ESPN Daily Dime...Vincent out and Brown In?

[spectre]

Sidebar...#10 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-080329-30)

The New York Daily News reported this week that the Memphis Grizzlies want Sixers consultant Larry Brown -- who's better known, of course, as the last Knicks coach before Isiah Thomas -- to replace first-year man Marc Iavaroni at season's end.

It's the first mention of a possible return to the bench for Brown in a while … which Grizz general manager Chris Wallace immediately shot down. But there are some growing rumblings on the coaching grapevine that Charlotte will surface as a realistic option for Brown.

Bobcats president Michael Jordan would surely prefer not to fire Sam Vincent after just one season. Yet one plugged-in source describes it as an inevitability, with any hit that Jordan might take for the growing perception that the former teammate he hired can't reach Charlotte's players sure to be softened if he can convince a coach of Brown's stature to take over.

That scenario would be reminiscent of Jordan's tenure in Washington, when the first coach MJ selected -- Leonard Hamilton -- lasted only one season before being replaced by a proven NBA commodity in Doug Collins.

I'd argue, furthermore, that Brown is unlikely to come across a more appetizing option than Charlotte, even if the Grizz were interested. Brown has made it clear that he doesn't want his 23-59 nightmare as the Knicks' coach to be his last big job and the Bobcats would have to appeal to the 67-year-old given his North Carolina ties, Jordan's decent collection of talent to work with and the Bobs' overwhelming need for someone who can teach them how to win.

All that would set Brown up perfectly in the East for the sort of instant improvement he triggered at pretty much every NBA stop he's made except with his hometown Knicks.

:funkybanana:

Personally I would freaking love this move. Brown could come in for 2-3 seasons and re-teach these guys the fundamentals and (like the article said) how to win. I'd pick up an "up and comer" as the lead assistant and groom him to take over.

I want to see many more of these type articles; it should be an inevitability and not a question.

[Muttley]

Yeah, dude, Brown's such an upgrade over the current situation. I like your full plan too. Brown won't last for ever here (one way or another), but in 2 years he can make a huge difference for the winning mentality for these guys.

MJ make it (or something similar) happen!

[Keetch]

Good catch Spectre and man at this point that would be so sweet. But I'll believe it when I see it. :P

Imagine what this team could do with a real coach.

[ammofan]

Yeah I would take larry Brown!

[ohara831]

I like Brown for the Cats also. But, knowing Brown, that gig would last maybe 2 yrs tops. Do you think that is in our best interest? It might be, to get us over the hump. But, I also think hiring someone like Rick Carlisle might be smarter, if we could get him. I see him as someone whom, if he gets us into the Playoffs, might be a long term guy, 10 yrs +. Stability after success if key, otherwise, the following yrs may not be so successful.

Just something to ponder.

[spectre]

I doubt I would have any problem with Carlisle Ohara, tho I haven't really studied his style of coaching so much (reminder...need to chk out his history). No doubt he'd be a HUGE upgrade for what we've had up to this point.

One of the things I like about bringing in Brown is his vast experience, which would command respect from this roster. I think Vincent has really hurt our guys in that regard...they probably question his actual BB intelligence (I know I do). Getting that back IMO has to be a high priority.

I think they'd emrbace what he brings and bust their butts for him, especially after falling short of a reachable goal in making the playoffs this year. He in return would teach them how to make that goal come true as he also has a playbook with more than 3 plays.

[ohara831]

Very well put Spectre. I agree wholeheartedly.

[spectre]

Yeah, dude, Brown's such an upgrade over the current situation. I like your full plan too. Brown won't last for ever here (one way or another), but in 2 years he can make a huge difference for the winning mentality for these guys.

MJ make it (or something similar) happen!


Brown's 67 and his health has deteriorated somewhat...didn't he have hip replacement surgery when coaching the Knicks? I think 3 years would be the very most we could expect out of him, and that's the perfect scenario to groom his successor.

Vincent should have been that lead assistant last year in this same scenario, but I think it's too far gone for that to happen now.

[TheLegend]

They already had a rumor of the Bobcats having Brown for there coach

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Larry-Brown-Vince-Carter-to-Bobcats-?urn=nba,25235

Even if its old it would still be nice to have them both on our team

[Chef]

it offers mj the perfect opp to save face. get brown in knowing it is most likely short term, tell FHB he will be moved down to 1st assistant. FHB knows he doesn't have any better option. at best he will be an assistant to some other team, but he would probably stay knowing he will be taking back over after at most 3 years. for what it is worth, lately he has been much better with rotations and keeping the players tuned into the game. with a little more time as an understudy, i think he could be pretty good coach. plus, brown would make a much better teacher than avery. avery is a my way or else type of coach, which doesn't always work that well (and never long term), FHB could learn alot from a coach like brown.

[MattD]

Brown's 67 and his health has deteriorated somewhat...didn't he have hip replacement surgery when coaching the Knicks? I think 3 years would be the very most we could expect out of him, and that's the perfect scenario to groom his successor.

