Real Tough Question

[ohara831]

OK guys. As of tonight's win, we will either be 3 games our of 8th or 2 and 1/2 games out. We also know we have a hellish final month or two with mostly road games. Do we:

a. Make some move to add someone we need who can put us over the top and into real contention, perhaps by trading someone good for someone who can actually help MORE; or by signing someone as a FA since I think we have a spot open?

b. Hold firm and see where it takes us.

I really dont kow yet which way this is going to go. When we hit that tough road streak at the end, even if we are in 7th or 8th spot at the time, I am not sure we can hold that position as the team is now constituted. We are weak defensively on the inside. I mean real weak, and we all know that is true. Every team with a decent Center kills us inside. We were lucky tonight b/c Miller was out for Memphis. They lost their starting SG and pretty much were undermanned all night. But Gasol still whipped us inside. **With our main scoring coming from J-Rich and Wallace, would you consider trading Okafor for someone who can be even more of a Defensive presence inside? I am not sure who that is, but right now, he is just not providing enough Defense inside, and neither is Nazr. Again, it is only a question, as I am trying to figure out IF there is something we can do to be a little better Defensively to give us a real shot at securing a Playoff spot this year.

Be honest. If you want to hold as is, I understand and respect that view. I just think that doing so will mean we will be in contention until the last month, and then fade with all the road games. That would break our hearts to be there in the running until the end and fade. We have the scorers needed to win, we just need to get better defensively inside. If you want to make a move, who do you move, and for whom? Or, do you simply sign a FA out there right now as we have a spot open? I dont see that helping, b/c if someone out there not employed could help defensively, they would already be playing somewhere.

[wil]

Trade Okafor for a Better and more agile PF defender/low post threat.. Who can start at PF. :punch:

Advantage:
Vincent will be forced to start Nazr at C.
GW will be playing SF.
And most of all, IT WILL PUT MCINNIS BACK TO THE BENCH!!! :D :afro:

PS: He played 36 mins tonight btw, with 2 pts on 1-6 fg.. YIKES! :wow1:

[TheBeagle]

B.

There's no reason to mortgage any future for a quick, temporary fix. Absolutely no more trades, unless they are absolute slam dunks. I think getting Jeff out of the starting lineup and either Nazr or Matt in would do even more wonders for this team. We need an upgrade at PG, but there's just not much out there. I was watching NBATV the other day, and apparently CJ Watson is tearing it up in the NBDL. Since we have an open roster spot, I say why not give him a 10 day and see what he can do? It won't be any worse than Jeff, and I've never been a fan of the Boykins talk that some of y'all have championed.

Caveat:

The only trade I'd make (though it would be categorized as a 'slam dunk') is sending Mek and Jared to NO for Chandler and 1st rounder. I know NO would never go for this, but it would be a significant upgrade on O and D, I think :-\

[davcbow]

There's no reason to mortgage any future for a quick, temporary fix. Absolutely no more trades, unless they are absolute slam dunks.

After the way the guys have been playing as of late, I totally agree..... :wink:


I think getting Jeff out of the starting lineup and either Nazr or Matt in would do even more wonders for this team.

Amen to that..... ::)


We need an upgrade at PG, but there's just not much out there.

You'd want to upgrade our great PG? :g:


I was watching NBATV the other day, and apparently CJ Watson is tearing it up in the NBDL. Since we have an open roster spot, I say why not give him a 10 day and see what he can do? It won't be any worse than Jeff, and I've never been a fan of the Boykins talk that some of y'all have championed.

I dont think they would ever do it because what they like about McInnis is his experience in distributing the ball so it frees up Felts. The announcers were talking about that tonight during the Memphis game. I understand the theory but think Felts needs to learn the point this season so he wont be trying to learn it next season..... :g:



The only trade I'd make (though it would be categorized as a 'slam dunk') is sending Mek and Jared to NO for Chandler and 1st rounder. I know NO would never go for this, but it would be a significant upgrade on O and D, I think :-\


If we were going to break the core up this would be the time to do it so we can get it together for next season. As much as Id like to make the playoffs this season it will really be pointless because we wont go that far and gives us less chances for a top pick in the draft. Having said that there isnt no one Id be willing to trade for that that the other team would give up.....

Lets just keep who we have and play some basketball because they are starting to get pretty good...... :g:

[spectre]

CJ Watson is playing with GSW on his 2nd 10 day contract. We missed the boat on that one. I've seen a little of him and he's pretty decent.

Speaking of CJ...his blog on DraftExpress:

CJ Watson: the Call-up (http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Quiet-Storm:-CJ-Watson-Blog/)

Good read, esp. about Nellie not even talking during timeouts.

As Zig posted in the other thread we're 2.5 games back from the 8th spot. I'd keep an ear out because deals can be had right before the deadline, but other than a 10 day to a NBDL PG I'd probably stand pat.

