Memphis - Charlotte

[ohara831]

This was being discussed on the RealGM Board. Found it very interesting and something I would like very much.

Memphis sends Mike Miller and #5 to Charlotte for Crash and #9.

I love it. Miller is a quality SG and allows J-Rich to play his more natural SF position. Note that over this past season, our most productive lineup had Crash out and Carroll in. Why? Because Crash and J-Rich are too similar. They just dont flow right on the Court. Why else would Charlotte be more productive with Carroll than Crash on the floor?

Then, we are up to #5 in the Draft. A host of options. Maybe Mayo is there. Bayless, Love, Gordon, Randolph? There would be a host of trade options also to allow us to grab the PF we really need.

To me, this has "winner" written all over it for Charlotte. I think Memphis would have some issue with Gay and Crash on the Court at the same time, but many liked the idea apparently.

[Mustachio]

ohara ... sorry buddy. this is the worst option yet.

MIKE MILLER>???? for Crash. are you serious. it would have to be a guarenteed Mayo at #5 and even then i hate it.

not to mention Mike Miller and Crash make about the same amount of money so theres not even any cap relief in this for us.

basically its giving up a potential all star for a has been and 4 lottery spots.

It is a terrible idea as it does nothing to help our current problem of PF and back up PG.


Ray Rich Crash ??? Okafor is the template. unless your filling that hole, or upgrading one of those current players... THEN THERE IS NO NEED TO TRADE!!!!!

you dont lose quality for mediocrity. thats what the Grizzlies do.

WE DONT WANNA THINK LIKE THE GRIZZLIES.

[ReesieNCPantherCatfan1]

Ive got to piggyback with mustachio on this one too, no way. Give me Gay and the 5 for Crash and the 9 and I'll take it (highly unlikely, but slightly possible considering the Gasol giveaway). I think Miller is basically Ammo with better rebounding, and I don't see that it helps us to have another wing. At 6-8 I don't put miller at sg guarding 2's, so he would play the 3 with us.

[amour217]

Heck no...it would weaken our team defensively, IMO.

[MattD]

ohara ... sorry buddy. this is the worst option yet.

MIKE MILLER>???? for Crash. are you serious. it would have to be a guarenteed Mayo at #5 and even then i hate it.

not to mention Mike Miller and Crash make about the same amount of money so theres not even any cap relief in this for us.

basically its giving up a potential all star for a has been and 4 lottery spots.

It is a terrible idea as it does nothing to help our current problem of PF and back up PG.


Ray Rich Crash ??? Okafor is the template. unless your filling that hole, or upgrading one of those current players... THEN THERE IS NO NEED TO TRADE!!!!!

you dont lose quality for mediocrity. thats what the Grizzlies do.

WE DONT WANNA THINK LIKE THE GRIZZLIES.

wow. I disagree with you. Its not the worst idea ever by far. However, I think we should tread carefully around acquiring a shooting guard here, and I think Crash may have more value then Miller. Moving up 4 spots really doesnt get us too much either, as I am willing to bet Bayless, Mayo, Beasely, and Rose will be off the board. Then what?

[spectre]

As always...guarantee me Mayo at the pick and I'm down; otherwise we'd lose way too much defensively.

[ohara831]

Miller is only 28 16.4 pts 3.4 ast salary $8,376,194

Crash is 25 19.4 pts 3.5 ast 6 reb salary is $9,500,000

I dont see Miller as a "has been" at only 28, and his numbers are not bad at all for a poor Memphis team. I think his numbers go up with Charlotte. And I think moving up 4 spots in this Draft can make a ton of difference to this team. And, I cannot get over this horrible feeling I have been having as of late regarding Crash and his health. Honestly, one more wrong landing on the hardwood, and not only can he be out for several games, but he then loses all value to us on the trade market. And if we were a more efficient team with him on the bench last yr and Carroll playing, what makes you think anything will be different this season?

[Slam]

While the $$ aer pretty much the same, Miller has a much shorter deal that Crash's. Keep that in mind.

With that said, like I said on RGM, this would leave us way too thin at the 2 and 3 when it comes to D so I would pass........................unless as Spectre said, Mayo is there at #5.

Even then, with Crash being a BYC player, the $$ between Crash and Miller wouldn't work out.

