2008 Draft - Team Needs

[ziggy]

Its a shame that I have this summer's draft on my mind already and its only February. But thinking about the draft gives me less of a headache than thinking about Ham Biscuit's coaching.
What do you guys think is our biggest need(s) in this summer's draft?
I'm assuming that we'll be looking at point guards since "Coach" doesn't seem to put a lot of faith in Ray. Also, you can never have too much size, so If a big man like Beasley or Hibbert is on the board I'm assuming that you'd have to take a look at them too.

What are our biggest needs?

[Muttley]

What are our biggest needs?


Winning in the Lottery?

Really, though, I've been convinced by the fine folks on this site that we need a PG. If we could get one of the top 3, then we'd be doing pretty well for ourselves. For that matter, we could even hang on to Ray in the hope that the two would improve each other's game through friendly competition for the starter's gig.

Hell, whoever we draft, I'm sure bad coaching will ruin them too.
Can we draft a replacement for Sammy?

[Dead_Real]

It all depends on our first round draft position if it's anything in the top 5 we just need to go with the best player available. I'm thinking the top 5 will look like Beasley, Rose, Gordon, DJ and either Mayo or Hibbert. Anything after the top 5 we go with team needs which seems to be a point guard or a banger big man.

[ohara831]

It all depends on our first round draft position if it's anything in the top 5 we just need to go with the best player available. I'm thinking the top 5 will look like Beasley, Rose, Gordon, DJ and either Mayo or Hibbert. Anything after the top 5 we go with team needs which seems to be a point guard or a banger big man.
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I agree with your top 4. But the concensus is Mayo has fallen almost out of Top 10. Hibbert has also since he is showing difficulty on running the floor which hurts on an NBA team. Most dont like to run a half court offense all the time. That is the same reason why Hansbrough is not listed as going until the end of the 1st. They are just not athletic enough to run the floor to satisfy most GMs.

[amour217]

I think we need a PG with legitimate PG skills...a "shoot first" PG does nothing for us, really. If not, we need a PF who's not afraid to be a bruiser inside. We definitely don't need one of those 6'10" SF/SG types who fall in love with the 3 and won't touch the paint.

Another thing we need to keep in mind is the players' skill set in terms of their competition: are they dominating lesser talent? and if so, will that transfer to being useful in the pros?

It's going to be an interesting draft, IMO....it'll start great if we get some help in the lottery.

[ohara831]

I think we need a PG with legitimate PG skills...a "shoot first" PG does nothing for us, really. If not, we need a PF who's not afraid to be a bruiser inside. We definitely don't need one of those 6'10" SF/SG types who fall in love with the 3 and won't touch the paint.

Another thing we need to keep in mind is the players' skill set in terms of their competition: are they dominating lesser talent? and if so, will that transfer to being useful in the pros?

It's going to be an interesting draft, IMO....it'll start great if we get some help in the lottery.
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Well said!! I agree with every single thing you said!!

[Dead_Real]

It all depends on our first round draft position if it's anything in the top 5 we just need to go with the best player available. I'm thinking the top 5 will look like Beasley, Rose, Gordon, DJ and either Mayo or Hibbert. Anything after the top 5 we go with team needs which seems to be a point guard or a banger big man.
__________________________________________________ __

I agree with your top 4. But the concensus is Mayo has fallen almost out of Top 10. Hibbert has also since he is showing difficulty on running the floor which hurts on an NBA team. Most dont like to run a half court offense all the time. That is the same reason why Hansbrough is not listed as going until the end of the 1st. They are just not athletic enough to run the floor to satisfy most GMs.

Yea I've seen some mocks have Mayo falling out of the top 10 mainly because GM's might be scared away because of his off the court issues. Still though with his upside I see a team in the lottery taking a chance on him since his style of play is perfect for the league.

I think we all agree that point and a big are a big need I'd be happy with Bayless in the first (if we are not in the top 3 obviously) and a banger big in Joey Dorsey with the second pick.

[ohara831]

Bayless and Dorsey would be 2 quality picks, no doubt. The way things are going tho, I think we are quite possbibly in line to pick in the top 5. We will be passed by the clippers and Knicks soon. I think Miami, although far behind right now, will be much better with the Matrix in the game. They will make up some ground now. If the ping pong ball Gods were nice, maybe maybe we have a shot at Beasely, Rose, or Jordan.

