Matt Carroll = Bad Signing.

[Mustachio]

Everyone on this site likes to hate on the Adam Morrison deal... calling him a bust.

I don't think theres enough evidence there to support that theory... but i will say it hasn't been the worlds greatest start.

That said. If your upset with the Ammo deal, why hasn't anyone called out Matt Carroll. Matt is averaging 8.9 points a game. For a SG thats terrible, couple that with the fact that we now have Jrich, and the fact that MC makes 5.45 Million dollars a year for THE NEXT 6 FREAKIN YEARS! all adds up to a terrible signing. lets just look at some numbers.

Matt Carroll: 2007-08 Season. 8.9 ppg/0.9 apg/2.7 rpg
Adam Morrison: 2006-07 Season. 11.8 ppg/2.1 apg/2.9 rpg

keep in mind Ammo was a rookie, while MC has been in the league (or D-league) for 4-5 years now. So by the big 3 numbers, Ammo is a better scorer, rebounder and distributor. Adam Morrison is also way more versatile. So people that complain that Crash is our SF. thats fine, Adam can back up Crash and Jrich and definetly be ok starting in their place. Meanwhile, unless Sam Vincent is coaching, Matt Carroll can only replace Jrich. and as far as starting... do you really think we are better off starting MC or Ammo.

I think that Adam has 10x the upside that Matt has. He can play more positions and play them better. and Matt makes WAY too much money for what he offers. there are 100s of Matt Carrolls around. Before we go offering to trade all these players like Mek, Morrison and May, I think we need to step back and rethink all the positions. even if he is a fan favorite.

I am under the impression that if Charlotte is ever gonna have a good balanced roster with the cap space to make any decent moves... Matt Carroll needs to go. Trade him for draft picks, or a Dleaguer for all i care. Just get his brick throwing 5.45 million dollars off my cap space.

[spectre]

I think that Ammo and Hammer are different players so it's hard to do a straight up comparison. Hammer provides a valuable asset in being a catch and shoot scorer whereas Ammo didn't really accel in doing that. What's really the downside in having both is neither is good defensively.

Couple points in Hammer's favor though: 1) Vincent giving him sporadic PT is a decent excuse for his struggles this year. 2) His contract is frontloaded. We might be paying retail now but in a couple of years he'll be well worth his money and will be a good asset.

[Muttley]

I like Matt Carroll as a person and a player.

What gets to me though is the amount of time that it takes for him to get in a groove. With the wing-heavy roster we have, he's gotta be better at sparking the offense as a sub and not needing to take 4 or 5 shots before he starts hitting them. It's worth noting though if I'm not mistaken, that Matt's contract shrinks over the remaining years.

I'd love to keep Adam and Matt and everyone else on the roster until they retire if it were possible, but it's not. Unfortunately, we may have to move someone this off-season. I liked what Ammo did last summer getting in better shape and obviously stepping up his D. It's so awful for him and the fans that we didn't get to see his improvement this season. Hopefully he'll get back to that level again soon.

If we need to move either, and it's the best thing for the Cats, then I'd have to accept moving whichever gets us the most in return.

I dunno, I guess I'm rambling, but let me conclude by saying that we really need to sign Larry Brown (or Silas, etc) before the Bobcats Org seriously discusses moving anyone. They're going to have a certain player set in mind for what they want to do. They may want a 3-point specialist shooting guard or they may want a cheaper sg/sf.

[ammofan]

I agree with you 100% about Adam Morrison being called a bust for no reason BUT he cant be compared to Matt Carroll and vice-versa because they are different players. Matt is more of just a shooter. If we got into the playoffs Matt could come off the bench and give us that clutch end of game 3-pointer.
Adam on the other hand, can do a little bit of eveerything. he gives us the attitude that we need too. He is more of a starter than Matt and Adam could easily put up 20 ppg next season if he stated in place of Wallace...

[Mustachio]

all that sounds good... but answer me this.

whens the last time Matt Carroll came in and hit the clutch 3?? cause i sure cant remember it.

whens the last time Matt Carroll came in and hurt someone with his supposed catch and shoot ability. Whens the last time he took over a game?

biggest question is... what has Matt done lately that we arent absolutely positive Jrich and Ammo couldnt solve?