[ohara831]

I cant find a way to make the $ work anyway. Oh well.

[MattD]

I cant find a way to make the $ work anyway. Oh well.

it would work after june 30th. but by then, draft

[Mustachio]

wow. I disagree with you. Its not the worst idea ever by far. However, I think we should tread carefully around acquiring a shooting guard here, and I think Crash may have more value then Miller. Moving up 4 spots really doesnt get us too much either, as I am willing to bet Bayless, Mayo, Beasely, and Rose will be off the board. Then what?

dude it absolutely is. its not knocking ohara.. he has plenty of good trades. this one is just so far off from helping us.

think about it. without a guarentee that OJ Mayo is at 5 we are essentially trading away Crash straight up for Mike Miller.

which in short would be the worst thing to ever happen to the Bobcats... and that includes Sam Vincent.

If Mayo is at 5... then you can talk about it. but if your gonna take a gamble on any other of the draftees... your counting on Mike Miller being your starting SG and that would make us the worst defensive team in the NBA. and a joke as Mike Miller isnt even as good as Matt Carroll.

It makes sense with Mayo...because you have someone with starting talent and loads of upside. so you lose Crash, send Rich to the 3 and have Mayo as your 2. that makes a little sense at least.

If Mayo is gone... your losing Crash, sending Rich to the 3 and have Mike Miller as your starting 2. Which i can't even see one good thing about that lineup. its slower, older, terrible defensively, and Jrich shoots plenty of 3s by himself... why lose Crash just so we can see Jrich and Mike Miller launch 3's all game.

its just a bad bad bad terrible no good idea. no hard feelings... its just awful.

[MattD]

well it is not trying to fully address our roster problems, what it does do, is move swish to the three, but with miller as i said before, why are we going to draft oj, so we would have to trade oj for a pf. it could work out with more roster movement, but as a stand alone deal, I agree its not terrific.

Could be like when boston traded and got ray allen, everyone said boo, but when they picked up garnett too, everyone thought it was brilliant to get allen too

[ohara831]

I didn't take it personally. I know most dont like the trade. But I really hope that we somehow utilize Crash in a very effective trade. He and J-Rich simply dont work together as our most effective team. And J-Rich is more valuable to us than Crash. And the injury factor. A solid draft pick and 1 effective trade and we can have a team that competes strongly in the Eastern Conf.

[ziggy]

Ohara its actually an interesting idea. I remember Mike Miller lighting us up pretty good last season. He would definitely spread the floor.

If we got Mayo at #5 I'd do it, If we got Lopez at #5 then I would vomit on myself.

In order to make it happen though, I would need some kind of guarantee that there would be no chance that Mike Miller wears that fruity hair restraint while with the Bobcats
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/bobcatsplanet/11nba1902.jpg

[Mustachio]

I didn't take it personally. I know most dont like the trade. But I really hope that we somehow utilize Crash in a very effective trade. He and J-Rich simply dont work together as our most effective team. And J-Rich is more valuable to us than Crash. And the injury factor. A solid draft pick and 1 effective trade and we can have a team that competes strongly in the Eastern Conf.


i understand the injury concern. it is scary knowing that his high flying circus could come crashing down in a second. but we also can't play scared. if it happens it happens. it could happen to anybody and its the only way you can look at it.

I just think that Crash has been good for us and to us. he wants to play here, and he has an amazing contract. I am all for moving him cause its not like we are beating the world with him or anything... but if we move him, I think we need to get more for him than 4 lottery spots and Mike Miller.

Im ok with moving anyone on the team... or all of them. I just wanna get fair return. and besides. I like the back court look of Ray J and Crash.

lets see where the draft takes us and see what Larry can do. If we can't see improvment... abandon ship and start over.

[TheBeagle]

I didn't take it personally. I know most dont like the trade. But I really hope that we somehow utilize Crash in a very effective trade. He and J-Rich simply dont work together as our most effective team. And J-Rich is more valuable to us than Crash. And the injury factor. A solid draft pick and 1 effective trade and we can have a team that competes strongly in the Eastern Conf. I went into more detail on the Jack/Frye thread, but still, I just don't get that. I just never saw any evidence that this is the case. Also, I don't see how their style of play is anything as similar as you and others have made it out to be: JRich has developed into a true shooter and a cutter without the ball; Gerald is a slasher who shoots when he's wide open, and looks for JRich as he is cutting towards the basket. Paul Pierce and Ray Allen are more similar in styles than JR and GW. If you want to trade Gerald because he's injury prone, and this might be the last chance to get any value for him, that I can understand, but wanting him gone because he and Jason don't work well together....based on last season, I'll never understand that myth.

