9th pick...hmm..

[Dlpz87]

Saw this today, since I was a lazy heathen and didn't go to church, Chad Ford is doing a great pre-draft series on the top lottery guys. This one was on Kevin Love, a guy I've seen picked in many mocks to be drafted by the Bobcats. At first I wasn't sold on him. I thought he was just another Sean May, unbelievable talent but a workout failure. Though this piece kind of made me open my eyes a lil....http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftWatch-080516&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fdraft2008%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumni st%3dford_chad%26page%3dDraftWatch-080516

[ammofan]

Yeah I really like this guy. A hard worker, and a mobile big man. He could be the next best big behind Beasley in this years draft...

[ohara831]

If we are at #8, then opting between Love , Westbrook and Randolph will be a tough question to answer.

[Dlpz87]

Agreed, though I think Love provides the best answer for now out of the three, the others have a ton of potential we could use. Randolph would certainly be interesting with LB as coach to work more on his defense. Westbrook for the same reason also...

[nbamock]

Love.. It's got to be Love unless he's not available. With his recent workouts I can't imagine Love slipping past #8. If for some reason he is drafted #6/#7 then you have to take Jordan or Randolph based on potential alone. I was lucky enough to catch a lot of locally televised LSU games from a buddy that goes to school there, and they had played a lot of games on local cable. I logged into his sling box and was able to watch. Anyhow, the kid is freakishly long. He's a beanpole but he has coordination. He played for a bad team, but the opposing D focused on him, and he made them look bad.

Bottom line is you have a guy in Randolph who was not heavily recruited, and kind of came into his own last year...

OR you have a highly recruited Jordan who had a tremendous senior year of Highschool but a subpar year at TX A&M. I believe he had a bad year because of the coaching. they had no clue how to use him properly.

[Slam]

I was lucky enough to catch a lot of locally televised LSU games from a buddy that goes to school there, and they had played a lot of games on local cable. I logged into his sling box and was able to watch. Anyhow, the kid (Randolph) is freakishly long. He's a beanpole but he has coordination. He played for a bad team, but the opposing D focused on him, and he made them look bad.

Bottom line is you have a guy in Randolph who was not heavily recruited, and kind of came into his own last year...

FINALLY!!

Someone who has actually seen him play!!

Got to tell us more nbamock. How are his post moves? How is his BBIQ? Is he more like Bosh, Prince, Blatche or Camby? How is his motor? Does he look like he could add weight?

[Dlpz87]

Yes, please NBAMock, how does his set of skills compare to Love? What little highlights I've seen of Randolph he seems like a very athletic, lengthy guy. Most of what I"ve seen encompasses his shotblocking, which would be very nice with Mek falling off a little last season in that area...

[MattD]

watch out for speights, seriously. I might be more comfortable with him the Kevin Love. Speights and McGee both are underrated, but I think McGee is more of a project big man.

[nbamock]

FINALLY!!

Someone who has actually seen him play!!

Got to tell us more nbamock. How are his post moves? How is his BBIQ? Is he more like Bosh, Prince, Blatche or Camby? How is his motor? Does he look like he could add weight?

His post moves aren't as polished as his mid range jumper (which was very nice as the season went on). Odd I know, but he didn't have the strength to work very well inside, and tended to get pushed around a lot, but he was very good on the offensive boards and put back dunks...

A lot of his rebounds would come from actually crashing the boards rather than getting solid position and just jumping for it. You wouldn't see him in the picture then all of a sudden you see him angling into the camera shot and he would out jump anyone that was already in the vicinity.

BBall IQ wise I don't know.. I wouldn't say he was the smartest player on the floor, but he was not a liability either. He is definitely a couple years away from contributing on a normal basis.

If I had to compare him I would say a young Kevin Garnett. His dunks, and movements look like Garnett's, although he seems a bit more "lanky" then Garnett. Not saying that's who he will turn out to be by any means, but when I watch him block shots or run up and down the court he looks a lot like Garnett way back when he was 19 years old. As for adding weight.. Probably not much. His legs are about as skinny as ones arms. There was a shot of him next to a cheerleader and she wasn't big by any means (maybe 5'7 115lbs), and she looked kind of thick compared to him. His frame might not let him add weight.

Another weakness of his was if he stepped outside or if the defender could hold him out of his comfort zone (range wise) he became invisible on the floor (on the offensive end). The good thing about it though was I would see him near the 3pt line, someone else takes the shot, then all of a sudden Randolph was in the frame, and putting it back (if the other player missed). He has tremendous quickness for how lanky he looks and moves.

[nbamock]

watch out for speights, seriously. I might be more comfortable with him the Kevin Love. Speights and McGee both are underrated, but I think McGee is more of a project big man.

McGee... Hrm... I am not a fan of his. I am a UNR Alumni and have been a huge fan of theirs since the Faron Hand days... He is TERRIBLE defensively. Even worse 1 on 1 defender than Love. And that's saying something! Most of his blocks would come from the weak side. Nick Fazekas who came out last year was about the same defensively (horrible) but was better offensively. He has a hard time finding a team, and because McGee has more "potential" he will get at least a 3 year rookie deal. Makes no sense to me, because I think Fazekas was 5x the player that McGee was (last year compared to this year) and because McGee is athletic, and 7'0 he will get a better shot. But defensively watch out for McGee... He's been giving up hoops and being pushed around by smaller players all year.

[nbamock]

Yes, please NBAMock, how does his set of skills compare to Love? What little highlights I've seen of Randolph he seems like a very athletic, lengthy guy. Most of what I"ve seen encompasses his shotblocking, which would be very nice with Mek falling off a little last season in that area...