[Slam]

1 - Beasley
2 - Rose
3 - Hibbert
4 - DJ
5 - Thabeet
6 - Collison

[ohara831]

Slam: Is that your list of who you would take first if we have a Top 6 pick? Interesting. I am skeptical of Hibbert b/c I dont think he runs the floor well enough and we are trying to become a running team. I think I'd insert Jarryd Bayless into my Top 6.

[Slam]

Yes.

Bayless is a little too much of a shooter and not enough of a passer for me.

I also like the idea of Greene (if he can play the 4), Griffin and Thabeet might be climbing up my board.

I like the idea of Hibbert because he will increase our bbiq, help with our ball movement and enable us to run the offense through him from the high post.

[ohara831]

You know, we are good with J-Rich and Crash at the 2 and 3. But if you read ESPN, nbadraft.net and other sources, they are all starting to move this Danilo Gallinari kid up the boards. ESPN has him #6 and nbadraft.net has him #12. He is 19 yr old from Italy. Listed as a SF at 6-9 and 212. Kind of a Detlef Schremf player, they say will be better than Bargnani. I am beginning to give the Europeans their due credit as they have shown in the last 5 yrs that they have some high quality players. If we are picking 8-12, I might consider him. I know that would mean maybe moving Crash to the 4, but I hate the thought of passing on a great talent for a posisiton player we might need. That is the kind of thinking that has people passing on All Stars. If he is that good, we will find a way to use him.

[CMc$]

It all depends on our first round draft position if it's anything in the top 5 we just need to go with the best player available. I'm thinking the top 5 will look like Beasley, Rose, Gordon, DJ and either Mayo or Hibbert. Anything after the top 5 we go with team needs which seems to be a point guard or a banger big man.
__________________________________________________ __

I agree with your top 4. But the concensus is Mayo has fallen almost out of Top 10. Hibbert has also since he is showing difficulty on running the floor which hurts on an NBA team. Most dont like to run a half court offense all the time. That is the same reason why Hansbrough is not listed as going until the end of the 1st. They are just not athletic enough to run the floor to satisfy most GMs.


You can say some things about Hansbrough (travels sometimes, has no vertical game or low post defense), but one thing that is just incredibly dead wrong is that he can't run the floor. For a big man, his perimeter defense and ability to run the floor are two of his strong suits. I don't see you listing him with Hibbert as "too slow for the NBA"

Oh, and I'd like a "detlef schrempf type of player". I miss Det the Threat. Those Sonics teams were alot of fun to watch back then.

[ohara831]

OK. With Crash getting floored playing the 4 with guys so much bigger, I've decided against small ball and playing Crash anywhere other than the 3. With that said, I think we look at a PF, Center or PG. It depends on who is available when we pick. Here what i see.

PG: Rose, Augustin and Bayless are the top 3, and they go in that order. Rose is gone in the first 3 picks.

PF: Beasley is going to be a Beast. He is so far ahead of the others, they are not worth mentioning in the same breath. They are good, but he is Great. That said, if we landed a Center or PG in our lottery pick, and made a trade to get a pick in the mid to late teens, I think Love from UCLA would be awesome to snare on top of the PG or Center taken before him.

Center: I love DeAndre Jordan, and he would be my preference. But, so not sneeze at Brook Lopez from Stanford. That guy is a monster and will be a very solid Center.

My preference: We have to trade Carroll and something else of significant value - Ray or Okafor. We need to get another Lottery pick or something immediately thereafter. If we can fill 2 holes with 2 high quality Rookies, and get rid of a bad Contract or potential bad Contract, we will have done a great job.
example: Draft Jordan (C) and Augustin (PG) and have traded Carroll and either Ray or Okafor
Draft Augustin (PG) and Love(PF) and receive an additional late 1st round pick for Okafor trade.

Right now, we are in a bad way with Contract which are going to hurt us for the next 3 years. Dumping Carroll's Contract and avoiding having to pay Okafor $13 mil is crucial. Now, if he can down to Crash's range of $9.5 mil, I'd reconsider. Play our new Rookies with J-Rich and Crash and probably Nazr. Get some reasonablness to our Contractual obligations and we'll be OK.

[amour217]

The problem with Jordan is that he is a DEFINITE project...and a 40% free throw shooter...which, as shown by the Kings game, we don't need.

