does NOT make mistakes?

So far as the '05 draft...what was Delong's take then? I honestly don't remember, but the majority wanted to hang onto both picks. Like I said in the Bonnell piece...quite easy to beat on it now.

IMO he's wrong. Winning will revive the corpse. I think we generate a little noise this year, add a big next summer then we make some more. Fans won't ignore it.

[Keetch]

Okay many points here...and hiya Beagle...

John Delong is far and away my favorite sports writer in our region. He's just an excellent reporter and commentator. As most or you know, he was the WS Journals beat writer for the Hornets and still works for the Journal, but covers all sports now, including the Bobcats. I looked forward to everything he wrote during the Hornets time whether positive or negative, and after while there was plenty of negative; but never anything like this. I've been passively hoping he would jump on the Bobcats beat, but didn't think there was any energy that way from the paper, and probably from John. But the Cats really need a decent reporter on their beat, as there are none at the moment. It pains me to see Bonnell's work copied by the main stream media.

Near the end of the Hornets run and the height of my frustration I emailed John Delong and he replied very graciously, in fact hinted to me that the NBA wouldn't be out of Charlotte long, that he felt a new team would be back soon enough. He was completely right. I wrote to him about how the death knell of any sports team is to kill your fans hope that the team can be a champion. I felt the Hornets had done that completely, well before they announced they were leaving.

Now this article. I hope he retracts it. Its grossly premature to write off the Bobcats. Have you seen the crowds at other preseason games around the country? Its all the same, and has been this way for a long time. As he says, only diehard fans track the preseason, and that's ok. The NBA preseason isn't spring baseball for retirees in Florida and Arizona, few people care.

Professional basketball is any expensive game to see live, and most people know it.

I spent a lot of money on Bobcats season tickets. I live in Winston-Salem. I didn't even consider going to the game here. Why? Because it's preseason; its the last preseason game, that's why and money don't grow on trees. I've spent enough. If I spend anymore it will be on playoff tickets. That plus I knew the game was about Chris Paul, not the Bobcats, and thats okay; Chris Paul is from Lewisville (just outside of WS), starred in HS here, starred at Wake Forest and comes back every summer to lead very worthwhile and very VISIBLE charity efforts, bringing "buddies" LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Dwight Howard along with him. It's a big deal here. Everyone knows who Chris Paul is. Knowing the lovefest was on, kept me away.

So don't write off the Bobcats because of that game. Move on.

Beagle, I like your comment about the NBA being a niche sport. For sure, for sure. I see that when I look to share tickets with my clients. I know that many of them could care less. But I'm also seeing a growing interest amongst them. The NBA may be niche, but its also the place where most of your college bball heroes end up. EVERYONE knows the NBA and its elite players, whether they follow them closely or not. Just like everyone knows Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (now that's a niche sport if there ever was one).

The NBA is fine. And it has a future in NC so long as the team continues to do good things on the court and off.

Haven't the Bobcats sold out all of their lower level season tickets? That's what I've been told. We'll see how this year goes.

[rallydurham]

The Bobcats have made too many errors to count.

1) Not landing a star in 4 seasons or building a good team.

2) Marketing to black people instead of white people.

3) Television debacle

[bizzlecatz]

The Bobcats have made too many errors to count.

1) Not landing a star in 4 seasons or building a good team.

2) Marketing to black people instead of white people.

3) Television debacle




Please tell me how they were marketing to black people. Enlighting me please.

[dnbman]

Television... unquestionably.


But your other two are pretty ridiculous.

There's only been a handful of true stars on the market. Most of them resigned with their own teams. The others took overpriced contracts with other teams. As for the draft, there's only been a couple of "stars" that were drafted since the Bobcats inception: Paul, Williams, Howard, and maybe Durant. You can't blame the organization for not getting the ping-pong balls to get those players, all of whom were drafted ahead of us. You could criticize them for not trading up, but they can't force a team to trade down. Utah was able to at a pretty steep price. If he doesn't pan out, they look like idiots. If May is healthy, we clearly would be better of with the picks we made.

What we have done is get some great players that have been overly scrutinized because everybody's looking for a messiah to save the franchise rather than a good baller, complete with flaws, that fits into our system. Morrison was the only true questionable acquisition, and nobody in the draft stood out as a clear option at our pick. And Morrison was actually looking pretty good until he got injured.