[x2pacalypse]

my question is why wont vincent try felton again at the point? i mean i have a feeling he's learned a lesson...he's been averaging 7-9 assists since mcinnis was brought into the lineup

[ohara831]

I understand what you are saying. But, you are just setting yourselves up for a heartbreak. We are good enough to fight our way into the 7th or 8th spot over the next 6-7 weeks, but there is no question we will fade with the road trip in the final month. We are not strong enough defensively in the middle. Teams with a decent Center and PF crush us nearly every time.

Beagle: Your trade would be very one sided in our favor and you are right that the N.O. Hornets will not do it. Chandler is 2X the player Okafor is, and he is getting better.

I see that my view is going to be in the minority. When the end comes, we will see which path we should have chosen. If we hold onto a Playoff spot, I will happily admit I was wrong. But, I dont see that happening.

I do not advocate selling out the future for a short term fix. However, I do not believe anymore that Okafor is a part of out long term future success. He is getting passed by people left and right which 2 years ago he was much better than but now is worse than. His Defensive presence has diminished greatly and so has his rebounding. Getting animated over ticky tack fouls is the most action we see from him on the floor for 8 out of 10 games. That is why I pushed trying to trade him recently and I still advocate that position. His value is still fairly high because others who do not watch the Bobcats do not see his skills dimished on a nightly basis as we do b/c they are not watching the games. If we hold onto him, we have to deal with the Contract issue next yr, and his trade value will be lower after the rest of the league is able to recap our season.

I feel like we are on a ship that is slowly taking on water and that we know will sink just before reaching port. If I know it, I'd rather do everything to try and find a way to save the ship and get her to port rather than just try to string out the inevitible doom coming. I'd rather fight to the bitter end than go meekly like a lamb to the slaughter. I aint no ones lamb chop.

[Keetch]

Why would anyone seriously want to "free up Felts"? Shooting is not exactly his strength. Driving sometimes. Moving the ball most times. That's what a PG does I think.

How about we "free up" Matt Carroll, Dudley and Nazr instead?

And "lock up" Jeff McInnis.

Also .. O'Hara .. I think we understand that you view Okafor as second-rate. Gotchya. If so, then trade him anytime; now; in two months or next summer. But whatever you do it will not help much for this years playoffs. Highly unlikely you're going to get a better player to take you to a championship at the snap of a finger. More likely you'll screw it up.

I don't think anybody is expecting a long playoff run this year. Just getting there at this point is goal number 1...and that is looking like it could be a very fun ride.

I'm all for winning; that's why they play ball (actually its not; ask any Owner and if they're sincere they'll tell you its not about winning, its about entertainment and sales). Right now the entertainment value is going through the roof and winning is of course a big part of it. Right now Okafor for me is a HUGE part of that entertainment package and I'd be pretty p-o'd if they gave him away. Same for Felton.

We'd be very hard-pressed to replace his defensive presence in the paint. We need to reinforce that with a second PF presence beside him; not toss it away and go around groping for a replacement. Bad-ass blocking Centers are not easy to find in the NBA; and when you've got one, you should value it.

[ohara831]

We'd be very hard-pressed to replace his defensive presence in the paint. We need to reinforce that with a second PF presence beside him; not toss it away and go around groping for a replacement. Bad-ass blocking Centers are not easy to find in the NBA; and when you've got one, you should value it.

__________________________________________________ ___

But Keetch, your statement presupposes we have a bad-ass blocking Center. We dont. Nazr is just as adequate at Defense and offense as Emeka. Look at their numbers. Emeka plays 8 minutes more per game, and averages less than 2 pts and 2 rebounds more. He does avg about a block more. And one is signed for $6 mil and the other turned down $13 mil. I'd rather get a good PF from someone OR a very high draft pick and we then play Dudley as a starter. He shows a fire in him that I have not seen from Okafor in some time. I am watching the games like everyone else, and Okafor is not being the defensive presence he has been in the past, and certainly not the offensive. He was a great Rookie of the Year, but has pretty much failed to advance from that stage forward. Sometimes he plays a heck of a game, but getting that game from him once every 10-12 games is not worthy of being a starter.

[dav7z]

P J Brown could be a great short term solution . Experiance , defence and a nice mid range jumper.
He wouldn't hurt us next year either . Just a good pick up to help us get to the play offs .

[spectre]

Sorry, but Nazr can't hold Mek's jock defensively. He tends to "hack" at players and he doesn't get very good position one on one. If he was our primary defender in the paint he would never see the court...he'd always be in foul trouble.

He's better offensively, but I still maintain that this is due to experience vs. skill.

