Wages of Wins analyzes the Bobcats season

[ziggy]

Its a good read, take a look here --> http://dberri.wordpress.com/2008/04/12/an-expected-leap-in-charlotte-that-never-happened/

[ammofan]

How is getting Morrison and a top lottery pick player back on the team gonna make us worse?
And I dont think Felton is getting WORSE, he has improved alot here at the end of the season. He played good last night @ Indiana....

[Keetch]

Its pretty simple actually Ammofan. Felton played shooting guard most of this season, so his stats are skewed. Wages of Wins neglected to mention that.

Adam Morrison. As a rookie, Morrison was statistically one of the worst players in the NBA; by many barometers, including Wages of Wins system. He was definitely a drag on the team (as mentioned -6.7 wins). That may have improved some this year, but it wouldn't have been all that much better. Adam's shooting percentage in the preseason games he played this year was still 36.3% (8 for 22). That is a killer. Plus he had only 4 rebounds and 1 assist in 70 minutes played. Double whammy. Unfortunately it doesn't get much worse than that in the NBA.

So I suppose that is how he drags the team. Every minute Morrison plays is a minute that a more productive player doesn't.

That doesn't mean you can't root for the man though Ammofan. Do your thing! You're not alone out there.

But I think its clear that Ammo is at best a marginal NBA player struggling to be effective at this level. We'll see, but my personal opinion is not optimistic. I see further struggles and then further injury as Adam tries to match the speed, power and athleticism he'll face every night. Sad to say, but I just don't think he has a body that can sustain at this level. Unfortunately for the Bobcats, he may one day best be remembered for his greatness at Gonzaga.

I was surprised too at the suggestion that rookies don't help much; but actually that's probably right. It takes time for a Rook to blend into a team. For some maybe that happens during the course of their first season; but for many I think it takes longer.

[Mustachio]

Its pretty simple actually Ammofan. Felton played shooting guard most of this season, so his stats are skewed. Wages of Wins neglected to mention that.

Adam Morrison. As a rookie, Morrison was statistically one of the worst players in the NBA; by many barometers, including Wages of Wins system. He was definitely a drag on the team (as mentioned -6.7 wins). That may have improved some this year, but it wouldn't have been all that much better. Adam's shooting percentage in the preseason games he played this year was still 36.3% (8 for 22). That is a killer. Plus he had only 4 rebounds and 1 assist in 70 minutes played. Double whammy. Unfortunately it doesn't get much worse than that in the NBA.

So I suppose that is how he drags the team. Every minute Morrison plays is a minute that a more productive player doesn't.

That doesn't mean you can't root for the man though Ammofan. Do your thing! You're not alone out there.

But I think its clear that Ammo is at best a marginal NBA player struggling to be effective at this level. We'll see, but my personal opinion is not optimistic. I see further struggles and then further injury as Adam tries to match the speed, power and athleticism he'll face every night. Sad to say, but I just don't think he has a body that can sustain at this level. Unfortunately for the Bobcats, he may one day best be remembered for his greatness at Gonzaga.

I was surprised too at the suggestion that rookies don't help much; but actually that's probably right. It takes time for a Rook to blend into a team. For some maybe that happens during the course of their first season; but for many I think it takes longer.


dude thats a pretty scathing comment for a rookie for god sakes. but whatever.

"So I suppose that is how he drags the team. Every minute Morrison plays is a minute that a more productive player doesn't."

I mean Jesus Christ... Matt Carroll played damn near the whole game last night and managed 8 points 4 rebounds 0 assists??? and you people are climbing all over his nuts? If you dont think any other player including othella harrington could do better than that with 36 minutes of play your brain dead. Ryan Hollins was more productive than that last night!!! It is perfectly fine to degrade adam morrison.... but get your priorities straight. Dont just seek him out because you havent liked him from day 1. Look to the guys that are killing us right now. MC

[spectre]

The article said that and Keetch was just elaborating (and was pretty much spot on IMO)...he never said anything about Hammer. That article also said that Hammer had performed worse this year vs. last.

Wages of Wins would have had more credibility if the Idiot had been mentioned and his affect, but I don't really like to judge by stats anyway. Still a good read.

[ammofan]

Its pretty simple actually Ammofan. Felton played shooting guard most of this season, so his stats are skewed. Wages of Wins neglected to mention that.

Adam Morrison. As a rookie, Morrison was statistically one of the worst players in the NBA; by many barometers, including Wages of Wins system. He was definitely a drag on the team (as mentioned -6.7 wins). That may have improved some this year, but it wouldn't have been all that much better. Adam's shooting percentage in the preseason games he played this year was still 36.3% (8 for 22). That is a killer. Plus he had only 4 rebounds and 1 assist in 70 minutes played. Double whammy. Unfortunately it doesn't get much worse than that in the NBA.

So I suppose that is how he drags the team. Every minute Morrison plays is a minute that a more productive player doesn't.

That doesn't mean you can't root for the man though Ammofan. Do your thing! You're not alone out there.

But I think its clear that Ammo is at best a marginal NBA player struggling to be effective at this level. We'll see, but my personal opinion is not optimistic. I see further struggles and then further injury as Adam tries to match the speed, power and athleticism he'll face every night. Sad to say, but I just don't think he has a body that can sustain at this level. Unfortunately for the Bobcats, he may one day best be remembered for his greatness at Gonzaga.

I was surprised too at the suggestion that rookies don't help much; but actually that's probably right. It takes time for a Rook to blend into a team. For some maybe that happens during the course of their first season; but for many I think it takes longer.