As for the second one, hip-hop culture (which I assume you mean for marketing to "blacks") is ubiquitous in American sports entertainment. You can go to hockey games and hear the same music. The mascot is meant to appeal to kids, not 30+ year old adults. Other than that, I'm not sure what you mean, especially since they've clearly marketed Adam and Matt (and to a lesser extent Hermann) on the website and advertisement montages. I just don't think you have a point at all there.

[rallydurham]

Everyone who goes to games comments on how the atmosphere is too black in the arena. There is no doubt about it the Bobcats have been too urban to appeal to the demographic that can afford to buy tickets.

Also, naming the team the Bobcats instead of the Flight was an enormous mistake. Bobcats is a stupid name and they picked hideous colors that even black fans have trouble purchasing their merchandise.

When you put a team in a snooty market like Charlotte, you need to have a more preppy appeal. Atlanta tries to market as a black team in the blackest city in America and looked how bad the Hawks have failed. It's just bad business.

[bizzlecatz]

The problem with the Bobcats is the Media,they have the power to make or break you, and MJ of all people should know that.

Who the hell would want to go to a Bobcats game if you pick up a newspaper and turn to the sports section and this is the only crap you can read. Corporate America isn't. They're probably the only people to read newspapers nowadays anyway.

Create some excitment around the team and the fans will come flocking in, and they will sell more newspapers in the process. :)

[x2pacalypse]

Everyone who goes to games comments on how the atmosphere is too black in the arena. There is no doubt about it the Bobcats have been too urban to appeal to the demographic that can afford to buy tickets.

Also, naming the team the Bobcats instead of the Flight was an enormous mistake. Bobcats is a stupid name and they picked hideous colors that even black fans have trouble purchasing their merchandise.

When you put a team in a snooty market like Charlotte, you need to have a more preppy appeal. Atlanta tries to market as a black team in the blackest city in America and looked how bad the Hawks have failed. It's just bad business.


those are just sociological factors....if you have 10$ tickets, then people on the lower income scale are going to attend, it just happens that in this case, most of them are black

however, if you made the tickets 50$ for nosebleeds, then you wouldn't have any attendance at all...partly because the price is outrageous, and the fact that i find, as a caucasian, that whites have no interest in basketball at all, and tend to be bandwagon fans more than other races

IMHO....at least those attending the games are loyal enough to come back

[dnbman]

Everyone who goes to games comments on how the atmosphere is too black in the arena. There is no doubt about it the Bobcats have been too urban to appeal to the demographic that can afford to buy tickets.

What do they do differently from any other professional sport? What is the "too black" atmosphere you are talking about?


Also, naming the team the Bobcats instead of the Flight was an enormous mistake. Bobcats is a stupid name and they picked hideous colors that even black fans have trouble purchasing their merchandise.

What is so bad about Bobcats? The Flight might be slightly cooler, but both are pretty good mascot names. I don't think either are make or break names for the organization.


When you put a team in a snooty market like Charlotte, you need to have a more preppy appeal. Atlanta tries to market as a black team in the blackest city in America and looked how bad the Hawks have failed. It's just bad business.


What? The only reason the Hawks have failed is by fielding a poor team. Too put into perspective, the Anaheim Ducks is probably the worst name/mascot in the sport. However, they put together a great group of players and won the Stanley Cup. End of discussion.

One thing I hate about being a Bobcat fan is how concerned all the fans are about the business side of things. I can understand the lack of broadcast, as they directly affects their ability to see the team. However, all of the other stuff should be secondary so long as they're trying to put a strong team together, which I believe they are attempting despite misfires.

[rallydurham]

Well, i really don't care about Bob Johnson's bottomline but it does obviously affect how our team is put together.

Obviously spending carelessly (Knicks, cough) doesn't help but it certainly helps to have an owner like Mark Cuban whose spending helped make Dallas a contender from a perrenial doormat.

Look at Phoenix and I think most would agree they'd have a championship by now if their thriftiness hadn't led to them trading away top talent like Luol Deng for pennies on the dollar.

[Jonathanmartin7]

Good read. Winning will change everything.

[davcbow]

Everyone who goes to games comments on how the atmosphere is too black in the arena. There is no doubt about it the Bobcats have been too urban to appeal to the demographic that can afford to buy tickets.

Im a white guy, Ive been to the Bobcats games and they dont seem too black to me, I enjoy the games, the mascott, the cheer leaders, the other fans white or black. Why is this a racial issue?