So we have to decide not only what position we need most, but also whether we want an nba-ready player or another project. I think Brook Lopez is worth a look if we're looking to go for a big: he's tough as nails and has very good footwork and a nice touch on his shot. We've also mentioned Donte Greene on here as well....if he declares for the draft, he'd be a nice big man too, as he has a good inside-outside game...my only concern is whether he'll fall completely in love with the 3-ball and just be Rashard Lewis for us...we don't need that. He is, however, showing to be a good shot-blocker, which always helps.

[ohara831]

You are right about Green, and he can defend the 4. But he really needs a little more weight to play an NBA 4. That is my only real concern.

Re: Jordan. Yes, he is a project. But so was Dwight Howard and they are saying he is just like Howard. Considering we are going to be facing him in our Division for years to come, we have to have someone at Center to counter him.

[Muttley]

You are right about Green, and he can defend the 4. But he really needs a little more weight to play an NBA 4. That is my only real concern.

Re: Jordan. Yes, he is a project. But so was Dwight Howard and they are saying he is just like Howard. Considering we are going to be facing him in our Division for years to come, we have to have someone at Center to counter him.


If we've gotta trade Carroll plus one of Ray or Okafor, I'd rather it be Ray. This is because if we trade Okafor for a pick, then use the two picks to get a PF/C and PG, then we're still in the position that our Big men have no help from the bench, really. Of course, the same can be said for the Point position if we trade away Ray, but I feel like guards are easier to come by than big men.

All that said... would it really take Carroll PLUS Oak or Ray to get a first rounder?

[ohara831]

I think to get a Lottery pick in the top 10 it would. Ray or Okafor alone would get you a mid 1st rounder, and Carroll alone likely a 1st rounder around pick 25.

[Slam]

I think Love from UCLA would be awesome to snare on top of the PG or Center taken before him.

Center: I love DeAndre Jordan, and he would be my preference.

I've NEVER liked playing Crash as a a 2 or a 4. He's a 3, he plays best there, so I agree with you on that.

Love will be this years Ammo. He looks good in college but his flaws will be SERIOUSLY exposed in the NBA. I like Love at UCLA, but don't think he'll do nearly as well in the NBA.

Jordan is looking like a bust and is said to already be having trouble with the coaches at Texas A&M. Sounds like his ego might be bigger than his game and his IQ might match his ft%.

[ohara831]

Slam: I dont see Love being a bust. I think he'll be alright at the PF position as he runs the floor fairly well -not great but OK. I see Tyler H. as the likely bust as I dont like the way he runs the floor. He's good in a half court setting, but that's it.

I have not heard anythng bad about Jordan. Where did you read that he is becoming a malcontent. I know he plays only about 20 min per game as he is only a FR, but his numbers are great for that time. **But if you look at nbadraft,net, they have Brook Lopez going ahead of Jordan now. He's well in the top 10 on ESPN Board as well. I have not seen Stanford play so I don't know about his athleticism. Can he run the floor well?

I have to say, as much as they talk up Rose as the best PG due to his size and ability, I really like Augustin. I know he's smallish, but so are some other good Point Guards. But he can light it up from the arc and he penetrates and dishes beautifully. I think if we can get two Lottery picks, I'd try to get a Big with the first pick, and Augustin with the second.

[Slam]

This is kind of funny. We couldn't be more oppostie!!

I don't see Love as a bust (unless he is drafted too high - like Ammo. If Ammo was drafted mid 1st, he'd be a great selection, but as he was drafted so high, it was a horrible pick. Same will be said of Love). Love is slow. Very, very slow. He's chunky and carrying about 20-30lbs too many. He lags up and down the court and get very gassed, very quickly. He can cover his lack of lateral movement and quicks in the NCAA because he is SO smart and makes good postition. But he won't be able to hide his flaws in the NBA. With ilegal D being what it is and quicker, stronger PF's in the NBA Love will be found out.

It's a pity. Like I said, I like Love and the NBA needs more guys like Ammo and Love to do well. They are smart, old school type players - but with the NBA full of athletes guys like Ammo and Love will always find it hard.

Love will have a carrer, but he'll be best as a spot playing bench big. Like a Jeff Foster. Tyler is much quicker, a little stronger, fearless and rugged. He'll be more like David Lee and have a bigger impact IMO.

