Vincent was the wrong choice for this team

[sugarfree311]

With a young team, a point guard with questionable decision-making, a new go-to scorer, and increased expectations, hiring a coach with no experience was not smart. It just adds another intangible that in most cases will not be in our favor. This team needed someone with experience in the NBA that could really teach them. Maybe they'll turn it around, and this post will seem silly. I really hope so. But it doesn't seem very likely. We look completely inept most of the time. There were about 3 games early on that Ray looked really good, but he has been pathetic lately. For some reason he has no idea how to get Jason the ball, which makes Jason have to take bad shots. The team looks frustrated and no one can seem to make it any better.

I'm hoping for the best, but watching this team is just painful.

[davcbow]

Alot of it is 3/23 from the field that Felts J-Rich and Wallace. You can win nothing like that...... :g:

[Alex]

This team is giving up in games. They didn't do that the first three seasons.

[davcbow]

At this point we have a coach that came out during preseason and claimed we were going to play for a 4th spot in the postseason. Now we have a coach that gives excuses when nothing turns out right. Mean while the big name player we traded for isnt hitting on nothing and seems to be pulling Felton down along with him. Mek is doing his regular performance and Dudley showed us tonight what he can do, but from what I saw tonight, no one can play defence anymore. I dont care how many points were can score, if we cant stop the other team from scoring we will never win a game. WE HAVE TO COME OUT HITTING SHOTS IN THE ENTIRE GAME, not just the 2nd half, you cant win games that way. MJ you need to seriously shake it up or enjoy a very bad season. We are better than this, tonight we flat out sucked except for a few. This isnt what we were promised this season and yes Im pissed off.... :g:

[123together]

while it is very very early into vincent's coaching career, i definitely think its too early to call him the wrong choice. while i personally would have gone with a stan van gundy or a rick adelman, i don't think the coach's would have made a difference in our records, maybe 1 game so far (boston). that is the only game where vincent's actual in game coaching can be criticized. every game they've won they've deserved to win, and each loss has been deserved. every game they 've lost they've shot poorly, and thats not the coach's fault. we don't have a consistent post presence, so when the shots aren't falling, were gonna lose most games

[TheBeagle]

This team is giving up in games. They didn't do that the first three seasons.
It's not possible that I could agree with you anymore than I do with that statement!!! Like I posted on the game thread, this isn't the team I've pulled for over the last 3+ years. The guys are just clueless out there, and while Bernie will never be accused as being Red Auerbach, he was a guiding force for many of his players. I'll admit, I'm the only person in bobcatsplanet nation that was upset when I heard Bernie wasn't going to be back. The reason? What we've seen in many of the games this year; giving up when our backs are against the wall.

[Alex]

This team is giving up in games. They didn't do that the first three seasons.
It's not possible that I could agree with you anymore than I do with that statement!!! Like I posted on the game thread, this isn't the team I've pulled for over the last 3+ years. The guys are just clueless out there, and while Bernie will never be accused as being Red Auerbach, he was a guiding force for many of his players. I'll admit, I'm the only person in bobcatsplanet nation that was upset when I heard Bernie wasn't going to be back. The reason? What we've seen in many of the games this year; giving up when our backs are against the wall.




These are professional players though, they shouldn't need someone always trying to motivate them, they're freakin' grown men they should be able to motivate themselves. They were all talking playoffs before the season started but they don't really seem to want to get there too badly.

[Alex]

At this point we have a coach that came out during preseason and claimed we were going to play for a 4th spot in the postseason. Now we have a coach that gives excuses when nothing turns out right. Mean while the big name player we traded for isnt hitting on nothing and seems to be pulling Felton down along with him. Mek is doing his regular performance and Dudley showed us tonight what he can do, but from what I saw tonight, no one can play defence anymore. I dont care how many points were can score, if we cant stop the other team from scoring we will never win a game. WE HAVE TO COME OUT HITTING SHOTS IN THE ENTIRE GAME, not just the 2nd half, you cant win games that way. MJ you need to seriously shake it up or enjoy a very bad season. We are better than this, tonight we flat out sucked except for a few. This isnt what we were promised this season and yes Im pissed off.... :g:


You talk about defense as if the Bobcats have ever been able to play good defense. Let me give you a simple stat:

Opposing team points allowed per game:
2004-2005: 100.2
2005-2006: 100.9
2006-2007: 100.6

This year? We're keeping teams to 98.2, so one could argue that it's the best defense we've ever played. We'll return and look back at this stat at the end of the season, 16 games isn't enough to make a conclusive average.