Also, naming the team the Bobcats instead of the Flight was an enormous mistake. Bobcats is a stupid name and they picked hideous colors that even black fans have trouble purchasing their merchandise.

The name is the "Bobcats" get over it.....


When you put a team in a snooty market like Charlotte, you need to have a more preppy appeal. Atlanta tries to market as a black team in the blackest city in America and looked how bad the Hawks have failed. It's just bad business.


I think the team needs fans; preppy or not, rich or not, Its not a racial or a class issue.
Its a marketing issue and they need to do some of the things Shin did in the beginning.... :g:

[Brad]

I worked for Media General for a year and a half, one of the years in Winston-Salem at the Journal, the other 6 months with the Independent Tribune in Concord/Kannapolis.

With the newspaper quickly dying, the sports department is one of the places that are hit the hardest. Circulation and advertising are down tremendously throughout the industry, and the effort for most papers has not been put into the online entity that there should be.

That results in the editors having to make decisions, like letting AP cover things that they view as "not as important" as local sports and the ACC. The NBA falls into that pit. They, particularly the Journal, don't care about the Bobcats at all. The Tribune is just way underfunded in that area. They have 2 sportswriters whose beats are high school sports, the Intimidators and the 3 NASCAR races. The other papers in the MG Family have similar priorities.

JD is one of the best at the Journal. There are a lot of people within the company that want to do more... but it's not their call to make.

It's not just MG, though, it's just about everyone. Win they start winning, they'll send reporters.

We've talked about the problems for years -- lack of marketable stars, small market, poor distribution of the games on television, poor marketing. A lot of those things are being addressed. Many heads have rolled in the last two years, resulting in a near 100% turnover of every front office position since the team's inception. They are trying, and I believe making progress...

[Grandmama]

There are a few things that haven't been ststed here but may have been stated other places when speaking about the NBA in this market.

1) Remember in 88 when the Hornets came in NBA was exponetially stronger as a league in than in 04. Magic and Larry were in their prime and had about 4 more good years a piece, and Jordon, the biggest athelete NC has ever had was taking the NBA by storm. The NBA may never have been stronger than it was at that point.

Now the NFL has absolute supremecy over the US sports landscape no doubt, and the league is much weaker than it was. It is also a different game now then as well.

2) They were the only game in town from 88-96, from 96 (Panthers) on the Hornets popularity declined a lot even when though in terms of wins and losses those were probably the strongest teams especially those team right before they left. (a lot of the that had to do with the previous regime as well.

3) As we have spoken ad nauseum on this board the marketing has been piss poor, especially for someone like Bob with his entertainment and media background.

4) Winning is the biggest thing, if they win people will come, no one showed up during the 1-15 panthers season, if they become a playoff team the charlotteans will come around. It is the rare team that sells out when they have a sub-par team, the Knicks, Boston etc. and those are teams with long histories and larger populations to draw from.

As stated by everyone else, winning cures everyone.

If Carr keep starting for the Panthers, and they keep blowing, maybe people will start going to Bobcats games instead.

[qchoops]

The city was used to a winner when the Hornets left - they were making the playoffs consistently, so it has been difficult for the fans to come back and support a very poor team. A friend of mine was in Dallas when the Mavericks were awful and talked about how it was so easy to get a ticket, but then moved back now that they are good, and you can barely find a seat. It's about winning - no more, no less (unless George Shinn is involved).

The television "issues" have been another factor - it is tough to develop a relationship with the team if you can never see their games. It can only get better on this front from the way it started. I'm holding out hope that the team will continue to win back the region to the NBA.

[TheBeagle]

Y'all's optimism about winning bringing back old fans and bringing in new fans has allayed some of my pessimism. I'm still on the fence about it, but I think back to the '01 Hornets who came out of nowhere as a 6th seed and spanked the Heat, and coming within one win against the Bucks of the Eastern finals; this turned out to be the pentultimate year for the Hornets in Charlotte, disgust for Shinn and Woolridge were at their peak, yet the Hive was alive like the early days for each home game in those playoffs: the headband craze swept Charlotte. If that team, with the black cloud of the Shinn/Woolridge beast demanding a new arena or moving the team, captured the city's (and a sizeable portion of the state's) hearts, then I'm thinking it should happen here too.

