I had a horrible realization at the game tonight

[MattD]

Tonight, at the last game of the season, Bob Johnson addressed the crowd. He had Ray and Gerald next to him. He described them as "superstars"

As I am watching Johnsons body language along with MJ's, I began to realize they are really convinced what we have going is eventually going to make us a contender. Frankly I dont think we are remotely close, maybe an 8th seed, but no where near a contender.

I think we are going to lock up Felton and Okafor to long term extensions/contracts and be stuck in mediocrity for several more years. This combo of Felton/Rich/Wallace/Okafor didnt seem to flow this year (blame it on sam vincent all you want, but dallas has a bad coach, though he is inspirational, and still finds ways to work around it)

I think this is going to be a painful offseason for people like me who love to play with the trade machine and try to improve the trade by finding realistic trades that can be made, and for those who want to see the team shaken up (I do I do, the only lock piece for me is Jrich).

My logic tells me he has to be gone, but I also felt that there is a distinct possibility Vincent stays. Somehow with MJ courtside, he must have seen how poorly Vincent coaches, but I am afraid they wont want to give up on him.

This will be an interesting offseason, one that I think is going to make me hurt a little.

[dnbman]

I don't see why that core can't be Eastern Conference elite team. You've got a defensive anchor, a true gunner, a two way wing player, and a dynamic pg. The key is to get them all to gel, which it looks like they're slowly doing.

Something to keep in mind: Arenas and Nash were both guys considered to be not worth keeping around. Of course, they went on to become two of the best pgs in the NBA. Those four guys could do an awful lot with the right coach and the right system.

Get a new coach, and they'll be in much better shape.

As for Vincent, he's gone.

[bizzlecatz]

Call me what you want, but I think the foundation is there also, we need to add and subtract a few pieces here and there, but I believe these guys can complete with the best, but they are going nowhere with Sam Vincent. I agree this offseason is goin to be interesting, but it will work out in favor of the Bobcats. :)

Good night!

[TheBeagle]

I'm actually in agreement with all 3 of you. My inclincation is that Matt is right, that are general core is in place, and there won't be any blockbuster trading. Our improvements will come via draft and a couple veteran FAs.

Now I'm in agreement with DNB and bizzle that I think the core of this team can get some things done with a competent coach that they respect and trust. We definitely need a solid 4 to start alongside Mek to make us contenders, but it's my opinion, we're closer, personnel wise, than some think.

[ohara831]

If, via Draft or trade, we landed a a big that could score, rebound and play Defense, be that a PF and Okafor moving to Center or a Center and Okafor playing PF, then this lineup can work. We need that presence down low who can do all 3 things- especially give us another scoring threat. That alone would take pressure off of the other 4 and open up their games.

[MattD]

well one thing that scares me is that other teams that are in similar situations think that they are almost there too, the reality is, just like us, they're really not in my opinion

[Dead_Real]

I believe we are a coach away from making noise in the East it's shown we can hang with the best squads just need a coach/real system to be in place.

[ohara831]

I believe we are a coach away from making noise in the East it's shown we can hang with the best squads just need a coach/real system to be in place.
_______________________________________________

It is not all the Coach in our case. Yes, to a large degree it was, but the blame also lay with the players not always giving their best effort (Okafor) and mgmnt not pulling the strings on any deals, other than Nazr, to make us better. Everyone in the organization takes some blame, not only the Coach. We need some new blood in the Coaching ranks and player ranks, along with our foundation, and we can then make some noise.

[Mustachio]

ohara come on buddy... you can hardly blame management for not trying to make the team better. they brought in Jrich and Nazr. thats too pretty large moves for a 4th year franchise team. I feel the mngt want to win. i feel like the players REALLY wanna win. but i feel like neither thinks that it can really happen with the current coach.

[Slam]

I think that Vincent will be back next season.

And because of that, EO50 will not be.

[ohara831]

ohara come on buddy... you can hardly blame management for not trying to make the team better. they brought in Jrich and Nazr. thats too pretty large moves for a 4th year franchise team. I feel the mngt want to win. i feel like the players REALLY wanna win. but i feel like neither thinks that it can really happen with the current coach.
________________________________________________

I was referring to the lack of movement around the trade deadline. The J-Rich deal was last Draft, and I do agree that was a solid move. I also liked the Nazr deal. He can be a very very good back up Center. But we need something more than just he and Okafor on the front line if we are going to be competitive.