Vincent should have been that lead assistant last year in this same scenario, but I think it's too far gone for that to happen now.


No that was Riley. Anyways Larry Brown could come in, teach us how to win, get coach of the year award, and retire from coaching after getting us into the playoffs a couple times. If we dont resign mek and pick up say Antawn and someone else to help with our interior void we could be a nice little team that could get into the second round or maybe a little further with some good coaching and a jrich takeover.

Sounds nice, but remember, the grass is always greener...

[GWIII]

Brown didn't have hip replacement, but he did have a serious bladder problem for which he had to have surgery....

The way Brown went out of New York does make me nervous about bringing him in. He really doesn't like young players all that much, doesn't do anything to develop them. The teams are successful, but they end up hating him by the end. Is it worth it? I guess after 4 losing seasons, it just might be....

[spectre]

Brown did have hip replacement surgery, but it was the year before he joined the Knicks...back at the end of 2004.

Point is, he's OLD!

IMO it'd be a lot different from NY. One, we're talking MJ (who Brown worships) vs. Isiah (one of MJ's biggest rivals). Two, Brown is probably desperate to reverse that last huge hit to his legacy so it will mean a lot to him personally if he were able to take this team to respectability.

Third...he monkeys up here Dean Smith would kick his ass (or disown him, which would probably be worse).

I've seen the stories about Brown doesn't play young guys and I assume that comes a lot from the Darko saga. Yet he's also considered one of the best teachers of the game. Kind of a contradiction isn't it? At any rate, our main guys are all going to be into their 4th year or more; tho we are still relatively young we aren't pups anymore.

[Keetch]

The rumor builds....now to the Fanhouse...nothing new...just a rewrite of the original rumor...

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/03/29/guillotine-watch-sam-vincent/

[tamburello]

Brown usually coached good rosters (except Sixers with AI). But you saw what he did in NY. We will surely be better, but he's not suitable for young players. Not only Darko, but also remember Mehmet Okur. At that times, in Turkey we were complaining about Brown because of his lack of interest in playing Memo while he was in wonderful shape. Memo flew to Utah and he became an All-Star. Remember his rosters when he was successful. Remember Detroit's squad (2 Wallaces, Billups, Williamson), remember Sixers' squad (Mckie, Mutombo, Hill, Geiger), remember Indiana's squad in mid-90's (Miller, McKey, Scott). Believe me, if he had been here for this season, he would have played Dudley even less than Vincent. He would trade Dudley, Davidson, and maybe Felton for experienced options. Because he wouldn't be interested in club's future. He could sacrifice the future of the club for one playoff berth. He would be only interested in saving the day and growing his fortune.

Brown is definitely a short term solution, because of his relations with players and also his age.

I DON'T WANT LARRY BROWN. NEVER. I PREFER VINCENT TO HIM.

[ziggy]

Brown's age is a huge concern for me. But honestly I'd take a 92 year old somewhat crazy Larry Brown wearing Depends and using a walker over Ham Biscuit.

If they bring him in, do you see them also bringing in someone that they can groom as his replacement in 2 to 3 years?

[TarHeelMan]

This thing must be picking up steam; I was listening to Fox Sports earlier, and they had an NBA guy on there who was discussing the Dallas Mavericks possibly cutting ties with Avery Johnson if they miss the playoffs. He said that Larry Brown would definitely be interested in coaching the Mavs, and that his name is already tied to two franchises where the coach is definitely going to be out this season, being Memphis and Charlotte. Interesting.

[Dead_Real]

Brown's age is a huge concern for me. But honestly I'd take a 92 year old somewhat crazy Larry Brown wearing Depends and using a walker over Ham Biscuit.

If they bring him in, do you see them also bringing in someone that they can groom as his replacement in 2 to 3 years?

See that's the thing some people might call me crazy but why not just move Vincent to that spot he could only get better learning under a Hall of Fame coach like Brown for a couple of years right? :-\

[amour217]

Brown usually coached good rosters (except Sixers with AI). But you saw what he did in NY. We will surely be better, but he's not suitable for young players. Not only Darko, but also remember Mehmet Okur. At that times, in Turkey we were complaining about Brown because of his lack of interest in playing Memo while he was in wonderful shape. Memo flew to Utah and he became an All-Star. Remember his rosters when he was successful. Remember Detroit's squad (2 Wallaces, Billups, Williamson), remember Sixers' squad (Mckie, Mutombo, Hill, Geiger), remember Indiana's squad in mid-90's (Miller, McKey, Scott). Believe me, if he had been here for this season, he would have played Dudley even less than Vincent. He would trade Dudley, Davidson, and maybe Felton for experienced options. Because he wouldn't be interested in club's future. He could sacrifice the future of the club for one playoff berth. He would be only interested in saving the day and growing his fortune.

