J-Rich Better Than G-Wallace

[wil]

I have observed especially this last few games the play of both. I have noticed that GW also suffers from the same problem as with okafor and felton. He is out of place with his natural position which is SF. When he plays SF he doesn't play well as compared to him playing PF. Bottom line the bobcats still play him as a PF even though the concept of the team suffers. I guess this why no other team offered more money than charlotte to him. He is an out of position type of player, and players like that are hard to insert in a system without sacrificing the team.

On the other hand, J-rich is the only player in this club who can really play his natural position which is SG and remain effective as a piece of a team without sacrifing other positions.. i guess that also explains his huge contract compared to wallace who just signed before this season...


So we have a team who's best PF is supposed to be a natural SF (Wallace), a C who's supposed to be a natural PF, and a SG who's supposed to be a natural PG. And lastly, a Coach who's supposed to be a women's baskeball coach!!

How do we solve this??? :g: :afro:

[davcbow]

#1 Hire a new coach, fire an old one.
#2 Hire a new coach, fire an old one.
#3 Same as #1 or #2 :g:

[Muttley]

I have observed especially this last few games the play of both. I noticed that he also suffers from the same problem as with okafor and felton. he is out of place with his natural position which is SF. when he plays SF he doesn't play well as compared to him playing PF. Bottom line the bobcats still play him as a PF even though the concept of the team suffers. i guess this why no other team offered more money than charlotte to him. He is an out of position type of player, and players like that are hard to insert in a system without sacrificing the team.

On the other hand, J-rich is the only player in this club who can really play his natural position which is SG and remain effective as a piece of a team without sacrifing other positions.. i guess that also explains his huge contract compared to wallace who just signed before this season...


So we have a team who's best PF is supposed to be a natural SF (Wallace), a C who's supposed to be a natural PF, and a SG who's supposed to be a natural PG. And lastly, a Coach who's supposed to be a women's baskeball coach!!

How do we solve this??? :g: :afro:



You've got to be kidding me. At this point, who cares? Wallace is a badass and JRich has been playing like one lately too. Who cares which is better? Wallace can guard larger guys, he just gets beat up a bit more. He can take it, though. If Wallace is best at PF, then play him there. If Oak is best at C, play him there. If Vincent is best coaching women's basketball, let him coach there.

[Slam]

I have observed especially this last few games the play of both. I noticed that he also suffers from the same problem as with okafor and felton. he is out of place with his natural position which is SF. when he plays SF he doesn't play well as compared to him playing PF. Bottom line the bobcats still play him as a PF even though the concept of the team suffers. i guess this why no other team offered more money than charlotte to him. He is an out of position type of player, and players like that are hard to insert in a system without sacrificing the team.

On the other hand, J-rich is the only player in this club who can really play his natural position which is SG and remain effective as a piece of a team without sacrifing other positions.. i guess that also explains his huge contract compared to wallace who just signed before this season...


So we have a team who's best PF is supposed to be a natural SF (Wallace), a C who's supposed to be a natural PF, and a SG who's supposed to be a natural PG. And lastly, a Coach who's supposed to be a women's baskeball coach!!

How do we solve this??? :g: :afro:



You've got to be kidding me. At this point, who cares? Wallace is a badass and JRich has been playing like one lately too. Who cares which is better? Wallace can guard larger guys, he just gets beat up a bit more. He can take it, though. If Wallace is best at PF, then play him there. If Oak is best at C, play him there. If Vincent is best coaching women's basketball, let him coach there.




------------------

AMEN!!

The compliment each other. Why not just leave it at that and be happy that they are both ours?

[Wallace15]

I have observed especially this last few games the play of both. I noticed that he also suffers from the same problem as with okafor and felton. he is out of place with his natural position which is SF. when he plays SF he doesn't play well as compared to him playing PF. Bottom line the bobcats still play him as a PF even though the concept of the team suffers. i guess this why no other team offered more money than charlotte to him. He is an out of position type of player, and players like that are hard to insert in a system without sacrificing the team.

On the other hand, J-rich is the only player in this club who can really play his natural position which is SG and remain effective as a piece of a team without sacrifing other positions.. i guess that also explains his huge contract compared to wallace who just signed before this season...


So we have a team who's best PF is supposed to be a natural SF (Wallace), a C who's supposed to be a natural PF, and a SG who's supposed to be a natural PG. And lastly, a Coach who's supposed to be a women's baskeball coach!!

How do we solve this??? :g: :afro:



You've got to be kidding me. At this point, who cares? Wallace is a badass and JRich has been playing like one lately too. Who cares which is better? Wallace can guard larger guys, he just gets beat up a bit more. He can take it, though. If Wallace is best at PF, then play him there. If Oak is best at C, play him there. If Vincent is best coaching women's basketball, let him coach there.


