Charlotte Bobcats at Toronto Raptors 12/03

[CaptainCrunch]

Charlotte Bobcats (6-9) at Toronto Raptors (9-8) 12/03
http://www.neoncentral.com/images/g6235nc_lg.jpg at http://www.beautysigns.com/toronto_raptors_full.jpg

Game time: 7:00 p.m. Air Canada Centre
http://www.e-lacrosse.com/2004/nll/t3.jpg

Probable Starting Lineups:
PG Raymond Felton 16.1 ppg v.s. Jose Calderon 9.8 ppg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/001ray.jpg v.s. http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/josecalderon.jpg
SG Jason Richardson 17.3 ppg v.s. Anthony Parker 11.2 ppg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/jasonrichardson.jpg v.s. http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/anothyparker.jpg
SF Gerald Wallace 18.4 ppg v.s. Jamario Moon 9.1 ppg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/0001gerald.jpg v.s. http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/33JamarioMoon.gif
PF Emeka Okafor 13.3 ppg v.s. Joey Graham 2.7 ppg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/001emeka.jpg v.s. http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/joeygraham.jpg
C Jared Dudley 4.7 ppg v.s. Rasho Nesterovic 4.0 ppg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/dudley.jpgv.s. http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/rashonestervovic.jpg

Charlotte Bench: Jeff McInnis, Walter Herrmann, Matt Carroll, Jermareo Davidson, Othella Harrington, Derek Anderson, and Primoz Brezec
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/0001jeff.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/0001walt.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/001carroll.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/jermareo_davidson.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/0001harrington.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/0001derek.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/0001primoz.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/2DarrickMartin.jpg

Toronto Bench: Carlos Delfino, T.J. Ford, Jason Kapono, Kris Humphries, Juan Dixon, Andrea Bargnani, and Darrick Martin
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/20CarlosDelfino.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/t.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/24JasonKapono.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/krishumprhries.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/juandixon.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/andreabargnani.jpg

Charlotte Head Coach: Sam Vincent
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/SamVincent.jpg

Toronto Head Coach: Sam Mitchell
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/sammitchell.jpg

Charlotte last 5 games:
11/21 WAS 111-114 L (OT)
11/23 @ORL 92-105 L
11/24 BOS 95-96 L
11/27 @MIA 90-110 L
12/01 @CHI 95-111 L

Toronto last 5 games:
11/24 @CLE 108-111 L
11/25 CHI 93-78 W
11/28 MEM 103-91 W
11/30 CLE 91-82 W
12/01 @WAS 97-101 L

Charlotte inactive list: Seam May, Adam Morrison, Derek Anderson, and Ryan Hollins
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/001sean.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/0001morrison.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/hollins.jpg

Toronto inactive list: Jorge Garbajosa, Chris Bosh, and Maceo Baston
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/jorgegarbajosa.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/chrisbosh.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w169/MullikinUSC/9MaceoBaston.jpg

[CaptainCrunch]

Alright man its the battle for coach Sam. Vincent v.s. Mitchell. I am taking Vincent in this highly anticipated match up of the Sam's.

[Muttley]

Any further word on how long Ryan's out for? Last I heard it was day-to-day. Hope he's back soon.

Let's go Bobcats.

[Wallace15]

With Bosh out and Bargnani a game time decision this should definitely be a win. First game with Duds in the starting line-up and I don't think he'll disappoint. I see all starters with 10+pts and there's no way we don't outrebound them.

We snap a 5 game losing streak with a 109-96 win. 8)

[WarioVsMooChicken]

DUDLEY AT C...YEEEAAGGGGH!!!!!!

[dnbman]

Jamario Moon looks like Wallace and Scottie Pippen's love child. :g:

PLEASE let us win this game.

[Dead_Real]

No Bosh = win as far as I'm concerned.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

lol16-4 :P

[Wickdakid]

WOW! Once again the game on League pass is blacked out. Hmm...2 out of ten? I have to go back to T.W. Shiet..

[davcbow]

Whats up with the team tonight. Dudley a rookie is out doing every player on our team. J-Rich is getting worse and Felton isnt doing nothing yet. Mek is doing his usual play and Wallce is cold. What do we have to do to get our players to come out and play in the first quarter???? :g:

[Dead_Real]

Wow are we terrible on the road Raps making it look easy out there.

[dnbman]

Whats up with the team tonight. Dudley a rookie is out doing every player on our team. J-Rich is getting worse and Felton isnt doing nothing yet. Mek is doing his usual play and Wallce is cold. What do we have to do to get our players to come out and play in the first quarter???? :g:


Well, for one thing, let them keep playing. You don't yank your starters after 5 minutes. They've got to play through some of that adversity.

[Dead_Real]

Fuck 3 fouls on Emeka already.

[Wallace15]

Holy hell, why are we playing so fucking bad right now ???

[davcbow]

I beginning to think its not just our players are in a severe funk, but I think the coach is in a coaching funk too.... Looks like a cluster F@#$ out there.... :g:

[CaptainCrunch]

come on cats we have looked a lot better so far in the 2nd half

[WalterHerrmannFan]

Why the hell is Vincent not playing Walter Herrmann? Derrick Anderson? Really? J Dud's at Center? Really?