[sugarfree311]

while it is very very early into vincent's coaching career, i definitely think its too early to call him the wrong choice. while i personally would have gone with a stan van gundy or a rick adelman, i don't think the coach's would have made a difference in our records, maybe 1 game so far (boston). that is the only game where vincent's actual in game coaching can be criticized. every game they've won they've deserved to win, and each loss has been deserved. every game they 've lost they've shot poorly, and thats not the coach's fault. we don't have a consistent post presence, so when the shots aren't falling, were gonna lose most games


Wow...are you serious? With the talent on this team, we do not deserve to lose that badly to philly, chicago, miami, atlanta, and toronto without their top 3 scorers, to name a few. In all of those games, the game was over in the first half pretty much. To say that a different coach wouldn't help there is crazy. A different coach would use different line-ups, substitution patterns, use timeouts differently, etc. Not to mention have different offensive sets completely. There's no way to know if a more experienced coach would change this, but as pathetic as we have looked, it couldn't get any worse.

Also, poor shooting can't be attributed to simply making or missing shots. Are they good shots? Is the PG getting the ball to others in position to score? Is the coach calling the right plays? There have been many times that Jason has thrown his arms up in frustration because of Raymond's play. Ray is back to his terrible decision-making again, and it's a coach's responsibility to sort that out.

[timang]

something needs to be done, more than pointing fingers to anyone IMO. the organization must realize that now.

[dav7z]

Its coach Vs first season and i expected mistakes. Some of the greats were all most fired in thair first season too like Smith and coach K. So less give him more than 16 games befor we fire him .
Yes im pissed at a lot of his actions last night but i don't know the reason behind them . Like OK50 playedok in the first half but loged very little mins in th 2nd half. Felton didn't play any in the 2nd quarter or in the 4th and very little in the 3rd.
I've notice a lot of one on one thease past six games with it looks like a power strugle as to who is the star. I've allso noticed we have all but abanded our run and gun stlye [ you just can't cut it on and off ]
Our stars got killed by thair beanch players last night which should have never happened.

Its truble and confusion in the camp thet we never had befor . Bernie and MJ might have to step in and adress the players and call some of them out on some things as well as have some discussions with coach V to help him get back on the right track .

[ohara831]

I will somewhat defend Sam for a few reasons:

1. Recall that before our roster of 15 under Contract was set, I believe he did say we were looking for a Big Man. He repeated that a few times. he said he had confidence in our front office to get him what he needed. I think they failed him! No, I KNOW they failed him!
2. There was a statment on another thread about the team playing with no confidence b/c the Coach was showing no confidence in any particular lineup. That is true, but the reverse is true as well. Sam has no confidence in any particular lineup because they have all failed him miserably.
3. I am not sure if you can place blame on the Coach for not getting these guys to gel. We can all see that J-Rich and Crash just are not mixing - they fail to be able to feed off of each other in any respect. That is likely why Crash is taking so damn many jumpers! I do not know if this is a situation in which any Coach gan wave a magic wand or sprinkle fairy dust (like Phil Jackson) to try and create a sense of unity, cohesion and togetherness. This team just does not play as one. Ray plays great at the PG one night with double digit assists, then has a night like last night with 0 pts on 0-8 shooting and a measily 3 assists. Way too inconsistent, and the fault is sometimes his and sometimes his team mates.
4. What can a Coach do to make his people always hustle and not to quit? Bench them? The only one starter all season whom I have never seen look like he quit on the game is Crash. Do you bench Okafor when he gets lazy? J-Rich when he sucks? (Well, that would be all but 4 games so far) Ray when he plays out of control? Primoz (Yes!)
**Toronto was without either of their main PF in the game. Okafor should have completely dominated them the way Dwight Howard dominates other good teams. He was less than average tonight! Unacceptable. And don't even think you can sniff the area of a MAX Contract - $13 mil was over paying you.

This is the season of our discontent. We are sinking as a team into a serious funk and may end up setting a record low in wins.**DO NOT BLAME THIS ON INJURIES. We all know that May or Morrison would not have made that much of a difference for us. We do not know how they would have inpacted the games, but clearly they would not have been any great Defensive help. No excuses.

Just as Beagle and I have been saying, and now others starting to come around, this team requires a Major overhaul. We may disagree on the exact remedy, but we know a major Change is required or we will continue to sink further into the abyss. A wise an will not put a band aid on a gash which reguires 20 stitches. He'll get gangreen and wind up losing an appendage. Just get the necessary treatment and expect a hefty doctor bill.

[walkerl]

Wow, where were the comments when the bobcats where 6-4. They have hit a bump in the road, and everyone is point fingers. Well if you wan to point fingers, lets start with Primo, he is the worst center in the league. Now we can move to the refs, I swear, the cats the fewest FT attempts in league.