:hysterical:

Yeah, at this point I don't care who is better. They're both playing great basketball right now. If Okafor starts producing like we know he can and Vincent actually uses good rotations then we'd be just fine.

[Muttley]

They've seemed to gel well together lately. Even getting each other's backs in the media (when future asst. coach Sam Vincent won't).

Really, of all the things to be discussing right now, trying to decide who's better among these two just doesn't seem all that worth while to me right now. Let's just be happy we've got two really nice pieces that are trying their damnedest to keep us from sucking worse.

[123together]

to say that on rich is playing his natural position is absurd. wallace may not be best suited for the 4 spot, but okafor was a college and HS center, so why can't he play it in the leauge. im sick of ppl on here saying felton isn't a true PG, if he isn't a PG, tell me what other positions he played in college, even HS or maybe when he was in 3rd grade. it was PG.

wallace and rich have been ballin outta control lately at the same time. rich and wallace are each putting up like 45-50 combined points a night. i'd say its one of the best 1-2 scoring punches in the league, we just need to get okafor more touches to win games tho.

[dvdbumpus]

I don't care who's better like the other say. I'm just stoked that they've been steadily improving. Now we just need to figure out getting rid of Mcinnis and setting the lineup and bench straight.

[TheBeagle]

I have no clue how you can make the argument JR is better than GW; it's absurd. GW has him beat in every, EVERY statistical category except for 3ptFG%, and even then Crash has a very respectable 36%. He averages more pts, rebs, asts, stls, blks, mins, better FT, better FG, etc., etc. Like most of us, I'm a huge GW fan, but I'm really warming up to JR, and as my apology thread indicates, he has been even better than advertised. That said, it is impossible to state that JR is better than Crash from an unbiased perspective.

PS. I agree with y'all that the two of them are our cornerstones and are really gelling together, which makes this discussion irrelevant for the most part, but I had to weigh in to bring some common sense to Wil's argument. Anyway, how does playing out of position make one an inferior player to the other? GW is damn nasty wherever he plays: 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 for that matter! In closing, our two best players need some help, or we got no chance!

[walkerl]

J rich man be slightly better on offense, but Wallace is 10x better on defense, which in the end makes him a better player. Wallace fills up every stat column every night. And seems to block at least one easy lay up or dunk every game.

[babyj42]

i think this thought process is probably part of what is wrong with our "team"...

[dav7z]

I think thats the only two players on the team as of now thet know thair roles,. They really starting to cloment each other. You are thking two bordor line All Stars nither quite to that status so far. Both players games inproved vastly after the practics with M.J.
As for the rest of the team coach Vincent has prevented them from learning thair roles . We as a team have a hell of a lot more talent than has been shown so far this season.
I would love for M.J to menter Vincent the rest of the year in practices . So the team could inprove and coach Viecent could save face. I don't think hes compleatly stupid but has made some bad decisions in his rookie year of coaching .
One thing for sure none of those players is going to tell M.J. hell no.

[wil]

Mr. Beagleman, i think you don't get my point about playing not your natural position and in the end affecting the performance of the entire team. What i meant was if he play SF as well as when he plays PF, we wouldn't have to sacrifice size, defensive match ups and rebounding at PF every night to get the performance we want from him. That makes him inferior in a sense because in order to pump up his stats, we have to play him at the PF, so we sacrifice a lot as i mentioned. Much like related to the problem we encounter with Okafor at Center and Felton at SG. Bottom line, these 3 are undersize for their natural and comfortable positions, its different the other way around like a 7'0 Nowitzki at the SF/PF where you have the advantage in size and match ups.. :afro:

PS: I think Wallace and Okafor have been here so long that BEAGLEMAN hasn't notice it because for so long they have been the only decent talent this team has, especially with Primoz and Knight before.. Now if we start J-rich at SG and Nazr at the C, we have a problem because of these three as i mentioned, they will be off because they are not comfortable with their natural positions... Hence, we found ourselves with Jeff Mciinis as our starting PG ???..Wake up man! We are being over match every night because of these problem. Welcome to the new Age.. :afro:

[dav7z]

Wil i have to agree with you to a point . As for Wallace he can play the three or the four . Hes not holding any body back at any position . For that matter he could hold his own playing the two. Rich i think can play either the two or the three but i think hes a better three.
Hear is the part i agree with. Playing only one big and two points at the same time . That makes it hell to match up against any one.
So far OK50s game has regressed as well as Feltons game.
1st Felton problem he has no idea what his role is and hes lost his confidence. Hes trying so hard no to mess up he just plays worse.
2nd OK50 He don't have or has never been a offencive threat.
The reason you seeing his weakness more this year is hes the only big we have in most of the game. If he could play the five with a solid four beside him hes a consistant 10 and ten player . As for him playing the four i don't know if he can . I don't know if he can stay in frunt of anybody.
If we took Mcinnis out the starting lineup and put Nazr back in as a team we should be much better.
But it's no way you can blame Wallace for not being able to play the three position. Get real you know better than that.

