Our 2008 Free Agents: Who goes/Who Stays?

[ALong13]

Charlotte Bobcats

Restricted: Jermareo Davidson (T), Walter Herrmann, Ryan Hollins, Emeka Okafor

Unrestricted: Derek Anderson, Primoz Brezec, Othella Harrington (T), Jeff McInnis

Limited Salary Protection: None

Here is a list of our free agents for next year, who should go, who should not, and who do you think will be brought back next and who will not?

I think all 4 restricted free agents stay in Charlotte, Davidson has done pretty good as a rookie, and I don't see him having much interest from other teams. Herrmann may have a bit of interest, but I don't see us letting him go. Hollins has improved much as well and he won't go nowhere, and he shouldn't IMO. Okafor I think a nice deal will be struck, we want him in Charlotte, and he says he wants to stay in Charlotte. I see a 6-yr deal getting done this offseason. Unrestricted free agent, Harrington and DA are gone for sure IMO. I see McInnis coming back, maybe with a 2-yr deal this time though as he hasn't done that bad at all this season. Primoz is a bit harder, he's been here since the beginning and loves it here, but not everyone loves hiim. If he wants a long term deal, I see him being gone, if he's ok with a one or two year deal, then he may stay. I don't think he starts next season though, in Charlotte, or anywhere else in the NBA, so I think he may stay to be the back-up. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sean May also be gone next year, he hasn't played much at all and won't for the rest of the season, him getting cut wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Next year I see it like this:

PG: Raymond Felton & Jeff McInnis
SG: J-Rich & Matt Carroll
SF: Gerald Wallace, Adam Morrison, Jared Dudley
PF: Emeka Okafor, Walter Herrmann, Jermareo Davidson
C: Ryan Hollins, Primoz Brezec

That would leave us three spots to feel, with those I see us going after 2 big men and a PG.

[Wallace15]

Who should be gone-McInnis, Harrington, Brezec

Who will be gone-Harrington, DA, Hermann(I wanna keep DA and Fabio but I just got a feeling they'll both be gone.)

Who should stay-Davidson, Hermann, Hollins, Okafor, and DA.

Who will stay-Davidson, Hollins, Okafor, Brezec, and McInnis.

PG:Felton, Rookie/FA, DA
SG:J-Rich, Carroll
SF:Wallace, Morrison, Dudley
PF:Okafor, Hermann, Davidson
C:Hollins, Rookie/FA

^^That's what I wanna see.


PG:Felton, McInnis, Rookie/FA
SG:J-Rich, Carroll
SF:Wallace, Morrison, Dudley
PF:Okafor, Davidson, Rookie/FA
C:Brezec, Hollins, Rookie/FA

^^What we will see.

[davcbow]

Next year I see it like this:

PG: Raymond Felton, *Rookie/FA, Jeff McInnis
SG: J-Rich, Matt Carroll
SF: Gerald Wallace, Adam Morrison, Jared Dudley
PF: Emeka Okafor, Walter Herrmann, Jermareo Davidson, *Rookie/FA
C: Ryan Hollins, Primoz Brezec, *Rookie/FA

Unless a unforseen trade occurs which would change everything.
I also notice none of us think May will be back but I bet he will and that will drop 1 of the Rookie/FA big guys... :g:

[bizzlecatz]

This is too far away for my vision, I am near sighted and can only see the road to the playoffs.

[ALong13]

It's not that I don't think May can be a good athlete and could help the team, it's just he's injuried so much, and can't stay consistent. If he comes back and has loss some fat weight and turned it into muscle, then he may get a shot, I just don't see him being able to stay healthy, so I think he'll be gone.

I find it interesting that you, (Wallace15) think they'll get rid of Herrmann. I say if they get rid of him, at least send him in a trade and get something for him...

[dnbman]

I find it interesting that you, (Wallace15) think they'll get rid of Herrmann. I say if they get rid of him, at least send him in a trade and get something for him...


Not in this case. We want to free up as much money as possible for the FA class. If we don't think he's going to work out, we should let him walk.

[spectre]

This is too far away for my vision, I am near sighted and can only see the road to the playoffs.


Very well said!

