Who is or is not a "Larry Brown type of guy" on our roster?

[ziggy]

From looking at his history, Larry seems to favor the hard nosed defensive type of guys... Not the pretty boys. With that being said, assuming LB gets the gig, who would you see working out well in a LB system and who might be on the outside looking in.

I'll start this off with a few:
Sean May out.

Raymond Felton in

Adam Morrison... I hope in (he'll need to channel his inner Rip Hamilton to survive), but my gut tells me he'll be out.


Thoughts?

[amour217]

From looking at his history, Larry seems to favor the hard nosed defensive type of guys... Not the pretty boys. With that being said, assuming LB gets the gig, who would you see working out well in a LB system and who might be on the outside looking in.

I'll start this off with a few:
Sean May out.

Raymond Felton in

Adam Morrison... I hope in (he'll need to channel his inner Rip Hamilton to survive), but my gut tells me he'll be out.


Thoughts?

I pretty much agree with your list, though I'm waiting to see the verdict on Sean May...I mean if he's not healthy again, he's just useless...it'd be nice to just get rid of him if we somehow could, but his value is zero or next to zero, so it'd be hard. The same goes for Morrison...I don't see him as a Larry Brown guy, yet I don't see how we can get rid of him unless we package him with a draft pick.

The good thing about potentially bringing Larry Brown in is that he's a big name in basketball and brings just a little more notoriety to the Bobcats and our young, talented team. More players might be more apt to come to Charlotte and play for Larry Brown, who knows?

Firing Sam Vincent was a step in the right direction, it lifts a huge weight off this team's shoulders and allows our guys to have a fresh start and to prove themselves anew. Now we have to see if Okafor will want to stay or if not, if we can possibly get anything of value for him. The next step is to really see if we'll get any help from the draft...we all know Larry Brown isn't a fan of rookies unless he's out of options, and there's plenty of options on this team...so it'd be nice to maybe package the pick for another J-Rich-type deal that will bring in a veteran PF or big man. We overloaded at the wing and need to get tougher on the interior, particularly with scoring and rebounding.

I'll tell you this much, it's gonna be an INTERESTING off-season! GO CATS!

[spectre]

LB will like a lot of our guys. Definitely "in":

Felts - warrior
Crash - warrior
Duds - smarts, knows how to position, effort
Hammer - blue collar work ethic
Swish - he showed me he won't just settle as a scorer; worked hard on all aspects

and I think he'll like Mek as he'll be a totally different player. I think Brown will have the smarts to play him correctly, work to get him higher percentage shots and have him focus on his strengths like defense, rebounds and blocks.

Ammo might surprise...last preseason he impressed me with his newfound energy. He'll get credit if he just busts his ass.

Brown played that lazy piece of crap Curry; if May actually does come back and can play he'll get PT as he does have skill. Personally I think May's done tho so it'll be out of his hands.

Nazr will also get PT because of necessity, but I'm not sure just how strong his drive really is. I know his grabs when he gets beat infuriate me.

Davidson...he strikes me as similar to Frye and I know Brown really liked him. Twiggy? He'll like the energy he brings I imagine, but I doubt he gives a lot of PT to him unless he can step up his game.

Rumors have it Brown WANTS to coach us, that he's even said he'd take less money for the opportunity (guy just posted 5 million per...but that's very unsubstantiated). I think he sees a team full of "his" guys.

[spectre]

we all know Larry Brown isn't a fan of rookies unless he's out of options, and there's plenty of options on this team...so it'd be nice to maybe package the pick for another J-Rich-type deal that will bring in a veteran PF or big man.

Portland fans on RealGM are acting like they'd really like to move up and Frye has been thrown out there as well as Jack for basically a pick swap.

Sounds right up our alley doesn't it...esp. since Brown (if he gets the gig) liked him.

[Alex]

Shouldn't we wait until the man becomes our coach before we start talking about these things? I mean I know it's pretty much a done deal but still... I like to be cautious.

[Slam]

If we did bring Brown in, Ammo is the guy that I think would benefit the most.

I think that Brown would like Ammo and I think that Ammo would really, really like Brown.

Both old school, basketball traditionalists. Might be a very good pairing which equals good for us as a team.

P.S. I think that Brown will like Twiggy but he'll be frustrated by him.

[TheBeagle]

I agree with spectre's list. I know we said it last year, what with bringing in a former PG head coach and Phil, but I think Raymond will flourish under Brown. Raymond is sincere in learning and growing at the position, and Brown loves to teach the game, so I see nothing but good things from that relationship...it's just Raymond's going to have to be thick-skinned enough to handle some criticisms, which I don't think will be a problem.

