Careful what we wish for

[ohara831]

Notice how that we have kicked ass since getting rid of McInnis? Sure, we all have noticed and we are thrilled with the improvement of Carroll and Dudley especiallly. But careful what you wish for.

We take on the Warriors tonight after we both had games last night. We both won rather easily. But we are at home and playing well. I think J-Rich really wants to let them have it tonigh and light them up for 30. If we win our 3rd in a row and start to sneak back into the Playoff picture and at least finish the season strong, you can bet your bottom dollar that Vincent is going to be back next year. MJ will see the team cohesion and better play as a sign the team is buying into the Coach. It will allow him to save face and give his guy another chance. After all, we only signed him to a 2 yr Contract. If we end strongly, he can let Sam coach the 2nd yr and try to push us over the top or just not renew his Contract at the end of next season. I think we all know that will happen if we end strongly.

Be careful what you wish for.

[spectre]

I guess it could go that way, but I saw releasing McInnis as more of management figuring they had no choice if they wanted Felton to play solely at point. If that's the case I can't imagine that sitting well.

Same squad, why did it take Vincent 50 some odd games to figure it out? Management had Felton slated as the primary point at the beginning of the year, and I'll just bet management forsaw Nazr getting starter's minutes after they traded for his retail contract.

I think management is just treading water until the end of the season. That's my hope anyway.

[ohara831]

You might be right. But you and I have had that discussion regarding mgmnt and Coach and McInnis. I'm in the minority who think mgmnt was in sync with Sam on his lineup. Guess we'll never know unless MJ tells us.

Honestly, if we start winning and Dudley continues to improve
(I am real happy with his game the last few game!) then Sam likely comes back. I would really hate to see us miss out on someone like Carlisle if he is available and willing to be our Coach. He will likely be back on the bench for someone next season. He is too good to not be a Head Coach somewhere in the NBA.

[dav7z]

Management has had to have a talk with Vincent. This rotation is what we all wanted from day one. Felton with three 10 assist games in a row after the release of Mcinnis is hudge. The keys have been given to Felton and Vincent has to decide if he wants to go along for the ride.
Players are playing up to expections post Mcinnis.[ Dudlry, Carroll, ] Rich OK and Nazr seam to have more chemristy now.
Felton is this key a to better team. The players and coaches have to see it. Vincent will coach next year if he continues to allow the team to play lose and have good chemristy.

Side note what do you guys think about just playing Wallace as say sixth man the remainder of the season. Amd limit him to about 20 mins per game. Just for health reasons. I just worrie about him hiting his head again.And being ruined for life????????

[bizzlecatz]

If Crash is cleared to go,he's going to want to play. I say move him to SF, and go with a lineup of:

Felts
JSwish
Crash
Dude
Mek

[dav7z]

If Crash is cleared to go,he's going to want to play. I say move him to SF, and go with a lineup of:

Felts
JSwish
Crash
Dude
Mek



Thats the line up thet makes the most sence. That or Nazr or NOT Carroll because i don't want Wallace playing the four.
But im still continding for the long term health of WALLACE he need to be limited the rest of the season. Im sure Wallace would want to play 48 mins a game. But for the Bobcats and Wallace i hope he plays limted time or just takes the rest of the season off. If he hits his head again it could mess him up for life.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

I kind of worry about Dudley at the 4. He's smaller then Wallace I think. He's able to play it but I'm worried about an injury. Really, is he any better suited for the 4 then Wallace?

[MattD]

I kind of worry about Dudley at the 4. He's smaller then Wallace I think. He's able to play it but I'm worried about an injury. Really, is he any better suited for the 4 then Wallace?


I think so... hes sort of like an undersized sheed. He needs to work on his rebounding for that to really work though.

[dav7z]

Dudley is the same height but has a wider frame and has about 15 pounds on Wallace . Boxes out better than Wallace but don't have his hops.

You can check out the team and thair sizes hear

http://www.nba.com/bobcats/player_profiles.html

[Muttley]

The Dude looks a lot thicker than Crash. For all Gerald's muscle and athleticism, the Dude has a leg up at playing the 4 because of (as you said Dav) his wider frame. I think he'll be fine at the 4 spot.

I am fully willing to rescind this comment the moment that (if, please not, knock on wood, sign of the cross, all that etc.) Jared gets his first concussion.