[dnbman]

We'd be very hard-pressed to replace his defensive presence in the paint. We need to reinforce that with a second PF presence beside him; not toss it away and go around groping for a replacement. Bad-ass blocking Centers are not easy to find in the NBA; and when you've got one, you should value it.
__________________________________________________ ___

But Keetch, your statement presupposes we have a bad-ass blocking Center. We dont. Nazr is just as adequate at Defense and offense as Emeka. Look at their numbers. Emeka plays 8 minutes more per game, and averages less than 2 pts and 2 rebounds more. He does avg about a block more. And one is signed for $6 mil and the other turned down $13 mil. I'd rather get a good PF from someone OR a very high draft pick and we then play Dudley as a starter. He shows a fire in him that I have not seen from Okafor in some time. I am watching the games like everyone else, and Okafor is not being the defensive presence he has been in the past, and certainly not the offensive. He was a great Rookie of the Year, but has pretty much failed to advance from that stage forward. Sometimes he plays a heck of a game, but getting that game from him once every 10-12 games is not worthy of being a starter.
[/quote]

I agree with Keetch here about Okafor. For his shortcomings, he's still one of the better defensive anchors in the league. He needs more defensive help playing the other big and needs to learn when to go for a block and when to simply contest, eliminating some of the needless fouls that take him out of the flow of a game.

One big problem people are having is separating Okafor's play from the fact that he turned down the contract extension. I understand the sense of betrayal compounded with play that hasn't been awe inspiring for most of the season. However, he's still a tremendous part of our team that makes big contributions when he's not in foul trouble. Usually when we're victorious, it's because both Nazr and Emeka made they're mark on the game, not either/or. We need to keep both of those guys and add a starting caliber PF, allowing Nazr to be a super-sub for us.

Right now we have several important pieces and several pieces of filler. Rather than trying to trade important piece for important piece, we need keep what we have and acquire through draft or free agency the pieces we need, cutting the filler to make room. I know with the cap we can't get the ideal players each time. However, we should have enough wiggle room to draft a solid contributor and sign another.

I'd much rather play the season out with what we have than trade a potential cornerstone like Okafor based on a down year. Keep in mind, our rotation and system has been in shambles for most of the year. We shouldn't judge individual talent based on under-performing as a result of poor coaching/managing.

[Keetch]

O'Hara...its okay to disagree with me, because I'm an unabashed homer; but I'd be listening to Spectre, he knows what he's talking about. :)

Ok "bad ass" may be over the top....but in my opinion Emeka Okafor is a potentially great center that is having difficulties adjusting to this team, this year; and so has had his confidence knocked down. Trading him now though is just a really really bad idea. Not a Real Tough Question at all. See that .. BLATANT HOMERISM :wink:

EDIT: I'd listen to DNBMAN too; now that dude REALLY knows his basketball!!

[ammofan]

I think Okafor will get traded.....on RealGM.com it says that the clippers have received alot of phone calls about trades.....maybe on of those phone calls came from us??

I really like Emeka but he is just not performing this season like he should. He was our first ever pick (2nd overall) and he should be the leader of this team. It would be sad to see him go but, If we were to make the playoffs by making a trade using him then we would all be happy.

Below is my list of players I would enjoy seeing Okafor traded for:

1. Amare Stoudamire(We will not get him but why not try??)
2. Pau Gasol(Rumors say that we have a standing offer with the Grizz but Pau has been playing so well as of late that I dont know why they would trade him!)
3. Elton Brand(he is injured and I dont know whow much longer whe will be out but when he is healthy he can really go into beast mode!!)
4. Zach Randolph/Nate Robinson(or someothers off the Knicks-- possibly Balkman/Lee/Robinson/and a 2nd rounder? LOL IDK)
5. Bargnani/Calderon(Neither one are stars but both are young and VERY VERY capable of making big plays. I have heard rumors that Bargnani could be traded.....Calderon on the other hand is getting alot of attention around the league for his strong play this season - He is starting because TJ Ford is hurt)
6. Josh smith(Many Cats fans say that he would not work well with Crash and J-Rich but I think it would be deadly for other teams to have to play us with that big 3!!)

Any other trade ideas?

[ohara831]

Ammofan: How about this for a gamble with possible big implications for our Playoff chances:

We send NY Knicks:
Ray Felton - 13.6 pts and 7.1 assts (now listed as SG on team website)
Okafor - 12.8 pts and 10 reb
Our 2nd round draft pick in 08

We receive:
Nate Robinson 11.5 pts and 2.5 assts in only 22 min per game
Zach Randolph - 17 pts and 10 reb per game
NY Knicks 1rst round draft pick in 08

Our starting lineup:
Nate Robinson - PG
J-Rich - SG
Crash - SF
Randloph - PF
Nazr - Center
**This gives us a starting 5 avg about 7 more pts per game, gives us a solid front line, Defense still lacking some but offset some with increased point output, AND it also gives us Knicks 1st rounder - definitely a Lottery pick. What do you think of that possibility? It increases our chance at Playoffs this yr, and gives us a Lottery pick to go towards our future.