I see him salivating over JRich, Matt and JD. Ideally, Crash would be and probably will be a good fit; the only thing is, he is going to need to tone down his risk-taking defensive style, mainly going for a steal, missing, and leaving the team on a 4 on 5 disadvantage on defense. Also, I don't think this will be a problem; maybe Crash will be taught how best to anticipate passing lanes so as to limit the risks.

I think he could either make or break Mek. We'll have to see, IF Brown is hired and Mek is re-signed, how this goes down. Hopefully LB will bring a legit big-man asst. coach with him.

[fatlever]

If we did bring Brown in, Ammo is the guy that I think would benefit the most.

I think that Brown would like Ammo and I think that Ammo would really, really like Brown.

Both old school, basketball traditionalists. Might be a very good pairing which equals good for us as a team.


agreed.

i think the first reaction is to think, ammo is soft and doesnt play defense, therefore he wont fit with brown. however, i believe brown just may be the type of coach who will get the most out of ammo. it may take a year or so, but in the long run brown could really help ammo. ammo is very smart, high iq player, who is a bball junkie, loves to win and loves to compete. i expect brown to build on those traits while teaching ammo how to get by defensively. its what i initially expected from bernie, but bernie gave ammo way too much freedom year one and it backfired.

[dvdbumpus]

Here are the players that are "in"

Felton (Billups)
J-rich (Hamilton)
Crash (Prince)
Dudley (Maxiell)
D. Anderson


Players that are probably "in"
Matt - due to high energy and desire, but will be frustrated with defensive faults
Adam - similar to Matt's strengths and faults. His effort will be seen and will be appreciated.
Okafor - Defensive presence, and Brown could get maximum out of Sheed.
Nazr - Gritty player that will likely fit in

50/50:
May - Can play and has potential, but could be lazy and Brown will hate that. Will make or break him.

Davidson - Young player that could be a decent backup, or an Amir Johnson that sits.
Hollins - Same thing as Davidson


Probably not:
Boykins - Offensive oriented only.
Othella - Finished.

[tamburello]

If we bring Brown, I guess Hollins and Davidson even won't be re-signed. Also if Sean May doesn't get well in a few months, he could be traded for virtually nothing, because he'll definitely look for stablising his place as coach with short term success. From oldies, Derek Anderson and Earl Boykins may stay.

Larry Brown had most clashes with Allen Iverson in the past. We have no players similar to him. All of our players are "good guys". I don't think there will be such problems.

But as Alex said, we should talk all these after he is officially signed.

[dnbman]

Okafor - Defensive presence, and Brown could get maximum out of Sheed.


Not to mention that Brown turned Ben Wallace into an all-star. If he turned a guy that offensively challenged into a beast, I think he'll do wonders for Okafor's game.

[Slam]

Here are the players that are "in"

Felton (Billups)
J-rich (Hamilton)
Crash (Prince)
Dudley (Maxiell)
D. Anderson


????

Felts is nothing like Billupsa, Swish is nothing like Rip and Dude nothing like Maxiell!!

[dvdbumpus]

????

Felts is nothing like Billupsa, Swish is nothing like Rip and Dude nothing like Maxiell!!

I'll have to disagree with that. Felton is a confident floor leader who's strong and backs down to nobody, he has the potential to truely lock himself as the legit team captain. Swish and Dudley are more stretches but Swish can score anywhere like Hamilton but needs some refining to maximize his potential, and Dudley is a good backup that plays to his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses like his size, that and he has major heart, very tough defender, and is a very smart player, like Maxiell.

[Slam]

I'll have to disagree with that. Felton is a confident floor leader who's strong and backs down to nobody, he has the potential to truely lock himself as the legit team captain. Swish and Dudley are more stretches but Swish can score anywhere like Hamilton but needs some refining to maximize his potential, and Dudley is a good backup that plays to his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses like his size, that and he has major heart, very tough defender, and is a very smart player, like Maxiell.

Felts is a high tempo, franetic PG. Confidence is something that he is lacking, not something that he posses (not to say it wont come with time though). Bullips is a excells more in the half court set and plays with patience and poise.

Swish is nothing like Rip. Rips scores by continually running off screens and scoring off curls. Swish creates his own shot and works more in the post (their bodies are NOTHING alike - hence the different styles).

Maxiell is an athletic freak and a physical monster. Dude is a high BBIQ, low athletic, crafty baller.

The Bobcats three are NOTHING like the Pistons three - other than they play the same positions as each other.