On Jordan:

"All things considered, we’re talking about possibly the biggest high-risk, high reward prospect in this draft. Jordan is the type of player who is capable of getting a GM fired for taking him too early, but he’s also capable of getting a GM fired for deciding to pass on him. What it will probably boil down to at the end of the day is the work ethic and drive Jordan possesses to get better over the next few years. The early returns we’re hearing in this area from scouts who have been out to watch him practice and play have not been the most encouraging regarding his maturity-level, mentality and all-around intangibles, though. The lack of improvement he’s shown throughout his freshman season has been slightly concerning too, but to his credit, he’s a player who needs to have a great point guard next to him to create shots for him, and A&M doesn’t have anything close to that on their roster right now. According to numerous sources, Jordan is not getting along that well with his coaching staff, and will almost certainly be entering the draft once the season is over."

Agree with you on Rose Vs Augstin. I like Rose's potential but I LOVE Augstin's poise and decision making. Augustin will make those around him better from day #1 - but Rose has the potential to be a grand slam in a couple of years. No doubt Augustin has the better natual PG insticts while Rose is more of a work in progress. I'd be ok with moving down in the draft and taking DJ and someone like Authur, Thabeet, Hardin, Anderson.

If DJ was 3 inches taller we'd be talking about him pushing Beasley as the #1 pick.

Lopez is ok. Very methodical though. I tihnk that he'll get called for a LOT of charges in the NBA because once he's decided to make a move in the post, he'll try and make it no matter the situation. He seems to find it hard to change his move mid motion or read the D quick or well enough to get himself out of trouble after he's started to execute.

I like Blake Griffin a lot more than Lopez.

[ohara831]

Good points! The Love vs. Hansbrough debate will be interesting to see how it plays out at the next level.

I see what you are saying about Jordan. But they said the same about Howard. Sometimes with a big stud, you have to take that leap of faith. But it can be scary. You hit it on the head when you called it the biggest risk-reward in the draft.

I agree Blake Griffin may be a solid pick for a PF. Hopefully he fills the void of the injured May. Getting Griffin whould ease the pressure of May being unable to return from the knee injury.

The new nbadraft.net has us taking Eric Gordon with the 6th pick and Joey Dorsey of Memphis with our 2nd. Dorsey has the potential to be a real sleeper. He's been up and down with Memphis this season, but he's a banger and a warrior. I realize Gordon is a SG, so I dont know exactly what we would do with him unless we were trading J-Rich. The SG and SF positions seem to be our two most set in concrete positions. both avg over 20 per game. I think it would be wasteful to have talent like Eric Gordon on the bench. It would surprise me if we took him and played both he and J-Rich about 20 minutes a game. Cant believe they would pay J-Rich his type money to have him be a 6th man, but that is a possibility I guess.

[ohara831]

Great game on tonight at 9:00 on ESPN. Texas and Kansas State. Get to see two of the players who will go Lottery this draft. If you have not seen Beasley for Kansas State, watch him. He is truly at great player and will be special at the NBA level as well. If the ping pong balls fell right for us, boy would I love him in Charlotte. Texas has DJ Augustin as their PG. A smaller PG under 6-0, but one heck of a playmaker. He can dish it out, set people up, and score from behind the arc. If we have a pick in the range of 10-14, I would not be surprised it we take him.

[ohara831]

Well CRAP!! I just read on ESPN and posted a comment on the main Thread. Theyf are saying Crash is still experiencing post concussion syndrome with grogginess and nausea. he has a neuro apt in the next few days and there is no indication when he will be cleared.

I think the team has to watch this very very closely. I was not planning on even consideering a SG or SF in the draft since we have J-Rich and Crash and they avg more than 20 pts /game each. But, we have to watch Crash closely. If he does not get substantially better in the next few weeks, and is not cleared to play by the end of the yr, we may have to consider being open to selecting a SF in the Draft if that is the best person on the Board when we pick. That just messes everything up. I was thinking we only had to look at potentially a PG, PF or C. Throwing in another major position just muddies the water more. CRAP!!

[Keetch]

I'm not gonna worry about Crash yet.

If we drop out of the top tier, then I think Blake Griffin is probably the best PF out there; better than Lopez I think.

I'm gonna have to watch Augustin. I thought he kind of sucked last year alongside Durant. But he was a Freshman PG and I really haven't seen him yet this year.

Is Jordan REALLY as athletic (for his age) as Dwight Howard was? I haven't seen him much at all, but he didn't look Dwight Howardish to me as a first impression.

I see bust.

I dunno, taking Best Player Available usually works, heh so long as you do in fact take the Best NBA Player Available and not the Next Great Bust.