Brown is definitely a short term solution, because of his relations with players and also his age.

I DON'T WANT LARRY BROWN. NEVER. I PREFER VINCENT TO HIM.


I thought up the same thing when I originally clicked on this thread: like it or not, we're still a young team...and Larry Brown has shown a history of letting youngsters rot on the bench, almost ignoring them. If he came here, who's to say he won't demand the team aquire more experienced, older players? And Larry Brown is a fantastic head coach, don't get me wrong, but we need someone who fits the style and makeup of our team: someone who will develop, teach, and strategize.

[Slam]

Brown could come in for 2-3 seasons and re-teach these guys the fundamentals and (like the article said) how to win. I'd pick up an "up and comer" as the lead assistant and groom him to take over.

-----------------------------

Derek Anderson?

I'm not a huge fan of Brown, but to be honest I didn't really follow him until the Knicks disaster. Didn't he screw the Pistons over to join the Knicks? Didn't he go with a whole lot of line up changes in New York constantly messing with the rotations?

I do remember him speaking very highly of Felts after one game at MSG though.

I guess he would be an improvement on Vincent, but it sort of feels like we would be making a deal with the Devil just to get rid of Vincent.

Know what I mean?

[spectre]

I guess he would be an improvement on Vincent, but it sort of feels like we would be making a deal with the Devil just to get rid of Vincent.

Know what I mean?

And some of us are pretty close to that point. 8)

There was a thread on RealGM...I think the Gen'l Board but I'm not sure...that was all about Brown's past. I went thru 20 pages and couldn't find it so gave up. Some of the things I did pick up were that all of his teams became top 10 in defense shortly after he took over, and it seemed he always improved the team in the W/L column (probably what did in Darko and Okur).

Again tho...like with Carlyle I need to do a refresher before I can discuss all the pros and cons. I will say the NYK fiasco shouldn't be considered IMO; with Isiah running things it was destined to fail. The next two seasons after his departure should prove that if nothing else.

We're only talking 2 years, 3 max. He will want to leave a good taste in everyone's mouth and there's no way in hell he'd cross MJ. If he gets us on the right track who cares if he breaks a few eggs. Duds has to go? Felts? If we get better...do it. Something tells me he'd like Duds' "doing all the little things" and Felts' team first/warrior attitude, but what we all want is for this team to grow and get better. IMO Brown would do that.

BTW...I can think of a lot worse choices than DA Slam.

[Slam]

I will say the NYK fiasco shouldn't be considered IMO; with Isiah running things it was destined to fail.
-----------------------

Some might say the same about Jordan!!

[Muttley]

BTW...I can think of a lot worse choices than DA Slam.


Slam, Spectre, I was thinking the exact same thing.

[Slam]

Would have been nice to start the process this year muttley. We haven't got much out of DA this year with his bunged up knees so why not make him a part of the coaching team and free that roster space up?

I was pushing Del Harris as our head coach last summer with DA and Vincent as our assistants for 2 years with who ever proved to be better out of DA and Vincent taking over from Del year 3.

Sucsession management.

[Muttley]

That all makes sense to me.

Alternatively, we could put DA in as Head Coach now and watch him flounder with inexperience just like we've seen from Sam. Let's hope we don't make the same mistake twice.

We must have known that DA wasn't going to be a make-or-break guy this year. We easily could've rolled the dice on a D-Leaguer, but we brought DA back for his knowledge of the game and locker room presence. I assume that it's in management plans to give him a shot to spend the ENTIRE season on the bench in a suit without taking up a roster spot.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

I will admit that DA still looks good when he plays...

[timang]

DA for assistant coach! (not really related to the thread, hehe)

[Muttley]

DA for assistant coach! (not really related to the thread, hehe)


... totally related! ha!

[spectre]

I will say the NYK fiasco shouldn't be considered IMO; with Isiah running things it was destined to fail.
-----------------------

Some might say the same about Jordan!!


I know you have to be joking...but for the record:

Toronto Raptors - After retiring Thomas became part owner and Executive Vice President for the expansion Toronto Raptors in 1994. In 1998, he left the organization after a dispute with new management which resulted from accusations that he gave NCAA basketball players tickets and other merchandise and inappropriate conduct with team staff.

CBA - Thomas became the owner of the Continental Basketball Association (CBA) from 1998 to 2000. After his purchase of the CBA for $5M, the league was forced into bankruptcy and folded, after Thomas rejected an offer from the NBA for $11M to make it an official minor league of the NBA.[1] Many CBA managers blamed Thomas for the league's failure, citing mismanagement and out-of-control spending on his part. Many such managers publicly declared that Thomas ran the league into the ground, possibly on purpose to eliminate the non-NBA-owned minor league in order to make room for the NBA-owned NBDL. The last paycheck was never paid to many of the teams, such as the Quad City Thunder.