I sometimes think he doesn't know how to coach.

[davcbow]

I really dont think Coach likes Herrmann. I dont get it, if I was coach Herrmann would have started this year at the 4. But no he wants to start Primoz and keep trying OH. Geeze Im starting to have my doubts about coach myself.

Come on Bobcats!!!!!!

[Muttley]

Not ready to crucify Vincent, but the seeds of doubt are there. I wanna believe in these guys so much, but, c'mon this is absurd. Our defense was ass-tastic (and in the bad way, not the good vida guerra-y way).

[MattD]

I love watching us get destroyed... god, come on

[ziggy]

Why the hell is Vincent not playing Walter Herrmann? Derrick Anderson? Really? J Dud's at Center? Really?

Your guess is as good as mine. Seeing Othella get minutes instead of Walter is baffling.

[dnbman]

Our defense was ass-tastic (and in the bad way, not the good vida guerra-y way).


Lol. I have no idea what that meant. (although I just googled the phrase "vida guerra," which wasn't a Cuban cry for freedom, like I thought it was.)

Nice work.

[ohara831]

I'm not going to beat a dead horse. I've been stating my beliefs on this team for a couple weeks now. I will let their play bear out my argument. Hell, they were w/o their PF weapons of Bosh, Bargnani and without Garbajosa, and they kicked out asses 79 - 98. They outrebounded us 37 - 30! I am disgusted with their effort - all except for Dudley. I am proud of his efforts on his first start!

[ziggy]

I'm not going to beat a dead horse. I've been stating my beliefs on this team for a couple weeks now. I will let their play bear out my argument. Hell, they were w/o their PF weapons of Bosh, Bargnani and without Garbajosa, and they kicked out asses 79 - 98. They outrebounded us 37 - 30! I am disgusted with their effort - all except for Dudley. I am proud of his efforts on his first start!

ohara, theres not much that I can do to argue with you tonight, the Bobcats looked horrible with the exception of Dudley and Okafor(in his limited time on the court)
Mcinnis was bad, Ray was as bad as I've ever seen him. Crash & J-Rich couldn't find the basket... It was not a fun 2 hours.

[dnbman]

Felton was bad, for sure. But Vincent can't keep yanking him out after 5-6 minutes, sitting him on the bench for a while, and then putting him back in at shooting guard for 5-6 minutes. Every guard in the league goes through bad patches and you have to let them play through it.

Those first few games when Felton was great, he had some terrible plays also. However, he would find his way in the game, get people involved, and we'd win. Granted, those were against inferior teams, but this Toronto team without three key players is really a mediocre team too.

Everyone just looks lost. As someone at the REALGM board said, unselfish players playing selfishly is a good sign that there's not much of a game plan.

[ohara831]

I'm watching the other teams and their progress. I am going to make a sad prediction: By the All Start break, the only teams behind us will be Minnesota and Seattle. We will be 28th out of 30. The disfunction on this team is mind boggling. We have some talent, but they just do not seem to be able to play together on the Court. There is no cohesiveness and geling of the players. And J-Rich is getting more disappointing by the day. I am almost to the point of e-mailing Stephen A. Smith and appologizing to him for cussing him out on draft night! And that is really really sad. Boy, is MJ's legacy taking a hit for his managerial blunders!

[TheBeagle]

I'm not going to beat a dead horse. I've been stating my beliefs on this team for a couple weeks now. I will let their play bear out my argument. Hell, they were w/o their PF weapons of Bosh, Bargnani and without Garbajosa, and they kicked out asses 79 - 98. They outrebounded us 37 - 30! I am disgusted with their effort - all except for Dudley. I am proud of his efforts on his first start!


I'm watching the other teams and their progress. I am going to make a sad prediction: By the All Start break, the only teams behind us will be Minnesota and Seattle. We will be 28th out of 30. The disfunction on this team is mind boggling. We have some talent, but they just do not seem to be able to play together on the Court. There is no cohesiveness and geling of the players. And J-Rich is getting more disappointing by the day. I am almost to the point of e-mailing Stephen A. Smith and appologizing to him for cussing him out on draft night! And that is really really sad. Boy, is MJ's legacy taking a hit for his managerial blunders!
Ditto, ohara. Me and you have been the forerunners of the misery that is the Bobcats, and what sort of season it will be. I know some of you guys out there want to be positibe, and that's fine, but we're just being realistic, not pessimistic; this team has very very little upside, flat-out. I don't take any satisfaction at all predicting Bobcats losses and seeing them happen; like I posted on the Bulls thread, I gave them a 6% chance to win, and they played like they had a 6% chance to win.

