Another Jordan Draft Day mistake

[boobcats]

While we're on the subject of Jordan destroying the team, the draft day mistake Jordan has not gotten enough heat for was targeting Richardson instead of Monta Ellis.

We were in dire need of a PG and while Ellis isn't a pure PG he would have fit nicely in the backcourt to make up for Felton's deficiencies.

Check out Ellis numbers he is averaging 20 ppg on almost 100% FG shooting in 2008.

[Muttley]

How could ANYONE have expected that? 100% in 2008? MJ clearly rolled the die of Warriors guards and landed a 5 instead of a 6! That bastard!

[boobcats]

Quite simply, he blew it.

Monta is worth star money. A sweet shooting combo guard at age 22.

J-Rich is an injury prone, streaky shooting wing with no ball handling. Golden State had been trying to trade him for years with no takers.


Ellis is exactly what we needed to get this team headed towards winning. Wings of Richardson's caliber are much easier found.

Not to mention Ellis would have allowed us to go after a big name free agent as well while Richardson put a huge dent in our cap.

[Muttley]

No doubt, Monta is the man. You've got no argument from me there. I've been high on him for a while now. I'm just saying that these things are really tough to project. Monta would have been cheaper (for now), but JRich isn't exactly chopped liver here.
For that matter, he's played at minimum 23 minutes in each of the Bobcats' 53 games this year, and only 5 of those games has he played less than 30 minutes. He was listed as day-to-day as of Tuesday, but came out tonight and scored 19 with 8 rebounds and 3 assists.

The grass will ALWAYS be greener.

[boobcats]

Correct, as long as Jordan keeps targeting the wrong guys the grass will always be greener.

[TheBeagle]

I'd be surprised if Monta was ever an option anyway; at his contract, he's the best bargain that team has, so why would they give that up? Like I said, he was likely never an option.

Overall, it was a great trade. A proven scorer/shooter, who has played even better than I expected, plus a second player that shows lots of potential for the future in Jermareo (actual potential, that is, not Ryan Hollins potential :P ). That's what we needed, and Jordan delivered. Not to mention his intelligent drafting of Jared that raised a lot of eyebrows at the time(though, not mine as vets of bobcatsplanet-dom know well!!).

The 2007 draft is one draft that shouldn't be criticized.

[spectre]

Monta WASN'T an option. The only reason GSW traded Richardson was for the cap relief to pay Monta and Biedrens.

Before you try to invent ways that Jordan has "destroyed this team" maybe you should do a little background work first?

[tamburello]

Monta WASN'T an option. The only reason GSW traded Richardson was for the cap relief to pay Monta and Biedrens.

Before you try to invent ways that Jordan has "destroyed this team" maybe you should do a little background work first?


+1

Monta Ellis was seen by Warriors as the future of the club, that made it easier to trade Richardson for them. Also as spectre said, this summer they'll try to extend both Ellis and Biedrins, since they're both restricted FA's.

[ohara831]

Monta WASN'T an option. The only reason GSW traded Richardson was for the cap relief to pay Monta and Biedrens.

Before you try to invent ways that Jordan has "destroyed this team" maybe you should do a little background work first?

__________________________________________________ __

Absolutely correct, Spectre. Ellis was not available in the trade as an option. It was only J-Rich b/c of the $.

[Mustachio]

Michael Jordan should have brought in Kobe, Lebron, and Amare and cloned himself and larry bird.

i love it. Hindsight is 20/20. Im sure you were up there pulling for a Monta Ellis trade last year. toolbag.

[walkerl]

Somebody ban this clown boobcat!!

[MattD]

Michael Jordan should have brought in Kobe, Lebron, and Amare and cloned himself and larry bird.

i love it. Hindsight is 20/20. Im sure you were up there pulling for a Monta Ellis trade last year. toolbag.


seriously. Boob you act like you could do such a better job. Obviously Monta is great, but there is no way GS would have traded him. Hes only making 700 grand this year. They moved Jrich for salary cap reasons, it had nothing to do with Brandon Wright.

No disrespect, but how old are you? You dont seem to understand the concept that its easier to look back and say oh you should have done... then it is to make that decision during the present.

Jordan has been putting together a strong surrounding cast, now we need a superstar. With that we would be a great team, maybe a little more solid bench.

[spectre]

All that being said, I frigging love Monta Ellis. They took a "chance" on him in the 2nd round...I think there were injury concerns...and he's become flat out awesome. I've liked him since his rookie year; during our first game against them I think he shot lights out and looked mighty good doing it.

Right before the Ammo pick I suggested a Felton/3rd pick for Monta/filler to some GSW fans just to gauge their reaction...I had no takers.

[MattD]

I've known about him since his highschool days. My dad was working in Mississippi at the time and he was labeled the greatest show on hardwood. I saw slot of potential and combing out of highschool he threw himself a little draft party, only to find he wasnt drafted in the 1st. Most people left the party and he became much more humble. I knew I'd would be a beast Andre settled down and started saving his cash. Hes done all the right things, pit his family in a much better situation and now can live it up. He's a great talent and I'm happy to say another one who Ive been able to watch fit into the leauge nicely.