[ohara831]

I think that Vincent will be back next season.

And because of that, EO50 will not be.
________________________________________________

But a S&T can work to our benefit. Remember, not everyone has watched him like we have this season. I think his value to the rest of the NBA is a little higher than we think. After all, we are the ones who saw him basically "mail it in" for a good 1/2 of the season. If we dangle the carrot, you never know what response you will get. If it is not good enough, we dont make any deals. But you have to listen. Remember, there is a sucker born every day.

[MattD]

I think that Vincent will be back next season.

And because of that, EO50 will not be.


from what i have been reading, I hear thats the truth. I hope when emeka goes somewhere else he slams the crap out of vincent.

[RivenWinner]

While I wasn't expecting big things from us this year, I was hoping to have a semi-decent year. To me, as well as many others out there, the season was a let down.

Hopefully next year we'll be able to have a winning season, but as for being big superstar contenders, well, I give or take a few more years.

The important thing is that fans stay true to the team and weather through these touch times. That's what makes good fans. It's really easy to start yelling and supporting a team that all of the sudden starts doing well. It's during the crappy times when teams need fan support as well.

As for management, well, I dunno. I'm still not sure if Sam is getting the boot or not. But clearly, something needs to be done.

[Keetch]

I've got $500; can I have a minute with Michael Jordan?

[dav7z]

Riven welcome to Bobcatsplanet. Join in and have fun posting about the cats.
I don't expect many changes in the off season . I think we much closer than any of us think.
We a P/F away from being a top four seed in the east . With our core players now . A lot was learned the last twenty games or so .
Felton for one we know can be a very solid point . Im expecting him with his work ethic to average a dubble next season . Like a 18 point 10 assist average wouldn't surprize me at all.
The return of May and Morrison will add much missed debth this year.
We all so learned Rich is that scorer we have been in despret need of.
Felton ,Wallace, Rich , along with Jamison should go along ways with team chemristy.

Ever body on hear wil probely run me off for this one .
Coach Vincent , i noticed got better choaching after the Okafor disagreement. The greats Dean Smith and coach K all most got run out of Carolina after thair first year.
Fired or not i think hes learned alot his rookie year of coaching. The main thing is to listen to his players.

By just adding a p/f and a nice draft pick. and filling the roster with vetrans who can contribute. Keeping coach Vincent or not we should go to the play offs easy.

I think starting Mcinnis cost us more games than any other reason this past year. We played 500 ball after we let him go . I think next year is much brighter than any of us think.

[TheBeagle]

I've got $500; can I have a minute with Michael Jordan?
Let's see....no. $500 would give you the chance to stand 20 feet from him for 45 seconds though! :wink:

[Keetch]

Ever body on hear wil probely run me off for this one .
Coach Vincent , i noticed got better choaching after the Okafor disagreement. The greats Dean Smith and coach K all most got run out of Carolina after thair first year.
Fired or not i think hes learned alot his rookie year of coaching. The main thing is to listen to his players.

By just adding a p/f and a nice draft pick. and filling the roster with vetrans who can contribute. Keeping coach Vincent or not we should go to the play offs easy.

I think starting Mcinnis cost us more games than any other reason this past year. We played 500 ball after we let him go . I think next year is much brighter than any of us think.



Dav7z: I hope we don't have to find out whether you are right or not. For now, Bonnell has said this in his Observations:

"Coach Sam Vincent acknowledged this hasn't been easy for Felton, but he says he's still convinced there are advantages to pairing Felton with another point guard."

If we keep Sam, it will be best for the team if MJ waives all players capable of playing PG alongside Felton.

[dnbman]

I don't really mind playing Felton as a SG, given that he basically plays the position like he plays pg, only running off the ball more. Call Rose a pg and put Felton in at SG for spells, and I'd be perfectly content.

However, putting in driftwood at pg and hoping that Felton thrives at the 2 is/was a horrible mistake. Felton can be a more Tony Parker-esque version of Barbosa. But, he better have a great pg beside him if we do that.

