NBA Coaches

[ohara831]

My goodness. Do some franchises not realize when they have a good thing? Not everyone can win an NBA title, but to have a good Coach and a winning team is something that some fans - like us - crave on a daily basis.

Now that the Suns and Mavs are eliminated, word is that D-Antoni is done in Phoenix and Avery Johnson will be let go in Dallas. Cuban has issues with Johnson and Kerr and D'Antoni don't get along. No, they did not get you the Title, but they are great Coaches and they have proven that over the past few years. You morons should try living a season with a Rookie Coach in over his head! That's maddening! You want an improvement over D-Antoni or Johnson? Well, good luck getting Jackson out of Lakerland or Popavich away from the Spurs. Because off hand, I'm not so sure if there are any others out there any better than D-Antoni and Johnson.

That just pisses me off. They have great Coaches, their players just come up short against 2 other extremely talented teams, and all of a sudden you think your Coach sucks? Hey, I got a tip for you on a recently available Coach. I suggest calling MJ - I am sure he has Sam Vincent's number. Give him a call -morons.

[Slam]

I couldn't agree more ohara.

Take a team like us. We had just cause for bitching and moaning about Vincent and what he did (or more to the point, didn't do) but for a team like the Suns or the Mavs to be as reactionary as they are after losing in the playoffs is just pathetic.

They are the same fans who were riding the nuts of Avery and Mike a year ago and now they want their heads.

Fairweather fans make me sick.

[Muttley]

I couldn't agree more ohara.

Take a team like us. We had just cause for bitching and moaning about Vincent and what he did (or more to the point, didn't do) but for a team like the Suns or the Mavs to be as reactionary as they are after losing in the playoffs is just pathetic.

They are the same fans who were riding the nuts of Avery and Mike a year ago and now they want their heads.

Fairweather fans make me sick.


Seriously, Slam. I don't understand how they're letting these coaches go. Just think, a week ago, we at least partly believed that Sam would be our coach next year and now Dallas and Phoenix are letting those two guys go?? It's nuts! Do they think that they're going to just stumble upon a better coach? Now, especially with all these teams parting ways with their coaches, the market is gonna be even more difficult to wade through to "move up at the position" of head coach.

My guess is that the Coaching hires and fires this offseason will amount to Coaching Trades. That is, with one important exception in Sam Vincent.

[Slam]

They better be careful what they wish for.

The grass is rarely greener on the other side.

[Alex]

Mike D'Antoni is gonna end up in Toronto if he is in fact let go, that will be huge for the Raptors. As for Avery Johnson, to be honest I never thought he was that great of a coach. I think the Mavs can definitely find a better coach than him (don't know about the Suns though).

[ohara831]

Avery Johnson gone. Canned with a .735 winning %. Is that crazy or what? People say that the Dallas job is a prime job with the current players and an owner who will spend $. But if he is crazy enough to fire you for winning at a .735% clip, there is no job security in that job at all. Someone else can have it.

[ohara831]

You know what is more telling? This tells on Jason Kidd. Kidd had issued with Byron Scott, got him canned, and look at Scott now - Coach of the Year. Now, he managed to ruin Avery Johnson. I guess the folks in Jersey are pretty happy with that trade right about now.

Jason Kidd - the Coach Killer

[ohara831]

Now they are talking about Sam Mitchell being likely gone after they get eliminated from the Playoffs. He was Coach of the Year last year! Got his team back into the Playoffs with a #6 seed. And it seems basically that the Owner has a man crush on D'Antoni and will want him after he gets canned by Phoenix. Again, where is the job security AT ALL? These guys run circles around Sam Vincent; they are quality Coaches and should not be fired.

[MattD]

Mike D'Antoni is gonna end up in Toronto if he is in fact let go, that will be huge for the Raptors. As for Avery Johnson, to be honest I never thought he was that great of a coach. I think the Mavs can definitely find a better coach than him (don't know about the Suns though).