Indiana Pacers - From 2000 to 2003, Thomas coached the Indiana Pacers, succeeding Larry Bird, who previously coached the Pacers to the NBA Eastern Conference title. Thomas attempted to bring up young talents such as Jermaine O'Neal, Jamaal Tinsley, Al Harrington, and Jeff Foster. Unfortunately Thomas was unable to continue to build on the accomplishments of his predecessor. In his first two seasons with the Pacers, the team was eliminated in the first round by the Philadelphia 76ers and the New Jersey Nets who did happen to go to the NBA Finals in those years.

In his last year with the Pacers, Thomas guided the Pacers to a 48-34 record in the regular season and coached the East squad at the 2003 NBA All-Star Game. The game was also Michael Jordan's final All-Star game. Thomas was criticized for overplaying Jordan during the game as an attempt to make up for their past feud. As the third seed, the Pacers were eliminated in the first round of the playoffs by the sixth-seed Boston Celtics. With blossoming talents such as Brad Miller, Ron Artest, Al Harrington and Jamaal Tinsley, along with the veteran leadership of Reggie Miller, the perception existed that the Pacers' unfulfilled potential stemmed from Isiah Thomas' inexperience as a coach. In the off-season, Larry Bird returned to the Pacers as President of Basketball Operations, and his first act was to replace Thomas with Rick Carlisle.

And then of course there's the Knicks.

Jordan has had one managerial stint before the Bobcats which was with the Washington Wizards, and most are split on his results there. Some hold grudges, but others say that his moves got rid of a lot of dead weight contracts and put them in the position to get Agent Zero and to have the team they're running with now.

No way in hell should there be a hint of a comparison between those two.

[chabber]

I've always thought Brown was one of the best coaches ever IMO. Obviously he has his faults as everyone is aware but his track record speaks for itself. Everywhere he goes (besides NY) he wins, even when he was with the Clippers. The main thing is he'd give us what this team truly lacks and that is direction on the court and someone who can teach these guys. Felton more than anyone would benefit from Brown coming here. At this point I'd put up with Brown leaving after a few years to know that someone in our management/staff actually knows something about running a basketball team successfully.

[Dunk]

I think Carlisle or Brown would get us 5-10 more wins over FHB assuming a similar level of talent. And that means playoffs. In the end, that's what it comes down to so I'd be happy with whatever happens.

For a longer terms solution, I think Carlisle would be someone you'd be better of investing in. I think he's a good coach who got dealt a crappy team. I think we have some pretty good piece parts (JRICH, Crash, Dudley, Felton) plus a high first round pick that he could work with.

[ohara831]

I think Carlisle or Brown would get us 5-10 more wins over FHB assuming a similar level of talent. And that means playoffs. In the end, that's what it comes down to so I'd be happy with whatever happens.

For a longer terms solution, I think Carlisle would be someone you'd be better of investing in. I think he's a good coach who got dealt a crappy team. I think we have some pretty good piece parts (JRICH, Crash, Dudley, Felton) plus a high first round pick that he could work with.
_________________________________________________

I'm just thinking that if we do start to have success, I'd hate for that to be interrupted by changing Coaches after only a couple yrs. That is what would happen with Brown, and why I feel the smarter move is Carlisle

[davcbow]

I just hope what ever MJ does he uses his best judgement. I know I wave my Fine Ham Biscuit banner, but do whats the best thing for the team so we can get better and make the playoffs and have a run at the show; I'm sick of 4 years in the basement of the league...... :g:

[MattD]

I think Carlisle or Brown would get us 5-10 more wins over FHB assuming a similar level of talent. And that means playoffs. In the end, that's what it comes down to so I'd be happy with whatever happens.


thats a very weird prediction. 5-10 games? Really we have no idea. Being able to put together a team and run a solid offense that works TO OUR ADVANTAGE rather then Sammy's weird backcut thing could allow us to win 20 more games. Then again, nothing could be different. Maybe the players would hustle more under Brown or Carlisle. Maybe a more effective defense was drawn up for the team.

All that we know about a coaching change for someone who is a proven winner shows that they know what they are doing running a team. 5-10 wins? Maybe, 10-20 Maybe, no improvement (lets hope not) but still possible.

I think the key is that we get a coach that demands players respect and knows what he is doing. Sam Vincent is learning and honestly I see improvement in him as a coach, so lets ride him down to an assistant and try and get him to learn, (maybe that is a no go, but if Sam had brains he would do it)

A new coach means a lot of new possibilities, but there is not guarantee of performance increase.

[dnbman]

Sam Vincent is learning and honestly I see improvement in him as a coach, so lets ride him down to an assistant and try and get him to learn, (maybe that is a no go, but if Sam had brains he would do it)

A new coach means a lot of new possibilities, but there is not guarantee of performance increase.


I wonder if Sam could be an assistant for us and be taken seriously though. I tend to think that Vincent will be an NBA coach, if not a head coach. However, I think he's going to have to take a step back with another team in order to take a few steps forward.