I think he also needs to become better at running the offense first before trying to constantly switch him. He needs to play through adversity and figure out how to make it work.

My biggest problem with Vincent was actually how quickly he would yank Felton from the pg spot-- putting him on the bench or switching him to the 2-- early in the season. That had to hurt his confidence at playing the position. Of course, you have to pull guys if they're not doing what they're supposed to do. But you don't pull a guy five minutes into the first because he commits a TO or makes a stupid foul.

But, really. How much of this is new. It's Felton.

I'll just say this: next year should be the make or break year for Felton. His skill set will be great enough to justify a trade if we go ahead and give him a long term contract. He may not be our pg, but someone will love to have him. So, I don't mind signing him. He's shown me enough this last month to make me believe he can be our starting pg. However, if he doesn't prove it next year, he needs to be traded.

[dav7z]

Felton is a 18 and 11 guy shooting about 45 percent.
Given the chance to prove it . His last three games was a solid 18 and 12 shooting around 48 percent.
If we add a P/F , Get a decent draft pick , The return of May and Morrison. and finish the roster with solid fillers.
We will be a top 4 seat in the east.And everbody will be saying coach Vincent is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[Chef]

The important thing is that fans stay true to the team and weather through these touch times. That's what makes good fans. It's really easy to start yelling and supporting a team that all of the sudden starts doing well. It's during the crappy times when teams need fan support as well.

i don't live near enough to be a season ticket holder or even attend more than a game or two a year, but it would be really cool if we could develop a golden state type fan base during the down times. ticket prices are ridiculously cheap at $10 (plus you can move around to better seats). it would be awesome if we could get a group of hardcores (those who actually follow the game and cheer even when they are not giving away t-shirts or waving VIC cards) to all sit together to bring a unique atmosphere to the arena. that is until next year's playoff run when they raise ticket prices enough and the arena gets filled with mopes.

[davcbow]

We need a BobcatsPlanet section of die hard BobcatsPlanet fans all dressed in simular attire. :g:

[dnbman]

We need a BobcatsPlanet section of die hard BobcatsPlanet fans all dressed in simular attire. :g:


You should all buy "Hell no. Keep Ballin'!" T-Shirts from Ziggy.

I'm definitely game for some BP meet ups next year. I can't attend games regularly, but I'd enjoy choosing a couple of games a year for all of us to go to.

The early Sunday games usually are easy to make. Let's think about it for next year.

[ziggy]

We need a BobcatsPlanet section of die hard BobcatsPlanet fans all dressed in simular attire. :g:


You should all buy "Hell no. Keep Ballin'!" T-Shirts from Ziggy.

I'm definitely game for some BP meet ups next year. I can't attend games regularly, but I'd enjoy choosing a couple of games a year for all of us to go to.

The early Sunday games usually are easy to make. Let's think about it for next year.

We should plan on doing something for this year's draft.

[dnbman]

We should plan on doing something for this year's draft.


I'm interested.

[Keetch]

that sounds pretty cool ya

[CMc$]

We need a BobcatsPlanet section of die hard BobcatsPlanet fans all dressed in simular attire. :g:


You should all buy "Hell no. Keep Ballin'!" T-Shirts from Ziggy.

I'm definitely game for some BP meet ups next year. I can't attend games regularly, but I'd enjoy choosing a couple of games a year for all of us to go to.

The early Sunday games usually are easy to make. Let's think about it for next year.


Great ideas guys. I'd love to pick some games where we could all buy in a section. I'd be cool to be part of a loud section. Or to have a concentrated group to yell "fine ham biscuit" during Sam Vincent's Genius Part Deux (aka 2008-09 season).

[ammofan]

haha, that would be awesome to have it be LOUD in the arena because of the fans for once instead of the music or PA announcer!!

[Muttley]

We need a BobcatsPlanet section of die hard BobcatsPlanet fans all dressed in simular attire. :g:


You should all buy "Hell no. Keep Ballin'!" T-Shirts from Ziggy.

I'm definitely game for some BP meet ups next year. I can't attend games regularly, but I'd enjoy choosing a couple of games a year for all of us to go to.

The early Sunday games usually are easy to make. Let's think about it for next year.


