How bad would it have to get for Vincent to be fired by the end of the season?

[ziggy]

I don't anticipate it happening, But what do you think it would take for Sam Vincent to get axed by the end of the season?
20 games below .500, 30 games below .500. An all out player rebellion? Some sort of power move by Emeka saying that he won't re-sign as long as Vincent is the coach?
What do you think it would take?

[dav7z]

An all our rebellion, He has his ace in the hole the lack of a quility big.

[ohara831]

I don't think Okafor alone would do it. Like I mentioned in other posts, I think that if mgmnt feels he is going to hold out for more than $13 mil, he'll never see it from Bob Johnson. I honestly think it would take a player rebellion straight to MJ. Sam is MJ's man, so they would have to air concerns to MJ and persuade him that Sam is wrong for the Bobcats. I honestly do not want that to happen. I hate when the inmates start to run the asylum.

[MattD]

This is awful... we cannot have jordans friends running the bobcats with him as an owner, it doesnt work, you dont do business with your friends because when they fuck up, you either lose the friendship or hurt the business... how difficult is it to fire a friend... very, we are screwing ourselves step by step. we need a new owner, new team, new pa announcer, hell new everything except the arena that is really nice

[spectre]

we need a new owner, new team, new pa announcer, hell new everything except the arena that is really nice

Was everyone's knee jerking this bad last year at this time when we had a 5 and 15 record?

We are worse in the front court than we were last year and it's obvious this deficiency is costing us games. V is a rookie coach and NO ONE should be surprised that there would be struggle. He will get at least 2 years and probably 3 before he'd be axed.

[ohara831]

we need a new owner, new team, new pa announcer, hell new everything except the arena that is really nice

Was everyone's knee jerking this bad last year at this time when we had a 5 and 15 record?

We are worse in the front court than we were last year and it's obvious this deficiency is costing us games. V is a rookie coach and NO ONE should be surprised that there would be struggle. He will get at least 2 years and probably 3 before he'd be axed.
__________________________________________________ __

I thoroughly agree. Sam should get at least 2 full years at the helm to prove himself. I think management has not given him the talent to succeed yet.
Regarding the comparison to last year, Spectre, I honestly felt more confidence in last year's team! I know that may sound crazy, but we played as a TEAM last year. I have only seen that a handful of times this year.

[spectre]

That's because as bad as Bernie was with Xs and Os he had experience. He didn't draw up plays and he ran very simple offensive sets...things that are EASY to learn (like running Ammo around the entire half court trying to get him free off screens). We sucked defensively...usually last in opponents' FG%, and we struggled to stay in games. The only thing we did is work hard and never gave up...but even then we lost.

V (I assume) is trying to incorporate some actual plays, yet we're struggling because...we've never ran plays of any significance before! There are no plays to get Mek involved...V is trying to put that in. No plays for Crash...his game is isolation where he usually drives and tries to make something happen.

You guys don't want mediocrity...well that's what our guys have been learning for the last 3 years. Working hard will only get you so far; you have to learn HOW to win.

BTW, I don't see the guys not working hard...I think they're doing everything they can. I see them CONFUSED. Some of that is no doubt Vincent, but a lot of it is the stagnation of their basketball growth over the last few years.

[spectre]

We sucked defensively...usually last in opponents' FG%, and we struggled to stay in games.  The only thing we did is work hard and never gave up...but even then we lost.

Speaking of which...let's go back to the game a while back (Chicago?) where we continually got burnt off screens.  You know what, we've ALWAYS got burnt off screens.  I know I'm not the only one that still has nightmares about Primoz' man setting the screen, Primoz gets in our PGs way trying to get around the screen and Primoz ends up trailing the guard from about 4 ft while he goes in for the layup?

Well V answered that the very next game.  The guys now rush the screen and overwhelm the guy with the ball.  It's not worked every time, but its does most times.

What Bernie never addressed in three years V did it after one game.

It's a work in progress, and it ain't gonna be fixed overnight.

[davcbow]

I call it going pains! :g:

[123together]

i would hope that they don't fire vincent just because its so soon, but if we lose more games than we did last year, there may be reason for him to be axed, especailly cuz we've been healthy this year

[davcbow]

I say give it some time at least till all-star break and lets see if things change for the better if not then weight all the options and execute when the season is over. I think its just growing pains, rookie coach; come on guys he dont have all the answers as a rookie coach. We had 2 crutcial players we were counting to be healthy out for the season. We have no one to back up Mek no matter if he plays C or PF we need a 4 if he plays 5 we need a 5 if he plays 4, Im talking starter to go with Felts, J-Rich, Wallace, Mek, ??, due to the way V likes to play his players. I think the only solution this season is a trade, but I wouldnt want to go that route unless its a trade we cant refuse. After this season we need to dump McInnis and Harrington right off the bat and figure out whats up with Mek's contract and figure out what we are going to do about Herrmann, I like him and wish coach would start him at the 4 spot and let Mek play the 5 spot this season so he can show us all what he can really do, maybe hushing alot of his critics and making a believer of V. As the team sits at this moment I think we should draft a big and another PG and work the FA market, but of course this all depends on whats trades we make if any....:g:

[Edrow]

Easy question. An all out mutiny.