To comment on posts that have been made, I got a fairly lengthy email from John today that gives some context to his article, and, consequently, this thread:

1. He would love nothing more than to be the beatwriter for the Bobcats, but as Brad, indicated, the Journal doesn't have the money or the manpower to give John this assignment, as he is forced to cover the Panthers, NC State, etc., as well. To paraphrase, he says the greatest job of his life was being the Hornets beatwriter; there is nothing like being an NBA beatwriter, and that the NBA will always be a part of him.

2. He indicated this article was written on a deadline, and was not given the amount of space he would have preferred so as to further explain himself. He said it was easier from an editorial standpoint to mention the '05 draft as a reason for the death of the NBA in NC, though he admits it was not intended to be an indictment. Likewise, the cap maneuverability issues he discusses. He tells me there are bigger, behind-the-scenes issues going on that leads him to his conclusion, but for journalistic practices, he just can't write that in a newspaper, as opposed to the two items he does discuss.

3. I'll just quote him on this one, as it pretty much is an informal epilogue to the article

"...i hope i have a track record of writing what i believe to be true at the moment, and i don't have a problem admitting i'm wrong, so if the bobcats go to the playoffs this year and generate excitement and succceed, i'll be there writing 'this is amazing and it's a real tribute to the bobcats.' i'll have no problem writing that at all. and remember, i hope it does happen. i'm not sour, i'm not bitter. why would i be bitter? the most fun i had friday night was talking to kenny gattison for 15 minutes, and catching up with him, and seeing other folks like that. some fans -- not you -- read so many crazy things into my motives."

Overall, I'm feeling better after having read your replies, as well as John's email, about the possibility of resuscitating the NBA in NC. I'd hate to see him go from here, but I'd love to see John take over for Bonnell at the Observer; it would be a win-win: John could be the Bobcats beatwriter, which is what he wants, and we could be blessed with an actual NBA enthusiast giving us meaningful, insightful articles and gameday sections. How novel that would be!

[TheBeagle]

2007 Carolina Hurricanes Regular Season Attendance (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=nhl/teams/127/attendance.aspx?team=127)

Check out those attendence numbers for the Canes since they won the cup...and remember that last year they sucked, didn't even make the playoffs.

Winning my friend...does it almost every time.

Of course there aren't direct parallels between the two. Hockey had to win over new fans that were just disinterested; most of us didn't know the rules, didn't care for skating...and for sports nuts like me there just wasn't enough time in the year for a new sport.

We made some noise back in 03 as the underdog (and everyone loves an underdog), even making the powerhouse Detroit sweat a little by winning the first game in the finals at their place. That got a lot of us interested; how can you ignore a team like that who's right in your back yard? The '05 season sealed it; the team was awesome and we go on to win the finals. We had the LOUDEST arena in hockey that year...Redneck Hockey was King!!!

Now almost everyone around here knows the rules to hockey.

Of course there are major differences between the two...mainly this wasn't the 2nd time around and they have no other professional sport to contend with. They also have the unique ability to pull fans from the different college camps, where they can come together and pull for the same team, but I still think the main ingredient to pull the fans boils down to WINNING.

Spectre, I agree that comparing the Canes and the Cats isn't the best modus operandi, but the point I was trying to illustrate was that the enthusiasm for the Canes is predominatly (if not entirely) located in Raleigh. I know attendence for the games is great, and the fans that show are intelligent, and get revved up for the games, but outside of Raleigh, except for the championship season, they remain irrelevant to the state. They should actually be called the Raleigh Hurricanes, and there actually wouldn't be anything wrong with that, IMO. If the Bobcats can attain in Charlotte anything like what the Canes have done in Raleigh, that would be great, but being that the fanbase in Charlotte is more fickle than in Raleigh (which, as you mention, only has, and has only had this one pro team to galvanize around), the Bobcats ultimate success is drawing in fans from around the state, specifically from the Piedmont.

I agree though ,ultimate success depends on winning first, but with a healthy dose of media/TV coverage to boot.

[Edrow]

Boy the ole race card sure fires everybody up doesn't it? Wohoo. Just remember, we all came from the same skipper upstairs, and we are all Americans (Except for the dude in Singapore =) hooray Orchard Towers!). Most importantly, we are all Bobcats fans so let's not start throwing haternades at each other.

I think rally was referring to (I apologize if I'm wrong) the crazy trolls that bombard the Observer saying stuff like "Blackcats" and all that other immature stuff, which could easily lead one to believe that lots of people actually do feel that way, even though I'm sure those are just a few bad apples.