Great ideas guys. I'd love to pick some games where we could all buy in a section. I'd be cool to be part of a loud section. Or to have a concentrated group to yell "fine ham biscuit" during Sam Vincent's Genius Part Deux (aka 2008-09 season).


The "Rock the rooftop" seats are probably the most economically reasonable for what you get.

Also, I'm down for this... so long as none of you are crazy.

[TheBeagle]

We need a BobcatsPlanet section of die hard BobcatsPlanet fans all dressed in simular attire. :g:
There was talk last summer or so about doing this, but nothing ever happened. I can vouch for Keetch that he's not crazy; whether the same can be said of me, well, you'll have to get that from him :biggrin:

I really think it would have to be something upper deck though. I just don't feel comfortable yelling out expletives in the lower bowl cause there's always some kid around. I still feel guilty about yelling out "what the fuck" up top during the Hawks game we won in OT because of a terrible call when there was a family about 10 rows and 1 section over. I didn't get any looks, so hopefully they were talking, plus there was plenty of booing going on, but still....

Like I thought last year, I think it would be a blast!

[davcbow]

Do need to be either loud enough or close enough so Vincent can hear us clearly.... :wink:

[dnbman]

Do need to be either loud enough or close enough so Vincent can hear us clearly.... :wink:


We could messages on our guts!

[Muttley]

Do need to be either loud enough or close enough so Vincent can hear us clearly.... :wink:


We could messages on our guts!


We need 14 guys/gals by my count (to spell out "Fire Sam Vincent").

[Keetch]

LOL Okay can we use my two seats for a kind of gut-rotation thing? We can send down heartfelt messages two at a time!

I think they politely remove you if you're too negative though.

Beagle you're not so crazy...I'll vouch for ya.

I did have my one moment this year when I completely lost it and went ballistic on an official. The expletives and double-handed middle-finger pointing were astonishing to me. LOL when I finally settled down I looked around and people were kind of staring at me. So I sheepishly returned to my seat, curled up and sucked my thumb the rest of the game.

In my mind I can still see the official running backwards up court with the whistle in his mouth staring at me kind of bug eyed.

[Keetch]

I can vouch for Dnbman too. He's actually a pretty good guy :). I'm not sure he approves of foul-mouthed old blow-hards like me though.

[Slam]

from what i have been reading, I hear thats the truth. I hope when emeka goes somewhere else he slams the crap out of vincent.

---------------------

That's not in his nature so I would be very suprised if EO50 ever publically said what a dick Buzz really is.

[dnbman]

foul-mouthed old blow-hards like me though.


Foul-mouthed old blow-hards like you are what make me glad to put my hand over my heart during the pledge of allegiance.

It's a goddamn right-- nay! our duty-- to scream at officials.

Don't tread on me.

[Mustachio]

foul-mouthed old blow-hards like me though.


Foul-mouthed old blow-hards like you are what make me glad to put my hand over my heart during the pledge of allegiance.

It's a goddamn right-- nay! our duty-- to scream at officials.

Don't tread on me.


awesome.

[Muttley]

foul-mouthed old blow-hards like me though.


Foul-mouthed old blow-hards like you are what make me glad to put my hand over my heart during the pledge of allegiance.

It's a goddamn right-- nay! our duty-- to scream at officials.

Don't tread on me.



Yeah. That is awesome.
awesome.

[BIGCatBobcat]

ohara come on buddy... you can hardly blame management for not trying to make the team better. they brought in Jrich and Nazr. thats too pretty large moves for a 4th year franchise team. I feel the mngt want to win. i feel like the players REALLY wanna win. but i feel like neither thinks that it can really happen with the current coach.
________________________________________________

I was referring to the lack of movement around the trade deadline. The J-Rich deal was last Draft, and I do agree that was a solid move. I also liked the Nazr deal. He can be a very very good back up Center. But we need something more than just he and Okafor on the front line if we are going to be competitive.


There are 3 main times when teams make moves, draft day, 2nd month of the season and trade deadline. We made a draft night deal and an early season deal. It's not possible for something to happen at all 3 times and the team to be worth a crap for the late season push. the front office made some solid moves this year, then Bob opened his big mouth and that is all anyone can talk about.