[BIGCatBobcat]

Is there any coincidence this comes on the heels of possibly one of his best and biggest game ever? I knew his name in the playoffs but last night he played really really well. I think the J-Rich trade was a good one, very happy with him and the JD's. You wanted Monta and their 2nd for the 7th pick? I'd have been pretty pissed at that point last year. Sure he's a nice player but he's probably a product of that system.

[boobcats]

If Monta wasn't available how come he was the name being floated around on EVERY website. I had a contact working for the Bobcats last summer throughout the draft preparation. Everyone was saying Monta's name was involved in the trade talks.

Check the threads and you'll see I was clamoring for Monta the whole time. Don't give me this hindsight bullshit, I have foresight. A quality many of you lack.

You are the same clowns who thought we'd put together a contender because we re-signed Matt Carroll.

If you remember correctly Monta had an atrocious playoffs and the Warriors knew they'd never be able to trade J-Rich to anyone and wouldn't be able to afford Monta when his contract expires. He's a 2nd round pick so they are going to have to pay him huge money a la Carlos Boozer. 2nd round picks that develop often end up costing you more than 1st round picks because of how early their contracts expire and the lack of restricted rights on a qualifying offer.



Here is the thread you re-treads when i was still under the name rallydurham (lost use of the email addy that contained the password, had to switch names recently).

http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,70/topic,4569.0

[boobcats]

I've got plenty of credibility. I was one of the few calling a spade a spade from the get-go. Look back at the threads from this summer when everyone was proclaiming us Eastern conference contenders.

This post is from JULY for gods sake I saw it coming a mile away

"If we'd let Carroll walk we'd still have wiggle room next season and could have added an elite free agent if we wanted to. Now we're in the same boat as everyone else and we'll have to panic and sign someone on the level of Nazr Mohammed or Rasho Nesterovic next year because we'll only have a MLE available."


"You guys are dead wrong about this being a good signing. You think we've become Eastern Conference Contenders but we haven't. Felton isn't there yet. We have no offensive option on the low block. Using cap space for one dimensional shooters is a terrible way to build a team, period."

"Jordan dropped the ball on this one. Typical NBA GM mistake. Everyone wants to save their own ass instead of doing the right thing. Bernie Bickerstaff wouldn't have made this mistake. Jordan is erasing three years of hard work to stay flexible because he's too impatient.

How many more games are we going to win because of Matt Carroll? 1-2? Maybe 3?"

"I'll still root for the Bobcats but its apparent the next 3-4 seasons are just about being competitive and not about trying to become champions. If we were going to go this route they shouldn't have wasted three seasons not fielding a competitive team and just threw our cap space at random veterans.

Can you imagine if three years ago the Bobcats had said "The reason we are passing up on Jerry Stackhouse in the expansion draft is because three years down the road we're going to land Matt Carroll for $27 million dollars. Just be patient watching Keith Bogans until we get there. Laughable"



Here we go again. These are quotes from the summer, homeboy. Check the threads we were 50 game winners by all accounts back then.


"
This injury puts us well below 50/50 odds of making the playoffs.

Really our only shot is that Okafor, Wallace, Richardson stay remarkably healthy (a longshot) and that Felton improves immensely.

Otherwise we've maxed out our cap space just to compete with the Milwaukee Bucks and New York Knicks for the late lottery positions.

[MattD]

this post is slit more interesting. Here I'm with you, making the playoffs in the east is still a joke. I dont think and haven't thought that emeka and ray are going to become chapionship caliber players (funny right because they both won in college). Frankly the matt carroll contract was not a mistake the way the coach plays matt the wrong way, he could be better. The whole team could be better with a different coach and system. KG rumors where there last year. Talk is talk. There are things that I would do differently as a gm and you would do. There's no point in whining about what's been done. Use your forsight to talk about what your next move would be. That would be more productive/ interesting then complaining about how bad Jordan is. By the way I never said the cats would win 50, I thought they would make the playoffs in the awful east.

[ohara831]

Yes, boobcats. Use your foresight to tell us what we should do and what we will do. I'd like to see if I agree with you on both.

[davcbow]

Crying over spilled milk, what? :g:
Lets talk about where we are now and what we need to do to get better, we cant change a thing that has happened. Living in the past will give you an ulcer. The future is where we are headed, lets talk about that.... :g:

[Muttley]

Yes, boobcats. Use your foresight to tell us what we should do and what we will do. I'd like to see if I agree with you on both.


That would be an entertaining head-to-head matchup! (And, perhaps a useful application of this forum that's more enjoyable to read than laments past mistakes - or past improbabilities and impossibilities.)

In this corner, we have OHara. While not always agreed with by everyone, his strong opinions are ever the interesting read.

And in the other corner, we have the cleverly named Boobcats, who's insightful use of sources and acerbic use of the english language is always sure to spark cnoversation.

