A Few Trade Thoughts...

[ammofan]

I was just thinking today at school about the Bobcats and since the trade deadline is coming soon I thought of a few trades that we could do:

First one involves Okafor. Although he has been playing really well as of late, he has not been the defensive leader and threat we need him to be.

Bobcats Get: Mike Bibby, Spencer Hawes
Kings Get: Emeka Okafor, Two 2nd round Picks, Othella Harrington

OR

Bobcats Get: Tyrus Thomas, Chris Duhon, Thabo Sefolosha
Bulls Get: Emeka Okafor, Jeff McMinus, Othella Harrington


The next trade is for Felton. I am a big UNC fan and all but I do not think much of Ray on the Basketball court. I think it is time for him to move on....

Bobcats Get: Josh Boone, Marcus Williams, 2nd rd. pick
Nets Get: Raymond Felton, Jeff McMinus

Then if we made this trade we could sign Jerry stackhouse because according to this:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3247183
Stackhouse will be released by the Nets if he is traded to him and he cant come back to Dallas.

[ohara831]

I like your Chicago trade, but would rather have Ben Gordon than Duhon. Just my preference.

[bizzlecatz]

Can we please stop undervaluing Mek.

Who is going to be a presence in the paint in either of those groups.

Ammofan, I don't mean any harm, but please stay focused in school :)

[Alex]

None of those teams would even look twice at those "deals." We're basically ripping them off big time.

[ammofan]

Can we please stop undervaluing Mek.

Who is going to be a presence in the paint in either of those groups.

Ammofan, I don't mean any harm, but please stay focused in school :)


Believe me.....WE DO NOTHING at my school! LOL! I am serious.....no homework, substitutes all the time......the most work I do is eat lunch!

[bizzlecatz]

Can we please stop undervaluing Mek.

Who is going to be a presence in the paint in either of those groups.

Ammofan, I don't mean any harm, but please stay focused in school :)


Believe me.....WE DO NOTHING at my school! LOL! I am serious.....no homework, substitutes all the time......the most work I do is eat lunch!



WOW! that puts a new perspective on: Food For Thought ???

Ammofan your a cool kid :)

btw, Ammo need to clean it up a bit, on the sidelines, he looks like he sell trailers door to door :)

[bobcat4life]

what about this 4 team trade that helps out the mavs, nets, and griz but mostly us.

charlotte gets-----------josh boone, bostjan nochbar, and kyle lowery (nj,nj,m)

jersey gets----------devin harris, jason terry, and mike miller ( da,da, m)

dallas gets-----------jason kidd, malik allen and ryan hollins (nj,nj, char)

memphis gets----------diop,agier, harrington and mcinnis(da, da, cha, cha)

[davcbow]

Boy did Memphis get crapped on...... :g:

[bobcat4life]

I sent it thru the trade machine and it work. Memphis could just let mcinnis go and they are trying to drop salaries after the season so that gives them flexibility with harington and diop coming of the boards this year. :afro:

[bobcat4life]

what about this one

charlotte gets---------josh boone, nacbar, and marcus williams

nets get-----------j oneal and ryan hollis

pacers get----------carter, harrington, and mcinnis.

it passes thru the trade machine with ease. Nothing else to do this time of night but dream. :afro:

[spectre]

Kupchak Unsure About Re-Signing Odom (http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/51734/20080402/kupchak_unsure_about_re_signing_odom/)

Odom looks like he might be available and he's making a little less than 14 million left on a 1 yr deal...would we be interested? He either works out and we re-sign him (we'd have Bird Rights) or else we get a huge expiring.

Random thought: say we trade Crash + Ammo (or Hammer) for Odom + Farmar...draft Mayo.

Felts/Farmar
Mayo/Hammer
Swish/Duds
Odom/McMay/Davidson
Mek/Nazr/Hollins

Bad?

[MattD]

trade junkies correct me if im wrong, but unless he is a restricted free agent, then you cannot "trade" bird rights. Plus he would technically not have a salary wheres crash and hammer would be upwards of 13mill. Plus I love the Gerald is playing, so no!

[ammofan]

Can we please stop undervaluing Mek.

Who is going to be a presence in the paint in either of those groups.

Ammofan, I don't mean any harm, but please stay focused in school :)


Believe me.....WE DO NOTHING at my school! LOL! I am serious.....no homework, substitutes all the time......the most work I do is eat lunch!



WOW! that puts a new perspective on: Food For Thought ???

Ammofan your a cool kid :)

btw, Ammo need to clean it up a bit, on the sidelines, he looks like he sell trailers door to door :)


Thanks.....:)

[spectre]

trade junkies correct me if im wrong, but unless he is a restricted free agent, then you cannot "trade" bird rights.

NBA Salary Cap FAQ (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#25)

25. How long must a player be with one team before the Larry Bird exception can be used?


Theoretically, a player with Bird rights can be traded at the trade deadline right before becoming a free agent and his new team can use the Bird exception to re-sign him. There is no specific tenure requirement with one team. The only rule is that the player can't have been waived or changed teams as a free agent for three seasons. However, if a team renounces a player (see question number 33), they can't use the Bird exception to re-sign him for one year.


Plus he would technically not have a salary wheres crash and hammer would be upwards of 13mill.

You kind of lost me here...Odom is locked in for one more season after this one ends, so we'd be trading the same amount of salary. After the the 08/09 season Odom would be a free agent.

[Slam]

Don't mind the Odom idea. He would provide is with a versitle player who knows how to move the ball

My only concern would be is that he might turn out to be a one year rental. I know that would open up cap space for us, but if he walked after that one year, then we are back to looking for a PF.


How about someone that falls around:

Charlotte Out:
Crash

Charlotte In:
Iggy

Philly out:
Iggy

Philly In:
Bargs
Toronto's 08 1st round pick

Toronto Out:
Bargs
2008 1st round pick

Why for Charlotte:
We get a SG with handles and a good ball IQ would would help with ball movement and spread the floor. Then we use our 2008 1st on a PF (ideally someone like Griffin - if he is in the draft)

Why for Philly:
They need a scoring PF to play next to Dalembert. Bargs is forced to play out of position in TO - which doesn't work well for his game. Plus with the TO 1st round pick they can add PG depth

Why for TO:
They get the SF they long for to round out their starting 5 and put them over the top.

Thoughts?

[dvdbumpus]

I like the trade. Make it happen!

Think they'd consider J-rich also, due to his salary?

[MattD]

You kind of lost me here...Odom is locked in for one more season after this one ends, so we'd be trading the same amount of salary. After the the 08/09 season Odom would be a free agent.


ah. My fault, I though his contract was expiring this summer.

[ohara831]

Iggy plays the SF like Crash. You are calling him a SG. Would you play him at SG and move J-Rich to the SF position? Essentially, from the Charlotte perspective, you are just trading Crash for Iggy. That is a pretty even swap from the player's ability point of view, and we would not have to worry about the Health issue of Crash. But, since Crash is signed to a long and very favorable Contract, would that not entitle us to a little more than just an even swap? What is Iggy's status Contract-wise?

[Slam]

Iggy plays the SF like Crash. You are calling him a SG. Would you play him at SG and move J-Rich to the SF position? Essentially, from the Charlotte perspective, you are just trading Crash for Iggy. That is a pretty even swap from the player's ability point of view, and we would not have to worry about the Health issue of Crash. But, since Crash is signed to a long and very favorable Contract, would that not entitle us to a little more than just an even swap? What is Iggy's status Contract-wise?


-----------------------

Yes, I would move Swish to the 3 (his more natural position IMO) and play Iggy at the 2. Iggy has the handles and BBIQ to really help in the back court and take some of the pressure off Felts. Like Swish, he can create his own shot.

Ideally I would just trade Crash for Iggy, but that makes no sense for the Sixers - not with Thad Young coming on. What they need is an offensive big, which is what Bargs would give them.

Because of Crash's concussion concerns I don't think we are entitled to anything more.

Iggy's contract situation is the same as EO50's. He passed up money last summer and is a RFA this summer. The deal would probably have to be a S&T

[ohara831]

I just looked that up and saw Iggy would have to be a S & T. Iggy and J-Rich would be every bit as exciting as J-Rich and Crash. I was thinking of the other night when Crash took a shot and had to sit out for a few minutes, and then returned. I think you are right from the perspective of our not getting any additional benefits for Crash's favorable Contract. If a team has to worry about pulling him out every so often after a collision, that could be problematic. God, I'd hate to part with Crash, but getting Iggy in return would be a very good return and I dont think that Cat fans could complain.

From the S&T perspective, how much did Iggy turn down last yr? Will it work with our trading Crash and his salary? Will he be in the same range as Crash's $9.5 mil or is he looking for more? Toronto kicking in Bargs is fine for me, but I'd hate for us to give up more than Crash alone.

[Dead_Real]

Ohara Andre Iguodala turned down $57 million contract extension from them.

[spectre]

I think every trade I've proposed in the last two years (maybe 3) Slam always counters with an Iggy trade! :biggrin:

I'd love to have him, but I'd be flat out amazed if PHI doesn't lock him up even for the max. He's probably not quite worth that contract, but to them he probably is. He'd be an upgrade to Crash because of his handles and his BBIQ.

How do we cover the PF position in that scenario? Draft? Money would be an issue too, but maybe not too much...a big deal would still start in the 12-13 range wouldn't it?

Ohara...what do you think of the Odom deal?

[ohara831]

Spectre: I like that proposal. I think we might even get the Lakers to give us their late 1st as well. I'd try to grab a big that slid late like JaVon Hardin or someone such as he. I'd like that alot.

I have a concern with Mayo lasting to our pick at either 7th or 8th. He is moving back up and he may now be the 4th or 5th player selected. Gordon from Indiana will likely be there if you'd take him, or Jarryd Bayless, but he might be staying in school. But Mayo is starting to move up and out of our range, unless we get lucky ping pong balls.

[ohara831]

Ohara Andre Iguodala turned down $57 million contract extension from them.
_________________________________________________ But how many years was it? It may still work out to around $9-10 mil/yr.

[chabber]

Slam suggesting another Iggy trade? Who'd have thunk it. :biggrin:

Ignoring the fact that Odom is an expiring for the moment I'd do that trade.

I'm concerned with Wallace's concussions obviously but I'm also thinking about how he's going to hold up in the years to come. Most of what makes him so great is his athleticism and once that starts fading due to injuries or age I'm not sure how valuable he's going to be.

The good thing for us about Odom is that his strengths are part of our teams biggest weaknesses. He's someone who's is smart with the basketball, he can create for himself and others and he rebounds fairly well. We'd have a slight drop off in defense I would think but then again maybe Odom could cover some of those PF's out from the basket that Mek has such a hard time with.

Plus in your trade suggestion we'd be getting Farmar who could handle being a backup PG for now and maybe even steal a little bit of Felts time. However I'm not sure they'd part with him in this deal as they'd be down to an aging Fisher and Vujacic since the got rid of Crit earlier in the year. They would probably try to move Turiaf instead, and I'd go for that too.

[Dead_Real]

Ohara Andre Iguodala turned down $57 million contract extension from them.
_________________________________________________ But how many years was it? It may still work out to around $9-10 mil/yr.

It was for five years.

[MattD]

let me just go ahead and shout this one out
PHILA WILL NOT WILLINGLY TRADE IGGY

Why the hell would they break up theyre new found success in a post iverson team. They are doing great and iggy is their main building block along with crash.

If PHILA fans saw this I bet the majority of them would laugh in our faces, like we did when we heard Okafor for Bargnani and Parker.

It only helps one team.

[Slam]

Am I that predictable? Might be time to find a new love child! 1st it was Joe Johnson, then Iggy, now Roy!! If Mayo pans out like some think he will, he might be 1st in line!

I see a trend in player type developing here!

I guess we all know what I think this team is missing then!

[Slam]

MattD - let me show you some stuff you might find interesting. If nothing else, maybe it stops you from using capital letters?:

"Sixers' Iguodala has faith he can play for larger fortune
By PHIL JASNER
Philadelphia Daily News

jasnerp@phillynews.com

A veteran scout who requested anonymity said: "To me, he's (iggy) the second- or third-best player on a good team. He doesn't have any glaring weaknesses; he's a good defender, a good passer, a little fancy, a high-turnover guy. He runs the floor and is athletic. If the Sixers had a star, he'd be a great player."

The money?

"I thought he was out of his mind, quite frankly [to turn it down]," the scout said. "First of all, there's no money out here. But I think all of this is based on [the Sacramento Kings'] Kevin Martin, who got about $55 million. Martin, though, was averaging 21 [points a game for a team] in the West, and he found a team that thought that was his worth. I don't see a team paying Iguodala $57 million."

Iguodala ascended to the dual roles of leader and best player after Iverson was traded to the Nuggets in December 2006, helping drive the Sixers to 17 victories in their last 26 games.

"It would help him if he had more guys around him, which he's starting to get," Rivers said. "What they're doing right now is phenomenal; they're playing amazing ball and he's the leader, he and Andre Miller. This is his first shot; last season, in the middle of the year, shouldn't count."

Good player to great player to franchise player. That's the ladder Iguodala is attempting to climb, said Hall of Famer Bill Walton. "I think the role model for him has got to be [Wizards forward] Caron Butler, showing the ability to become one of the top 15 players in the conference, to be able to translate talent into impact, control and wins," Walton said. "Ultimately, the result of that is the imagination of the crowd that is drawn to watch you. Can you sell tickets? Can you be the driver of the engine?

"I was stunned with all the guys that turned down the money. Those are huge amounts. Are you going to be able to get significantly more by waiting longer? I'm not sure that's the case, and even as salaries continue to grow, [you're talking about] another 1 to 2 million [dollars] . . . for what?"

Iguodala has consistently said he is comfortable with his decision and that, if he and the team play well, things will take care of themselves.

"I think two things when guys turn down the money," said Orlando coach Stan Van Gundy. "Most people look and say 'How in the heck could you do that?' I always think they're taking a risk, but at the same time I say they're showing tremendous confidence in themselves and their abilities.

"If a guy is going to be a franchise player, and I think that's what Andre Iguodala wants to be, it starts obviously with talent, but the next thing is, they better have tremendous confidence. I think that's what he's showing."

And then there was this caveat from Minnesota Timberwolves broadcaster Billy McKinney: "Whenever a guy turns down that kind of money, I think back to Christian Laettner, who turned down $63 million from the Atlanta Hawks, then blew out his Achilles tendon. Sometimes, a reality check needs to happen."

That will come, one way or another, this summer. * "



Just because he thinks he's worth $57 over 5, doesn't mean he's getting $57 over 5. Is EO50 going to get his $60?

Add in the development of Young, plus the incentive of an ex #1 over all and an additional current 1st round pick, it could be tempting.

Think of what you would accept for EO50 in a S&T

[spectre]

Spectre: I like that proposal. I think we might even get the Lakers to give us their late 1st as well. I'd try to grab a big that slid late like JaVon Hardin or someone such as he. I'd like that alot.

I have a concern with Mayo lasting to our pick at either 7th or 8th. He is moving back up and he may now be the 4th or 5th player selected. Gordon from Indiana will likely be there if you'd take him, or Jarryd Bayless, but he might be staying in school. But Mayo is starting to move up and out of our range, unless we get lucky ping pong balls.


I know...maybe if we got that 1st we throw that in with our draft pick to move up a couple of spots? Don't know the others like you guys do...but I'm not trading Crash unless Mayo (or Iggy) is coming in.



Slam suggesting another Iggy trade? Who'd have thunk it. :biggrin:

Ignoring the fact that Odom is an expiring for the moment I'd do that trade.

I'm concerned with Wallace's concussions obviously but I'm also thinking about how he's going to hold up in the years to come. Most of what makes him so great is his athleticism and once that starts fading due to injuries or age I'm not sure how valuable he's going to be.

The good thing for us about Odom is that his strengths are part of our teams biggest weaknesses. He's someone who's is smart with the basketball, he can create for himself and others and he rebounds fairly well. We'd have a slight drop off in defense I would think but then again maybe Odom could cover some of those PF's out from the basket that Mek has such a hard time with.