I have no clue about the details of the game outside of the boxscore, but there's no excuse for that performance (looks like GW, Matt, and Dudley are the only ones deserving of getting paid for this game) against a team without their 3 best players. Bernie got SO much more out of his players than Vincent, it's like light years away from the previous seasons. This is, frankly, not the team I've pulled for over the last 3 years. :-\

I absolutely agree with ohara's assessment that we will be 28th out of 30 in terms of overall record by All Star break.
Other predictions (that I definitely hope DON'T come to pass, but I'm certain will)

1. As I predicted after Boston loss, we'll reach a losing streak into the teens before our next win.
2. We will win between 24-28 wins this season.
3. We will be battling NO for lowest attendence this year.
4. This franchise is going nowhere without a MASSIVE overhaul.

Very sad stuff, people. You can say what you will, but if you are realistic about it, you'll see the truth behind most of it.

[123together]

whats wrong with the cats?

[dvdbumpus]

whats wrong with the cats?


Vincent is having no confidence in his lineups. It's affecting the players mentality.

[ohara831]

whats wrong with the cats?


Vincent is having no confidence in his lineups. It's affecting the players mentality.
__________________________________________________ _

That is correct, sir. That is one xmall piece of the puzzle. But, I cannot blame the Coach. He does not have the pieces to put on the floor in which to have confidence.

[ohara831]

I'm not going to beat a dead horse. I've been stating my beliefs on this team for a couple weeks now. I will let their play bear out my argument. Hell, they were w/o their PF weapons of Bosh, Bargnani and without Garbajosa, and they kicked out asses 79 - 98. They outrebounded us 37 - 30! I am disgusted with their effort - all except for Dudley. I am proud of his efforts on his first start!


I'm watching the other teams and their progress. I am going to make a sad prediction: By the All Start break, the only teams behind us will be Minnesota and Seattle. We will be 28th out of 30. The disfunction on this team is mind boggling. We have some talent, but they just do not seem to be able to play together on the Court. There is no cohesiveness and geling of the players. And J-Rich is getting more disappointing by the day. I am almost to the point of e-mailing Stephen A. Smith and appologizing to him for cussing him out on draft night! And that is really really sad. Boy, is MJ's legacy taking a hit for his managerial blunders!
Ditto, ohara. Me and you have been the forerunners of the misery that is the Bobcats, and what sort of season it will be. I know some of you guys out there want to be positibe, and that's fine, but we're just being realistic, not pessimistic; this team has very very little upside, flat-out. I don't take any satisfaction at all predicting Bobcats losses and seeing them happen; like I posted on the Bulls thread, I gave them a 6% chance to win, and they played like they had a 6% chance to win.

I have no clue about the details of the game outside of the boxscore, but there's no excuse for that performance (looks like GW, Matt, and Dudley are the only ones deserving of getting paid for this game) against a team without their 3 best players. Bernie got SO much more out of his players than Vincent, it's like light years away from the previous seasons. This is, frankly, not the team I've pulled for over the last 3 years. :-\

I absolutely agree with ohara's assessment that we will be 28th out of 30 in terms of overall record by All Star break.
Other predictions (that I definitely hope DON'T come to pass, but I'm certain will)

1. As I predicted after Boston loss, we'll reach a losing streak into the teens before our next win.
2. We will win between 24-28 wins this season.
3. We will be battling NO for lowest attendence this year.
4. This franchise is going nowhere without a MASSIVE overhaul.

Very sad stuff, people. You can say what you will, but if you are realistic about it, you'll see the truth behind most of it.
__________________________________________________ ___

4 very sad predictions, but I agree with you completely. This is breaking my heart! Someone in management has got to do something to get this team back on the winning track. Half this team is simply non NBA material.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

How to get back on track (My opinion)

1. Let Herrmann start or be a primary back up. He has proved he can score, he has proved he can rebound...WHAT ELSE MUST HE PROVE?!

2. Have Wallace distribute more. I am tired of seeing him take random jump shots or running into crowds of 3-4 players to take a layup while Carrol or Rich is open. By the way, I blame a lot of Rich's poor play on Wallace. >____>

3. Although he can play it, DO NOT PUT FELTON AT SG AND MCINNIS AT PG. 99% of the time, Felton at PG and Rich, Carrol, or Anderson at SG is a better choice.

4. There is no excuse for putting Harrington in before Herrmann or Davidson. I DON'T CARE IF CARROL HAS TO PLAY C, DON'T FORCE HARRINGTON INTO THE ROTATION.

5. Dudley should start at PF not SF. I don't care if he is small, this guy can rebound. (We got such a steal in him)

6. I am seeing too many times where we are wasting the shot clock or we are shooting the first shot available. I saw this very rarely last year...why now?

7. I think that after the Magic game, Oak has decided to get better at scoring and it seems he has. GIVE HIM THE BALL DOWN LOW MORE!

8. When he gets healthy, have Hollins show off that he can jump high (Like he always does) every time a whistle blows. We will be a hard team to beat if half of the other team has been injured.

9. If Primo is playing, why is he almost always defending the more dominant post player? During the pre-season, Hollins basically played PF while on D while Oak took the most dominant post player on. DO THIS AGAIN IF IT'S AGAINST A C SUCH AS HOWARD!

10. Carrol can shoot 3s, give him the ball when the defender is playing loose (aka, 75% of the time)

...ok I think that's it.