[wil]

Davvy, If he gets play to SF again you'll see what i mean, GW won't get the rebounds, points, etc. he normally gets by playing the PF. I guess his previous carrer numbers would clearly reflect that, in fact his career never took off until he plays PF here in charlotte. This is what i meant when i said he is an inferior player in a sense because he is undersisize at his natural position.. And that is why this past offseason he didn't get a bigger contract than some of us here thought he might. This is because players like GW although with his talents and athleticism, is hard to insert in any team system due to his size and effectiveness as a SF. Bottom line one of them between Okafor has got to go inorder for us to upgrade our front line because both are suffering the same problem as previously mentioned. I think you have to know better than that man.. :afro:

[dav7z]

Wallace a imferior player . He does the same thing on offence no matter whitch position he plays. If Wallace is inferior then i want a team of inferior players.
With all the problems this team is having .I can't belive you picking Wallace as a team problem. Give me a team of of team problems like Wallace and ill win a NBA championship.

[davcbow]

I wouldnt want to get rid of neither GW or JR the way they are playing right now, they are the only 2 on the team scoring any points, get rid of one of them and we will get blown out under V's system every game.... :g:

[TheBeagle]

Mr. Beagleman, i think you don't get my point about playing not your natural position and in the end affecting the performance of the entire team. What i meant was if he play SF as well as when he plays PF, we wouldn't have to sacrifice size, defensive match ups and rebounding at PF every night to get the performance we want from him. That makes him inferior in a sense because in order to pump up his stats, we have to play him at the PF, so we sacrifice a lot as i mentioned. Much like related to the problem we encounter with Okafor at Center and Felton at SG. Bottom line, these 3 are undersize for their natural and comfortable positions, its different the other way around like a 7'0 Nowitzki at the SF/PF where you have the advantage in size and match ups.. :afro:

PS: I think Wallace and Okafor have been here so long that BEAGLEMAN hasn't notice it because for so long they have been the only decent talent this team has, especially with Primoz and Knight before.. Now if we start J-rich at SG and Nazr at the C, we have a problem because of these three as i mentioned, they will be off because they are not comfortable with their natural positions... Hence, we found ourselves with Jeff Mciinis as our starting PG ???..Wake up man! We are being over match every night because of these problem. Welcome to the new Age.. :afro:
You're right, I don't get your point, and I still don't. That is the most convoluted argument I've read in a while, and I'm not so sure you even "get" what you're saying. If I have to "wake up" to exist in your world, I'd rather snooze, and if you're in "the new Age", I'll take the old one :biggrin:

[wil]

You're right, I don't get your point, and I still don't. That is the most convoluted argument I've read in a while, and I'm not so sure you even "get" what you're saying. If I have to "wake up" to exist in your world, I'd rather snooze, and if you're in "the new Age", I'll take the old one :biggrin:


Exactly what part of GW being UNDERSIZE at PF don't you understand? I'll translate it for you then, UNDERSIZE means Smaller than Standard.

Positive:
* He plays statistically best playing PF.
Negative:
* He takes a beating and the entire team is pounded inside when he plays PF.
* He Struggles when he plays SF in Pts., Rebs. and Blk. he usually gets playing PF.
* He is being exploited by the other teams Bigger PF inside like J. Noah and J. Smith did.
* He becomes a defensive liability playing PF and when we help the opposing team perimeter guys make us pay like VC did.

Conclusion: We need him playing SF and at the same time have the same production like he plays PF..

PS: Its been a while since i encountered someone who cant understand simple english but i do hope my explanation is at the level of your comprehension.. :biggrin: :afro:

[dnbman]

In recent weeks, both guys have looked pretty invaluable. I haven't noticed Rich's defensive liabilities as much lately, and his offense has been astounding. Meanwhile, Wallace has been doing everything. The only things I could really criticize Wallace about are some of the drives he made towards the hoop that ended in a TO without him even taking a shot.

Other than that, I've been loving their games of late, even Wallace's 3 point shooting.