[TheBeagle]

I can probably find out how legit any of this stuff is. My dad's Army bud/longtime sportswriter for a major Philadelphia newspaper was in town this week covering the NCAA regionals in Charlotte, and he knows LB personally (found out some incredible stories about him and AI). I'll be honest, while he was here, we watched most of the 2nd half of the Sonics game, and he thought that we were a coach away from being a playoff team, but he never mentioned a name. If I hadn't've been so tired, I should've asked him, but, oh well, I'll email him and see.

From what he told me about LB, he's definitely a perfectionist, to the point of wanting screens set so precisely that he tells his players what degree they should angle their body at in relation to the player.

Maybe it's because he's got such a good relationship with him, I don't know, but the family friend thinks the world of LB, that much was apparent from anecdotes he gave over the weekend.

[timang]

DA for assistant coach! (not really related to the thread, hehe)


... totally related! ha!


so you're fine w/ DA as an assistant coach? i'm theoretically all for it. lulz

[spectre]

On the hot seat (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080331/OPINION03/803310396/1127/SPORTS0102)


The whispers are getting louder in Charlotte that Sam Vincent 's tenure as coach will be one and done.

The players have been shaking their collective head about his tactics and strategies all season, and now he's all but alienated one of the franchise's foundation pieces -- Emeka Okafor.

Vincent steadily has reduced Okafor's playing time -- he has played less than 30 minutes in 21 of the Bobcats' last 32 games.

"I think for the next 15 games, the emphasis to the guys is that we want to play hard and we want to win games," Vincent said. "Emeka was giving us nothing (in Indiana) so we went in another direction."

Okafor, a restricted free agent in July, turned down a six-year, $75 million contract extension last fall.

Keep banging them drums...

[spectre]

Ooooh, I missed this part. At the end of Inside Hoops rumors section there's a new editorial section...for the above part this was posted:


A source who just quotes a source's opinion on what another source implied -- give or take a source or two -- insists that the Bobcats may consider trying to lure Paul Silas next season if Sam Vincent isn't brought back. Yeah, not too definitive. That's why the rumor is in here, and not up top or in a feature article...

Heh, a lot of 2nd hand sources there!

[ziggy]

Keep banging them drums...
Consider those drums banged :biggrin:
bAKLfYkfe7g

[tamburello]

More banging from hoopsworld.com: Five Coaches on the Hot Seat
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=8073


Sam Vincent, Charlotte Bobcats

Avery Johnson's understudy in Dallas was brought to Charlotte last summer in hopes he would be able to lead the Bobcats to the first playoff berth in franchise history. The team traded for the big contract of Jason Richardson in a move which signaled the front office's desire to win now. With Richardson and a talented young cast of players playing in a still inferior Eastern Conference, all the pieces seemed to be in place. Unfortunately, things haven't worked out for Vincent and the Bobcats as they entered play on Monday with a record 28-45, which puts them five games out of the eighth seed in the East with only nine games to play. Word is Bobcats Managing Member of Basketball Operations Michael Jordan is ready to pull the plug and move on.

[spectre]

Word is Bobcats Managing Member of Basketball Operations Michael Jordan is ready to pull the plug and move on.

Michael we are SOOOOOOOO with you.

[spectre]

Vincent not concerned about rumors concerning his job (http://www.gastongazette.com/sports/vincent_18856___article.html/head_bobcats.html)

CHARLOTTE - Sam Vincent chuckled when asked to respond about a weekend ESPN.com report that his job as Charlotte Bobcats head basketball coach was in jeopardy.

"My seat's always hot," said Vincent, who has guided the Bobcats to a 28-46 record this season after Monday's 104-100 home loss to Toronto. "I'm not concerned with it (the report). That's just the nature of the business. There's always going to be rumors and speculation. My focus is to continue to do the best job I can do in this seat until (part-owner) Michael (Jordan) calls me and tells me to go home. That's what I'm going to do."

"I think we've done great," said Vincent, who felt his team was devastated when it suffered season-ending injuries to Sean May and

Adam Morrison in training camp. "I really do. I think, for where we are in the year and with the injuries that we have to two of our top five picks in the last couple of years, the growth of this team has been great. But, like I said, rumors and speculation are always going to be in the air."

:hysterical:

[Muttley]

"I think we've done great," said Vincent, who felt his team was devastated when it suffered season-ending injuries to Sean May and Adam Morrison in training camp. "I really do. I think, for where we are in the year and with the injuries that we have to two of our top five picks in the last couple of years, the growth of this team has been great. But, like I said, rumors and speculation are always going to be in the air."


That guy's said some crazy-ass things over the past 5 or 6 months.

I'm not sure either of those guys would have made that big of a difference in the season. I mean who even knows how/if Sam would have played them anyways.

[Slam]

This isn't Sam's fault.

It's Jordan's fault for putting someone so green in this position - a position to fail.