[x2pacalypse]

being hit by the sharp end of the elbow of mikki moore, a 7ft 100 pound jagged bone structure, is going to give you a concussion no matter how big you are

i think there is too much worry because of the concussion now, that was a freak accident, and it would have happened to anybody in that position, however i do agree that an undersized person will be injured more, but not concussions, more of a rolled/sprained ankle kind of thing due to getting stepped on

[Muttley]

being hit by the sharp end of the elbow of mikki moore, a 7ft 100 pound jagged bone structure, is going to give you a concussion no matter how big you are

i think there is too much worry because of the concussion now, that was a freak accident, and it would have happened to anybody in that position, however i do agree that an undersized person will be injured more, but not concussions, more of a rolled/sprained ankle kind of thing due to getting stepped on


Well, my concern is not the one concussion. It's the 4 concussions. A concussion f's up brain chemistry severely and enough of them can lead to dementia.

I can't help but believe that has something to do with how crash plays, combined with the size of the guys he is typically and consistently matched up against.

You're right, the Mikki Moore elbow could have happened to Gerald even if he wasn't guarding the 4. He could have just been helping and gotten an elbow to the head. But, when you're constantly matching a guy up against those outside of his weight class, you're going to see him get injured. This is only a wake-up call. We should be playing him at the 3, especially because of how he plays all-out.

[dnbman]

Notice how that we have kicked ass since getting rid of McInnis? Sure, we all have noticed and we are thrilled with the improvement of Carroll and Dudley especiallly. But careful what you wish for.

We take on the Warriors tonight after we both had games last night. We both won rather easily. But we are at home and playing well. I think J-Rich really wants to let them have it tonigh and light them up for 30. If we win our 3rd in a row and start to sneak back into the Playoff picture and at least finish the season strong, you can bet your bottom dollar that Vincent is going to be back next year. MJ will see the team cohesion and better play as a sign the team is buying into the Coach. It will allow him to save face and give his guy another chance. After all, we only signed him to a 2 yr Contract. If we end strongly, he can let Sam coach the 2nd yr and try to push us over the top or just not renew his Contract at the end of next season. I think we all know that will happen if we end strongly.

Be careful what you wish for.


:g:

Well, my thinking is that if this team gets us to the playoffs with the record we have now, there will have to be some hint of good coaching going on. What I'm saying is, Vincent can prove himself, just like Felton, by making us win.

If we win, we might be happy to keep Vincent. As a coach, he's a rookie and learning also. It's not like Vincent will NEVER be a good coach. He has just looked horrific up until now.

[mrtarheel]

why not just let the starting lineups go like this

felton
j rich
crash( when he returns)
davidson
okafor

this would allow or backups of boykins, carroll, dudes, nazr, and hollins to come in and have inside and outside capabilities.

[dav7z]

Drew welcome to Bobcatsplanet , Have fun and post away.
Davidson size wise is the best choice to play the P/F but i kinda think Nazr and Dudley have a higher basketball IQ right now and are better suited at the P/F slot . I do agree Davidson should get time in that position as i think he will be able to play in this league for a long time.

[TheBeagle]

:g:

Well, my thinking is that if this team gets us to the playoffs with the record we have now, there will have to be some hint of good coaching going on. What I'm saying is, Vincent can prove himself, just like Felton, by making us win.

If we win, we might be happy to keep Vincent. As a coach, he's a rookie and learning also. It's not like Vincent will NEVER be a good coach. He has just looked horrific up until now.
That's where I stand on the issue also. If these Cats get into the playoffs, then something is obviously right with the team, so we won't necessarily need a new coach, nor a high draft pick.

As I've stated on the "Fire Sam Vincent" thread (I think it's that one), it's pretty much set in stone he's finishing out the year regardless. ST renewals and the way the team responds to him over the finish of the season will decide if he is let go during the offseason.

[timang]

we just killed the warrior's w/ jswish's 42 :biggrin:

[ohara831]

I think thatduring last night's game against G.S., through my computer, I heard the faint chorus of voices chanting "We love Sam, we love Sam, we love Sam". I could only figure that it was some of the BobcatsPlanet faithful in attendance showing their love and support for our beloved commander-in-chief. My oh my, how winning can change our hearts! Heck, I'm even warming to the idea that Raymond can actually handle the PG position on a full time basis.

[dav7z]

I think thatduring last night's game against G.S., through my computer, I heard the faint chorus of voices chanting "We love Sam, we love Sam, we love Sam". I could only figure that it was some of the BobcatsPlanet faithful in attendance showing their love and support for our beloved commander-in-chief. My oh my, how winning can change our hearts! Heck, I'm even warming to the idea that Raymond can actually handle the PG position on a full time basis.




Agreed time will tell and thats all we wanted to begain with.
We still need to address a p/f and a point in the draft and free agency. I kinda like the midget. But would rather have a young bgun to push Felton and its no way we take a chance on not having a quility P/F NEXT YEAR.
As for coaching if he sneaks into the play offs , hes just a rookie two. We about have to give him one more year.
Looks at the greats Dean Smith, Coach K. the list goes on . Both of those two was all most fired thair first year.
So i think reaching that play off status depends on his job.