[TheBeagle]

Exactly what part of GW being UNDERSIZE at PF don't you understand? I'll translate it for you then, UNDERSIZE means Smaller than Standard.

Positive:
* He plays statistically best playing PF.
Negative:
* He takes a beating and the entire team is pounded inside when he plays PF.
* He Struggles when he plays SF in Pts., Rebs. and Blk. he usually gets playing PF.
* He is being exploited by the other teams Bigger PF inside like J. Noah and J. Smith did.
* He becomes a defensive liability playing PF and when we help the opposing team perimeter guys make us pay like VC did.

Conclusion: We need him playing SF and at the same time have the same production like he plays PF..

PS: Its been a while since i encountered someone who cant understand simple english but i do hope my explanation is at the level of your comprehension.. :biggrin: :afro:
[/quote]


My problem isn't with the language we are communicating in, it's in its application, namely your application of it. You start a thread stating "J Rich better than G Wallace," and you never mention "J Rich", only that "G Wallace" is "undersize." At PF Gerald is undersized, yes, but that doesn't make him an inferior player, in comparison to JRich, or in general; he excels at either forward position. Also, his stats aren't affecting to the point that you're implying they are because of a switch to PF. Give me some quantifiable data, and I'm willing to change my mind.

[wil]

You start a thread stating "J Rich better than G Wallace," and you never mention "J Rich", only that "G Wallace" is "undersize." At PF Gerald is undersized, yes, but that doesn't make him an inferior player, in comparison to JRich, or in general; he excels at either forward position. Also, his stats aren't affecting to the point that you're implying they are because of a switch to PF. Give me some quantifiable data, and I'm willing to change my mind.


I'l just ask you one simple question, when did GW's career took off?? Was it when he was with Sac when he was use as a regular SF and a big SG? Or was it here, where he predominantly plays PF? His stats improved rapidly here but the bobcats never was a winning Ball Club til now, did you noticed that? HE IS AN AWKWARD PLAYER... He will get his stats playing PF for us but will we win as a team? Is there any winning basketball system out there that would adapt his game?? All im saying is that im tired of seeing the bobcats lose. Maybe its time to Sacrifice his stats by moving/playing him as a SF and trading Okafor to get a real PF 6"10 type to upgrade our front court OR We trade him and get a typical scoring SF 6'6-6'7 type.. i think you could agree on that?? :afro: The best part, either way Mcinnis goes back to the bench!! Yahoo!!! :biggrin:

PS: Hate to say it but GW had 8 turnovers tonight, including the game turning one. That's Eight (8) turnovers.. I like his offensive numbers but as i said the team was sacrificed again.. That is why too much confusion is going on when they play and the coach turned to Mcinnis, there's too much rattling going on. That is because most of their personel has role identity crisis like okafor, felton and wallace.. and yes, the stats is right, its Eight (8) turnovers.. man thats a lot... :g:

[dvdbumpus]

I saw a stat on sportscenter tonight. It went like this: only 3 players in the league are averaging 20 pts, 5 boards, 3 assists, and 2 steals a night.

Those three players?

1. Lebron James
2. Caron Butler
3. Mr. Gerald Wallace himself

In other words, that's quite an exclusive group, and J-rich is semi-near (not hitting 20 pts or 2 steals/gm) but Crash is the better player all around.

[wil]

I saw a stat on sportscenter tonight. It went like this: only 3 players in the league are averaging 20 pts, 5 boards, 3 assists, and 2 steals a night.
Those three players?
1. Lebron James
2. Caron Butler
3. Mr. Gerald Wallace himself
In other words, that's quite an exclusive group, and J-rich is semi-near (not hitting 20 pts or 2 steals/gm) but Crash is the better player all around.


Yes Mr. Bumpus, but those two are doing it at the SF position while GW is doing it at the PF.. Means you don't have a Gooden and Ilgauscus, so Rebs. will come easy, Pts. also comes easy because he can out quick bigger PF's BUT the consequences for the bobcats of GW's good stats on our defensive end is not worth it in my opinion, which is (LOSING).. Another thing, In the case of james: gooden and Z are getting their share PLUS James so it doensn't affect their team instead it benefits the team.. Rather than GW's case where we are MINUS a PF when he gets those type of numbers.