[dav7z]

Slam i disagree with you about Felton only. I think somtimes hes over confident . He all ways seems to want the ball in the forth quarter as if he don't allways trust his team mates . It's all most like he would rather put the win or loss on his shoulders.
L.B. should help shot selection in the 4th a lot.

[ohara831]

Portland fans on RealGM are acting like they'd really like to move up and Frye has been thrown out there as well as Jack for basically a pick swap.

Sounds right up our alley doesn't it...esp. since Brown (if he gets the gig) liked him.
__________________________________________________ _______________

Are they talking about Frye and Jack and the #13 for #8? I'd do that in a heartbeat. But if they are talking about Frye and Jack for #8 and they keep #13, no way.

[Slam]

Slam i disagree with you about Felton only. I think somtimes hes over confident . He all ways seems to want the ball in the forth quarter as if he don't allways trust his team mates . It's all most like he would rather put the win or loss on his shoulders.
L.B. should help shot selection in the 4th a lot.

I see what you are saying dav. He tries to do too much at times, which makes him look confident. But I see his inability to finish a lack of confidence. At times when he drives and looks to absorb contact rather than make the shot. To me, a confident player would look to make the shot and the contact would be secondary.

He showed GREAT improvement though and hopefully Brown will nurture that and help him along.

I still don't think that his game type, playing style or skill set are anything like Billups though!!

[sjcollin]

After watching the press conference, and hearing Larry talk about his respect for A.I. and the way he played the game, I really think that Raymond will be Larry's type of player. We all know how much heart Ray has, and how hard he works, now lets just hope that Larry can help with his decision making and confidence.

[dav7z]

After watching the press conference, and hearing Larry talk about his respect for A.I. and the way he played the game, I really think that Raymond will be Larry's type of player. We all know how much heart Ray has, and how hard he works, now lets just hope that Larry can help with his decision making and confidence.

Slam good points about the contact. agreeded
sicollin The press conference give me the feeling Felts is going to be our next all star . Brown said it all starts with his point and the point is the leader on the court. After listing to Brown made me feel the whole team is going to be better.
I think Morrison in this type of setting will do well if he gets over his ACL.
Okafor and Nazz playing for Lary all ready has to be a plus.
Dudley and Carroll should both get better quickly.
This might just be the perfect place for Brown and this team.

[Slam]

NO ONE can question the heart of Felts. He has an abundance of heart and love for the game. You can't not dig that.


I don't want to piss on the parade, but I can't help but feel what might have been if someone like Brown was brought in last season to build on what BB had made. It's a pity Brown is going to have to spend so much time trying to undo what Vincent did rather than just hit the ground running.

[dav7z]

Im thinking it wont take too long . Or at least hoping it wont. Reason being most of our players came from great winning programs whitch belive in hard work and hustle.
Uconn , Carolina, B.C. N.D. and so on . No first or second year high school players so the transition should be fairly easy . At least i hope

The one thing i do look to see Brown address quickly is adding some beef on the boards through trade or through the draft or free agency. Another is a young back up point guard . My guess some one in the league who is way under valued .

[spectre]

__________________________________________________ _______________

Are they talking about Frye and Jack and the #13 for #8? I'd do that in a heartbeat. But if they are talking about Frye and Jack for #8 and they keep #13, no way.

Frye/Jack/13th for either Harrington, May, Ammo and the 8th. Basically swapping picks and include who we least want.

Portland/Charlotte (http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=783900)

Here's where it was originally suggested (originally meaning in the last week; I've seen this put up before)...not by the OP but by a Blazer fan at the start of the 2nd page:


Anyway, here's a more likely deal:

Frye, Jack and rights to Jordan/McGee for Harrington and the rights to Westbrook.

Bobcats (http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=783900&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=12#) get a backup combo guard in Jack, another bigman in Frye and a project at center. Even with both May and Okafor injured, they'll have decent depth upfront.

Blazers give away two expendables for an expiring contract and Best Attainable Fit from the draft, in Westbrook.

POR-CHA Draft Day Deal (http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=784634)

Here's where the same guy tried to get greedy and include Duds. As you can see those who weighed in for the most part liked the idea.

Brown really liked Channing Frye, and everyone and their cousin knows we need PG depth. It really does seem a no brainer for both teams. We get needed pieces, they trade in quantity for quality.


I don't want to piss on the parade, but I can't help but feel what might have been if someone like Brown was brought in last season to build on what BB had made. It's a pity Brown is going to have to spend so much time trying to undo what Vincent did rather than just hit the ground running.