[Muttley]

P J Brown could be a great short term solution . Experiance , defence and a nice mid range jumper.
He wouldn't hurt us next year either . Just a good pick up to help us get to the play offs .


I would doubt he'd get up off the couch for the Bobcats. More likely he wants to go to a title contender.

... would not do the NY trade.

[Keetch]

sheesh have fun guys; I'm just thankful you all don't run the Bobcats....

[dnbman]

That line-up would be terrible. Nate has a nack for volume scoring when it doesn't mean much. He can ball, but he's more of a side show than a guy you want to run your team. Zach brings scoring, but little in terms of heart or defense. He might keep us close, but he's not going to deep down deep to play us into many victories.

Truly, we need to wait and see. Okafor's been playing with a fair amount of intensity lately. Fouls are the only thing keeping him from having games with big numbers. Numbers aside, he's still having significant effect on ball games.

If we're truly convinced he's not the guy at the end of the season, I'd rather relinquish his rights and use the cap space for one of the great FA bigs. Right now we're simply not going to get good value for him unless it involves draft picks, which obviously won't help us one iota in the playoffs.

[ohara831]

But Dnbman, even if the players traded end up being a wash, does not picking up the NY 1st in 08 not tilt the trade to our favor? I think the trade considering the players alone wouild benefit us. I think if Robinson plays 35 minutes, he will be a solid starting PG. I know that Zach does not bring the Defense of Okafor, but his offense more than makes us for that, plus he can take the ball outside much better than Okafor which draws the opposition Defense out more. The pick is like the cherry on top.
I respect your analysis, but we just must disagree on the value of Okafor and the value of this trade. So be it. We can just agree to disagree.

[ohara831]

Also, I know some people have concerns about the "attitude" of Zach Randolph. I will not down play that as a risk. But winning is a good cure for attitude. People thought that TO was going to implode in Dallas this year, but he didn't. He had a great year. And people thought NE was crazy to take on Randy Moss as a team chemistry killer. Uh, he just led the NFL in TDs and broke records along the way. Sometimes it does not work out, but sometimes it does. If he is happy and enjoying his Bobcats teammates and the fans, and we are winning and getting into the Playoffs, I think Randolph would be just fine in Charlotte.

[dnbman]

Also, I know some people have concerns about the "attitude" of Zach Randolph. I will not down play that as a risk. But winning is a good cure for attitude. People thought that TO was going to implode in Dallas this year, but he didn't. He had a great year. And people thought NE was crazy to take on Randy Moss as a team chemistry killer. Uh, he just led the NFL in TDs and broke records along the way. Sometimes it does not work out, but sometimes it does. If he is happy and enjoying his Bobcats teammates and the fans, and we are winning and getting into the Playoffs, I think Randolph would be just fine in Charlotte.


Let's put it this way: Portland is FAR better this year than last, and they're not even playing their lottery pick. One of the biggest differences is the absence of Randolph in favor of more passionate youngsters.

People tend to look at statistics and think you can take 10 points of offense from one player off and add 20 points more from another player. But it doesn't work that way. Guys feed off of each other, and defense and offense feed off each other. That's the beauty of basketball: five guys on the court join play in unison to create something greater than their collective sums. Nate and Randolph aren't guys that do that.

Don't get me wrong; I'd add both of them to what we have in place. Nate would be a nice spark plug off the bench, and we could definitely use Randolph's inside scoring. However, neither of them are guys I want to be in our top 4 or 5 players.

Granted, that first pick would be nice, but I doubt we'd get one. In all honesty, I think Isiah's interesting trades have stopped, as I don't think he's going to be making decisions for the Knicks much longer. Future management will probably value Randolph more than Curry. I'm guessing that Randolph sticks around and becomes scoring centerpiece for whoever takes over that mess.

[spectre]

“(I like) the aggressive play that we have and the camaraderie amongst the team,” said Wallace. “Everybody is starting to understand their roles offensively and defensively. Our defense is a whole lot better, our offense is a whole lot better, we’re running up and down the court a lot more, we’re limiting transition points from the other teams, and we’re just being more aggressive.”

This is what our best player is saying...do we want to mess with that since they've been playing so well lately?

You guys need to go to the NYK RealGM boards and read the threads about Randolph. There's a reason everyone gets better when he leaves and worse after he arrives. No way whatsover we trade for him or his bloated contract. The Bobcats know that would be a killer in a small market and that's what ultimately matters...you don't think all teams play so much country music as we did during last night's game do ya?