I think the bobcats problem has to due with a lack of size, were are too small and since Primo sucks, its like playing 5 on 4 everygame.

[davcbow]

What I see is we fall behind by 10 points and then here comes the 3 pointer attempts which lately dont fall that much. Then on top of that the opposing team starts firing off there 3 pointers and hit almost all of them. Where is the perimeter defence against the three. The other teams are getting awesome looks from 3 point land and are hitting them. That to me is like kicking a dog when he is down. To me the assistant coaches arent teaching the guys what they should be teaching them. The players are all confussed on the floor, we have been going through some weard ass lineups. We have a awesome player riding the bench that dont get any playing time (Herrmann). Then we have real stinkers on the team that do get playing time (O.H.). I hope this is just growing pains, inexperienced coaching or what ever else.... :g:

[123together]

while it is very very early into vincent's coaching career, i definitely think its too early to call him the wrong choice.  while i personally would have gone with a stan van gundy or a rick adelman, i don't think the coach's would have made a difference in our records, maybe 1 game so far (boston).  that is the only game where vincent's actual in game coaching can be criticized.  every game they've won they've deserved to win, and each loss has been deserved.  every game they 've lost they've shot poorly, and thats not the coach's fault.  we don't have a consistent post presence, so when the shots aren't falling, were gonna lose most games


Wow...are you serious?  With the talent on this team, we do not deserve to lose that badly to philly, chicago, miami, atlanta, and toronto without their top 3 scorers, to name a few.  In all of those games, the game was over in the first half pretty much.  To say that a different coach wouldn't help there is crazy.  A different coach would use different line-ups, substitution patterns, use timeouts differently, etc.  Not to mention have different offensive sets completely.  There's no way to know if a more experienced coach would change this, but as pathetic as we have looked, it couldn't get any worse.

Also, poor shooting can't be attributed to simply making or missing shots.  Are they good shots?  Is the PG getting the ball to others in position to score?  Is the coach calling the right plays?  There have been many times that Jason has thrown his arms up in frustration because of Raymond's play.  Ray is back to his terrible decision-making again, and it's a coach's responsibility to sort that out.


yes i'm serious, in all of the games you mentioned, not even red auerbech could have won those games for us.  the bobcats players played poorly, no matter what substitution patterns or timeout patterns would have been used.  there is no way subs and timeout can make up 15-30 points in some of the games that we lost.  my point is when we lose, the bobcats shoot bad.  how many layups have been missed by wallace, felton, OKAFOR and richardson?  layups are good shots, the coach can't make them go in.  and the offensive sets are pick and rolls every time, 80% of the nba is a 2 man game with the pick and roll, so these different offensive sets you talk about would be what? more pick and rolls. part of the reason were on this losing streak is because the teams we've lost to ARE BETTER THAN US, that may have something to do with the losing, possibly. just throwing that out there.
also the bobcatst are not as talented as you think, they have maybe 3 players that are bonafide starters in this league, good teams like dallas, san antonio, boston have about 6. that is something coaching can't fix

[timang]

Wow, where were the comments when the bobcats where 6-4. They have hit a bump in the road, and everyone is point fingers. Well if you wan to point fingers, lets start with Primo, he is the worst center in the league. Now we can move to the refs, I swear, the cats the fewest FT attempts in league.

I think the bobcats problem has to due with a lack of size, were are too small and since Primo sucks, its like playing 5 on 4 everygame.


ditto that! :mad:

[TheBeagle]

Wow, where were the comments when the bobcats where 6-4. They have hit a bump in the road, and everyone is point fingers.

My comments, when the 'Cats were 6-4 went something like this:

Hell yes!!! 6-4 is beautiful!!!! That said, the next 3 games we've got coming up will be more telling about what kind of team we have here. You have to admit beating Wade-less Miami twice, Seattle, Portland, Indiana and squeaking one out against Milwaukee on opening night, isn't that herculean. We've got the Wiz, Magic, and Celtics coming up; how we do against these division foes, and eastern powers (the latter two) will be more indicative of where we're at, but I'm loving 6-4!!!!!!!

Those were my comments basically (can't remember the thread, probably the Portland game thread), and we have yet to win since. I was happy, but very very cautious, and as we've seen, for very very good reasons. I'm not trying to be self-righteous, but I wasn't preparing for playoff ticket purches after our first 10 games. I knew we had a lot more to prove, and we've proven what kind of team we are when we face tough opponents and adversity: we crumble. Thus the criticism and "finger pointing".