FIRE SAM VINCENT

[dvdbumpus]

As stated in the Nets game thread...I warned one and all that if they started Mcinnis that I would have officially lost faith in Vincent's decision making. I don't need to go into detail as it's obvious the reasons why.

Feel Free to state your support in having Vincent gone!

[Wallace15]

I want him gone. Get somebody in here that will utilize our talent properly and actually motivate out players.

Sam, we given you the most talented Bobcats team yet. Talented enough to make it to the playoffs and you've failed miserably at coaching us.

You whined all that time about not having a big that you could play beside Okafor and when Jordan and company finally give you what you wanted in trading for Narz you decide that Okafor is actually a 5 and that you aren't going to play them at the same time. Not to mention that your starting JEFF FUCKING MCINNIS instead of him.

SAM THIS ISN'T THAT HARD! START FELTON, RICHARDSON, WALLACE, OKAFOR AND NARZ. DON'T START MCINNIS AND ACTUALLY GIVE PT TO PLAYERS THAT DESERVE IT LIKE DUDLEY!

[CMc$]

The worse thing about Vincent is not just that he plays stupid line-ups, it's that he does them at the least appropriate time. Versus Chicago last week their coach was smart enough to go big against us and what happened? They handed our tail to us on a plate. Did we adjust our game accordingly? Not until the lead had completely evaporated, and only for a few minutes did we try to match size. This is coaching 101. If you have a glaring deficiency vs. an opponent and it can be fixed, then please, fix it.

Another gripe that I had from day one (remember 6-4? that was nice) is that V seems to have no heart. The guys can go out there and give no effort, completely blow a huge lead, and he doesn't seem to care. He never rips into them, he doesn't even look bothered by losing.

[MattD]

hes lineups are just horrendous, he will take out jrich and gerald when they are the only ones scoring and we dont have anything...
the way he pieces together the playing time just doesnt make any sense to me, he wont set up an offense that helps the team maximize potential he just runs his little baseline cut, when I get to sit close to the action, its the most boring offense to watch

he refuses to take responsibility for anything, he is a butt buddy with jeff (maybe thats too far) I dont hate jeff, but hes not a starter. He gets no respect from the players and has no motivational skills, the players hate him and when you are hated and not feared, you are never going to be successful as a coach.

just look at the players on the bench, they are up occasionally, normally the only ones are the cheerleaders ryan hollins and jeff but now with jeff starting... I think its great to support your team, but I remember in the Jazz game, when Okafor wasnt playing the last minutes, he sat there and didnt respond to anything that happened.


I think I understand now why Okafor may have refused the huge salary, and it makes more and more sense. Okafor is very very smart, I think he'd love to be getting a big paycheck, but I think he would rather be happy in a good situation. I think he's be decently happy here in Charlotte, enjoying that we've embraced him, but after preseason with the new coach, had mixed feelings, he has the option to walk away from charlotte, and I bet if Sam Vincent is still running the show or unless something drastically changes he will.

[ohara831]

Not yet. Let's look at this rationally before we let our emotions make accusations of which we may not know all the facts. We are making assumptions without knowing facts.

First, are any of us privy to the conversations with the Coach and management? No. How do we know that Sam and MJ and others have not sat around and discussed who can do what on the floor, and they ALL AGREED on the lineup? How do we know that this is Sam only? WE dont. As such, we can only argue that the players are not playing well, seem unmotivated, the Coach wil not take any blame publicly, we have underacheiving players, etc... That puts some of the blame on the players, some on the Coach and some on management.

Can we all agree we are underacheiving? Can we all agree the Coach needs to take more blame upon himself? Can we agree that some players are playing entirely unmotivated and uninspired ball? Can we point the finger at the players, Coach and Management? Yes to all questions. We just cannot say Yes to the questions for which we do not know the answers. We just cannot ASSUME too much - remember, when we ASSUME, we make an ass of u and me.

I feel your pain guys. God, how I feel your pain. Expectations were sky high, and the reality that we actually suck is really crappy. A lost season for a lost team. Someone up front has jsut got to bring in someone to run the show who is a Wizard. Honestly, I would love Jerry West to come in, and I would trust him to do whatever with the Coaching position, make whatever trades, draft whom he likes (he's a hell of a judge of talent) and sign whatever FA he feels will help. He knows basketball.

[ALong13]

He is doing terrible for us, and I agree he should be fired, give him until the end of the season, and bring in another coach to use on a high draft pick, bring in a coach with expierence, not a rookie coach, someone that will make us winners, cause this sh*t is getting old...

[bizzlecatz]

After watching the game last night. I have to agree partly with Ohara, mangement and Bernie is also the blame.

The only one of our starting five who plays their natural position is McInnis.

Crash is a better PF than SF, JRich is a better SF than SG, Mek is a better C than PF, and Felts is a combo guard. I'm thinking maybe Vincent didn't realize this, and was thinking he had an excellent PF and PG, but realize too late this is what he inherited. Does this mean Mek and Felts are underachevers. No, They were never groomed for their positions, and that's partly Bernie's fault. I'm not going to let you bash two kids because they are making millions.

As far as Vincent is concern, I am not assuming anything, I am going by what I see,and so are MattD and CMc$ it is obvious, now do I want him gone. YES! i WANT SOMEONE WHO KNOW HOW TO GET THE MOST OUT OF WHAT THEY HAVE TO WORK WITH. Isn't that part of the job. :)

[ohara831]

Bizzlecatz : I am not bashing anyone due to the money they make. I am simply saying that Okafor and Felton are only avg at best at their positions. If we have the opportunity to upgrade at each position, then we have to do it. It matters not if someone has been with us for several years, or went to out favorite college. I just want to win.

[spectre]

Every player is vulnerable if we can upgrade their position. Getting better players (esp. at the 1 & 4 or 5) is easier said than done. If you're talking draft I'd prefer not to take another wing, but in our position I don't really see how we don't go with best player available.

Jordan absolutely deserves blame for this. Since the bigger idiocy has gone on now for over a week it appears the pressure for Vincent to win NOW or else is genuine...and that's just wrong without going into the season with a more experienced PG AND taking care of scoring in the post. If he lets it continue we're going to suffer more than just this season...players are getting frustrated and bitter. The longer they go without becoming a unit the harder it's going to get.

After he made the decision to bring on Vincent we should have traded for Andre Miller at the beginning of the season. A rookie coach and a learning PG does not a good combination make. He needs an experienced leader on the court.

An easier solution is erase the mistake of bringing in a rookie coach and bringing in a coach with gravitas, who will teach...someone like Larry Brown. He can even let Vincent move to the bench and take over in a couple of years, but right now we need someone who will take over and demand respect.

[bizzlecatz]

Okay Ohara: Maybe that comment was a bit too much, but it seems as if you think they should be playing better for what they are making, and ready to trade them away for more rookies and experience vets.

The only upgrade I would trade them away for is a Superstar. Something like Boston did.

Put them on the block and see how fast another team pick them up and easy correct what the bobcats couldn't :)

I want to win now also,but this is an expansion team its going to take time. Vincent wanted to play them in their natural poistions at the beginning of the season, but realized they weren't properly groomed for it.

Spectre: you solution is best. I would like to see Vincent as an assistant in which we can groom into the position of head coach for the future also. :)

Right now this team need an expierence head coach, not a quick fix.

[davcbow]

Im for "ANYTHING" that improves our team, be it trades or firing the coach and I dont care who we lose to make things better. Something drastic needs to be done to salvage the rest of the season. If we turn it around now we could still have a chance for the playoffs but as it is right now we cant beat our way out of a wet soggy paper bag unless they are just worse off than we are..... :g:

[ohara831]

There is a reason why I would trade for draft picks. Let's take Okafor for example. I have been seeing people yell about his taking only 2 shots in the last game, and combining that with "fire Vincent" talk. Why? Does anyone beleive Sam went up to Okafor before the game and said: " Okafor, you have sucked lately, so only take 2 shots tonight. Even if you're open, no more than 2." No. The problem is with the player. Okafor has not played well or hard in WEEKS!! Even with the Hawks doing better than expected, if Phoenix would give us both the Atlanta 1st and their own 1st, I'd give them Okafor. Then, there are teams crying for a PG who can challenge for the lead PG but at least be groomed for a starter down the line. We know Felton tries, but is more of a combo guard. But there will be someone who is sure that HE is a great enough coach to bring out the greatness in Ray. There is another 1st rounder. Now, with our own which will be a Lottery for sure, the Atlanta pick which MAY be a Lottery, another which I don't know yet (depends on who takes Ray) and the Phoeniz pick which will be late 1st. That is 4 1st rounders. Suppose with our 2 highest picks we get DeAndre Joprdan and DJ Augustine. Right there you have a legitimate big time Center who will be able to grow and challenge Dwight Howard - whom we will have to deal with for the next 10 years - and a PG who is already better than Felton in the eyes of many. Read up on him, the kid is special. Then, with the other 2 picks, suppose we are in the late teens with one of them. Well, the PF Kevin Love from UCLA is expected to be there late teens. Then, with the late pick, we take the best available. Or, we take our 2nd and combine with the late Phoenix to move up 3-4 slots. From this draft, we can come put with a legit big time Center, PG and PF. Combine that with J-Rich and Crash, and I love that as a starting 5 to deal with for the next 10 years. Then, with some of the guys off the bench, including a hopefully well healed Ammo (I don't expect May back), Dudley, Davidson and maybe a Carroll with some confidence, we will be young and studly. Right now, we are young and dudly (and I don't mean Dudley).

I know many prefer to go for wiley FA veterans. But, no one is interested in playing for us until we start to show we can win. We do not have the players right not who can win. We do not. Don't blame the coach alone. It is him, management and underachieving players to blame.

J-Rich is short on defense, yes. But his offense and Crash's all round ass busting game have been the ONLY bright lights the past few weeks. I have lost faith in Ray, and lost faith in Okafor. Let me get what I can for them now before the rest of the league starts to see them for what they are really worth. Then, well be stuck with them. Yes, it is a gamble. Just like poker. You have to know when to hold em, and when to fold em. It is time to fold em, cause if we hold em, we are going to get burned.

[davcbow]

The only thing I dont like about all these draft picks is you never really know what your getting in a rookie. He may turn out like May or worse, or then again he may turn out like MJ, its always a gamble.... :g:

[bizzlecatz]

These players may have something special, but if we are not going to help them with their development, they will be avarage just like Mek and Felts.

Michael Jordan is a good example: You think the Bulls didn't have a hand in helping him become the superstar he is today, or LaBron for that matter. You want rookies that this expansion organization can't afford to develop properly right now, which would bring us back to square one over and over again.

I rather develop Mek and Felts through playing time, and a good coach who can point out and help them with their weaknesses in order for them to be successful, but you have great vision and a very well thought out plan :)

[jaxatax23]

if we had 4 draft picks then we BETTER make sure we trade up and get derrick rose...augistine is good but rose takes it to a whole nother level...think bigger chris paul with great dunking ability...i cant even imagine having him jrich an wallace running a fast break

[babyj42]

HE SUCKS FIRE HIS ASS... nothing more

[ohara831]

if we had 4 draft picks then we BETTER make sure we trade up and get derrick rose...augistine is good but rose takes it to a whole nother level...think bigger chris paul with great dunking ability...i cant even imagine having him jrich an wallace running a fast break
__________________________________________________ _

Oh. I love Rose. but he will be gone in the first 2 picks. I dont see us falling that far - yet. But dont discount Augustine. That kid has serious game and is not a bad 2nd choice at all.

[wil]

As stated in the Nets game thread...I warned one and all that if they started Mcinnis that I would have officially lost faith in Vincent's decision making. I don't need to go into detail as it's obvious the reasons why.

Feel Free to state your support in having Vincent gone!


IF YOU ARE REALLY SERIOUS AND WANT VINCENT GONE, WHY DON'T ALL OF US HERE NOT ATTEND ALL THEIR GAMES, NOT VISIT ALL THEIR SITES (INCLUDING THIS ONE), NOT LISTEN TO ALL RADIO BROADCAST, NOT WATCH ALL TELEVISED GAMES, ETC.. UNTIL THEY FIRE COACH SAM VINCENT??? :g: :afro:

[ziggy]

As stated in the Nets game thread...I warned one and all that if they started Mcinnis that I would have officially lost faith in Vincent's decision making. I don't need to go into detail as it's obvious the reasons why.

Feel Free to state your support in having Vincent gone!


IF YOU ARE REALLY SERIOUS AND WANT VINCENT GONE, WHY DON'T ALL OF US HERE NOT ATTEND ALL THEIR GAMES, NOT VISIT ALL THEIR SITES (INCLUDING THIS ONE), NOT LISTEN TO ALL RADIO BROADCAST, NOT WATCH ALL TELEVISED GAMES, ETC.. UNTIL THEY FIRE COACH SAM VINCENT??? :g: :afro:

Because regardless of how bad they are playing, I am a fan and I'm going to watch them play and attend the games when I can and gripe very loudly when they play like they have been playing lately.

Also, this site has no effect on the Bobcats bottom line, the only one that would hit them in the wallet if you chose not to visit is Bobcats.com. Boycotting their site and games isn't going to get us a new coach though in my opinion.

[davcbow]

Ticket sales $$$$$$$$$$ is where it hits. Hate to say it but thats the facts..... :g:

[dvdbumpus]

It's so frustrating to see us losing the way we do, because I love the bobcats....

[davcbow]

I know how you feel Bumpus, I do too! :g:

[TheBeagle]

Because regardless of how bad they are playing, I am a fan and I'm going to watch them play and attend the games when I can and gripe very loudly when they play like they have been playing lately.



It's so frustrating to see us losing the way we do, because I love the bobcats....
Thank god, some level-headed Bobcats FANS! Yes, this has been a frustrating season; yes, this has been an underachieving season; yes, we have many many issues bothering us right now; ulitmately though, the reason we come here to type and share our opinons is because we are Bobcats FANS!

From what I've surmised, me and ohara were the first to see where this ship was headed even before the Boston debacle. I made a list of 4 predictions back then (only 3 of which I remember now), and the basic point of those predictions was to prepare Bobcatsplanet-nation for a frustrating, disappointing, 25-30 win team (still hope I'm wrong about that, but it's looking pretty good right now). Obviously, that had no effect on you guys, because the bitterness and vitriol that has been posted on these boards has reached an unbelievable level. The reality has sunk in, and it's not pretty. But what is most alarming to me is, without naming any names, the number of you implying that you are tired of this team, and may grow so weary that you'll no longer follow this team if "something" (that great vague term that includes everything and nothing at the same time) isn't done. My message is this:

YOU AREN'T A FAN, AND YOU WEREN'T ONE TO BEGIN WITH. IF YOU WANT OFF THE BANDWAGON WE SIGNED UP FOR BEFORE THE SEASON, GET THE HELL OFF. AS FOR THE REST OF US, WE'RE GOING TO CIRCLE THE WAGONS AND PULL FOR THIS TEAM COME HELL OR HIGH WATER!

As trite as it sounds, it's nonetheless true: Winning is easy; losing is what builds character, and makes winning that much more enjoyable.

I don't know what's going to happen to this team over the course of the season (I have my guesses, though, obviously), and I don't know if they'll EVER make the playoffs (2010 or 2011 is my guess), but I'll be along for the journey however bumpy it gets, and I hope to see you there!!

[spectre]

Heh...we're Bobcats fans. Coping with losing is what we've done for the past 3 seasons!!! We've went entire months without winning a game. Kind of stupid to be bailing now.

I'd much rather watch this team lose every freaking game instead of the alternative of not having a team to watch.

[Edrow]

Is typing in all caps lock supposed to mean you are yelling through the computer?

Sweet.

-Edrow

[ohara831]

You are right Beagle. I think every one of us have become upset with this team this season. And, we all tend to let it fly when we get on a rant. Some focus their anger at mgmnt, some at the Coach, and some at the players. It does not mean that one of us loves the Cats more than another. We just have different ways of venting. However, one cannot threaten to walk away in down times. You have to have your team's back when the times are hard and support them as a franchise. We can still argue about the decisions by mgmnt, or a Coach, or a player;s hustle and desire, trades we want and draft picks we like or dont like. But we cannot walk away from the team. Remember, a team walked out on us a few years ago and that was painful. Don't walk out on the team now, or we may very well drive this one away. That would mean we all lose. I would rather watch our team struggle and have me be ranting, but keep the hope alive that we can right the ship, rather than not have a tean for which to cheer. I bet you all would, too.