Jordan, especially after going through the exact same thing in Washington and firing their head coach after one season, should have known better.

Sam is under qualified to be a head coach in the NBA today. In a few more years of being an assistant he might be great, but as of today he's not ready - which makes him even less ready when Jordan signed him 8 months ago.

[spectre]

Oh I agree it's Jordan's fault for bringing him in...even go so far as to say the whole concept of bringing in a rookie coach to lead our inexperienced team was in error.

I also fault him for not stepping in and basically telling him what to do and what not to do. I know Colangelo last year pretty much told Smitch to play Bargs more...why couldn't Jordan just tell Vincent to stop playing McInnis so much but instead felt the need to waive him? I wasn't a big fan of his but that episode really bothered me.

What'd really be the kicker is if that rumor the other day which insinuated that Jordan was basically looking over Vincent's shoulder is true (I don't buy it obviously).

Oh yeah, Jordan has a lot of blame...but we can fire the coach.

[spectre]

Peter Vescey weighs in (http://www.nypost.com/seven/04012008/sports/shaq__riley__2_of_an_unkind_104409.htm?page=3)

How's this for curious Timing? According to reports, Michael Jordan is disenchanted with Sam Vincent. At the same time, the Bobcat rookie coach appears to have alienated the majority of players. Then how do you explain the team's just-concluded 3-1 West Coast road trip, its most successful in team history? "The players had a meeting and said, '[Bleep] the coach, let's win for ourselves,'" a Charlotte source was kind enough to clarify.

That's our boys!

[Muttley]

Peter Vescey weighs in (http://www.nypost.com/seven/04012008/sports/shaq__riley__2_of_an_unkind_104409.htm?page=3)

How's this for curious Timing? According to reports, Michael Jordan is disenchanted with Sam Vincent. At the same time, the Bobcat rookie coach appears to have alienated the majority of players. Then how do you explain the team's just-concluded 3-1 West Coast road trip, its most successful in team history? "The players had a meeting and said, '[Bleep] the coach, let's win for ourselves,'" a Charlotte source was kind enough to clarify.

That's our boys!


That's the spirit that makes me [Bleep]-ing love this team (meaning the group of players themselves).

That would certainly explain the Oak's resurgence!

[chabber]

Peter Vescey weighs in (http://www.nypost.com/seven/04012008/sports/shaq__riley__2_of_an_unkind_104409.htm?page=3)

How's this for curious Timing? According to reports, Michael Jordan is disenchanted with Sam Vincent. At the same time, the Bobcat rookie coach appears to have alienated the majority of players. Then how do you explain the team's just-concluded 3-1 West Coast road trip, its most successful in team history? "The players had a meeting and said, '[Bleep] the coach, let's win for ourselves,'" a Charlotte source was kind enough to clarify.

That's our boys!


[Bleep] the coach! I [Bleeping] love it!!!

[davcbow]

Peter Vescey weighs in (http://www.nypost.com/seven/04012008/sports/shaq__riley__2_of_an_unkind_104409.htm?page=3)

How's this for curious Timing? According to reports, Michael Jordan is disenchanted with Sam Vincent. At the same time, the Bobcat rookie coach appears to have alienated the majority of players. Then how do you explain the team's just-concluded 3-1 West Coast road trip, its most successful in team history? "The players had a meeting and said, '[Bleep] the coach, let's win for ourselves,'" a Charlotte source was kind enough to clarify.

That's our boys!


[Bleep] the coach! I [Bleeping] love it!!!


Love it, I freaking love it..... Way to go guys, I just wish the guys would have considered this sooner than now, but wait, that may have kept V here. :g:

Fine Ham Biscuits from everybody

[dvdbumpus]

Peter Vescey weighs in (http://www.nypost.com/seven/04012008/sports/shaq__riley__2_of_an_unkind_104409.htm?page=3)

How's this for curious Timing? According to reports, Michael Jordan is disenchanted with Sam Vincent. At the same time, the Bobcat rookie coach appears to have alienated the majority of players. Then how do you explain the team's just-concluded 3-1 West Coast road trip, its most successful in team history? "The players had a meeting and said, '[Bleep] the coach, let's win for ourselves,'" a Charlotte source was kind enough to clarify.

That's our boys!


[Bleep] the coach! I [Bleeping] love it!!!


+1 for that!

[Muttley]

Take this for what it's worth:

http://www.charlotte.com/bobcats/story/562115.html

Basically, Bob Johnson's given Vincent his vote of confidence as coach, but says that the final decision rests in MJ's hands.

Who knows what this will mean or how it will influence MJ's decision, but this could be reason enough for MJ to not can his buddy.

[MattD]

just read that muttley. I think from what we heard about the players saying fuck the coach pretty much means Sammy is done and done, no assistant coaching position either.

Interesting, I hope we choose a little more wisely this year.

[Muttley]

I hope we choose a little more wisely this year.


You said it, buddy.