As for the name, in my opinion, lots of people took it as the owner naming the team after himself and not the flight, which would have incorporated the whole area. Personally I think the name is perfect b/c it fits in with the Panthers.

As for Bobcats fans being too concerned with business, well, this is Charlotte. They don't call our city the second largest financial city in the country for nothing. This is a white collar town with lots of money, so how can we not think about business. It's in the air! Money baby Money!

Most importantly though, I REALLY like the point brought up about how the NBA is SO much different from back in the day when the Hornets played. I firmly believe that too. If we had that stupid "like a poney, come on, like a poney!" song played in The Cable Box (Time Warner Arena) I'd probably be first in line to jump.

Have a good one guys, and Happy Halloween!

-Edrow

P.S- I also love the winning points that you guys are making, boy I remember those days of the Hurricanes at Greensboro coliseum, they had to tarp up the ENTIRE top floor b/c attendance was so bad!

[ohara831]

I agree with all who say "winning is the cure." That is the primary answer to the attendance issue. Secondly, ownership has to be willing to spend the money on high caliber players. We did with J-Rich, Crash and Carroll. We need to solidify Oak back, and then we need one more major threat. Winning will be the cure.
Why is winning the answer? Because the emotional key to the problem is our history. What Shinn did to the Carolinas ripped out the heart of the NBA fans here. How can the average fan be expected to pour out his/her heart and soul for a team, become emotionally and economically invested in them, if we are afraid of them pulling out and leaving the way Shinn did. Until the Bobcats prove to the people of the Carolinas that they are here with us for the long haul and will spend $ to be winners, the fans will be a little "skittish" to say the least. Just my 2 cents.

[Dunk]

The NBA itself is weak and it hasn't been able to capitalize on a lot of likeable stars like Bird, Magic, and MJ in the old days. When your top guy cheated on his wife and paid off a chick he raped, well, not good times... That's one of the reasons it's important to keep Okafor. He's a good role model along with several other members of the team.

For the Bobcats, they need to fix, in order:

- Winning
- TV Coverage
- Marketing (families, bankers)

I talked more about the marketing in another thread and in more detail. So, see that if you want.

[Keetch]

"...there are bigger, behind-the-scenes issues going on..."

oh crap not again....man I hope not, but Delong always seems to know whats "going on." crap crap crap....

[123together]

i don't see why they won't endure here, sure they won't lead the league in attendance ever again like the hornets did, but its just stupid to not take advantage of the arena downtown, without the team they are probably still making money off it from concerts, the checkers, heck even HS graduations (south meck '06). and there aren't really any cities that they could move to anyway

[TheBeagle]

"...there are bigger, behind-the-scenes issues going on..."

oh crap not again....man I hope not, but Delong always seems to know whats "going on." crap crap crap....
Yeah, Keetch, I'm going to see if he's willing to spill a little bit about this, however vague he has to be. Still, the overall tone of his email was that whatever these ominous issues are, they can still be overcome by the on-the-court success of the Cats. I hate to speculate, but I'm thinking it's realted to Bob Johnson in some way and his dedication to the Bobcats; the guy is, after all, a businessman and wants to make money, not lose it, as he did with that flop of a movie, "Who's Your Caddy," he came out with this summer that lost him millions of dollars.

[Bradleiu]

Excellent read.

Living in Aus in Melbourne its hard to comprehend how an NBA franchise is struggling to draw spectators. I thought basketball was one of the top 3 spectator sports in the state. As for the paper not being able to afford to hire such a writer I totally cant understand that, like has been mentioned Charlotte is one of the wealthiest cities and its major paper cant afford to hire a beat writer?I probably read that wrong.In Melbourne basketball is in a pitiful state its probably the 6th or 7th most watched sport, I bring up Melbourne because I beleive that it and Charlotte have similar demographics-Its part of the reason why I follow the Cats, I just cant understand is it that North Carlolinians just arnt as crazy for sport as Melbournians?

Anyway good read guys its a hell of alot better than the drivel I get at HH.Keep it up

[Slam]

Charlotte is more like Adelaide.

[Grandmama]

Guys I don't really think Charlotte has to worry about the NBA leaving (anytime soon). I actually wrote a paper on the new arena deal for school and had a chance to talk to the city attorney and city council members that brokered the deal.