Plus in your trade suggestion we'd be getting Farmar who could handle being a backup PG for now and maybe even steal a little bit of Felts time. However I'm not sure they'd part with him in this deal as they'd be down to an aging Fisher and Vujacic since the got rid of Crit earlier in the year. They would probably try to move Turiaf instead, and I'd go for that too.


Yeah, kind of thought that too on Farmar, but I was trying to get more out of Crash (think he's worth more than Odom...some might disagree), but like you Turiaf wouldn't be bad, esp. if we got their pick like Ohara mentioned. He might be a UFA though.

Imagine if we did have that lineup I suggested...other than Mek Swish would be the worst passer of the bunch. You know Swish, the guy who's made 2 STELLAR behind the back passes in the last two games. Man would the ball movement be swift!


Think of what you would accept for EO50 in a S&T


I think it's almost impossible, but how's about a switch? I personally don't think Mek'd be the best fit for Philly but some of their fans feel he'll fill their PF hole...I didn't bother to try and change their minds. We'd still have Crash to get a big (tho who that'd be I have no idea).

[MattD]

first off, just because iggy turned down an extension doesnt mean they are going to be willing to let him go and to break up their core.

Second, I dont know why the hell we are talking about getting more SF/SG players. Its our most deep position

SG: Jrich, Carroll, DA
SF: Crash, Dud, Ammo

To get odom we would have to put him at PF which could work, but then we say no to Antawn (sad). But we still havent fixed our center problem. To get iggy just seems dumb, but maybe if they would go for crash for iggy or something i would CONSIDER (caps for bigslam) it.

[Slam]

first off, just because iggy turned down an extension doesnt mean they are going to be willing to let him go and to break up their core.

Second, I dont know why the hell we are talking about getting more SF/SG players. Its our most deep position

SG: Jrich, Carroll, DA
SF: Crash, Dud, Ammo

To get odom we would have to put him at PF which could work, but then we say no to Antawn (sad). But we still havent fixed our center problem. To get iggy just seems dumb, but maybe if they would go for crash for iggy or something i would CONSIDER (caps for bigslam) it.
------------------------------------

1. Who says Iggy is a part of their core and even if he is, why does that mean he wouldn't be traded? Gasol was a part of the Memphis core. Swish was a part of the GSW core. Ben Wallace was a part of the Pistons core. If something makes financial and roster balance sense, then changes can happen.

2. Because a player of Iggy's skill set fits what we need more than any other of our wings do. I thought everyone on God's green earth who is a Bobcats acknowledged that?

3. Odom would be a million times better for us than Jamison.

4. We would play EO50 at the 5 - his natural position. What's to fix there?

5. "To get iggy just seems dumb, but maybe if they would go for crash for iggy or something i would CONSIDER (caps for bigslam) it."

This statement makes no sense?

[MattD]

1. Who says Iggy is a part of their core and even if he is, why does that mean he wouldn't be traded? Gasol was a part of the Memphis core. Swish was a part of the GSW core. Ben Wallace was a part of the Pistons core. If something makes financial and roster balance sense, then changes can happen.

2. Because a player of Iggy's skill set fits what we need more than any other of our wings do. I thought everyone on God's green earth who is a Bobcats acknowledged that?

3. Odom would be a million times better for us than Jamison.

4. We would play EO50 at the 5 - his natural position. What's to fix there?

5. "To get iggy just seems dumb, but maybe if they would go for crash for iggy or something i would CONSIDER (caps for bigslam) it."

This statement makes no sense?


1. The difference is that Iggy is in an up and comming core that is finally winning without iverson. Memphis sucked with or without the gasol and who else core. It would make no sense to damage theyre new found success by shaking up the team unless both parties absolutely cannot come to an agreement.
With Ben Wallace, he chose more money and somewhere else, Iggy can do that, but the 76ers wont willingly let him go for a price they would pay for him.

2. I mean, hes explosive, can shoot midrange, decent defender, and can hit a three. Sounds like crash with less hustle and a little more jumpshot. We really dont need him, and I just dont see why 76er's would give him up unless they absolutely cannot agree on terms

3. I dont see how Odom fits better then Jamison. Both are good players, Odom averages 14 and 10.6 ( A more dynamic Mek almost huh?) and is a generally strong defender. 6 foot 10 and 230.

Jamison averages over 20 ppg, is a dynamic scorer off the block and shoots very well and still rebounds over 10.2 per. He is an inch shorter (really not much difference) and weighs 235, so 5 pounds more. He is also a solid defender.

Either of these guys play a different game from Mek, but it seems as though Jamison does so more effectively. Maybe thats because hes Washington's primary scorer right now, but I have seen him play and he is very good. Plus Jamison WANTS to be here.

Logic that out with me, how come Odom is 1,000,000X better. Odom is 29, and Jamison 32. But in signing Jamison, we would be securing him as a player here, Odom could be gone after one year. (Maybe the one year litmus test might not be terrible but I still like Jamison's game more)

4. I will place bets that Emeka trys to get away from Charlotte. Thats the only reason I can see he would turn down the safety of 75 million over 6 years. And if he doesnt want to be here, I dont want him here either. Fine, but we will need more interior strength.

I seemingly have begun to think about the bobcats in a post-mek world. Maybe I am wrong, I would love to see him come back and play with passion and fury for this team, but its got to start with him WANTING to be here.

5. Ok, I confused the two trades and though for a moment we were talking emeka for iggy.

[dnbman]

I didn't read the whole thread; I'm just responding to the Jamison verse Odom debate.


Odom's biggest strength as a PF is his passing. He'd be ideal for us because he is a great scorer and rebounder, but is probably one of the better passing PFs in the NBA. He tends to defer a lot, but can get his when called upon, as seen whenever Kobe's sat out games. I actually think he's been one of the most underrated players in the league ever since he got traded to Miami. (He probably earned his criticism while a Clipper.) Throw in the fact that Odom is three years younger, and I think he'd be a great fit.

[ohara831]

Let me think. UHMMM. Okafor for Iggy? Lineup:
Ray
Iggy
J-Rich
Crash
Draft pick/Nazr

Well, if we sacrificed Crash to the BB Gods and made him our PF till he concussed out of the NBA, it would be an exciting lineup for the time!

[MattD]

Let me think. UHMMM. Okafor for Iggy? Lineup:
Ray
Iggy
J-Rich
Crash
Draft pick/Nazr

Well, if we sacrificed Crash to the BB Gods and made him our PF till he concussed out of the NBA, it would be an exciting lineup for the time!


thats why it wont happen, I dont think wed be too effective.

As far as Odom and Jamison, Jamison is not half bad as a passer, and he can really score. Frankly we need a better second scoring option, Crash is toning it down a little, Ray still has a bad % and tries to do to much (but he is playing tons better) and Mek is mister inconsistent himself. Jamison would be better then Odom on that note.

[dnbman]

Jamison would be better then Odom on that note.


You're definitely justified in making that claim. However, again, I think Odom is very underrated because he defers so much of the time. He can fill it up from all over the court just like Jamison.

Basically, I think Odom would do a better job of bring the team together and making everyone better. Not to mention, he'd be the perfect tutor for Dudley.

I think the couple of extra assists Odom would get could cancel out pretty easily the couple of extra baskets Jamison would get.

[MattD]

Jamison would be better then Odom on that note.


You're definitely justified in making that claim. However, again, I think Odom is very underrated because he defers so much of the time. He can fill it up from all over the court just like Jamison.

Basically, I think Odom would do a better job of bring the team together and making everyone better. Not to mention, he'd be the perfect tutor for Dudley.

I think the couple of extra assists Odom would get could cancel out pretty easily the couple of extra baskets Jamison would get.


This is a good conversation, and I think either would be solid for the team. Maybe Odom would be better, but I still like Jamison more. It'll be interesting to see which route our team goes.

The only thing that I begin to question for Odom is the bobcats style of past. We never had a guy who would always fill it up. Never a 20ppg scorer until now. But the rest of our guys still moderately inconsistent. Odom's extra assists would keep us sort of in that shaky, whos going to be hot tonight whos not mode. But Maybe Odom can fill it up in our situation.

Granted, in the stat book, odom averages only 2 more assists per game at 3.5 but thats not bad for a PF. If you go to NBA.com there is a great way to compare players

Good stuff

[ohara831]

I'd rather opt for Odom than Jamison. Just my preference as I believe for all the reasons others above say, he's a better long term fit.

[MattD]

he is playing pretty nicely right now on espn. I think the difference between the two then appears to be what we are bringing in, a scorer/low post wizard or a do it all with some nice passing and court vision forward. I could see either working, but I still stick with Antawn.

[dvdbumpus]

I think Odom is just too inconsistant at times. I'd rather have him though due to him being younger than Jamison. I think he could be very good for the team.

[dnbman]

I think Odom is just too inconsistant at times. I'd rather have him though due to him being younger than Jamison. I think he could be very good for the team.


I haven't watched him at all this season, to be honest. However, in years past, I know he was inconsistent if he wasn't involved in the flow of the game. He doesn't need to be a center of the offense, but he needs to be active on both ends. When Kobe decides to play one on five, Odom will definitely disappear. However, if Odom is including in the flow, he'll help generate offense for himself and others. Basically, I don't think it would be much of an issue in the Bobcat's offense, which would be much more similar to what Miami was trying to run when it was Wade, Butler, and Odom in the playoffs.

[Slam]

he is playing pretty nicely right now on espn. I think the difference between the two then appears to be what we are bringing in, a scorer/low post wizard or a do it all with some nice passing and court vision forward. I could see either working, but I still stick with Antawn.
---------------------------------

I was getting to respond to you, but you took care of it here!!

Jamison is more a jump shooting, over sized SF. He has next to no post offense.

Odom plays quailty post offense - something we really need.

Jamison shoots 43% from the field for God's sake on 18 attempts per game. 43%!!!

Odom shoots 52% on 10 attempts.

That alone, without mentioning things like Odom's superior passing, age, contract situation and defense (Odom = 1 block a game, Jamison not even 1/2 a block per game) makes him a million times better for us than Jamison.

[ohara831]

he is playing pretty nicely right now on espn. I think the difference between the two then appears to be what we are bringing in, a scorer/low post wizard or a do it all with some nice passing and court vision forward. I could see either working, but I still stick with Antawn.
---------------------------------

I was getting to respond to you, but you took care of it here!!

Jamison is more a jump shooting, over sized SF. He has next to no post offense.

Odom plays quailty post offense - something we really need.

Jamison shoots 43% from the field for God's sake on 18 attempts per game. 43%!!!

Odom shoots 52% on 10 attempts.

That alone, without mentioning things like Odom's superior passing, age, contract situation and defense (Odom = 1 block a game, Jamison not even 1/2 a block per game) makes him a million times better for us than Jamison.
__________________________________________________ _

To me, that reply just sums up perfectly why we would be far better off with Odom than Jamison. That was everything stated in a nice succinct package.

[MattD]

I was getting to respond to you, but you took care of it here!!

Jamison is more a jump shooting, over sized SF. He has next to no post offense.

Odom plays quailty post offense - something we really need.

Jamison shoots 43% from the field for God's sake on 18 attempts per game. 43%!!!

Odom shoots 52% on 10 attempts.

That alone, without mentioning things like Odom's superior passing, age, contract situation and defense (Odom = 1 block a game, Jamison not even 1/2 a block per game) makes him a million times better for us than Jamison.


First off, have you ever seen Jamison on the block. He has a post game, not a power one, but a "Ill do circles around you with my floater and footwork"

Only one year has jamisons shooting % been above .500, and that was when he came off the bench. I believe the reason why his shooting percentage is low is because he is forced to do a lot on the wizards, especially when they dont have Gil and Caron.

But I think you and I both have all the facts Big Slam, so I have realized Lamar wouldnt be a bad fit, but I still like what Jamison brings.

I think it is more realistic that we could pull Jamison too. I dont see why the lakers would trade lamar for okafor, (which I think was what was being said) because then they would have a lot of depth in the pf/center spot. but hey, maybe they do. Either way good ideas

edit: I see it was for crash. who knows what they do

[MattD]

I've got a trade for you all and tell me what you think:


Charlotte sends Felton to New Jersey for Marcus Williams and Sean Williams.

Why New Jersey does this:
Felton is better then either of these players alone. Felton is a terrific penetrator and he can shoot and get hot. He would serve as a better back up then Marcus Williams for Devin Harris as he can distribute better the Williams can, and he cis able to play SG. Good locker room presence. Sean Williams and Marcus Williams both have baggage, and Felton does not.

Why Charlotte does this:
The need for more physical/athletic players in the middle and a stronger scorer off the bench is apparent to me. In the case that we do not resign emeka, Sean Williams can fill a void if there is a stronger scoring PF (say Lamar Odom or Antawn Jamison). Marcus Williams is better 20-25 mpg off the bench PG who can score in bunches, however it might be an interesting test to see how he does at starter. No worse the McInnis, thats for sure

Catalysts for this trade:

Emeka does not resign with the team
Our Draft Pick is high so we can get a strong PG that would compete with M. Williams for the starting spot
We can work to get a new pf through other means


Basically think of a starting lineup:
PG Marcus Williams/Draft Pick
SG Jrich
SF Lamar Odom/Crash (Depending on trade earlier)
PF Antawn Jamison (do not resign Okafor)
C Sean Williams (Backed up by Hollins and Nazr)

Worst case is neither works out, in which they only have one year left on each of their contracts (team options available though), and they are both worth less then 1.5 million each.

[Slam]

I'd be all over this deal and would be VERY interested to see what we could land in a S&T with EO50 to complete the roster.

Maybe Iggy?
;)

Then draft Griffin (#8)

M.Williams - FA vet (BK?)
Iggy - Hammer
Swish - Dude - Ammo
Griffin - Davidson
S.Williams - Nazzy - Twiggy

[ohara831]

Sean Williams is a 6-10 235 lb PF, not a Center. I think he will be a good PF with the first yr behind him now. Just did not get enough play in NJ, and I think that was their error. The man just plays with attitude and a mean streak, and I like it. He's like Dudley with even more attitude and fire.

edit: He is listed as a PF on their Depth chart. But, he may play Center when playing. Do you have any personal knowledge that he can play Center at that size? The height is a little small, but the weight is way light for my liking. That really seems like a PF body to me.

Slam: With Williams as a PF, I would not take Griffin with #8. I'd likely grab a PG like Bayless from AZ or Westbrook from UCLA who can take the start from M. Williams. I know Westbrook is much like Ray (a combo guard), but he can ball. If we did a S&T with Okafor, it would have to be for a Center who can be better than Nazr. If not established, then a serviceable player along with one of the Centers from this Draft with a whole lot of promise. Hardin, Ibaka, etc...

[MattD]

Because of S. Williams athleticism he is easily a center. He plays center in NJ and I see him more effectively as a center.

Amare is 6 10 and was center for a long time, ben wallace (well really he is in his own category) is 6 9.

I wouldnt think twice about putting him on the floor as a center with another large PF, whether it be Griffin, Odom, or maybe (though he could be not physical enough) Jamison.

[MattD]

I'd be all over this deal and would be VERY interested to see what we could land in a S&T with EO50 to complete the roster.

Maybe Iggy?
;)

Then draft Griffin (#8)

M.Williams - FA vet (BK?)
Iggy - Hammer
Swish - Dude - Ammo
Griffin - Davidson
S.Williams - Nazzy - Twiggy


Im down with that, I really liked how Jrich plays at SF with another shooter on the floor, and Iggy would be complementary.

I still am getting my mouth watering for a sign and trade emeka for jamison (or just dont sign emeka, pick up jamison; trade crash and ammo for odom (maybe a stretch); and a nice draft pick for the pg slot DJ Aug coming to mind.

