The Trade Gerald Wallace thread

[ziggy]

Trading Gerald Wallace seems to work its way into most of other topics, so lets consolidate that discussion here.

Here are few things that we know


Crash is our most exciting player
He is a fan favorite
We all love his electrifying dunks and incredible blocks
Crash gets hurt... A lot :(
Crash has a very tradeable contract

A few things that are up for debate


Crash is a great defender
The team plays better with Gerald out of the lineup
He is not a "Larry Brown type of guy"


So have at it. Should we be looking to deal Gerald?

[GoBobs]

not while there is a possibility he will play better under LB.....I somehow doubt he will be going like 2/9 from three in any games this year

[ziggy]

Playing devil's advocate. My biggest concern with Gerald is can he stay healthy? Because of his style of play he is going to take a bunch of hits and falls each season. That Danny Granger fall or the Mikki Moore elbow both could have been the ones that put him out for a long, long time... So far we've been lucky.

[dav7z]

I think Crash is our best all around player ,With that being said i would trade him in a second because of our team needs . That don't mean we give him away by no means. Hes got all the things teams are looking for including a great contract whitch you don't see often . So with the right offer to fill team, needs a back up point and a starting P/F we have to pull the triger if a offer fills that need. If for some reason we don't get a great offer we keep Crash [nothing lost for sure]

[amour217]

Remember this everyone: even in this team's major doldrums, Crash made the Bobcats absolutely fun to watch. It's undeniable that he is the heart and soul of this team and its leader. He's a great person to have in this community and I can't just right away say "Yes, trade him."

For me, the deal would have to blow us away for us to deal someone of Crash's caliber. If we lose Crash we lose all those intangibles that he brings to our still-youthful team, not to mention what he brings on the court.

[ohara831]

I think we need to do it sooner rather than later. All it takes is one more concussion and he has no trade value at all. I love him, but he can serve our team better by his trade value for us.

[Mustachio]

Remember this everyone: even in this team's major doldrums, Crash made the Bobcats absolutely fun to watch. It's undeniable that he is the heart and soul of this team and its leader. He's a great person to have in this community and I can't just right away say "Yes, trade him."

For me, the deal would have to blow us away for us to deal someone of Crash's caliber. If we lose Crash we lose all those intangibles that he brings to our still-youthful team, not to mention what he brings on the court.


there are so many good points here. Crash has embraced the city more so than any other Bobcat i think. He is setting up charities and getting involved around town. He wants to be here, and hes a borderline all-star talent I think. I love the guy and absolutely do not want to trade him.

That said... if the deal comes along and it helps the team, then you gotta do what you gotta do.

[MattD]

Trading Gerald Wallace seems to work its way into most of other topics, so lets consolidate that discussion here.

Here are few things that we know


Crash is our most exciting player
He is a fan favorite
We all love his electrifying dunks and incredible blocks
Crash gets hurt... A lot :(
Crash has a very tradeable contract

A few things that are up for debate


Crash is a great defender
The team plays better with Gerald out of the lineup
He is not a "Larry Brown type of guy"


So have at it. Should we be looking to deal Gerald?

first off what makes you say that. you really dont know, I dont know, I doubt Gerald knows. Before we make judgements like that, we have to actually see them play and work together.

2nd. You should have put an option in there for if the right deal comes along then yes. That should be the answer, along with every player on this team. The deal doesnt have to be incredible, and we dont have to rush him out. If our team improves, or so it seems we are improving, then yeah, trade him. He is sort of the heart of this team right now, so there is definitely no reason to have a fire sale.

[BIGCatBobcat]

Gerald is my favorite player on the Bobcats and thus in the league. I like his style, i love his talent, i love his work effort, i like the defense. he leads the team, he and J-Rich will be a force if Ray and Okafor/whoever we draft come along. He is so good it's ridiculous. The fact that he was one of the players modeling the jersey in the unveiling i just can't say anything bad about the guy. That said, this is the NBA, big boy league. If the right deal comes along and we are getting more of a sure thing than Gerald then yes. Gerald simply isnt the sure thing we need night in and night out. It better be huge if we were ever to trade him.