If it's a choice between Love, and Randolph I would take Love. Although Randolph has a higher ceiling than Love does, Love it the type of player that makes a team better instantly. You know what you are going to get with Love. I am sure you all have seen Love play. AMAZING passing ability for a big. If Love was 6'1 200lbs we would be calling him one of the best PG in the draft. Loves boxout ability is the best in this years draft. He has the strength to get position and keep it. He doesn't out jump anyone though don't get me wrong. A lot of his rebounds come from getting position and keeping it and overpowering the opponent... Love has the passing ability of a Vlade Divac, hands of Chris Webber, and BBall IQ of a Kobe Bryant. Now if he had the athleticism of Gerald Wallace then he would be the complete package, but he doesn't.

I THINK that those three qualities outweigh the lack of athletic ability. Putting him on a team like the Bobcats will be a better fit because of the athleticism all around him.

[swetooth9]

who to pick....

[ohara831]

Not feeling too good about Love being there at #9. I hope Westbrook is, but if he's gone, we may be taking Randolph and hope he becomes what they say he can.

[ammofan]

oooooooooooooo gosh!!! cant believe it. #9???? I think we should trade it...

[TheLegend]

oooooooooooooo gosh!!! cant believe it. #9???? I think we should trade it...

Why do you guys think we should trade? I would keep the draft pick though, you'll never know how they end up

[Keetch]

If there can be no Love after all; then I'm just happy to heck and back to settle for Westbrook or Arthur. WOOT.

[MattD]

no mans land. we basically have to take a project if we go with a pf. damn damn damn

[ohara831]

If there can be no Love after all; then I'm just happy to heck and back to settle for Westbrook or Arthur. WOOT.

__________________________________________________ ________________________

I agree. But dont discount Randolph yet. Also, if we can drop back a little to get an extra pick, then McGee would be very nice. An extra late first or early 2nd could prove beneficial. Lawson is being projected into the late 1st or early 2nd. Although I preach against going after too many UNC players, he'd be a great pick to back up Ray if we got him late first or early 2nd. JJ Hickson may last into the early 2nd so we have a shot at him in the 2nd, too. If we managed to get McGee and Hickson as options to play PF and Lawson as a back up PG, I'd be very happy with this draft. NOT AS HAPPY AS IF WE GOT BEASLEY - YOU CHICAGO BASTAR_S!!

[nbamock]

This actually might be good.. The Bulls were interested in Kevin Love, and now that they are #1 there is one less team in the middle of the lottery that needs a PF.

I can see the Bulls happy with Beasley leaving Rose to the Heat.

Minny has a young PG in Foye so They either take the Dwane Wade'esque OJ Mayo to play the 2.

Seattle needs a PG so they take Bayless, and that drops Lopez to the Grizzlies who are VERY unhappy with Warrick playing PF (being that he's not a true PF) and Milicic hasn't panned out (yet?).

NYK has D'antoni who WANTS a scorer. That takes the re-incarnation of Allan Houston (i.e. Eric Gordon) off the board.

Clippers MIGHT take Love.. Gallinari is on the board still as well. Will the Clippers still have Brand after next season? Probably not. So this keeps Love in LALA land, and a good PF in the building after Brand leaves. But.. If they take Gallinari.......

That would leave Milwaukee taking Randolph to fill the hole at SF, and backup PF behind Yi.

Then you have the Bobcats.. DeAndre Jordan? Kevin Love? Anthony Randolph? Russell Westbrook? Darrell Arthur? (I am not a fan of Arthur's)..

[ohara831]

This actually might be good.. The Bulls were interested in Kevin Love, and now that they are #1 there is one less team in the middle of the lottery that needs a PF.

I can see the Bulls happy with Beasley leaving Rose to the Heat.

Minny has a young PG in Foye so They either take the Dwane Wade'esque OJ Mayo to play the 2.

Seattle needs a PG so they take Bayless, and that drops Lopez to the Grizzlies who are VERY unhappy with Warrick playing PF (being that he's not a true PF) and Milicic hasn't panned out (yet?).

NYK has D'antoni who WANTS a scorer. That takes the re-incarnation of Allan Houston (i.e. Eric Gordon) off the board.

Clippers MIGHT take Love.. Gallinari is on the board still as well. Will the Clippers still have Brand after next season? Probably not. So this keeps Love in LALA land, and a good PF in the building after Brand leaves. But.. If they take Gallinari.......

That would leave Milwaukee taking Randolph to fill the hole at SF, and backup PF behind Yi.

Then you have the Bobcats.. DeAndre Jordan? Kevin Love? Anthony Randolph? Russell Westbrook? Darrell Arthur? (I am not a fan of Arthur's)..

__________________________________________________ ___________

Very well stated! Impressive breakdown. You hit the nail on the head. Boy, if Love lasted till #9, we'd be very lucky indeed.

[TheBeagle]

I had this cryptic feeling all along that something like this would happen (somebody behind us would jump up and knock us down one), so that already got me thinking that if we weren't going to get a top 3 pick, it really doesn't matter if we're drafting 8, 9, or 10; it's just all about making the smart, correct pick. Still pisses me off that in our 4th draft lottery (the first one we had the automatic expansion 4th pick) we have yet to move up from where we were slotted, and have dropped twice. That's a little irritating, but not worth whining over. Depending on the predraft camps and a thorough study of Love's knees, he's who I've wanted since early March if not Beasley or Rose. Maybe if he's still on the board when the Clips pick, we could trade up for nothing, since they enjoy doing that sorta thing.

[timang]

choose wisely or trade wisely.

[ohara831]

Love, Westbrook or Randolph. I think it's got to be one of them, unless the pick is traded for a player or later picks. Love is NBA ready, high BBIQ and fills a major need. However, his ceiling is not as high as Randolph who would fill the need as well, but not nearly as NBA ready. Westbrook fills a different role as a PG/SG and lock down defender. Tough decision to make, but I think it will be clearer as the Draft occurs because I expect 2 of those 3 to be gone by #9 and we'll take who is left.