Im just saying Adam makes less money right now, and sells more jersey's. hes the bigger asset in my opinion, because quite frankly im not sure yet what Matt Carroll really brings to the table for 5 million dollars. Adam can come into a game and miss 4 3 pointers in a row for god sakes... and sell more jerseys while doing it. any thing Matt can do, Adam can do better. so why not shop Matt and see what we can get? and if nothing else just get his ridiculous salary off the books... scaled or not.

[Slam]

Adam Morrison wishes he was half the basketball player Matt Carroll is.

[ziggy]

Mustachio, I believe that I'm going to have to side with you on the Adam -vs- Matt debate.
Matt is a nice catch and shoot player, but given a healthy season or two under his belt with some quality coaching, I feel that Adam clearly has a higher ceiling. His rookie year had some truly bad moments, but he was put in a position and asked to do things where it was tough for him to succeed.

Howeva, (In my best Stephen A. <cheese doodle> Smith impersonation) if he shoots 36% from the field next year then I can't defend him any more. That FG% has to come WAY up.

[Mustachio]

oh clearly adam has some work to do. my only point is... adam was a freakin rookie adjusting to a new game and still out scored out rebounded and had more assist than Matt Carroll who is making twice as much money.

its all about value... and because adam has so much higher of a ceiling i feel like his upside is worth his rookie contract. where as we are grossly overpaying for MC's services.

[davcbow]

Carroll is a proven player, he is good more than he is bad. Morrison hasn't proved himself yet, but he will be back and I bet a lot of folks are going to change their minds about him if he can stay healthy. I think that if Ham Biscuit wasn't the coach Adam might have been able to avoid his injury. I think Adam was playing against a player he really shouldn't have played against during the pre-season game. Plus also the Lakers had a vendetta against the Cats and weren't going to let them win no matter what it took. I remember the play but can't remember the player he was playing against but boy they seemed very aggressive the entire game. Morrison will be back and change people's minds. :g:

[Slam]

Wea re glossing over Ammo earning 3.8 a year and Hammer earning 5.4 - FAR from double.

We are glossing over the 4th years of their deals - when they will both be earning about the same.

We are glossing over the fact that drafting Ammo cost us Roy or Gay and maybe even LMA - guys who are and will be MUCH better than Ammo.

We are glossing over their per game stats -

Rk Player From To G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Matt Carroll 2004 2008 268 68 20.7 3.0 7.0 .420 1.1 2.7 .410 1.9 2.2 .849 0.4 2.0 2.4 0.8 0.6 0.2 0.8 1.9 8.9
2 Adam Morrison 2007 2007 78 23 29.8 4.6 12.1 .376 1.1 3.3 .337 1.5 2.2 .710 0.7 2.3 2.9 2.1 0.4 0.1 1.7 2.3 11.8

which show that Ammo played almost TEN more mins per game, took FIVE more shots and shot MUCH worse from the floor, the 3pt line AND the ft line.

We are glossing over that Ammo is TWO inches taller yet a MUCH worse rebounder than Hammer - and we all know how much we need rebounding.

We are glossing over the fact that Ammo is YET to take a charge in an NBA game - yet Hammer puts his body on the line and scraps for loose balls every, single, game.


I like Ammo, and I have really high hopes for him next season. He is a basketball junkie and I bet that having to sit out this whole season has just eaten away at him. I bet he comes out next season on fire with something to prove and a real love for the game.

But don't EVER try to put down one of our heart and soul guy's who is miles better than Ammo at the moment to try and pump your boys tyres up.

[Slam]

think that if Ham Biscuit wasn't the coach Adam might have been able to avoid his injury. I think Adam was playing against a player he really shouldn't have played against during the pre-season game
-----------------------

Huh???

How can you put this on Vincent? If Ammo can't guard Luke frigging Walton, who can he guard?

[spectre]

oh clearly adam has some work to do. &#160; my only point is... adam was a freakin rookie adjusting to a new game and still out scored &#160;out rebounded and had more assist than Matt Carroll who is making twice as much money.

its all about value... and because adam has so much higher of a ceiling i feel like his upside is worth his rookie contract. &#160;where as we are grossly overpaying for MC's services.


Well for the record, Hammer will make just under 1 million more than Ammo next year (5.05 vs. 4.16)...the year after in the 09/10 season Ammo will be making more (5.26 vs. 4.7).