[amour217]

If he's available in the 2nd round, I like Joey Dorsey from Memphis as a backup big. He's built like a skyscraper and rebounds like a beast. He has virtually no offensive game, but off the bench it's no biggie. I've read he goes hard after every rebound and loose ball, so imagine the 'Cats unleashing a good starting 5 on some teams, then subbing in Dudley AND Dorsey....WOO, they'll wear some teams out.

[Dead_Real]

If he's available in the 2nd round, I like Joey Dorsey from Memphis as a backup big. He's built like a skyscraper and rebounds like a beast. He has virtually no offensive game, but off the bench it's no biggie. I've read he goes hard after every rebound and loose ball, so imagine the 'Cats unleashing a good starting 5 on some teams, then subbing in Dudley AND Dorsey....WOO, they'll wear some teams out.

Yea I'm really high on Dorsey as well plays with so much passion which is something we could use a little bit more of on our squad.

[dnbman]

some mocks have Mayo falling out of the top 10 mainly because GM's might be scared away because of his off the court issues. Still though with his upside I see a team in the lottery taking a chance on him since his style of play is perfect for the league.


I think you're right that someone will take a chance on him. However, I think a lot of GMs think he's a me-first volume scorer who turns the ball over a lot. At one point, he was averaging more TOs than assists, which is completely unacceptable. My guess is that he becomes a Darius Miles type: a guy who should have been amazing, showing flashes often that he can be great. However, I'll bet his ego and the hype get to him.

Who knows? Maybe he's the next Kobe?

[Dead_Real]

Yea it could go either way it's all up to Mayo.

[Slam]

Mayo has never been the problem off the court. It's alwasy been the people he has surounded himself with.

[ohara831]

For the last few days, one of the guys getting talked up a lot is the FR from LSU - Anthony Randolph. 6-11 220 lbs PF. Getting a lot of love and they say he will crack the Top 10 as he is only getting better. I'd be interested to follow this guys progression over the next few weeks and see if ESPN and nbadraft.net keep moving him up. If he could add about 20 lbs that would be helpful

Have not seen him but a couple times, but if we make a move to get a 2nd first rounder somewhere in the range of pick 15-22, we might target the kid out of NC State - JJ Hickson. That would be if we did not draft a PF with our early Lottery pick.

[Muttley]

For the last few days, one of the guys getting talked up a lot is the FR from LSU - Anthony Randolph. 6-11 220 lbs PF. Getting a lot of love and they say he will crack the Top 10 as he is only getting better. I'd be interested to follow this guys progression over the next few weeks and see if ESPN and nbadraft.net keep moving him up. If he could add about 20 lbs that would be helpful

Have not seen him but a couple times, but if we make a move to get a 2nd first rounder somewhere in the range of pick 15-22, we might target the kid out of NC State - JJ Hickson. That would be if we did not draft a PF with our early Lottery pick.


Re: Randolph - 6-11 sounds great. 220 sounds a little light to me, too. Does he look like a guy that can put on 20 more pounds, or does he look like the two tall guys we've already got who are string beans?

Re: Hickson - Personally, I hope he stays in school. I don't really think he's quite ready yet, and I'd love to see him at state a few more years. However, there've been plenty of high schoolers/freshmen/upperclassmen in the past haven't been 100% for the NBA on Draft Day either, but they figured it out. That being said, if he goes to the NBA this year I'd love to have him with the Cats. He certainly has a lot of potential and he's a different player from both Hollins and Davidson. He's a hard worker who can pull down the rebounds. His potential is very, very high.

[MattD]

at our pace we could be shooting for the #1 with memphis. Oh Beasley ohhhh. Maybe trade to pick up another top 10 pick... is it possible?

[Slam]

I've been reading a lot about Anthony Randolph lately too ohara831 and I have to say that what I read really spiked my interest.

But then I got to thinking and he sounds 100% like Davidson and I don't see the reason to bring someone on who's 100% like Davidson when I would just rather give the mins to Davidson and see what we have there.

Know what I mean?

[ohara831]

I've been reading a lot about Anthony Randolph lately too ohara831 and I have to say that what I read really spiked my interest.

But then I got to thinking and he sounds 100% like Davidson and I don't see the reason to bring someone on who's 100% like Davidson when I would just rather give the mins to Davidson and see what we have there.

Know what I mean?
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Yes I do. My only thinking on it is that if Jermareo was a mid 2nd round pick, and Randolph is being spoken of as late Lottery, then there must be a pretty big gap in talent. Why not take Randolph, and let Jermareo be his back up and get a solid 15 minutes per game. I really dont think May will be back, so we will be light at the #4 spot.