[murphman]

Hey everybody. Long time lurker (over 2 years) first time poster. My two cents is to consider going in a different direction. This season and especially the playoffs I have been very impressed with Rodney Stuckey's performance in Detroit. Although Felton has been moved around too much this past season, I think he is entrenched as the starter. But I also think that like Detroit this year and Golden State last year, getting a backup with loads of potential is a must. Therefore maybe we should consider D.J. Augustin from Texas. Or trade down 2-5 spaces and pick up a 2nd rounder and grab Russell Westbrook from UCLA.

Yes I realize that LB is not very generous with giving rooks PT but if the #3 on the roster is a past his prime vet that they signed only to provide depth and mentor, he may be forced to put the rookie in and let him learn. Giving up a top ten pick for a backup PG is not very sexy but I think it is a top 2 need for this team.

Thoughts?

[Slam]

Thanks nbamock. Interesting that Randolph got most of his boards due to his length and not through positioning or boxing out. I prefer my bigs to establish position on the boards - it helps everyone out. That's the reason we get dominated on the boards even though we have EO50 (a fanstastic rebounder). More often than not EO50 is trying to out rebound 2 or 3 guys because no other Bobcat boxes out. McMay was great at it, but Crash is horrible at it because, like Randolph, he relies on his athletic ability.

I'm starting to cool a little on Randolph.

[Slam]

Welcome to the board murphman!!

I've been high on DJ for sometime and would be more than ok with taking him at #9. We seriously lack depth at the point and drafted DJ would address that straight away.

The other thing I was wondering.....................

IF the Bulls did draft Beasley, would that make Tyrus Thomas available? How about we trade Ammo and a 2nd for TT? That would allow us to address our 2 biggest wholes - a back up PG and an athletic PF to guard the Bosh's/LMA's etc?

Felts - DJ
Swish - Hammer
Crash - Dude
TT - McMay - Davidson
EO50 - Nazzy - Hollins

Thoughts?

[ohara831]

Initial thoughts on our #9 selection


I'm cooling on Randolph and getting my hopes high for either Love or Westbrook.

Westbrook: Can get a good 20-25 min per game playing back up PG and SG. He is a lock down defender which we desperately need. The drawback is you are not likely to have he, Ray, J-Rich on the court at the same time unless Crash is out and we play small ball.

Love: Not as high a ceiling as people like Randolph, but a much more sound sure bet. He has high BBIQ, can pass better than most PGs, has a wealth of low post moves, plays solid Defense and can step out for the NBA 3. What you want in a PF.

**Given his ability, I think Love is the pick IF he gets to #9. With all the talent, he improves us in total as a team. He will help with interior Defense. He can step out for the 3 therefore bringing a Defender with him to help give Okafor more room to work down low. By stepping out and bringing a Defender with him, he clears out to give J-Rich and Crash room to drive and create. Pass it in to him in the low post, and he can find the open J-Rich or Crash for the open jumper. He has a nice arsenal of low post moves. Finally, he gives Ray another good player to find for assists.

As the weeks pass, Westbrook may grow on me more, or even Randolph. I could begin to cool on Love. But right now, I just dont see, at this point, how Love cannot be the best option IF he makes it to us at #9.

[Dlpz87]

Nice synopsis Ohara, and thanks NbaMock for the info on Randolph.

I also will hope and wish and pray that we can get Love. It just seems a better fit for Okafor right now. Randolph might be nice in 3 years with more post moves and positioning. But with Love and his overwhelming size and strength (if he can keep working out that is, if not, just size) opposing defenses will have to pay him attention in the low post and out to the perimeter with his shooting range. This would free Okafor to more 1-on-1 encounters so he can do work (you know, "do work"-Big Black, Rob and Big). We all know how many times Okafor got rejected or just simply could not finish at the basket when he was double teamed.

I don't see Love getting stuffed as much...I still wonder how or why Okafor does get stuffed...I mean, have you seen his arms?

[dav7z]

Welcome to the board murphman!!

I've been high on DJ for sometime and would be more than ok with taking him at #9. We seriously lack depth at the point and drafted DJ would address that straight away.

The other thing I was wondering.....................

IF the Bulls did draft Beasley, would that make Tyrus Thomas available? How about we trade Ammo and a 2nd for TT? That would allow us to address our 2 biggest wholes - a back up PG and an athletic PF to guard the Bosh's/LMA's etc?

Felts - DJ
Swish - Hammer
Crash - Dude
TT - McMay - Davidson
EO50 - Nazzy - Hollins

Thoughts?
Slam i don't like the thought of D. J , at nine may be futher back around twenty five . In my openion Westbrook is futher along for the pro game and has tons more upside.
D.J is too small and wuould end up a inexperianced B.K. Westbrook can play two positions as D.J could only back up Felton hear . I honestly think Lawson would be a better pick than D.J as Lawson is much stronger and has more of a NBA body.
I like the idea of T.T if having the right coaching and starting he has the ability to become a NBA star. But still i would not break the bank on him.Morrison and a second might work.

[spectre]

Right now I'm leaning with Dav on Westbrook over DJ, but I like the TT thought as I mentioned in the other thread.

Personally, I'd just as soon trade out (or back) if we can't do something like that.

[Slam]

Agreed dav, DJ would only be a back up here - unless we couldn't come to terms with Felts over the summer and he wanted to play for the QO. That way, at least we would have a contingency.

DJ really isn't anything like BK. DJ has great range on his J and is a killer. He's always in motion.

I'd be ok with Westbrook though and understand that getting a guy who can play 2 spots is better than getting a guy who can only play 1.

Although if we did draft DJ, we could always play Felts as our SG?






















Only joking.

;)

[ohara831]

Welcome Murphman!

Yeah, I like DJ, but not at #9. I dont want a #9 to be relegated to a back up role for a significant amount of time. I think Westbrook is the better option there. But my preference is for Love. I feel better about Love than I do TT in the Ammo and 2nd trade. But if Love is gone, that is an option, and then drafting Westbrook. I could deal with that. **Question: Do you feel better about TT than Randolph from LSU?