Not only does he have to improve his FG% he also has to not let average defenders keep him from getting his shot off...a NYK game comes to mind where Marbury flat out shut him down.


Huh???

How can you put this on Vincent?&#160; If Ammo can't guard Luke frigging Walton, who can he guard?

Because Vincent is the Devil!

http://images.allmoviephoto.com/1998_The_Waterboy/kathy_bates_the_waterboy_001.jpg

[Slam]

I'm so close to starting a:

"Adam Morrison = Bad Draft Pick"

thread it ain't even funny.

[TheBeagle]

Matt's contract, like some of you've already said, seems worse than it is; that said, I'm no capologist, so I defer to my betters on this one, but I don't think Matt's contract is going to hinder us in the longer run by any means, a la Nazr.

Also, if Matt got consistent PT, and if there was a regular rotation in place by "coach", his numbers would be significantly better. Anyway, isn't he in the top 10 in 3pt accuracy?

Matt is the more lethal 3pt shooter, the better foul shooter (even though he's had a down year by his standards), and seems to have a more consistent game than Ammo. But all I have to judge Ammo is by his rookie season, so I don't know what sort of progress he'll have made by the team next season rolls around.

I think they, along with JD, can co-exist and find PT without moving either Matt or Ammo, but if moving one of them can improve the team, then so be it, but at this point, I'd side with keeping Matt.

[bizzlecatz]

I'm so close to starting a:

"Adam Morrison = Bad Draft Pick"

thread it ain't even funny.


Go ahead, I got your back :)

[WarioVsMooChicken]

Whenever Carrol starts, he does put up starter numbers. He just needs constant playing time. He's a terrific shooter and whenever we have a rebounder out, he always seems to have a high rebound game. I really think that he provides quality depth that we would need to become a playoff team. For 3 million a year, I can't complain much.

[Slam]

Go ahead, I got your back
-------------------

I would. but it's been beat to death. I jsut get pissed that someone would try and throw a Bobcat under the bus, especially one that gives as much as the Hammer does, to try and fluff up their boy.

We drafted Ammo, like it or not he's ours, we all want him to do well while he is ours (until he is hopefully traded) because that means that we as a team do well.

I'm serious when I write that I really want to see him lite it up next season, and I think he will.

[bizzlecatz]

Go ahead, I got your back
-------------------

I would. but it's been beat to death. I jsut get pissed that someone would try and throw a Bobcat under the bus, especially one that gives as much as the Hammer does, to try and fluff up their boy.

We drafted Ammo, like it or not he's ours, we all want him to do well while he is ours (until he is hopefully traded) because that means that we as a team do well.

My point exactly, if I could give you a rep I would.

I'm serious when I write that I really want to see him lite it up next season, and I think he will.

[ammofan]

Adam Morrison wishes he was half the basketball player Matt Carroll is.


No MC wishes he was as good as Adam...

[ammofan]

Go ahead, I got your back
-------------------

I would. but it's been beat to death. I jsut get pissed that someone would try and throw a Bobcat under the bus, especially one that gives as much as the Hammer does, to try and fluff up their boy.

We drafted Ammo, like it or not he's ours, we all want him to do well while he is ours (until he is hopefully traded) because that means that we as a team do well.

I'm serious when I write that I really want to see him lite it up next season, and I think he will.


Okay, but you havent had much to say good about Adam either.....

[Slam]

Okay, but you havent had much to say good about Adam either.....

--------------------

Ummmmm, maybe because there hasn't been anything good to say about him.......yet?

And I sure as shit have never started a thread about him like this one was started about the Hammer.

[ammofan]

all that sounds good... but answer me this.

whens the last time Matt Carroll came in and hit the clutch 3?? cause i sure cant remember it.

whens the last time Matt Carroll came in and hurt someone with his supposed catch and shoot ability. Whens the last time he took over a game?

biggest question is... what has Matt done lately that we arent absolutely positive Jrich and Ammo couldnt solve?

Im just saying Adam makes less money right now, and sells more jersey's. hes the bigger asset in my opinion, because quite frankly im not sure yet what Matt Carroll really brings to the table for 5 million dollars. Adam can come into a game and miss 4 3 pointers in a row for god sakes... and sell more jerseys while doing it. any thing Matt can do, Adam can do better. so why not shop Matt and see what we can get? and if nothing else just get his ridiculous salary off the books... scaled or not.