M. Williams/DJ Aug
Jrich/Carroll
Jamison/Dudley
Odom/May or Davidson
S. Williams/Nazr

The starting lineup seems powerful, with Dudley, Carroll and Augustine getting the most minutes off the bench. (Depending of course how May looks, and how Davidson has improved or not improved over the summer)

[dvdbumpus]

I love the ideas but I think we're getting over zealous here. My guess is that there will be about 4 changes

1. New coach
2. Big splash by trading Okafor or Wallace
3. Big man FA signings
4. PG Depth


Of course then the draft. But I think that's all we'll do. 1 big trade and that may be on draft night. other than that, just a few changes into the system.

[ohara831]

Well. if he plays a Center, OK with me. I just thought of him as a PF with his size and his being listed as a PF on Depth Chart.

[ohara831]

I love the ideas but I think we're getting over zealous here. My guess is that there will be about 4 changes

1. New coach
2. Big splash by trading Okafor or Wallace
3. Big man FA signings
4. PG Depth


Of course then the draft. But I think that's all we'll do. 1 big trade and that may be on draft night. other than that, just a few changes into the system.
__________________________________________________

Those 4 changes are a whole bunch of change for this team. If we do the right ones, this could be a turn around yr for our Bobcats. If we do it wrong, it sends us further into the abyss.

[MattD]

I agree with you bumpus, but it doesnt stop me from fantasizing about how we could look.

Sometimes to be aggressive, especially in a dismal franchise like we are right now, is the right thing to do.

Too bad we are the "notoriously thrifty" bobcats

[MattD]

upon further review og numbers, you know what scares me, is odom's wild swings. It was mentioned above, but he seems as inconsistant as Emeka. 31 points one night, only 2 points a few games earlier. Still got the rebs though. Defiantly not the scoring option we may need, but sturdy in some other aspects

[MattD]

I've got a trade for you all and tell me what you think:


Charlotte sends Felton to New Jersey for Marcus Williams and Sean Williams.

Why New Jersey does this:
Felton is better then either of these players alone. Felton is a terrific penetrator and he can shoot and get hot. He would serve as a better back up then Marcus Williams for Devin Harris as he can distribute better the Williams can, and he cis able to play SG. Good locker room presence. Sean Williams and Marcus Williams both have baggage, and Felton does not.

Why Charlotte does this:
The need for more physical/athletic players in the middle and a stronger scorer off the bench is apparent to me. In the case that we do not resign emeka, Sean Williams can fill a void if there is a stronger scoring PF (say Lamar Odom or Antawn Jamison). Marcus Williams is better 20-25 mpg off the bench PG who can score in bunches, however it might be an interesting test to see how he does at starter. No worse the McInnis, thats for sure

Catalysts for this trade:

Emeka does not resign with the team
Our Draft Pick is high so we can get a strong PG that would compete with M. Williams for the starting spot
We can work to get a new pf through other means


Basically think of a starting lineup:
PG Marcus Williams/Draft Pick
SG Jrich
SF Lamar Odom/Crash (Depending on trade earlier)
PF Antawn Jamison (do not resign Okafor)
C Sean Williams (Backed up by Hollins and Nazr)

Worst case is neither works out, in which they only have one year left on each of their contracts (team options available though), and they are both worth less then 1.5 million each.



the more I think about this trade, the more I wish we could try it. Maybe even try to pull a pick out of new jersey too. Worst case scenario is we send a second rounder along with ray for those two. I have been looking at numbers and stuff. In college Marcus Williams was known for his superior court vision, surrounded with some stronger players, (jrich, lamar, and antawn) we could be sick.


More for the rumor mill: I heard LA would be willing to trade odom for a high pick. Id rather keep the pick and try to go after moving okafor or wallace

[ohara831]

I like Odom, but I don't think I'd trade the #8 pick for him straight up. Now, I'd take Odom and Farmar for the #8. Yes, I would do that quickly!

[CMc$]

I've got a trade for you all and tell me what you think:


Charlotte sends Felton to New Jersey for Marcus Williams and Sean Williams.

Why New Jersey does this:
Felton is better then either of these players alone. Felton is a terrific penetrator and he can shoot and get hot. He would serve as a better back up then Marcus Williams for Devin Harris as he can distribute better the Williams can, and he cis able to play SG. Good locker room presence. Sean Williams and Marcus Williams both have baggage, and Felton does not.

Why Charlotte does this:
The need for more physical/athletic players in the middle and a stronger scorer off the bench is apparent to me. In the case that we do not resign emeka, Sean Williams can fill a void if there is a stronger scoring PF (say Lamar Odom or Antawn Jamison). Marcus Williams is better 20-25 mpg off the bench PG who can score in bunches, however it might be an interesting test to see how he does at starter. No worse the McInnis, thats for sure

Catalysts for this trade:

Emeka does not resign with the team
Our Draft Pick is high so we can get a strong PG that would compete with M. Williams for the starting spot
We can work to get a new pf through other means


Basically think of a starting lineup:
PG Marcus Williams/Draft Pick
SG Jrich
SF Lamar Odom/Crash (Depending on trade earlier)
PF Antawn Jamison (do not resign Okafor)
C Sean Williams (Backed up by Hollins and Nazr)

Worst case is neither works out, in which they only have one year left on each of their contracts (team options available though), and they are both worth less then 1.5 million each.



the more I think about this trade, the more I wish we could try it. Maybe even try to pull a pick out of new jersey too. Worst case scenario is we send a second rounder along with ray for those two. I have been looking at numbers and stuff. In college Marcus Williams was known for his superior court vision, surrounded with some stronger players, (jrich, lamar, and antawn) we could be sick.


More for the rumor mill: I heard LA would be willing to trade odom for a high pick. Id rather keep the pick and try to go after moving okafor or wallace


Perhaps I'm too attached to our own players, but it seems like most people's suggestions completely gut the entire team minus j-rich. Maybe that's what needs to be done, but it seems like Nazr and JRich and Hammer would be the "guys who have been here a long time" and that doesn't sit with me well.

[ohara831]

I've got a trade for you all and tell me what you think:


Charlotte sends Felton to New Jersey for Marcus Williams and Sean Williams.

Why New Jersey does this:
Felton is better then either of these players alone. Felton is a terrific penetrator and he can shoot and get hot. He would serve as a better back up then Marcus Williams for Devin Harris as he can distribute better the Williams can, and he cis able to play SG. Good locker room presence. Sean Williams and Marcus Williams both have baggage, and Felton does not.

Why Charlotte does this:
The need for more physical/athletic players in the middle and a stronger scorer off the bench is apparent to me. In the case that we do not resign emeka, Sean Williams can fill a void if there is a stronger scoring PF (say Lamar Odom or Antawn Jamison). Marcus Williams is better 20-25 mpg off the bench PG who can score in bunches, however it might be an interesting test to see how he does at starter. No worse the McInnis, thats for sure

Catalysts for this trade:

Emeka does not resign with the team
Our Draft Pick is high so we can get a strong PG that would compete with M. Williams for the starting spot
We can work to get a new pf through other means


Basically think of a starting lineup:
PG Marcus Williams/Draft Pick
SG Jrich
SF Lamar Odom/Crash (Depending on trade earlier)
PF Antawn Jamison (do not resign Okafor)
C Sean Williams (Backed up by Hollins and Nazr)

Worst case is neither works out, in which they only have one year left on each of their contracts (team options available though), and they are both worth less then 1.5 million each.



the more I think about this trade, the more I wish we could try it. Maybe even try to pull a pick out of new jersey too. Worst case scenario is we send a second rounder along with ray for those two. I have been looking at numbers and stuff. In college Marcus Williams was known for his superior court vision, surrounded with some stronger players, (jrich, lamar, and antawn) we could be sick.


More for the rumor mill: I heard LA would be willing to trade odom for a high pick. Id rather keep the pick and try to go after moving okafor or wallace


Perhaps I'm too attached to our own players, but it seems like most people's suggestions completely gut the entire team minus j-rich. Maybe that's what needs to be done, but it seems like Nazr and JRich and Hammer would be the "guys who have been here a long time" and that doesn't sit with me well.


__________________________________________________ ____

I hear what you're saying, CMc$. But, if the moves make us into Winners and we are in solid Playoff contention for the next several years, I am sure the fact that our "veterans" are not such long standing Bobcats wont matter too much. Winning makes a lot of things better tasting in your mouth.

[MattD]

I love our players too, but in some ways, we have to look at this objectively, what is the best way to improve the team. If that takes using our good pieces to assemble an overall better one, then thats what I would do.

Winning is everything in this league, its a business

[WarioVsMooChicken]

I really don't think much has to be done for this team to be a 55 win team. I'll go in more detail one day when I have nothing better to do >_>.

[MattD]

I really don't think much has to be done for this team to be a 55 win team. I'll go in more detail one day when I have nothing better to do >_>.


funny thing, thats what it seems everyone who watches a team like us (Nets, Pacers, Clippers) all say they should be a 50+ win team. I would like to hear how, because I think thats a reach

[Slam]

Lets say the Wolves land the #3 overall pick. There might not be a "perfect" fit their for them to draft.

How about something like:

Wolves out:
2008 3rd overall pick
2009 1st round pick (unprotected)
Corey Brewer
Sebastian Telfair

Bobcats out:
Emeka Okafor
Adam Morrison
2009 2nd round pick

For the Wolves:
Get the perfect compliment to Jefferson and a 4 year NBA "vet" to add to their youth as well as a scoring threat in Ammo.

Foye
McCants
Ammo
Jefferson
Okafor

For the Bobcats:
Get 3rd overall pick, a back up PG, a lock down on ball defender and a high pick (the Wolves pick) next year.

We use the 2008 Wolves pick on Mayo, then use our pick (#8?) on either *Randolph, Jordan, Love or Speights and then have:

Felts - Telfair
Swish - Mayo - Hammer
Crash - Dude - Brewer
*Love - McMay - Davidson
Nazzy - Twiggy

As previously stated, ideally Mayo really hits the ground running and proves he is perfect for the NBA so we look to trade Crash and move Mayo to the starting line up with Swish sliding to the 3.

Felts - Telfair
Mayo - Hammer
Swish - Brewer
*Love - McMay - Davidson
** - Nazzy - Twiggy

* = *Randolph, Jordan, Love or Speights
** = What ever we can get for in a trade with Crash (a shot blocking 5 ideally), what ever we can draft with the Wolves 2009 pick or what ever we can trade for with a combination of Crash, the Wolves 2009 pick and our 2009 pick (should get something VERY nice with a package like that).

[ohara831]

I'd absolutely love to see that trade, but 2 issues remain assuming the ping pong balls fall as they should:

1. Would have to be a S&T with Okafor which would be after the draft; guess we could have a gentleman's agreement but the player we want has to be there and also have toa get Okafor to sign; will the Okafor salary = Telfair and Brewer?

2. I think you may be giving us too much. I cannot see Minn doing this deal with Brewer in the mix. I'd love it, but I think it may be too much to give up. Brewer has been disappointing for them his Rookie yr, but we know he is a solid Defensive presence, and his scoring should increase.

[Slam]

The deal would have to be a "wink, wink" between us and them going into the draft and knowing what we could sign EO50 for while having them pick for us (Mayo).

Looking back over it, I think you are right ohara. I think I was being greedy and I don't think the Wolves would go for it. Also, Walker would need to be included for money to work.

It would have to look more like this:

EO50 (signed for $50m/4 = $11m 1st year, $12m 2nd, $13m 3rd, $14m 4th)
Ammo ($4m)

for

Mayo ($3.7m)
Telfair ($2.5m)
Brewer ($2.6m)
Walker ($9m)

I'm thinking I would like to keep Brewer coming to us. I'd like his on ball D. How about we give them Dude? That and maybe they can protect the 2009 pick? Lotto, then top 10 then unprotected?

[dav7z]

I'd absolutely love to see that trade, but 2 issues remain assuming the ping pong balls fall as they should:

1. Would have to be a S&T with Okafor which would be after the draft; guess we could have a gentleman's agreement but the player we want has to be there and also have toa get Okafor to sign; will the Okafor salary = Telfair and Brewer?

2. I think you may be giving us too much. I cannot see Minn doing this deal with Brewer in the mix. I'd love it, but I think it may be too much to give up. Brewer has been disappointing for them his Rookie yr, but we know he is a solid Defensive presence, and his scoring should increase.


Agreeded i don't think they give up two first round picks one being a third pick. All so if we pick Mayo crash has to go . I understand the thought but not sure if thats the best way to do it.
I've been thinking somthing like Okafor for Granger and a pacers first.
Then the pacers firsr our first Crash and Ammo. for Jefferson and Telfair

Then we look like
Jefferson, Nazz
Granger , May
Dudley, Carroll
Rich, Carroll
Felton, Telfair
Getting to much , your thoughts

[MattD]

Looking back over it, I think you are right ohara. I think I was being greedy and I don't think the Wolves would go for it. Also, Walker would need to be included for money to work.


the timberwolves are building just as we are, and they need there draft picks too. It would be hard to pry their picks even for okafor. I dont really think that is what they need, he is a great piece for them, but other issues come first for that very weak front court, so no I doubt they will dish their picks

[ammofan]

Lets say the Wolves land the #3 overall pick. There might not be a "perfect" fit their for them to draft.

How about something like:

Wolves out:
2008 3rd overall pick
2009 1st round pick (unprotected)
Corey Brewer
Sebastian Telfair

Bobcats out:
Emeka Okafor
Adam Morrison
2009 2nd round pick

For the Wolves:
Get the perfect compliment to Jefferson and a 4 year NBA "vet" to add to their youth as well as a scoring threat in Ammo.

Foye
McCants
Ammo
Jefferson
Okafor

For the Bobcats:
Get 3rd overall pick, a back up PG, a lock down on ball defender and a high pick (the Wolves pick) next year.

We use the 2008 Wolves pick on Mayo, then use our pick (#8?) on either *Randolph, Jordan, Love or Speights and then have:

Felts - Telfair
Swish - Mayo - Hammer
Crash - Dude - Brewer
*Love - McMay - Davidson
Nazzy - Twiggy

As previously stated, ideally Mayo really hits the ground running and proves he is perfect for the NBA so we look to trade Crash and move Mayo to the starting line up with Swish sliding to the 3.

Felts - Telfair
Mayo - Hammer
Swish - Brewer
*Love - McMay - Davidson
** - Nazzy - Twiggy

* = *Randolph, Jordan, Love or Speights
** = What ever we can get for in a trade with Crash (a shot blocking 5 ideally), what ever we can draft with the Wolves 2009 pick or what ever we can trade for with a combination of Crash, the Wolves 2009 pick and our 2009 pick (should get something VERY nice with a package like that).



I think that trade would be great(Even though I would HATE it!), although I cant see how Adam Morrison is traded and only replaced by Corey Brewer. Brewer has not done any better than Morrison did in 06-07. Yes I do know that Brewer is a good defender but what would he do for us that Morrison wouldn't? Especially if we did trade Crash. Wouldn't we want to keep Morrison to make up for the scoring absence of Gerald? We dont know how OJ mayo would turn out(scoring wise...) either so I wouldn't completely write him in as the STARTING SHOOTING GUARD.

I would rather see a lineup of this with the same trade but replacing Morrison with possibly Sean may?!?!?

PG: Felton/Mayo
SG: Richardson/Carroll
SF: Morrison/JD
PF: *_____/Davidson/FA
C: Mohammed/Mr Twig Legs

*= Maybe we draft Love here but maybe we trade up for Lopez or down for Darrell Arthur or Donte Greene

I dont know, lol, just a few mixed thoughts

[ohara831]

The deal would have to be a "wink, wink" between us and them going into the draft and knowing what we could sign EO50 for while having them pick for us (Mayo).

Looking back over it, I think you are right ohara. I think I was being greedy and I don't think the Wolves would go for it. Also, Walker would need to be included for money to work.

