We need to trade for a big

[dav7z]

Hate to say this but Herrmann , Davidson , Dudley are our most tradable peices.
What do you think it would take to get a severable big so we can compeat.
Lets just use Frye or some one of his caliber.
Hear is his stats.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3934



Im thinking a second and Herrmann might do it.
Thoughts on geting a big.

[spectre]

Fabio for Frye.

Fabio/Harrington for Nazr Muhammed - would probably help us the most, but he's also got a long contract.

SAR for expirings...Primoz/Harrington

If nothing else, I think the losing is going to force management into doing something sooner rather than later.

[dav7z]

Spectra agreed and we looking at trying to pick up a contract such as a Frye. Nazr a P.J Brown as i think a MLE would be to much for a Brown.

[CaptainCrunch]

A trade for any big guy would be fine with me

[davcbow]

I agree with both of you guys, the Bobcats are in a horrible situation. I think management was depending way too heavily on Mays play this season and we all know that story and thats why we let Voskuhl go. Primoz isnt working out like we all hoped. Hollins is still a bit raw but was getting better before he got hurt, Davidson is still young and learning, and Harrington hasnt showed up at all yet. As far as trading Herrmann goes, if the team isnt going to play him why not trade him and what ever else it would take to get a good big that can play. By no means unless it was a really big time player would I consider using Dudley in a trade because he shows alot of promise and right now we need everything we can get.... :g:

[dav7z]

We have very few tradable peices right now and i don't want to give up a 1st round pick to to patch a hole. I hate to say this but Dudley , Davidson , and Herrmann are about our only choices with out getting into our core players.
We could just sign some free agent for the year but i don't think thats a big enough patch.
Atendance is all ready droping after six loses . Somthing has to be done.

[spectre]

Right...I wouldn't trade Duds unless it was bringing back "the guy".

I agree with ya Dav on them depending too much on May as well as bringing the two rookies in. I think they offered Jake the vet minimum and he said screw that, he can get more...and he did.

Dav7 expand beyond value vs. value. Guys like SAR and Nazr, their teams will give those guys up for expirings.

I'm pretty convinced we're going to do something soon

[dav7z]

Agreeed It looks like coach V wanted to do somthing yesterday.
I look to see Herrmann traded soon.

http://www.charlotte.com/bobcats/story/393191.html

[Dead_Real]

I'd do Fabio for Patrick O'Bryant without thinking twice we need a banger big man seriously to go along side OK50.

[spectre]

I'd do Fabio for Patrick O'Bryant without thinking twice we need a banger big man seriously to go along side OK50.


THAT'S the route I think I like best, as he has potential to be a keeper, is only one a 1 yr deal and he's CHEAP.

[ohara831]

I would not do it at this time. Honestly, I would do what I have been proposing and try and trade Okafor with Phoenix for their Atlanta pick and their own 1st. If we have 2 Lottery picks, we can get a scoring threat and a big in the top 10 picks. Spend the late 1st from Phoenix on the best available, be it a scorer or Big. Then, we go after Antawn Jamison as a FA to fill the PF slot. Keep Ray and Crash from our current starting 5, J-Rich is our 6th man leading the second 5, and Okafor is in Phoenix celebrating a Title from this season.
2008-9 starting 5 would be Ray, Rookie, Crash, Jamison and Rookie. That is youth mixed with veran leadership and some youthful experience.

[ohara831]

Guys, going after POB, Nazr and the like is only putting a band aid on a serious wound. It might make 2-3 games difference, and that is not worth giving up someone like Dudley or Davidson. Any deals should have been make several weeks ago, and we are 20% through this season at this stage. By the time mgmnt does something this season, it will be 50% gone and we will be giving up people for nothing.

[spectre]

I'll never ever agree with being in "tank" mode...which is what we'd be doing by giving Okafor away for a chancy lottery pick (even tho the Suns wouldn't do it anyway). The players and coach need and deserve at least some semblence of management trying to give them the tools to win. Getting another big will do that.

Most aren't ready to wipe out the team and start over...thankfully.

[ohara831]

I'll never ever agree with being in "tank" mode...which is what we'd be doing by giving Okafor away for a chancy lottery pick (even tho the Suns wouldn't do it anyway). The players and coach need and deserve at least some semblence of management trying to give them the tools to win. Getting another big will do that.

Most aren't ready to wipe out the team and start over...thankfully.
__________________________________________________ ____

I'm not saying tank" the season. I am arguing for reorganization and rebuilding. We do not have the correct pieces to complete this puzzle. The guys cannot play cohesive team oriented ball. I am taking the one guy whom we do not have under Contract over the next few years, and may possibly lose altogether next year, and trading him for what I think will be the best available talent. I do not see anyone swapping Okafor for a current player of equal value, which is why I think 2 first rounders, one being Lottery, is the way to rebuild. Those picks around Ray, Crash and hopefully Antawn J. as our FA signee starting 4 would be a good way to rebuild for next year.

[spectre]

Just out of curiosity...do any of these proposed lottery picks play defense in the paint as well as Mek? If people think we're getting beaten now, remember how it was during that 15 game stretch last year.

If we trade Mek for a lottery pick then tanking is exactly what we'd be doing, as there's no way to win without him on this current team.

[ALong13]

Honestly even though I don't like saying it and most of you don't want to hear it, I think we are kicking ourselves out of the playoffs and into lottery contention..In ways that's good, and hopefully we can draft a NBA ready PF and/or center early on, one that will be ready to play and start right away...because IMO that's what I think it's heading too...

[ohara831]

Just out of curiosity...do any of these proposed lottery picks play defense in the paint as well as Mek? If people think we're getting beaten now, remember how it was during that 15 game stretch last year.

If we trade Mek for a lottery pick then tanking is exactly what we'd be doing, as there's no way to win without him on this current team.
__________________________________________________ ___

I'll guarantee you that we wont be any worse off than we are right now.

Just go to any of the NBA sites, be it ESPN or something like nbadraft.net. Read on what they are saying as the pros and cons of the top 10 rated picks. As an example: What if we could land Rose. An incredibly talented PG who can dish, penetrate, score and rebound. Play Ray as the 2 guard and let Ray be our back up PG. There would not be a better back up in the NBA. There are likely a couple very young but high caliber big men. They have all the same qualities that Dwight Howard did when he was coming out of HS. Watch Jordan at Texas A&M, the kid at Ohio State, and try to follow what they say about Riek, the kid in HA in Mass who is eligible due to age and his being from Sudan. Plus, they will have 1 yr of college, except of Riek. Beasley would be a 4 when he comes out, but he will go #1. Antawn is good for another 4-5 yrs at PF so I do not think about having the #1 pick. We are bad, but Minn is pathetic. Seattle may win more than us as their Rookie Durant starts to get acclamated to the NBA. (He is going to be very special.) Then, you have someone like the Gordon kid at Indiana. He will be a scoring phenom. I am unsure of Mayo, as he does have baggage. Got to see how he handles himself at USC this season.

Anyway, there is a great deal of high quality. In the past, 1/2 of the top 10 would have come out of HS straight. Now, they have to go at least a year of college, and then you have some who will come out after Soph yr of college. I just think the talent is more developed and deeper since the new NBA rule on eligibility.

Again, this all goes to my very very uneasy feeling regarding Okafor. I am sorry, but I just feel strongly that there will be a rift develope b/t he and mgmnt on his Contract. He is proving he is hardly worth the $13 mil offered, and they are quite likely to reduce the offer after the season, but surely will not go up. That will not sit well with him, expecially if he was wanting more like $15 - $17 mil. I just feel like we will lose him anyway, so I think that around the All Star break we assess our position and think about the move.

If I thought for one minute that we were only 1 good big man away from contention, one good big to help Okafor, I would reconsider what I am saying. But our problems run much much deeper. This is not a "team" in the truest sense of the word. We are just several good players who look unorganized, never on the same page, and unable to gel at all.

[ohara831]

Honestly even though I don't like saying it and most of you don't want to hear it, I think we are kicking ourselves out of the playoffs and into lottery contention..In ways that's good, and hopefully we can draft a NBA ready PF and/or center early on, one that will be ready to play and start right away...because IMO that's what I think it's heading too...
__________________________________________________ _

That is all I'm saying, too. I love my Cats, but there is a problem here and we have to think about something major to fix it. A minor repair here and there is not going to do much of anything except cost money, get our hopes up for a couple weeks, only to be frustrated as hell at the continued troubles. We need major help, and retooling of our entire game plan as an organization.

We need a "brain" like Jerry West to come in and take over.

[ziggy]

Just out of curiosity...do any of these proposed lottery picks play defense in the paint as well as Mek? If people think we're getting beaten now, remember how it was during that 15 game stretch last year.

If we trade Mek for a lottery pick then tanking is exactly what we'd be doing, as there's no way to win without him on this current team.

Amen to that Spectre. If we trade Mek and don't get a defensive force in return, then we're looking at 22 wins tops this season.

If we were offered Frye for Fabio, I'd make that deal in a heartbeat. Hes a significant upgrade over Primoz, Othella, Ryan and Jermario.

Heres one more name to throw out there for discussion, What about Tyrus Thomas? Him and Scott Skiles can't seem to get along, and he would be an athletic 4 that could play alongside Emeka if we start Mek at center.
Would something like that make sense?

[ohara831]

Ziggy: If we could get TT for Fabio straight up, I would jump all over that. But I don't think Chicago will considering he was a Lottery pick himself. Also, that does not address my concerns re: Okafor and losing him next yr. You have to remember, this is a business, egos are involved, and a player trying to get a long term Max contract may be difficult to deal with if his agent is a jackass. Please guys, do not underestimate this potential nightmare. I was SURE the deal was getting done this year and could not fathom it not being done. Well, something was rotten in Denmark, and the smell is getting stronger. I just think that this will bite us in the ass.

[Keetch]

I agree with Spectre and Ziggy; no way do I give up Okafor for draft picks, just no way. There is no sure thing in the lottery. Even the worst team in the league could end up picking fourth. Likewise, there can be no tanking; this team must try to get its act together and start playing smarter.

It is my opinion that we are actually 2 players and one head coach away from being a very good team. Those players would be a power forward (Beasley would of course be awesome) and a long, tall F/SG with defensive skills to give us the flexibility to go big, instead of being forced into small ball. And no I don't think that player is AMMO. Not sure, but I don't think small back courts go far; and we're pretty small.

Of course we need front court help, but I REALLY hope we don't waste future cap space or otherwise valuable players for another retread. Only players with future potential please; I think POB fits that criteria. We've seen Primoz Brezac and Othella Harrington, and we don't need more of them.

[Keetch]

Trading Okafor out of fear smacks of the Hornets Alonzo Mourning trade and could do irreparable damage to this team. He will be an RFA next year, not unrestricted. If a team can't own up the nads to keep its most valued commodities, then it should pack it in and get out of the f'in league...now.

The whole idea just pisses me off frankly.

Edit: actually I don't think they traded Mourning. If I remember correctly; he walked. Even so; I totally blamed the Hornets management. Even when Zo was clearly just a jerk. Okafor is not a jerk at all I don't think, but actually a very honorable and loyal guy; so long as nobody disrespects him back; to be sure.

[ReesieNCPantherCatfan1]

Zo actually got traded to the Heat for Glen Rice and a gang of others. I remember the sinking feeling I got when Shinn didn't want to pay him 10 mil a year in 1995, and the trade was announced. I think that was the beginning of the end for the Hornets in Charlotte. (shinns sex scandal didn't help either)

I agree that we should hold on to Mek. He will never be much more than he is now offensively, but he is still a good building block and a good big man. I believe he will come to his senses and take the 13 mil at the end of the year unless he picks up the pace and has a monster season. Also he is a restriced FA next year, and we know that we can match any offer (remember Varejo?). We have plenty of time to evaluate our options with what to do with Mek if he doesn't sign, but there shouldn't be any hurry.