I said he has the ability to do that if we need him to. Who says he cant? Have you seen some of the shots he has made this season? How about the 3 pointer and 1 in Kobe's face??? :rock:

[ammofan]

Okay, but you havent had much to say good about Adam either.....

--------------------

Ummmmm, maybe because there hasn't been anything good to say about him.......yet?

And I sure as shit have never started a thread about him like this one was started about the Hammer.



ummmmm hello? Without Morrison we wouldn't have had as many wins in 06-07......remember the game againest San Antonio.....or the game @ T-Wolves where he took over the game in the 2nd half when the rest of our team had given up?

[ziggy]

Because Vincent is the Devil!

Incarnate!

[Slam]

ummmmm hello? Without Morrison we wouldn't have had as many wins in 06-07......

----------------------------

I could just as easily say that we would have more games without him, his horrible shooting from the floor, the 3pt line and the ft line and his non existant defence.

[chabber]

Wea re glossing over Ammo earning 3.8 a year and Hammer earning 5.4 - FAR from double.

We are glossing over the 4th years of their deals - when they will both be earning about the same.

We are glossing over the fact that drafting Ammo cost us Roy or Gay and maybe even LMA - guys who are and will be MUCH better than Ammo.

We are glossing over their per game stats -

Rk Player From To G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Matt Carroll 2004 2008 268 68 20.7 3.0 7.0 .420 1.1 2.7 .410 1.9 2.2 .849 0.4 2.0 2.4 0.8 0.6 0.2 0.8 1.9 8.9
2 Adam Morrison 2007 2007 78 23 29.8 4.6 12.1 .376 1.1 3.3 .337 1.5 2.2 .710 0.7 2.3 2.9 2.1 0.4 0.1 1.7 2.3 11.8

which show that Ammo played almost TEN more mins per game, took FIVE more shots and shot MUCH worse from the floor, the 3pt line AND the ft line.

We are glossing over that Ammo is TWO inches taller yet a MUCH worse rebounder than Hammer - and we all know how much we need rebounding.

We are glossing over the fact that Ammo is YET to take a charge in an NBA game - yet Hammer puts his body on the line and scraps for loose balls every, single, game.


I like Ammo, and I have really high hopes for him next season. He is a basketball junkie and I bet that having to sit out this whole season has just eaten away at him. I bet he comes out next season on fire with something to prove and a real love for the game.

But don't EVER try to put down one of our heart and soul guy's who is miles better than Ammo at the moment to try and pump your boys tyres up.


I agree with every word. Great post Slam and it's exactly what I was thinking when reading the first post.

I won't disagree that it might have been smarter to sign a player who fills a needed role instead of a player who duplicates J Rich's talent to a lesser extent. However, I think his contract could easily be moved if needed and at the time I thought signing Matt was the right thing to do.

[ohara831]

Wow! This Thread sure struck a nerve. I love conversations like this one. Suffice it to say, this town aint big enough for both of the men. Someone's gotta go. Who's becomes trade bait? My vote: Matt Carroll.
Adam has a higher ceiling.
Matt has too high a contract. Signing him was not bad, but he is making too much $ for the time he will spend on the Court. When Crash is healthy and playing, and if we end up drafting a G/F if that is who is available when we pick, his minutes will be eaten up.
Teams think Adam is a bust, so they will pay more for Carroll. They fail to recognize as most of us do that Adam has a higher ceiling (whether he reaches it or not is a different argument)

Solution: Carroll will be moved this Draft with our 2nd rounder to move back up into the late 1st. Westbrook with 8th or 9th pick, Ibaka with our other 1st and all if fine in Bobcat land.

[bizzlecatz]

I was reading the trade board on real GM, and the Pistons have 4PF's and need a SF. They are willing to trade Jason Maxiell. You think the Hammer can pull him, or do we need him. They are also willing to let Air Johnson go for a higher pick. What do you guys think about Maxiell or Johnson. Any thoughts on another trade with the pistons.

[Icky Thump]

I think Carroll is a quality player who has suffered through a bad coach this season. He'll never be a star and won't average killer numbers. Ammo COULD average killer numbers but didn't do it in his rookie year and obviously hasn't had the opportunity to do so since and will be given short time considering the guys in front of him in the years to come.... so it's definitely a cloudy situation.