[TheBeagle]

Remember this everyone: even in this team's major doldrums, Crash made the Bobcats absolutely fun to watch. It's undeniable that he is the heart and soul of this team and its leader. He's a great person to have in this community and I can't just right away say "Yes, trade him."

For me, the deal would have to blow us away for us to deal someone of Crash's caliber. If we lose Crash we lose all those intangibles that he brings to our still-youthful team, not to mention what he brings on the court. This is my argument in a nice, neat wrapper! Everyone wants to give a metaphorical handjob to JRich for what he did from mid-January on (and he did a damn fine job; MVP of the team for that matter), but everybody seems to have selective amnesia about how Gerald put this team on his back from Game 1 until his foot injury in January, while JRich was getting his bearings straight and getting acclimated and shooting 37% from the field, and 60% from FT. Is this how little we think of the engine of our team? Throw him under the bus before he gets himself run over by one? Maybe it's the smart, business move to make, trading him before he gets hurt beyond repair, and that's why I couldn't be a GM sort; loyalty is EVERYTHING to me, and Gerald's given it to the city and to us fans ten thousand-fold!

And for the millionth time, they were NOT a better team without him, for crying out loud!! They cut Jeff...that's what made this a better team, and by that time, Gerald was already operating at less than 80%. A healthy Gerald is something you don't want any part of trading; trust me! But then, that is the crux. Only for an incredible deal should we trade him.

[ziggy]

first off what makes you say that. you really dont know, I dont know, I doubt Gerald knows. Before we make judgements like that, we have to actually see them play and work together.

2nd. You should have put an option in there for if the right deal comes along then yes. That should be the answer, along with every player on this team. The deal doesnt have to be incredible, and we dont have to rush him out. If our team improves, or so it seems we are improving, then yeah, trade him. He is sort of the heart of this team right now, so there is definitely no reason to have a fire sale.



A few things that are up for debate

He is not a "Larry Brown type of guy"



True, that is something that I don't know. But it is something that is listed as up for debate since the subject has come up quite a bit.

[Dead_Real]

If we some how magically landed OJ Mayo or Eric Gordon in the draft I'd trade Crash without thinking twice for a young but talented PF only the right offer like dav7z mentioned. Like many have stated in here already I loved the fact that he showed he wants to be here last offseason and I LOVE the way he plays the game (I for one am hoping Crash can return to that 2 blocks,2 steals a game stud we saw in 05/06 while playing for a Coach like Larry Brown). But with the good you have the bad with him the way he plays also makes me hate the fact that it usually leads to him having so many nagging injuries over the course of a season.

[dav7z]

Just for the dead season Ziggy i got your back. Crash is a gambler on defence. When he steals the ball he looks good playing the passing lanes . But he gets burn't more often than he steals. Hes all ways playing out of position trying to recover. It's either all or nothing make the big play for a dunk or give up two points. Larry Brown won't stand for that Crash will have to learn to play position defence in this new system???/

[ammofan]

I just dont feel like Gerald can stand not being the main man. Some people dont want to admit it but Jason Richardson is our guy.
Wallace seems to want to be the guy and he knows how to be but he does not know how to handle himself as our second best player. We need a player like...Rasheed Wallace(?)....who has/is playing on a TEAM and already knows how to blend well with a TEAM and knows that he isn't the main man.

[spectre]

I'm back and forth. I really don't want to lose Crash and I'm salivating over what Larry Brown might be able to do with him...but on the flip I know what an experienced mobile PF would do for this squad.

Like Eaton...some scenarios like getting Mayo make it much more easier to stomach. This misc. ideas like Odom for Crash (which I came up with) not so much.

Chad Ford's suggested trade:

Crash/Ammo/May/9th (and I assume Harrington at the least to match salary)

for

Sheed/Prince...and I'd want their 29th (my idea).