[murphman]

I've been to several (4) mock draft sites including our favorite (Draft Express) and every one of them has DJ going 11th to Indiana. On the ESPN lottery site it had him going no lower than 11th and as high as 7th. I think getting him at 9th is only a very slight reach if that. A top ten pick for a backup PG does not sound good but unless Larry has changed his ways a little, Love or Randolph could be spending 99% of their rookie season and 80% of their sophmore season riding the pine and PF needs for this team are immediate unless May comes back and shocks the world and nobody is holding their breath for that occurance.

Everything I am reading is showing him to be the absolute 2nd best PG in the draft bar none. The biggest question mark is his defense which is a problem for a Larry Brown team.

[ohara831]

Decisions! Decisions! Decisions! Damn, I'm spending too much time and effort trying to figure this out without being paid for it. MJ, where's my check? I need some compensation to get this worked up over doing YOUR job!

But this is just too much fun! OK, gotta take a breather, and then refire the Thread pen.

[Mustachio]

Initial thoughts on our #9 selection


I'm cooling on Randolph and getting my hopes high for either Love or Westbrook.

Westbrook: Can get a good 20-25 min per game playing back up PG and SG. He is a lock down defender which we desperately need. The drawback is you are not likely to have he, Ray, J-Rich on the court at the same time unless Crash is out and we play small ball.

Love: Not as high a ceiling as people like Randolph, but a much more sound sure bet. He has high BBIQ, can pass better than most PGs, has a wealth of low post moves, plays solid Defense and can step out for the NBA 3. What you want in a PF.

**Given his ability, I think Love is the pick IF he gets to #9. With all the talent, he improves us in total as a team. He will help with interior Defense. He can step out for the 3 therefore bringing a Defender with him to help give Okafor more room to work down low. By stepping out and bringing a Defender with him, he clears out to give J-Rich and Crash room to drive and create. Pass it in to him in the low post, and he can find the open J-Rich or Crash for the open jumper. He has a nice arsenal of low post moves. Finally, he gives Ray another good player to find for assists.

As the weeks pass, Westbrook may grow on me more, or even Randolph. I could begin to cool on Love. But right now, I just dont see, at this point, how Love cannot be the best option IF he makes it to us at #9.


i agree with this and will add:

i wasnt exactly jumping for joy at the possibility of landing him about 3 months ago. but now.. everything just seems right.

He seems like about the only rookie in this class that LB would work well with. I just see him as a more immediate help to the Bobcats as anyone in the draft. (at least within reach at #9)

I know his defense is a little suspect... but when you talk about Love you talk about his ability to bring guys out to the 3 point line and either shoot or go by them. so i think with added quickness and continued NBA strength training... i think he could be at the very least adequate at guarding outside the paint.

im torn on whether id like to take the chance on Randolph or Jordan or just do the smart and safe like we always do and take Love.

[Mustachio]

I see Love as at worst a double double kind of guy. 12-15 pts 8-12 boards a night... having two double double guys down low is never really a bad thing. does it make us a champion???

i doubt it.

[MattD]

we need to work hard to try and move up a few spots to try and draft OJ. Some bigboards say he probably is not going to be in the top 4 or 5 now. It will all have to shake out, but I want OJ.

[dav7z]

Hear is what player of personal Buzz Pertson and Rod Higgens thinks about the ninth pick. I agree with Pertson a good player can be picked up in the twentys and early second round.
Hear is thair thoughts.

http://www.nba.com/bobcats/bobcats_lottery_080520.html


Hear is Bonnells thoughts on the loto all all so

http://www.charlotte.com/bobcats/story/633218.html

[ziggy]

Welcome to BobcatsPlanet murphman, 2 years is some serious lurking:p You probably already feel like you know everybody here.

Back on the subject at hand, If we're looking at backup point guards then I'm torn between DJ & Westbrook. DJ is probably more of a pure point, but Westbrook is a super-athletic/high-flying/tomahawk-slamming/Youtube-legend

[ohara831]

Article on ESPN by Chad Ford. Has spoken with several GM's about his Mock Draft version #1. Overwhelmingly, the first thing noted is DeAndre Jordan at #14 will not happen. He will go higher. Says that he knows for a fact that 4 teams have stong interest: Memphis at #5, NY at #6, Charlotte at #9 and Ind at #11.

Also says that Chicago is very serious about taking Rose and the Heat would also consider taking Mayo over Beasley just because that want another Guard who can play PG and Mayo can do that and score. Beasley drops to #3? Wow!

Rumor which is being dismissed by Cavs: Big Z, Varejao and #19 to Ind for O'Neal. Does O'Neal have anything left?

[ohara831]

Noted this on another Thread. Chad Ford article on ESPN. Several GM's have discussed his Mock Draft version 1. He has been told DeAndre jordan is not lasting until #14. He says having spoken with people, 4 teams have very strong interest: Memphis at #5 (didn't they get rights to Gasol's little brother who is a Center?), NY at #6 (but not if Curry is staying and word from insiders say D-Antoni likes Curry, Charlotte at #9 ( to move Okafor to PF? or to replace Okafor after this season?) and Indiana at #11 - makes good sense to me.

Do you really believe MJ would take a chance on a big man who might possibly be ANOTHER Kwame Brown? Well, I think he would be kind of insulated from harsh criticism if if it was LB who after the selection publicly states that DeAndre Jordan is who HE wanted and asked for and MJ merely said OK. I know the final decision will be MJ's, but if LB asked for him, MJ will get cut some slack.

[Slam]

Article on ESPN by Chad Ford. Has spoken with several GM's about his Mock Draft version #1. Overwhelmingly, the first thing noted is DeAndre Jordan at #14 will not happen. He will go higher. Says that he knows for a fact that 4 teams have stong interest: Memphis at #5, NY at #6, Charlotte at #9 and Ind at #11.

Also says that Chicago is very serious about taking Rose and the Heat would also consider taking Mayo over Beasley just because that want another Guard who can play PG and Mayo can do that and score. Beasley drops to #3? Wow!