I agree 100%

[Muttley]

Now they are talking about Sam Mitchell being likely gone after they get eliminated from the Playoffs. He was Coach of the Year last year! Got his team back into the Playoffs with a #6 seed. And it seems basically that the Owner has a man crush on D'Antoni and will want him after he gets canned by Phoenix. Again, where is the job security AT ALL? These guys run circles around Sam Vincent; they are quality Coaches and should not be fired.

Exactly. I know I've said it before, but to think that we had somewhat assumed that Sam would be back next year after the coaching prowess he had shown, and these quality coaches are going to be fired... I'm not sure I understand it. Think Phil will be let go if the Lakers lose in the Finals?

[tamburello]

D'Antoni was able to carry Phoenix beyond the conference semis only once, although having Nash and Stoudemire, although making great regular season records. That firing is quite normal to me. A fresh blood is definitely needed, because with Shaq, they are no more the old Suns. They need a better half court coach.

Avery Johnson led Mavs to the 67 win season, but what really matters is the playoff wins, not regular season wins. Two consecutive 1st round exits were probably too much for Cuban. Everybody is giving credits to Warriors about the last season's upset, but didn't Avery make any mistakes?

In each sport, anywhere in the world, after failures the first ones to be pay the bill are always coaches. And they usually pay the bill with their jobs.

[Slam]

D'Antoni was able to carry Phoenix beyond the conference semis only once, although having Nash and Stoudemire, although making great regular season records. That firing is quite normal to me. A fresh blood is definitely needed, because with Shaq, they are no more the old Suns. They need a better half court coach.

Avery Johnson led Mavs to the 67 win season, but what really matters is the playoff wins, not regular season wins. Two consecutive 1st round exits were probably too much for Cuban. Everybody is giving credits to Warriors about the last season's upset, but didn't Avery make any mistakes?

In each sport, anywhere in the world, after failures the first ones to be pay the bill are always coaches. And they usually pay the bill with their jobs.

The Suns play fantastic half court ball. Have you never seen Nash play and all of the ball movement? It's not the Suns fault they keep having to come up against the Spurs early on in the playoffs!!

Cuban should fire Dirk for choking LONG before he fires Avery for that Warriors series.

And how did Kidd and Howard play this series?

Cuban tried to buy a title by bringing in Kidd and it blew up in his face, so rather than man up and take the blame, he heaps it on Avery. I'm glad Avery is out of there.

Story goes that Cuban and Avery got into an argument earlier in the season and Cuban was going to fire him all along.

Cuban needs to own the team and let the coach coach. His ego is too big.

[ohara831]

I'll always wonder who pushed for the trade for Jason Kidd. From the beginning, that was not a bright trade at all. Devin Harris is going to be a fine young PG, and Diop is a solid big man off the bench. Did you see just how slow Kidd looked vs CP3? It was down right sad, or comical, depending on your point of view. Harris is around Paul's age and speed and would have hung with him a lot better. I dont know if that was Johnson's decision or Cuban's or both. To me, it really smells of Mark Cuban, but that could have been at Johnson's request. Wonder if we will ever know?

[tamburello]

The Suns play fantastic half court ball. Have you never seen Nash play and all of the ball movement? It's not the Suns fault they keep having to come up against the Spurs early on in the playoffs!!

Cuban should fire Dirk for choking LONG before he fires Avery for that Warriors series.

And how did Kidd and Howard play this series?

Cuban tried to buy a title by bringing in Kidd and it blew up in his face, so rather than man up and take the blame, he heaps it on Avery. I'm glad Avery is out of there.

Story goes that Cuban and Avery got into an argument earlier in the season and Cuban was going to fire him all along.

Cuban needs to own the team and let the coach coach. His ego is too big.