[Edrow]

You are right Beagle. I think every one of us have become upset with this team this season. And, we all tend to let it fly when we get on a rant. Some focus their anger at mgmnt, some at the Coach, and some at the players. It does not mean that one of us loves the Cats more than another. We just have different ways of venting. However, one cannot threaten to walk away in down times. You have to have your team's back when the times are hard and support them as a franchise. We can still argue about the decisions by mgmnt, or a Coach, or a player;s hustle and desire, trades we want and draft picks we like or dont like. But we cannot walk away from the team. Remember, a team walked out on us a few years ago and that was painful. Don't walk out on the team now, or we may very well drive this one away. That would mean we all lose. I would rather watch our team struggle and have me be ranting, but keep the hope alive that we can right the ship, rather than not have a tean for which to cheer. I bet you all would, too.


Exactly. Hey I hate watching this team underachieve like the rest of us, but giving up on them could only help out an owner's cause to move the team, God forbid that ever happened. I'd hate to lose another freaking franchise. I'd be willing to bet that we wouldn't get another NBA team ever. We might as well order us some Palestine Pirates jerseys are something, cause we will have to root for foreign teams.

That being said, in a weird way we need so called "bandwagon" fans, in my opinion of course. If the team is getting bandwagon fans then the franchise must be doing something right. The more the merrier if you ask me. Just because a fan was loyal to the Bobs from day one, or has 8 million posts on BobcatsPlanet, doesn't make them more of a fan than Bobby Joe investment baker who decided to check em out this year. Hell, if that was the case then the arena would have (Zig sorry if I under/over estimate this) like 1,000 people in it. Then we'd really be in trouble!

Bottom line is that we are all fans of the same NBA franchise for one reason or another. So gosh darnit, let's back our guys! Remember....Nobody circles the wagons like the Buffa...oops. :biggrin:

[CMc$]

I have to say that no matter how much we lose I'll still be a fan, going to some games, and probably buying some merchandise. I love the Bobs despite their flaws.

And think of it this way: If they ever make the playoffs and perhaps make some noise in them, it will be all the more sweeter for those of us that were here during the bad times.

[Muttley]

I have to say that no matter how much we lose I'll still be a fan, going to some games, and probably buying some merchandise. I love the Bobs despite their flaws.

And think of it this way: If they ever make the playoffs and perhaps make some noise in them, it will be all the more sweeter for those of us that were here during the bad times.


Right on.

hmm... I was gonna write more, but now I'm realizing that there's nothing more really to add. So, right on.

Oh, and Go Bobcats!

[babyj42]

yeah it's not like i am pulling against us or anything... a bobcats win is like having bad sex at night (i would rather have good sex than a bobcats win)... it feels good and makes the next day seem a little more tolerable... go cats!

[ohara831]

yeah it's not like i am pulling against us or anything... a bobcats win is like having bad sex at night (i would rather have good sex than a bobcats win)... it feels good and makes the next day seem a little more tolerable... go cats!
__________________________________________________

I'm not sure I ever met a man who complained of bad sex, but I sure have heard women complain of it. Anyway, Sex and a Bobcats game are not even comparable. Now, if I got a player's paycheck after every win, now THAT"S a different matter all together.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

I'd take our first winning streak of 5 games before sex >_>

[Edrow]

"I'm not sure I ever met a man who complained of bad sex, but I sure have heard women complain of it"


That is hilarious! Yet so true!

-Edrow

[Muttley]

Anyway, Sex and a Bobcats game are not even comparable.


I dunno, after some Bobcats games I get really tired.

[davcbow]

If having sex was the playoffs then we will be virgins for a while yet under present conditions.... :g:

[MattD]

off the sex and back to the bobcats, Jeff McInnis cannot be a starter seriously, his numbers tonight are abysmal, if he starts again next game, I will official disown Vincent (whatever good that does), but in the postgame he will probably say jeff was the only one who played well... googdslgjdhskjghs i hate vincent so much now

[MattD]

lets just get the stats,

Jeff 20 minutes, 1 asisst yep NBA starting pg, 1 rebound, 2 turnovers, 2 points, 1-4 shooting

Ray 38 minutes (so far) 4-5 shooting, 4 rebounds, 10 assists, 11 points why isnt he our starting pg now? hes the best weve got... come one man

[Muttley]

lets just get the stats,

Jeff 20 minutes, 1 asisst yep NBA starting pg, 1 rebound, 2 turnovers, 2 points, 1-4 shooting

Ray 38 minutes (so far) 4-5 shooting, 4 rebounds, 10 assists, 11 points why isnt he our starting pg now? hes the best weve got... come one man


Make that 29 minutes that Jeff played with only one assist. I'm sure it was because everyone else was missing the open shots he created for them. Really, though, it doesn't take a mathematician to understand "greater than" and "less than." I was at least glad to see that Vincent didn't play Jeff AS MUCH as he played him the other night, but he was still got more PT than Oak who was the only person outside of Nazr to pull down rebounds.

[Dunk]

I heard someone calling for coach to be fired from section 220. Anyone here?

[babyj42]

i was yellin it from 210

[davcbow]

I heard someone calling for coach to be fired from section 220. Anyone here?


Thats Funny!!!





lets just get the stats,

Jeff 20 minutes, 1 asisst yep NBA starting pg, 1 rebound, 2 turnovers, 2 points, 1-4 shooting

Ray 38 minutes (so far) 4-5 shooting, 4 rebounds, 10 assists, 11 points why isnt he our starting pg now? hes the best weve got... come one man


Make that 29 minutes that Jeff played with only one assist. I'm sure it was because everyone else was missing the open shots he created for them. Really, though, it doesn't take a mathematician to understand "greater than" and "less than." I was at least glad to see that Vincent didn't play Jeff AS MUCH as he played him the other night, but he was still got more PT than Oak who was the only person outside of Nazr to pull down rebounds.


Yeah boy; lets start him..... :mad:

[TheBeagle]

Very glad to see the replies to my challenge. As far as bandwagon fans go, I agree they are necessary to any and all teams, specifically pro teams. My challenge was directed at bobcatsplanet fellas, and I'm glad to see it was taken the way it was meant, and am happy to see we loyalists are sticking together!!

As far as the sexual analogy..... :g:......I'm with ohara and Wvs: Any sex is good sex for men, eh? and I'd take a 5 game winning streak over sex: You can get sex just about any time you want it, you NEVER get a Bobcats 5 game win streak :P

[Mustachio]

Just wanted to keep this topic near the top. If Jeff McInnis sees more than 10 minutes a game... we will never be a playoff team. We are 4 against 5 on both offense and defense.

It really boggles my mind.

Today against the Bucks. Sam lost another Jrich/Crash led lead. we were up 9. insert a 2 pg system and we lose it.

Gerald had a lot of turnovers... but we should have never been in the position to lose.

Sam needs to fired.. if he doesnt win one of the next 4 games. its a tough schedule, but if he cant beat the bucks at home.. it doesnt look good.

[dvdbumpus]

5 straight wins > sex
10 straight wins > sex with 2 chicks
Playoffs > bobcats cheerleading squad
Championship > Jessica Alba (maybe)

[Fromage]

i previously said wait till all star. not after tonight.
he's killing us. players/team/fans. vincent has set this team back an entire season. inexcusable for management not to say "sorry, sam - it just hasn't worked, man."

one more time - we should have done anything for adelman.

[davcbow]

Thats why you shouldnt hire friends, because its hard to tell them to leave when it isnt going right..... :g:

[Muttley]

Yeah, in the other thread, I voted for management to sit Sam down and tell him to get the act together, but after tonight they should probably just let him go or move him to assistant or something. (I'm not sure he'd want that though, he'd probably just leave the organization altogether.)

When we were ahead of the bucks towards the end there, I thought, "well maybe Sammy will at least keep himself if not the team afloat by winning the game. But it wasn't to be.

Someone must be held accountable, and that man is Sam Vincent. It's really nothing personal at all, but thinking back, was he ever really the right man for the job? A rookie coach at this level and some younger, inexperienced players are going to somehow come together to be great? Apparently not. At the minimum, replacing him will bring change and possibly refresh and rejuvinate the players, and just maybe turn the season around. We're a far cry from the playoffs now, but I'd still like to see us win another game this season. If we can't beat the Bucks without Redd, then we'll be hard pressed to beat any other team. I don't want to see my Bobcats finish the season with sole possession of last in the division behind the frail Miami Heat.

Just let the man go now, and he may still be able to find another job somewhere else.

[Muttley]

Quote from Gerald in the Gaston Gazette (always on top of things, Bonnell)


“That (expletive) is getting old,” Wallace said after Charlotte lost 93-89 Sunday night after leading by eight with nearly four minutes to play. “We’ve got to get over that hump. But if you look at a hump long enough it becomes a hill and then a mountain. So we’ve got to do something. Me, J-Rich (Jason Richardson), Emeka (Okafor), Raymond (Felton)… we have got to find a way to get over that mountain.”

It is getting old.
However, no mention of Sam. No mention of Jeff. He knows who the "core" of the Bobcats is supposed to be and he's trying to pull them all together to overcome this obstacle of winning games. I like this guys alot. His act is completely together. It's gonna take these four playing well together to overcome the 4 on 5 basketball that we tend to play. I think a change in coaches would offer these four some relief and they would look like a whole other ball club. Or, at least the ball club we left off with last year.

[Keetch]

Exactly. Yes. Including Carroll and Nazr primarily; and then Dudley, Hollins and McInnis.

[dvdbumpus]

Quote from Gerald in the Gaston Gazette (always on top of things, Bonnell)


“That (expletive) is getting old,” Wallace said after Charlotte lost 93-89 Sunday night after leading by eight with nearly four minutes to play. “We’ve got to get over that hump. But if you look at a hump long enough it becomes a hill and then a mountain. So we’ve got to do something. Me, J-Rich (Jason Richardson), Emeka (Okafor), Raymond (Felton)… we have got to find a way to get over that mountain.”

It is getting old.
However, no mention of Sam. No mention of Jeff. He knows who the "core" of the Bobcats is supposed to be and he's trying to pull them all together to overcome this obstacle of winning games. I like this guys alot. His act is completely together. It's gonna take these four playing well together to overcome the 4 on 5 basketball that we tend to play. I think a change in coaches would offer these four some relief and they would look like a whole other ball club. Or, at least the ball club we left off with last year.


He sure summed it up. He knows who it's gonna take to win and what he as a player and a leader have to do.

[amour217]

The way we're playing right now, if we were a scent, we'd be a broccoli fart

[ohara831]

The way we're playing right now, if we were a scent, we'd be a broccoli fart
_______________________________________________

STINKY!!!!!!!!!!!

[dav7z]

Yeah, in the other thread, I voted for management to sit Sam down and tell him to get the act together, but after tonight they should probably just let him go or move him to assistant or something. (I'm not sure he'd want that though, he'd probably just leave the organization altogether.)

When we were ahead of the bucks towards the end there, I thought, "well maybe Sammy will at least keep himself if not the team afloat by winning the game. But it wasn't to be.

Someone must be held accountable, and that man is Sam Vincent. It's really nothing personal at all, but thinking back, was he ever really the right man for the job? A rookie coach at this level and some younger, inexperienced players are going to somehow come together to be great? Apparently not. At the minimum, replacing him will bring change and possibly refresh and rejuvinate the players, and just maybe turn the season around. We're a far cry from the playoffs now, but I'd still like to see us win another game this season. If we can't beat the Bucks without Redd, then we'll be hard pressed to beat any other team. I don't want to see my Bobcats finish the season with sole possession of last in the division behind the frail Miami Heat.

Just let the man go now, and he may still be able to find another job somewhere else.



Very good post REP IT UP . That sumed it up Wallace knows whats going on and he knows who the core palyers are . It didn't include Mcinnis or Sam Vincent.

[amour217]

Yeah, in the other thread, I voted for management to sit Sam down and tell him to get the act together, but after tonight they should probably just let him go or move him to assistant or something. (I'm not sure he'd want that though, he'd probably just leave the organization altogether.)

When we were ahead of the bucks towards the end there, I thought, "well maybe Sammy will at least keep himself if not the team afloat by winning the game. But it wasn't to be.

Someone must be held accountable, and that man is Sam Vincent. It's really nothing personal at all, but thinking back, was he ever really the right man for the job? A rookie coach at this level and some younger, inexperienced players are going to somehow come together to be great? Apparently not. At the minimum, replacing him will bring change and possibly refresh and rejuvinate the players, and just maybe turn the season around. We're a far cry from the playoffs now, but I'd still like to see us win another game this season. If we can't beat the Bucks without Redd, then we'll be hard pressed to beat any other team. I don't want to see my Bobcats finish the season with sole possession of last in the division behind the frail Miami Heat.

Just let the man go now, and he may still be able to find another job somewhere else.



Very good post REP IT UP . That sumed it up Wallace knows whats going on and he knows who the core palyers are . It didn't include Mcinnis or Sam Vincent.


I just hope the team does the right thing and fires Vincent before this gets ugly and makes our players look like a bunch of whiners or, God forbid, quitters

[dav7z]

My fears exactly 217 good post and welcome to Bobcatsplanet.

[Muttley]

Yeah, in the other thread, I voted for management to sit Sam down and tell him to get the act together, but after tonight they should probably just let him go or move him to assistant or something. (I'm not sure he'd want that though, he'd probably just leave the organization altogether.)

When we were ahead of the bucks towards the end there, I thought, "well maybe Sammy will at least keep himself if not the team afloat by winning the game. But it wasn't to be.

Someone must be held accountable, and that man is Sam Vincent. It's really nothing personal at all, but thinking back, was he ever really the right man for the job? A rookie coach at this level and some younger, inexperienced players are going to somehow come together to be great? Apparently not. At the minimum, replacing him will bring change and possibly refresh and rejuvinate the players, and just maybe turn the season around. We're a far cry from the playoffs now, but I'd still like to see us win another game this season. If we can't beat the Bucks without Redd, then we'll be hard pressed to beat any other team. I don't want to see my Bobcats finish the season with sole possession of last in the division behind the frail Miami Heat.

Just let the man go now, and he may still be able to find another job somewhere else.



Very good post REP IT UP . That sumed it up Wallace knows whats going on and he knows who the core palyers are . It didn't include Mcinnis or Sam Vincent.


Thanks dav7z. Welcome amour217, way to describe our situation so poetically.

[Muttley]

More chum for the sharks, from Marc Stein's power rankings:


J-Rich is finally starting to heat up, but the sense of doom is only growing for the Bobs' rookie coach with Vincent's team -- whose 12 road games to date are the fewest in the entire league -- in the midst of a 1-7 slide.

Is that doom for the coach, or doom for the team? (One would surely lead to the other, I think.)
The more it's referenced in the media, the more I sense that we actually may can him. To be honest, his firing would kinda surprise me, despite the fact that I would prefer another coach at the helm of this team. Not really sure why it would, but it would. Probably because this team still seems loath to make major changes (something I actually do understand).

[CMc$]

You know, Bernie is still part of the organization. Maybe we can beg him to come back.

I can't believe I said that.

[davcbow]

Admit it guys Bernie would be a step up maybe 2 from V's level.... :g:

[BIGCatBobcat]

Bernie is not the answer. I think Sam should have to answer for some of this stuff. Seriously, who covers the Bobcats? I listen to the post game press conference after every home game, part of a pretty decent wrap up show on 106.1 if you live within the 485 loop(another issue i have with the team). There are like 2 dudes there that underhand softball questions at him. That's it. How had could it be to get press passes to the game? Could one, or a bunch of us get in there and ask him what the hell he's thinking playing such a short rotation, a small lineup and what possibly could be going through his head when he decides to play jeff mcinnis? What could be wrong at this point with playing Jamario, Jared or Matt a bit more. I mean I know Matt gets good minutes but he needs time to heat up. Yeah, I say fire him, he's too proud to admit any mistakes or too dumb to see that they are mistakes.