Rumor which is being dismissed by Cavs: Big Z, Varejao and #19 to Ind for O'Neal. Does O'Neal have anything left?

I said yesterday that I really wouldn't be surpised at all if the NYK's went with Jordan and then spent the next two years shopping Eddie and Z-Bo until they can finally move one of them so they could team the other with the move defensive minded Jordan.

If the Heat pass on Beasley they are stupid.

If the Bulls pass on Beasley they are stupid.

[ohara831]

I said yesterday that I really wouldn't be surpised at all if the NYK's went with Jordan and then spent the next two years shopping Eddie and Z-Bo until they can finally move one of them so they could team the other with the move defensive minded Jordan.

If the Heat pass on Beasley they are stupid.

If the Bulls pass on Beasley they are stupid.

__________________________________________________ __________

Hey Slam, you like Beasley? Yeah, I think he's going to be a terrific PF for years to come. I can understand someone who has a PF and needs a PG more taking Rose. But as good as Mayo may be, I cannot see him being more valuable than Beasley. Good SG's who are also quality Combo Guards are nice, but a stud at PG is the straw that stirs the drink, and a PF who does it all can be a game changer come Playoff time.

[Wallace15]

If we were to draft Randolph, then I think he would spend quick a bit of time on the bench. But, if Love is who we drafted then I could seriously see LB starting him. Love is exactly the kind of player LB loves to have. A player with a High BB IQ, and a "fundamentalist".

But to say who's going to be the better player, I think Randolph will.

[Muttley]

You know, we drafted a kid with high BBIQ lest year in Dudley and he turned out to be a real nice player already in his rookie year. If Love is as smart as he's said to be, then we'd be foolish to not take him at #9 if he was available.

[ohara831]

Getting someone at #9 who will not be a major contributor for 2-3 years is not something I think would be the wisest move for this team right now. With all the disappointment so far, we need to get someone in who will contribute and help improve us this yr. But if we went Jordan, then I dont see Okafor playing a PF role with his lack of any game outside of 5 ft. I think Jordan would be groomed to take over as Center and we would break our necks trying to get Okafor resigned so we could then move him later for a more pressing need. ** Lord, if Okafor played the 4 and Jordan the 5 at the same time, our frontline would be unable to score outside of 5 feet! Egad!!

[swetooth9]

I think we need to think of the "now" more this season, so I'd rather not pick a "long-term project" in this draft...Kevin Love or Russell Westbrook. As much as I love my super-athletic players (believe me...my fav players are: Crash, Josh Smith, Rudy Gay, Amare, Tmac), I think a safe NBA-ready player would be the best choice for us this season with our 1st round pick.

We definitely want to make a big playoff push this season, and with an NBA-ready player from the draft ready to contribute off the get-go, it will make us that much better this upcoming season with the East looking a bit harder to get into the playoffs than it was this season.

[BIGCatBobcat]

I still can't believe we are drafting 9th. I don't know what I want if we don't trade the pick. I'd have to say best player on the board, PG, PF, C, hell even a wing if he's solid and NBA ready.

Is next year the year? Or do we just draft someone with upside and hope he blossoms next year. I say draft to play NOW, whether it's as a back-up, or a starter(I think the only hole in the starting line up we have is C/PF since Mek could do either). I can't handle another 30 win season, if we get blown out by 20-30 by teams like Atlanta, NJ and Memphis again next year I'll lose it.

So am I correct in thinking, first decision is draft philosophy then which player that will still be on the board fits that philosophy? Has anyone got an actual handle(better yet an article/quote) on what MJ, Rod, LB and Buzz think? The thing on the Bobcat's website, as usual, they are very very vague, I know you have to be careful with what you say this time of year but I mean, let us know what you're thinking.

Buzz said:
(On the needs of the Bobcats)
“We have a good nucleus of people. We want to get the best available players we can get. That’s what we want to look for. Whether it’s a point guard, a wing or a power player, we want the best available. We want to mix them into Coach Brown’s system and hopefully we have a very successful season from there.”

So yeah, he's saying best available. But Rod says:

(On if it would be difficult to take a wing player)
“It would be difficult to justify taking a wing player. You better know you can do other things with your roster - maybe that’s where you go the trade avenue.”

and also:
(On if they will draft based on need)
“Need is one thing, but you have to make sure what players are the best players at that possible pick. If that’s duplication, those are the kinds of questions as management you have to address. You’re never handcuffed where you can’t do something different or do certain things to improve your team as opposed to just picking a player in the draft. We’ll have some internal discussions I’m sure leading up to this draft, but when you talk about need, you have to be careful because there could be a very talented player at number nine and you might miss on him.”

Do they want the best player or the player that fits a need or do they know what they want? Have they had a freakin meeting, well with MJ it'd have to be a conference call, where does he summer these days? Are they looking at a particular position? PG, PF, C, does Rod even know if Mek fits in the Center position or PF? Have these guys ever seen a basketball game? How will we know? They won't tell us?

sorry guys, BIGCat's head exploded, we have to clean up his desk now but I know he would have wanted you to read this post so we sent it in anyway.

[spectre]

Best non white player available, but ultimately I'd probably rather trade out.

I know that sounds bad, but history is with me on that one.

[BIGCatBobcat]

Best non white player available, but ultimately I'd probably rather trade out.

I know that sounds bad, but history is with me on that one.

what? We have had 8 total draft picks in our history (7 that we kept) and one guy was white. If you look at every other team, I doubt 1 of the last 6 players to be white. By the way who cares?

8 total right?
2007
1st rounder Brandan Wright traded to GS
1st rounder Jared Dudley
2nd rounder Jermario Davidson
2006
1st rounder Adam Morisson(white)
2nd rounder Ryan Hollins
2005
1st rounder Raymond Felton
1st rounder Sean May(fat)
2004
1st rounder Emeka Okafor

Am I missing something here?