Having said that... if we have to trade one or both of them for a decent post player... I'd have to say adios...we are horrible down low scoring and rebounding/defending....just BAD.

[EvetsMorrison15]

too soon to judge. This team is too young to put a label on. Specially on its players. their so young.

Carroll's shooting attempts are lower than last year. he's played more games last year than he has this year. 72 games played and 658 attempts last year, 77 games played and 554 attempts this year.

Carroll just needs to learn to play along with J-Rich. that's all. More is asked of him this year and he's adapting.

plus were playing at a faster pace. Richardson, Wallace, and Felton are getting more attempts because they run the break well.

p.s. don't bash my boy Morrison. He hasn't even played this year.

Yal just want to hate.

[ammofan]

p.s. don't bash my boy Morrison. He hasn't even played this year.

Yal just want to hate.


THANK YOU!!!!!! Morrison shouldn't be criticized

[dnbman]

But, nobody was really criticizing Morrison (other than saying they wish we would have taken Rudy or Roy; most would agree). It was only when a shot was taken at Carroll that shots were taken at Morrison.

I think what Carroll has going for him that Morrison does not is that Carroll is a known quantity. (Assuming a stable coaching situation.) He's a spot up shooter that keeps defenses or honest or punishes them for leaving him open. There have been numerous games where Carroll gave us the advantage through his outside shooting. While he's no defensive all-star by any stretch of the imagination, he plays with high energy and is scrappy. I've actually seen him make a lot of great defensive plays this year. He also is a pretty good rebounder for what he is. Basically, I think he's a more dynamic Paxson/Kerr type, with an ever so slight touch of Dan Majerle. Because we can switch Richardson to SF, he can actually get more PT than you think.

Morrison clearly has the higher ceiling; nobody questions that. However, he's got to find his game within the team and not expect his team to always find him, as they did in college. I think Morrison will be interesting to watch this year. But, I'm not ready to ship off Carroll because the Mustache sells more shirts.

[CMc$]

I really want Ammo to rock it next year. Coming out of college he looked like a sure thing. His body language was awful last year and I think so much of his game depends on how he feels. That is a positive and a negative. Fans are apprehensive though because inbetween his flashes of brilliance last year there were extreme troughs. He, like Sean, was drafted to sell tickets and to a lesser extent play good basketball. I think both times management got a little too caught up with dollar signs in their eyes instead of evaluating raw physicality and talent.

His bad shooting percentage last year hurts even more when you realize the streaks that made up that percentage as a season whole. There was one stretch in December in which he was like 3 for 30-something over the course of a few games. His player efficiency ratings were really bad as well.

I do agree that Morrison has more potential in the long run than Carroll, however, Carroll gets the edge in my book when you study both of them as athletes and people.

Ammo seems to have a bad, introverted attitude and doesn't care about how he looks. it says something about someone when they look as shabby as he does. Plus, he is an athlete that smokes and uses dip. Not only is that gross, but it's terrible for someone who makes a living playing basketball.

All that being said I hope they both excel next year and that we all bow down before Adam and his basketball greatness.

[ammofan]

I really want Ammo to rock it next year. Coming out of college he looked like a sure thing. His body language was awful last year and I think so much of his game depends on how he feels. That is a positive and a negative. Fans are apprehensive though because inbetween his flashes of brilliance last year there were extreme troughs. He, like Sean, was drafted to sell tickets and to a lesser extent play good basketball. I think both times management got a little too caught up with dollar signs in their eyes instead of evaluating raw physicality and talent.

His bad shooting percentage last year hurts even more when you realize the streaks that made up that percentage as a season whole. There was one stretch in December in which he was like 3 for 30-something over the course of a few games. His player efficiency ratings were really bad as well.

I do agree that Morrison has more potential in the long run than Carroll, however, Carroll gets the edge in my book when you study both of them as athletes and people.

Ammo seems to have a bad, introverted attitude and doesn't care about how he looks. it says something about someone when they look as shabby as he does. Plus, he is an athlete that smokes and uses dip. Not only is that gross, but it's terrible for someone who makes a living playing basketball.

All that being said I hope they both excel next year and that we all bow down before Adam and his basketball greatness.