[Dunk]

http://www.geocities.com/chrism4549/petarded.jpg

[davcbow]

Thats funny but I wouldnt call him retarted, he just isnt basketball coach smart.... :burp:

[TheBeagle]

Bernie is not the answer. I think Sam should have to answer for some of this stuff. Seriously, who covers the Bobcats? I listen to the post game press conference after every home game, part of a pretty decent wrap up show on 106.1 if you live within the 485 loop(another issue i have with the team). There are like 2 dudes there that underhand softball questions at him. That's it. How had could it be to get press passes to the game? Could one, or a bunch of us get in there and ask him what the hell he's thinking playing such a short rotation, a small lineup and what possibly could be going through his head when he decides to play jeff mcinnis? What could be wrong at this point with playing Jamario, Jared or Matt a bit more. I mean I know Matt gets good minutes but he needs time to heat up. Yeah, I say fire him, he's too proud to admit any mistakes or too dumb to see that they are mistakes.
This might be the biggest problem I have with him; for a first year NBA coach to come into the league and presume to do everything the correct way, and blame the losses on the players, never considering to take any blame, is a slap in the face to fans and players both. I've sort of been on the outnumbered side of giving him the year, and another offseason re-tooling session with the roster, and if he stinks it up next season, then we let him go, but his inability to make any sort of adjustment at this point is pissing me off. How long is it going to take him to figure out that his precious "small" lineup isn't getting it done, and is actually doing worse than his earlier lineups. His love of McInnis is just unnatural, as is his neglect of Jared and Jermareo. Enough is enough!

[BobCatsFanInTx]

i previously said wait till all star. not after tonight.
he's killing us. players/team/fans. vincent has set this team back an entire season. inexcusable for management not to say "sorry, sam - it just hasn't worked, man."

one more time - we should have done anything for adelman.
At the beginning of the season I was all for seeing Adelman coaching again but with the way the Rockets are underachieving I am not so sure coach Adelman would have done so great with this relatively inexperienced team. I am sure he would have done better than this idiot we have coaching us now and he would probably try to utilize Nazr in the post more but I figure Adelman would only be worth an extra 6 to 8 wins more than what we will get with Sam Vincent. We still would not likely make the playoffs.

Okafor is seeming like more and more of a liability with his flat play. He is a lazy player. When Emeka has shown some intensity he has done quite well statistically and contributed well to the team. Still he disappears for far to long a stretches during the game.

Raymond Felton has been used completely wrong so far this season and has not really been given the reigns to run this teams offense. I do think Felton makes some poor decisions but if we had better coaching he may cut down on those things.

Earl Boykins has been available and though he is a liability guarding taller players around the basket when they shoot over him he does have quick hands and can force a lot of turnovers. He is real good at penetrating and he has a solid outside shot both inside the three point parameter and outside. The only negative on Boykins is his personality and a bit of selfishness at the point. Still with him being unemployed as long as he has been he may learn to be a better locker room presence. I figure at this time we can't be hurt too bad by having him and may be a better team with him. Felton needs somebody half assed talented to push him and bring out the best in him.

Anyway, with the way things are going it wouldn't hurt to tweak this roster of ours a bit more before the trade deadline. I say we put together a package to get a quality true pg like Mike Bibby if we don't take Boykins.

[Fromage]

At the beginning of the season I was all for seeing Adelman coaching again but with the way the Rockets are underachieving I am not so sure coach Adelman would have done so great with this relatively inexperienced team. I am sure he would have done better than this idiot we have coaching us now and he would probably try to utilize Nazr in the post more but I figure Adelman would only be worth an extra 6 to 8 wins more than what we will get with Sam Vincent. We still would not likely make the playoffs.


good to see another adelman fan. but i see it this way: we'd have about 6 more wins NOW than we would with Vincent. that would be enough to have us in the fight. i truly believe that.

[ohara831]

More chum for the sharks, from Marc Stein's power rankings:


J-Rich is finally starting to heat up, but the sense of doom is only growing for the Bobs' rookie coach with Vincent's team -- whose 12 road games to date are the fewest in the entire league -- in the midst of a 1-7 slide.

Is that doom for the coach, or doom for the team? (One would surely lead to the other, I think.)
The more it's referenced in the media, the more I sense that we actually may can him. To be honest, his firing would kinda surprise me, despite the fact that I would prefer another coach at the helm of this team. Not really sure why it would, but it would. Probably because this team still seems loath to make major changes (something I actually do understand).
__________________________________________________ __

And did you read his Chat on ESPN Insider? Someone from Charlotte wrote him and asked how the Cats could spend so much $ and actually be worse than last year. His answer: Bad Decision making.

1. Spending so much on J-Rich when he was an unproven #1 option
2. Trading for and spending $ on Nazr when it was unknown whether he could play alongside Okafor.
3. Hiring an uproven coach for a young team

This is what I have been saying all along guys. It is not all about Coach Vincent and his seeming ineptitude. It is about BAD Management decisions, bad coaching and a bad group of players to call a team. Has Vincent done well? No. But, as history does records, did not the great Dean Smith have a pretty crappy first yr at UNC? Did not the fans/alumni there try to run him out of town after 1 yr? Yes, he did and they did. But good for everyone, the administration stuck with him and look where he ended up - one of the all time greats. All I'm saying here is that Sam is not doing well so far, but it is his first yr and he has a team which is not very good and management which has made some poor decisions.

Let us calmly evaluate the season at the season's conclusion. Let us calmly look at what he did with what he had, and I would like very much to see what some people like Crash and J-Rich have to say at the season's end as well. I do not like to let the inmates run the asylum, but their input should not be completely ignored. But, in my eyes, management has done a completely lousy job. That is why I would easily trade pieces I have and rebuild a team around Crash and J-Rich, with Nazr, Carroll, Dudley, Davidson and Morrison my main men off the bench. Does cleaning house also mean the Coach? Maybe. But management will decide that at the season's end.

PLAIN TALK: Right now, we have some doggie poop. You can add spices to doggie poop, but it will still be stinky doggie poop. You have to clean house, go to the store and buy groceries to create a meal worth eating. And that's the bottom line, in my humble opinion.

[MattD]

sorry but no way, who would you pick up that scores as much as richardson and does what he does for less and isnt on a rookie contract... Jrich has proven himself, he and crash are the only reason we are close in the these games, Vincent is why we blow them... Nazr proved to be a strong new option, but hey lets not play him because he can help us, lets play McInnis so that Vincent can tell them to run and not set up an efficient offense, because he doesnt know how to work with these players.... management has been good up until this disaster vincent move

[amour217]

More chum for the sharks, from Marc Stein's power rankings:


J-Rich is finally starting to heat up, but the sense of doom is only growing for the Bobs' rookie coach with Vincent's team -- whose 12 road games to date are the fewest in the entire league -- in the midst of a 1-7 slide.

Is that doom for the coach, or doom for the team? (One would surely lead to the other, I think.)
The more it's referenced in the media, the more I sense that we actually may can him. To be honest, his firing would kinda surprise me, despite the fact that I would prefer another coach at the helm of this team. Not really sure why it would, but it would. Probably because this team still seems loath to make major changes (something I actually do understand).
__________________________________________________ __

And did you read his Chat on ESPN Insider? Someone from Charlotte wrote him and asked how the Cats could spend so much $ and actually be worse than last year. His answer: Bad Decision making.

1. Spending so much on J-Rich when he was an unproven #1 option
2. Trading for and spending $ on Nazr when it was unknown whether he could play alongside Okafor.
3. Hiring an uproven coach for a young team

This is what I have been saying all along guys. It is not all about Coach Vincent and his seeming ineptitude. It is about BAD Management decisions, bad coaching and a bad group of players to call a team. Has Vincent done well? No. But, as history does records, did not the great Dean Smith have a pretty crappy first yr at UNC? Did not the fans/alumni there try to run him out of town after 1 yr? Yes, he did and they did. But good for everyone, the administration stuck with him and look where he ended up - one of the all time greats. All I'm saying here is that Sam is not doing well so far, but it is his first yr and he has a team which is not very good and management which has made some poor decisions.

Let us calmly evaluate the season at the season's conclusion. Let us calmly look at what he did with what he had, and I would like very much to see what some people like Crash and J-Rich have to say at the season's end as well. I do not like to let the inmates run the asylum, but their input should not be completely ignored. But, in my eyes, management has done a completely lousy job. That is why I would easily trade pieces I have and rebuild a team around Crash and J-Rich, with Nazr, Carroll, Dudley, Davidson and Morrison my main men off the bench. Does cleaning house also mean the Coach? Maybe. But management will decide that at the season's end.

PLAIN TALK: Right now, we have some doggie poop. You can add spices to doggie poop, but it will still be stinky doggie poop. You have to clean house, go to the store and buy groceries to create a meal worth eating. And that's the bottom line, in my humble opinion.


I agree that poor management is at the core of the problem. In my opinion, they need to stop making moves for publicity and start making moves to field a better team night in and night out. While bringing in MJ did a lot for this team's notoriety (which still stinks), everyone knows he's horrible at basketball decisions that don't involve him playing. It seems that our management succumbs easily to hype (Morrison and May), so there has to be someone in our front office who knows how to properly evaluate players and how they'll fit into our team and system. Sometimes it seems like we're run like a fantasy team ("Ooh a guard, let's take him"), which doesn't work because it doesn't take into account how the team runs.

If we hang onto Okafor, it looks like we'll be set at every position, so the draft is iffy unless we make a trade or let Emeka walk. I'd love for the Bobcats to aquire a balls-out player who will add a spark to this team, someone like David Lee from the Knicks. He's no Larry Bird, but he rebounds, runs, and plays HARD night in and night out. We do, however, have someone who can be just as good in Jared Dudley BUT the genius Sam Vincent lets him rot on the bench.

Signing coach Vincent was a terrible move by the front office because they should've known to sign someone that will help develop our youngsters. If Felton is expected to be our PG, then for God's sakes, let him run the team! How can you expect someone to take the reins of the team if he is constantly switch on and off from PG? And how can you honestly have your players respect you if you bypass more youth/talent to start one of the WORST statistical players in the whole league? Come on Sam, any bonehead can see that, so why can't you? He needed more time under Avery Johnson to learn more about coaching, and our management should've seen that.

[Keetch]

Of those chat points...I don't agree with all of them.

1. We knew exactly what we were getting for JRich and he's proving worth every dollar.
2. Nazr is a solid Center that we can play alongside OK50 in certain situations (like starting the game) and/or back him up .
3. Spot on. Vincent was an unfortunate choice as it turns out. MJ was looking for the next Avery Johnson and misfired. I was happy to give it a chance; it was a gamble. But now it appears that Sam really has no idea how to coach an NBA team or an NBA game.

I still like the core of our team very much and basically place our problems on the coach. We need 2 players....

[Muttley]

Ohara, I didn't read the Chat, but I can see where you and he are coming from.

I'll buy #3. I've made that clear, but I'm not sold on #s 1 and 2. I think Nazr and JRich have played very well.

I hate to think that management would make a decision to hire or fire someone solely based on fans' and players' opinions. That's never the right way to handle things, but they should see that this isn't working out now and won't work out in the future.

I would rather not throw the guy overboard just yet. The thing that bugs me about keeping him until the end of the year, however, is that I see how befuddled the players are now, and I don't see it getting better by the end of the season while Sam Vincent is coach. Then, what kinds of players would we have at season's end? Who knows. Possibly the doggie poop you've referenced. I've seen these players play their best and if their play is being maximized by the right coach/system, then we will have a good team when they play together. The thing that endeared me to this team is their heart and hustle. Sam's sucked that right out of them.

[spectre]

Ditto MattD, Keetch & Muttley.

Jason Richardson is averaging near 30 ppg over the last 7-8 games on around 50% shooting. Right now it's looking like the 2nd best move management has EVER done (1st being getting Crash in X-draft).

Nazr can put up a stat line when he's getting consistent minutes...he's proved that in the past and he proved it here in the 5 games or so he started. The money is well spent IF we give him the time. We make him an 18 mpg player then it was a bad deal. Since we NEED a 4/5 in the starting lineup this wouldn't be a problem until you hit point no. 3...

[ohara831]

Guys, I like J-Rich. I was stating that I would like to rebuild around Crash and J-Rich. However, for the cost, he does only provide us with one dimension - scoring. He is a major liability on defense and you see how many people we play who have players scoring 20+ against him on a night in night out basis. Even so, I like his scoring, so it is a wash to me. However, some critics in the know say that if it is a wash, then $11 mil is much too high to pay, which is what I beleive Stein was saying. I loved what Nazr did when he came here, but for some reason it send Okafor into even more of a slump than he was already in. That confuses me totally. I had not heard any talk of his being on the bench was due to his being unable to play with Okafor, but I wonder if Stein has heard this from someone on the inside? Interesting, don't you think?

[spectre]

I wasn't calling you out Ohara so much as Stein's points.  But since you brought up a wash...

Jason also rebounds, blocks about 1 shot a game and he has pretty darn good court vision.  I'm actually starting to think he has the best BBIQ of all our starters.  He also plays "average" defense with occasional lapses.  It stands out more right now because we can't play team D in order to mask the weaknesses, but ultimately we should be able to.

I don't see it as a wash by any means.  Guys like VC will match him points wise (take away JRich and VC STILL gets 30) but most others won't.  Add in the other stuff and I see a big gain.

[ohara831]

I wasn't calling you out Ohara so much as Stein's points. But since you brought up a wash...

Jason also rebounds, blocks about 1 shot a game and he has pretty darn good court vision. I'm actually starting to think he has the best BBIQ of all our starters. He also plays "average" defense with occasional lapses. It stands out more right now because we can't play team D in order to mask the weaknesses, but ultimately we should be able to.

I don't see it as a wash by any means. Guys like VC will match him points wise (take away JRich and VC STILL gets 30) but most others won't. Add in the other stuff and I see a big gain.
________________________________________________

Well, I respect your opinion here as always. We shall just have to disagree a bit on how we see J-Rich as a plus or a wash. His reb's and assts are OK, but not high enough to warrant the $ I think. I think you give him too much credit on his Defense. Anyway, that is why we are here, to express our views and discuss. I appreciate your view. Let's see how he does tonight.

[amour217]

facebook members be sure to join the "Fire Sam Vincent" group! :afro:

[babyj42]

can you get me a link for that chat?

[BobCatsFanInTx]

More chum for the sharks, from Marc Stein's power rankings:


J-Rich is finally starting to heat up, but the sense of doom is only growing for the Bobs' rookie coach with Vincent's team -- whose 12 road games to date are the fewest in the entire league -- in the midst of a 1-7 slide.

Is that doom for the coach, or doom for the team? (One would surely lead to the other, I think.)
The more it's referenced in the media, the more I sense that we actually may can him. To be honest, his firing would kinda surprise me, despite the fact that I would prefer another coach at the helm of this team. Not really sure why it would, but it would. Probably because this team still seems loath to make major changes (something I actually do understand).
__________________________________________________ __

And did you read his Chat on ESPN Insider? Someone from Charlotte wrote him and asked how the Cats could spend so much $ and actually be worse than last year. His answer: Bad Decision making.

1. Spending so much on J-Rich when he was an unproven #1 option
2. Trading for and spending $ on Nazr when it was unknown whether he could play alongside Okafor.
3. Hiring an uproven coach for a young team

This is what I have been saying all along guys. It is not all about Coach Vincent and his seeming ineptitude. It is about BAD Management decisions, bad coaching and a bad group of players to call a team. Has Vincent done well? No. But, as history does records, did not the great Dean Smith have a pretty crappy first yr at UNC? Did not the fans/alumni there try to run him out of town after 1 yr? Yes, he did and they did. But good for everyone, the administration stuck with him and look where he ended up - one of the all time greats. All I'm saying here is that Sam is not doing well so far, but it is his first yr and he has a team which is not very good and management which has made some poor decisions.