-Edrow

[babyj42]

give it time guys... he is a rookie coach and a very young one at that... we will and should give him time

[Wallace15]

No matter how bad it gets this year, he won't get fired. Now, if next season we were to finish 20-30 games below .500 then he'll be gone.

Just wondering, how good to you guys think we would be doing if we had hired SVG has our coach?

[spectre]

You'd need a lot of assumptions...like Fabio coming in presumably as a starter like a lot of us thought this summer.  You'd also have to think we'd have began with simpler offensive sets, which changes a lot of things. 

Mek - Dwight
Crash - Lewis
Fabio - Turk
Jrich - Bogans
Felton - Nelson

I think most of us would agree Dwight is better than Mek...but not that much.  The rest is pretty close though.

We'd probably still have lost to Philly without Felts and also the Suns.  We'd have won the Houston, Boston & Washington game, probably the Chicago games, maybe Atlanta, Magic and the Heat.

13-5 maybe?

[babyj42]

we have to realize that while Van Gundy is a great coach he is not a miracle worker... howard does outshine oak even head to head... we are just not as talented and deep as other teams are... we get either morrison or may to be consistant next year and we should be fine... i just think we expected both of them to be a key part of our line up... we will be much better if we try to improve next year... we have new players without much time playing together... this year we are trying to:

1. start a new system
2. ask 5 starters all under the age of 27 to be consistant
3. bring in 2 new starters and want great impact from guys like ryan hollins who was the 50th person in last years draft to bhave a major impact
4. We are SO young

just be patient

[ziggy]

we have to realize that while Van Gundy is a great coach he is not a miracle worker... howard does outshine oak even head to head... we are just not as talented and deep as other teams are... we get either morrison or may to be consistant next year and we should be fine... i just think we expected both of them to be a key part of our line up... we will be much better if we try to improve next year... we have new players without much time playing together... this year we are trying to:

1. start a new system
2. ask 5 starters all under the age of 27 to be consistant
3. bring in 2 new starters and want great impact from guys like ryan hollins who was the 50th person in last years draft to bhave a major impact
4. We are SO young

just be patient


Welcome to BobcatsPlanet babyj42,
Glad to see you bringing some some positivity. The last 10 games have been rough and over that stretch a lot of us (myself included) have been down on the team and the staff..
Its good to see some positive words. :)

[davcbow]

we have to realize that while Van Gundy is a great coach he is not a miracle worker... howard does outshine oak even head to head... we are just not as talented and deep as other teams are... we get either morrison or may to be consistant next year and we should be fine... i just think we expected both of them to be a key part of our line up... we will be much better if we try to improve next year... we have new players without much time playing together... this year we are trying to:

1. start a new system
2. ask 5 starters all under the age of 27 to be consistant
3. bring in 2 new starters and want great impact from guys like ryan hollins who was the 50th person in last years draft to bhave a major impact
4. We are SO young

just be patient



I agree with you and welcome to BobcatsPlanet. I usually have the possitive attitude but I do get ticked off at times when we lose because we blow it in the 4th quarter (coaching? players? both?) or come out in the 1st quarter throwing bricks and not playing defence (players? coaching? both?). I say give it more time and then do something if it is needed.... :g:

[timang]

if we get a lot less wins than last year. that definitely would speak "yanking out of coaching contract" for him.

[babyj42]

and of course his link to jordan should buy him some time... i just wanna evaluate the team at the end of the year before we throw him under the bus

[Muttley]

and of course his link to jordan should buy him some time... i just wanna evaluate the team at the end of the year before we throw him under the bus


Unless we had some well-respected superstar coach coming in to replace him, canning SV before the end of the season would be detrimental to the entire franchise for years to come through the instability it would create. We'd eventually have to find that already well-respected, superstar coach to stabilize it all again.

[babyj42]

and to me this would be an attractive job... VERY young team with tons of young talent... no bad contracts and no guys who are big locker room distractions... great new arena... great young big man and a good young point guard (the two toughest positions to get young players)... we'll see who could come in here

[Muttley]

If MJ can convince Phil Jackson leave Kobe's ass and come here (therefore maintaining the MJ-connection), then I'm sure we can find a nice desk job for Sam. I'd have no problem with that.

[Muttley]

Well, PJ just signed his extension through '09-'10. So, scratch that.

[Dunk]

He's not going anywhere for a while.

It's still way too early to make any calls on Vincent. I'd argue that you'd have to at least get through year one and into year 2 when players get into his system, some trades, free agents, and a draft under his belt.

Right now, in all fairness, Coach got someone elses team and he might not have the guys he wants, or that are even able, to run his system. Plus, he's a rookie coach in the NBA.



And he's a FOM (Friend of Mike).