I don't think Fabio is restricted...he's a bonofide free agent after this year and can go wherever he wants.  Unless V starts giving him more time I can't imagine him staying here; he's going on 29 years old and he needs PT. Unless he really breaks out we'll probably offer him the minimum, and like Jake he can get better elsewhere.

All the rookies + Twigs will be here, the others will be gone unless they retain DA and Touche' as 3rd string player/coaches.  Personally I'd rather use the spots for potential.

[davcbow]

Yep after this season the only ones we will have under contract is:
Felts
JRich
Carroll
Wallace
Morrison
Dudley
May

And in their last year of their contracts:
Davidson
Mek

That means that McInnis, Harrington, Herrmann, Brezec and Hollins can all walk.
This is according to the Bobcat Salery thread. http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,70/topic,4689.0 ..... :g:

[ohara831]

This is too far away for my vision, I am near sighted and can only see the road to the playoffs.
__________________________________________________ _

Bizzlecatz, I love your positive thinking. But you should now have seen enough to know we are near the bottom and no where in the vicinity of a Playoff team. This will be a long, painful year.

[TheBeagle]

I'm in such a foul mood right now I probably shouldn't even be posting....but:

It wouldn't hurt me to see all of them go. Except for Mek, they're all marginal NBA players who wouldn't be in the league if not for expansion.

[dnbman]

I'm in such a foul mood right now I probably shouldn't even be posting....but:

It wouldn't hurt me to see all of them go. Except for Mek, they're all marginal NBA players who wouldn't be in the league if not for expansion.


Beagle, that's not really fair, as much as I understand your pain right now.

Wallace, Carroll, Felton, Richardson, and Dudley are all solid NBA players. You could make arguments for other guys on the team being successful in certain situations. (I still think Brezec could be a good C somewhere, hopefully here.)

The problem is Vincent hasn't figured out how to run them together, which is important because all of our guys have a significant flaw that makes them unable to simply go out and ball. We can't have Wallace continue to shoot so many shots outside. We can't simply pass to JRich out of the three point line and let him pull up every time. We can't have Felton dribbling so much. We've got to develop some inside game that takes advantage of those guys' strengths. And, we have to figure out a way to play between the three point line and the rim. That part of our offense has been non-existent.

There was one play that Chicago did last night that showed what a great offensive team does that we don't. Rather than hanging around the three point line, Hinrich cuts toward the bassline to set a screen for, I believe, Deng. Deng was already hot, so instantly, the defense collapsed on him as they were expecting him to get the ball. After Hinrich sets the screen, he cuts to the three point line. Gordon, the player with the ball then passes it to Hinrich, who has three weeks to plant his feet, get a good look, and shoot the ball. However, the play isn't just about the three point shot. The play generate so many options. If the D doesn't cover the now free Deng, he's got an open look from 8 feet. If Hinrich's man stays with him and the other D collapses on Deng, the ball handler should have a shooter or cutter on the weak side. It's a simple play that keeps the defense thinking and generates open looks.

I don't blame the lack of plays like that on our players; I blame it on the coaching. None of or wing players run any semblance of an offense. It's not as if Felton isn't running the play and then McInnis or DA or Richardson try to run it. There seems to be no plays. The only things I notice much of at all are:

* our 2 and 3s making a quick run towards the basket and then checking back to the three point line.

* Felton gives the ball to the 2, runs to space, and then they pass it back out to him.

* Felton with the pick and roll with one of our bigs

* questionable drive to the basket, with nobody else making much movement.

* questionable three point shot, with nobody else making much movement.

* rebounds and transition baskets.

We need to have plays that our get our guys closer to the basket. That Hinrich/Deng play would be perfect for Wallace and Felton, as it plays to two of their strengths: Wallace's ability to attack the rim/shoot a short jumper and Felton's outside shooting. For Richardson, we should be setting all kinds of screens, helping him attack the basket rather than relying on 3 point shooting and circus shots. If those guys are going to play together, it's going to be because they play as part of a holistic approach to offense and not a back and forth of 1-on-1 attacks. And lastly, our guys have to keep their hands up! My God it's been frustrating seeing players unprepared to receive passes. Last night, Nocioni, Deng, Wallace, and Thomas all had their hands up when a play was running, allowing them to quickly finish plays after sharp interior passes. And since they were used to the idea, they all seemed very adept at making interior passes. I was jealous last night of their ability to move the ball, and you can't convince me that Tyrus Thomas and Ben Wallace are better passers than Okafor, Brezec, Dudley, and Davidson.