[ohara831]

Beagle:

I know I am not imagining this. Somewhere near the end of the season, there was a brilliant breakdown done of our team. It was either here or on Queen City Hoops. But it detailed the different lineups, how we scored and defended, and our total efficiency. We were much more efficient and successful with Carroll in the lineup as opposed to Crash. This was with several different lineups to compare, and covered basically the entire season up to that point.

Surely someone else here read that breakdown as I think there was a Thread on it in the past somewhere. How do we explain that fact? There has to be some issue of Crash and J-Rich geling, or the entire team geling with Crash in the lineup and the flow of the game with the lineup. But something was holding us back. Maybe it takes a mind smarter than mine to figure it out, but when something looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I tend to think it's a duck.

[ammofan]

Ohara its actually an interesting idea. I remember Mike Miller lighting us up pretty good last season. He would definitely spread the floor.

If we got Mayo at #5 I'd do it, If we got Lopez at #5 then I would vomit on myself.

In order to make it happen though, I would need some kind of guarantee that there would be no chance that Mike Miller wears that fruity hair restraint while with the Bobcats
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w301/bobcatsplanet/11nba1902.jpg

That is worsethan Morrison's hair!!! LOL

[MattD]

have you seen morrison recently. its no longer the larry bird. its just rediculously long greasy nasty now. I dont know to many people with more disgusting looking hair. That said, he was still knocking down his shoots at the shootaround, so if he can play with it, ill take it

[TheBeagle]

Beagle:

I know I am not imagining this. Somewhere near the end of the season, there was a brilliant breakdown done of our team. It was either here or on Queen City Hoops. But it detailed the different lineups, how we scored and defended, and our total efficiency. We were much more efficient and successful with Carroll in the lineup as opposed to Crash. This was with several different lineups to compare, and covered basically the entire season up to that point.

Surely someone else here read that breakdown as I think there was a Thread on it in the past somewhere. How do we explain that fact? There has to be some issue of Crash and J-Rich geling, or the entire team geling with Crash in the lineup and the flow of the game with the lineup. But something was holding us back. Maybe it takes a mind smarter than mine to figure it out, but when something looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I tend to think it's a duck. I can appreciate what you're saying, but the only numbers that are important in the NBA are Ws and Ls, and we weren't any better without Gerald than with him. I'm skeptical of all sorts of scientific formulae as it is, so that's shaky evidence to me.

[dvdbumpus]

I'd be more apt to the trade if in included next years unrestricted 1st round of theirs....

[110oldeast]

You're right about the important numbers being Ws and Ls. And without him overall, we were 9-11, including the Boston game J-Rich accidentally pitched to Ray Allen.

When you take out the McInnis pg games overall, we were 8-7 without Crash.

When you break down the final 25 games after McInnis was cut, we were:

8-4 without Crash

5-8 with Crash (including bad losses to Memphis and Indy who we beat without him).

There is plenty of evidence that we can successfully move on without him ESPECIALLY if he is not going to be utilized at the 4. As a 3, J-Rich and Dudley are both better options b/c you have to respect their shot which helps Felton get into the lane better and create for others on the team better. This trade is not a bad idea as Miller can shoot when open while also create his shot. Furthermore, moving up to 5 gives us a better chance of controlling our pick and it is an overall win-win. I don't see it happening, but I would not be upset if we did this trade and picked up Love or Randolph (depending on his workout) to compliment Okafor.

Dudley is a better individual man on man defender than Crash. Crash is a great gamble guy, but has not shown to be a lock down man to man defender by any means. I would agree that J-Rich and the team flourished in his absence as it allowed us to be put better options at the wing spots. I think he is ideal for the Marion type 4, but if he does not want to play this, it greatly decreases his value, IMO.



I can appreciate what you're saying, but the only numbers that are important in the NBA are Ws and Ls, and we weren't any better without Gerald than with him. I'm skeptical of all sorts of scientific formulae as it is, so that's shaky evidence to me.