+1 for you....and no Adam doesn't care about his looks, but really, wouldn't you want a guy that cares about basketball more than his looks on your team rather than a guy who is only using his basketaball skills to get the lifestyle and money?
And, Morrison is also liked because of his crazy hair and Not-so good looks(Well thats one thing I like about him....lol)

I do have a theory about Adam's LOOOOOOOOOOONNNGGGGG hair though, I think that he is keeping it until he can play basketball at full speed again(Like football players do in the playoffs with their beards...)

[EvetsMorrison15]

Why are we talking about another Man's looks?

this isn't a Chris Crocker Forum. :rkiss0:

[WarioVsMooChicken]

I'd do Adam...in the straightest way possible.

[Mustachio]

this got stupid real quick.

FORGET MORRISON. Trade him if its a good deal... i could care less. Im a bobcats fan. not a morrison fan. I only brought Morrison up to show that Carroll is easily replaced on his own team. Matt Carroll is absolutely as good as he is gonna get. the fact that he makes a humongous salary for 8.9 points a game average is what hurts. If he walked away today... we wouldnt miss him the slightest freakin bit. any other team wouldnt give him 3 million a year and would get much less PT.

If you can call anyone on the bobcats team consistent... well then i dont know what to say to you except that if someone was consistent we would have more than 32 wins this year.

Sure Matts got heart. So does Jrich probably more. Sure Matt can shoot a 3 pointer one out of every 3 shots, but never clutch. JRich can too, only better. I just think that bringing in a SG that is easily replaced was stupid... and it shows every night he gets PT and misses 5 shots before hitting one.

everyone keeps whining about consistent playing time??? hes a back up SG, he backs up Jrich when Jrich needs a breather or Sam Vincent goes retarded for a few minutes. Hes not a starter, only starters get consitent minutes. If you can get paid 5 million dollars a year and not come in a do what your supposed to do... then you were a bad signing period.

I dont wanna hear anything else about Morrison I COULD CARE LESS ... couldnt be further from trying to "push my own guy". I have stated a billion times... Ammo has a ways to go to even worry about talkin about him. And if Ammo doesnt prove something next year... i dont care if we cut him. I just think he has about 10 billion more feet of ceiling room than MC.

Matt Carroll has smacked his ceiling hard and now we have his so called spot shooting for 6 years.

[Muttley]

I was reading the trade board on real GM, and the Pistons have 4PF's and need a SF. They are willing to trade Jason Maxiell. You think the Hammer can pull him, or do we need him. They are also willing to let Air Johnson go for a higher pick. What do you guys think about Maxiell or Johnson. Any thoughts on another trade with the pistons.



I like Maxiell a lot. Johnson's not bad either. I'm not sure if they'd take Hammer for him or not, though.



this got stupid real quick.


True.

[EvetsMorrison15]

Since Mustachy cleared things up, allow me to too.

Adam Morrison's hair is so long because maybe they can't cut it. It may be too strong for anyone to cut. So I did some research on indestructible hair. All I got was that only one other person has indestructible hair.

This man can only cut his hair by using heat vision and bouncing the beam of heat off of a mirror to cut his hair. And only by his heat vision can he cut his hair. So since this is true, I think we all can assume who Adam Morrison really is...

Ammofan . . . you've been right all along.

[MattD]

I think that if Ham Biscuit wasn't the coach Adam might have been able to avoid his injury. I think Adam was playing against a player he really shouldn't have played against during the pre-season game. Plus also the Lakers had a vendetta against the Cats and weren't going to let them win no matter what it took.


sorry, I am going to interject, that is a ridiculous statement. Its too easy to blame the coach for every problem. I instead look to Adam's slow feet as he got crossed by Luke Walton and all 6'9 of him. Wow embarrassing.

As far as Ammo vs Carroll, Ill keep Carroll thanks, consistency rules and if we didnt have a couple strong wings, Carroll would be a strong filler piece around a superstar as a starter. Give him 30+ minutes and youll get more then 15 points generally.

Adam has a lot to prove, lets hope we can see that next year, as he will struggle for pt under our heavy 3 position

[Mustachio]

30+ minutes??? consistency??? what the hell are you people talking about.