[spectre]

I didn't mean our history...the history of the league in the past 10/15/20 years. How many white American stars have there been in that time frame?

If I'm picking in the lottery (which we are) I'd like to go after a player who has a shot of becoming something special. You can get starters/role players all the time in FA and in trade, but the draft is really the only place to get someone who might develop into a star. We've always seemed to pick based on need (discounting Mek)...why not try a home run at least once?

But at 9th the odds are not as good...so personally I'd trade it.

[Slam]

what? We have had 8 total draft picks in our history (7 that we kept) and one guy was white. If you look at every other team, I doubt 1 of the last 6 players to be white. By the way who cares?

8 total right?
2007
1st rounder Brandan Wright traded to GS
1st rounder Jared Dudley
2nd rounder Jermario Davidson
2006
1st rounder Adam Morisson(white)
2nd rounder Ryan Hollins
2005
1st rounder Raymond Felton
1st rounder Sean May(fat)
2004
1st rounder Emeka Okafor

Am I missing something here?


9 - Bernard Robinson Jr in the 2nd round of the 2004 draft.

[BIGCatBobcat]

9 - Bernard Robinson Jr in the 2nd round of the 2004 draft.

how could I forget?

[ohara831]

To follow up on what I mentioned a couple days ago with DeAndre Jordan being looked at by teams before #14:

Chad Ford gave an update which seems to indicate Jordan has a "promise" from a Top 5 team. Apparently, a couple front office people on teams with Lottery picks are being told by Jordan's agent that they are not scheduling workouts with them. Teams in the Top 5 who need Centers - Minn, Seattle, Memphis

We have spoken about Rose, Augustin,, Bayless, Mayo and Westbrook who all are either PG's or SG's who can play some PG. Ford and Gottlieb at ESPN had a segment where Ford was saying Eric Gordon from Indiana, who also played a good bit of the PG role, dropped a little in recent weeks due to that shooting slump he went through 3/4 thru the season. But many seems to feel that was due to all the distractions and stuff happening with the Coach Kelvin Sampson and his firing and that whole mess. That messed up that whole team.

Right now, he is projected to go at #7. Someone always falls in these drafts, and if he is the one who falls, do you take him at #9? Hell of a talent and can play Combo. He was projected Top 5 for several weeks until recently. I saw him probably 5-6 games this season, and he has a lot of game. He can handle the rock and he creates his own shots. Good defender and has terrific 3 pt range. To me, it's one of those situations where you say when someone with that much talent falls to you, you just cont pass up on him. Could allow us to do somethiang Trade wise to fill another void if we play our cards right.

Thoughts on Eric Gordon?

[ohara831]

Chad Ford is saying DeAndre Jordan seems to have a promise from a Top 5 team. His agent has turned down a couple workouts with other teams in the Lottery in the past couple days.

Someone we have not talked about recently but might should start to is Eric Gordon. Great Combo Guard out of Indiana. Slump 3/4 way thru the year dropped him a little, but I agree that it was largly due to the turmoil on the team with Coach Sampson. He was projected Top 5 for weeks, and now he's at #7-#12 depending on the Mock.

He is a terrific athlete who can play both the PG and SG. 6-4 so he's not a midget at the PG role. Great moves, and wonderful penetrator into the paint. Creates his own moves and has a smooth stroke with 3 pt range. True, ne is not a TRUE PG as someone like Rose or Augustin, but more in the Mayo, Bayless, Westbrook mode of Combo Guard.

Question is, if he drops to #9, can you pass on that kind of talent? I think is Eric Gordon is there at #9, we have to take him. Too good not to grab him there as I think he'd be a steal at #9. Maybe it frees us up to make a trade and fill the PF position?

[MattD]

if he is available, Id absolutely pull the trigger. He is a BEAST.

[Slam]

if he is available, Id absolutely pull the trigger. He is a BEAST.

What makes you think he is a beast? He looked like a lamb at Texas A&M and not very beast like at all!

[x2pacalypse]

maybe there's a way we can get the 1st or 2nd pick without sacrificing our big 4

2008 first/2009 first/morrison for heat 2nd pick

bobcats ...draft beasley in 1st and a combo guard...maybe somebody like courtney lee from WKU

felton/boykins/lee
j-rich/carroll/lee
crash/dudley
beasley =D/may/davidson
okafor/mohammed/hollins

heat- draft a pointguard they desperately need but weren't going to get with the bulls (hopefully) set on rose...therefore maybe they go augustine or westbrook...augustine would be my guess as westbrook is more of a combo guard which they have in dwade
then in the 2nd round they pick up a center like john riek to fill the missing shaq void eventually

augustine/williams
wade/davis
davis/wright
marion/haslem
blount/barron/reik

both teams would benefit my only question is that would we be giving up too much?...but a player like beasley only comes around every so often so in my opinion it is worth it to sacrifice next year's pick to get him

edit * shit oops i had rounder instead of pick, sorry if i came off even more of a dumbass than usual

[spectre]

Not sure where to place this, but:

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Wor...ota--2898/ (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Wor...ota--2898/)


Word on the Street: Love to Minnesota?

by: Jonathan Givony - President
May 27, 2008
McHale in Love with Kevin Love?

Numerous sources with varying ties to Minnesota confirmed to DraftExpress over the past few days that Timberwolves GM Kevin McHale has locked in on UCLA freshman Kevin Love as possibly his favorite prospect in this draft. McHale reportedly likes the skill-level and all-around feel for the game that Love brings to the table, as well as his winning mentality, and sees him as an excellent potential compliment to Al Jefferson in Minnesota’s front-court.

Picking 3rd in this draft, many would consider it a reach to take Love, although numerous advanced statistical formulas have identified him as being the 2nd most productive player in this draft, behind Michael Beasley.