[twebb]

PLEASE DONT TRADE OAK. He has been a great franchise guy and also a great character. He is a consistent double double and adds size, STRENGTH, Shot Blocking/Contesting, and most importantly rebounding. He was never supposed to drop 20 pts a game, or even 15 for that matter. But he is one hell of a PF/C and is a member of our core. He is still young and he has helped fuel our little run as of late. I cant believe you guys want to trade someone who is the second best C in our division behind Dwight Howard (and I think Okafor is not that far behind him).

[Cantgetright]

Not far behind Howard?????????????? Howard is one of the top 5 big men in the entire league IMHO and will be the best in about 3 years.

It doesn't make alot of sense to trade Okafor. If I was the Bobcats I would try to resign him for 10 million a year in the offseason and hope like hell we can sign Jamison for the MLE. If not I would relinquish Okafor's rights and offer Josh Smith the max to be our starting PF and go with an athletic lineup and try to pick up a young Center in the draft like Jordan, Hibbert, Thabeet, or Lopez.

Felton
Richardson
Wallace
Smith
Nazr/Rookie Center

Would be an unstoppable lineup on both ends of the floor.

I also like
Felton
Richardson
Wallace
Jamison
Okafor

[TheBeagle]

CJ Watson is playing with GSW on his 2nd 10 day contract. We missed the boat on that one. I've seen a little of him and he's pretty decent.

OK. Thanks for the update.....and, ohara, no way on the Knicks trade: the Spud Webb wannabe is a downgrade of Raymond; Randolph is a shorter, less-talented, more mercurial Kevin Duckworth, so at best it's a wash with Mek. How about just trading our 2nd rounder for their 1st? ::) Hell, the way that organziation is run, they might just go for it :biggrin:

[ohara831]

I just don't get all the love for Okafor. He has failed to improve his numbers since his Rookie year. Don't beleive me? Look at the numbers:

04-05 15.1 pts and 10.9 reb (ROY)
05-06 13.2 pts and 10.0 reb
06-07 14.4 pts and 11.3 reb
07-08 12.8 pts and 10.9 reb

Okafor has failed to progress ANY since his Rookie year! I remember his Rookie year, and afterwards everyone was saying that by yr #3 he would be a consistent 20 pts and 15 reb man (which is only asking for 5 more pts and 2 more reb. from Rookie year) He hasn't come close. He's regressed!!

Does that disappoint me? Hell yes!! And it should you as well. What GOOD NBA player can you name me who never did better stats-wise than his Rookie year? The answer: No one. That is why he is tradeable in my eyes. He is not our franchise player, and will never be our franchise player. He is only a below avg to avg PF, and a good back up to play the Center spot when occasionally needed. Period. The numbers do not lie. So slow up on all the man love for Okafor b/c he's not all that and a bag of chips.

[dnbman]

That's pretty faulty logic though. Regardless of how he improves, what he does do is hard to replace. The biggest issue is he has is the drop in offensive production. However, his rookie year he wasn't competing for touches with anyone and was more of the focus of the offense. The people expecting him to score 20+ points a game were believing that his scoring numbers were a result of him being a great scorer; he's not. He's apparently developing some moves, but he's always earned his minutes through rebounding and defense. Leading up to the draft, folks were talking about how he was limited offensively.

To put what he is doing in perspective, count the number of guys who average a double-double and 1.5 block shots a game; you're talking about 7 other guys in the entire league. That number gets smaller when the blocks go to 2.0, which Okafor should be able to average once we get our rotation sorted out and he's not gambling as much.

[ohara831]

That's pretty faulty logic though. Regardless of how he improves, what he does do is hard to replace. The biggest issue is he has is the drop in offensive production. However, his rookie year he wasn't competing for touches with anyone and was more of the focus of the offense. The people expecting him to score 20+ points a game were believing that his scoring numbers were a result of him being a great scorer; he's not. He's apparently developing some moves, but he's always earned his minutes through rebounding and defense. Leading up to the draft, folks were talking about how he was limited offensively.

To put what he is doing in perspective, count the number of guys who average a double-double and 1.5 block shots a game; you're talking about 7 other guys in the entire league. That number gets smaller when the blocks go to 2.0, which Okafor should be able to average once we get our rotation sorted out and he's not gambling as much.
__________________________________________________ ____

When a man fails to improve his numbers for 3 straight years after his Rookie year, you have to do funny math to find any kind of success story. He is not in the top 7 as a Center or a PF. I would gladly give up 1 of his 1.5 blocks if he was giving us 7 more pts and 3 more rebs. He is not worth the money and if we can get something in return, I'd move him. I know you would not, and we likely will not. I just think in the end it will cost us and hurt us dearly.