Let us calmly evaluate the season at the season's conclusion. Let us calmly look at what he did with what he had, and I would like very much to see what some people like Crash and J-Rich have to say at the season's end as well. I do not like to let the inmates run the asylum, but their input should not be completely ignored. But, in my eyes, management has done a completely lousy job. That is why I would easily trade pieces I have and rebuild a team around Crash and J-Rich, with Nazr, Carroll, Dudley, Davidson and Morrison my main men off the bench. Does cleaning house also mean the Coach? Maybe. But management will decide that at the season's end.

PLAIN TALK: Right now, we have some doggie poop. You can add spices to doggie poop, but it will still be stinky doggie poop. You have to clean house, go to the store and buy groceries to create a meal worth eating. And that's the bottom line, in my humble opinion.
I can kind of get what you are saying about Vincent but as far as the team being bad, I wouldn't go that far. Last year we were pretty good at the end of the year and we were not that bad a team. This year we added J Rich and a couple of promising rookies who should have earned more playing time than they are getting, especially when two of our players from last year are injured for the year. Neither of those two were major contributors to the late success we had last year. They probably would have contributed more this year with the way the team is set up and we may have at least four or five more wins at this point in the season. The point that I am making is that this team is more equipped to win this year than last and we are doing worse. I know the argument will be made that the Eastern Conference as a whole has improved but I say it has not improved so much that we shouldn't be more competitive and close to 500 at this stage in the season. I don't see any major front office mistakes MJ has made. AmMo may have been a minor mistake but it is too early to tell and sure now it seems we probably could have done better. Point is all general managers have miscues in the draft and on trades and FA.

Well, the only conclusion I can come to is that we probably needed a more proven coach to work with a fairly young team and that is no real knock on SV but he just is too hard headed and unable to learn quickly from coaching decisions that aren't working. Let's not knock the talent that this team has and take a broader look at the inexperience and hard headedness of SV. I am not so sure we should fire him at this point until the front office has a word with him and sees where his head is at and demand a certain goal be reached by the end of the season or he will be fired. If MJ and the front office people put some demands on him he won't get too comfortable with his job.

As I say these things the Cats are playing damn near their best game this season against the Nets. The game against the Celtics was the only other game I can say we played better and we lost that game. At the time of that moral victory I thought the confidence gained from that game would give us a lift but instead we slumped big time. I have a feeling the players got together and have owned up the their end of the deal. Now if SV will take note of the things that are going well and continue that pattern we will start winning games.

[ohara831]

OK. Since everyone was all over Sam the last couple weeks, since the Cats played a great game tonight and dominated, is everyone ready to give him a reprieve for a few games? If you are going to place blame on him for the losses, gotta give him credit for good victories. It's only fair.

[spectre]

OK. Since everyone was all over Sam the last couple weeks, since the Cats played a great game tonight and dominated, is everyone ready to give him a reprieve for a few games? If you are going to place blame on him for the losses, gotta give him credit for good victories. It's only fair.


He played Nazr a little more and Felton played the entire 4th quarter at the point.

I think that if Vincent continues with a more sane lineup and substitution pattern a lot of us would get off his back.

[Muttley]

You're right, OHara. Good job tonight Sam. I don't think tonight was a case of "winning in spite of Sam," so I'll give him some credit. I'm still gonna wait and see how we play these next 3 or 4 tough games and see how the team plays, with or without cohesion and how Vincent plays them. I'm still not buying into McInnis starting, but he was alright as a backup tonight. As you said, I'd rather see Matt start if SV wants to go small.

[Mustachio]

hell no im not off Radio's back yet.

first of all... one good game doesnt equal redemption.

second of all... Michael Jordan had a little sit down with Sammy before the game. who knows what was said. But the only clear correlation that i get from this game is.... When Jordan speaks it works. make Jordan the coach for god sakes.

[spectre]

hell no im not off Radio's back yet.

first of all... one good game doesnt equal redemption.

second of all... Michael Jordan had a little sit down with Sammy before the game. who knows what was said. But the only clear correlation that i get from this game is.... When Jordan speaks it works. make Jordan the coach for god sakes.


Really. That makes Vincent's choice of lineups even more interesting.

[Muttley]

hell no im not off Radio's back yet.

first of all... one good game doesnt equal redemption.

second of all... Michael Jordan had a little sit down with Sammy before the game. who knows what was said. But the only clear correlation that i get from this game is.... When Jordan speaks it works. make Jordan the coach for god sakes.


Really. That makes Vincent's choice of lineups even more interesting.


I'd be very interested to see MJ coach us. From what I've seen so far, he'd do well if surrounded by the right assistants.

As for what you were saying, spectre, I see it like this:

MJ tells Sammy that he's not utilizing personnel properly, and Sammy (as with the players) heeds everything MJ says. BUT, to cover the fact that MJ is telling him how to do his job, he sticks with the same starters as he has been using lately to look like not much has changed. As I recall, this only lasts for 5 minutes, though, as the Bobcats and Nets are trading baskets and/or stops through this time period. Then, Vincent subs in Carroll for Jeff (who, has anyone else noticed, kinda looks like that comedian Katt Williams who hosted the Flava Flav roast) and I can't remember, but Nazr might have come in at this point too. Hereafter, Jeff still sees some minutes (more than I'd like), even sharing the court with Raymond, but doesn't have the PG onus on his shoulders weighing as heavily as it had before.

Thanks again, MJ.

[spectre]

hell no im not off Radio's back yet.

first of all... one good game doesnt equal redemption.

second of all... Michael Jordan had a little sit down with Sammy before the game. who knows what was said. But the only clear correlation that i get from this game is.... When Jordan speaks it works. make Jordan the coach for god sakes.


Really. That makes Vincent's choice of lineups even more interesting.


I'd be very interested to see MJ coach us. From what I've seen so far, he'd do well if surrounded by the right assistants.

As for what you were saying, spectre, I see it like this:

MJ tells Sammy that he's not utilizing personnel properly, and Sammy (as with the players) heeds everything MJ says. BUT, to cover the fact that MJ is telling him how to do his job, he sticks with the same starters as he has been using lately to look like not much has changed. As I recall, this only lasts for 5 minutes, though, as the Bobcats and Nets are trading baskets and/or stops through this time period. Then, Vincent subs in Carroll for Jeff (who, has anyone else noticed, kinda looks like that comedian Katt Williams who hosted the Flava Flav roast) and I can't remember, but Nazr might have come in at this point too. Hereafter, Jeff still sees some minutes (more than I'd like), even sharing the court with Raymond, but doesn't have the PG onus on his shoulders weighing as heavily as it had before.

Thanks again, MJ.


That's pretty much how I see it Muttley...or else it's one of the biggest coincidences ever.

[MattD]

MJ for coach, Ive been predicting it, its gonna happen unless he leaves, ditch Vincent, hes a joke!

[Dunk]

It's one game. If they make an 8-2 run over the next 10 games I'll be the first person to say maybe I was a little rash.

[davcbow]

Im gonna take it game to game for now..... :g:

[ohara831]

OK. How about now? We took down the Celtics in Boston. Will you cut him some slack now?

[babyj42]

FIRE RADIO!!! All he did tonight was raise expectations!!! Now we know how we can play!!

[ohara831]

FIRE RADIO!!! All he did tonight was raise expectations!!! Now we know how we can play!!
__________________________________________________ ____

How about we fire you? Oh well, just in fun! He aint that bad.

[MattD]

If Vincent is MJs puppet and does and listens to exactly what Jordan says, then maybe I'm ok with him staying on for the rest of the year... because MJ must have done something to shift the way we are playing a little bit or else Vincent is getting smart, and me drawing a beard on his face and writing stupid across his massive forehead was wrong...

If so, then I am sorry, the first 30 games of the season have been painful with you under control, but if you are learning, and will play NAZR more (he played sick sick sick tonight)
I will take time to start to look for the upsides, to give respect, but you havent gotten anything yet vincent...

Alright now I am really jumping the gun, but who can see another GS type thing, 1 vs. 8 upset? Can I dream :biggrin:

[amour217]

If Vincent is MJs puppet and does and listens to exactly what Jordan says, then maybe I'm ok with him staying on for the rest of the year... because MJ must have done something to shift the way we are playing a little bit or else Vincent is getting smart, and me drawing a beard on his face and writing stupid across his massive forehead was wrong...

If so, then I am sorry, the first 30 games of the season have been painful with you under control, but if you are learning, and will play NAZR more (he played sick sick sick tonight)
I will take time to start to look for the upsides, to give respect, but you havent gotten anything yet vincent...

Alright now I am really jumping the gun, but who can see another GS type thing, 1 vs. 8 upset? Can I dream :biggrin:


And if he doesn't start Nazr next game, he's a certifiable DeeDeeDee

I'm waiting for the 'Cats to put together a good string of games before I eat crow on this issue.

[ohara831]

As bad as it has been, we are only 4 games out of 8th place so for. The two teams in 7th and 8th are .500. Atlanta is one of them. We can make up the ground IF we play like the last two games for a while.

Why the hell is Okafor still missing? I dont get it. Nazr should start and Okafor come off the bench. Maybe we should start a Thread on that issue?

[MattD]

As bad as it has been, we are only 4 games out of 8th place so for. The two teams in 7th and 8th are .500. Atlanta is one of them. We can make up the ground IF we play like the last two games for a while.

Why the hell is Okafor still missing? I dont get it. Nazr should start and Okafor come off the bench. Maybe we should start a Thread on that issue?


see the thread emeka who?that i made... I was about to post on it... I agree it happens in all of our late games, he disappears

[Fromage]

sam earned himself a reprieve. lucky for his ass.
but tonight proves: nazr should be starting.
sam's lineups are awful. but good wins (just 2, lets not get too excited).

[amour217]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/amour217/Radio.jpg

[davcbow]

:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :cheers1: :burp:

[MattD]

heres what i would like to say... Sam Vincent, I still don't know about you... but the players have come together, maybe they are finally getting used to you... now we need to keep up our play, if we start to tumble, it wont be because of our talent or our desire, it will be you... for now, I think we are doing well...

who wants to say good job sam? Nice couple games behind us, good playing, good heart

[davcbow]

My my how things look differently in just 2 weeks time. I say the verdict is still out on Sam right now but he is looking better with his decisions and he has been getting the right people in the game at the right time and it all seems to be working out for everybody, take away those 2 bad calls by the refs and we could be 16-21 right now in stead of 14-23. The respect will come and Sam did the right thing by voicing his thoughts on the call to the media and the league office. "Its all starting to come together" like the coach says in the movie "Major League"...... :g:

Go Bobcats!!!!!!

[MattD]

yeah... i think your correct

[ohara831]

It is like when we were voting. Give him the season to see how the team responds, then mgmnt makes a decision. Although, I think he honestly has another yr coming without question. He did lose 2 major players before the season started and he is MJ's guy.

[Muttley]

Having seen that these guys CAN play well (and boy have they played well lately), I feel pretty comfortable putting most of the blame/credit on Vincent for our failures/successes. Recently, he's been on my good side, and I absolutely support him for the Techs he's earned lately and for how he called out the refs. Protect your players and show them that you want success for them. He's done that lately.

[BIGCatBobcat]

I'm not taking back anything I said about him. It's all still there. He is still a weak coach that actually thinks Jeff McInnis is a starting PG in the NBA.

[dvdbumpus]

I'm not taking back anything I said about him. It's all still there. He is still a weak coach that actually thinks Jeff McInnis is a starting PG in the NBA.


The last time he was competent was playing with Lebron in 03-04. For a stretch of 30 some games he averaged 7 assists and only 1.8 TO's. He also had somewhat of a capability to score and defend. Too bad it was because Lebron made him better and was only for 30 games.

Vincent must be living in those days...and even then I still thought he sucked.

[Fromage]

I'm not taking back anything I said about him. It's all still there. He is still a weak coach that actually thinks Jeff McInnis is a starting PG in the NBA.


i hear ya. my, how the streak has changed things.

[Mustachio]

I really dont think this recent streak of great play has anything to do with Sam Vincent. I think if Sam has done one good thing this year... its getting out of Gerald Wallace's way as he streaks towards stardom.

Any coach who plays Douche more than 10 minutes a game and as anything more than a backup to Felton... is a bad coach. we play 3.5 on 5 basketball night in and night out, (Felton is only half productive as a SG and McInnis does nothing but slowly bring the ball up or turn it over.) and we still win. Imagine if the lineups were better, this team would be hovering around .500.

Sam, get out of the way.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

I really don't understand the man love for Mcinnis.

[ohara831]

Let's be fair to the man. He is only a first yr Coach and there is a huge learning curve. He was also dealt the hand of losing 2 of his major contributors before the season started. But, what thing is clear. The guys are playing the games all the way through and never taking time off or quitting a game. There is a hustle now that was missing the first month and a half. Whether MJ's speech or practice session had any impact of not, I do not know. But a Coach takes the blame for losses and should get some of the credit for the wins.

We are only 1.5 games out of 8th and 3 games from 7th. We have a winnable game tonight vs Philly. I know the road trip at the end may kill us, but Sam has them playing good ball and has instilled some inspiration in them to have them playing well the vew weeks.

*I don't understand that crazy 2 PG lineup and would love to have Ray start and Nazr start also. But, crazy as it seems, our winning really started after Coach put Nazr to coming off the bench rather than starting. Just a coincidence? I don't know, but that somehow seems to have created some type of "mental" surge which leads us to playing better. Honestly, it confounds me, but the numbers don't lie. Since the Nazr trade and we stopped starting him and let him come off the bench, we have been winning more and competing better. Even our 2 OT losses the other week.

All I know is he is a first timer, and he has this team playing better and in Playoff contention. In my humble and sometimes controversial opinion, he has earned a break from us and deserves our support.

[BIGCatBobcat]

All I know is he is a first timer, and he has this team playing better and in Playoff contention. In my humble and sometimes controversial opinion, he has earned a break from us and deserves our support.

first timer or not, I'm not supporting anyone, Phil Jackson, Red Auerbach, John Wooden, no one who things Jeff McInnis is a viable starting PG on an NBA team.

[Mustachio]

All I know is he is a first timer, and he has this team playing better and in Playoff contention. In my humble and sometimes controversial opinion, he has earned a break from us and deserves our support.

first timer or not, I'm not supporting anyone, Phil Jackson, Red Auerbach, John Wooden, no one who things Jeff McInnis is a viable starting PG on an NBA team.


plain and freakin simple right there. It doesnt matter if he is a first year coach or an 18 year veteran. If you put Jeff McInnis as the starting point guard ... you dont get any kind of free pass.

[Mustachio]

BUMPED because we lost a crucial game to a terrible team at home.

way to go radio!

[spectre]

If so inclined someone can make a new thread out of this:

Philadelphia 103, Charlotte 96 - Yahoo (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=AgF7cqlNh9Kn1W4xMRxE15K8vLYF?gid=200801 2630&prov=ap)

Just a few feet away from Cheeks, Bobcats first-year coach Sam Vincent had a much different message. He ripped his backup point guard and accused his players of not fighting hard enough.

"The coaching staff cares an awful lot about winning, but the guys on the floor have to care about winning more than the coaching staff," Vincent said after the Bobcats shot 40 percent. "We need that fire. We need that passion from the players. We need them to really want to win."

Jason Richardson, who scored 35 points, seemed stunned when told of Vincent's comments.

"Oh my goodness. I'll take any one of these guys on the team, night in and night out," Richardson said. "We play hurt. We play with no rest. I don't understand where that came from. We play passionate all the time. I don't know if it's frustration by him, but I don't understand it."

Without point guard Raymond Felton, who turned his left ankle a night before in a win in Chicago, Jeff McInnis ran the point. McInnis had four points on 2-of-5 shooting, and Vincent didn't like what he saw, playing him only four minutes in the fourth quarter.

"They were really sagging off Jeff and they were really trying to help on other people," Vincent said. "Whenever they do that, it makes it tough because now you're playing four on five."

That, too, brought an angry response from McInnis.

"I guess I missed a shot or two. I guess I can't play if I miss a shot," McInnis said.

It should make for an interesting five-hour flight to Los Angeles on Sunday, as the Bobcats prepare to begin a five-game trip while holding a 3-13 road mark.