After thinking about it I kind of like that trade for us. We get Sheed's exp. and he'll probably re-up after next year for the MLE or thereabouts...saving us probably 7 million bucks in salary. Prince, tho not quite as dynamic, is a better man defender on the perimeter and he's a pretty good scorer. He's also very durable. He's also on a good contract similar to Crash.

[davcbow]

This is my argument in a nice, neat wrapper! Everyone wants to give a metaphorical handjob to JRich for what he did from mid-January on (and he did a damn fine job; MVP of the team for that matter), but everybody seems to have selective amnesia about how Gerald put this team on his back from Game 1 until his foot injury in January, while JRich was getting his bearings straight and getting acclimated and shooting 37% from the field, and 60% from FT. Is this how little we think of the engine of our team? Throw him under the bus before he gets himself run over by one? Maybe it's the smart, business move to make, trading him before he gets hurt beyond repair, and that's why I couldn't be a GM sort; loyalty is EVERYTHING to me, and Gerald's given it to the city and to us fans ten thousand-fold!

And for the millionth time, they were NOT a better team without him, for crying out loud!! They cut Jeff...that's what made this a better team, and by that time, Gerald was already operating at less than 80%. A healthy Gerald is something you don't want any part of trading; trust me! But then, that is the crux. Only for an incredible deal should we trade him.


You have a good arguement there about trading GW before major damage is done but I really would like to see how GW and J-Rich play under the new coaching scheme that we will have this next season. Having said that I wouldn't turn down a great deal in a trade either. :cool:

[Wallace15]

I agree that if the right deal comes along that gives us more than what Gerald can give us then pull the trigger but I think LB can do wonders with the team he have right now(plus whoever we draft or whoever we trade the pick for). So I think before anyone talks about trading Gerald we should see what LB can do with him and the rest of our team.

[MattD]

I just dont feel like Gerald can stand not being the main man. Some people dont want to admit it but Jason Richardson is our guy.
Wallace seems to want to be the guy and he knows how to be but he does not know how to handle himself as our second best player. We need a player like...Rasheed Wallace(?)....who has/is playing on a TEAM and already knows how to blend well with a TEAM and knows that he isn't the main man.

ummm are you serious? Gerald Wallace has no ego. He is very laid back. Where did you get that idea?

The pistons success really is built on chemistry. When a new player is brought in, he is brought into the chemistry. Because they work so well together, there are no egos where egos would be, Rasheed is a fierce competitor, but putting him with the bobcats doesnt equal chemistry. Guys have to like each other and fit in well with each other, and a lot of that chalks up to the main leader, who apparently (and seemingly forcibly) has become the bobcats "leader"

[ammofan]

ummm yes I am serious. I didn't say he had an "ego" and I know he is very laid back and all. I like the guy. I am not againest him. I just have that feeling about Gerald that he wants to be the main man and does not know how to be a "sidekick".
I dont think that is a bad thing as a player. I think that if I were a coach I would love Gerald because of that. I think that he is hurting our current team because he doesn't know how to be a "sidekick" as I said before. I would LOVE it if LB could show him the ways and all that.(You know what i mean)
If LB can do that then keep GW. If Wallace has to play like that or else he wont be effective, than trade him...

Sorry if I offended you MattD......it is MY opinion and I respect yours...It gave me another chance to explain

[MattD]

I just have that feeling about Gerald that he wants to be the main man and does not know how to be a "sidekick".

I think that he is hurting our current team because he doesn't know how to be a "sidekick" as I said before.

First off, you didnt offend me and I hope I didnt offend you, I just think it is a strange idea to have.

Just remember Gerald rode the bench on Sacramento.

there are two statements that I just want to comment on. The first one, i guess explains that your idea of gerald only being a main man purely based off of "feeling" which explains a lot as if you've watched him play or heard him talk, you know that is not the case. (that might have been a bit mean)

Anyways, he isnt the main man because he isnt a takeover type player. His skill set allows him to score quite a bit, but he isnt doing it as the bobcats "main" player. He emphasizes team, he doesnt really like nor do well with the last shot of the game, and he is willing to do whatever it takes to win.

When he was the only player on the bobcats that had the skills to be very effective on the nba level, he assumed the "main" role as all the best players on teams do. I think he just as easily shed that when Jrich came on and they shared in the scoring load. Gerald was never the sole focus of the offense when Jrich was here, yet he still managed to perform better.

As far as players who WANT to be the main man, that has to go to Raymond Felton, who manages to pull up for a shitty pull up every buzzer beater and just tries to do way to much.

As far as the second statement goes, in someways, he doesnt have someone to be a sidekick too. Jrich is good, but Gerald and Jrich are sort of equivalent rather then superior and inferiors talent wise, each does a different thing in a unique way.

Now as far as the offense goes and adapting to the offense, Gerald and Jrich didnt mesh well together later in the season, as Geralds ball-heavy style of driving sort of cogged the whole "offense" we ran.

Blame that on Gerald, blame it on Vincent, I dont know, but I dont think that has to do with Gerald trying to be the man on the team, I think it has to do with him trying to find a way to be productive and help the team score and win overall.

But hey, thats my opinion.

[Jonathanmartin7]

I take it nobody here thinks that JRich is more tradeable because his salary is so much higher. J has a better offensive game, G a better Deffesive. If we are talking about doing this on or before the draft then we would have to do it with G. If we wait and come out with someone in the draft that is going to light it up regularly then send J and his money somewhere else. I'm really not all that impressed with him so far. At least no more than anybody else. I mean lets face it the whole team has been VERY bad since being created. Yes JRich had half of a year worth typing about last year. G didn't have a bad one, but I don't think he was as good as he was the year before, and didn't improve as much as expceted. Then again that was with Sam coaching(or at least he had the job as a coach)not LB. Under Larry there should be a great improvement on the defense.

I can see Raymond and Gerald trapping the ball and getting steals like crazy....unless ofcoarse we send Gerald packing.

[Icky Thump]

The whole thing with Gerald is that he is a talented player, with a great contract, in a position where we are somewhat solid even without him, and he has some injury concerns. Add that all up and you have a great trade candidate. He is probably would yield the highest return of players we would actually trade.

HOWEVER, considering the positives already mentioned community work, attitude, etc. etc. I wouldn't WANT to trade him unless it was just that good of a deal for us.

[mrtarheel]

That is why I say we keep him. The players began to come together as a team last year. When Gerald got hurt everyone knew they had to step up their game. With this being sad I say we trade the 9th pick for Charlie V. All we need is someone who can score and guard the pf position. Okafor and Wallace will supply the D while J rich sets up shop on the outside, Felts driving to the hole, Charlie V with a sweet jumper that extends to the other 3 pt. line opposite j rich, wallace for the alley hoops and Okafor for all the garbage baskets. With that done we would have to work on our bench. Next years first or this years 2nd and Harrington for Telfair and Corey Brewer in Minn. or for Crittenton or Lowry and Warrick. Maybe even give up Ammo and this years 2nd for those picks if not even trade him to Portland for Jack and Frye. This sures up our bench so even if we had injuries we would have depth at all positions.

[iggypop123]

im an outsider, no not a troll, anyways if gerald wallace or crash is traded what about a trade for lamar odom. the reason i say this is that when larry brown coached the usa team he was asked who his best player was with players like melo and others there and he said Odom no doubt. he loves odom and feels he is underrated. i know this trade was on the table last offseason so why not revisit it. what do you guys think? odom and memphis 2nd rounder for gerald wallace

[TheBeagle]

First off, you didnt offend me and I hope I didnt offend you, I just think it is a strange idea to have.

Just remember Gerald rode the bench on Sacramento.

there are two statements that I just want to comment on. The first one, i guess explains that your idea of gerald only being a main man purely based off of "feeling" which explains a lot as if you've watched him play or heard him talk, you know that is not the case. (that might have been a bit mean)

Anyways, he isnt the main man because he isnt a takeover type player. His skill set allows him to score quite a bit, but he isnt doing it as the bobcats "main" player. He emphasizes team, he doesnt really like nor do well with the last shot of the game, and he is willing to do whatever it takes to win.

When he was the only player on the bobcats that had the skills to be very effective on the nba level, he assumed the "main" role as all the best players on teams do. I think he just as easily shed that when Jrich came on and they shared in the scoring load. Gerald was never the sole focus of the offense when Jrich was here, yet he still managed to perform better.

As far as players who WANT to be the main man, that has to go to Raymond Felton, who manages to pull up for a shitty pull up every buzzer beater and just tries to do way to much.

As far as the second statement goes, in someways, he doesnt have someone to be a sidekick too. Jrich is good, but Gerald and Jrich are sort of equivalent rather then superior and inferiors talent wise, each does a different thing in a unique way.

Now as far as the offense goes and adapting to the offense, Gerald and Jrich didnt mesh well together later in the season, as Geralds ball-heavy style of driving sort of cogged the whole "offense" we ran.

Blame that on Gerald, blame it on Vincent, I dont know, but I dont think that has to do with Gerald trying to be the man on the team, I think it has to do with him trying to find a way to be productive and help the team score and win overall.

But hey, thats my opinion. This is much truer to the fact than having to worry about Gerald reluctantly giving up "main man" status. Like Matt says, it was a role he probably took up out of necessity and was forced to because the struggling and inconsistent play of JRich of Nov., Dec., and early Jan. The more talent we surround him with, and coaching is definitely a huge part of that, the more efficient he becomes: count on it!

[MattD]

im an outsider, no not a troll, anyways if gerald wallace or crash is traded what about a trade for lamar odom. the reason i say this is that when larry brown coached the usa team he was asked who his best player was with players like melo and others there and he said Odom no doubt. he loves odom and feels he is underrated. i know this trade was on the table last offseason so why not revisit it. what do you guys think? odom and memphis 2nd rounder for gerald wallace

I would do it in a heartbeat to be honest

[tamburello]

In 2006-07 season, he shot 1.7 three per game, in 2007-08 he shot 3.6 three pointers. That's why I'm saying we should trade him if we'd able to arrange a good trade. His value is high now and contract is great.

After the concussion, he said that he'll no longer be a hustle player as he was before. If he doesn't hustle, he's nothing. He's not a Kobe Bryant, he cannot depend on his jumpshots. He's shooting too much from outside, his isolation games are useless. He's a stepping stone on our offense. And yes, for exapmle if we can get Lamar Odom back in a trade, I send him to LA without thinking second time.

[iggypop123]

any more thoughts on my trade idea? its a win win for both teams in my view.

[spectre]

any more thoughts on my trade idea? its a win win for both teams in my view.

http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/vb/showthread.php?p=90473&highlight=odom#post90473


I've long suspected that we're going to trade Crash for a vet PF...in fact I have a "heard it here first" kind of bet with Slam...Crash for Odom. To me it makes all kinds of sense BB wise, and you know Kupchak/Brown/Jordan would work with each other.

:wink:

I do have a suspicion Chad Ford's idea has at least as good if not better shot however, mainly because of Brown's past relationship with Sheed & Tay.

Good stuff about the Olympics...didn't know that one.

[110oldeast]

THIS part of the list is huge for many posters and fans, b/c the reality is that Crash is NOT the leader nor the heart and soul of the actual TEAM. He doesn't even want to be. What he is, however, is the heart and soul of the FANBASE. All objectivity flies out the door when he comes up, b/c of the things below.

A 32-50 team doesn't go a last second Jason Richardson throwaway to Paul Pierce away from being 10-10 in the 20 games a guy of said magnitude misses (J-Rich throwaway from 9-6 if you take out McInnis pg games)! It just does not happen. I don't care how you try to spin it. Unfortunately though, b/c he is a great FANATASY/Hollinger player and exciting to watch, people forget the TEAM IMPACT and attempt to just call it luck or random fate when the team repeatedly excels in his absence.

People analyze and pick apart some player's games while only viewing Crash in terms of his strengths while mentioning his shortcomings in terms of potential as opposed to weaknesses. If trading him helped get us a legit FLOOR SPREADING frontcourt player (preferably a PF) to compliment Okafor while giving us a pick and pop option, I'm all for it.

I think Gerald is very exciting as an individual player, which is why folks want him to be the face of the franchise. However, I think for this team to excel he will need to improve at making the simple plays in the halfcourt (i.e. corner 3s like Bruce Bowen/James Posey) to compliment his spectacular play. Much of the reason that the offense and team ran better without Crash last year was b/c Carroll and Dudley did just this. They either knocked down the open shot (not sizing it up for a while letting the defense recover) or quickly moved the ball. If Crash learns to do these 2 things (less stalled out isolation play), he will be an even better asset to the WIN-LOSS record of the team as he already is a statistical all-star.

Finally, I think Bobcats folks can't just ignore factors such as durability and take them for granted. In a season where a few games are the difference b/w making the playoffs and being home, missing an average of 17 games a year is not something that can be ignored. And no, it's not about PF, which by the way is the position he and the team are most effective when he is in. It is about style of play.

[QUOTE=ziggy;90550]Trading Gerald Wallace seems to work its way into most of other topics, so lets consolidate that discussion here.

Here are few things that we know


Crash is our most exciting player
He is a fan favorite
We all love his electrifying dunks and incredible blocks

[iggypop123]

http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/vb/showthread.php?p=90473&highlight=odom#post90473



:wink:

I do have a suspicion Chad Ford's idea has at least as good if not better shot however, mainly because of Brown's past relationship with Sheed & Tay.

Good stuff about the Olympics...didn't know that one.

thanks for doing the search for me. im new to this site.

[110oldeast]

Naturally, Felton catches loads of chit from different posters and is scapegoated, despite the fact that he has been as clutch and DURABLE as anyone on the team since he has been here. The coaches have lived and died with him more, b/c other guys have shied from the moment and he has been willing to step up. He DEFINITELY can try to do too much, but the idea that he just bombs them out of games is beyond exaggerated. He's had poor moments (as all the Bobcats have), but has had plenty of strong moments too if one looks objectively. Since he has been here, the 82games.com clutch winning percentage he has had has been 1 or 2 on the team each year.

As to the buzzer beater jumpers (which NO pg wants to take as they KILL your fg percentage--ask Felton) oddly enough, when Wallace doesn't play, we don't have as many long buzzer beating jumpshots at the end of the shot clock b/c our offense has more of a flow and jumpshots that are setup don't get passed up. Furthermore, Dudley and Carroll pitch the ball if they don't have anything instead of helping the clock run down like Gerald can be prone to do in looking for an isolation play. And to the poster who mentioned that the Bobcats improved b/c of dropping McInnis, that was a BIG part of it. But still in that post-Touche time, they were better without Wallace.

In the 25 games after cutting Touche and putting Felton back predominantly at point they went:

13-12 overall; 13 games with Wallace and 12 without Wallace

8-4 withOUT Wallace

The offense averaged 106.8 pts; "Questionable decision maker, playmaker and offense runner" Raymond Felton averaged 9.8 assists with a 3.2/1 A/T ratio


5-8 with Wallace

The offense averaged 96.5 pts; Felton averaged 7.3 assists/game with a 2.7/1 A/T ratio.

Now folks can pin are halfcourt problems on Felton not being able to run a team if they choose. But as I continue to point out, the #1 issue has been NOT ENOUGH SHOOTING on the court to compliment the playmaker and the wrong mix of skills to form a cohesive unit. You don't run a smooth halfcourt offense without these. You don't have pgs who appear to be "great decision makers" without guys around them who can make the most fundamental and simple play in basketball. SHOOTING.

Again, this is why the offense ran better without Wallace. If he can simply perfect the corner 3 and make his offense more efficient in the jabstep, make a move or pass the ball mode, the team will be better off. The isolation play is what the poster was talking about in saying that he felt as though Wallace had to play as the man. Who knows if that is his actual psyche, but I think he was talking about style of play and domination of the ball. I think if harnessed Gerald can be as great a player for the TEAM as he is for the FANS.

[110oldeast]

PS: The reality is that Gerald's best position is PF, the position he doesn't want to play. He and his team are at the best when at this position, not SF.

[TheBeagle]

In 2006-07 season, he shot 1.7 three per game, in 2007-08 he shot 3.6 three pointers. That's why I'm saying we should trade him if we'd able to arrange a good trade. His value is high now and contract is great.

After the concussion, he said that he'll no longer be a hustle player as he was before. If he doesn't hustle, he's nothing. He's not a Kobe Bryant, he cannot depend on his jumpshots. He's shooting too much from outside, his isolation games are useless. He's a stepping stone on our offense. And yes, for exapmle if we can get Lamar Odom back in a trade, I send him to LA without thinking second time. Fuck it, let's just cut the useless bastard and relase ourselves once and for all from this oppressive albatross known as Gerald Wallace...:rolleyes:

[MattD]

Naturally, Felton catches loads of chit from different posters and is scapegoated, despite the fact that he has been as clutch and DURABLE as anyone on the team since he has been here. The coaches have lived and died with him more, b/c other guys have shied from the moment and he has been willing to step up. He DEFINITELY can try to do too much, but the idea that he just bombs them out of games is beyond exaggerated.



Defending myself... I never said he bombs out of games, but I cannot tell you the number of games i have watched him dribble at halfcourt until the clock runs down to 7 seconds and then he gets 5 feet within the three point line and surprise, misses. Or when Jrich gets hot and starts hitting threes and he decides its time for a drive through 4 defenders and a double clutch layup which, somehow, misses. Jrich is clutch and durable. Hes probably the most clutch on the team, think about his golden state days, versus dallas, the three pointer to win, the best buzzer beater of the year. Yet I think I saw Jrich maybe shoot 4 buzzer beaters on the year. Adam Morrison used to be able to hit ridiculous buzzer beaters. Why felton decides he should be shooting them, I dont know. It doesnt happen everytime, but it did many, way too many.

He wants to be a great pg and leader, and while I admire his drive, shooting more and taking difficult shots doesnt really help him accomplish that goal or help the team win. Can he be a good PG, definitely, but I detailed in a very long post my grievances with him, and they still stand.

[spectre]

You guys seem to forget that Bernie challenged these guys for someone to step up and be the leader...and no doubt the Idiot did the same. We have no superstar and have had no game plans, so of course the two captains felt the need to take it on their shoulders.

With Coach Brown on the scene I think all those arguments are kind of moot now. Getting a good vet PF for Crash is certainly an attractive option, but who knows what we really have until Brown has an opportunity to make them into a team?

There are other options for a PF, and if that doesn't work then next summer Crash will still be on his sweet deal and there'll be other vet PFs to be had. We're still young, entering our 5th season. No need to give up on Crash (or Felts) at this stage.

[110oldeast]

The ONLY possessions where this happened were on the end of the half possessions where the clearouts were called and designed to run the clock down and that frustrated me as well (although the within 5 ft of the 3 is exaggerated). However, that was not something that was prevalent throughout games or at the end of games. That said, I myself am not a fan of the END OF HALF long, heat check (loosen myself up for the next half) jumpshots that he takes. However, to sum up his games, seasons, or career by one play a game would be misleading. The only other shot clock buzzer beaters I see him take are not b/c he is trying to do this, but b/c the offense has stalled and he is the guy with the ball who can make a play. I doubt very seriously, he or any other pg wants the shots when they've been pitched the ball with 3 or 4 seconds left on the shot clock as they are percentage killers.


I never said J-Rich was not clutch or durable or anything close to that. I was speaking to Felton's tenure here which he has consistently been of of the most clutch and durable players year in and out. Whether getting to the line and making foul shots, making plays for him and those around him in the 4th quarters of games, he has played big down the stretch. By no means am I saying he hasn't made mistakes, but the guy has routinely been a big part of closing out close games for the Bobcats in his tenure, something he does not get enough credit for unless in a backhanded fashion.

I ALSO stand by my point about the efficiency of our offense and how he runs it when surrounded by guys who can make simple jumpshots. This makes him no different than any other pg in the league. Most pgs appear to be "better decision makers" when surrounded by guys who can complete the simple play when set up by their pg--shooting being the most significant.

Ask Steve Nash the difference when he runs the offense with 1 shooter in Bell to go along with Shaq, Amare, and Diaw vs. the offense with Bell, Barbosa, Diaw, and Stoudemire. Ask Deron Williams about Utah and his struggles early in the year that led to them seeking out Kyle Korver when they were 17-17. Ask Paul about how much easier it is to run the offense when Peja and Mo Pete are out there with West and Chandler as opposed to better overall and more gifted but less effective shooting Bonzi Wells and Julian Wright. I can go on and on here and even extend it beyond just pgs. It's about recognizing the trends and realities of the league, not just the Bobcats.

9.8 assists with a 3.2/1 A/T ratio in orchestrating an offense putting up almost 107 ppg with an 8-4 record is significantly different than 7.3 assists with a 2.7/1 A/T ratio in leading a 96.5 ppg offense with a 5-8 record.

The point is that it's not ONLY about Felton's simple playmaking abilities and decisions. Can he improve these? NO DOUBT, just like every Cat can improve facets of their game. Gerald fits into this equation as well, as if he is able to make more simple plays, it will help improve his durability and the flow of the TEAM offense. And finally, he like Felton also could benefit from having a frontcourt player who can step out of the lane and hit shots that spread the floor more, reducing the help defense in the lane.




Defending myself... I never said he bombs out of games, but I cannot tell you the number of games i have watched him dribble at halfcourt until the clock runs down to 7 seconds and then he gets 5 feet within the three point line and surprise, misses. Or when Jrich gets hot and starts hitting threes and he decides its time for a drive through 4 defenders and a double clutch layup which, somehow, misses. Jrich is clutch and durable. Hes probably the most clutch on the team, think about his golden state days, versus dallas, the three pointer to win, the best buzzer beater of the year. Yet I think I saw Jrich maybe shoot 4 buzzer beaters on the year. Adam Morrison used to be able to hit ridiculous buzzer beaters. Why felton decides he should be shooting them, I dont know. It doesnt happen everytime, but it did many, way too many.

He wants to be a great pg and leader, and while I admire his drive, shooting more and taking difficult shots doesnt really help him accomplish that goal or help the team win. Can he be a good PG, definitely, but I detailed in a very long post my grievances with him, and they still stand.

[qchoops]

Just for arguments sake...
Of those 13 games with Wallace - 10 were on the road
Of the 12 without Gerald - 6 were on the road

Additionally -
13 games with Gerald included 8 contests against playoff teams (plus a game against Portland), but among the weaker opponents, there were 3 games against Miami, Memphis, and Seattle.
12 games without Crash, there 6 games against playoff teams. Weaker opponents: Minn twice, Indiana, New Jersey, and New York.

110oldeast - Might the level of competition played a significant role in Raymond and the team's prowess without Gerald? I'm not saying that Gerald does not bog the offense down a bit, and maybe make it less effective...but I'm not convinced that he makes the team worse overall, due to his contributions on the defensive end.

Final note: From February 29th on, the team was at 106.3 points scored per 100 possessions and 105.1 points allowed, with Gerald. Without, the numbers are 108.3 for and 109.8 against.