HE BACKS UP JRICH AND CAN PLAY NO OTHER POSITION! why in the hell would you bench Jrich for 30 minutes. ever. unless your name is sam vincent. and why in gods name would you play Jrich at the SF position??? so that you could get Matt Carroll in the game? come on guys... there really is no arguing this point... we pay too much for a back up who often doesnt fulfill his role. but he does it with heart so i guess its ok.

thats part of my beef. we have Dudley who can play the 3 and maybe the 4 for small stretches.... we have morrison who plays the 3 and can definetly play the 2. It just makes more sense to become more flexible with your roster than to pay 5 million dollars to a guy who's only role is to spot fill for a borderline all star. Jrich should never sit a game for more than 5-10 minutes. in little stretches through the game of course.... which means his back up is gonna get 5-10 minutes. If you cant come in for those stretches and your making as much as MC does... your a bad signing.

and if you call sitting on the bench coming in and hoistin 5 threes making 2 consistent... then your easier to please than I.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

Carrol at point guard, how many times do I have to say it?

[ziggy]

I'd do Adam...in the straightest way possible.

Sir... Thats T-Shirt slogan worthy material right there.

[MattD]

30+ minutes??? consistency??? what the hell are you people talking about.

HE BACKS UP JRICH AND CAN PLAY NO OTHER POSITION! why in the hell would you bench Jrich for 30 minutes. ever. unless your name is sam vincent. and why in gods name would you play Jrich at the SF position??? so that you could get Matt Carroll in the game? come on guys... there really is no arguing this point... we pay too much for a back up who often doesnt fulfill his role. but he does it with heart so i guess its ok.

thats part of my beef. we have Dudley who can play the 3 and maybe the 4 for small stretches.... we have morrison who plays the 3 and can definetly play the 2. It just makes more sense to become more flexible with your roster than to pay 5 million dollars to a guy who's only role is to spot fill for a borderline all star. Jrich should never sit a game for more than 5-10 minutes. in little stretches through the game of course.... which means his back up is gonna get 5-10 minutes. If you cant come in for those stretches and your making as much as MC does... your a bad signing.

and if you call sitting on the bench coming in and hoistin 5 threes making 2 consistent... then your easier to please than I.


easy killah. Read what I said. I never suggested benching Jrich for Carroll.

If he was a starting SG, he would be worth his money. I wouldnt sit Jrich for Carroll as a starter, and right now Carroll's role is a 10-15 minute guy off then bench, this doesnt really fit his style of play.

However, Carroll's deal in terms of talent, is pretty good. His deal in terms of his situation, not as good, and a little bit too long (6 years, only excellent players get that long generally).

As far as consistency, Carroll's shooting is not streaky, its pure and really almost always excellent. That puts him above people like ammo who can be amazing and then crap.

now, to go off topic a little bit again and answer another one of your questions, I think Jrich plays a better SF then he does a SG. Jrich is a great mid-long range shooter, and is pretty good on drives, but when there is another sharp shooter on the court, it opens the floor for him. Maybe if we were talking an excellent shooting PG, then he could be just as good at SG, but I like how he plays at SF.

With our roster, it doesnt make sense when everyone is healthy, but when we won 5 in a row, we were starting Jrich at the three.

[MattD]

well tonight matt really helped me prove my point... oh wait, 36 minutes, only 8 points of 3-9. oh well, the past two he was averaging 19.5

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Everyone on this site likes to hate on the Adam Morrison deal... calling him a bust.

I don't think theres enough evidence there to support that theory... but i will say it hasn't been the worlds greatest start.

That said. If your upset with the Ammo deal, why hasn't anyone called out Matt Carroll. Matt is averaging 8.9 points a game. For a SG thats terrible, couple that with the fact that we now have Jrich, and the fact that MC makes 5.45 Million dollars a year for THE NEXT 6 FREAKIN YEARS! all adds up to a terrible signing. lets just look at some numbers.

Matt Carroll: 2007-08 Season. 8.9 ppg/0.9 apg/2.7 rpg
Adam Morrison: 2006-07 Season. 11.8 ppg/2.1 apg/2.9 rpg

keep in mind Ammo was a rookie, while MC has been in the league (or D-league) for 4-5 years now. So by the big 3 numbers, Ammo is a better scorer, rebounder and distributor. Adam Morrison is also way more versatile. So people that complain that Crash is our SF. thats fine, Adam can back up Crash and Jrich and definetly be ok starting in their place. Meanwhile, unless Sam Vincent is coaching, Matt Carroll can only replace Jrich. and as far as starting... do you really think we are better off starting MC or Ammo.