[dav7z]

Ohara , I agree with you about all the love Oakfor gets on this board . As i tend to think he is over valued myself.
Hes solid but not 65 milion solid. I would like to see him next to a scoring four with size.He is never going to be a franchize player like we wanted . But should be servicable for years to come as long as we add pieces beside him. Contract value in my openion hes worth about 8 milion a year NO more.I to want to stay put for the most part . I would just like us to pick up a solid defencive two guard or combo guard out the D league or as a free agent. We playing to much zone and its going to bite us in the ass ,and Mcinnis can't play man to man defence.

[ohara831]

Ohara , I agree with you about all the love Oakfor gets on this board . As i tend to think he is over valued myself.
Hes solid but not 65 milion solid. I would like to see him next to a scoring four with size.He is never going to be a franchize player like we wanted . But should be servicable for years to come as long as we add pieces beside him. Contract value in my openion hes worth about 8 milion a year NO more.I to want to stay put for the most part . I would just like us to pick up a solid defencive two guard or combo guard out the D league or as a free agent. We playing to much zone and its going to bite us in the ass ,and Mcinnis can't play man to man defence.
__________________________________________________ _

Dav7z: I fear that although Okafor may be worthy of $8-9 mil per yr, I cannot see him staying with us for less than we offered last yr. Just to save face, he will go with someone who is better suited for a Playoff run deep into the Playoffs. Our compensation will be cheap then, so I'd rather get the value now when someone may overpay us. But, your argumennts are sound and I respect them totally. We will see how things play out.

[dnbman]

When a man fails to improve his numbers for 3 straight years after his Rookie year, you have to do funny math to find any kind of success story.


I'm not looking for individual success stories; I'm looking for what wins championships. We need a solid defensive presence, and despite some short comings, Okafor can be that defensive presence.

We don't want to give up on the guy just because he's not Tim Duncan or Elton Brand. He's still very valuable.

[amour217]

IF we make a deal, I hope it's something smart: like a good rebounding, scoring PF like Gasol...

...but I Have this weird feeling that the 'Cats are gonna look into someone like Jermaine O'Neal. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a beast...but he's never healthy, which is always a concern.

[dav7z]

I think we will stay with what we got til seasons end .But the downfall of that is we don't resign OK50 for one reason or another. [EITHER HIM OR US] not coming to terms.
Then we loose a lot in value , Draft picks and or a nice player. So the Bobcats organisation needs to decide if OK50 is going to be in the teams long term plans.Im sure he was befor season started but not so sure of it now.
I don't know the market that well but do know teams are talking of trading for him and what they would give.
Golden state board was trying to come up with somthings.
Either way that desision needs to be made befor the trade deadline. So we get that compansation if we dont keep him. After trade deadline we commited.

[davcbow]

Maybe MJ needs to have one of famous sitdown (bud to bud) type meetings with Mek and just find out whats going on with him. You can find out quite alot about a person just hanging out for a day with them. I know it maybe sounds nutz but it is the truth. Id hate to see Mek end up having to be traded in order to upgrade the team, because he is better than that. I think once this season is over and we are rid of Harrington, McInnis, and Anderson, draft our draft picks and maybe pull off another JSwish type trade (could happen again) get May (KK) and Morrison back, we should be alot better talent wise than we are now. If after all that Mek still isnt doing good then trade but I think alot of his troubles are having to play 4 on 5 basketball with McInnis on the floor.... :g:

[spectre]

You're looking at total numbers. Look at Mek's FG% his rookie season and realize his efficiency has improved immensely...exactly what you'd want from a guy who's gone from the only real option to having other offensive threats.

Next year Philly is really the only team with the capspace open to take Mek from us straight up. They also have Dalembert. It's not enough that a contending team is willing to pay Mek 15 million, WE have to do a S&T in order for that to happen...and that does NOT mean we'll get a crappy return. If we don't like it Mek can go play with them for the MLE and we get capspace (worst case).

So far as what Mek's worth...look at Nene. Look at Chandler. Dalembert. All these guys get between 10-12 million per year. Mek is as good as these guys.

[MattD]

So far as what Mek's worth...look at Nene. Look at Chandler. Dalembert. All these guys get between 10-12 million per year. Mek is as good as these guys.


HA. HA. Youre kidding right? Chandler, Nene... no way, Dalembert is overpaid and hurts his team for that reason. Nene in shape and healthy is a beast, straight up. Chandler is a big step up from Mek and CONSISTENT.

I have been saying it over and over again, meks biggest problem is not his averages, its his inconsistency, it cripples any team who needs to have a player who can help. You don't help the team when you go out one night and drop 17 and 12 and the next night 5 and 3. It's like last years bobcats, everynight they had a different high scorer and how did they do... not well.

[dnbman]

I don't understand your descriptions of the players at all.