It would have to look more like this:

EO50 (signed for $50m/4 = $11m 1st year, $12m 2nd, $13m 3rd, $14m 4th)
Ammo ($4m)

for

Mayo ($3.7m)
Telfair ($2.5m)
Brewer ($2.6m)
Walker ($9m)

I'm thinking I would like to keep Brewer coming to us. I'd like his on ball D. How about we give them Dude? That and maybe they can protect the 2009 pick? Lotto, then top 10 then unprotected?
_______________________________________________

Have to do something other than Walker to make the deal for me. That is another long term Contract at over $9 mil. That would tie out hands too much for the future, at least I think it would. I'd like to find a way to make the deal work, though.

I still like the ideas bantered about the other day for Odom from the Lakers. Odom and Farmar in Bobcat colors would be great. But they dont need Okafor unless Bynum's injury is career threatening. Who knows, as it seems to be a lot worse than they originally thought.

[MattD]

although I cant see how Adam Morrison is traded and only replaced by Corey Brewer. Brewer has not done any better than Morrison did in 06-07. Yes I do know that Brewer is a good defender but what would he do for us that Morrison wouldn't?


umm you said it, he actually plays defense and scores about the half probably on less shots (i havent checked). The only big difference is that on occasion Morrison is on fire and is rediculous.

But championships are built on... defense

I can see morrison being solid off the bench as a quick scorer, more effective in that role then Matt Carroll, but never a starter in the NBA or even close to an All-Star.

But I would love to be proved wrong.

[MattD]

Have to do something other than Walker to make the deal for me. That is another long term Contract at over $9 mil. That would tie out hands too much for the future, at least I think it would. I'd like to find a way to make the deal work, though.

I still like the ideas bantered about the other day for Odom from the Lakers. Odom and Farmar in Bobcat colors would be great. But they dont need Okafor unless Bynum's injury is career threatening. Who knows, as it seems to be a lot worse than they originally thought.


I was talking wallace and morrison for odom, I am not sure what the other trades were.

Then dont resign mek, pick up Jamison,
pull the felton for Marcus Williams and Sean Williams and NJ 1st rounder, (maybe we give up a second rounder)

we have a new energized scoring, athletic starting 5 with May, Carroll, Dudley, and Nazr the main guys off the bench. If May craps out again, then weve got Jermareo who could fight for a spot in the rotation if he works hard enough Hollins stays, I have seen considerable improvement

[Slam]

the timberwolves are building just as we are, and they need there draft picks too. It would be hard to pry their picks even for okafor. I dont really think that is what they need, he is a great piece for them, but other issues come first for that very weak front court, so no I doubt they will dish their picks
----------------------------

I was actually thinking that the Wolves don't need to get any younger. If anything, they need some quality player/players with NBA experience to start to bring it all together.

That's why I think EO50 would be great for them for a pick or two. They get a proven player who is a walking double double rather than take a flyer on a kid who might not pan out. The most important thing to remember is that there is really no one at #3 that would help them. If Jordan had panned out and lived up to the hype then maybe he could have been a good pick for them, but as it stands I think they could use someone like EO50 a heck of a lot more than they could Mayo, Bayless, Gordon or any of the other top 3-10 picks.

[Slam]

Have to do something other than Walker to make the deal for me. That is another long term Contract at over $9 mil.

-----------------------

I'd have to double check, but I'm pretty sure Walker only has 2 years left on his deal - which means we stash him next season and then the following season he becomes a very, very vaulable expiring which can have value.

Walker is about the only guy on the Wolves roster that would help get the deal over the line - unless there was a 3rd team involved.

[ammofan]

although I cant see how Adam Morrison is traded and only replaced by Corey Brewer. Brewer has not done any better than Morrison did in 06-07. Yes I do know that Brewer is a good defender but what would he do for us that Morrison wouldn't?


umm you said it, he actually plays defense and scores about the half probably on less shots (i havent checked). The only big difference is that on occasion Morrison is on fire and is rediculous.

But championships are built on... defense

I can see morrison being solid off the bench as a quick scorer, more effective in that role then Matt Carroll, but never a starter in the NBA or even close to an All-Star.

But I would love to be proved wrong.


Well why dont we try to get a more affective defender. We have one for sure(Gerald) but we dont know about his injurys. And Mek was another but his ability to block mshots like last season has seemed to disapper in 07-08.

If we are going to trade Okafor, I want another, defensive, bigman in return. Not sure exactly who, but maybe a gu similar to Marcus Camby???

[MattD]

Have to do something other than Walker to make the deal for me. That is another long term Contract at over $9 mil.

-----------------------

I'd have to double check, but I'm pretty sure Walker only has 2 years left on his deal - which means we stash him next season and then the following season he becomes a very, very vaulable expiring which can have value.

Walker is about the only guy on the Wolves roster that would help get the deal over the line - unless there was a 3rd team involved.


but walker refused to play for the twolves, and therefor probably wouldnt be too excited about the bobcats. maybe he would make the effort to put on a uniform and get paid 9million though

[Slam]

but walker refused to play for the twolves, and therefor probably wouldnt be too excited about the bobcats. maybe he would make the effort to put on a uniform and get paid 9million though

-------------------------

I wouldn't want him in the deal to play him when he got here. I couldn't care less if we bought him out. He's only there to make the money match.

It might be nice to hang onto him though to see what we could get for his expring contract.

[ohara831]

On the ESPN trade thingy, he was listed as 4 yrs; so I take that to mean the last 2 games this season, and then 3 full seasons. My concern is taking that salary on for 3 years from a player who may not be interested in getting on the court for us. It could tie us up for the next 3 years when it comes to signing players we want to sign or resign.

[Slam]

Interesting. RGM has him listed as 3 years?

http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/2/

and Hoopshype (even better) 4 years with the 3rd being a team option

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm

I'm pretty sure I have read Wolves fans say that he is an expiring so I'm thinking there is a team option on his contract after next season, which, even better, makes him an expiring NEXT season so we would only have to carry his $9m for 1 year!!

[spectre]

Lets say the Wolves land the #3 overall pick.  There might not be a "perfect" fit their for them to draft.

How about something like:

Wolves out:
2008 3rd overall pick
2009 1st round pick (unprotected)
Corey Brewer
Sebastian Telfair

Bobcats out:
Emeka Okafor
Adam Morrison
2009 2nd round pick

For the Wolves:
Get the perfect compliment to Jefferson and a 4 year NBA "vet" to add to their youth as well as a scoring threat in Ammo.

Foye
McCants
Ammo
Jefferson
Okafor

For the Bobcats:
Get 3rd overall pick, a back up PG, a lock down on ball defender and a high pick (the Wolves pick) next year.

We use the 2008 Wolves pick on Mayo, then use our pick (#8?) on either *Randolph, Jordan, Love or Speights and then have:

Felts - Telfair
Swish - Mayo - Hammer
Crash - Dude - Brewer
*Love - McMay - Davidson
Nazzy - Twiggy

As previously stated, ideally Mayo really hits the ground running and proves he is perfect for the NBA so we look to trade Crash and move Mayo to the starting line up with Swish sliding to the 3.

Felts - Telfair
Mayo - Hammer
Swish - Brewer
*Love - McMay - Davidson
** - Nazzy - Twiggy

* = *Randolph, Jordan, Love or Speights
** = What ever we can get for in a trade with Crash (a shot blocking 5 ideally), what ever we can draft with the Wolves 2009 pick or what ever we can trade for with a combination of Crash, the Wolves 2009 pick and our 2009 pick (should get something VERY nice with a package like that).



The deal would have to be a "wink, wink" between us and them going into the draft and knowing what we could sign EO50 for while having them pick for us (Mayo).

Looking back over it, I think you are right ohara.  I think I was being greedy and I don't think the Wolves would go for it.  Also, Walker would need to be included for money to work.

It would have to look more like this:

EO50 (signed for $50m/4 = $11m 1st year, $12m 2nd, $13m 3rd, $14m 4th)
Ammo ($4m)

for

Mayo ($3.7m)
Telfair ($2.5m)
Brewer ($2.6m)
Walker ($9m)

I'm thinking I would like to keep Brewer coming to us.  I'd like his on ball D.  How about we give them Dude?  That and maybe they can protect the 2009 pick?  Lotto, then top 10 then unprotected?


Walker has an interesting contract:

Antoine Walker's Contract (RealGM) (http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=22&topicdays=0&start=50)


SUMMATION (per your request): Either party can end the deal in June 2009 with no further obligation to the other.

If this is true...and both Sham (Sham Sports (http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp)) & Larry Coon (NBA Salary Cap FAQ (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm)) weighed in on the above thread...then Walker is in essence an expiring.  This makes his deal an ASSET.

On to the trade...

I think they're giving up too much.  Ignoring the BYC/contract stuff on Mek, Brewer is probably roughly equal to Ammo, so for Mek and a 2nd we're asking for the 3rd pick, more than likely an unprotected lottery 1st from next year and Telfair (who's turned his reputation around somewhat this season).

I think you need to drop next year's pick (edit: I see you DID in the revision...my bad)...that'd leave:

*Mek/'09 2nd/Ammo for 3rd pick '08/Walker/Telfair/Brewer.*

Honestly I'd be surprised if they'd go more than Walker + 3rd for Mek...but you never know.

I'm not as high on Brewer as last summer, and if the target for that 3rd pick is Mayo then IMO he's not needed so much.  We still need some beef (both offensively & defensively) under the rim though, so when I have more time I'd look at trading our pick backwards to pick up some help...for instance one trade thread on RealGM was about trading for Maxiell and DET's pick for an earlier pick.  That's too much for us to give up, but we could always trade back for say GSW's pick at 14th and then do that deal as well.

[Slam]

Walker, the 2008 3rd and a protected (like the Hawks to the Suns protected) future 1st for EO50 wouldn't work though - would it.

Wouldn't the Wolves have to add more salary (assuming EO50's deal starts out at around $11m)?

[spectre]

Walker, the 2008 3rd and a protected (like the Hawks to the Suns protected) future 1st for EO50 wouldn't work though - would it.

Wouldn't the Wolves have to add more salary (assuming EO50's deal starts out at around $11m)?


I think you have it backwards. Mek being BYC means we can only take back half of his salary in trade...so if he signs a 12 million per deal we can only take back 6 million in trade. The good news here is we should be under the cap and theoretically could absorb the difference. BTW, since this would have to happen after the draft we'd also have to deal with the 3rd pick's salary...before the draft there is no monetary hit in trades with picks.

IF we're under the cap enough that deal would work as it stands (and it's not bad either).

I'm not sure, but to complicate matters further I don't think another player from our side can be included with Mek in this type of deal. Could be wrong about that tho.

[Slam]

I think you have it backwards. Mek being BYC means we can only take back half of his salary in trade...so if he signs a 12 million per deal we can only take back 6 million in trade. The good news here is we should be under the cap and theoretically could absorb the difference. BTW, since this would have to happen after the draft we'd also have to deal with the 3rd pick's salary...before the draft there is no monetary hit in trades with picks.

IF we're under the cap enough that deal would work as it stands (and it's not bad either).

I'm not sure, but to complicate matters further I don't think another player from our side can be included with Mek in this type of deal. Could be wrong about that tho.

------------------

Gotcha - thanks. Having to only take back half of EO50's contract is actaully much, much better for us.

If that was the case, we could take someone like Madsen or Buckner back and take the protection off the future pick as compensation for giving up the much better player.

A 3rd overall pick usually runs at about $3.5m

Madsen = $2.7m
3rd pick = $3.5m

= $6.2m and roughly half of EO50's new contracts 1st year.

I think the "you can't trade a player with another player" is only for a guy who you have just traded for - eg, when the Hornets traded JR Smith to the Bulls and they traded him the next day to the Nuggets, no other player could be included in the deal. If they were included you have to wait to 30 days or what ever it is.

If we did this deal, I would draft Juice at #3 and maybe Jordan with our pick and hope that he can be the shot blocker/rebounder we need to replace EO50.

Felts
Juice
Swish
Crash (until we trade him to Portland for Frye and picks)
Jordan

[spectre]

Yeah, but the other team then needs to be under the cap to absorb the 6 +/- that we can't take back...which is usually a stickler.

Minny would be under enough to absorb the difference next season.

[MattD]

jordan is not looking solid, I wouldnt want him as a starter in the NBA, he is a big time project. One center who might be able to fill that role could be steven hunter. very underrated

[Slam]

jordan is not looking solid, I wouldnt want him as a starter in the NBA, he is a big time project. One center who might be able to fill that role could be steven hunter. very underrated
----------------

What I'm thinking though Matt is that we have Nazzy for the next few years so we let him start and get full value out of him. Agreed that Jordan looks risky, but if we have already got our draft pick "lock" in Mayo, why not take a flyer on the high risk, high reward Jordan? So long as he can block shots and board with some sort of effectiveness.

Then in 2 or so years when Nazzy is ready to step aside, we can ease Jordan into the starting role after easing him along.

You dig?

BTW - hear you about Hunter. About 3 years ago when he was a FA out of Pheonix I wanted to sign him. Only problem with him is that he is VERY injury prone.

I wouldn't mind Stro either - so long as we could get him on the cheap (to replace EO50)

[MattD]

Yeah that makes sense, there are lots of possibilities, though when I look Jordan with that attitude, I think I would rather chance Randolph. He is a beast, and has more potential in my opinion, though hes more of a PF, and we really dont need another developmental PF.

The thing that drives me over there, is at least he could play 35 mpg in college. Jordan couldnt. He played what like 20 minutes a game and put up ehhh numbers. Its risky, and god knows we dont need another sure thing that fails, but if we are chancing, we should do it somewhat logically. I also like JaVale McGee as a more refined Ryan Hollins, but I really think Ryan has come a LONG way this season.

Lots to think about. I am still worried about what we are going to do with all our SF's

[Slam]

How about this:

Let's say the Wolves land the 3rd overall pick.

Bobcats trade:
Future 1st round pick (lotto protected 2009, top 10 protected 2010, top 5 protected 2011, unprotected there after)
Gerald Wallace
Sean May

to the Wolves for:
2008 3rd pick (OJ Mayo)
Antoine Walker

THEN

Bobcats trade:
2008 8th pick
Othella Harrington

to the Blazers for:
2008 14th pick (DJ Augustin)
Channing Frye

Felts - DJ
Mayo - Hammer
Swish - Dude - Ammo
Frye - Davidson
EO50 - Nazzy - Twiggy

!!!

We could have a "Blazer" like draft when they nabbed LMA AND Roy and turned everything around all in one foul swoop!

[MattD]

I am still thinking of combinations of new pieces

Lamar Odom
Antawn Jamison
Andre Iguodala

If we could swing Andre Iggy and Odom to put in for Wallace and emeka I would be very down.

Iggy is sick, after watching him last night, but I would be careful, legs only last so long, hes basically a younger, more defensive jrich. I liked it though

btw big slam I tried to get a picture of him dunking on us, but i couldnt quite pull it off, sorry!

[ohara831]

Slam:

I was actually more interested in your conversation on Real GM about the Char - Port trade as follows:

Charl trades #8 and Sean May

for

#14 , #34 and Channing Frye

It seemed not too disagreeable with the Portland guys. It would be fine with me, too. Frye is getting better as a PF in my opinion. And we can then grab someone like Westbrook with #14 who can be a terrific Combo Guard to spell both Ray and J-Rich and get about 25 min per game, and with the #34, grab a decent big (Hickson from NC State would be good with that pick), or perhaps package that pick with someone else to move back into the 1st and grab someone like Ibaka.

[Chef]

philly will not part with iggy. at best (for them) it is an even swap for wallace. he is the face of their franchise, which cruised to the playoffs with cap room to spare. iggy is out of the question.

[Slam]

I'm starting to think that Mayo would be better for us than Iggy any ways - because he'll be on his rookie deal and a lot cheaper.

That's why I am trying to figure out a way to secure that 3rd overall pick.

[Slam]

How about:

Nazzy, Pig Boy and the 8th pick

for

Camby

[spectre]

How about:

Nazzy, Pig Boy and the 8th pick

for

Camby

Camby's kind of old don't you think? Just turned 34. His offense hasn't been very good the last few years but his defense has stayed fairly solid...but then he'd be duplicating a lot of Mek wouldn't he? I'm pretty sure he can guard the perimeter better than Mek can, but that seems like a pretty high price.