There is already some talk that Minnesota will look to make a trade with Memphis GM Chris Wallace, who would then have the option of fortifying his front-court by drafting Brook Lopez at #3, or swinging for the fences and taking O.J. Mayo. Memphis could offer Minnesota the young prospect of their choice in Kyle Lowry, Hakim Warrick or Javaris Crittenton to help facilitate the deal. Wallace only has two more years left on his contract and needs to make as big a splash as possible in this draft to jump-start Memphis’ rebuilding process, meaning he could be leaning more towards taking Mayo, especially if his team is drafting 5th.

Would it really surprise anyone if McHale was leaning this way?

MJ, call Seattle.

[MattD]

Chad Ford now has us taking Brook Lopez at nine. Ugghgghhghg. Im not high on his game

[Muttley]

Brook at #9?

Wow, how things change quickly. I expect this will continue for the next month as rumors spread.

About the Minnesota thing, it wouldn't surprise me at all. Love's a good prospect. I'd be happy with him in Charlotte if we could somehow guarantee his recently touted work ethic and desire to reach and maintain a higher level (NBA level) of inshapedness (for lack of a better word... athleticism is more of an inate quality to me and something that can't be taught or gained, but can be lost. I don't necessarily see Love as an athletic stand-out, but he could be in great physical shape if he's really been working at it. I digress...)

In any case, I could see Minny and McHale wanting Love.


Spectre, you say call Seattle. I'm not sure what you're implying. I see how we could address some needs from Seattle in a GW/pick-swap trade, but I'm not sure what's going to be more enticing about pick #4 UNLESS Minnesota does not trade down and takes Love at #3. If that happens, then we essentially have a "top 3 pick" in whose left from Rose/Beasley/Mayo - likely OJ, of course. Supposing Minnesota does trade with Memphis, however, then the Grizzlies would surely take the remainder of those 3 guys with the #3 pick.

If we got #4 from the Sonics, and those 3 are already off the board, there are still some nice players, but who do you like?

We could totally screw over Minnesota and draft Love ahead of them. That would be funny. Also, we could see just how bad they wanted him. Probably not bad enough to make a second trade. Anyways, I'd like you to elaborate.

[ohara831]

McHale is not too hot a GM. Can we do something to take advantage of the matter? Minny needs Crash badly. They have Snyder as starting SF avg 7 pts/game and Brewer avg under 6. They stink at SF. They also have a malcontent PF in Antoione Walker for 3more yrs. Would they take Crash and #9 for Walker, Telfair and #3? Telfair would be a very serviceable backup PG, but I do not know if Walker has anything left in the tank or if his attitude is purely poison. Those who have better insight on Walker can elaborate. If he is poison, keep him away. But if he is OK and can work, he would help at the backup PF role in case May is done, Telfair is a very good back up PG for Ray, and then with #3 we likely get Mayo, or perhaps even Beasley.

Insight on Walker? Thoughts on whether this plays to our benefit if Minny would do it?

[spectre]

Spectre, you say call Seattle. I'm not sure what you're implying. I see how we could address some needs from Seattle in a GW/pick-swap trade, but I'm not sure what's going to be more enticing about pick #4 UNLESS Minnesota does not trade down and takes Love at #3. If that happens, then we essentially have a "top 3 pick" in whose left from Rose/Beasley/Mayo - likely OJ, of course. Supposing Minnesota does trade with Memphis, however, then the Grizzlies would surely take the remainder of those 3 guys with the #3 pick.

If we got #4 from the Sonics, and those 3 are already off the board, there are still some nice players, but who do you like?

We could totally screw over Minnesota and draft Love ahead of them. That would be funny. Also, we could see just how bad they wanted him. Probably not bad enough to make a second trade. Anyways, I'd like you to elaborate.

I don't think Memphis targets Mayo but rather someone like Lopez (Draft Express has Lopez going to Minny, Love going to Memphis...and I think those fill their biggest needs). But yeah I'd be real disappointed if we did all that and then didn't get him. I can't tell you how disappointed I'd be if we traded down to 4 just to get Love.

Ohara, I think they'd do that deal for Mek, but I doubt they would for Crash.

[ohara831]

Anything with Okafor has to be a S&T after the Draft. But would that trade benefit us?

Okafor and #9 to Minn
We get Telfair, Walker and the #3.

We would have to be content with Nazr as the starting Center, and then grab either Mayo or Beasley with the pick. I really like Telfair as a backup to Ray, and I know Walker can still score, but I dont know about his attitude of Defense. Likely a back up anway and not a starter. If Beasley was there, I think I'd be tempted to do it. But not if Mayo was there. That would still leave us little on Defense in the paint without Okafor. Nazr and Walker/May does not intimidate people in the paint.

Unfortunately, I think Crash would have to be the piece moved.

[ziggy]

Chad Ford now has us taking Brook Lopez at nine. Ugghgghhghg. Im not high on his game
Ditto That... I think that Brook has huge BUST potential. I don't want to take a chance on him even if he falls to #9.

[MattD]

Anything with Okafor has to be a S&T after the Draft. But would that trade benefit us?

Okafor and #9 to Minn
We get Telfair, Walker and the #3.

We would have to be content with Nazr as the starting Center, and then grab either Mayo or Beasley with the pick. I really like Telfair as a backup to Ray, and I know Walker can still score, but I dont know about his attitude of Defense. Likely a back up anway and not a starter. If Beasley was there, I think I'd be tempted to do it. But not if Mayo was there. That would still leave us little on Defense in the paint without Okafor. Nazr and Walker/May does not intimidate people in the paint.

Unfortunately, I think Crash would have to be the piece moved.

NO. We would get crushed by any team with a decent post player. No inside d. Big problems. As much as I want Mayo, I think it is going to be difficult. I would rather try and move crash for the #3 then Okafor.

More that I realize it, we need Okafor, even if he took nights off and made me want to kick objects sometimes.

[ohara831]

DraftExpress new mock. Has us taking Randolph with #9 and Bill Walker with #38. I dont think I'd be upset if it falls like that. We would just have to get a FA PG to back up Ray. If we dont make any moves, this could be how it goes down.