I guess another way we could judge Adam would be by looking at last years wins(With Morrison playing to this years wins(Without Adam). The best we can do this year is tie last years total. I dont see how they can say he accounts for a negative amount of wins last year when he doesn't play at all this season and we get less wins then when he was playing...

You have to watch the games and then determine whether or not Adam is doing good or bad or whatever. You cant listen to these special little statistics sites and organization. Yes they are based on the players actual stats BUT they dont tell you about the other things that players(like Adam) give to our team. Morrison also gives us that attitude and fire that we need in order to win...and isn't winning what we want??

[MattD]

does he give us fire to win or does he give us a greasy dude who smokes and chews tobacco who on top of that cannot defend or rebound worth anything.

Adam is wire thin, and he will continue to get pushed around on the boards. But in all seriousness I would love it if he came back on fire, do I think it will happen, I am with Keetch.

In response to Mustachio, you can hate on Carroll, and I am with you on some of it, but at least we have seen him be consistently good for the team previously. He had a bad night, Morrison, Emeka, Gerald, and Jason all have bad nights too.

The difference is, when Jrich has bad nights we lose.

[Keetch]

As the cliche goes; just "keeping it real."

I don't dislike Adam Morrison, nor Matt Carroll. I enjoy watching both of them play actually. It's been fun to have the Ammo icon on the Bobcats and to see what he can give the team at any given time. It's been painful to watch at times to though. As so many have said, I wish the best for both Ammo and Hammer.

I'm sure Ammo wants to succeed in the worse way and will give it everything he has to try to make it happen. I'll be rooting for him, but like I said, the realist in me is pessimistic. Hell, I tried out for my high school team back in the day and discovered I didn't have a "High School Basketball Body," LOL breaking various bones and tearing various tendons trying to make something happen that couldn't. Heh, I didn't get paid millions to find that out though, even though I had been a junior high intramurals beast! I had to get over it.

[CMc$]

1) Why must every analysis of Hammer or Ammo come back to comparison of the two? Because they are white? They are different players.

2) Yes, Adam's rook year was bad. I'm giving him another year before I label him anything. A man of his skill might be able to make noise after all. It doesn't just disappear. Decline, maybe, but it doesn't disappear completely.

[x2pacalypse]

i've come to the conclusion every white player gets compared to every other white player

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s91/jakenorris6/act_jason_williams.jpg
reminds me of
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z259/450020445/webber-dunk1.jpg

[Slam]

Stupid article. It only looks at numbers and crunches them in a pathetic attempt to find cause and result.

The part on EO50 alone puts a Titanic hole in the piece. It doesn't take into consideration his stuggles with Buzz and with the lack of shots and PT he was getting.

Who ever wrote this article needs to go back to preparing peoples income taxes and leave the baseketball to the people that know a little more about it.

[ziggy]

Who ever wrote this article needs to go back to preparing peoples income taxes and leave the baseketball to the people that know a little more about it.

Nice! :biggrin:

[davcbow]

Who ever wrote this article needs to go back to preparing peoples income taxes and leave the baseketball to the people that know a little more about it.


Hell any of us can sit around and compare stat sheets, so whats so special about this this writer anyway? :g:

[ammofan]

davcbow- yeah thats what i was thinking!!

[BIGCatBobcat]

Yeah, I really don't know about all these numbers crunchers. I'm getting a little sick of it actually. These guys Ric Bucher, can't think of any more names but they are out there. Basketball isn't Baseball. It's not a big time numbers game. It's almost like all these guys are in a contest to come up with basketball's version of batting average.
The points made about Ammo, Carroll and Ray all have explanations. Ammo just isn't that good, I like the guy, he can light it up at any time, he just doesn't do it often enough. 2 years and he could turn it all around. Matt hasn't had the confidence or the PT this year, he'll be ok, ok isn't great but it's all we're going to get from the guy. Ray has been playing out of position for most of the 3 years in the league. He needs time and support.
Look, we have a good group of a players, a bad coach and a confused front office. Numbers aren't exactly needed to explain what's happened this year.

[Dunk]

I give stats a lot of credibility based on how much they have done for baseball. Look at the success that took place in Oakland under Billy Beane in the 90's. People discounted what Billy Beane said for years (decades!) and he was right. The Red Sox tried to build teams based on the wrong thing for years (power hitting righties) and it got them nowhere until they added a good lefty bat and pitching instead to account for the dimensions at Fenway. And they did that through statistical analysis.

We can like our players all we want. But if they underperform then they underperform. I'm not saying that these, in particular, are the right statistics. I don't think anyone has truly figured that out for basketball. However, I do think that there are some good conclusions that were made here. In the end, I'd rather have the right combination of players that wins games than someone I think is cool that plays with ' fire in the belly'. We'll grow to like whoever brings a championship to the Queen City.

[TheBeagle]

Other than the fact I thought the guy was overly-critical of Ammo and Raymond, I pretty much can agree with everything else. His analysis of Mek was dead on, as he really is having about the same season as he did last, except for the slight decrease in rebounding and blocks; I can also see the GW argument: after his foot injury in late January or so, he never was the same player, especially on the offensive end. Where per-game stats are concerned, all of his numbers were negatively affected because in at least 4 games, he played at most one full half before having to leave because of injury; even the Sacramento game he got knocked out early in the 3rd. Add that to the games played in from the time of his foot injury to the end of the year: he actually had much better per-game averages than he'll finish the season with officially.

I was confused by his analysis of JD; earlier the guy stated rookies generally stink it up, and yet gives him a back-handed compliment saying he was not a disaster as a 4 this year. It's like he didn't want to admit he was wrong about this particular rookie, so he couldn't give him direct praise....

Also, JRich had a slightly above average season? Wow. I realize his slow start to the season was factored in, but still, that just makes no sense to me ???