Since the arena deal was negotiated directly between the NBA and the City and the City basically funded the arena without a owner, it is my understanding that there are all sorts of provisions to penalize an owner who pulls out prior to the 25 year lease being up. I think the liqudated damages for Bob moving the team prior to the first 15 years is something like 200 million he has to pay to the city.It decreases exponentially after that but even by year twenty it is in the tens of millions of dollars range (cash I believe). Now thats not sying Bob can't sell the team, but whoever the owner is would have to pay the City a significant penalty to leave.

Additionally that is not sayin the NBA, doesn't have some sort of deal to soften the blow with Bob, but if they leave early someone is going to have to put up some real cash.

Realistically there isn't another market to move into that would be profitable. Maybe Vegas, but there are other teams (cough Hornets) that are probably in more dire situation than the Bobcats.

Also Bob tons it from all the other events, the city gets 12 days of revenue from the Arena (typicall ACC, CIAA, NCAA early rounds), Bob gets pretty much the lion's share of revenue from any other time the Arena is used, hince why he made local high schools pay for graduation.

[Edrow]

That is a great point. I think the city really set up the deal so that if anybody tried to backstab the area again, they would have to pay big time.

Besides, I'm not worried that this team is going anywhere. It may change owners somewhere down the line if Mr. Johnson decides that he doesn't want the team, but somebody will pick it up and keep it here, or atleast try.That's my two cents though. Personally I think Bob Johnson is committed to the team and organization, and will see through it that it works out.

-Edrow

[davcbow]

I hope you are right Edrow....
Go Bobcats!!!

[Dunk]

Being able to buy some merchandise at local stores would be good. Checked out Dick's today and they finally had a couple of Okafor t-shirts and a handful of grey and white Bobcats t's and a couple of caps.

Pretty much all the college teams have at least 10X more stuff though.

Oh, you can get May replicas for $9. :P

[Bradleiu]

Charlotte is more like Adelaide.


that would explain alot.

Dunk you might have to but me one of those May replicas and send it over illd give you like 30. You cant buy jerseys here for under $60 and it dosnt help when your computer illeterate

[chabber]

Is it wierd that the first thing I thought of when you guys were talking about Adelaide was that chick from Guys and Dolls?

[walkerl]

The Bobcats will fail in Charlotte, because this area has the worst fanbase of any sports city. They expect a winner all the time. They've turned their backs on the Panthers and they refuse to accept the Bobcats, some because the owner is black, some because of the hornets fiasco, some because they hate the NBA now. Personally, I hate the fans of this area, most have zero loyalty....oh yeah and before I forget they also need to stop listening to the media. Alot of people who berated the team have never even watched them play, but they are so quick to call them cheap, poorly managed, etc.. and they just say this because they heard some talking head (or ass) say this....I'm done ranting now!!!

[chabber]

Now that I can agree with. I think Charlotte fans are just as bad as the ones in Atlanta or Miami. Even Duke and UNC games don't sell out here unless it's ACC tournament time. You might get 8,000 people in the stands and that's for consistent winners in college basketball the only basketball that most people around here claim they love and hold so dear as being true to the game. ::)

[davcbow]

Its just going to take better advertising along with a winning record to get the fans to come back. Alot of people I talk to never see or hear anything about the Cats on TV; specially on satillite, no commersials, no broadcast games on free TV, its hardly ever on the radio stations around here which is near the NC Zoo, no cable in alot of areas. Other people still have their noses bent out of shape over Shin, so do more coverage, advertising and WIN and they will come "cough"(back).... :g:

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Quote
(However, all of the other stuff should be secondary so long as they're trying to put a strong team together, which I believe they are attempting despite misfires)

How can you consider what the Bobcats have done up to this point as misfires? The reality is this is a young team and no expansion team makes the playoffs after just three seasons. This team won more in their third season then any expansion team in the modern expansion era.

Can we consider Adam Morrison a bust? Maybe, but the reality is he was a rookie and a lot of rookies struggle. If he does turn out to be nothing more than a glorified sixth man it will be a slight misfire but not some organization shattering mistake.

Now as to the fan support. This thing that people say that if the team wins people will support them sounds good but the reality is the the real 6th man is the fans and their support and they contribute to victories. It has to be hard for this team to play games knowing that this region will only support this EXPANSION TEAM if they somehow win enough to make the playoffs. Should the organization put up with that until three quarters of the season is up and it looks like we are going to make the playoffs? How many wins will the people expect for them to support the team? How motivated will this team be to play inspired ball at home or for that matter on the road when they know Carolinians aren't behind them for the most part?