[Shrimpy_Jackson]

Sounds like a man who's worried he's about to lose his job to me. I always try to defend him in my head and tell myself that he's just learning the ropes and all that, but let's be honest, he was hired waaaaaaay too early in his coaching career and that was just a mistake by Jordan. What I don't understand is, his crazy approach. If you realize that something's not working and you're a young coach with Michael Jordan above you and a team full of gritty players that want to win and play scrappy, wouldn't you change it up a bit? Wouldn't you devise some kind of strategy to dare I say get the most out of your team? And what is with these stupid comments he makes about the team not playing with a passion, I obviously couldn't see the game last night so if there was a distinct lack of passion someone please tell me, but as far as I can see the teams been trying to win despite his obvious faults as a head coach and instead of adapting he's just pissing people off. As you can tell by this rant I'm starting to rethink my "be nice to the new guy" approach. We're only 2 games out of the playoffs at this point in the season so by no means is this a lost cause, but something's got to happen soon. Someone's got to turn that fucking light bulb on in their head or we're all going to be mighty pissed by the end of the season.

Rant complete.
Shrimp Shrimp

[spectre]

Crash said on the official site that they were just worn out (which JSwish said in the above article). Go figure...wonder if that has anything to do with Vincent playing them 40 per night and only going with a halfhearted 7 man rotation.

What truly pisses me off is he's throwing this crap out in the media. Listen asshole...the players have credibility; you do not. I don't even like that he threw McInnis under the bus like he did. Seriously, did he not realize we're playing 4 on 5 EVERY TIME McInnis is on the freaking floor??? He's the idiot that put him in the starting lineup.

Expect us to go on a losing streak out west. The players' contempt is pretty obvious and they won't give their all for this POS.

[Edrow]

So what next, does he canned by the all star break?

[Shrimpy_Jackson]

I don't even like that he threw McInnis under the bus like he did. Seriously, did he not realize we're playing 4 on 5 EVERY TIME McInnis is on the freaking floor??? He's the idiot that put him in the starting lineup. (Sorry boned up the quote process this is from Spectre's post a few up)


Yeah man that's dead on. First off the man doesn't have the brains to realize that McInnis is essentially a waste and is also stunting the growth of Felton? And then to have to immediately go out and give the guy shit for doing something he does every single night he's out there, it's ridiculous. It's his fualt he's put him in the situation becuase I do think that McInnis would be a fine sub for Felts which would allow us to have J-rich at the 2 and wallace at the 3 where they obviously play better from the stats I've seen (May be wrong though please correct me if so I've started early today since there's no football) I know that people in the NBA are far more knowledgeable than me, poor Shrimpy Jackson, but numbers don't lie and it seems like Vincent may just be a bonehead.
Does it also say something that he had to purchase a basketball team in order to get into coaching? I was rather skeptical at first at his hire but I thought he might bring a fire to the team instead of just putting them down in ridiculous situations that are mainly caused by himself. I honestly don't think he should be kept on past the All star break and I never ever agree with doing that. But I think this team can make the playoffs, I think the players are growing weary of his crazy babbling and I think if Jordan wants to actually prove to people that he is capable of running a basketball team he needs to cut his losses admit to his mistake and find someone more suitable coach wise. I'm not sure who all is available but I've heard mention of Paul Silas and although I didn't really have much of an opinion on him, I think he's capable of gelling our crew, putting them in a good rotation and at getting the most out of him. Especially since it seems that our guys are starting to question Vincent. I feel that a new coach especially one like him would do wonders for us and give them a jolt that they so desperately need. I'd also like to see Jordan more interactive, look how they responded after he came around, and I remember him saying if they react positively to it he'd do it more, but I haven't heard anything about him following up on that. I think I'm more worried about our horrible inconsistency than anything else, if we can somehow manage to pull 2 out of 3 games on a consisten basis instead of kicking ass and falling flat then this team is definitely going to hit the playoffs and I feel with a change that might be possible, especially if we find a good motivator who believes in the squad and lets them know that you just can't lose your grittiness and you've just got to understand how close you are to achieving what you've set out to do. Instead of being nonsensically ripped.

Rant 2 complete
Shrimp

[dnbman]

Vincent definitely shouldn't have said that about McInnis for all of the reasons already mentioned.

Although, the McInnis was especially bad last night. I just don't think we can expect big minutes from him. He looked tired towards the end, having trouble getting the ball across the court at times.

In Sam's defense (of his losing, not his comments), it's awfully tough when management gives you McInnis and DA as backup pgs. We're at a significant disadvantage when we don't have Felton available. For his deficiencies, he's a guy who can push the ball, keep the defense guessing, and provide speed on the offensive end. He also requires a defender, which McInnis didn't last night. It was astonishing how little Phily covered him on the offensive end.

Basically, as much as we could use a coaching change, I don't think we can do that to Vincent until we get another pg in there.

But, man... Vincent blasting his guy who's playing short handed. I don't know.

Lovers quarrel?

[Wallace15]

I don't even like that he threw McInnis under the bus like he did. Seriously, did he not realize we're playing 4 on 5 EVERY TIME McInnis is on the freaking floor??? He's the idiot that put him in the starting lineup. (Sorry boned up the quote process this is from Spectre's post a few up)


Yeah man that's dead on. First off the man doesn't have the brains to realize that McInnis is essentially a waste and is also stunting the growth of Felton? And then to have to immediately go out and give the guy shit for doing something he does every single night he's out there, it's ridiculous. It's his fualt he's put him in the situation becuase I do think that McInnis would be a fine sub for Felts which would allow us to have J-rich at the 2 and wallace at the 3 where they obviously play better from the stats I've seen (May be wrong though please correct me if so I've started early today since there's no football) I know that people in the NBA are far more knowledgeable than me, poor Shrimpy Jackson, but numbers don't lie and it seems like Vincent may just be a bonehead.
Does it also say something that he had to purchase a basketball team in order to get into coaching? I was rather skeptical at first at his hire but I thought he might bring a fire to the team instead of just putting them down in ridiculous situations that are mainly caused by himself. I honestly don't think he should be kept on past the All star break and I never ever agree with doing that. But I think this team can make the playoffs, I think the players are growing weary of his crazy babbling and I think if Jordan wants to actually prove to people that he is capable of running a basketball team he needs to cut his losses admit to his mistake and find someone more suitable coach wise. I'm not sure who all is available but I've heard mention of Paul Silas and although I didn't really have much of an opinion on him, I think he's capable of gelling our crew, putting them in a good rotation and at getting the most out of him. Especially since it seems that our guys are starting to question Vincent. I feel that a new coach especially one like him would do wonders for us and give them a jolt that they so desperately need. I'd also like to see Jordan more interactive, look how they responded after he came around, and I remember him saying if they react positively to it he'd do it more, but I haven't heard anything about him following up on that. I think I'm more worried about our horrible inconsistency than anything else, if we can somehow manage to pull 2 out of 3 games on a consisten basis instead of kicking ass and falling flat then this team is definitely going to hit the playoffs and I feel with a change that might be possible, especially if we find a good motivator who believes in the squad and lets them know that you just can't lose your grittiness and you've just got to understand how close you are to achieving what you've set out to do. Instead of being nonsensically ripped.

Rant 2 complete
Shrimp


That's the thing. JORDAN is that guy, the motivator. Everytime he's came and talked to the team we've responded by putting a couple of wins together. So if Jordan would come talk to them about 3 times a week(Hell, I'd want him to talk to them EVERYDAY!) then that would boost our teams confidence greatly.

[MattD]

new thread time... team chemistry

[BIGCatBobcat]

I was listening on the radio to Radio talk about Jeff and the 4 on 5 thing. I can't believe he said that....eventhough it's true. I was amazed that just now he's realizing it. Last night was Mo Cheeks, a good coach with a bad team, and Sam Vincent, a bad coach with a pretty good albeit shorthanded team. Who came out on top? The good coach because he tried what he wanted, some of it worked some didnt, saw what the other team was doing and adjusted, came back and then stretched out the lead.
All I can think is that we've all been saying what the coach and team are saying now for about a month. They're all too close to see the forest for the trees, we have been watching all this go on and on and now it's come to a head. How they will react.....who knows?

Just a note: I hope all this doesn't overshaddow the screw job we took by the refs. But that really is just another knock against ol' Radio. A real coach would get kicked out of the damn game if all the calls were going the other way.

[davcbow]

What if we did get a new coach? We would still have the same up one night down the next squad of players (dont get me wrong I love these guys), he would have to be a great motivator. Now would this new coach have a different line up or would he end up playing the same line ups because of the talent we have left and not on the injured list. I really think that RV went to war missing a few key weapons (morrison & may). Thats like being in a war on the battle field and the tanks never show up or air support dont show up, meaning youre gonna lose the battle. I think we should just bear with it this season and then judge once he has all his weapons back... :g:

[MattD]

What if we did get a new coach? We would still have the same up one night down the next squad of players (dont get me wrong I love these guys), he would have to be a great motivator. Now would this new coach have a different line up or would he end up playing the same line ups because of the talent we have left and not on the injured list. I really think that RV went to war missing a few key weapons (morrison & may). Thats like being in a war on the battle field and the tanks never show up or air support dont show up, meaning youre gonna lose the battle. I think we should just bear with it this season and then judge once he has all his weapons back... :g:


I have to disagree. Vincent is killing the team by the negative chemistry he brings to the table. Our nukes are there, Jrich and Gerald. Any good coach could get them to win us .500. They are great players, and with little weapons like matt carroll who you can pick and pop, this team has so much potential, but he doesnt know how to utilize it.

If you have a rocket but cannot get it to shoot, what good is it in the battle? None. Sean May and Ammo are not individually good enough to have pushed this team much further. I don't even what Ammo on our team next year, hes a joke an NBA player that smokes. He is horrendous on D and streaky on offense. Ultimate scrub. Why couldnt we have picked RUDY? O well. Vincent is just another problem on the list

[ziggy]

Sam Vincent is never going to gain the respect and loyalty of his players if he repeatedly continues to throw his players under the bus in the media. At some point the players are going to give up on him completely ( if they haven't done so already ).

Also, I have a bad feeling about this upcoming 5 game road trip. If it turns out ugly they could wind up being 14 or 15 games under .500 after that trip. Maybe that'll be enough to make them start considering the need to make a coaching change.

[Dunk]

It's probably too early for a change. But great coaches only, if ever, use the media to motivate players. And only certain ones. Maybe Jeff will respond to that. Clearly, Crash and J-Rich play their ass of every night.

[amour217]

MJ needs to be a man, admit his mistake, and fire Sam Vincent.

Sam Vincent is not the next Avery Johnson...heck if anything he's the next Tim Floyd. He's a horrible coach, his players don't listen to him, he's terrible with the media (i.e. throwing his players under the bus or saying the team isn't good enough).

The Bobcats need someone ESTABLISHED to lead them. Bernie Bickerstaff was an established coach, who turned around the Washington Bullets back in the day and took the reins of this team and got the BEST out of them. Now that he's moved on, we need to find someone with experience and motivation. Look at what Hubie Brown did with a young Memphis team his first couple seasons. It can be done if we look for the right person. The Bobcats need someone who is creative, yet can teach fundamentals, teach maturity, and chew into the team when they need it...directly, not through the media.

Sam Vincent is a joke, pure and simple. He needs to be fired before we're turned into the laughingstock of the NBA, especially if MJ continues to make moves like he did in Washington.

[MattD]

MJ's biggest mistake so far has been signing Vincent, other then that, hes pretty good in my book. Hopefully he will talk to mek so we can figure out whether we should resign him, and not give him to much money, and then he can ditch Vincent and we will be a pretty good team.

[dav7z]

Vincent not management wanted Mcinnis ., REMRMBER Vincent saying after playing and practicing with Mcinnis, that he would be a great team leader and back up to Felton. Thats why management signed him.Vincent has goten ever thing hes ask for. First a scorer so M.J, signed one in J.Rich. Second Vincent wanted to keep the team toghter so M.J resigns Wallace to 57 milion. Third Vincent says his five is not producing so M.J trades for a nice five in Nazr.
Then MJ. practices with the team after a long loosing streak and and the very next game they look like a different team.
Another loosing streak and a pep talk from M.J. changes things again.
After all this this dude has the balls to Blame the players in frunt of the media.
I have yet heard him take the blame for ANY loss.Im not the smartest guy in the world but i even know hes responable for at least seven of our loses due to his stupid coaching.He sure as hell don't blane his self.
Another great move after a loss you responable for coach V,You through your Stars in the craper . Even you throughing Mcinnis, in the craper pisses me off.

We have to make a trade or add a player befor the trade deadlind. And M.J. is going to have to force that dumb ass to extend his rotation. With all the road games coming up.
Or one of our stars is going to have a major injery or somthing.

[Muttley]

When they interviewed Jeff and asked him about what Sam said, and he sounded so sad to the point that I even felt a little bit sorry for him. He really didn't seem to know what to say and said as much. I mean, Jeff isn't putting himself in the game all the time. It's not that he doesn't try, but he doesn't have the talent to be a starter. However, NO PLAYER at this level would decline playing time (or they don't have the confidence to play at this level). This is on Radio (I need an angrier nickname, that one's too funny).

I really think Matt's summed it up perfectly here and in the Chemistry Thread.
I'll be interested to see what changes occur to the line-up on Monday.

Hopefully, though, the biggest change is Sam's dismissal. Make it happen MJ.

[CMc$]

When they interviewed Jeff and asked him about what Sam said, and he sounded so sad to the point that I even felt a little bit sorry for him. He really didn't seem to know what to say and said as much. I mean, Jeff isn't putting himself in the game all the time. It's not that he doesn't try, but he doesn't have the talent to be a starter. However, NO PLAYER at this level would decline playing time (or they don't have the confidence to play at this level). This is on Radio (I need an angrier nickname, that one's too funny).

I really think Matt's summed it up perfectly here and in the Chemistry Thread.
I'll be interested to see what changes occur to the line-up on Monday.

Hopefully, though, the biggest change is Sam's dismissal. Make it happen MJ.


I don't think anyone here at Bobcats Planet has an aversion to Jeff, we just don't want him playing the minutes he gets.

And I think the most telling thing about Radio's crazy rants, is that they are never at the appropriate party or at the appropriate time. I've never seen him dig into the players during game time. We can be getting schlacked and he is mr. cool and collecting, on the bench, about to fall asleep. I like to see fire in my coach and I've always felt he was lacking in that department.

[Keetch]

It seems the past few weeks that Sam actually has been getting emotionally involved. It's just recently though. I've seen him grill a few of the players pretty hard.

Watching him do that to Emeka Okafor was a little funny though. Mek just looked at him with dead eyes. He's probably thinking "Dude, just don't go there" lol.

[davcbow]

Forest Gump?

[amour217]

He's gotten so bad, I feel like calling him XM Satellite Radio

[CMc$]

Maybe Emilio Estevez is available . . . I know he's just an actor, and i know the mighty ducks played hockey, but at least we could get a swell chant that all the guys could do on the court and maybe the "flying v" on the court.

just a thought.

[Mustachio]

I havent seen one shred of evidence that Sam has been a good coach, will be a good coach or even a decent assistant.

His offensive scheming is terrible. His motivational abilities are lacking to say the least. His rotation is laughed at by the special kids, and hes not even charming. Its one thing to suck, but to suck and not even be likeable... come on man. Its time for him to go.

I echo what others said. I dont hate Jeff McInnis. I hate his role on this team right now. He is not a starter. Any coach who plays him in that role is not an NBA coach.

Maybe the dreds are throwing him off. Maybe he is flipping back to his time as a womans coach and he just starts him for his long hair.

[dvdbumpus]

I havent seen one shred of evidence that Sam has been a good coach, will be a good coach or even a decent assistant.

His offensive scheming is terrible. His motivational abilities are lacking to say the least. His rotation is laughed at by the special kids, and hes not even charming. Its one thing to suck, but to suck and not even be likeable... come on man. Its time for him to go.

I echo what others said. I dont hate Jeff McInnis. I hate his role on this team right now. He is not a starter. Any coach who plays him in that role is not an NBA coach.