We can't afford to make another mistake (read: hire another inexperienced coach).

[Dunk]

A vote of confidence is the kiss of death.

The way it's coming out basically makes it look like Bob Johnson wants to put the attention on MJ for making the decision and finding the new coach so that he'll look good and regain some lost luster on the job. This appears to be some political preamble for the firing, IMO.

[dnbman]

I just can't wait for the first time Vincent calls a timeout, and the guys say, "hell no. keep ballin'!"

Players start calling in their own subs...

Derrick Anderson starts calling their plays...

good times.

[MattD]

read this and weap

And Johnson believes Vincent can be the coach that brings the Bobcats to that next level.

"Next year we'll have a two-year coach, not a one-year coach," Johnson said. "Next year, hopefully we'll get Sean and Adam back healthy. Then I think you'll see what you've got."

sounds pretty sure he wants him to stay.


PLEASE MJ, PLEASE!!!

god. I will start protesting outside the arena if they keep him next year

[WarioVsMooChicken]

*Sharpens pitchfork*

[amour217]

PLEASE MJ, PLEASE!!!

god. I will start protesting outside the arena if they keep him next year



Hey hey, ho ho, Sam Vincent has got to go!

[Slam]

I just can't wait for the first time Vincent calls a timeout, and the guys say, "hell no. keep ballin'!"

Players start calling in their own subs...

Derrick Anderson starts calling their plays...

good times.


----------------------------------------

LOL!!

[davcbow]

Yeah the Sam Vincent experiment was a bust...... :g:

[TheBeagle]

Okay, I got an email from the longtime Philly sportswriter-family-friend (whew!) and he believes Brown would be a great fit in Charlotte, and that if the job was to become available, he'd be very interested in it. In effect, if he is offered the job, he'd likely take it. While the friend is in San Antoino this week covering the Final Four, he's going to ask around and see how legit the chatter is that "coach" is in jeopardy of not being back, as that is the biggest obstacle in Brown not being coach next season; that, and obviously if the 'Cats are interested in him as a replacement.

[timang]

I just can't wait for the first time Vincent calls a timeout, and the guys say, "hell no. keep ballin'!"

Players start calling in their own subs...

Derrick Anderson starts calling their plays...

good times.

EPIC! :hysterical:

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Sidebar...#10 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-080329-30)

The New York Daily News reported this week that the Memphis Grizzlies want Sixers consultant Larry Brown -- who's better known, of course, as the last Knicks coach before Isiah Thomas -- to replace first-year man Marc Iavaroni at season's end.

It's the first mention of a possible return to the bench for Brown in a while … which Grizz general manager Chris Wallace immediately shot down. But there are some growing rumblings on the coaching grapevine that Charlotte will surface as a realistic option for Brown.

Bobcats president Michael Jordan would surely prefer not to fire Sam Vincent after just one season. Yet one plugged-in source describes it as an inevitability, with any hit that Jordan might take for the growing perception that the former teammate he hired can't reach Charlotte's players sure to be softened if he can convince a coach of Brown's stature to take over.

That scenario would be reminiscent of Jordan's tenure in Washington, when the first coach MJ selected -- Leonard Hamilton -- lasted only one season before being replaced by a proven NBA commodity in Doug Collins.

I'd argue, furthermore, that Brown is unlikely to come across a more appetizing option than Charlotte, even if the Grizz were interested. Brown has made it clear that he doesn't want his 23-59 nightmare as the Knicks' coach to be his last big job and the Bobcats would have to appeal to the 67-year-old given his North Carolina ties, Jordan's decent collection of talent to work with and the Bobs' overwhelming need for someone who can teach them how to win.

All that would set Brown up perfectly in the East for the sort of instant improvement he triggered at pretty much every NBA stop he's made except with his hometown Knicks.

:funkybanana:

Personally I would freaking love this move. Brown could come in for 2-3 seasons and re-teach these guys the fundamentals and (like the article said) how to win. I'd pick up an "up and comer" as the lead assistant and groom him to take over.

I want to see many more of these type articles; it should be an inevitability and not a question.

There's one problem with this article. Is it likely that Bob Johnson will end his bias toward hiring almost all minorities or will he take the best possible coach willing to coach the cats? If he must stay the course he probably would be best to hire Paul Silas. I can't think of any other experienced minority available.

Another thread seems to show that MJ is too stupid to fire SV! If that is the case we need to hope MJ goes as well as SV!

The last game this team played against the Portland Trailblazers, the announcers were saying how shocking it was that the team was performing so badly. They stopped short of placing the blame on SV!

[chabber]

Okay, I got an email from the longtime Philly sportswriter-family-friend (whew!) and he believes Brown would be a great fit in Charlotte, and that if the job was to become available, he'd be very interested in it. In effect, if he is offered the job, he'd likely take it. While the friend is in San Antoino this week covering the Final Four, he's going to ask around and see how legit the chatter is that "coach" is in jeopardy of not being back, as that is the biggest obstacle in Brown not being coach next season; that, and obviously if the 'Cats are interested in him as a replacement.