People get remarried all the time after being stepped on by an ex so shouldn't the people of Carolina give this thing a chance? This after all is the last chance this region will have at a successful marriage with the NBA. Blow this and ten years from now the people of Carolina will have nobody to blame but themselves. The one thing George Shinn did do was make Charlotte a place the NBA would expand into and even after greedy Shinn left, the door was still open because of him.

When this team acquired J-Rich and kept GWall it should have been reason enough to believe this team is trying to win and that should be motivation enough for people to support their home team.

Whatever the deal, I hope the people of NC will see this as the great opportunity to get something back that was lost whether the team wins or loses. The chance to be entertained by the likes of Felton, J-Rich, Wallace and Okafor who almost always bust their butts on the court should be reason enough to go to games. I don't like when my teams lose but as long as they are committed to winning and play hard I support them.

[MattD]

theyre not leaving for a long time, by then people WILL like them

[Grandmama]

Based on the first couple of games, the crowds have not been big but they have been very enthusiastic. Maybe the base of about 10K true Cats fans is starting to solidify, from there we should be able to pick up the next 7-8K, if the team continues to improve. Better get you tickets soon.

[CaptainCrunch]

good read all I know is that I am a true cat fan and so is everyone else on the planet.

[dougcoats]

hey guys, good to be back...the bobcats have a solid fan base that will only continue only to grow as the team improves its record. bobcats arena should sell out any future playoff games, whenever that may be.

[dvdbumpus]

good read all I know is that I am a true cat fan and so is everyone else on the planet.



Damn Straight!

[King Taharqa]

Bobcat fan forever here. Screw the talking heads in the media and the other non believers. Bobcats are 1 of the best things to ever happen to this sports region.

[TheBeagle]

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173353271775&path=!sports&s=1037645509200


This is the excellent, no-holds-barred article John Delong wrote, that Keetch and I are referencing in the "Emeka..." thread, for those that are new since that time (and even if you're a vet, it's interesting to read this after the dismal season this has turned out to be!)

[dnbman]

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173353271775&path=!sports&s=1037645509200


This is the excellent, no-holds-barred article John Delong wrote, that Keetch and I are referencing in the "Emeka..." thread, for those that are new since that time (and even if you're a vet, it's interesting to read this after the dismal season this has turned out to be!)




I'm rolling with less sleep these days, so forgive me if I've already responded to this article.

I don't think the NBA is dead in this area. If you put a hardworking team that are driven to succeed out on the court, the fans will come. You'd be amazed how many fans the Pistons made several years ago because they had a guy with a face mask and another guy with a big 'fro tearing up the mighty Lakers. People who didn't really follow the NBA got behind a blue collar team that played hard. They will do the same here.

As small proof, I've taken a few different people to games this season who all became much more interested in the NBA after actually watching our guys play hard. Of course, if we continue to play without heart, we kill such opportunities to gain new fains.

Keetch alluded to possible deeper problems in the organization, things that Okafor would be aware of that the rest of us might not. I'm sure that's possible. However, I'd be willing to bet that most organizations have things going on that the critics or the players may not appreciate. When you win, nobody cares about these problems. (Hence, Kobe saying he's "an LA kind of guy") When you lose, all a sudden there are "deeper issues" because nobody wants to be the guy who split just because things were rough, especially if he (in this case, Okafor) is part of the reason why it's rough.

Clearly, we know now that the Vincent hiring was a mistake. The croneyism in Jordan's tenure is pretty undeniable. However, Jordan is a guy who craves winning. I feel 100% certain he will take his lumps as a manager and figure out what it takes to win. He's too smart of a guy and too competitive not to, especially as more and more people attack his overall legacy based on his front office decisions.

The knight in shining armor that was the Hornets is no doubt dead. Instead, we're the regular guy who is winning back the trust of a girl who was neglected, abused, and ultimately betrayed. We're also competing in an era where there is MUCH more entertainment competition.

I've said this hundreds of times, but I believe that once we get the on-court formula right, all other sins will be corrected. The fans will return, and all will rejoice. However, if they don't put a good team together that plays hard, the Bobcats better do an awfully good job of finding icecapades, rock shows, and basketball tournaments for the next 20 years.