Overall I think we have a lot of solid players, and if we get lucky and get a good pick we could be a formidable team with Hibbert at center and Mek at PF, or Mek at C and Love at PF (I don't like Koufas as a big, he looked horrible vs UNC). I think we have many peices in place, so I dont see the need to blow it up just yet.

Trading Okafor out of fear smacks of the Hornets Alonzo Mourning trade and could do irreparable damage to this team. He will be an RFA next year, not unrestricted. If a team can't own up the nads to keep its most valued commodities, then it should pack it in and get out of the f'in league...now.

The whole idea just pisses me off frankly.

Edit: actually I don't think they traded Mourning. If I remember correctly; he walked. Even so; I totally blamed the Hornets management. Even when Zo was clearly just a jerk. Okafor is not a jerk at all I don't think, but actually a very honorable and loyal guy; so long as nobody disrespects him back; to be sure.

[ohara831]

Well, I was counselling on waiting till the All Star Break before considering the move. But it looks like the way Atlanta is playing now, they are going to be somewhere outside of the Top Ten in picks, maybe outside the Lottery. That just kills my idea of trading with Phoenix for that pick. That whole idea is flying out the window unless Atlanta starts to have trouble. But they are starting to come together nicely, I hate to admit.

[ohara831]

If I have to shelve my idea of the Okafor trade, then I can only hope and pray we get a deal done in off season. As far as a trade, I do not want some broken down big man to be a small band aid. I want someone like Ziggy mentioned: can we get Tyrus from Chicago. It may take something like Walter, Primoz and our maybe even our 2nd rounder. That concerns me as we are going to have high picks and an early 2nd rounder can be valuable. However, Tyrus was a Lottery pick so he will be expensive to get.
**Also, if we were to somehow make it a 2-1 trade, would that not then clear us a spot to get a 15th Contract also?

[spectre]

I'd love to get TT or any other that could be THE guy, but we just don'thave the assets to get it done unless one of the core goes. To get TT they'd want Mek.

Maybe near the trade deadline we can pull something with our pick, but even then teams don't want to trade their potential but usually a vet with a contract.

Seattle is going to be high in the lottery. Maybe they'd take our pick + some expirings for Wilcox using the same rationale as Ohara has been about Mek/ATL pick? Probably as much a pipedream as TT, but since they aren't going anywhere anytime soon (plus their issues with moving) that might be possible.

BTW, Keetch, you're dead on about the coach. With us being so young I'm starting to think it was more a mistake going with a rookie than previously. Hopefully he'll be like Sam Mitchell and get it and the team together. Problem with that is it took him 3 seasons.

[ohara831]

If we have a top 5 pick in the Draft, I use it. I do not trade it. Not this in this Draft.

[Keetch]

oh yeah Glen Rice lol....good times.

[ohara831]

As much as I like Tyrus as a possible PF to play with Okafor, I really think I would like Eddy Curry as our Center to play along side Okafor. With all the issues in NY, and talk of them blowing up the team, can you see any way of doing that deal? I cannot see how to make it work on the Trade Machine. If we had him at Center and Okafor at PF, then in the draft we can just focus on the best scoring threat available.

[dav7z]

Ziggy i agree with you on T.T. but don't think Herrmann and a 2nd could pull that off. Its a chance he's not starting. As far as Frye . He was a loto pick to picked 8th in the 2006 draft[ hes not trash] POB. is all so no slob . He came out in 2006 all so and has a hell of a up side. Both of those players could start for us . And right now only geting fill in mins on thair teams now.
I think Frye would be our best chance of landing a decent with Portland having a team of bigs and no need of Frye with Olden , LMA , and company. They in need of a ouy side threat and Herrmann could fit that bill.
POB would be nice but Golden state is not overloaded with bigs. And seem to have plenty of shooters. It's still a chance as he don't seem to be in the good graces of Nellie.
TT. I think the Bulls still have hope for a big fucture with him. To get him it would cost a first and a player or two [ expiring contracts]
Nazr could be good atainable i don't know but a good thought.
As far as trading OK for a draft pick, to me thats the same thing as tanking. BUT im not going as far as to say hes untradable. If the RIGHT deal came to me i would consider it.