I think that if Tim Duncan hadn't hit that three, everything would have been very different at the moment. But Spurs a real winner team the way that Suns would have never been. And if D'Antoni had remained, Suns would never be. Shaq and rest of the team didn't seem to bound well. They are at a position now that they cannot turn back because of Shaq's contract (unless he retires voluntarily). I don't think they are a good half-court team. Apparently ball movement didn't work, they were relying on Amare so much, but they just hit a hard rock. They have to do something better than heavily relying on personal abilities of Nash and Amare. If they want to be champions, they have to beat Spurs anyway, either at 1st round, or finals. So they have to go to a different direction, with a different minded coach. Actually they haven't fired D'Antoni officially yet, let's see what will happen.

About Johnson, it's true that some specific players played poorly, in both 2007 an 2008, but that doesn't make Johnson completely innocent. As I have already said, the first one to go is always coach, whether he was even betrayed by his players or not. Sad but true, because coaches are the most vulnarable to be punished in this situation. Cuban is approaching the game as more of a businessman, since he is, he spent way too much money for the team and wants to see some concrete successes after buying the team 8 years ago. And as ohara said, we don't even know who really wanted to bring Kidd. And most importantly, can we say they've lost to Hornets because of Kidd trade? They'd probably lose them unless they made the trade, either.

[Slam]

The Suns made boneheaded moves by wayyyyyyyyyyy over paying for Diaw, over paying for Barbosa which handicapped what they could do with their roster and then bringing in Shaq about 4 years too late.

None of those things have anything to do with Mike. He doesn't hand out the contracts, he just has to work with the roster the FO gives him.

You need to watch the Suns play a little. They are a wonderful half court team. Their ball movement and collective BBIQ is 2nd to none. They run the pick and roll/pick and pop better than anyone and they run a series of baseline plays that create great spacing. Why do you think they get so many wide open J's?

[TheBeagle]

Great thread! I've been thinking the same things off and on last night and today. I don't think AJ is as good a coach as his regular season win pct. indicates, but he is better than having to be fired after 3 seasons. Josh "Hash pipe" Howard, Jason Kidd, and Chris Paul are more at blame for this seaon's playoff debacle than AJ. It was already a soft, aging team before Kidd came aboard, the trade just made them that much worse. AJ was fired, I think, because it's much easier to can the coach than overhaul a roster over night, which is what that team needs; their window of opportunity was slammed shut by the Finals fiasco a couple years back. I'd be surprised if they make it back to the playoffs in the next 3-5 years, honestly.

D'Antoni did what he could with what he had, but ultimately, that style of ball is not going to get it done in the playoffs as the Spurs have shown them over and over and over and over... You must commit to the defensive end, no matter how seamless the offense can be at times, though the Spurs really did an even bigger number on the Suns than in years past. Nash was making terrible decisions towards the end of last night's game, and the team as a whole was just out of sync late in the 4th.

Regardless of faults, both of these coaches are among the upper echelon, and I agree, I'm not sure who the owners/GMs of those teams are thinking they're going to find to suddenly turn these franchises around; I think in both cases it's personnel/roster issues, rather than coaching. All I know is, I'm glad we got LB when we did!!!!!

[timang]

i was a fortune-teller on the AJ firing hahaha.



was shocked about the "assumed" firing of mike d'antoni though

[Alex]

Avery Johnson gone. Canned with a .735 winning %. Is that crazy or what? People say that the Dallas job is a prime job with the current players and an owner who will spend $. But if he is crazy enough to fire you for winning at a .735% clip, there is no job security in that job at all. Someone else can have it.

All that is great man but a 23-24 playoff record just won't do it when you average 60 wins in the regular season. I thought that Avery Johnson should of been canned last season when they lost in the first round to Golden State.

By the way Mike D'Antoni and Toronto are an absolutely perfect match. There's no doubt in my mind that the Raptors are gonna win 50 games next season if D'Antoni ends up there. They have the perfect roster for him to implement is awesome style of basketball.