Maybe the dreds are throwing him off. Maybe he is flipping back to his time as a womans coach and he just starts him for his long hair.



Haha on the hair thing. I also agree with you on the rest...

[davcbow]

Maybe Emilio Estevez is available . . . I know he's just an actor, and i know the mighty ducks played hockey, but at least we could get a swell chant that all the guys could do on the court and maybe the "flying v" on the court.

just a thought.


Quack quack quack :biggrin:

[Edrow]

Screw that noise, is the drunk guy from the original Bad News Bears available? If this season is going to be a waste then the Bobcats might as well fight as many other teams as possible.

-Edrow

[amour217]

We should bombard the team with some "Fire Vincent" emails

[dav7z]

Players starting to turn on Vincent . Its starting to get ugly. Should be a insteresting second half of the season . I tkink M.J is about to step in and stop this madness.
Your thoughts.

http://www.charlotte.com/bobcats/

[Dunk]

Screw that noise, is the drunk guy from the original Bad News Bears available? If this season is going to be a waste then the Bobcats might as well fight as many other teams as possible.

-Edrow



http://obits.eons.com/obits/tributes/walter_matthau/1655-3-photo.jpg


Those free throws were hard, Okafor! Sun was in your eyes!

[Muttley]

Damn Dunk, beat me to it!

For the record, I'd take Matthau over Estevez, and he died in 2000... might even take him over Vincent.



He's gotten so bad, I feel like calling him XM Satellite Radio


How about going the other direction time-wise and calling him "Victrola" or something.

Up until his recent tiff with Jeff (is tiff girly enough? perhaps I should call it a spat) I was ready to christen the two "McInnradio" or "VincInnis" in the same vein of Brangelina or whatever the kids are calling those two nowadays.

[amour217]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/amour217/NotListening.jpg

[ReesieNCPantherCatfan1]

I was listeneing to 610am this morining and they were talking about the bobcats and Vincent in particular. The pac man (or whoever was on at about 10 am) was saying that Vincent has lost the team, that no one gives him respect. Pacman brought up an interesting point that I did not know (if true). When we interviewed Stan Van Gundy he was willing to use Vincent as his lead assistant as it was obvious that MJ really wanted the guy. Packer said Van Gundy would play the role of mentor and hand the team over to Vincent in a couple of years. That would have been much better to get sam some more time and experience before taking over. Also I think an quality, experienced coach is good for at least 5-10 more wins year. Sam may be a good coach some day, but that day is not today.

[amour217]

I was listeneing to 610am this morining and they were talking about the bobcats and Vincent in particular. The pac man (or whoever was on at about 10 am) was saying that Vincent has lost the team, that no one gives him respect. Pacman brought up an interesting point that I did not know (if true). When we interviewed Stan Van Gundy he was willing to use Vincent as his lead assistant as it was obvious that MJ really wanted the guy. Packer said Van Gundy would play the role of mentor and hand the team over to Vincent in a couple of years. That would have been much better to get sam some more time and experience before taking over. Also I think an quality, experienced coach is good for at least 5-10 more wins year. Sam may be a good coach some day, but that day is not today.


Wow, if that's true, we made a HUGE blunder not making a hard push for Stan Van Gundy

[Mustachio]

just for good measure.

Fire Sam Vincent.

[amour217]

I'm gonna make some "Fine Ham Biscuit" shirts and sell them outside the arena next game :g: :D

[bizzlecatz]

I'm not calling for "Radio's" head today, for once he is right, but he went about it the wrong way. We didnot play with the same passion we played with against Chicago, I could also see we were very tired, but the biggest problem was the hole in our backcourt, which you could see from Mars, and Mo Cheeks took advantage of it.

Jeff Mcinnis can play some deffense, and we need him to step it up tonight. It's the only way I can see us winning.

Crash and Mek are going to have their hands full with Kaman and Thomas. Like it or not Jeff is the backcourt tonight.

Let's go Cats!

Make me proud.

[Muttley]

I'm not calling for "Radio's" head today, for once he is right, but he went about it the wrong way. We didnot play with the same passion we played with against Chicago, I could also see we were very tired, but the biggest problem was the hole in our backcourt, which you could see from Mars, and Mo Cheeks took advantage of it.

Jeff Mcinnis can play some deffense, and we need him to step it up tonight. It's the only way I can see us winning.

Crash and Mek are going to have their hands full with Kaman and Thomas. Like it or not Jeff is the backcourt tonight.

Let's go Cats!

Make me proud.


I'm pretty sure Kaman's not 100%, but he has been having a career year. Definitely something to watch out for.

Back on subject...
From what I've been reading, in agreement with what some of you have said, the team is not going to listen to Sam for much longer if they even still are. The biggest evidence of this is Jason's reaction to Radio's post game comments.
This is a team that will stand by each other and choose one another over the coach. That's a good thing! That's a great thing, even! That is, so long as the coach doesn't do what Radio's doing now, which is dig a trench between he and the team, then you will have great chemistry and the team can play well.
This begs the question, if you are the owner of a basketball team (or are part-owner/head-of-basketball-operations-whatever), and your team isn't listening to the coach anyway, then if you really want a team to win, what is your only course of action?????

Fine Ham Biscuit, indeed!

[davcbow]

If we dont win tonight then Im all for "Fine Ham Bisquits" :g:

[MattD]

Im for it, Ive been for it except for that one period when MJ stepped in. Ditch him, he is ruining my team and my credibility, I thought the bobcats were going to be good. Yeah they were going to be until this idiot crashed the party, ruined chemistry, and ran an offense like a middle school coach

[MattD]

I think this is worth posting up. before the press conference, the whole team was on the practice court running through things for a final time... great. So Gerald comes in and the whole team leaves, but Vincent and Lee Rose stay on the court, Vincent shoots up a bunch of jumpers while Lee Rose is rebounding for him... Normally Id be fine with it, who cares, but when he starts bitching at the players and saying he has leadership, when before a game hes out there launching up jumpers, I lose even more respect for you. Heres a picture
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/rochov/IMG_0113.jpg

its hard to tell, but he was out there shootin them up
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/rochov/IMG_0112.jpg

[ohara831]

You know, no one here really likes Rick Bonnell for the way he writes, but he deserves some credit for writing a pretty scathing article which seems to put voice to what has been said on this Thread for some time. It may hurt, but we should congratulate him for a good article.

[MattD]

I think it was good too, happy to see bonnell take shots. Does he check into Bobcatsplanet? I bet

[Muttley]

Good call OHara. I thought the same when I read the article.

So, without further ado, good article Mr. Bonnell.

[davcbow]

All right you all are scaring me with all the Bonnell love although it was a good article..... :g:

[ziggy]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/amour217/NotListening.jpg

Absolutely priceless!! +1

[BIGCatBobcat]

Matt, I know Mokeski, I tried to look up the right way to spell his name on the website but he's not listed, Dell Curry is but he is not, was running practice. Which was weird to watch, everyone standing around not doing anything while he reads from some notes but was Sam out there? I really wanted to press my face against the glass. It was good to see Ammo out there, not participating but he was working out (Sean was not even there).
So they won last night, I didn't get to watch the game, gotta sleep sometime, so I don't know how they looked who played when and whatever. I do see we had a 20 point lead and we went on a 5 min streak with no FGs in the 4th.

[amour217]

Here's the reaction around the league to Sam Vincent giving McInnis a starting spot:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/amour217/BigVincentReaction.jpg

[Muttley]

amour, that's a thing of beauty

[davcbow]

Yeah thats pretty good...... :biggrin: :cheers1:

[ohara831]

That was priceless!!

[ziggy]

You guys will probably enjoy knowing that this thread is now #1 in google for the term "fine ham biscuit" (in quotes) :biggrin:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/bobcatsplanet/googlefhb.jpg

[willyfray]

As bad as Vincent is, I think it would be ridiculous to fire him either during his first season or after one season. Unless, that is, MJ decided that he would like to be the coach. Otherwise, I think it is silly for any team, especially a relatively young team like the Bobcats, to fire a coach after only one year. We wouldn't want to become the Raiders of the NBA. That said, Vincent needs serious help on making lineups, taking blame, and properly motivating his players. If his performance continues to decline in these areas, then something does need to happen, just not yet.

[MattD]

drop him to third assistant like on dallas... he needs to go. I dont care, find someone who knows what they are doing. one game out of the playoffs means really nothing in the east. And we could be more, we are talented, just using it totally wrong.

God why did we not hire stan van... he said vincent could have been an assistant! Dkahd

[BIGCatBobcat]

Sam doesn't know what he's doing!!! He obvioulsy has realized that. What do you do when you don't know what youre doing and you're under pressure? You blame others. "well the team didnt try very hard tonight, I'm doing everything I can but they just arent showing much effort out there." Huh? you telling me, Gerald Wallace and Jason Richardson, who his former fans were donating money towards thanking, weren't trying hard? When they win all of a sudden it's well we did this we did that. Ridiculous. Sam is lost and confused and in over his head. Cut your losses and get out of town Radio!
Again, 4 people would have to get kicked out of the game last year before he was the guy. Did Jordan want to look like he was on the cutting edge and pick a guy that no one really knew about?

[amour217]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/amour217/FHBposter.jpg

[davcbow]

Fine ham bisquit!!!!

[ohara831]

I cannot agree with firing Sam right now. First, we are making a run at the Playoffs. It took some time for the team to gel with Sam as coach. If you fire him now and get someone new, the team will take too much time to get use to him and we will lose our opportunity. We have no choice but to keep plugging away and let Sam and the team learn as we go.

Secondly, all this anger over Sam playing Jeff and not starting Nazr. Guys, use common sense here. If for a second this was being done WITHOUT to approval and consent of MJ, don't you know that MJ would have sat down with Sam , discussed it, and ordered him to start Nazr and bench Jeff. Of course he would. That is not a valid argument to make for firing Sam. Those moves are made with the consent of the owner, and MJ is not going to fire himself or Sam for those reasons.

[MattD]

For Ohara's run at the playoffs. Were not going to make it with him under the helm. I thought I would repost my thoughts on the game, its filled with vincent hatred.

when a team shoots better from the 3 then from the field, you know they are going to beat you. They shot 10-18 from the three. We shot 3-17. that defines the game right there.

Then to have jeff play thirty minutes and rack up wait for it.... 4 points, 4 assists, 1 rebound. WHAT A FUCKING JOKE. At least in 23 minutes, Earl 5 points and 3 assists. and he was bricking them like crazy, once he gets into the flow of things, he better start over McInnis. Seriously.

On a more positive note, how about Ryan Hollins, 4-4 from the field, 2-4 from the line (not usually that bad) with 10 points. Thats nice.

Basically we looked like shit, I am not going to lie, I fell asleep in the 4th. That game blew. Damn. Sorry Jrich.

I feel so bad for Jason Richardson. He had just elevated (yeah elevated) his team to the next level, they had fun, great chemistry. And then he gets dished to us, where we cannot support the team, we cannot hire a coach who knows how to coach basketball. Vincent has no idea how to coach on this level, its apparent every night, and its disgusting. Its upsetting we only have 18 wins this far into the season. We have a lot of talent and a decent bench.

FIRE VINCENT.

MJ For Coach.

[davcbow]

I cannot agree with firing Sam right now. First, we are making a run at the Playoffs. It took some time for the team to gel with Sam as coach. If you fire him now and get someone new, the team will take too much time to get use to him and we will lose our opportunity. We have no choice but to keep plugging away and let Sam and the team learn as we go.

Secondly, all this anger over Sam playing Jeff and not starting Nazr. Guys, use common sense here. If for a second this was being done WITHOUT to approval and consent of MJ, don't you know that MJ would have sat down with Sam , discussed it, and ordered him to start Nazr and bench Jeff. Of course he would. That is not a valid argument to make for firing Sam. Those moves are made with the consent of the owner, and MJ is not going to fire himself or Sam for those reasons.


Gel you say? Where? We stunk it slap up last night and that dumbass Radio V Ham Bisquit dont have a friggen clue. Playoffs? LOL .... Any body but Sam (Ham Bisquit) Vincent...... :g:

[spectre]

Did you notice their great run came in the early 2nd quarter when the bench guys were in but he still left them in for almost 5 minutes til we were down almost 30?

The longer he stays on the more damage he does. He's pretty much threw Felton out...luckily Mek seems to be overcoming his idiocy and is starting to play great regardless. He's making our players look stupid overall in games like last night though.

Cut bait. Yesterday.

[ohara831]

How about this argument. We are not going to make the Playoffs. We are just not that good. So, let him play his game of trying to make the lineups gel. Let's give players a chance to grow and learn, like our Rookie Jared Dudley.

At the end of the season, if we have less than 28 victories and the team is clearly at odds with the Coach, then MJ may do something. However, with the injuries to May and Morrison, they may give him a bye. But, if you are upset he is screwing us up, then since we have no shot at the playoffs, then by all means let him screw it up. That is likely the ONLY way that Mgmnt will take notice. A horribly disappointing record and the players basically telling mgmnt that they cannot play for this Coach. The more we let him screw up, the more likely mgmnt notices.

[MattD]

How about this argument. We are not going to make the Playoffs. We are just not that good. So, let him play his game of trying to make the lineups gel. Let's give players a chance to grow and learn, like our Rookie Jared Dudley.

At the end of the season, if we have less than 28 victories and the team is clearly at odds with the Coach, then MJ may do something. However, with the injuries to May and Morrison, they may give him a bye. But, if you are upset he is screwing us up, then since we have no shot at the playoffs, then by all means let him screw it up. That is likely the ONLY way that Mgmnt will take notice. A horribly disappointing record and the players basically telling mgmnt that they cannot play for this Coach. The more we let him screw up, the more likely mgmnt notices.


one simple response. Bullshit

the team is good enough. they are at least a 500 team. Seriously, we are good enough. I have seen many of our loses come from what i think are coaching loses. Stupid lineups, not calling a time out, players unmotivated etc. I would be (useless now anyways) that if we had hired Stan Van or someone with moderate amount of experience rather then the 1 year 3rd nba assistant experience Sam Vincent. We would have several more wins, and be on track for the 6th to 8th seed. Its not that hard to make the playoffs in the east. You have to really suck to not make them, hell NY is still in the chase. Our players dont really suck, our coach really sucks

[BIGCatBobcat]

i'd love to give the guy a chance, he just won't let me because he doesn't really try. "I don't like the way Ray plays the point, ditch him, play McInnis" Don't try and coach him, go with a guy who shouldnt play in the first place. Jeff and Ray are both hurt, so is DA, we need another pg right away. Boykins is a nice piece to fill a roster spot, but don't give up on Ray, please! We have a rookie who is ready to play, high basketball iq and he gets burried on the bench. We have a kid who is a sparkplug off the bench, jumps out of the gym and all he wants to do is block and dunk, but bury him on the bench too so he can rot away and never learn.
If we were actually in the hunt and trying something different from trotting out "the experienced pg" and our 4 best players for 35 mins a game would hurt us this season, I would sit back and go ok I see he's sticking to his guns and for good reason. But it's simply not working. We have some nice parts and he's completely screwing it up.
FIRE HIM ONCE THEY GET HOME FROM THIS ROAD TRIP!!!!

[davcbow]

How about this argument. We are not going to make the Playoffs. We are just not that good. So, let him play his game of trying to make the lineups gel. Let's give players a chance to grow and learn, like our Rookie Jared Dudley.