Again, my point is that we need to instill in our players a dynamic set of basic principles on offense: settting screens, interior passing, etc. Once we do that, we can take advantage of the non-traditional group of folks we have. Until then, we're going to live and die by fast break points and three point shots.

[ziggy]

Excellent post DNBMan, I plan to add it to the front page. :)

[ohara831]

I'd let all the unrestricted go. Keep all the Restricted, but trade Okafor before the Season ends.

[twebb]

I think we should keep Okafor, Hollins, Herrmann, and Davidson.

I also think that at this point we need to be looking for a trade or something else for May, because I know someone who has seen the xray of his knee and they say it is in terrible shape. The shape that its in looked painful to walk on, let alone play bball. I see him more of someone who never got accustomed to the fast, NBA lifestyle, and decided too much on partying, never reaching his potential. And I dont think he will reach his potential. A trade for a pick higher might net us someone twice as good

[dnbman]

While it would be nice to trade May, we can't trade damaged goods. He'll either play again or he won't. However, we can enjoy the cap relief by not signing him.

The guys we don't need next season are pretty obvious: DA, McInnis, and Harrington. I don't think they will help us in any capacity other than some occasional veteran blue-collar minutes.

The two guys we need to either use or trade are Primo and Hermann. Both guys could be good players on an NBA team. If we're not going to use them effectively, we need to trade them to a playoff contender for late 1st round draft picks, blue collar bigs, or some combination of the two.

I think eventually Dudley and Carroll will share responsibility as our primary backups. Both guys have obvious talents that help fill our our roster.

At this point, I'd probably play Morrison next season with the intention of trading him. With Richardson, Carroll, Wallace, and Dudley, there just aren't enough minutes for him.

So, our core group would be Felton, Richardson, Wallace, Dudley, Okafor, and Carroll. If May can return, then we'd be in much better shape. If not, we need to go after a solid big FA to go with this core. Then we can decide if we want to keep Davidson and Hollins, both of which should only stick around if we sign them cheap.
We also would have to get a backup PG, which I think could probably best be handled through the draft, as there are o.k. options even in the middle of the first. It would be smart to sign one other o.k. veteran pg to be a third pg in case the need arises. (If Felton were to go down now, it would be disastrous!)

Our active roster would most likely include:

PG: Felton, rookie PG, one veteran pg/combo guard.
SG: Richardson, Carroll
SF: Wallace, Dudley
PF: FA big, Davidson, one other big
C: Okafor, Hollins

Then we'd have three others to fill out our 15. We could keep Morrison, and move one of the pgs to the 13th spot.

[ALong13]

Well I got my list of ESPN, so according to them, Herrmann is a restricted free agent...I really think McInnis will be back despite what a lot of fans want, he hasn't done terrible this year, but not a great year either, and I think we'll re-sign him so we can go ahead and focus on PF/C...

[MattD]

I dont even know... im at the point where i feel like we need to rebuild... we are trying but going in the wrong directions. I am frustrated, gerald is good, j rich is good felton is good but no one is GREAT and thats our biggest flaw. Unfortunately I dont see a great player coming unless we do horribly for the rest of the season. It's like the identity thing and the discussions last year. I think we have perfect, really really good pieces to surround a great player, but without that great player, we are not going to be a competitive team. I think we need to be more flexible with our players positions as well, emek does not have to ONLY be PF, gerald can play PF if we need him to J Rich move down to sf etc, we need to clear out our reserves too, I like Hollins, Jamareo, Duds, and Carroll, are pretty much the only players that are worth keeping on our bench.

so no more primoz, no more Walter Herrmann (sorry I loved him last year, but if we arent utilizing him, whys he here? he could be doing well somewhere else), no more mcinnis, no more othella (god please), Derek? keep him for leadership, hes a smart player I thought that if they were going to give the job to someone that unexperienced they might as well have given it to derek... whatever it wont happen

[TheBeagle]

I'm in such a foul mood right now I probably shouldn't even be posting....but:

It wouldn't hurt me to see all of them go. Except for Mek, they're all marginal NBA players who wouldn't be in the league if not for expansion.