Phoenix however would be idiotic to get rid of him, if anything they should fire Steve Kerr for totally screwing up their style of play. How in the world was Shaq ever a common sense trade for that team? Did anybody go "yes Shaq is gonna fit perfectly in that style of offense" when they got him??? I don't know, props to Kerr for going for it but there's no way that helped the Suns, in fact it hurt them more than it helped them.

[ohara831]

Question:

It seems that Toronto fans have a hard on for D'Antoni. They want Sam Mitchell out, even though he was last year's Coach of the Year and got his team into the Playoffs again this year even with TJ Ford having missed a lot of time with that injury.

We know Larry Brown is here for only a short while. A 4 yr Contract of which he is likely to serve only 2-3. My questions is this: Would you be opposed to the Cats hring Sam Mitchell as Head Asst. Coach with the understanding that the Head Coach job would be his once Larry retires? We then have a young good Coach who can sit and have 2 yrs of tutoring by a Master and then he takes the helm. Now, having been a Coach of the Yr, he may have a difficult time taking an Asst. job, but if he knows Larry will be stepping aside in a couple yrs and the Bobcat job is his, he might take it.

I honestly have not watched many Toronto games other than the Playoffs, so I am not certain why the fans hate him so much. But he must have a certain amount of knowledge to turn that team into a Playoff contender and have some success when one of his main players goes down for a couple months. It may just be D'Antoni envy, I dont know. But the man has to have some skill as a Coach and I think a couple yrs learning something from Larry Brown and developing a relationship with the Bobcat players will serve him well as a future Head Coach of the Bobcats.

Any thoughts on it?

[ziggy]

Question:

We know Larry Brown is here for only a short while. A 4 yr Contract of which he is likely to serve only 2-3. My questions is this: Would you be opposed to the Cats hring Sam Mitchell as Head Asst. Coach with the understanding that the Head Coach job would be his once Larry retires? We then have a young good Coach who can sit and have 2 yrs of tutoring by a Master and then he takes the helm.
Something like that would be the perfect scenario (I've actually been planning on starting a thread on who we could hire as a top assistant with the understanding that the gig is theres once LB is gone :p )
I'd like to throw D'antoni and Avery Johnson into that mix, but I'm almost certain that they will have head coaching opportunities within the next month or two.

[Slam]

I would have no problem at all bringing Smitch in as a head assistant and learning under LB.

The beef that Raps fans have with Smitch is the same beef that all fans have of all coaches - they say he is a bad x's and o's guy.

I don't agree. They show great ball movement and spacing (I actually really enjoy their style of play and their tempo) and he's run more than one play after a time out to win a game for them.

IF Smitch is a bad x's and o's guy (which I doubt. Raps are THE most irrational fans on the planet) then learning under LB for a couple of years would do him the world of good.

I'd love the Smitch here under LB.

[Alex]

Question:

It seems that Toronto fans have a hard on for D'Antoni. They want Sam Mitchell out, even though he was last year's Coach of the Year and got his team into the Playoffs again this year even with TJ Ford having missed a lot of time with that injury.

We know Larry Brown is here for only a short while. A 4 yr Contract of which he is likely to serve only 2-3. My questions is this: Would you be opposed to the Cats hring Sam Mitchell as Head Asst. Coach with the understanding that the Head Coach job would be his once Larry retires? We then have a young good Coach who can sit and have 2 yrs of tutoring by a Master and then he takes the helm. Now, having been a Coach of the Yr, he may have a difficult time taking an Asst. job, but if he knows Larry will be stepping aside in a couple yrs and the Bobcat job is his, he might take it.

I honestly have not watched many Toronto games other than the Playoffs, so I am not certain why the fans hate him so much. But he must have a certain amount of knowledge to turn that team into a Playoff contender and have some success when one of his main players goes down for a couple months. It may just be D'Antoni envy, I dont know. But the man has to have some skill as a Coach and I think a couple yrs learning something from Larry Brown and developing a relationship with the Bobcat players will serve him well as a future Head Coach of the Bobcats.