At the end of the season, if we have less than 28 victories and the team is clearly at odds with the Coach, then MJ may do something. However, with the injuries to May and Morrison, they may give him a bye. But, if you are upset he is screwing us up, then since we have no shot at the playoffs, then by all means let him screw it up. That is likely the ONLY way that Mgmnt will take notice. A horribly disappointing record and the players basically telling mgmnt that they cannot play for this Coach. The more we let him screw up, the more likely mgmnt notices.


one simple response. Bullshit

the team is good enough. they are at least a 500 team. Seriously, we are good enough. I have seen many of our loses come from what i think are coaching loses. Stupid lineups, not calling a time out, players unmotivated etc. I would be (useless now anyways) that if we had hired Stan Van or someone with moderate amount of experience rather then the 1 year 3rd nba assistant experience Sam Vincent. We would have several more wins, and be on track for the 6th to 8th seed. Its not that hard to make the playoffs in the east. You have to really suck to not make them, hell NY is still in the chase. Our players dont really suck, our coach really sucks


Ahhh arent both of ya'll saying the same things only in different words? I think talent wise we are a .500 team but with Ham Bisquit coaching we will be lucky to hit 30 wins this year......Myself Im usually the one that says give him a chance, but now he has had plenty of chances. So I say "Fine Ham Bisquit" in chant style and plead that everybody joins in so MJ will hear it...... :g:

[ohara831]

Coaching is not the cause of all our losses. A few, yes. But most important is that we are not good enough. Sorry MatD, but the truth is the truth. Too many times we have been in games late in the 4th, and the players screw up. They take bad shots, throw the ball away, fail to play defense, etc.... The players we have are the ones who have consistently failed to do the job. When you take a Rookie coach on top of that, you get disappointment.

The team gets close to a playoff spot, and then folds like a bad lawn chair. They do not have the makeup on this team to accept winning. Are they afraid of winning? Do they just choke under the pressure? I don't know, but they do not have that person on this team who will take them on his shoulders and lead them to victory. As good as Crash and J-Rich are, and as good as Ray and Okafor can sometimes be, we do not have "The Man" on this team. Until such time, we will not make the Playoffs.

Do not get me wrong. I want this team to win. But I have seen enough to know that we do not have what it takes this yr. We will win 2 of 3, then lose 4 of 5. We win 2 of 4, then lose 4 of 6. We must get better through the Draft, Trades and FA. We must get new blood in and send the crappy or avg ones packing. We will win in the near future, but just not now.

[MattD]

Coaching is not the cause of all our losses. A few, yes. But most important is that we are not good enough. Sorry MatD, but the truth is the truth. Too many times we have been in games late in the 4th, and the players screw up. They take bad shots, throw the ball away, fail to play defense, etc....


first off re-reading my post it comes across as disrespectful, I didnt mean it. Anyways I think that what you pinpoint has everything to do with coaching. Hustle, shoot selection, and failing to play defense all have to do with the decisions the coach makes from the lineups to the way he motivates them to the plays he designs for them. Vincent has failed at all of these as far as I can tell.

If you disagree, then I think we will just have to accept that we disagree. :)

In my opinion he has hurt us so badly, I see nothing to gain from leaving him in and everything to gain from trying something else.

[ohara831]

MattD: I took no disrespect in your comments, and I never intend any in mine. You always make good points. On this issue, we just disagree. I see things as a combination of the players not doing their job well enough AND the Coach making many Rookie errors. When these two problems combine, you get what we have happening in Charlotte right now.

Honestly, I really believe that as good as this Draft in 08 will be, that we will find that person who can really get us over the hump. I just have a strong feeling that this Draft is going to go our way. Maybe that is why I have been pressing on making trades for more picks which will likely be Lottery bound. It is just a really strong feeling.

[ohara831]

See what I mean? Tonight was a perfect example. No Crash, and Okafor, Ray, Dudley and J-Rich all stepped up. We led by 10 at half, by 5 after 3rd. Then in the 4th, they creamed us 35-14. It ain't all Sam's fault. The players just choke or seem to be afraid to win. WE could have made up ground with our main challengers losing tonight, and we failed to do so.

[TheBeagle]

Yes, I'm at odds with anyone who thinks this team's "talent" is at a .500 level. How do you figure that? What would lead you to that conclusion? Seriously. We have no go-to guy to help us out in close games. We have no consistent FT shooter; our team is 29th out of 30 teams in that department, for that matter, and in the close games that we have been in (and even in some of the double digit games) those woes have been a significant impact.

Aside from Mek, we have nothing in the middle, NOTHING. We're softer than a 60 year olds gut. Even Mek is guilty of this at times; hesitating too long or laying it up instead of just slamming it, but he's the best we have.

These guys don't understand defense. This owes in part to coaching, but even when Vincent goes with a zone, they act like they've never played a zone before. They give up massive holes in the inside and are slow as hell closing out on shooters.

Talent? I think we've got a team with enough talent to win more games than it looks like we're going to win this year, but a 41 win team? Uh.....no.

[davcbow]

Last year with less talent we were a better team, this year with more talent we arent as good. What main reason would you say it is? Trade the team away and get all new players? We have talent on this team but no fire, thats (coaching). I agree that our bench players either suck or dont have any experience but the main core has talent. Tonight GW is out and Duds fills in you know the guy that never plays much, rides the bench most of the time. Wonder why he dont play much? (Coaching). Why didnt he do all that well? Experience; Why? (Coaching). Why do our guys usually fall apart in the 2nd half? Because they are tired, worn out, exhausted; why? Improper use of bench players and rotations; Why? (Coaching). On top of having a bad coach we have players that on some nights couldnt hit the planet, let alone a hoop. So tell me what chance do we have at all?. Why do injuries happen? Worn out players trying to do too much. It all comes down to (coaching)... :g:

[ohara831]

I do not accept Tiredness as a legitimate excuse for a player. All teams play back to back games. Great players aare out there on the Court a great deal of the time. "I'm tired" is an excuse for a loser if you are a professional athlete.

Exceptions: If a player is coming off of a sickness like the flu or something that drains your body. If a player missed an extended period of time with injury and was slightly out of shape due to not being able to exercise properly.

I never remember hearing the great teams of the Lakers, Pistons, Celtics or Bulls complain of being tired when they lost a game. Playing an extra 4-5 minutes per game is what the great players thrive upon in competition.

[Edrow]

I do not accept Tiredness as a legitimate excuse for a player. All teams play back to back games. Great players aare out there on the Court a great deal of the time. "I'm tired" is an excuse for a loser if you are a professional athlete.

Exceptions: If a player is coming off of a sickness like the flu or something that drains your body. If a player missed an extended period of time with injury and was slightly out of shape due to not being able to exercise properly.

I never remember hearing the great teams of the Lakers, Pistons, Celtics or Bulls complain of being tired when they lost a game. Playing an extra 4-5 minutes per game is what the great players thrive upon in competition.


Well said. That excuse drives me nuts. If you're so tired out there, then drink some coffee for Pete's sake. If you are a professional athlete, then that must mean that your body is phsyically fit to a point where it can be abused in the harshest of conditions. So use it damnit!

-Edrow

[MattD]

well this is something new

"Tough game in Golden State last night, late-night travel, high altitude, but we don't want to make excuses," said Sam Vincent, who reached his boiling point late in the game and was ejected after two technical fouls.
"We came in, we played hard, we played well for probably 38 minutes and then we had some defensive lapses. We don't get some calls and things swing out of control for us."

think he reads bobcats planet?

[dav7z]

.Very interisting game . First RICH has to be one of the most streaky players in the NBA. I would love to see a little more consistancy thair . Still a good player i love him on our team.
Next Dudley a player who [NEEDS ] more playing time . I blame the coach for not taking advantage of his talents. I thought he did a nice job guarding a great player last night.
He brings a physical presence to the starting line up. We never get that out of say a Mcinnis. At worst hes a key back up player.
Nazr all so looked good in the line up beside Okafor. We ruled the boards the first half.But didn't take advantage of those two in the second half . All most like we lost them [NEVER ]heard either name called much in the second half. The coach could and should control that.
Felton all so showed he could handle starting at the point and Boinkins once he learns the plays should be a nice back up and push Felton. I am glad the coach or who ever figured out Mcinnis sucks.
Next i disagree about the playing time and playing hurt .It does affect the players game. A six player rotation is just to damn short . It is proven in all work invirments a tired or hurt worker is not going to give you the same quility of work ,as if that worker or player has had rest. All so in the work invirment a tired worker is more likely to get hurt. It applys to all work basketball players included. I blame the coach for not trying to extend the rotation with players like Dudley and Hollins, D.A and Carroll ,Even though i hate Harrington he did give a few usefull mins last night. As could Mcinnis in a crunch . So it's no excuse for playing just six or seven players.
I thought the rotation and chemisty of the team was much better even though we lost the game and was short Wallace.To me useing that line up and players is somthing we can build on.Your thoughts.

[TheBeagle]

well this is something new

"Tough game in Golden State last night, late-night travel, high altitude, but we don't want to make excuses," said Sam Vincent, who reached his boiling point late in the game and was ejected after two technical fouls.
"We came in, we played hard, we played well for probably 38 minutes and then we had some defensive lapses. We don't get some calls and things swing out of control for us."

think he reads bobcats planet?
:biggrin: Yeah, he had to've!! Didn't I write the same thing in the game thread after the game was over? Maybe we could be his press agents :g:

[wil]

if they are not going to fire sam, i hope sam finds it in his pride n conscience to step down!! i mean i hope he realizes how he made our season a failure!!! :afro:

[ohara831]

OK. I am finally on board. But I'd let him finish out the Season. If we dont, we will get a reputation for killing our coaches before they even get a full yr into contract. That will deter us from getting the quality people in for interviews. Gotta let him finish the yr. Immediately cut him lose afterwards. Get a new Coach in to evaluate who we want to keep on the team and also get a feel for our team and the needs going into the Draft.

[bizzlecatz]

I say releave him now, and the entire coaching staff, after a lineup of Jeff, Earl, and DA last night against the Pistons. The Pistons made the Bobcats look like they were in Michael Jordan's playground.

The Bobcat has become unbearable to watch, it's just sad what he has done to this team.

On a side note, can anyone please tell me what system Radio run, trying to run, or if he has one at all. Please!

[amour217]

On a side note, can anyone please tell me what system Radio run, trying to run, or if he has one at all. Please!




From the looks of it, the system he's trying to run is a Commodore 64

[bizzlecatz]

Really,what makes you say that?

[davcbow]

On a side note, can anyone please tell me what system Radio run, trying to run, or if he has one at all. Please!




From the looks of it, the system he's trying to run is a Commodore 64


More Like a Vic20 :g:

[Edrow]

That was classic, nice one about the Commodore 64!

I'm on board with his firing as well. Now or after the season, I'll take either.

-Eddie

[davcbow]

I think the sooner the better, get it over with and we can just let the smoke settle the rest of the season with at least Bernie as the interm coach..... :g:

[MattD]

so much for keeping ray at PG. McInnis started again tonight. This dude is physco.

[ohara831]

And the Lord said "Thou shall have no other Gods befor me." But what did not get recorded was this " But Sam Vincent can sit in for me now and then." Stop blaspheming, people! Sam is our superior in intellect, strength, stamina,....in everything. His IQ surpasses Einstein and all other quantum physics geniuses. Second quessing him can only lead to your doom and despair!!! Sam is my HERO!!

Someone slap me and wake me up out of this nightmare!!!!!

[davcbow]

Slap --Wake up dude.. :g:

[ohara831]

Thank you! I needed that!

[amour217]

In the latest NBA Power Rankings on Foxsports.com, the Bobcats have fallen 5 spots to #26 (out of 30), just ahead of the Knicks, Sonics, Grizzlies, and Heat. Here is the comment on our beloved Bobcats:


The Bobcats have stopped playing defense, a pretty good indication that they’ve tuned out their coach.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/powerRankings

[ohara831]

I wonder if the win vs the Hawks bought him more time?

[Muttley]

I wonder if the win vs the Hawks bought him more time?


Inclined to believe it has, but I seriously hope not. I'm certainly not the best of basketball minds by any stretch, but I don't see anything good from keeping him as coach right now.

[ohara831]

I wonder if the win vs the Hawks bought him more time?


Inclined to believe it has, but I seriously hope not. I'm certainly not the best of basketball minds by any stretch, but I don't see anything good from keeping him as coach right now.
__________________________________________________ _

I know Jordan wants to save face. He has a major ego as any great sports competitor will have, and he hates to make a move and have it pan out badly. I'd be willing to bet $$$ that he will not be fired. I think what will happen is they will announce he is being moved into an " Upper management position w/in the organtization" and we will hire someone new. There will be little fanfare as to what Vincent is doing, and no one will care as long as it is not coaching. This allows Jordan to save face and we get a new Coach.

[spectre]

Jordan fired his 1st coach in Washington after one year.


Jordan hired longtime college coach Leonard Hamilton, with no pro experience, as Wizards coach — then fired him after a 19-63 season in which Jordan did not play.

USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/wizards/2003-05-07-jordan-out_x.htm)

Dag, you think he'd have learned from that.

[davcbow]

Old habits hard to break? :g:

[Muttley]

I wonder if the win vs the Hawks bought him more time?


Inclined to believe it has, but I seriously hope not. I'm certainly not the best of basketball minds by any stretch, but I don't see anything good from keeping him as coach right now.
__________________________________________________ _

I know Jordan wants to save face. He has a major ego as any great sports competitor will have, and he hates to make a move and have it pan out badly. I'd be willing to bet $$$ that he will not be fired. I think what will happen is they will announce he is being moved into an " Upper management position w/in the organtization" and we will hire someone new. There will be little fanfare as to what Vincent is doing, and no one will care as long as it is not coaching. This allows Jordan to save face and we get a new Coach.


I'd be happy with that.

[TheBeagle]

Just let it be said that I have it on good authority that the organization writ large is not happy with the performance; though whether a change is close at hand, I don't know. Lower bowl season ticket holders will have a voice in the matter, though I'm guessing it's ultimately MJ's call... :g:

[Mustachio]

Just let it be said that I have it on good authority that the organization writ large is not happy with the performance; though whether a change is close at hand, I don't know. Lower bowl season ticket holders will have a voice in the matter, though I'm guessing it's ultimately MJ's call... :g:


what do you know, how do you know. Why just lower bowl ST holders?

[ziggy]

I can't imagine that any of the lower bowl season ticket holders would sign off on keeping Sam. They're the ones that actually get to see some of his coaching nonsense up close.

I think that if we're going to have a prayer of getting into the #8 spot then something needs to happen in the next few days. There are only 29 games left, 19 of which are on the road. :-\

[Muttley]

They're the ones that actually get to see some of his coaching nonsense up close.


... when they actually use their tickets.

[dnbman]

They're the ones that actually get to see some of his coaching nonsense up close.


... when they actually use their tickets.


That's the loudest vote on the Vincent question.

[ziggy]

They're the ones that actually get to see some of his coaching nonsense up close.


... when they actually use their tickets.


That's the loudest vote on the Vincent question.

Excellent point. If its a dollars and cents decision, then that would lead me to believe that nothing wil happen to Biscuit until the end of the season, because there are only 10 home games left anyway.

[TheBeagle]

They're the ones that actually get to see some of his coaching nonsense up close.


... when they actually use their tickets.


That's the loudest vote on the Vincent question.

Excellent point. If its a dollars and cents decision, then that would lead me to believe that nothing wil happen to Biscuit until the end of the season, because there are only 10 home games left anyway.
Ultimately, that is the reason. Depending on the section and the number of tickets, we're talking 10s of thousands of dollars for an individual lower bowl ST holder in some cases; it is very much about the money. The lower bowl season ticket holders' "voice" in the matter is whether or not they will retain their tickets. In a couple weeks they'll get some info about this, and get something like a questionairre about how they feel about the progress of the team, etc. (all season ticket holders may get this, I'm honestly not sure, I just know the lower bowl was stressed because of the higher income it generates.)

In that case, Ziggy, your inference is probably correct about Vincent's fate, but should it continue to get really ugly, a sooner change wouldn't surprise me, considering the faith that the organization has in him. We'll see; despite the disappointing performance this season, it sure as hell doesn't lack for intrigue....

[amour217]

Sam Vincent...apply directly to the unemployment line...

Sam Vincent...apply directly to the unemployment line...

Sam Vincent...apply directly to the unemployment line...

Sam Vincent...apply directly to the unemployment line...

Sam Vincent...apply directly to the unemployment line...

[Mustachio]

Sam Vincent...apply directly to the unemployment line...

Sam Vincent...apply directly to the unemployment line...

Sam Vincent...apply directly to the unemployment line...

Sam Vincent...apply directly to the unemployment line...