Perhaps Dalembert is overpaid, but he still does a lot of things underneath the basket. It's not his fault that big guys who can block, score, and block shots are in demand and thus earn a lot of money.

Meanwhile, your boy Nene has had a dozen games, a whole lot of dnps, and has yet to show anyone that he's remotely consistent. His best season was four years ago, where much of his hype came from fantasy players loving his steal numbers. Yet, he gets paid tons.

Chandler is in no way a big step up from Okafor, although you could argue he's more consistent. However, he's in a solid system where his role is spelled out for all to see. Okafor has been dealing with position changes and now mixing time with Nazr as Vincent decides who should play and when.

The conversation is moot anyway, because, like Spectre said, nobody can pay Mek big dollars without relinquishing the rights of a significant free agent. But if they take Mek from us, we'd be the prime player to sign one of the other great free agents.

I just don't think he's going anywhere. Only a few teams can offer him much of anything, and he has nothing else to gain by going to any of them unless he's taking the MLE from a serious playoff contender. But he'd be giving up a LOT of money in order to get a ring, which probably isn't the brightest thing for a player to do this early in his career.

[MattD]

Did you see Nene in the playoffs? He was sick. He may be injury prone, but I think he is on a spell of bad luck... a testicular tumour, comeon thats not fair, and a torn ligament in your thumb could happen to anyone. But yes he is injury prone, but I would rather have him on the bobcats then Mek healthy. Aka Meks not worth 10million

[davcbow]

Fair? In a business environment? No such word. Im wondering what they will do with May if he cant go next season, Morrison too! I dont think its fair for a team to have to keep paying someone when they havent played a half season in 3 years... :g:

[dnbman]

Did you see Nene in the playoffs? He was sick. He may be injury prone, but I think he is on a spell of bad luck... a testicular tumour, comeon thats not fair, and a torn ligament in your thumb could happen to anyone. But yes he is injury prone, but I would rather have him on the bobcats then Mek healthy. Aka Meks not worth 10million


You're talking about a few games in the playoffs. To put that in perspective, Nocioni, Marquis Daniels, and Kwame Brown have all had great playoff games.

Let's trade Okafor for Robert Horry!

Nene on a regular basis is a solid player. However, I'd rather have a fired up Mek over a fired up Nene any day. We still have much of the season to go, and he's really just now starting to play like he should.

[spectre]

So far as what Mek's worth...look at Nene. Look at Chandler. Dalembert. All these guys get between 10-12 million per year. Mek is as good as these guys.


HA. HA. Youre kidding right? Chandler, Nene... no way, Dalembert is overpaid and hurts his team for that reason. Nene in shape and healthy is a beast, straight up. Chandler is a big step up from Mek and CONSISTENT.

I have been saying it over and over again, meks biggest problem is not his averages, its his inconsistency, it cripples any team who needs to have a player who can help. You don't help the team when you go out one night and drop 17 and 12 and the next night 5 and 3. It's like last years bobcats, everynight they had a different high scorer and how did they do... not well.

Heh, "in shape and healthy". That's not happened in like 5 seasons. Regardless, Nene has NEVER averaged more than 7 rebounds per game and barely double figures in scoring. THAT'S worth 10 million per year???

Since you didn't like my list why don't you name some PF/C players who average a double/double and shoots over 50% from the field making the MLE? Drew Gooden is close (8 million) but he doesn't play defense and even with that his salary is considered a bargain.

I mean...since Mek is so easy to replace and all. Let's see the options.

[dnbman]

OT: You just posted your 666th post! sweet! :rock:

[ohara831]

Well. the point is moot. I read on ESPN Insider a qoute from Coach Vincent in the Gaston Gazette. Bobcats are not making any trades just to get into the Playoffs. Oh well, they tried. See what happens next yr.

[MattD]

good... and seriously mek is the most undependable player on our team. One night he will play great 17 points 12 rebs, the next night he will have 5 points and 5 rebounds... thats where he screws us.

His averages are dandy, but they dont show the real story!

[spectre]

Good article.

Bobcats' playoff folly (http://www.gastongazette.com/sports/games_15760___article.html/points_year.html)

MattD no one's arguing that at all...Mek has been somewhat of a disappointment. Regardless of that we have to realize what he does still bring and how hard it would be to replace, esp. in cost and difficulty.

[dav7z]

I like Mek even though his game has got no better. He is a defencive stoper, but his offence is very inconsistant.
Asuming we resign him what do you think his value is.Hes not the franchize player we hoped . But a nice role player.
Considering what Wallace signed for. What Nazr makes, What Chandler makes as well as Nene and Gooden.
1st Consider the market.
2nd Players hes closest to in ability,Chandler and Gooden. I think hes a little better than Gooden but not as good as Chandler.
3rd Consider what our players are making for team harmney.He shouldn't make more than Wallace because it might piss your star off. But should mahe more than NAZR because he starts over him and is a better defencive presence.
4th Meks pay will determine what FELTON and MAY gets if we keep them also Morrison . So we can't overpay hear.
Considering all the things i factored in just my thoughts.
Mek should get somthing like a six year 51 milion dollar contract. Thats 8 and a half milion a year over six years.
Thats unless his play gets much better the second half of the season CONTRACT YEAR , Should of took the 65 milion and run.