Any thoughts on it?

I have a few friends who are hardcore Raptors fans. Trust me, you DO NOT want Sam Mitchell anywhere near this team.

[Muttley]

I would have no problem at all bringing Smitch in as a head assistant and learning under LB.

The beef that Raps fans have with Smitch is the same beef that all fans have of all coaches - they say he is a bad x's and o's guy.

I don't agree. They show great ball movement and spacing (I actually really enjoy their style of play and their tempo) and he's run more than one play after a time out to win a game for them.

IF Smitch is a bad x's and o's guy (which I doubt. Raps are THE most irrational fans on the planet) then learning under LB for a couple of years would do him the world of good.

I'd love the Smitch here under LB.

After reading your post, OHara, my initial thought was, "I have nothing against Mitchell, but I wonder what someone closer to the issue has to say about it. Where's SLAM?" Then I read Slam's approval.

I'm sold. Alex, you're gonna have to give a bit more evidence.

I really think that it's almost as important to hire the right assistant as it was to hire Larry Brown. He will bring us to the water, but his successor will get us to drink for years to come. Or we'll just die of thirst.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

I couldn't agree more ohara.

Take a team like us. We had just cause for bitching and moaning about Vincent and what he did (or more to the point, didn't do) but for a team like the Suns or the Mavs to be as reactionary as they are after losing in the playoffs is just pathetic.

They are the same fans who were riding the nuts of Avery and Mike a year ago and now they want their heads.

Fair weather fans make me sick.The real problem with the Mavericks is their players. Dirk is the real detriment to the team. The guy has no back bone and is just too soft. Great talent but terrible mentality for the playoffs. He is looked upon as the team leader and yet his leadership skills are seriously lacking.

Jason Kidd is a great player but I am not so sure the trade was a good fit for Dallas. If it turns out I am wrong then the real problem this year was that the timing of the trade ruined a team who's chemistry was growing. Like the Suns the Mavericks did not have a major improvement after the block buster trade.

The suns also hurt themselves by thinking Shaq was the answer. Shaq is a guy who's talents have faded quite a bit in the last two years. The Suns I feel did not do themselves any favors by trading for Shaq when they did. If they had acquired Shaq after the season it may not have been so bad but the mid season trade did not in the short term make the Suns a better team. A full season together may change that.

D' Antoni will most likely not be fired this year. If however Phoenix doesn't at least get to the Western Conference Finals next season, he probably will be.

[TheBeagle]

Well, since Mitchell was Bernie's top assistant here before the inaugural season started and the Raptors scooped him up, it would make some sense, and even have some symmetry to it, but I don't think it'll work; he probably wouldn't want to take an assistant job, plust LB's made it clear he wants his staff to be composed of people he trusts and knows have the same fundamental ideals in terms of coaching that he does. If he has a good relationship with Mitchell (he was his coach in Indiana, if memory serves), it could happen, but I don't think there's any chance of it happening. Again, I don't know the relationship (coached him in LA and in Indiana), but Mark Jackson would be better, in my opinion, assuming he doesn't get a head coaching job this off-season.

[ohara831]

Well, it wont be Sam Mitchell now, anyway. On the ESPN Insider for the NBA, it says that the Owner (Colangelo?) and Mitchell had their year end meeting, it went well, they are on the same page, and then the owner says "We are not making any Coaching change." Sam Mitchell is a no go. Good for him, and I think too bad for us.

[TarHeelMan]

And even if that changed, Donnie Walsh, who was GM in Indiana when Mitchell was there and thinks highly of him, would look to get him into NY if he gets cold feet on hiring a coach with no experience like Mark Jackson.

[ohara831]

Just read on ESPN where Kelvin Sampson was asked by both Scott Skiles and Larry Brown to join their respective staffs. He chose to go with Skiles. Good. I dont like Sampson. He's a cheater who could not handle the College level job and I sure as hell would not want him on my Bobcat's staff.