Now, Posters, begin PROGNOSTICATING!

[ohara831]

Come on boobcats, we cannot keep Muttley and everyone waiting. Tell me what the future holds for our Bobcats, what moves we will make, or should make but will foresake. I may agree with you, I may not. I am not necessarily looking to argue, but rather to discuss.

My fear is that the Cats will stay put and do nothing for the rest of the Season. They will let go the expiring Contracts and pay our two Draft picks. We still have a roster spot open I believe, but I do not think it will be filled.

I would love to see them move some pieces to get us out of some unwise Contracts, and I really value Draft picks over just semi-OK players. I do not know what in the heck happened to Matt Carroll's jumper, but it left town when his Contract was signed. I would package him with either Okafor or Felton IF we make any moves. That would free up some money as I have a good feeling about Morrison coming back next yr. I was just reviewing what we saw of him prior to the knee injury, and his FG % was up and his Defense was looking better. He will never prove toa be worth the #3 pick, but he can provide good scoring off the bench which we will need. I think Dudley and Jermareo will prove to be two quality players off the bench. May is done for, in my opinion. I think the J-Rich and Nazr Contracts are well worth the money. J-Rich is avg 20 pts and Nazr is a pretty good bet to give us a double double when he plays 25 minutes. And $6 mil is not bad for a big who can give you a fairly consistent double double when given the playing time. I want to rebuild my starting 5 around J-Rich and Crash.

If the team makes some daring, bold but wise moves, we can still be a Playoff team. If we sit firm, we will likely be looking at a Lottery pick b/t #4 - #8.

[Muttley]

Bonnell did mention the other day that Atlanta has shown interest in Carrol. If we were to move him to the ATL, what would you think would be the best value we could get for him?

[dvdbumpus]

Bonnell did mention the other day that Atlanta has shown interest in Carrol. If we were to move him to the ATL, what would you think would be the best value we could get for him?


My guess would be Josh Childress or Shelden Williams. Pop in picks, cash etc either way.

[spectre]

Bonnell did mention the other day that Atlanta has shown interest in Carrol. If we were to move him to the ATL, what would you think would be the best value we could get for him?


I've been beating that around on some other boards.

Best idea I like is to trade him AND Ammo for the expirings of Lue/West/Chil (we lose approx. 8 million in salary) then this summer renounce them, Harrington (2.3 million) and our vet min contracts (1.5 million). Add that with what we'll be under the cap (approx. 1 million now, 3 million +/- next year) and we'd be in the neighborhood of 14 million with which to make a legit run for Jamison.

That would keep our core intact while adding another and we'd still have the MLE (approx 5.5 million) and the bi annual exception (just under 2 million) as well as vet min contracts to fill out the roster.

[ohara831]

Bonnell did mention the other day that Atlanta has shown interest in Carrol. If we were to move him to the ATL, what would you think would be the best value we could get for him?


I've been beating that around on some other boards.

Best idea I like is to trade him AND Ammo for the expirings of Lue/West/Chil (we lose approx. 8 million in salary) then this summer renounce them, Harrington (2.3 million) and our vet min contracts (1.5 million). Add that with what we'll be under the cap (approx. 1 million now, 3 million +/- next year) and we'd be in the neighborhood of 14 million with which to make a legit run for Jamison.

That would keep our core intact while adding another and we'd still have the MLE (approx 5.5 million) and the bi annual exception (just under 2 million) as well as vet min contracts to fill out the roster.
__________________________________________________ _

I like Josh Childress and think he would be an excellent player for us off the bench. Same with Lue. Giving Carroll and Ammo and saving us much money in the process makes good sense. **My only major concern is I think it can be terrible trouble to trade pieces with a Division foe. That can come back to bite us in the butt. I'd much rather trade them to the Western Conf,

[spectre]

Normally I'm with you on that Ohara...but if the net outcome is Jamison playing with us I think I'd take the risk. I also agree about Chil, but again if I had to make a choice I'd take the guy putting up near all star numbers. Least we could do is offer Chil the full MLE...but I'd guess he'll get that offer from more than us.

[ohara831]

What do you think about Brad Miller from Sac. He avg 14.4 pts and 9.7 reb as a true Center. If we could pair him with Okafor, we could make some noise on the front line. I used the ESPN Trade Machine and we could get him for Matt Carroll, Ray, Othello and Hollins. I realize that leaves us short at PG and we'd have to stick with Boykins the rest of the yr. But, that means all we have to worry about with our Lottery Pick would be a PG and b/t Rose, Bayless, Augustine and Lawson, one of them will be there for us. **I realize this may not get us over the hump This year, but it does set us up nicely for next season.

[davcbow]

I see your point for sure, I mean why not? this season is spent just about so I think Boykins could handle it..... :g:

[ziggy]

Somebody ban this clown boobcat!!

Boobcat, Please stop the blatant trolling! It won't be tolerated.

-ziggy

[Alex]

this thread is borderline reckless.