[ohara831]

Guys, you are not factoring in the "human elements" - ego and pride. I know that the Team may be in the driver's seat when it comes to ponying up the most money for Okafor compared to other teams out there, but we would be absolute morons to approach $13 mil again. And, do you not think that his ego and pride might likely push him away if we say "Hey, you stunk it up this year. Your value is more around $8.5 mil to $9.5 mil" Do not underestimate how someone may have his/her pride hurt, feel humiliated in his/her community, and just take less money to get the heck out of dodge and start anew somewhere else. His value to the Bobcats does not surpass that of Crash or J-Rich. When they get hot, they are game changers. Not so with Okafor.

[MattD]

Not so with Okafor.


yep tonight he played well, 21 and 10 but we lost... he cannot carry a team to a win like Jrich or Gerald can

[dnbman]

Guys, you are not factoring in the "human elements" - ego and pride. I know that the Team may be in the driver's seat when it comes to ponying up the most money for Okafor compared to other teams out there, but we would be absolute morons to approach $13 mil again. And, do you not think that his ego and pride might likely push him away if we say "Hey, you stunk it up this year. Your value is more around $8.5 mil to $9.5 mil" Do not underestimate how someone may have his/her pride hurt, feel humiliated in his/her community, and just take less money to get the heck out of dodge and start anew somewhere else. His value to the Bobcats does not surpass that of Crash or J-Rich. When they get hot, they are game changers. Not so with Okafor.


Maybe, but I doubt he's going to take that much less. Mek will still get in the neighborhood of $10M, which is much more than he'd get elsewhere. Plus we can give him more years. Considering he's already had an injury, he'd be a fool not to take it so long as the team looked to be still on the rise.

The other thing is that Mek still has a lot of love in Charlotte. While fanboys on websites question him, the casual fan loves him. I'm sure he appreciates being a local hero and still the face of the franchise, despite Wallace and Richardson's incredible play this year.

I just don't think he's going anywhere. While I didn't watch the Spurs game, we seem to be playing a much more cohesive game with everyone starting to be more successful. I think we'll continue that trend and finish strong even if our record is under .500. Okafor will realize we're not that far away and stick around.

I also think the last couple of months he'll justify that $10M and continue to do so for the rest of his career.

[ohara831]

Dnbman: IF he gets his game back to where he was points and rebounds-wise and then improves on that a little, I ahve no problem paying him $10 mil. I just dont know if he has it in him, though. Let's watch the last two months as you said and see how he does. We know ownership is somewhat stingy, so you know they will pay him only what they think they have to in order to keep him. No rewards for past performance like we showed Crash and Carroll.

[MattD]

Maybe, but I doubt he's going to take that much less. Mek will still get in the neighborhood of $10M, which is much more than he'd get elsewhere. Plus we can give him more years. Considering he's already had an injury, he'd be a fool not to take it so long as the team looked to be still on the rise.


and wed be a fool to give it to him

[dnbman]

We wouldn't be fools for giving it to him. That's what players of his caliber make. Talented bigs are rare. Most are blue collar types that keep their teams competitive, but aren't good enough to make their teams serious playoff contenders. Emeka is the kind of forward who can play big time ball against big time players.

Truly, the beginning of this season brought tremendous growing pains for the franchise and many of its players. I was one of the first to start saying that Okafor's offensive skill set was lacking and overrated. However, his presence on the court is huge, even without huge scoring. We don't want to get rid of him because he scores 13 points instead of 17. He'll make than make up that couple of buckets with his presence in the paint and rebounding.

[Keetch]

We also don't want to give up on such a quality person and player when he's being coached by freaking morons badly coached; and I think Emeka knows what he's dealing with. One thing Emeka Okafor is not; is stupid.

Edited to delete my late night NY colloquialism :)

[ohara831]

We also don't want to give up on such a quality person and player when he's in the midst of being coached by freaking morons; and I think Emeka knows what he's dealing with. One thing Emeka Okafor is not; is stupid.
__________________________________________________ ____

But this downward turn is not just this yr. He has not improved stat wise since his Rookie yr. Not fair to blame coach Vincent for that unless you want to include Bernie in your classification as "moron". Then, you are being consistent.

[Keetch]

Well I think "moron" is a bit harsh; ...but a bad coach? Yeah, Bernie was a pretty bad coach.