Sounds great man, keep us informed if you hear anything else. :D

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Brown did have hip replacement surgery, but it was the year before he joined the Knicks...back at the end of 2004.

Point is, he's OLD!

IMO it'd be a lot different from NY. One, we're talking MJ (who Brown worships) vs. Isiah (one of MJ's biggest rivals). Two, Brown is probably desperate to reverse that last huge hit to his legacy so it will mean a lot to him personally if he were able to take this team to respectability.

Third...he monkeys up here Dean Smith would kick his ass (or disown him, which would probably be worse).

I've seen the stories about Brown doesn't play young guys and I assume that comes a lot from the Darko saga. Yet he's also considered one of the best teachers of the game. Kind of a contradiction isn't it? At any rate, our main guys are all going to be into their 4th year or more; tho we are still relatively young we aren't pups anymore.
Larry Brown may have lost patience in coaching up young players thus he had his best success in Detroit with veteran players. He was a pretty good college coach at one time and at least WAS a good coach of younger players. I think his age and his patience these days could deter him from being a good teacher to younger players though.

With that said, we do have some quality leaders on this team in GWall, JRich, DAnderson and even Earl Boykins. All four have quality experience and could be assistant coaches on the court which would offset so much responsibility for coach Brown. I also don't think we have the egomaniacs on our team that Larry Brown had in NY! Our players would know that this man has titles in both college and the pros which would automatically command some respect.

Lets hope this somehow happens and we get a real General to run our troops.

[Muttley]

MJ, have your people call LB's people and let's hammer ourselves out a deal!


latest article:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3327660&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines

[ohara831]

I was just reading that article. Great. If he wants in, then we can show him to door into Charlotte. I've mentioned before that I would rather have a Coach who would be around for a while to create some stability, and I like Carlisle in that respect. But if we need a quick fix and turn around, and dont mind the instability of having to hunt for another Head Coach in 2-3 years, then Brown is the man.

[ziggy]

I just can't wait for the first time Vincent calls a timeout, and the guys say, "hell no. keep ballin'!"

Players start calling in their own subs...

Derrick Anderson starts calling their plays...

good times.


----------------------------------------

LOL!!


Hell No! Keep Ballin.
Everytime I think about that, it cracks me up. In fact it inspired me to make up one of these :)
http://86673.spreadshirt.com/us/US/Shop/Article/Index/article/2914320

[ohara831]

Did you see Stephen A. Smith on the Pre Game tonight. Talking about how we should not worry with firing Vincent, but to get J-Rich more talent on the team to help him. Either he likes Vincent, hates MJ and wants him to do stupid stuff, or he hates the Bobcats and wants us to stay mired in this fiasco.

[dnbman]

Did you see Stephen A. Smith on the Pre Game tonight. Talking about how we should not worry with firing Vincent, but to get J-Rich more talent on the team to help him. Either he likes Vincent, hates MJ and wants him to do stupid stuff, or he hates the Bobcats and wants us to stay mired in this fiasco.


Man... if he said that, oh, the irony! This is the same guy who slammed us for trading for him on draft night.

Jeez.

[MattD]

he hates on every move this team makes. He was up in arms when the bobcats traded for Jrich, now look, the dude should be an all star. Compared to Ray Allen's numbers, he should definitely be an all star, and if he plays this way next season, he will be.

Vincent needs to go. ASAP.

[dnbman]

I just can't wait for the first time Vincent calls a timeout, and the guys say, "hell no. keep ballin'!"

Players start calling in their own subs...

Derrick Anderson starts calling their plays...

good times.


----------------------------------------

LOL!!


Hell No! Keep Ballin.
Everytime I think about that, it cracks me up. In fact it inspired me to make up one of these :)
http://86673.spreadshirt.com/us/US/Shop/Article/Index/article/2914320


Guy! If you start selling these, my royalty is going to be a free shirt! 8)

Nice one! :biggrin:

[ziggy]

If we sell any, I'll be glad to send you a freebie :)

[Muttley]

Dude, that shirt looks sweet. In fact this website should now be titled "Bobcats Planet: Hell No, Keep Ballin!'".

Also, SAS is an ass, and he hated the JRich trade when we made it.

He just talks to talk. F' him.

[ohara831]

Please sign Sam to a long term Contract! His greatness is just about to shine through! I feel his genius and creativity moving through our team, leading us to greatness! Next season, we are Champions!!!!

OK. Time to wake up from my day dreaming. What did I just write?

[dvdbumpus]

Please sign Sam to a long term Contract! His greatness is just about to shine through! I feel his genius and creativity moving through our team, leading us to greatness! Next season, we are Champions!!!!

OK. Time to wake up from my day dreaming. What did I just write?



You would be on crack if you really thought that.