[Slam]

Camby's kind of old don't you think? Just turned 34. His offense hasn't been very good the last few years but his defense has stayed fairly solid...but then he'd be duplicating a lot of Mek wouldn't he? I'm pretty sure he can guard the perimeter better than Mek can, but that seems like a pretty high price.

He's only a couple of years older than Nazzy. He can play the high post (he has range on his J) and is a good passer for a big. He can also put the ball on the floor.

He plays wonderful help D - which would compliment EO50's post D.

He's what I would hope Anthony Randolph "might" become in several years.

In retrospect though, you might be right. It might be a bit much.

So we get them to add their #20 2008 pick.

:shrug:

[dav7z]

Im liking this draft class less and less. And WALLACE has more value than any player we have. As far as the bigs to me this it's Beasley and nothing else. Mayo , Gordon, Westbrook and may be even Ellington or CDR late. as wings whitch we stacked at.
So what do we do . We in despret need of a foward foward who will contribute right away assuming Okafor is a center . So what is the best we could come up with in our situation. Right now im willing to give up our first and or Wallace to make the team better. What could we get in exchange.

[spectre]

He's only a couple of years older than Nazzy. He can play the high post (he has range on his J) and is a good passer for a big. He can also put the ball on the floor.

He plays wonderful help D - which would compliment EO50's post D.

He's what I would hope Anthony Randolph "might" become in several years.

In retrospect though, you might be right. It might be a bit much.

So we get them to add their #20 2008 pick.

:shrug:

If he was making Nazr's money I'd be all for it...but as it is I'd pass. Rather invest that kind of cash in a true PF.

[Slam]

If he was making Nazr's money I'd be all for it...but as it is I'd pass. Rather invest that kind of cash in a true PF.

He has a year less on his contract (which is front loaded). By Camby's last year he earns $7.5 mil. By Nazzy's last year he earns $6.8 mill.

That and Camby is a LOT more effective than Nazzy - at both ends - which gives you more bang for your buck.

[spectre]

He has a year less on his contract (which is front loaded). By Camby's last year he earns $7.5 mil. By Nazzy's last year he earns $6.8 mill.

That and Camby is a LOT more effective than Nazzy - at both ends - which gives you more bang for your buck.

Where are you getting that? Per DE & Sham Camby is making 11,250,000 next year and 10.9 million the year after. Nazr's making 6,049,000, 6,466,600 & 6,883,800.

I wonder if we can include Harrington in a trade without his permission? I know we have his option, but that'd still make him some sort of FA wouldn't it?

[Slam]

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/denver.htm

[Alex]

Having traded our pick last season I think we should just relax with the trade talk and get our man in the draft. This team is good enough with the roster and coach we have to make the playoffs in the East. No trade we make is gonna turn us into a championship contender from this season to the next so I don't think it's worth giving a way future draft picks.

[spectre]

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/denver.htm

Hoopshype = worst salary reference. I'm surprised you're not using DE's new salary page.

They don't even have Hammer's salary in past this season.

[mrtarheel]

How about we go after a gordon, thomas and duhon trade which would help us at all positions. We would have to give up crash although i love his energy but we would have a line up to kill.

felts / duhon
gordon / carroll
j rich / morrison / dudley
thomas / may / davidson
meka / nazr / hollis

Picking up a big in the draft and try for either bass from dallas or milsap from utah. If we had a high pick we could then go for best avaliable and let them grow. Duhon would even have to be in the trade because they seem to be letting him go anyway.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

We really don't need to make that many changes to our roster. Boykins is a solid back up pg to Raymond Felton. His size is a worry but if I recall Mugsy Bogues was a pretty good player that was short but he had a nice long career. Boykins is quick and is able to get a lot of steals. That makes up for his short stature.

The only real weakness that I can see on this team is a bit of depth and a low post physical presence defensively that can score as well in the low post. A player who has solid square up shooting abilities and a back to the basket scoring repertoire that will free up perimeter shooters. That player would be Jermaine O'Neal. He has been injured for a couple seasons but I say he is ready for a comeback in a big way.

Also, this team needs to get rid of GWall and pick up a better more accurate shooter that has a faster trigger. JJ Redick may be available on the cheap and if given adequate playing time could really fit with Matt Carroll. A team can never have too many sharp shooters.

Those are areas I would look to make trades. I would trade for Redick but would see to it that he was given incentives to determine what we give up for him.

We most likely are going to take a PF with our first pick in the draft. Since Jermaine O'Neal is a PF/C it might be something the Pacers would consider with another solid player thrown in.

Those are things I would do. Still I am not a GM and would never be hired for such so I am only giving my amateur opinions. I doubt we will ever go in this direction but I feel these are moves that could work wonders. The difference between barely making the playoffs and being a top seed in my opinion.

[swetooth9]

We really don't need to make that many changes to our roster. Boykins is a solid back up pg to Raymond Felton. His size is a worry but if I recall Mugsy Bogues was a pretty good player that was short but he had a nice long career. Boykins is quick and is able to get a lot of steals. That makes up for his short stature.

The only real weakness that I can see on this team is a bit of depth and a low post physical presence defensively that can score as well in the low post. A player who has solid square up shooting abilities and a back to the basket scoring repertoire that will free up perimeter shooters. That player would be Jermaine O'Neal. He has been injured for a couple seasons but I say he is ready for a comeback in a big way.

Also, this team needs to get rid of GWall and pick up a better more accurate shooter that has a faster trigger. JJ Redick may be available on the cheap and if given adequate playing time could really fit with Matt Carroll. A team can never have too many sharp shooters.

Those are areas I would look to make trades. I would trade for Redick but would see to it that he was given incentives to determine what we give up for him.

We most likely are going to take a PF with our first pick in the draft. Since Jermaine O'Neal is a PF/C it might be something the Pacers would consider with another solid player thrown in.

Those are things I would do. Still I am not a GM and would never be hired for such so I am only giving my amateur opinions. I doubt we will ever go in this direction but I feel these are moves that could work wonders. The difference between barely making the playoffs and being a top seed in my opinion.

if you are intending that we trade g-force for reddick, then HELLZ NAWWW...for someone else, maybe

g-force just needs to stay healthy and stop shooting too many jumpers (or practice on making more of them this summer)

[dvdbumpus]

Yes, please never mention JJ Redick and Crash in a trade unless it includes dwight howard.

[spectre]

I don't see Chicago's need for Crash...they'd want Mek. So far as the players I'm not really jonesing for Gordan; he turned down 10 million per and his liabilities really stunt his offensive prowess. If a trade went with them I'd hope we'd be after their young guys...no Hinrich/Gordon/Deng.

JON...can not stand the guy. He's WAY overpaid and he always "disappears" in games. Now he seems injury prone. This past season they really seemed to start clicking without JON and he didn't really help them when he came back.

I wouldn't want him if the only cost was crap just because of his salary.

We don't need Redick, we have the Hammer (who's actually shown he can play in the NBA). So far as fitting "with" Hammer, a team can only take so many defensive liabilities. Two BAD defensive players...and don't forget we still have Ammo...will flat out not work.

Redick can't even get past Keith Bogans for Christ's sake.

[MattD]

He's only a couple of years older than Nazzy. He can play the high post (he has range on his J) and is a good passer for a big. He can also put the ball on the floor.

He plays wonderful help D - which would compliment EO50's post D.

He's what I would hope Anthony Randolph "might" become in several years.

In retrospect though, you might be right. It might be a bit much.

So we get them to add their #20 2008 pick.

:shrug:

by pig boy did you mean sean may? I think it might be tough to get them to accept that. Denver really wants less cap constraints, they wont touch Nazr.

[mrtarheel]

Jermaine O'neal would be a good fit seeing that all we were really missing was some low post points. That would allow Okafor to be the defensive man he is and not put to much of a burden on him for scoring. He could settle in at a cool 10pts 15reb. and 3blks. per game. J Oneal would take up the scoring. I just don't see how we could get him though. He is owed over 19mil and I don't know what or who we would give up. Perfect fit but wishful thinking, but I hope that it would come true. He would benefit from Coach Brown's coaching also and would fill in alot of our holes in the paint.

[ohara831]

You know, I love the guys on our team. But to say we dont need to change "too much" is simply over valueing our personnel. For Pete's sake, we won 33 games 2 yrs ago, and 32 this past yr. Face it, we need to make changes. We need better players with better Coaching and better team chemistry to make this work. What we have cannot become a great team with just some "tweeking" here or there. It takes a couple major improvments. Getting LB was a great move. Now, we make some moves to adjust to create a team which is solid in ALL areas - does not have too much in one area and therefore be lacking in another. Dont be over positive and fool yourself. We all did that this past season. Yes, the Coach sucked and hurt us, but he was not the only reason. And no, May and Morrison did not cost us 40 pts of production a night. That was a stupid statment by Vincent earlier this season. They might have avg 25 for us, but their replacements scored also, so the loss was fairly nominal.

Okafor is small for a Center, but can play it. He needs more post moves. He does not have any shot outside of 6 ft, so he is not a good PF for us. Crash and J-Rich are both explosive, but very similar in skill sets. Too duplicative and if Crash can be moved for a True SG, then we can move J-Rich to SF where he belongs. I think this is the yr that Felton blossoms into a solid PG - or he fails at it and we then learn we need a new PG. May, Morrison, Dudley,Carroll and Davidson are good bench players, but only Dudley has the potential to be a starter in the future for us or any other team. Still, every team needs 5 guys who they know can come in and contribute, and those 5 can do it.

No, tweeking will not help. We need action. We need someone to come in and make the RIGHT moves. Not just any moves, but the RIGHT moves. Otherwise, we are in for another sub .500 yr - even with Larry Brown.

[Slam]

We need the same sort of draft and free agency that the Blazers had the year before last when they scooped in and landed Roy AND LMA and added some nice, cheap FA's.

[Slam]

BTW- I don't think we are as far away as you are painting us to be ohara. Last seasons record did not reflect the team that we are and are capible of.

[ohara831]

How about giving Denver Crash and Carroll, we take Melo, and we swap 1st rounders?
They get a higher pick, and two good players. WE get Melo to play with J-Rich and then still likely draft Love with our 1st rounder. You do it?

[mrtarheel]

If melo talks fall thru what about Jamal Crawford from the Knicks. Maybe we could squeeze Crawford and Curry for Wallace, a pick and Morrison.
Felts /
Crawford / Carroll
J Rich / Dudley
Okafor / May / Davidson
Curry / Nazr / Hollins

We still have to pick up some more players on the cheap but that is a good lineup and for those pf's that move around 15 to 18 ft. away from the basket we use May and Davidson on them and focus on a backup pg.

[MattD]

no way. I would never accept any offer with Curry on our team. Laziest player in the NBA. Terrible for the locker room

[spectre]

no way. I would never accept any offer with Curry on our team. Laziest player in the NBA. Terrible for the locker room

+1.

I wouldn't mind Crawford if he'd agree to take about half his salary (he's making 9 million average over the next 2)...I've been wanting a REAL combo guard for 2-3 years now.

And before someone suggests Robinson, I'd prefer him to be over 6'3" please.

[Slam]

In the Observer today Bonnell writes:

"Jason Richardson and Gerald Wallace could struggle, as a starting pair, to accomplish what Brown expects defensively. Richardson isn’t a particularly good defender. Wallace is, but more in a takeaway, risk-taking manner. Brown, the assistant surmises, would sacrifice some of Wallace’s takeaways in return for better defensive positioning."

He also mentions:

" Finally, it won’t surprise this assistant if Brown lobbies for acquiring a mid-size defender off another team to play the role George Lynch did in Philadelphia. Just a guess, the assistant said, but Atlanta’s Josh Childress might fit that description."

I'm a bit of a fan of Chil. I think he is very underrated by most non Hawks fans and think he would be a great fit. He's a poor mans Iggy in a lot of ways.

How about something like:

Crash, Ammo and Hammer
for
Chil (signed for 5/25), Marvin and Speedy

Then we sign Gerald Green to a very low deal and use him as our shooter off the bench to replace the Hammer?

Felts - Chil - Swish - Marvin - EO50


*Edited to include Ammo and Marvin and to take out the Hawks 2008 1st because they dont have a 2008 1st!!

[MattD]

In the Observer today Bonnell writes:

"Jason Richardson and Gerald Wallace could struggle, as a starting pair, to accomplish what Brown expects defensively. Richardson isn’t a particularly good defender. Wallace is, but more in a takeaway, risk-taking manner. Brown, the assistant surmises, would sacrifice some of Wallace’s takeaways in return for better defensive positioning."

He also mentions:

" Finally, it won’t surprise this assistant if Brown lobbies for acquiring a mid-size defender off another team to play the role George Lynch did in Philadelphia. Just a guess, the assistant said, but Atlanta’s Josh Childress might fit that description."

I'm a bit of a fan of Chil. I think he is very underrated by most non Hawks fans and think he would be a great fit. He's a poor mans Iggy in a lot of ways.

How about something like:

Crash and Hammer
for
Chil (signed for 5/25), Speedy and thier 2008 1st round pick (#15)

Then we sign Gerald Green to a very low deal and use him as our shooter off the bench to replace the Hammer?

Felts - Chil - Swish - McMay? - EO50

I really dont like that. I dont think we become much better, Speedy is basically useless. I think Atlanta would be getting away with highway robbery. GW is too good for that trade.

[Slam]

I really dont like that. I dont think we become much better, Speedy is basically useless. I think Atlanta would be getting away with highway robbery. GW is too good for that trade.

Check out the do over Matt and tell me what you think.

[MattD]

Check out the do over Matt and tell me what you think.

that makes it more interesting for sure. I think Marvin Williams is finally starting to settle into the NBA; his game has flaws as a PF for us, but still he has lots of development room. He isnt a huge rebounder, an area where we really need to improve.

The immediate thought that pops into my mind though, is would Atlanta really be willing to deal two of there important players for Gerald, Hammer and Ammo. They finally made it to the playoffs, do you think if we just made the playoffs we'd be willing to trade away pieces of our core for some players who havent proved themselves in winning? I wouldnt.

Past that, I like Swish at the 3, so the deal becomes more tempting. I guess I would have to think about it more, and if I were actually the GM, talk to Larry Brown about it. A bonus is, DJ Augustine may be still available at 15, which would be a solid pickup.

[Slam]

The immediate thought that pops into my mind though, is would Atlanta really be willing to deal two of there important players for Gerald, Hammer and Ammo. They finally made it to the playoffs, do you think if we just made the playoffs we'd be willing to trade away pieces of our core for some players who havent proved themselves in winning? I wouldnt.

One of the biggest things the Hawks fans say they are missing is long range shooting and bench production. Hammer brings the long range shooting and Ammo the bench production. Those two should help take some of the weight of JJ's back.

My only concern is IF Marvin can play the 4. I don't know him well enough to know. He seems to have the size for it and should be able to handle the Bosh's etc? He'd also give us a guy down low to go to.

I think that Speedy (when healthy) is a LB type vet PG - and he only has 2 years left on his deal.

I think that Felts, Chil and Swish would be real nice together for us.

[mrtarheel]

What about a trade with the clippers? We offer Wallace and a pick for Maggette and Thornton. This gives us the sg that we could use on the wing and a pf with the ability to play some backup sf. Then we go for a trade of Ammo and another pick for Jack and Frye. Maybe if they were willing throw in Carroll and try to get Webster away from them. He could be expandable since they could use Roy at the 2 and Morrison at the 3 giving them a backup sg. This would give us a lineup like

Felts / Jack
Maggette / Webster
J Rich / Dudley / Thornton
Frye / May / Davidson
Okafor / Nazr / Hollins

This would leave us with roster spots that could be fill with free agents. Sign a veteran backup pg and maybe Gerald Green who could play sf and sg and maybe go after Magloire or a proven center who could come in and be a serviceable backup. This gives us changeable parts because we would have athletes that could play different positions if someone was to get hurt. This would also give us the wing defender that we need with Maggette.

[dvdbumpus]

What about a trade with the clippers? We offer Wallace and a pick for Maggette and Thornton. This gives us the sg that we could use on the wing and a pf with the ability to play some backup sf. Then we go for a trade of Ammo and another pick for Jack and Frye. Maybe if they were willing throw in Carroll and try to get Webster away from them. He could be expandable since they could use Roy at the 2 and Morrison at the 3 giving them a backup sg. This would give us a lineup like

Felts / Jack
Maggette / Webster
J Rich / Dudley / Thornton
Frye / May / Davidson
Okafor / Nazr / Hollins

This would leave us with roster spots that could be fill with free agents. Sign a veteran backup pg and maybe Gerald Green who could play sf and sg and maybe go after Magloire or a proven center who could come in and be a serviceable backup. This gives us changeable parts because we would have athletes that could play different positions if someone was to get hurt. This would also give us the wing defender that we need with Maggette.


I like the first part, but I wouldn't do the Jack and Frye trade for AMMO. I'd put Thornton at the 4. From there I'd draft another PF or C, or really the BPA.

[amour217]

How's this for interesting? From RealGM: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/52582/20080518/dantoni_big_on_crawford_robinson_less_on_lee/

If D'Antoni isn't too high on Lee, what will it take to pick him up? I'd love to have him on our squad...he's high-energy and hard-work

[ohara831]

That's crazy. Lee can play the PF very well if he's given the chance to start. If I could trade for him, depending upon the price, he'd be a very good PF for us.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

if you are intending that we trade g-force for reddick, then HELLZ NAWWW...for someone else, maybe

g-force just needs to stay healthy and stop shooting too many jumpers (or practice on making more of them this summer)
No way would I trade G-Force for JJ Redick. Neither can be compared to the other. Gerald is a better all around player but Redick is a sharp shooting assassin. If we had two good spot up shooters it would make us a better team. JJ could play spot duty and come in when we needed an extra deep threat to spread the defenses of Bobcats opponents.

I would however think that Redick may be available for some sort of trade that would be fair to both teams. Nobody can say JJ can't play, he gets way to few minutes per game. If the Magic wasn't deep at his position he may see playing time.

If you all recall how lethal we looked at times two seasons ago when both Herrmann and Carroll were shooting well from deep you would agree that having that kind of threat again would be big. Now that LB is the coach of the Bobcats he would utilize two spot up shooters very well.

I used to detest Redick but since he is no longer taking it to one of my favorite sports teams I have no problem with him.

[uncballer1288]

How about trading for Charlie Villanueva? He recently expressed interest in a trade out of milwaukee, and I think the bobcats should try to get him. He's 6-11, quick, can extend the defense with his range out to the 3-point line, and can rebound pretty well. I think he plays alot like Rasheed Wallace.

Pair Villanueva with Okafor down low, and i think you can make a fair comparison to Rasheed and Ben Wallace (a much younger version) when LB was the coach in Detroit.

I think we can offer them the #9 pick (which we'll probably use on a PF anyway) and a player TBA, possibly Jermareo Davidson or Adam Morrison

[x2pacalypse]

How about trading for Charlie Villanueva? He recently expressed interest in a trade out of milwaukee, and I think the bobcats should try to get him. He's 6-11, quick, can extend the defense with his range out to the 3-point line, and can rebound pretty well. I think he plays alot like Rasheed Wallace.

Pair Villanueva with Okafor down low, and i think you can make a fair comparison to Rasheed and Ben Wallace (a much younger version) when LB was the coach in Detroit.

I think we can offer them the #9 pick (which we'll probably use on a PF anyway) and a player TBA, possibly Jermareo Davidson or Adam Morrison

#9 and ammo for villanueva and their 2nd rounder? i would do that in a second as it instantly addresses our biggest need

[ohara831]

If Charlie V. was as good as we would want, he wouldn't be splitting time with Yi. It makes me a little wary to give up our #9 and Ammo for Charlie V. and their 2nd. Not bad though, so if I study it hard enough, I might would pull the trigger if I could get over those few jitters.

[spectre]

That's too much for CV, esp. when we could probably do Ammo/9th for Frye/Jack/13th.

Ammo + our 2nd for CV is the very most I would offer and really the 2nd is overpaying IMO. Both play crappy defense and both "can" score. Due to Ammo's season out they both can also be considered injury prone. Both are going from a team's position of strength to a position of need.

One disappointing lottery pick for another (and our's was higher).

[mrtarheel]

That would be to much for Charlie V. Maybe a even trade or something of a swoping of 2nd. They want him out of Mil. so they can play Ji more and not have to worry about the fans wanting charlie v more playing time and get rid of salaries. They need a shooter which ammo would feel that need. I would only do the charlie v deal if it was the last one on the board in which we could get a pf. There are better options out there I think that we could get more for with our picks and players. I would keep it in mind though.

[ALong13]

Someone offered this deal from the Heat at PSD...I kind of liked it, definitely if Chicago would commit to Rose

Charlotte Bobcats recieves: C Marc Blount, PG Marcus Banks, #2 Pick

Miami Heat recieves: PF Emeka Okafor #9 pick

I'd definitely do that deal if Miami would...Imagine this

PG: Raymond Felton (Marcus Banks, FA/2nd round pick)
SG: JRich (Matt Carroll)
SF: Crash (Morrison, Dudley)
PF: Beasley (Sean May, Jermareo Davidson)
C: Nazr Mohammed (Mark Blount, Ryan Hollins)

[Mustachio]

Someone offered this deal from the Heat at PSD...I kind of liked it, definitely if Chicago would commit to Rose

Charlotte Bobcats recieves: C Marc Blount, PG Marcus Banks, #2 Pick

Miami Heat recieves: PF Emeka Okafor #9 pick

I'd definitely do that deal if Miami would...Imagine this

PG: Raymond Felton (Marcus Banks, FA/2nd round pick)
SG: JRich (Matt Carroll)
SF: Crash (Morrison, Dudley)
PF: Beasley (Sean May, Jermareo Davidson)
C: Nazr Mohammed (Mark Blount, Ryan Hollins)


that in theory looks good. but its awfully dependent on Beasley being successful in the NBA. which i have no doubt he can be. but its still a little gamble.

[Slam]

I really like Chris Bosh and think that he would be perfect for our team.

Do you think there is any way in hell we can get him?

IF BC is as high on Bargs as the Raps fans say that he is, moving Bosh would allow Bargs to play his natural position of PF. But Bargs needs a banging defender type next to him to maximize his potential.

Here's what I'm thinking:

EO50, Ammo and a future 1st (lightly protected)
for
Bosh

Then with the #9 pick we take Jordan to play the 5 and replace the shot blocking/boarding we would lose by trading E050.

The other option would be:

EO50, Ammo and the #9
for
Bosh and the #17

and then at #17 we take the best big on the board (Hibbert/R.Lopez/Hardin/Alexis Ajinca/McGee etc)

Ideally:

Felts
Swish
Crash
Bosh
Jordan

Thoughts?

[mrtarheel]

For the Rapts to give up Bosh for Okafor would be like the Memphis LA deal, under the table dealings between friends.

[ohara831]

Okafor, Ammo and #9 for Bosh and #17 actually sounds like something sound for both teams. You ought to run it by RGM and see what response you get. My feeling is if you get a mixed reply from BOTH teams, then it is probably fair.

[Slam]

Okafor, Ammo and #9 for Bosh and #17 actually sounds like something sound for both teams. You ought to run it by RGM and see what response you get. My feeling is if you get a mixed reply from BOTH teams, then it is probably fair.

I would - except the Raps fans are the most unreasonable fans on the planet and I couldn't be bothered with the BS responses I would get.

That's why I wanted to run it by you guys here - because I know that you will look at it impartially.

Do you think that the 1st idea isn't fair ohara? (EO50, Ammo and a future 1st for Bosh?)

That would be the deal I would prefer for us.

[ohara831]

I honestly think that Toronto would require the #9 and #17 swap. A future 1st would almost certainly be much lower than #9. If we landed Bosh and had the #9 , I think we would certainly be a Playoff team and that future pick would be in the 20's. That would be the kind of team who can threaten for the Eastern Title. I think if we get Bosh and the #17, we still make the Playoffs and can advance depending on our seeding. Nazr can hold down the Center hole, but grabbing someone with #17 like McGee or Hibbard might be very solid planning for the future.

[Slam]

A future 1st would almost certainly be much lower than #9. If we landed Bosh and had the #9 , I think we would certainly be a Playoff team and that future pick would be in the 20's.

That is a very good point and I agree. The pick swap would be much more attractive to the Raps than a future 1st.

So then I guess it would boil down to what would be better for us. A combo of:

EO50 and Randolph (for eg)
or
Bosh and R.Lopez (for eg)

[ohara831]

I think I would go with Bosh and any one of McGee, Hibbard or Lopez. Okafor is limited enough offensively and we would have to wait 2-3 yrs for Randolph to make any impact and I dont think we can afford to wait. The fans in Charlotte wont sit back and watch losing for another 2-3 yrs. We have to make a significant stride forward this season with LB to build up our fan base in the future.

[amour217]

we have to remember that if Larry Brown stays true to form, whoever we draft with the #9 will probably not get too much burn...at least not in the first season, unless 1) there are a ton of injuries, or 2) we play terribly out of the gate. I know we Bobcats fans are anxious to get to the playoffs and have winning seasons from here on out, so that being said, I think our front office definitely has to explore EVERY opportunity to deal our pick for an impact veteran.

[MattD]

we have to remember that if Larry Brown stays true to form, whoever we draft with the #9 will probably not get too much burn...at least not in the first season, unless 1) there are a ton of injuries, or 2) we play terribly out of the gate. I know we Bobcats fans are anxious to get to the playoffs and have winning seasons from here on out, so that being said, I think our front office definitely has to explore EVERY opportunity to deal our pick for an impact veteran.

if youve listened to him talk over the past 2 months, all he has talked about is developing talent and teaching player. 9 will get plenty of burn, if we still have the pick.

[DirtyU11]

I honestly think that Toronto would require the #9 and #17 swap.

I dont think that is enough for us to get Bosh. He is turning 24 and is an all star player. A 22 and 10 guy. I think we would have to give up Emeka, Crash, and Morrison, #38 to get Bosh and #17. Take Jordan for rebounding and blocks he dosent need to take any shots with Bosh on the floor. Then take the best SF left at 17. Maybe im overpaying but i think the raptors would laugh at Emeka, Ammo, #9 for Bosh let alone for #17 as well.

Thoughts?

[amour217]

if youve listened to him talk over the past 2 months, all he has talked about is developing talent and teaching player. 9 will get plenty of burn, if we still have the pick.


I'll believe it when I see it, in terms of playing time. You can teach and develop a player all you want in practice, but that doesn't translate into considerable playing time right away. I just don't think whoever we draft at 9 will step in right away to be an impact player, not like we're expecting, anyhow

[Slam]

I dont think that is enough for us to get Bosh. He is turning 24 and is an all star player. A 22 and 10 guy. I think we would have to give up Emeka, Crash, and Morrison, #38 to get Bosh and #17. Take Jordan for rebounding and blocks he dosent need to take any shots with Bosh on the floor. Then take the best SF left at 17. Maybe im overpaying but i think the raptors would laugh at Emeka, Ammo, #9 for Bosh let alone for #17 as well.

Thoughts?

I think that while the Raps are an ok team, they aren't a deep playoff team and they sure aren't a championship team. The last two years have shown that.

You may be right (that they would want EO50, Crash and Ammo for him) but I think that they might value a pick more.

I do dig what you are saying though. If we did have to give up Crash and we had the #9 and #17 we could still take Jordan at #9 and someone like Batum should be around when the #17 comes into play.

Worse comes to worse we start the season with a line up of

Felts - Swish - Dude - Bosh - Nazzy

and then "if" the young guys get it, close the season out with:

Felts - Swish - Batum - Bosh - Jordan

I think that I would be ok with that.

[DirtyU11]

Big Slam I would be all for giving them #9 instead of crash. I would prefer that over my trade. A lineup of Ray-Jrich-Crash-Bosh-Nazz would be great. I would like to get #17 in the trade so we can get a big like Hibbert. LB seemed to be really high on him and thinks he is ready to play.

#9, OK50, Ammo, #38 for Bosh and #17 ?

Think that is fair both ways or what would you change?

[Slam]

#9, OK50, Ammo, #38 for Bosh and #17 ?

Think that is fair both ways or what would you change?

I think that would be a great trade for both teams Dirty.

If someone like Gordon did drop to #9 and the Raps drafted him, they would have a pretty soild line up.

Jose - Gordon - Parker - Bargs - EO50

[ohara831]

Dirty: I would be all over that trade in a second. Man, if MJ could pull that off, he'd have a very happy fan base.

[Slam]

We'd take Doc Hibbert at #17.

Felts - Swish - Crash - CB4 - Doc

Me likely a lot!!

[Icky Thump]

Big Slam I would be all for giving them #9 instead of crash. I would prefer that over my trade. A lineup of Ray-Jrich-Crash-Bosh-Nazz would be great. I would like to get #17 in the trade so we can get a big like Hibbert. LB seemed to be really high on him and thinks he is ready to play.

#9, OK50, Ammo, #38 for Bosh and #17 ?

Think that is fair both ways or what would you change?

That is a great trade both ways IMO!!! Someone call people in the front office NOW!!

[Keetch]

LOL okayyyy

Chris Bosh is a blue chip franchise-making caliber player. He's oh whaddyacallit, a rare stud.

So if the Raptors are insane enough to make one of the deals suggested here, then yeah I'd do it in an eye-blink.

Imagine, trading Bosh to make room for Bargnani. Only in the NBA babee, only in the NBA.

[DirtyU11]

I think this is great both ways. Lineup of ray-jrich-crash-bosh-hibbert would be nasty. someone post this trade on realgm(i dont have an account) and see what they think

[Slam]

Imagine, trading Bosh to make room for Bargnani. Only in the NBA babee, only in the NBA.

There are many more dimensions to the trade than opening up PT for Bargs. I think you are neglecting to look at the big picture.

[Keetch]

Probably so, Slam probably so :D but I just liked the Bosh/Bargnani comp as it was, and the beauty of it may be that it sounds just dumb enough to be true.

Honestly, I believe the Raps have an awesome core in Bosh and Calderon with Parker as a solid role player, but the rest of their roster is pretty useless; well .. with the possible exception of the Slovenian Gangsta.

I think they'd be smart to build around those three, not trade them off, but who knows what they might do?

Hell yes, I'd take Bosh off their hands!

[MattD]

how about something like this:

S&T Emeka at say 8.5 mill per to New Jersey

Charlotte sends: Mek

New Jersey Sends: Marcus Williams 1.2
Sean Williams 1.2
Keith Van Horn 4.2
10th Pick in the Draft (with a contract around 1.8 mill)
21st Pick (1 mill)

I think that works well with both sides. Problem is, it has to be after the draft, so it wouldnt work, mek wouldnt have been signed, to many questionmarks. oh well

[Slam]

I like that deal Matt and would like it even more if we could combine some of those picks and move up to the Mayo end of the draft, but a few things bother me.

I've already read reports that say that Sean Williams has been a real distraction in the Nets locker room. His attitude is very questionable, although his skill set is undeniable.

The big thing is though: If EO50 can be signed for $8.5 mil per I would rather keep him for ourselves. That would be a bargin.

[Slam]

Honestly, I believe the Raps have an awesome core in Bosh and Calderon with Parker as a solid role player, but the rest of their roster is pretty useless!

That's the key Keetch. They are an ok team, but I seriously doubt (unless something big changes) and don't think they are any better than a 1st round playoff team. Bosh is great and Jose is good, but that's pretty much where is starts and ends with them.

My idea allows them to see if Bargs can live up to the hype (he has shown some good things at times) as well as brings in a rock solid defensive stud (EO50) to make the core along with Jose and a top 10 pick which would help them fill that hole at the 2/3 spot and maybe replace the star power that Bosh brought them.

Maybe someone like Gordon will drop and they could play him at the 2 and play Parker at the 3? Maybe they could go with Gallinari (who would fit in with the Euro flavour of the Raps roster) at the 3 and leave Parker at the 2? Maybe they go with the upside pick and draft Alexander?

Either way, my trade idea means they lose their best player, but it also means they get a deeper, more balanced roster.

[spectre]

Trade challenge:

Look to trade back and draft Hibbert while acquiring a young PF as the kicker and Nazr as the cost. IMO that won’t be so hard as posters on the trade board have realized there are virtually no Cs in FA this year. A PG wouldn’t be bad (say getting Marcus Williams), but I think a PF (like Blatche maybe) is pretty paramount.

I'll give it a go when I get some spare time

[ALong13]

nbadraft.net has Hibbert going 18th now...so may want to trade a bit in front of that to secure him...I'd love to get Nazr's contract away, but I just don't see it happening...

[spectre]

One other possibility in the realm of conspiracy: we're working a trade for Jamison that would have us swap picks with Washington. The bad part: Crash would be on the way out.

Snatched from the other thread (maybe I should have done this in there?).

Pretty sure there's restrictions in S&T deals...can other players be included? Also he's a FA which means he can't be discussed in thrades until July. But regardless:

Jamison (re-signed at 10 per for 3 years)/18th pick

for

Nazr/Harrington (option picked up)/9th.

What would the Wiz think of that? Nazr does spread the floor more than Haywood...maybe they choose Randolph with the 9th?

[Mustachio]

Snatched from the other thread (maybe I should have done this in there?).

Pretty sure there's restrictions in S&T deals...can other players be included? Also he's a FA which means he can't be discussed in thrades until July. But regardless:

Jamison (re-signed at 10 per for 3 years)/18th pick

for

Nazr/Harrington (option picked up)/9th.

What would the Wiz think of that? Nazr does spread the floor more than Haywood...maybe they choose Randolph with the 9th?


I mean I would be much more inclined to just take Randolph if he is available at 9. Hibbert is as much of a gamble as Randolph is in my opinion and Jamison doesn't have much left and isn't my idea of a prototypical PF.

So i think its much more of a gamble to take Hibbert and Jamison than it is to just use the 9 on Randolph (this of course if he is still available.

[dvdbumpus]

We'd take Doc Hibbert at #17.

Felts - Swish - Crash - CB4 - Doc

Me likely a lot!!

If we had Bosh I'd handle Hibbert, Jordan, or Robin Lopez. Hell, I'd just be happy having Nazr next to CB4. Then draft the BPA from there.

[Slam]

Trade challenge:

Look to trade back and draft Hibbert while acquiring a young PF as the kicker and Nazr as the cost. IMO that won’t be so hard as posters on the trade board have realized there are virtually no Cs in FA this year. A PG wouldn’t be bad (say getting Marcus Williams), but I think a PF (like Blatche maybe) is pretty paramount.

I'll give it a go when I get some spare time

Good to see you come over to the good side with me and Ziggy Spectre!! There is plenty of room on the Doc Hibbert band wagon for you my friend.

Hibbert is great (funny that people laughed at me when I had him so high in my original mocks and now he is climbing back up everyones boards!!). How about something with the GSW's again and B.Wright? Pity it's Nazzy you have on the block and not EO50. Me thinks they would jump at the chance to land him.

Wonder if something like EO50 would land us B.Wright, the #14 (Doc) and Al Harrington (expiring who has value and we would look to move).

Then we would still have the #9 to draft the BPA.

[spectre]

Good to see you come over to the good side with me and Ziggy Spectre!! There is plenty of room on the Doc Hibbert band wagon for you my friend.

Hibbert is great (funny that people laughed at me when I had him so high in my original mocks and now he is climbing back up everyones boards!!). How about something with the GSW's again and B.Wright? Pity it's Nazzy you have on the block and not EO50. Me thinks they would jump at the chance to land him.

Wonder if something like EO50 would land us B.Wright, the #14 (Doc) and Al Harrington (expiring who has value and we would look to move).

Then we would still have the #9 to draft the BPA.

Wow, didn't see that one coming!

I'd really want to pick up Westbrook then, but now it's looking like he's in serious contention for 6th, 7th and 8th. But for argument's sake:

Felts/Westbrook
Swish/Hammer
Crash/Duds/Ammo
Harrington/BWright
Hibbert/Nazr

Draft Express has Harrington with a 2nd year player option so we'd have to treat that as 2 years. Still, he's not terrible...but the 4 would still be weak for now unless BWright really stepped it up.

We could always go with Randolph at 9th if he's available (or another PF type) and cover the backup with the 2nd.

Interesting. You should post that...it'd be different than all the Sheed/NY rips off your best players for crap threads that's been going on lately. Just remember the original team will have to make the picks and then complete the trade in July.

[dav7z]

Good to see you come over to the good side with me and Ziggy Spectre!! There is plenty of room on the Doc Hibbert band wagon for you my friend.

Hibbert is great (funny that people laughed at me when I had him so high in my original mocks and now he is climbing back up everyones boards!!). How about something with the GSW's again and B.Wright? Pity it's Nazzy you have on the block and not EO50. Me thinks they would jump at the chance to land him.

Wonder if something like EO50 would land us B.Wright, the #14 (Doc) and Al Harrington (expiring who has value and we would look to move).

Then we would still have the #9 to draft the BPA.


After reading a lot of the Golden State post on Realgm . They are real high on OK50 i think they take that deal in a second.
I've read where they looking to trade Harrington and all so read Wright is on the block for a defencive presence OK50 was even mitchened in that type of trade.
I think they would do Wright , Harrington and 14# for OK50 Slam , Spectra , how does that work money wize. It would have to be a sign and trade.
Good idea and post .

[spectre]

Only thing is we'd be sorely undermanned at the 4. Harrington's really a 3 so that'd put Crash right where he doesn't want to be, guarding the mobile PFs. If we thought BWright could contribute a lot and quick I'd be more for it. I almost think we'd have to burn the 9th on another PF, maybe even one who could help now vs. potential.

Dav I know some of them like Mek, but I wonder how well he'd pair with Biedrens as he really has no game outside of the box either.

[Slam]

Spectre I think that we would just have to hope that either McMay can stay healthy, Davidson improves, Wright improves or we just play Dude at the 4 until one of the other three is ready (I'm using the assumption that we can trade Al Harrington)

[dav7z]

Harrington and his nine milion per year makes that deal work. Hes not that bad and might could be traded . But it's just a two year gig.
May if healthy could handle the job . Really i prefer May. Whight showed a lot in the little playing time he got at Golden State.
If all else fails Dudley could do the job. Hes a do anything glue type anyway.

[Dead_Real]

Credit Slam for part of this but I'd LOVE to make this move he said send Okafor to the T-Wolves for the #3 pick Okafor/Big Al could be a dominate tandem for years to come on the West twin towers Version 2. At 3 we take OJ Mayo and with the 9th pick we fill the void of losing Okafor in DeAndre Jordan or trade down a few slots for Big Roy. With Mayo we wouldn't need Crash so we send Wallace to the Lakers for Lamar Odom this would be a very Portland like change that could put us in the top 5 of the East IMO.

Imagine this:
Felton
Mayo
Swish
Odom
DJ or Hibbert

[Slam]

Credit Slam for part of this but I'd LOVE to make this move he said send Okafor to the T-Wolves for the #3 pick Okafor/Big Al could be a dominate tandem for years to come on the West twin towers Version 2. At 3 we take OJ Mayo and with the 9th pick we fill the void of losing Okafor in DeAndre Jordan or trade down a few slots for Big Roy. With Mayo we wouldn't need Crash so we send Wallace to the Lakers for Lamar Odom this would be a very Portland like change that could put us in the top 5 of the East IMO.

Imagine this:
Felton
Mayo
Swish
Odom
DJ or Hibbert

If we did that the excitment would be too much and I would poop.

Like you said eaton, it would rival what the Blazers did when they raped the draft and walked away with LMA and Roy at the same time.

[fatlever]

ideas to trade down, land hibbert, pick up a pf or pg in the process and dump nazr. hmmm....

that will be tough considering most teams not named the bobcats would probably view nazr's talent vs his contract as dead even.

here's a few... i'm too lazy to look up the numbers though.

wizards trade blatch and 18 to bobcats for nazr and 9
magic trade battie, 22 and a future first to bobcats for nazr and 9
nets trade sean williams, trenton hassell and 21 to bobcats for nazr and 9
nets trade marcus williams, trenton hassell and 21 to bobcats for nazr and 9
nuggets send camby and 20 to bobcats for nazr, ammo and 9 - seems like the nuggets are looking to move camby's contract
nuggets send klieza, hunter (or atkins) and 20 to bobcats for nazr and 9
cavs send joe smith, 19 and a future first to bobcats for nazr and 9
jazz send ak47 and 23 to bobcats for nazr, ammo, may and 9 - jazz get to shed his max deal to hopefully retain boozer.

[spectre]

ideas to trade down, land hibbert, pick up a pf or pg in the process and dump nazr. hmmm....

that will be tough considering most teams not named the bobcats would probably view nazr's talent vs his contract as dead even.

here's a few... i'm too lazy to look up the numbers though.

wizards trade blatch and 18 to bobcats for nazr and 9
magic trade battie, 22 and a future first to bobcats for nazr and 9
nets trade sean williams, trenton hassell and 21 to bobcats for nazr and 9
nets trade marcus williams, trenton hassell and 21 to bobcats for nazr and 9
nuggets send camby and 20 to bobcats for nazr, ammo and 9 - seems like the nuggets are looking to move camby's contract
nuggets send klieza, hunter (or atkins) and 20 to bobcats for nazr and 9
cavs send joe smith, 19 and a future first to bobcats for nazr and 9
jazz send ak47 and 23 to bobcats for nazr, ammo, may and 9 - jazz get to shed his max deal to hopefully retain boozer.

Good stuff Fats!

I know you don't hang on the trade board much (or at least you don't post there...I think it takes a really bad one like that DET deal to bring you out!), but a CHI fan about a month ago did a trade thread for Nazr, and he stated (then listed) that there really isn't any C FAs available this year. Add to that Nazr having a "career" year with us his deal probably isn't looking THAT bad.

I'd almost definitely do the Blatche deal, but it still leaves us with having to get a backup PG in FA (not that this is a bad thing, but there aren't that many and they'll be snatched up quick).

Not fond of the Magic deal.

Nets...2nd one. We are getting close to losing the target however, as Hibbert is supposedly moving up.

Not crazy about either Denver trades. If we're going after Hibbert I think we'd be overloaded with similar skill sets at the 4/5.

I LIKE Joe Smith and would really think about that one.

Don't want any part of AK47's contract.

[chabber]

Credit Slam for part of this but I'd LOVE to make this move he said send Okafor to the T-Wolves for the #3 pick Okafor/Big Al could be a dominate tandem for years to come on the West twin towers Version 2. At 3 we take OJ Mayo and with the 9th pick we fill the void of losing Okafor in DeAndre Jordan or trade down a few slots for Big Roy. With Mayo we wouldn't need Crash so we send Wallace to the Lakers for Lamar Odom this would be a very Portland like change that could put us in the top 5 of the East IMO.

Imagine this:
Felton
Mayo
Swish
Odom
DJ or Hibbert


If we did that the excitment would be too much and I would poop.

Like you said eaton, it would rival what the Blazers did when they raped the draft and walked away with LMA and Roy at the same time.

Wow eaton, I'd love that. Picking up Mayo who can play at both ends plus Odom who I like a lot and another big who could potentially do what Mek does but cheaper. Where do I sign up?

I'm with spectre on those deals too. I really only like the one for Blatche but good work thinking those all up fats.

[ALong13]

if we move back and look center I want either Hibbert or Ajinca to be honest, I don't know how Brown likes Hibbert, but I've heard he really likes Ajinca...

[Slam]

jazz send ak47 and 23 to bobcats for nazr, ammo, may and 9 - jazz get to shed his max deal to hopefully retain boozer.

.......Fats falls to his knees and starts crying like a baby because that over rated Russian hack is finally on a team that Fats roots for.

[fatlever]

getting ak in that deal would be bitter sweet cause i'd be losing ammo. thats a tough one.

[kickazzz2000]

First time poster here, but long term lurker.

A thread in RGM mentions trading Okafor (and filler?) to Minn for 3 (Mayo) (and filler?) and using our pick for a big. How about doing that deal and trading down a few to grab Ajinca (if LB is so enamored with him).


Felton/FA
Mayo/Carroll
JRich/Dudley
Crash
Nazr/Ajinca


Crash is still moveable at this point, and im sure theres cap space opened up by this move...Could we then go ahead and try to sign Elton Brand or maybe move Crash for a Diaw or a Marion????

Or am I crazy?

[ziggy]

Welcome aboard Kickazzz, If I knew that there was no chance of resigning Mek, then I do it, otherwise I'd be scared to make the deal. It would leave us painfully thin on the front line.

[ohara831]

Welcome Kickazzz. Post away.

[qchoops]

Crash would have to be moved if Emeka was dealt, since he does not want to play the 4 anymore. Diaw would match nicely salary wise, though I am not sure Phoenix would want to add the extra year of contract at the end. Marion? I don't see that happening, as he is expecting a significant chunk more money for his next contract than Crash is making and more than I think the Bobcats would/could spend on him.

[dvdbumpus]

getting ak in that deal would be bitter sweet cause i'd be losing ammo. thats a tough one.

Bittersweet yes, but unless AMMO can play PF I wouldn't lose much sleep over it....

[ammofan]

No way i want AK47. I think he is a little overated and wouldn't help our team out as much as trading for Mayo.

[ziggy]

Its funny how "A few trade thoughts" wound up being 180+ posts and still going.:p

I'll take that AK47 deal in a heartbeat. I think Ammo is going to come back and surprise people, but I have no problems giing up May & Nazr.

[ammofan]

well I wouldn't mind giving up Sean or Nazr. And yes Morrison is going to change peoples minds about him next season ;)

[kickazzz2000]

Looks like Melo's agents are going to discuss a trade on Monday. Any packages we can put together?

[ohara831]

Denver will get a lot in return as teams will overbid once the bidding gets going. I am just afraid we'd have to give up too much.

[ziggy]

Via Twincities.com
http://www.twincities.com/ci_9660797?source=most_viewed


Timberwolves trade rumors abound, one of which involves a deal with Charlotte for the Wolves' No. 3 overall pick in Thursday's NBA draft for the Bobcats' No. 9 pick and 6-8 shooting guard Adam Morrison. The Wolves aren't commenting.

[Muttley]

Via Twincities.com
http://www.twincities.com/ci_9660797?source=most_viewed

Wow... So, we just give up Adam, and possible get Mayo? Adam could become something special someday, but this trade seems like a no-brainer to me.

[ohara831]

I can see them talking Crash, Ammo and #9 for #3, but not #9 and Ammo alone. That just seems insane. but then again, it is McHale in charge.

[ziggy]

I can see them talking Crash, Ammo and #9 for #3, but not #9 and Ammo alone. That just seems insane. but then again, it is McHale in charge.

I'm in the same boat... If they're crazy enough to do it, then I'll take them up on the deal, but I don't see it happening.

[mrtarheel]

Just read on hoopsworld that the Bucks are considering getting out of the first round altogether for an established player. They are giving up mo williams or charlie v and the #8 pick. If we could pull of the deal with Minn. and get Mayo maybe even put May in that deal and then give wallace to the bucks or lineup could maybe look like


felts / westbrook (with the eighth)
mayo (#3) / carroll
j rich / dudley
charlie v / davidson /
okafor / nazr / hollins

or if the heat take mayo

felts / westbrook (with the eighth)
j rich / caroll
wallace / dudley
beasley / may / davidson
okafor / nazr / hollins

Then fill in with role players on each team and we are the trailblazers of the east, except we make the playoffs.