Beagle, that's not really fair, as much as I understand your pain right now.

Wallace, Carroll, Felton, Richardson, and Dudley are all solid NBA players. You could make arguments for other guys on the team being successful in certain situations. (I still think Brezec could be a good C somewhere, hopefully here.)


DNB, I think you misunderstood me; I was referencing our 2008 FAs, not our entire team. Of that list at the beginning of the thread, Mek is the only legitimate NBA player, the others really aren't. With the players you mention, I absolutely believe they are legit NBA players. I'd go to the rack for GW and Matt; I love those guys and never ever want to see them leave.

So to clarify, I was referring only to the FAs to be in '08, not the entire team.

Also, your analysis of the offensive woes of the 'Cats is dead-on. Like I've said elsewhere, last night's game was one of the worst exhibitions of offense I've ever seen, they were just fortunate to make some shots; it was as static as it can get.

[dav7z]

Lot of good post . Herrmann has the most tradable value now . Him along with Davidson might bring up sone nice trade talk.
I don't think we find any thing decent for Premoz or Mcinnis . Hollins we might move but thats the position we need help.
Morrison or May has NO value right now as no one takes that chance on either.
Dudley looks to be useful in the next few years at a bargin price.
Im sure Carroll would bring instrest . But i only think teams would be looking to dump bad contracts only for him.
Wallace and Rich are more than likely hear for the duration as thats a lot of contract for either . Of corse Wallace would show a lot of instrest.
Keeping OK50 is a no brainer. Hes our only low post presence.

[tamburello]

I simply don't understand why everybody here are in such a bad mood. You are the same people who were predicting a 5th or 6th place in East after acquiring Richardson, even after 6-4 start. But now, we've lost 5 in a row, and everything, everybody turned upside down. We've suddenly become the worst team in the league, everybody has begun suggesting sending any player in the team in various trade proposals, even Okafor, who was called the cornerstone of the club by everyone around here. You've begun suspecting the playmaking abilities of Felton, whom we were thinking as one of the best upcoming "PG"s of the league. Haven't you ever compared Paul with Felton in numerous occasions? But now you don't regard him even as a PG.

You've already begun constructing the next year's roster, by considering potentials FA's and even draftees. Hey, are you aware that we're only 15 games into the season? There are still 4.5 months left to the 82nd game of ours. There are still 7 months to 2008 NBA draft, and end of the moratorium period of 2008 offseason.

It's easy to criticise people when things happen in an unsuccessful way. Please, be patient a little. I watched the last CHI game, I know that we've deep problems, starting with center position(Bulls doubled us in rebounds). I know Sam Vincent is making mistakes which will turn out to be inaffordable to fix. Jason Richardson is too inconsistent to be a go-to-guy for none of the teams in the league IMHO. I know I'd waive Othella today if I were GM and sign another big. But please... Don't make some serious judgements too early... Because it's still too early. This pessimistic air that I breathe in this forum makes me sick.

This is a discussion platform, of course everybody can say anything he/she wants about the team, since we have not an official say on club's decisions. I respect on everybody's opinions. But it's not so easy to arrange a trade that will dramatically change the fate of the club.

By the way... I still think we'll be in the playoffs at 8th spot after a 40-42 record, same as my suggestion before the season opening.

Sorry for that irrelevant post in the thread.

[Muttley]

Sorry for that irrelevant post in the thread.


No way tamb. That's totally relevant. This fan impatience is crazy. Rep it up.

[ohara831]

Tabburello: Your passion and desire to support this team is as strong as anyone on the Board. But I think you are underestimating the depth of our problems. Just a couple examples.
It hurts me to say, but I have watched with a "critical" eye, and I hate to say it but the ONLY person I have have seen who looks like he has NEVER taken it easy during a game is Crash. All others seem to be resigned to just playing out the game in the 2nfd half when we are well behind. That pisses me off!! Sometimes I watch if the other team gets a fast break going, and everyone just stands back and lets them go, with only Crash taking off to try and stop it or at least be in the area for a rebound should someone blow a lay up or dunk.