Sam Vincent...apply directly to the unemployment line...


freakin hilarious.

[Muttley]

From Mark Stein's power rankings:


We, too, would love to know exactly what MJ is thinking when he hears increasing speculation that his rookie coach is being tuned out already. But I really don't know that anybody but Cuba Gooding can get to him.

Now, I know you're telling yourself, "Self, isn't that a reference to those Hanes commercials where Cuba wears MJ's underwear?"
Sure, it could be. But, couldn't it also be a reference to Sam Vincent's true identity being Radio, as played by Cuba in the movie???

[davcbow]

From Mark Stein's power rankings:


We, too, would love to know exactly what MJ is thinking when he hears increasing speculation that his rookie coach is being tuned out already. But I really don't know that anybody but Cuba Gooding can get to him.

Now, I know you're telling yourself, "Self, isn't that a reference to those Hanes commercials where Cuba wears MJ's underwear?"
Sure, it could be. But, couldn't it also be a reference to Sam Vincent's true identity being Radio, as played by Cuba in the movie???


Now thats freakin hilarious. :biggrin:

[MattD]

even the charlotte metro credit union commercial shows vincents hate for Jared Dudley!
:biggrin:

I honestly just wish he would have started as an assistant and worked up to a head coach with more experience

[Muttley]

even the charlotte metro credit union commercial shows vincents hate for Jared Dudley!
:biggrin:

I honestly just wish he would have started as an assistant and worked up to a head coach with more experience


Perhaps he could have been our coach in a couple years. Now, I doubt if he'll get another shot in the NBA after this.

[MattD]

yep. But he will be able to tell his kids that he was remembered as the Fine Ham Biscuit!

[MattD]

another 4th quarter breakdown yields this from me

sam vincent is such a hinderance to this team. The lineups dont make sense. Wheres meks defense. Wheres geralds d. oh yeah on the bench. Gerald may not be hot, but at least he was playing decent d. Same with mek. This is bullshit. I am teetering on the edge of stopping watching bobcats games like ohara.

This is ridiculous. He needs to resign. Let Lee Rose take over. Some change is needed. the players are limp. Only Jrich seems to have any fire. Ray barely. Nazr is trying too.

He wont give earl a chance. Early starts a little rough, thats it for the game. How the hell is he supposed to get used to the team.

This guy is a raging idiot.

I find myself thinking/typing this a lot after watching bobcats games. That is sad.

[ohara831]

OK. Now he has finally pissed me off! He was talking about Crash's injury. It had nothing to do with the way Crash plays all out and scares us sometimes. This was an inadvertant elbow which can happen anytime and anywhere on the Court. Had nothing to do with Crash's sometimes frantic play of throwing his body out there.

They were talking about Crash being out for at least 2 weeks, maybe more. Vincent said Crash had to be "concerned" and then changed the word to "aware". What the _uck?!! What do you mean by that, you damn fool. You want Crash to change his style of play which endears him to his fans and makes him the best player on our team, and why? He did not get hurt doing ANYTHING dangerous or risky. He was standing still under the basket trying to hem in an opponent with the ball. Most people except for PG and SG do that 30 times a game. You damn fool, dont be putting thoughts in Crash's head to make him fragile or scared. That will cost him his game!

Idiot. Fire the idiot now!!

[Muttley]

If he resigned as head coach today, it would easily be the smartest thing that he's done for the franchise to date... which makes me realize (or maybe concerned or aware) that it will never happen.

I swear, Sam Vincent should be more "aware" when he's walking down the street. How dare he try to put blame on Gerald. Douche-bag.

[spectre]

"Sam Vincent, he changed it up. He wanted to go more run-and-gun. I have no problem with that, I can run three days in a row. But I think I set a record in the NBA: out of 50 games I started I didn’t get the ball, I didn’t get a shot off. So I was like, you know what Sam? You don’t need me, you don’t like me and I don’t like you, so get me out of here. And see how they’re doing this year?"

Primoz - Interview with the Toronto Globe and Mail.

If only he'd showed that on the floor.

[MattD]

And we start to hear the ex players hatred for him... dunnanana

he could be blamed for every loss because of his messed up system but that aside, i dont think he did awful last night except for McInnis' play (though he did score 12 points I would rather switch McInnis minutes with boykins please).

[Keetch]

ah the great Primoz world tour continues; spreading love and good tidings everywhere he goes.

what a toon.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

mid season report on Bobcats by Charlie Rosen from Foxsports.com

CHARLOTTE: grade D

Bernie Bickerstaff left the bench much too early. Whereas the players responded to his gentle but firm manner, Sam Vincent's off-the-cuff remarks and slow learning curve have undone much of what Bickerstaff had previously accomplished. The result is that the Bobcats played harder for Bickerstaff than they do for Vincent.

This is so true. The only difference in opinion I have is that I give Sam Vincent an F

[Muttley]

mid season report on Bobcats by Charlie Rosen from Foxsports.com

CHARLOTTE: grade D

Bernie Bickerstaff left the bench much too early. Whereas the players responded to his gentle but firm manner, Sam Vincent's off-the-cuff remarks and slow learning curve have undone much of what Bickerstaff had previously accomplished. The result is that the Bobcats played harder for Bickerstaff than they do for Vincent.

This is so true. The only difference in opinion I have is that I give Sam Vincent an F


I'm thinking the bump in grade from F to D is a result of the players' abilities which are there, but often obscured from sight by the Captain Moron on the bench.

[TheBeagle]

After the Grizzlies loss, I can't see how this doesn't happen, if there is any competence to this organization. We either have clueless morons for players that don't understand any sort of fundamental principle of basketball in its most basic form, or these guys have absolutely quit on "coach." There may be 1 or 2 of the former, but I think the latter is definitely the case, and I think we saw in the stands at Memphis a foreshadowing of what The Biscuit will look like if massive changes aren't made, or at the very least, getting "coach" out of town. I've always thought of myself as a fairly diehard fan, but I'm even starting to lose interest and, mostly importantly, patience with this organization. :(

[Keetch]

Well its been 24 hours since the Monstrosity in Memphis.

Is he gone yet?

[ziggy]

Sadly no.

He has to get canned this offseason. Even if we were to land Beasley or Rose in the lottery, theres no way for us compete with him running/ruining the show.

[davcbow]

I say fire the entire lot. Geezuss I cant believe that MJ has let it go this far. :g:

[Keetch]

How odd. I can only conclude that MJ must be on a private cruise somewhere and out of touch.

When your team suffers public humiliation to the extent the Bobcats suffered in Memphis; surely the coach must be removed. This is professional sports. Its what happens.

And...Its the only honorable thing to do.

We'll see what happens when he gets back from vacation. At this point keeping Vincent is much more embarrassing than firing him.

The Bobcats do seem to go on vacation alot. Like last August/September when they were away and forgot to find a Power Forward.

[TheBeagle]

From the take-it-for-what-it-is department:

Marc Stein, on his most recent power rankings, predicts "coach" is going to be fired during the off-season. I swear I would rather that happen than winning the lottery this year.....and it's not even close!!!

I have no clue of any candidates for the position, but whoever it is, it can only be on upgrade.

From what I'm thinking, whoever is out there, there shouldn't be much competition. The only teams looking for a new coach are Chicago, Milwaukee, and probably New York and New Jersey. Are there any other teams I'm overlooking?

[timang]

i think indiana is looking for a new coach next season too. i maybe wrong about it though.

[Mustachio]

bump. because he sat raymond and emeka for over 10 minutes in the end of the 3rd and much into the fourth. with 6 minutes left he brings felton in but plays him at SG with boykins. with about 2 and half minutes to go he puts him at PG.

he is literaly the worst coach in organized sports. im including youth league soccer and teeball in that assessment.

i hate him. with all thats in me

[ohara831]

bump. because he sat raymond and emeka for over 10 minutes in the end of the 3rd and much into the fourth. with 6 minutes left he brings felton in but plays him at SG with boykins. with about 2 and half minutes to go he puts him at PG.

he is literaly the worst coach in organized sports. im including youth league soccer and teeball in that assessment.

i hate him. with all thats in me
_______________________________________________

Dont hold back. Tell us how you really feel. It's OK. It will just be our secret. Yours, mine and the entire BobcatsPlanet. Just let your feelings go and tell us what all this horrible coaching is doing to you. I discussed it with myself, and found it very enriching to let out my frustrations and rage at the team when they disappointed me. Now, I just smile and say "Tomorrow is another day. And I always have Tara."

Just trying to make you laugh a little. Just think how OJ Mayo will look in our Bobcat uni next season. That will brighten your day.

[spectre]

bump. because he sat raymond and emeka for over 10 minutes in the end of the 3rd and much into the fourth. with 6 minutes left he brings felton in but plays him at SG with boykins. with about 2 and half minutes to go he puts him at PG.

he is literaly the worst coach in organized sports. im including youth league soccer and teeball in that assessment.

i hate him. with all thats in me


Just cuz it bears repeating.

[dvdbumpus]

I'd like to point out that the "Fire Sam Vincent" thread is the most popular thread on the forums, with over 235 posts, nearly 100 posts more than the next closest thread.


Michal Thompson and the entire Bobcats staff, I think you get the picture.


FIRE SAM VINCENT!!!!

[MattD]

amen. had another game lost

[timang]

bump. because he sat raymond and emeka for over 10 minutes in the end of the 3rd and much into the fourth. with 6 minutes left he brings felton in but plays him at SG with boykins. with about 2 and half minutes to go he puts him at PG.

he is literaly the worst coach in organized sports. im including youth league soccer and teeball in that assessment.

i hate him. with all thats in me


WTF SAM VINCENT?! WTFF? :banghead:

[Muttley]

Yes, it's true, Sam Vincent is not a good coach.

[ohara831]

You know, I really have a hard time advocating for someone's firing. I mean, we are talking about someone's livlihood. Family is involved, assistant coaches and their families. It is not easy to fire someone, and we all should keep that in mind when we yell for his head. We are talking about people here, even if they know the difficulty when they take the job.

That said, he really has underperformed, even with Ammo and May out. Failure to find the right lineup and stay with it for any reasonable amount of time. Bad play calls. It was a misuse of Ray for so much time. Now, if the Ray at SG thing was done at the order of mgmnt, then they better damn well stand up and say so. If that is the case, then I cannot in good faith hold that against him. That is the fault of whomever made the call. I just hope that if it was someone in mgmnt, MJ or whomever, they stand up like men and take the blame for it and dont throw it off on a lame duck coach who really didn't make the call (if that is the case).

I guess I can understand all the disappointment. I'm disgusted with this season also - a lost season and we may lose our PF/C to discontent. I lay 1/2 the blame on poor coaching/management and 1/2 the blame on the players. If that is enough to get the Coach fired, then so be it. But he should not take all the blame. For much of the 2nd half of the season, the team basically quit on him. And that aint cool in any way, shape or form.

Well, I just have to say this for the Thread. I am no fan of Sam Vincent, but I cannot say I hate him. He just got in over his head and it took a long time to learn to swim. And treading water this long hurt us badly.

[Muttley]

You know, I really have a hard time advocating for someone's firing. I mean, we are talking about someone's livlihood. Family is involved, assistant coaches and their families. It is not easy to fire someone, and we all should keep that in mind when we yell for his head. We are talking about people here, even if they know the difficulty when they take the job.

That said, he really has underperformed, even with Ammo and May out. Failure to find the right lineup and stay with it for any reasonable amount of time. Bad play calls. It was a misuse of Ray for so much time. Now, if the Ray at SG thing was done at the order of mgmnt, then they better damn well stand up and say so. If that is the case, then I cannot in good faith hold that against him. That is the fault of whomever made the call. I just hope that if it was someone in mgmnt, MJ or whomever, they stand up like men and take the blame for it and dont throw it off on a lame duck coach who really didn't make the call (if that is the case).

I guess I can understand all the disappointment. I'm disgusted with this season also - a lost season and we may lose our PF/C to discontent. I lay 1/2 the blame on poor coaching/management and 1/2 the blame on the players. If that is enough to get the Coach fired, then so be it. But he should not take all the blame. For much of the 2nd half of the season, the team basically quit on him. And that aint cool in any way, shape or form.

Well, I just have to say this for the Thread. I am no fan of Sam Vincent, but I cannot say I hate him. He just got in over his head and it took a long time to learn to swim. And treading water this long hurt us badly.



I don't hate Sam Vincent. I'd accept "Demote Sam Vincent," but I don't know if it would happen.

[dnbman]

Well, I just have to say this for the Thread. I am no fan of Sam Vincent, but I cannot say I hate him. He just got in over his head and it took a long time to learn to swim. And treading water this long hurt us badly.


I think most people on here agree with you here; nobody really hates Sam Vincent, although he has said some unprofessional things at times.

That being said, coaching is best on performance, not who is a nice guy and who isn't. A lot of people here even think Sam will be good one day. He's just not good now and, more importantly, seems to have lost the ears of the players. I don't think such a relationship can be fixed easily with Sam staying.

Therefore, we really need to let the guy go, regardless of his situation.

I know the stakes are different, but just think if he was your doctor. If he had demonstrated similar abilities as a doctor, would you think twice about changing doctors?

No, because you want to live. And if the Bobcats want to live, they should fire Vincent now before we play another listless, disorganized season.

[dvdbumpus]

Well I could live with Demoting Sam Vincent, but to fire him as head coach. As for the Bobcats training staff, can we get rid of them?

[davcbow]

Well I could live with Demoting Sam Vincent, but to fire him as head coach. As for the Bobcats training staff, can we get rid of them?


I say get rid of the entire lot and start fresh... :g:

[Muttley]

Well I could live with Demoting Sam Vincent, but to fire him as head coach. As for the Bobcats training staff, can we get rid of them?


I say get rid of the entire lot and start fresh... :g:


Yeah, I'd say that we hire an experienced coach and let him pick his assistants. We want to go as far down the path of Cohesion as possible.

[spectre]

A bunch of good posts.  Well said by all!

I agree it'd be hard to keep Vincent on as an assistant but I'd be willing to deal with it.  I just worry that the players have lost so much respect for the guy they'll never take him seriously.

Ohara, to me waiving McInnis signaled that management wasn't behind the move to play Felts at SG.  Remember those official site articles about Felton being the leader?  Felts was the guy who met Swish when he flew in and who got him and Crash together for dinner right after he arrived.  Management also waives Knight and then 2 months later Vincent lamented that we had "lost our starting PG" to Bonnell.

That's all signs to me that management had full intentions of giving Felts the season and see what we really have...and why not; he's up for a contract this summer and decisions will have to be made.  As it stands now they had to get rid of a player just to get a 20 game sample.

And yeah, I'd redo the assistants too. Mokeski hasn't really impressed me at all (looking at our bigs' lack of real growth) and neither has Ford. I know he was "the player's best bud/ players' voice" at UNC, but I want someone who can actually help the players learn.

[ohara831]

I'd really like MJ to sit down with a Players Only meeting at the end of the season and get their input on how Sam did. If they OVERWHELMINGLY want him back, they should keep him. If they feel he just doesn't know what he's doing, then let him go. There are so many things behind closed doors that we dont know about, I would really like the Players to be able to voice their opinion to MJ. That would tell us all something and bring this matter to a conclusion one way or the other. I'm not saying they have the final say - just that if their opinion is OVERWHELMING one way, then mgmnt might should listen.

[Muttley]

I'd really like MJ to sit down with a Players Only meeting at the end of the season and get their input on how Sam did. If they OVERWHELMINGLY want him back, they should keep him. If they feel he just doesn't know what he's doing, then let him go. There are so many things behind closed doors that we dont know about, I would really like the Players to be able to voice their opinion to MJ. That would tell us all something and bring this matter to a conclusion one way or the other. I'm not saying they have the final say - just that if their opinion is OVERWHELMING one way, then mgmnt might should listen.


I think it may also be beneficial for him to talk to them individually about the direction of the team. Obviously, it could take weeks to get through everyone so maybe MJ just sits down with Ray, Jason, Gerald, and Emeka (maybe Matt and Duds too just for different perspectives). I just worry that even in a Players Only meeting, not everyone would be entirely truthful. I like your idea, though.