[Slam]

IF this trade went down (Ammo and the #9 for the #3), and it's a huge "if" because I doubt the Wolves would go with it, I would be forced to take back everything I have ever said about drafting Ammo and it setting us back 3+ years.

If he could move us into the top three this year and land us Mayo or Beasley then he would have done a whole lot for this franchise.

I would poop, toot, cry and fall over all at once if we traded Ammo and the #9 for Beasley, Rose or Mayo

[kickazzz2000]

That link didnt work for me but the subsequent discussion has me very excited... Is the Minneapolis paper actually suggesting a rumor for Ammo and 9 for #3? WOWOWOWOWOW

never mind, I found it. it was buried down the page. I would do that deal in a Minnesota minute!

[ammofan]

Okay I gotta alot to say.

As most of you all know, I am a diehard Adam morrison fan.

First of all, I dont see why we would trade Morrison after 1 FAIR rookie campaign and a torn ACL. How do we know that Adam isn't gonna come back and be a huge scorer for us. He could end up living up to his expectations of being a "smaller Dirk Nowitzki" or even be a Larry Bird. And for a trade to be suggested of a guy who will be back practicing with the Cats summer league team after suffering an injury that is serious enough to end some players career, instead of big ol' Sean McMay who will not play nor practice with the summer league team that is ridiculous!
MJ has not given Morrison a chance here. He doesn't know how to be patient, obviously.
Now I do understand that OJ Mayo is a great player. He could be a SUPERSTAR in the NBA. I have said to friends and family that Mayo will be the best player that comes out of this draft all along. And I know that this also gives us a chance to draft Mike Beasley if Miami drafts Mayo. And I also really like M.B.
BUT AGAIN, Morrison has not been given a chance here. Who says that Adam's breakout season won't be next season. He could be an all star! None of us know what he will do but in conclusion::::
Adam Morrison shouldn't be traded for another rookie player.
Now if this does happen you guys will all know who I am at all the Bobcats games....I will be probably that only kid with a Timberwolves Adam Morrison jersey.


Now you guys can all tell me how stupid I am in the nicest way possible.

Thank You.

[TheLegend]

You know after reading what you said Amnofan... your right. Let's look back on some rookies. KG averaged 10.6 ppg in his rookie season and he's like the second best PF, Kobe Bryant averaged 7.6 ppg and now hes averaging like 30. I really think he'll improve.

[Keetch]

Ammofan:

We REALLY REALLY need you to get in touch with Kevin McHale before Thursday.....tell him all that stuff you put in your post....make him BELIEVE!!

Oh and yes, you are very brave!

[ohara831]

Ammofan: You make some very good points. But my belief is that Ammo's upside is nowhere near the upside of Beasley, Rose or Mayo. It is not a slight at Ammo to back this trade if it happened. It is more a statement that we are very excited about the potential of Beasley, Rose and Mayo. **And there are a lot of Morrison fans, so I bet you wouldn't be the only one with a Morrison Timberwolves jersey

[mrtarheel]

guaranteed we end up taking antoine walker in the deal which wouldn't be all that bad seeing that the bucks are willing to take an estabilished player for their pick and charlie v or mo williams. That gives a chance to get a pf young and cheap while rounding out or roster.

[dnbman]

guaranteed we end up taking antoine walker in the deal which wouldn't be all that bad seeing that the bucks are willing to take an estabilished player for their pick and charlie v or mo williams. That gives a chance to get a pf young and cheap while rounding out or roster.

Walker makes $10M. We'd have to send out another another $5M to make this work. I just don't think Walker has to be involved for it to make sense. Ockham's Razor.

[ammofan]

Well thanx to everyone for understanding what I am saying.

First to ohara: Yeah Morrison's upside is questioned by many right now but when he was coming off a huge college season as Mayo, Rose and Beasley have, people compared him to Larry Bird. People compare Beasley to Melo right now, but if he has a first season similar to Adam's then they will question Beasley's upside too. Remember, these guys are really young.....give them time.

Michael35: Yeah and Adam averaged almost 12! he could be better than Kobe and KG!

Keetch: I would love to talk to McHale. Haha. But I wont talk to him about Adam....I will give him tapes of me playing so that he will draft me years from now.
:)

mrtarheel: I dont think we make 2 deals. I just cant see it happening. I can see one or none.

[dnbman]

You know after reading what you said Amnofan... your right. Let's look back on some rookies. KG averaged 10.6 ppg in his rookie season and he's like the second best PF, Kobe Bryant averaged 7.6 ppg and now hes averaging like 30. I really think he'll improve.

You're talking about kids out of high school. Ammo was one of the best players in NCAA. You can't compare their rookie years. What were they doing in year three compared to Ammo's rookie year?

Ammfan, I think the problem with Ammo getting no love is that he had huge questions coming into the draft that seemed by many to be confirmed during the season: not athletic enough to be a dominant force in the NBA. Yes, he had some great scoring games, but those don't mean a lot if you're giving up the same amount of points on the other end.

I like Ammo and don't mind keeping him. However, there are more than the usual reasons to be pessimistic about him compared to other college stars that advance to the NBA.

Whether we keep him or not, I hope he has a good career, because he's at least interesting, if not a good guy.

[TheBeagle]

Okay I gotta alot to say.

As most of you all know, I am a diehard Adam morrison fan.

First of all, I dont see why we would trade Morrison after 1 FAIR rookie campaign and a torn ACL. How do we know that Adam isn't gonna come back and be a huge scorer for us. He could end up living up to his expectations of being a "smaller Dirk Nowitzki" or even be a Larry Bird. And for a trade to be suggested of a guy who will be back practicing with the Cats summer league team after suffering an injury that is serious enough to end some players career, instead of big ol' Sean McMay who will not play nor practice with the summer league team that is ridiculous!
MJ has not given Morrison a chance here. He doesn't know how to be patient, obviously.
Now I do understand that OJ Mayo is a great player. He could be a SUPERSTAR in the NBA. I have said to friends and family that Mayo will be the best player that comes out of this draft all along. And I know that this also gives us a chance to draft Mike Beasley if Miami drafts Mayo. And I also really like M.B.
BUT AGAIN, Morrison has not been given a chance here. Who says that Adam's breakout season won't be next season. He could be an all star! None of us know what he will do but in conclusion::::
Adam Morrison shouldn't be traded for another rookie player.
Now if this does happen you guys will all know who I am at all the Bobcats games....I will be probably that only kid with a Timberwolves Adam Morrison jersey.


Now you guys can all tell me how stupid I am in the nicest way possible.

Thank You. Not stupid at all, ammo. You love your Ammo as much as I love my Gerald, so I can definitely appreciate where you're coming from since most 'planet members can't get either of our guys out of here quick enough thus far during the offseason. Plus, the Cats can very much succeed with both guys on the roster, so it's not necessary, right now, to trade away either one.

I only have eyes for Russell, so all this Mayo mumbo jumbo means little to me. My prediction is that Russell may not be any better of an NBA player than Mayo, but there's little if any drop-off in talent between the two; one is more polished on O, the other on D; and since I love a tough defender, Russell's my guy. That said, if draft day chatter indicates that Russell is going to be gone before 9, then I'd have to try to make a deal to move up, whatever that would take.

[Keetch]

Dead on Beagle. If we move up I bet its to take Westbrook, not Mayo at all.

I don't agree with it, though. I'd go for the Mayo for his size and shooting ability. Mayo is Wesbrook only better; even tho in 3 (4?) years he's gonna want a max contract and move to NY or LA.

For all the positive imagery OJ's putting out now, I still don't believe its real. I'd still take him over Westbrook though. You've got to go for it.

[Chef]

I agree also. For Mayo absolutely not, for all of the reasons already listed. I expressed most of my thoughts on one of the draft threads about all of this sudden momentum to shed Crash for unproven talent. However, if we could get Beasley I would have to consider it. We are ok at 3. We could even stand to lose a potential 20-25 pt scorer (and absolutely horrid defender) to land a 3-4 combo guy who should average at least 15/8-10 by his second season. Plus, not rely solely on Mek as our 4. Beasley will open up the inside for Mek (which he needs in order to go through the slow progression of his 3 offensive moves) plus let him go one on one getting boards which he will win.

Ammo and #9 for Mayo, no way. Ammo and #9 for Beasley, I'd have to say yes.

[dnbman]

I agree also. For Mayo absolutely not, for all of the reasons already listed.


Ammo and #9 for Mayo, no way. Ammo and #9 for Beasley, I'd have to say yes.

What were the reasons listed above? Most people seemed to like it, just favored another pick rather than Mayo. (if they didn't want Mayo.)

You really wouldn't trade Ammo and 9 for Mayo?

[Chef]

not if westbrook is on the board. i think mayo has all kinds of character issues. I 100% agree that he is absolutely gone in 3-4 years (if he is putting up numbers). The guy is all about himself. I don't think he is worth the trade if Westbrook is still available. If none of the top bunch of guards are available at #9 then I think the trade is a good one.

[Slam]

We could even stand to lose a potential 20-25 pt scorer

Do you mean that Ammo is a potential 20-25pt scorer?

[Chef]

i do. i think he will be a player alot like dunleavy. except even worse on defense.

[dav7z]

Just thought i would get you guys thoughts on this.
Out = Wallace
In = Filler contracts ,second pick Beasley
Thoughts

[spectre]

Just thought i would get you guys thoughts on this.
Out = Wallace
In = Filler contracts ,second pick Beasley
Thoughts

And we keep the 9th?

100 times out of 100.

[dav7z]

I was thinking basicly Wallace for Beasley . We might have to eat a couple fillers to get the money to work.

Then if Westbrook was around at nine. If not take Lopez and trade him for a nice two?
Or Just renounce OK50 and go after a nice free agent.

[kickazzz2000]

I was thinking basicly Wallace for Beasley . We might have to eat a couple fillers to get the money to work.

Then if Westbrook was around at nine. If not take Lopez and trade him for a nice two?
Or Just renounce OK50 and go after a nice free agent.


A nice two meaning who? OJ?

[ammofan]

Hey Just to let everyone know that their are 2 more rumors to report today.

Again, Morrison rumors float around, but today on other sites. RealGM is reporting that the T-Wolves declined to comment again on the trade today. If I had to place a bet on whether or not Adam will stay, I would bet againest him staying.
Gosh, I feel really sad/mad about all this.

The other rumors was also on RealGM but the source is the Charlotte Observer. They say that we want Roy Hibbert and we may trade and get an extra mid-late 1st round pick.

[ohara831]

It would seem to me that if the Ammo trade rumor had no substance at all, Minn. would have been stated so. Therefore, if they just refuse to comment again, I think it may actually have some validity.

[ohara831]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53144/20080623/are_wolves_and_bobcats_discussing_morrison_swap/

In the word of The Beattles - "Let it be."

[spectre]

FWIW:


Rumors flying from LG and CL that an "insider" has heard that there is serious talks between the Lakers and Charlotte for a Odom/Wallace swap (with other filler of course). Larry Brown loves vets and LO and he fills a need. Not saying its a sure thing but I think a Odom/Vlad for Wallace/Nazr deal makes sense for both teams. Cats get the player they want and dump contracts and Lakers do the same.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=798787&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=195

[jstar5]

I read this forum often but this is my first time posting.

I was thinking about the Minnesota rumors and had a 3 way trade idea, I'm not sure if all the salaries work though.

Minnesota would get: #9, Ammo, Shawn Marion

Heat would get: #3 (O.J.), Mek (re-sign him at 12 mil)

Bobs would get: #2 (Beasley), Mark Blount (salary purposes), and either Corey Brewer or Randy Foye whichever Minny would want to give up

The Heat would probably want another player in the deal and I couldn't really think of a good solution there but I'm sure something could be worked out.

I've also been reading where the Hawks don't want to go above $11 mil per for Josh Smith, I'd love it if we could do a sign and trade giving the Hawks Crash, even if it meant overpaying Smith slightly. He was impressive in the playoffs with his D on KG. I like it even if we have to overpay him a bit.

I know its crazy and would likely never happen but our roster would be sick and we'd be one of the most athletic teams in the league.

Nazr
Beasley
Smith
J-Rich
Felton

[ziggy]

Welcome to BobcatsPlanet Jstar5.
I would hate to give up Mek, but thats a damned wicked lineup!

[ohara831]

Welcome Jstar5. That does give us a pretty great starting 5. But I think there may be too many players in that to make it all work for everyone. I think that works pretty well for Charlotte, but it does leave us a bit weak on Defense.

[Dead_Real]

FWIW:



http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=798787&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=195
I think there is a high chance this deal will happen I remember reading how Larry Brown was really high on Odom a while back.

[jstar5]

Yeah, there's a lot going on there and losing Mek and Crash would hurt the D. I think overall the team would be great on the boards and hopefully w/ LB's tutelage, sufficient on D as well.

I really hope the Odom deal doesn't work out. The guy definitely has skills and he's a helluva rebounder but I think he's shown time and time again that the mental toughness isn't there

[Dead_Real]

Love that deal jstar5 I'd love to try to get Sebastian Telfair as a player filler from the T-Wolves to add some point guard depth to our squad. As for Odom I don't know if he has a questionable heart but maybe just maybe he'd benefit playing for a smaller market he's exactly the type of 4 I want though the main reason I'm so high on Randolph.

[jstar5]

I could see Odom benefiting from a smaller market. And one thing about Odom's game is he would automatically be our second best ball handler (assuming Knight doesn't come back). Having him on the floor could open up some scoring opportunities for Felton as well.

I know it's really a long shot but I would love to see Josh Smith in a bobs uni

[kickazzz2000]

It's been a long day at work and I may be completely dreaming here but if the Morrison +9 rumor does prove to be true, is there any way charlotte could also make a play for the #2 pick (without giving up Okafor?)


Riles doesnt seem to interested in Beasley and Minny isn't enamored with Mayo.

Wallace, May, and next year #1 unprotected for #2 and contracts?

[dav7z]

With Marions contract up and the Heat wanting in the L James race i could see somthing like that working. Them dumping about eleven milion in contracts on us to pick up one very favorable contract and another one on the cheap and expiring . And a unprotected first next year.
But we better be damn sure Beasley is our man if we invest that much?

[kickazzz2000]

Well, we'd kind of commit ourselves to it regardless IF we did the deal for #3. In that case we would either have to move Wallace or Richardson, and of the two, Wallace has the better contract. May shouldn't count for anything as an investment really. The only real risk here is the unprotected first next year.
Although, I'm assuming that with Larry Brown coaching and a lineup of:

Felton
Mayo
Richardson
Beasley
Okafor

It wont really matter if the pick is lottery protected or not. I see that squad squeaking out 7 or 8 in the East and REALLY making noise in year two and three.

Of course, this scenario precludes the Cats from the inevitable drafting of Tyler Hansbrough in 2009.

[Chef]

i would definitely protect the pick. of the 8 east teams that made the playoffs + the inevitable Bulls improvement, I don't know who we would leap (for sure) to make the playoffs. Boston, Cavs, Toronto, Wiz, Pistons, Magic are for sures. 6ers probably, Atlanta probably not. There is a very real chance we are lottery bound next year too (hope not of course). Knowing our luck, that would be the year we would luck out and get #1 or #2.

found this after posting:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3459696

guess who is not on list for trades. plus, if minny does the deal, forget #3 too.

[x2pacalypse]

if miami doesn't want beasley can't we just do the am00/9th pick trade to minny for 3rd pick which would be beasley?

felton
jrich
crash
beasley
okafor

[Chef]

because the wolves would love to have beasley.

[amour217]

From RealGM:


Charlotte appears to be closing in on a trade with Memphis involving pick 5, with their potential target being either Kevin Love or Russell Westbrook, the New York Post is reporting.

Source: http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53195/20080626/charlotte_closing_in_on_trade_with_memphis/