It is seeming to be that there is a lack of cohesiveness or ability to gel between Crash and J-Rich. They do not seem to be able to feed off of each other. They have had the Pre Season and now 15 games, and they look so mismatched it is obvious.

We have some very good pieces, but we do not have that one person who can draw the team together and say "I'll take you on my shoulders and carry you the rest of this game." I know whe thought J-Rich could do that, but he clearly cannot. He is far more limited to shooting from behind the arc when he is open. He cannot make his own shot, not hit when a man is on him. Honestly, I feel Matt Carroll is playing the 2 Guard better.

Our Defense is pretty much horrendous. We cannot use the half court trap on anyone! We get outrebounded 2-1 against the Bulls. Hell, Ben Wallace had 19 himself to our pathetic 24. How does that happen at the NBA level?

I appreciate your passion for the team. I love them and want them to win. I had hopes for them this season. But, I am very much a Realist. I have optimism, but it is grounded with Realism. The team needs a serious overhaul and massive changes so we can try and rebuild a cohesive unit.

[spectre]

Well said Tamb.

Last year we were 4-11 for the month of November.

The issue is with the coaching and the lack of a 5th player, and it amazes me that anyone wouldn't have seen this coming with a rookie coach and no one worth a damn over 27 on the team.

We're NOT trading the only defender we have in the paint, and we're NOT about to put our summer acquisition who's making over 11 million per this year on the pine. Like it or not that's what we're running with for at least this season and the next. In the real world all the new variables take time to work and fit, esp. the rookie coach part. Fans need to realize it takes time for that to happen.

[ohara831]

at least[/i] this season and the next. In the real world all the new variables take time to work and fit, esp. the rookie coach part. Fans need to realize it takes time for that to happen.
_________________________________________________

OK. See where we are by the All Star break. See where the Hawks are by the All Star break. Extrapolate out for the Season and see where those picks will be and who will be available. Dont make your mind up yet.
Regarding our $11 mil/yr summer acquisition, you do not have to insist on his starting IF you have someone better to play in his stead. Now, for this year, without any trades, he will start the full year, no doubt. But if we are picking and have someone very special you can plug in that hole, you bring your summer acquisition off the pine as a 6th man. You play the one with the talent, not the one with the higher salary. for example, if we are in a positon to get Beasley and Gordon, so not think for a minute you pass on that Indiana kid just b/c you have J-Rich. Gordon wil be very special. We screwed up passing on Roy and Gay, and we cannot keep doing so.

[spectre]

I haven't seen any of the potential lottery picks play yet, but I do know from past seasons that there is seldom a "can't miss" college player. Regardless, I agree that "IF" we're picking in the top 3-5 then BPA is the way to go...something I'm not all all resigned to yet. If it's a SG and he can beat JRich out (or PG/Felton, SF/Wallace) then great! We need assets and we need cheaper salaries. No way no how can you count on that happening though.

However, "the plan" isn't going to be derailed by 15 games into the season, nor will it after 40. These things take time. Whatever we do though, getting a starting C/PF has to be priority number 1.

[dav7z]

Tamb i totaly agree with you on your post . And we doing about as well as i expected so far . As far as a major over hall i don't think that should even be a issue .
The team needs only two things at this point mostly time to get use to each other . And we in despret need of a big most of us don't cradit Hollins much but we have not won since he's been out.
If we added just one soiid big and had time playing toghter . I think we could bypass the 42 wins in the east.
All i was saying in my last post was players who i thought had value . I didn't mean i thought we needed to trade them though we do need a big.

[spectre]

OK.  See where we are by the All Star break.  See where the Hawks are by the All Star break.  Extrapolate out for the Season and see where those picks will be and who will be available.

We were 18-33 last year at the all star break.  After we were 15-16...with 11 of those losses coming after Mek was out the 15 games due to injury.

With our team you can't base anything on the 1st half of the season as we've typically gotten better as time goes on.  Since we added a new rookie coach and Richardson I don't see why would that be any different than this year, esp. since we have less bigs now than we did then.

(Note:  I added those up off the stats, so it's possible I could be a game or two off)