[ALong13]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=MockDraft-080527

Chad Ford now has Brook Lopez falling to us, I like Brook, I just don't know how much upside he'll have on in his future career. I think he can be a solid player but don't see him as a future all-star, but I wouldn't mind Lopez

[ohara831]

Both HoopsAddict and HoopsReport today have us taking DeAndre Jordan with #9. They say that it is Charlotte who has made the guarentee to Jordan, not a top 5 team. Interesting rumor.

[ALong13]

I have heard the rumor of them promising DeAndre Jordan the same deal a few times too...maybe they can develop him into a very good center. He's got a lot of upside, but will take a year or so before he's starter quality

[Dead_Real]

I'm loving the new Draft Express mock even though we are not taking a point with the second pick I'd be happy as hell with Bill Walker and Anthony Randolph at 9.

[ohara831]

On the "If we trade our pick" Thread, just wondered if you guys would think this is solid for us and for Phoenix. They have an old SF in Grant Hill and Diaw is just a back up. What if we trade Crash to Phoenix for Barbosa and #15. WE have Ray as PG, Barbosa as SG, J-Rich as SF, Okafor as Center, and then #9 and #15 to find our PF and BPA?

I kinda like that idea. Do you? Would Phoenix?

[Dead_Real]

On the "If we trade our pick" Thread, just wondered if you guys would think this is solid for us and for Phoenix. They have an old SF in Grant Hill and Diaw is just a back up. What if we trade Crash to Phoenix for Barbosa and #15. WE have Ray as PG, Barbosa as SG, J-Rich as SF, Okafor as Center, and then #9 and #15 to find our PF and BPA?

I kinda like that idea. Do you? Would Phoenix?
I think Crash would be ideal for them since they would be picking up a similar player that they lost in Marion. I also love the situation for us especially a Barbosa and Felton backcourt. I think they would give opposing teams fits I love the thought of that happening. Also at 9 I'd take Randolph if he's gone Westbrook would be my next choice to fill the back up PG role to Felts (I like DJ Augustin but a bigger point would be a nice change for us) and at 15 our PF in Darrell Arthur if he's there.

Ray/Westbrook
Barbosa/Hammer
Swish/Dude/Ammo
Darrell Arthur/Davidson
Emeka/Nazr/Hollins

With the 38th pick I'd pray that Dorsey falls in our lap.

[MattD]

15 i would take donte greene, or try to move up positions with the combo of the two picks.

[Dead_Real]

Arthor is probably the more true power foward who's more nba ready right now but Greene has more potential especially if he hits the weight room tough call.

[Slam]

Like I said over at RGM ohara, I like the idea of the deal but I think that it leaves us way too open at the wings. Swish and Barbosa are great scorers but really aren't known for their D so I think that we would be abused by other teams and they would run the score up against us.

[ohara831]

True Slam. But that is where we fix that with our two picks. Someone like Westbrook who can lock down, and then a solid PF who can play Defense. I think this is slightly better than the Portland deal, as we are then pretty committed to Frye as the PF and I think we can do better in the Draft.

[Slam]

True Slam. But that is where we fix that with our two picks. Someone like Westbrook who can lock down, and then a solid PF who can play Defense. I think this is slightly better than the Portland deal, as we are then pretty committed to Frye as the PF and I think we can do better in the Draft.

But how do you play Felts, Westbrook, Barbosa and Swish all together?

Four dudes, 2 spots.

[ohara831]

Situational subbing. Since Westbrook can play some PG, put him in and Ray out at times. Barbosa plays the SG and J-Rich the SF. Or sub Westbrook at SG and take our Barbosa for a spell. It's 4 guys and 3 positions. LB is much smarter than Sammy was and I think he would be able to make the subs at the right times. Another alternative is also if we are playing someone who is playing "small-ball" play all 4 with Okafor. That would be very seldom I think, but it would apply at times.

Just think, Westbrook at #9 and Koufous(sp) or JaVale McGee at #15. That gives us a great Combo Guard and a solid Big man who will be able to contribute some this yr. That would be a very good draft. Both of the big men have very good Defensive skills as well, so added to Okafor and we have a strong Defensive interior.

[Slam]

I must admit, it's it's probably a big fault of mine, that I am a traditionalist when it comes to subbing.

I like a 1st unit and a 2nd unit. I like my starters to play the bulk of the mins (35+ each) and the 2nd unit to plug the holes when fatigue/fouls/injrues occur.

I'm not a fan of situational subbing and trying to split mins amongst a group of players.

[ohara831]

Let me show you what I envision as our team. From the Draft, we grab Westbrook at #9, McGee at #15 and Bill Walker at #38. The team, post Crash/Barbosa trade:
PG-Felton / Westbrook / Barbosa
SG-Barbosa / Westbrook / Carroll/ Walker
SF- J-Rich / Dudley/Ammo/Walker
PF - McGee / May / Davidson
C - Okafor / Nazr / Hollins

That is 14 players, and some really quality depth. 3 men capable of handling the PG if injury/foul trouble. Our defensive presence is increased significantly on perimeter with Westbrook and on the interior with McGee. Bill Walker can be the sleeper of the draft if his knees hold up. **If McGee is gone, Kosta Koufous would be solid at #15 and he does play solid defense as well.

I like it. This team can win. I do understand the arguments against it and respect them. But for my money, this team would be solid top to bottom, inside and out.

[Slam]

See, I just think that a starting line up of Felts, Barbosa, Swish and McGee would get torched.

P.S. I think that Walker would be a great replacement for Crash - but he would still be fighting for mins behind Swish, Dude and Ammo at the 3. I think he's a late 1st round pick any ways and will be gone by #38.

Guys who would be there at #38 and have "Crash" type games are Davon Jefferson and a sleeper - who I like a lot - Othella Hunter.

[ohara831]

Will Daniels fits that mold too. That is one I've seen on mocks falling to us with our 2nd also.