I'm trying very hard not to dwell on that. Even tho I'm pulling hard for ATL and PHI to win there's a part of me that's downright jealous it's not the Bobcats instead. I think WE could have scared the crap out of Boston...I think WE would be threatening DET with elimination if it was us there instead of them.

Still, hiring Brown has me hoping the idiot coaching us last year didn't set us back as badly as I'd figured. The players are going to work very hard to show it was the idiot instead of them and IMO will play even harder for Brown than they did Bernie. Even better, Brown will give them the tools to do it with.

If we're really lucky we only lost that one year. Right now I'm pretty happy that we might limit the damage to just that.

Slam...think a little bit about "The Idiot - Year 2" and you'll be jumping in front of the lead float. THAT might have caused irreparable damage.

[ohara831]

NO ONE can question the heart of Felts. He has an abundance of heart and love for the game. You can't not dig that.


I don't want to piss on the parade, but I can't help but feel what might have been if someone like Brown was brought in last season to build on what BB had made. It's a pity Brown is going to have to spend so much time trying to undo what Vincent did rather than just hit the ground running.

__________________________________________________ _______________________

That is what I referenced above. MJ said it in the press conference. Apparently MJ approached Larry last season about the job, and Larry and his wife nixed the idea at the time. I dont believe that was made public last season. It gives me pause to reconsider my slamming on mgmnt last year for their judgment. At least they apparently tried for Brown before taking a chance on Vincent.

[Slam]

Slam...think a little bit about "The Idiot - Year 2" and you'll be jumping in front of the lead float. THAT might have caused irreparable damage.

True - one year is better than the two he was signed for and you also brought up a good point of the players wanting to stick it to everyone and show how misguided a lot of Vincents comments were during the season by coming out blazing.

[ohara831]

I heard a good conversation with Stephan A. Smith. He basically went into more detail about why he was so critical of the J-Rich trade. Not because J-Rich is not great, but because he felt that J-Rich and Crash were already quite similar and J-Rich did not bring a whole lot more in skill sets than Crash possesses for us. I understand where he is coming from, I guess. We have all discussed if Crash was traded and J-Rich moved to his more natural position at the SF. Although they are a terrific duo, I do understand they are quite similar. One could go if the deal was right.

To this end, do you think with his favorable Contract and his concussion issues, that Brown might very well think of moving Crash in a major trade for a player(s) and Lottery pick? He may think of moving J-Rich to the SF spot. I know Crash plays terrific Defense, which makes him a Brown kinda guy, but you never know what Larry might want to do with this lineup. I know he will want to put his stamp on it in some way. If he got a quality player(s) and got another Lottery pick, that would allow him to transform the team into "his image".

[Mustachio]

I heard a good conversation with Stephan A. Smith. He basically went into more detail about why he was so critical of the J-Rich trade. Not because J-Rich is not great, but because he felt that J-Rich and Crash were already quite similar and J-Rich did not bring a whole lot more in skill sets than Crash possesses for us. I understand where he is coming from, I guess. We have all discussed if Crash was traded and J-Rich moved to his more natural position at the SF. Although they are a terrific duo, I do understand they are quite similar. One could go if the deal was right.

To this end, do you think with his favorable Contract and his concussion issues, that Brown might very well think of moving Crash in a major trade for a player(s) and Lottery pick? He may think of moving J-Rich to the SF spot. I know Crash plays terrific Defense, which makes him a Brown kinda guy, but you never know what Larry might want to do with this lineup. I know he will want to put his stamp on it in some way. If he got a quality player(s) and got another Lottery pick, that would allow him to transform the team into "his image".



Crash , Felton , Jrich , Dudley , Ammo and Carroll arent going anywhere. for two reasons. 1. All are great ball players with respect and will flourish with good coaching. 2. All have natural ability that LB will see and want to keep. 3. They all are difficult to move in a trade for various reasons.

Okafor, Nazr (probably not), Hollins, Boykins, Harrington, May and Davidson should feel pretty safe. but might wanna get some moving boxes on order, just so they are prepared. I dont think LB will hate any Bobcats work ethic or love of the game. Thats one thing you could never question about the Bobcats. Sam sucked the life out the organization, not on purpose it just kind of drained more than sucked.

LB likes effort and heart more than ability, so he says. I think he will find plenty of that here. The only reason i say those guys could be gone is because they are easier to Cut or Trade... and they are expendable to some degree.

I gotta think Boykins, Harrington and Hollins (as much as it pains my soul) would be the first out the door. Then again with Hollins heart and desire... he may be kept around just because.

[Slam]

Crash , Felton , Jrich , Dudley , Ammo and Carroll arent going anywhere. for two reasons. 1. All are great ball players with respect and will flourish with good coaching. 2. All have natural ability that LB will see and want to keep. 3. They all are difficult to move in a trade for various reasons.