Bottomline, if GW can hold he's own playing PF and not be a defensive and rebounding liability like C. Barkley did then its a different story, But if we get pounded everytime inside and outrebounded then i suggest we move GW to SF.. Then we'll see how GOOD he is while playing with a true PF in a line-up.. I think with a line-up of NAZR, OKAFOR, GW, JR and RAY..., JR will definitely be our go to guy and leading scorer and of course we will be winning more.. Im not saying GW will stink, he will contribute of course, BUT what im saying is
J-RICH WILL BE A BETTER PLAYER IN A REGULAR/STANDARD LINE-UP THAN GW.. :afro:

PS: Mr. Beagle, This is what i meant when i titled this blog J-rich is better than Wallace... :biggrin:

[dav7z]

Wil WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM . We are talking of two solid players . Did Wallace piss in your corn flakes or somthing.
Wallace started playing better the first year he came to Charlotte. Primoz started at the five OK started at the four and Wallace started at the three . Do you really think Wallace sucked two year ago when he played the three.
Wasn't that that the year he lead the league in steals.
But still you say he can't play the three. The only differance from him now and two years ago is his jump shot has inproved. That could only help him play the three.
As for your reasoning J Rich will be better than Wallace is rather dunb. Thats the only two players giving us stedy production.

Why not let the one thing thet works on our team along .Wallace and J Rich.

[dvdbumpus]

Wil,

In response to you saying he's doing that as a PF, well he's been playing PF for roughly the last week, but as a SF the rest of the year. Even at PF, it still proves valuable to have assists, points, steals, etc etc.

J-rich is good, Crash is more rounded. I'd rather have that.

[Mustachio]

this argument is kinda silly.

Its like asking me if id rather have an Eva Mendes lap dance or a nude Jessica Alba feed me bacon... in the end they're both great things to have.

[Chris#3]

this argument is kinda silly.

Its like asking me if id rather have an Eva Mendes lap dance or a nude Jessica Alba feed me bacon... in the end they're both great things to have.



Hmmm, I'll take the bacon. lol No but, seriously, I think might be slightly better than J-horror especially, with G-dub's improved jumpshot. I mean, did you see G-dub shot a 3 over that guy last night??

[timang]

this argument is kinda silly.

Its like asking me if id rather have an Eva Mendes lap dance or a nude Jessica Alba feed me bacon... in the end they're both great things to have.


BUT JESSICA ALBA IS FRIGGIN' PREGNANT! :cry:

why oh why...

[dvdbumpus]

this argument is kinda silly.

Its like asking me if id rather have an Eva Mendes lap dance or a nude Jessica Alba feed me bacon... in the end they're both great things to have.


BUT JESSICA ALBA IS FRIGGIN' PREGNANT! :cry:

why oh why...


Whoever knocked her up has to be doing the same thing Dave Chappelle did when he knocked up Oprah in a skit.

[timang]

this argument is kinda silly.

Its like asking me if id rather have an Eva Mendes lap dance or a nude Jessica Alba feed me bacon... in the end they're both great things to have.


BUT JESSICA ALBA IS FRIGGIN' PREGNANT! :cry:

why oh why...


Whoever knocked her up has to be doing the same thing Dave Chappelle did when he knocked up Oprah in a skit.


one lucky bastard! :mad:

[wil]

Wil WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM . We are talking of two solid players . Did Wallace piss in your corn flakes or somthing.
Wallace started playing better the first year he came to Charlotte. Primoz started at the five OK started at the four and Wallace started at the three . Do you really think Wallace sucked two year ago when he played the three.
Wasn't that that the year he lead the league in steals.
But still you say he can't play the three. The only differance from him now and two years ago is his jump shot has inproved. That could only help him play the three.
As for your reasoning J Rich will be better than Wallace is rather dunb. Thats the only two players giving us stedy production.
Why not let the one thing thet works on our team along .Wallace and J Rich.


Im just stating that J-Rich is better than GW. Because GW is too small to play PF and too slow to play SF/SG for ALL STAR standards.
NOW, if you are going to get too emotional and cry like a B*tch because you feel like you're a MAMA being forced to choose between your two children, then my sincerest apology. :biggrin: Im just stating my observation.. :afro:

[Muttley]

Man, that's really uncalled for. You want to discuss stuff about the Bobcats? Fine. That's been going on in this forum. But, it seems that you're getting pretty uptight with people who are arguing with you, and you're trying to attack them personally. That's just childish. Grow-up.

Or, you could just call me a little girl to make yourself feel better about our little disagreement.

[dav7z]

As far as this site is concerned its the BEST site you can find and discuss the Bobcats. As far as the menbers on this site we respect each other and don,t put things on a personal basis. Even if we disagree we don't resort to that kind of a post . Wil i will disagree with your openion but as far as attacking you personally . No i will not stupe to that level . I hope to have you posting and being a active part of Bobcatsplanet . But i will NOT resort to name calling to give my operion. So as far as i am concerned im done with this topic . And will not discuss it any more.

[dvdbumpus]

*Locked*