[Slam]

Well, it wont be Sam Mitchell now, anyway. On the ESPN Insider for the NBA, it says that the Owner (Colangelo?) and Mitchell had their year end meeting, it went well, they are on the same page, and then the owner says "We are not making any Coaching change." Sam Mitchell is a no go. Good for him, and I think too bad for us.


Vincent had his year end meeting with MJ and that went quite well too.....................until Brown approached him about coaching the Bobcats!!

;)

[spectre]

Vincent had his year end meeting with MJ and that went quite well too.....................until Brown approached him about coaching the Bobcats!!

;)


http://www.charlotte.com/bobcats/story/604354.html

Not according to MJ, but I can certainly see how the Idiot might think so. Hell, according to him there's really no difference between him and Brown on the court.

The Gaston Gazette has the actual quote: (http://www.gastongazette.com/sports/brown_19964___article.html/charlotte_year.html)

"It was two independent decisions," Jordan said of his decisions to fire Vincent and then hire Brown. "My decision with Sam was based on my evaluation, not based on my conversation with Larry. My think-ing was, ‘The shoe is not fitting the foot.' Then we looked at possible solutions and he (Brown) was at the top of the list. When I made that phone call Saturday morning, it was fun."

Colangelo has also publically came out and said Mitchell is safe...Jordan never did that.

[Slam]

http://www.charlotte.com/bobcats/story/604354.html

Not according to MJ, but I can certainly see how the Idiot might think so. Hell, according to him there's really no difference between him and Brown on the court.

The Gaston Gazette has the actual quote: (http://www.gastongazette.com/sports/brown_19964___article.html/charlotte_year.html)

"It was two independent decisions," Jordan said of his decisions to fire Vincent and then hire Brown. "My decision with Sam was based on my evaluation, not based on my conversation with Larry. My think-ing was, ‘The shoe is not fitting the foot.' Then we looked at possible solutions and he (Brown) was at the top of the list. When I made that phone call Saturday morning, it was fun."

Colangelo has also publically came out and said Mitchell is safe...Jordan never did that.

Soooooooooooooooooooo MJ fired Vincent and just had his fingers crossed that Brown would accept the job? You don't think there was any prearranged agreement? Even though coaching jobs were popping up every where and there could have been a chance that Brown might have wound up any where.

[spectre]

Soooooooooooooooooooo MJ fired Vincent and just had his fingers crossed that Brown would accept the job? You don't think there was any prearranged agreement? Even though coaching jobs were popping up every where and there could have been a chance that Brown might have wound up any where.

:shrug:

You're assuming it was either Brown or the Idiot...that's not what Jordan said.

Either Jordan or the Idiot is lying...and I've seen firsthand what the Idiot thinks of as "truth". Remember, according to him he was just starting to gel with the players.

[Alex]

After reading your post, OHara, my initial thought was, "I have nothing against Mitchell, but I wonder what someone closer to the issue has to say about it. Where's SLAM?" Then I read Slam's approval.

I'm sold. Alex, you're gonna have to give a bit more evidence.

I really think that it's almost as important to hire the right assistant as it was to hire Larry Brown. He will bring us to the water, but his successor will get us to drink for years to come. Or we'll just die of thirst.

Raptors fans feel that even though their team has made the playoffs the last two years, it has underachieved once it got there. They absolutely despise the fact that Mitchell uses TJ Ford more than Jose Calderon at PG (sort of like the situation we've had here for years) and they feel that move hurts them, and I totally agree, TJ Ford sucks.

They've given me examples time and time again about how Mitchell totally lost games late because he wasn't able to draw anything up or have the right team on the floor.

Basically Sam Mitchel is an extension of Bernie, because all these things sound like things Bernie did when he coached, but he has a better roster to work with and he has an All Star. Plus, do we really want to have another person named Sam coaching this squad?d

[timang]

no more sams please, please.