I think that Adam has 10x the upside that Matt has. He can play more positions and play them better. and Matt makes WAY too much money for what he offers. there are 100s of Matt Carrolls around. Before we go offering to trade all these players like Mek, Morrison and May, I think we need to step back and rethink all the positions. even if he is a fan favorite.

I am under the impression that if Charlotte is ever gonna have a good balanced roster with the cap space to make any decent moves... Matt Carroll needs to go. Trade him for draft picks, or a Dleaguer for all i care. Just get his brick throwing 5.45 million dollars off my cap space.
Before anybody gets bruised egos over their players being ridiculed lets take a deep breath. Nobody on this team is really all that bad. AMMo was not ready to be a teams leader and that affected his play as much as anything. I feel that Adam gave us signs last year of some quality potential. Offensively I feel his game will be much improved. Defensively I think he will struggle. Still he will make up for that liability with offensive hustle and quality point production down low.

Matt Carroll will be much better next year IF we have a coach that understands how to use his game. If we can get him more involved in receiving kick outs from drivers and we allow him to occasionally handle the ball more he will get into the flow of the game. All one has to do is remember how Bernie figured out how to use him late last year.

We all know Raymond never got a chance to get in sync with his teammates and that was in big part because he had so few minutes playing his primary position. Stop all this bantering about the PLAYERS who will be keeping us down and refocus your anger on the real problem. Fine Ham Biscuit has done nothing but destroy the chemistry this team had at the end of last year. If you are real honest with yourselves you will remember how even AmMo had better production late last year.

With all this said, Bernie was not much of a coach til he somehow got his team to respond to him and respect him. As far as X's and O's and lineups, Bernie didn't always get it or we may have made the playoffs last year. In my opinion, if this current team would have had a top rated head coach we wouldn't even be worrying about who is better between Adam and Matt.

I will predict that AmMo WILL have much improved offensive statistics and WILL contribute to far more wins than losses next year. I also predict that Sean May will be a nice bonus as well. All our players will be better IF WE GET A GOOD TO GREAT HEAD COACH and fire the FHB. We have the talent NOW to be at least a fifth seed in the east. That is of coarse my opinion unless I state facts and say otherwise.

[dav7z]

Why is it Carroll or Morrison, Why not Harrington DA or some of the others.
1st All i hear is how bad of a contract Carroll has OMG it's just a six year FRUNT loaded contract to help us in coming years starting at five milion a year and and droping ever year for the next five . His last two years should be close to a vetran minium contract. Hes a shooter a needed player to open up a zone defence. He has the purest shot on the team . Just for that reason along hes worth the contract we give him .Damn we not paying him to be a all star just to do his job extend the defence. If coach V had played to Carrolls strenths this topic would have never started,
2nd Morrison better than Carroll or Carroll better than Morrison who the hell cares as long as we win. You can't even start to compare the two because Marrison didn't even touch a ball after regular season started .
I will say Morrison cost us more wins than Carroll this year because Morrison never hit the court. The same reasoning goes for May as he never hit the court either.
Can Morrison become better than Carroll [YES] if he gets over the ACL thing which is hard to do [his carer might be over] Do i think it is ,i don't know. Will he be a all star i don't think so . His defence and lack of rebounding and lack of speed . His health issues diabatis and still smoking CAN'T help him at all , He really needs to start taking better care of his body . The same could be said about May.
3rd Who has a the better out look over the next five years . It's no doubt it's clear cut it's Carroll. For reasons allready stated. As for whitch contract is the worst it's Morrisons figure it this way Morrison played zero games this year and made four milliom Carroll played 80 games and made five milion . Carrolls salery is going down while Morrisons is going up . Morrison may never play again . Whitch do i consider to be the worst contract Morrison HANDS DOWN.
All that being said either player could be a key peice to the team . Why does it have to be either ,or ,.both players could be a big help for this team next year. I PREFER TO PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT BELONGS COACH Biscuit V.

[Alex]

Just thought I would bump this to give Matt some respect for his awesome performance tonight. I think he's one of the best spot up shooters in the league, especially in the corners.