I'm not the greatest when it comes to counting (unless I have my shoes and socks off so I can use my toes) but I'm pretty sure that's more than 2 reasons!!

;)

[Slam]

Coach Bown on EO50:

"Brown heaped praise on Okafor, a benchwarmer under Brown on the bronze medal-winning U.S. Olympic team in 2004.

"He's a great athlete. He's a better kid. He has a thirst to learn," Brown said. "He'll do anything you ask. I think those players like him are so hard to come by. And he's got a huge upside. I don't think he's even come close to where he can be. Anybody with athleticism and the character he has has a chance to get better.""

[Mustachio]

Haha ... ok for 3 reasons.

and thats good to hear about Okafor. He was on the bench for the Olympics because he was 19 or 20 years old and we had several more experienced better players. Its not like it was a slight by Brown. Just logic.

This is gonna be good man. Ive been buzzing around the past couple of days so pumped about this new Bobcats feeling. Whatever you wanna say about the hire. So far its been GREAT for the morale of the organization and fans.

[Muttley]

This is gonna be good man. Ive been buzzing around the past couple of days so pumped about this new Bobcats feeling. Whatever you wanna say about the hire. So far its been GREAT for the morale of the organization and fans.


I'm right there with ya. I just keep thinking that we have an actual coach. Not only that, but he's a damn good one too! I'm really pumped to hear any info I can on what LB's doing, what he's gonna do, etc. with the team here in Charlotte. I can't wait to see who he'll pick up as assistants. I can't wait until 5/20 and 6/26. It's great to feel good about the franchise again and not angst.

[davcbow]

Pumped I cant wait, Im excited. Cant wait to see which direction we are headed in, its bound to be better than what we had. :cool:

[TheBeagle]

I'm right there with ya. I just keep thinking that we have an actual coach. Not only that, but he's a damn good one too! I'm really pumped to hear any info I can on what LB's doing, what he's gonna do, etc. with the team here in Charlotte. I can't wait to see who he'll pick up as assistants. I can't wait until 5/20 and 6/26. It's great to feel good about the franchise again and not angst.
Absolutely Mustachio, Muttley, and d'bow!! I'll admit I was feeling sort of similar to this last summer when we re-signed GW, but this is really something different and special. We've got frikkin' Larry Brown as our coach!!! How insane is that?!? Soon, he'll put his staff together, then the draft, then free agency....lots of excitement and enthusiasm going around, and whodathunkit, we got Bob and MJ to thank for it!! (and, of course, Shelly Brown).

[timang]

good vibes for everybody, good vibes :D

[Slam]

Haha ... ok for 3 reasons.

and thats good to hear about Okafor. He was on the bench for the Olympics because he was 19 or 20 years old and we had several more experienced better players. Its not like it was a slight by Brown. Just logic.

This is gonna be good man. Ive been buzzing around the past couple of days so pumped about this new Bobcats feeling. Whatever you wanna say about the hire. So far its been GREAT for the morale of the organization and fans.

I was just playing with you on the 3 reasons thing.


If I remember right, EO50 actually tweaked his ankle in training camp so he missed out on a lot of the drills and didn't even really suit up for any games.

I hear what you are saying about the buzz. It's been creeping up on me. At first I was really happy about Brown, but then I was worried. Now I'm back to being really excited again.

The buzz I had when we traded for Swish was bigger, much bigger, but this is pretty sweet......................and will only be topped if the lotto gods look after us in about 19 days!!

[Slam]

Edit:

He did sprain his ankle during the USA camp:

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer04/basketball/news/story?id=1847368

[Mustachio]

I was just playing with you on the 3 reasons thing.


If I remember right, EO50 actually tweaked his ankle in training camp so he missed out on a lot of the drills and didn't even really suit up for any games.

I hear what you are saying about the buzz. It's been creeping up on me. At first I was really happy about Brown, but then I was worried. Now I'm back to being really excited again.

The buzz I had when we traded for Swish was bigger, much bigger, but this is pretty sweet......................and will only be topped if the lotto gods look after us in about 19 days!!


Larry Brown and then adding Beasley to the team. yeah that would top this.

[Muttley]

(and, of course, Shelly Brown).

We CANNOT forget to thank Shelly. Really, she made this all possible.

[TheBeagle]

Another in a good run of articles/blogs by Bonnell:

http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2008/05/another-coachs.html

[davcbow]

The best quality coach the charlotte area has ever seen is who we have now. Go Bobcats!!! BCP rules!!!