We have to try to catch the Nets who has 26 wins now.To get into the eight spot. So we out five games with 22 games left . The Nets have lost thair last two so it could be done.

Sorry we even closer The NETS lost last night and we won so we have 22 wins and just four games out.

[Dead_Real]

Interesting question...IF we make the playoffs will Vincent be the "Fabio of these boards" this year? meaning will we all change our perception on him? I honestly don't think I will we should still try to move him to the assistant spot (let him learn and grow as a coach) and bring in a veteran this offseason.

[spectre]

Interesting question...IF we make the playoffs will Vincent be the "Fabio of these boards" this year? meaning will we all change our perception on him? I honestly don't think I will we should still try to move him to the assistant spot (let him learn and grow as a coach) and bring in a veteran this offseason.


Oh hell no. If we make the playoffs it'll be in spite of Vincent...not because of him.

[TheBeagle]

Interesting question...IF we make the playoffs will Vincent be the "Fabio of these boards" this year? meaning will we all change our perception on him? I honestly don't think I will we should still try to move him to the assistant spot (let him learn and grow as a coach) and bring in a veteran this offseason.


Oh hell no. If we make the playoffs it'll be in spite of Vincent...not because of him.
This too is true to some degree. We're looking up in the standings because of "coach." If we make the playoffs, it'll be our players carrying "coach," but hopefully he will learn some things on the journey....

[dav7z]

Coach must all ready be starting to learn some some things . He stated in a J.Rich artical today he has decided to listen to J Rich and the other players more . Just giving some of the players some input will do wonders for team chemristy. It use to be his way or the highway NBA players don't respond to that.

[Muttley]

Coach must all ready be starting to learn some some things . He stated in a J.Rich artical today he has decided to listen to J Rich and the other players more . Just giving some of the players some input will do wonders for team chemristy. It use to be his way or the highway NBA players don't respond to that.


True Dav, true. I still think he's a little far away from being a good head coach. I doubt that we'd move him to asst. coach for one year, though.

[dnbman]

Interesting question...IF we make the playoffs will Vincent be the "Fabio of these boards" this year? meaning will we all change our perception on him? I honestly don't think I will we should still try to move him to the assistant spot (let him learn and grow as a coach) and bring in a veteran this offseason.


Oh hell no. If we make the playoffs it'll be in spite of Vincent...not because of him.


The only reason I disagree is because I'm assuming Vincent is learning. It's not out of the realm of imagination that he learns some things along the season and becomes a great coach. If that happens, wonderful. If we make the playoffs, I believe he will deserve some credit, even if the bulk of the achievement rest on the players' shoulders.

[ziggy]

Oh hell no. If we make the playoffs it'll be in spite of Vincent...not because of him.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Slam]

It's fair to expect some growing pains when introducing a new coach into a fairly close locker room - especially when they guy he is replacing was loved by the players and is still involved with the team.

It's also fair to expect a new coach, espcially a rookie coach in the NBA to make some mistakes.

But Vincent has made some stupid, unexplainable, idiotic and down right offensive mistakes that no one with any common sense would make.

I mean, attacking his players, ESPECIALLY his two star players through the media?

How disrepectful is that?

[Muttley]

It's fair to expect some growing pains when introducing a new coach into a fairly close locker room - especially when they guy he is replacing was loved by the players and is still involved with the team.

It's also fair to expect a new coach, espcially a rookie coach in the NBA to make some mistakes.

But Vincent has made some stupid, unexplainable, idiotic and down right offensive mistakes that no one with any common sense would make.

I mean, attacking his players, ESPECIALLY his two star players through the media?

How disrepectful is that?


That's the exact aspect of Vincent's tenure that I keep coming back to. There's mistakes, and there's f'ups.

I still feel like Vincent's an f'up.

[dav7z]

Im not saying keep Vincent at all . But i bet if this team makes the play offs Vincent gets another year. Management or he has made a very smart move in listning to his players . Should have been done from day one but i think he thought he knowed it all.Different people, personailitys, attitudes all have to be handled different ways . That is a big part of coaching.

[davcbow]

A good coach not only has to know the game, he has to know his personnel and know their abilities and know how to use their abilities properly. He also has to know personalities and how to talk to each player in order to motovate them. A good coach dont go to the media and condem his players or blame his players for losses he caused. Right now I still say "Fine Ham Biscuit" but depending on the rest of our season and how well or how bad we do it could change to "Keep Sam Vincent". :g: