D.J. Augustin is the pick at #9

[ziggy]

What are your thoughts?

[SWedd523]

I'm on the fence right now. I don't see how we pass on Bayless with this pick, but I guess we'll see when the season starts. I'm a little scared by his small size

[99problems]

How do you pass up Bayless? Did you hear how well spoken that kid is? Plus he's four inches taller than Augustine and has more potential.

Didn't Augustine get completely overwhelmed late in the NCAA tournament? I remember labeling him as a choke artist late against Memphis I believe.

[amour217]

I'm on the fence too....I like his PG skills and he's a good shooter...but he's short and I'm worried he'll have trouble getting his shot off and he'll get flattened by physical, bigger guards

[SWedd523]

How do you pass up Bayless? Did you hear how well spoken that kid is? Plus he's four inches taller than Augustine and has more potential.

Didn't Augustine get completely overwhelmed late in the NCAA tournament? I remember labeling him as a choke artist late against Memphis I believe.

Thank you. I was so happy when Bayless practically fell in our laps. I'll just have to convince myself that the bigwigs forgot he actually dropped to us

[Slam]

How do you pass up Bayless? Did you hear how well spoken that kid is? Plus he's four inches taller than Augustine and has more potential.

Didn't Augustine get completely overwhelmed late in the NCAA tournament? I remember labeling him as a choke artist late against Memphis I believe.

Bayless is 4 inches taller, but they have the SAME wing span, a similar standing reach but DJ is a much, much, much better point guard.

Rose missed critical FT's in the championship game - does that make him a choke artist?

I'm good with the pick. We had NO depth at the point, now we do.

[Chef]

at first i was not happy, but the more i think about it, i would rather have a pure point than a shoot first point/2 guard. usually, they end up being hard to put in a rotation. al'a iverson, starbury, francis. they score well but it gets hard to run a team offense. dj keeps his dribble alive and gets deep in the paint like steve nash. not saying he will end up that good, but at least you know what you are getting.

not happy with the 2nd pick. we need center help NOW. not maybe in 4 years after he is averaging 12 pts a game in france. i would have rather had kofus or jordan.

[SWedd523]

Bayless is 4 inches taller, but they have the SAME wing span, a similar standing reach but DJ is a much, much, much better point guard.

Rose missed critical FT's in the championship game - does that make him a choke artist?

I'm good with the pick. We had NO depth at the point, now we do.

But are Wallace and Richardson half-court players? Having Bayless run a fast paced offense with those other two scorers, we could easily be one of the higher scoring teams in the NBA. We still have Felton who is extremely under-appreciated as a PG. And we could even package someone and the #20 for someone, maybe Monta Ellis? (I know, it would never happen)

[timang]

But are Wallace and Richardson half-court players? Having Bayless run a fast paced offense with those other two scorers, we could easily be one of the higher scoring teams in the NBA. We still have Felton who is extremely under-appreciated as a PG. And we could even package someone and the #20 for someone, maybe Monta Ellis? (I know, it would never happen)


you're forgetting that we have LB at the helm. so probably it's not gonna be a really fast paced game we'll be having. we'll need that PG more than a combo

[SWedd523]

you're forgetting that we have LB at the helm. so probably it's not gonna be a really fast paced game we'll be having. we'll need that PG more than a combo

I never forgot that lol, we have to play with the type of talent we have. Raymond Felton is a good PG. LB will use his UNC influence to get the best out of him. But I guess all of that is out the window now that we have Augustin.

[spectre]

I never forgot that lol, we have to play with the type of talent we have. Raymond Felton is a good PG. LB will use his UNC influence to get the best out of him. But I guess all of that is out the window now that we have Augustin.

Now why would that be? Think we're going to run with a rook and no backup at PG this year?

Brown said...and the interviewer ASKED...Westbrook if he could deal with being a backup. It was reported that we tried to do a deal with Seattle but they wanted too much. Who did Seattle take at 4?

It was a depth pick. IF he could possibly challenge for the PG slot that's a good thing...but to automatically assume Larry Brown is going to turn this team over to a short rookie PG is not being realistic.

[Slam]

Why are you assuming that DJ will replace Felts and not back him?

[timang]

I never forgot that lol, we have to play with the type of talent we have. Raymond Felton is a good PG. LB will use his UNC influence to get the best out of him. But I guess all of that is out the window now that we have Augustin.

haha. i think ray's not going to be hurt with this pick. it'll only make him worked harder than ever. and DJ can't ball directly as a starter for us right? he'll just be scaring the hell outta ray, PG-playing wise for the time being.


this situation will work. our draft was a safe one. we just have to live with what ifs if bayless pans out better than DJ. but that's better than dealing brook lopez if we got him drafted... by a mile :p

[SWedd523]

I'm going off the assumption that we were dangling Felton out for trades. If we're listening to offers for him then wouldn't it be safe to assume we have high hopes for Augustin? I mean they're basically identical as far as size goes as far as I'm concerned.

IF we keep Felton then I agree with you. But I would've loved to see Chauncy Billups Jr. (Bayless) running the team

[spectre]

Bonnell hit on this in his blog. Felts is coming up for a contract extension this summer (before the season) so it makes sense that they'd try to get some idea of his worth. From the way it sounds it wasn't just Felts they were getting value "quotes" from.

I agree it's a safe pick. Bayless very well might end up a better pro, but we all know how critical LB is on points. No doubt he'd have fits with Bayless playing backup PG.

[SWedd523]

Bonnell hit on this in his blog. Felts is coming up for a contract extension this summer (before the season) so it makes sense that they'd try to get some idea of his worth. From the way it sounds it wasn't just Felts they were getting value "quotes" from.

I agree it's a safe pick. Bayless very well might end up a better pro, but we all know how critical LB is on points. No doubt he'd have fits with Bayless playing backup PG.

That's a valid point about the Bayless-Brown relationship. Also with Felton up for an extension he might play harder looking for that money. Add that to the competition with Augustin.. he may very well put up some good numbers next year

I just don't like drafting in the top 10 for a possible backup.

[timang]

That's a valid point about the Bayless-Brown relationship. Also with Felton up for an extension he might play harder looking for that money. Add that to the competition with Augustin.. he may very well put up some good numbers next year

I just don't like drafting in the top 10 for a possible backup.

bayless will still be a back-up if we got him. unless you're getting 1 or 2 they're all gonna have to play from the bench.

[Slam]

I just don't like drafting in the top 10 for a possible backup.

I do understand that, but I felt that way more in 2006 when we drafted a back up 3rd overall. Tonight, with the way things fell, we probably would have been taken a back up at #9 any way.

That being the case, I'm happy to get a back up who is as smart as DJ.

Plus, it means we get a back up at a position we REALLY need a back up at - and the learning curve for DJ wont be that great.

[spectre]

Like I said though, his contract comes up BEFORE the season starts. Not saying we wouldn't trade Felts, but I think it'd have to be something pretty darn good. It'd also mean we'd be getting someone like Billups in here, because there's just no way I'll believe LB at his age would survive with a rookie starting at PG.

And as Slam mentioned...a backup was what we were going to get staying at 9 (and why I so desperately wanted to get in the top 3). Heck, even Brown said he'd seen NOBODY in workouts that could come in and start.

I saw some of DJ and I liked his poise. He's fast and he has a long wingspan. He'll be a good backup PG...MUCH better than the midget or McInnis.

[SWedd523]

I do understand that, but I felt that way more in 2006 when we drafted a back up 3rd overall. Tonight, with the way things fell, we probably would have been taken a back up at #9 any way.

That being the case, I'm happy to get a back up who is as smart as DJ.

Plus, it means we get a back up at a position we REALLY need a back up at - and the learning curve for DJ wont be that great.

I agree with what you're saying. I see us grooming DJ to take over the spot for Felton further down the road. Felton is a solid guy, but he hasn't exactly grown into what has been expected by his potential. Augustin will hopefully be the long-term starter with Felton coming off the bench to provide when needed.

Why are we sleeping on Boykins?! (joke)

[SWedd523]

We were kind of in no man's land with our pick. Missing out on the HIGHEST talent but still picking high enough to not be able to pick for the future. Augustin is no doubt going to be a solid PG for us.

I will restate my hope for Billups here. Dumars is seriously looking to change things up in Detroit, why not start fresh and deal us Chauncy? LB certainly loves him.

[swetooth9]

at first I was mad that we did not pick jerryd bayless...but he doesn't seem like someone who would make a very good PG to get everyone involved...he seems more like a selfish scorer, which would make GW and JR useless...DJ seems like a pass first guy that wants to get everyone involved...plus he's a good shooter which we need

I'm guessing it's gonna be:

Ray/Augustin
JRich/Carroll/Weaver

this will give ray some rest and give augustin some playing time to get better

[dnbman]

After initially being frustrated, I think I'm turning a bit on this pick. We still have glaring wholes, but we just turned our pg situation into a pretty good positive. Certainly, Felton or Augustine will prove to be a great starting pg over the next two years. The other will either be a great backup or a great trade piece. My only concern is that we keep playing Felton at the 2, which I don't think we'll need to do since Augustine can score and pass, unlike our other pgs we've had recently. The biggest problem will be finding the minutes for both players. Where Bayless, Gordon, or Westbrook would have found extra minutes at the 2, it's now either Ray (please, no!) or short minutes for either/and Augustine or Felton.

So, I'm welcoming Augustine to the team and look forward to adding another piece to the puzzle. Now I just really hope we get a legit PF that doesn't involve a lopsided trade in some other team's favor.

[Wallace15]

I don't mind this pick at all. We had one PG under contract which was Felton and we desperately needed another one. DJ is a very good PG that will only help our team and will be great competition for Ray to work even harder and help him get better.

[TheBeagle]

Well, this will shock the hell out of those of yall on the draft chat, but viewed in that perspective, DJ "Smurf" Augstin is not a disaster. That said, any talk of trading Raymond away needs to be shelved, or this pick was a disaster. There's no way we can expect this kid to come in here and start, while giving us a chance to win on a nightly basis. I really wanted RW, and then I really wanted Bayless, but having a suitable backup PG in Smurf isn't terrible: Raymond will have a chance to be a PG full time and either sink or swim, and like DNB says, if one shows that he has what it takes to be the PG of the future, it will have been a successful draft. I'm just really worried about how lost and overmatched he looked against Rose in the tourney. We'll see though.

But what the hell is up with the Weaver pick? Now that one, I'll never understand.

EDIT***** I'm a moron (big surprise there, right?), so forget that last statement about Weaver.

[Icky Thump]

Well, this will shock the hell out of those of yall on the draft chat, but viewed in that perspective, DJ "Smurf" Augstin is not a disaster. That said, any talk of trading Raymond away needs to be shelved, or this pick was a disaster. There's no way we can expect this kid to come in here and start, while giving us a chance to win on a nightly basis. I really wanted RW, and then I really wanted Bayless, but having a suitable backup PG in Smurf isn't terrible: Raymond will have a chance to be a PG full time and either sink or swim, and like DNB says, if one shows that he has what it takes to be the PG of the future, it will have been a successful draft. I'm just really worried about how lost and overmatched he looked against Rose in the tourney. We'll see though.

But what the hell is up with the Weaver pick? Now that one, I'll never understand.

The absolute truth!! If we keep him and Felton and add a quality post player somehow over the offseason this pick wont be so bad. Smurf and Frenchy have potential but we absolutely need a post player.

[TheBeagle]

The absolute truth!! If we keep him and Felton and add a quality post player somehow over the offseason this pick wont be so bad. Smurf and Frenchy have potential but we absolutely need a post player.
You're right about the post player. As much as it hurts, I guess we'll have to look at moving Gerald and another or two small pieces to get us a quality 4, but NOT David Lee. That guy is fool's gold; ask any Knicks fan; he's a mirage that looks better the farther away you are from him, meaning when he's not on your team. Even though I think he'll pout about having to play in Charlotte and may not work out, I don't guess I'd be too upset to get Odom for Gerald and the other pieces. But then that begs the question of what we'll do at starting 3, and if it's JRich, then what about starting 2? Oh well, I'm not as pissed as I was during the chat, and that's good....

Icky, I repped you up for coming up with the Smurf nickname for DJ!! I love it!

[ohara831]

DJ is our future. Ray is the past. DJ will be special and by mid season everyone will be saying we got the steal of the draft.

[dnbman]

DJ is our future. Ray is the past. DJ will be special and by mid season everyone will be saying we got the steal of the draft.

I'm not on board with that sentiment at all, and I think it only hurts the team. But I understand that you're critical of Felton.

Even the analysts I saw that liked the pick still thought Felton was a quality young, up and coming guard. He's far from his ceiling.

[Keetch]

I'd like to jump on but sorry I just don't like DJ at all. He's an excellant college PG who will be pretty mediocre in the NBA.

And I hope they trade Felton very soon, I can't watch him as a Bobcat anymore, while his replacement is on the bench. And I definitely don't want to watch him at SG, not at all.

Maybe Paul Allen can just buy Felts straight up.

For me, I'm just considering the best ways to sell all of my tickets. All 82 of them.

[tamburello]

We needed a backup PG. But did we have to do it with 9th pick? This pick is wasted no matter how DJ plays. Why is Felton needed to be pushed? This pick means nothing but the untrust of LB to Felton. Your top picks may turn to a backup in a couple of years (like Morrison). But would you select someone only to make him a back up?

We needed a backup PG. But didn't we need a STARTING CENTER also? As Brook Lopez was still available, not selecting him has no difference with suicide.

Don't be surprised if Ajinça has no pros from DJ Mbenga or Mouhamed Sene. I'm very very pissed.

[Mustachio]

We needed a backup PG. But did we have to do it with 9th pick? This pick is wasted no matter how DJ plays. Why is Felton needed to be pushed? This pick means nothing but the untrust of LB to Felton. Your top picks may turn to a backup in a couple of years (like Morrison). But would you select someone only to make him a back up?

We needed a backup PG. But didn't we need a STARTING CENTER also? As Brook Lopez was still available, not selecting him has no difference with suicide.

Don't be surprised if Ajinça has no pros from DJ Mbenga or Mouhamed Sene. I'm very very pissed.



are you seriously suggesting we should have picked Brook Freakin Lopez. I would much rather address a need with a draft pick than draft Chris Mihm. Lopez is what he is... and im tired of having guys that we know everything about and have 0 upside.

COMPETITION MAKES TEAMS BETTER. if your playing for your spot... wouldnt you buck up and win the job. If Felton is gonna be our PG... he has to show it now. We now have upside and depth at positions of need. This isn't as bad as everyone is making out. Too much pre-draft hype and trade talk made for one disappointing draft night... but damnit we got better last night. even if we didn't sign Lebron James in the process.

[tamburello]

Did Raptors have a PG problem last season while they have Calderon and TJ Ford? According to you, no. Then why Colangelo tried to trade TJ Ford as hell? They are not even Arenas and Iverson (high ego), they are Calderon and Ford (relatively low ego).

I don't discuss the abilities of Augustin, but this is a very wasted choice. Unless we trade Felton, this PG situation will continue to create chemistry problems as Raps faced sooner or later.

I feel myself as troller as tray, but I can't stop feeling pissed. And apparently I won't.

[tamburello]

are you seriously suggesting we should have picked Brook Freakin Lopez. I would much rather address a need with a draft pick than draft Chris Mihm. Lopez is what he is... and im tired of having guys that we know everything about and have 0 upside.

COMPETITION MAKES TEAMS BETTER. if your playing for your spot... wouldnt you buck up and win the job. If Felton is gonna be our PG... he has to show it now. We now have upside and depth at positions of need. This isn't as bad as everyone is making out. Too much pre-draft hype and trade talk made for one disappointing draft night... but damnit we got better last night. even if we didn't sign Lebron James in the process.

We don't need fckn upside. We need points, rebounds, assists now. Beginning with last season's trade of J-Rich and signings of Wallace and Carroll, we're not a building team to sacrifice seasons of picks for potential. Lopez could help us right away. A healthy Mihm also could help us right away, surely more than Ajinça.

2 days ago no-one was asking for a character test from Felton. But somehow, everyone became devil's advocate and wanted Felton to prove himself, while not demanding the same from Augustin. Felton almost turned to the scapegoat of last disappointing season.

[SWedd523]

are you seriously suggesting we should have picked Brook Freakin Lopez. I would much rather address a need with a draft pick than draft Chris Mihm. Lopez is what he is... and im tired of having guys that we know everything about and have 0 upside.

COMPETITION MAKES TEAMS BETTER. if your playing for your spot... wouldnt you buck up and win the job. If Felton is gonna be our PG... he has to show it now. We now have upside and depth at positions of need. This isn't as bad as everyone is making out. Too much pre-draft hype and trade talk made for one disappointing draft night... but damnit we got better last night. even if we didn't sign Lebron James in the process.

The point he's trying to make is that our BIGGEST need is a solid STARTING center. Someone who can come in right now and man that spot. We need DEPTH at PG, but if we still have a spot at 20 then there's plenty of solid kids to choose to play BACKUP.

The NBA is a NOW league. LB is a NOW coach. Picking in the top 10 and not picking someone who is definitely going to step in for a need is stupid. Sure DJ is a good player, but top 10 is too high to pick a depth player. We can still pick someone with star potential that high.

I will admit there weren't very many good big men.. But right now how did our draft go? Depth at the Point and size at the Wing.... and a D-League prospect with a big man in the TOP 20! Unless we make a trade for a solid big guy (the rumor about Rasheed Wallace comes to mind) we're up for another disappointing season

[Mustachio]

We don't need fckn upside. We need points, rebounds, assists now. Beginning with last season's trade of J-Rich and signings of Wallace and Carroll, we're not a building team to sacrifice seasons of picks for potential. Lopez could help us right away. A healthy Mihm also could help us right away, surely more than Ajinça.

2 days ago no-one was asking for a character test from Felton. But somehow, everyone became devil's advocate and wanted Felton to prove himself, while not demanding the same from Augustin. Felton almost turned to the scapegoat of last disappointing season.


dude brook lopez could not help us right away. hes no better than Nazr. we didnt have a whole lot of options at 9.

I am not drinking the kool-aid just to drink the kool-aid. Im not giving management a free pass. but i can say we got better in this draft and didnt lose any of our core in the process.

I love Felton... he will be our starting PG next season. Augustine will be his back up. If Felton proves to not be good enough... then DJ will get the shot. Competition makes a team better... thats all their is to it. If Felton is scared of competition he can hit the door. He's not scared so he will just up his game.

God i can't believe someone is pissed that we didn't draft Lopez! Brook Lopez..... seriously BROOK LOPEZ. nearly everyone on here agrees that Okafor needs to be at C. So let me get this straight.... you DONT want DJ Augustine to back up Raymond Felton (where we literally have no backup option).... but you DO want Brook Lopez to back up Okafor. that doesn't make a lick of sense.


I agree we still need PF help. but jesus christ who is pissed that we didnt draft Lopez.

[Mustachio]

The point he's trying to make is that our BIGGEST need is a solid STARTING center. Someone who can come in right now and man that spot. We need DEPTH at PG, but if we still have a spot at 20 then there's plenty of solid kids to choose to play BACKUP.

The NBA is a NOW league. LB is a NOW coach. Picking in the top 10 and not picking someone who is definitely going to step in for a need is stupid. Sure DJ is a good player, but top 10 is too high to pick a depth player. We can still pick someone with star potential that high.

I will admit there weren't very many good big men.. But right now how did our draft go? Depth at the Point and size at the Wing.... and a D-League prospect with a big man in the TOP 20! Unless we make a trade for a solid big guy (the rumor about Rasheed Wallace comes to mind) we're up for another disappointing season


thats easy to say and all.... but if your in the front office and the number 9 pick comes... what the hell are you gonna do. Draft Randolph? Draft Lopez? Draft Jordan?? we talked about this for 3 weeks leading up ... BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE that fits a need. backup PG was a need. We got the best available point guard in the draft at 9.

I guess Larry Brown forgot to sprinkle his magic fairy dust and draft Beasley at number 9.

[SWedd523]

thats easy to say and all.... but if your in the front office and the number 9 pick comes... what the hell are you gonna do. Draft Randolph? Draft Lopez? Draft Jordan?? we talked about this for 3 weeks leading up ... BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE that fits a need. backup PG was a need. We got the best available point guard in the draft at 9.

I guess Larry Brown forgot to sprinkle his magic fairy dust and draft Beasley at number 9.

You're right, the draft pool for big men was weak. But couldn't we have packaged something to get a solid defensive prospect like Lopez (the OTHER Lopez, the one people are saying has the higher upside). Could we not have packaged say... Ammo and the 9 to move up into the top 5 to get someone like Kevin Love? Then use the 20 for a solid backup PG since thats basically all we have right now in Augustin?

I know it makes too much sense right?
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I am going to reserve judgement until we see what happens later in the trade market. If we pick up Rasheed Wallace then I'll shut up

[spectre]

I guess Larry Brown forgot to sprinkle his magic fairy dust and draft Beasley at number 9.

Only in the Land where 9th + Ammo = Mayo! :p

Well said Mustachio...agreed.

[tamburello]

What can I say after you undervalued Lopez that much? Well, be it. Hopefully you'll be right.

[dnbman]

I don't discuss the abilities of Augustin, but this is a very wasted choice. Unless we trade Felton, this PG situation will continue to create chemistry problems as Raps faced sooner or later.

I think that's something I'm trying to avoid in a very small way with this thread. The fans can turn this into Augustine vs. Felton, as many want to do. Or, we can rally around both guys. By nature we're going to be comparing them, but hopefully it will more for their positives and less for their negatives, as I think both will better under Brown than either of our previous coaches. (Obviously, we have no point of comparison with Augustine.) We still need a good 4 to open things up for either guy, but it could be a good situation, especially since Augustine will still have a pretty big learning curve as a considerably smaller guard who won't have his already average speed advantage.

[spectre]

DJ is our future. Ray is the past. DJ will be special and by mid season everyone will be saying we got the steal of the draft.

Ugh. Let's at least see if he can play in this league before we declare him the "future" ok?

First it was Love who was a sure thing...now this undersized PG is "special". Maybe we should have traded Crash and Swish for picks in the draft...we could have had a whole lineup of rookie "special" players.

Y'all people are killing me.

[BIGCatBobcat]

Ugh. Let's at least see if he can play in this league before we declare him the "future" ok?

First it was Love who was a sure thing...now this undersized PG is "special". Maybe we should have traded Crash and Swish for picks in the draft...we could have had a whole lineup of rookie "special" players.

Y'all people are killing me.

exactly, let's go with this but not push it over the edge. I'm not going to say yes I excited about the Augustin pick until I see it on the court. I will support it as a fan because, like it or not it's what we've got. I just can't say he's the future of the pg position of the Bobcats yet, but I can't bash the pick either.

[Mustachio]

I still can't believe someone would want Brook Lopez over DJ Augustine.


and Keetch. you are a Charlotte Bobcats season ticket holder. not a ray felton or Gerald Wallace season ticket holder. As a fellow season ticket holder... I didn't know who was gonna be on this team when i bought them. I didnt care. We have an NBA team in Charlotte and I support them regardless of who plays. You couldn't have honestly expected to be a playoff or championship team in year 4 of an expansion franchise so why so upset.

[ohara831]

I still can't believe someone would want Brook Lopez over DJ Augustine.


and Keetch. you are a Charlotte Bobcats season ticket holder. not a ray felton or Gerald Wallace season ticket holder. As a fellow season ticket holder... I didn't know who was gonna be on this team when i bought them. I didnt care. We have an NBA team in Charlotte and I support them regardless of who plays. You couldn't have honestly expected to be a playoff or championship team in year 4 of an expansion franchise so why so upset.

__________________________________________________ ____________________

Very well said. My sentiments exactly. I support the team. I like the players, but players come and go. I trust LB and MJ together to make the right decisions.

[Mustachio]

Ugh. Let's at least see if he can play in this league before we declare him the "future" ok?

First it was Love who was a sure thing...now this undersized PG is "special". Maybe we should have traded Crash and Swish for picks in the draft...we could have had a whole lineup of rookie "special" players.

Y'all people are killing me.


i disagree spec. your upset with picking DJ at 9. but the coaches and Jordan have said they arent looking to get rid of Ray and that DJ will be exactly what we needed... a back up PG. I don't see what else we could have done.

So if none of the rookies are special enough to be starters as you say above... then why is picking a back up PG (with the potential to become starter) at 9 a problem.


we went into this draft with two major needs: Back up PG and a big. we got both. maybe not in the pre rank draft order that everyone wanted... but pre draft rankings mean nothing. ask Monta Ellis.

sure it would have been nice to grab Love at 9 and someone else at 20. but the draft didn't flow that way. I think it was nice that the managment had the foresight to plan ahead and get the 20th pick. that way whatever happened in the first 8 spots... we got ourselves two good players at areas of need. I dont see why its so crazy to think that a guy who has won an NCAA title and an NBA title, and a guy who may be the greatest basketball player of all time... know what they are doing.

[dnbman]

I still can't believe someone would want Brook Lopez over DJ Augustine.


and Keetch. you are a Charlotte Bobcats season ticket holder. not a ray felton or Gerald Wallace season ticket holder. As a fellow season ticket holder... I didn't know who was gonna be on this team when i bought them. I didnt care. We have an NBA team in Charlotte and I support them regardless of who plays. You couldn't have honestly expected to be a playoff or championship team in year 4 of an expansion franchise so why so upset.

While I know Keetch doesn't need for me to speak for him, I'll just say this: yeah, you support the team first before any individual players. However, if you think the ownership group isn't getting things right and you're not happy with the players on the court, then what are you supporting? Expensive trips to Charlotte decked out in orange and blue? We're not talking about being a 50 year Red Sox fan weathering a storm with a giant legacy to waive. You're putting your faith into a franchise to create something worth supporting.

We've seen three different visions now affecting this franchise:

* Bickerstaff's build slow and smart with emphasis on proven winners and value.
* Jordan's emphasis on winning now and gambling to make it happen.
and now most recently:
* Larry Brown's new "play the right way" mentality that will no doubt cause growing pains, but it will ultimately force us to grow.

In some ways these visions seem like a natural progression, but in other ways they seem to conflict. We've been playing our players at awkward positions to handle the shift in team vision and personnel, and now we're at risk of seriously overlooking good talent. In doing so, we now have made picks that seem to some to be redundant, like choosing a point guard that had similar attributes coming out of college that our current point guard, who's bigger and faster, had.

Ultimately it boils down to us needing to appreciate what we have and us being optimistic. However, when you're putting down big dollars each season to support a team, you want to know that the ship is moving in the right direction, or at least, in a direction.

[gman15]

as for kyle weaver, look for him to be a bruce bowen type player. they said last night at the draft that he was a "defensive specialist"

[spectre]

i disagree spec. your upset with picking DJ at 9. but the coaches and Jordan have said they arent looking to get rid of Ray and that DJ will be exactly what we needed... a back up PG. I don't see what else we could have done.

You're not disagreeing with me...I said last night that it wasn't a bad selection. I doubt that LB would want Bayless as a PG, so it didn't shock me that he was passed up for DJ.

Hell, I've been the one telling everyone the plan wasn't to dump Felts all thru this!

What I do find pretty idiotic is assuming that Larry Brown...the guy who supposedly hates rookies (which I don't buy, but I DO think he values veterans over rookies) AND is toughest on PGs would trade Felts and run with a guy who hasn't proven he can even play in the NBA yet.

[Slam]

Did Raptors have a PG problem last season while they have Calderon and TJ Ford? According to you, no. Then why Colangelo tried to trade TJ Ford as hell?

Totally different situation and you are taking what happened with the Raps out of context.

1. TJ is already locked up at about $8.5mil a year for the next 4 years
2. Jose is a FA who is going to get paid around $8.5-$10mill a year for the next 3+ years
3. The Raps DIDN'T want close to $20mil tied up in their PG rotation (who does?)
4. TJ has a serious injury concern and is an extreme health risk (more so than Crash)
5. They were in a situation where they could trade TJ for an all star centre (who i don't like, but what ever) who will help them in the playoffs and addresses a HUGE area of concern for them.

We'll have DJ on his rookie deal for 4 years. Felts "might" extend over the summer. IF when the time DJ's rookie deal expires, IN FOUR YEARS, maybe we will trade one of them for the part we need.

But until then, we have a high quality, very affordable PG rotation.

[TheBeagle]

While I know Keetch doesn't need for me to speak for him, I'll just say this: yeah, you support the team first before any individual players. However, if you think the ownership group isn't getting things right and you're not happy with the players on the court, then what are you supporting? Expensive trips to Charlotte decked out in orange and blue? We're not talking about being a 50 year Red Sox fan weathering a storm with a giant legacy to waive. You're putting your faith into a franchise to create something worth supporting.

We've seen three different visions now affecting this franchise:

* Bickerstaff's build slow and smart with emphasis on proven winners and value.
* Jordan's emphasis on winning now and gambling to make it happen.
and now most recently:
* Larry Brown's new "play the right way" mentality that will no doubt cause growing pains, but it will ultimately force us to grow.

In some ways these visions seem like a natural progression, but in other ways they seem to conflict. We've been playing our players at awkward positions to handle the shift in team vision and personnel, and now we're at risk of seriously overlooking good talent. In doing so, we now have made picks that seem to some to be redundant, like choosing a point guard that had similar attributes coming out of college that our current point guard, who's bigger and faster, had.

Ultimately it boils down to us needing to appreciate what we have and us being optimistic. However, when you're putting down big dollars each season to support a team, you want to know that the ship is moving in the right direction, or at least, in a direction. Yeah, also there needs to be a middle ground between being unrealistically critical of a team and having unrealistic faith in those in charge. Basically, a fan needs to be a skeptical optimist. Still, I can understand Keetch's disappointment in what went down last night, and what more might come in the next weeks/months. Also, I can appreciate ohara's bright outlook for the future. I agree fully with neither; I occupy a space in-between.

That said, if Raymond is traded for a clodhopper like David Lee, and we start Smurf at PG, methinks I'll be looking to unload my tixs along with Keetch. That is an utterly insance and ridiculous trade that will move this team out of Charlotte very very soon, and to be honest, that would be a good thing if that trade happens.

[Mustachio]

You're not disagreeing with me...I said last night that it wasn't a bad selection. I doubt that LB would want Bayless as a PG, so it didn't shock me that he was passed up for DJ.

Hell, I've been the one telling everyone the plan wasn't to dump Felts all thru this!

What I do find pretty idiotic is assuming that Larry Brown...the guy who supposedly hates rookies (which I don't buy, but I DO think he values veterans over rookies) AND is toughest on PGs would trade Felts and run with a guy who hasn't proven he can even play in the NBA yet.


i think we're on the same page.

[polarcat]

i feel today like i did when we drafted felton and may. i thought we would learn the lesson of quality over quantity, but again we went down this road. honestly, i feel better today then i did initially, b/c i felt like augustine was jameer nelson v. 2.0. i'm actually ok with the pick of augustin, and think davidson will be given the opportunity to earn the pf position while frenchy hits the nbdl and the weight room. much like paul > felton + may, i hope that mayo or love don't end up > augustin + ajinca. much like chicago and toronto had 2 pg's to use as assets, i feel like that will be us soon.

[Mustachio]

i feel today like i did when we drafted felton and may. i thought we would learn the lesson of quality over quantity, but again we went down this road. honestly, i feel better today then i did initially, b/c i felt like augustine was jameer nelson v. 2.0. i'm actually ok with the pick of augustin, and think davidson will be given the opportunity to earn the pf position while frenchy hits the nbdl and the weight room. much like paul > felton + may, i hope that mayo or love don't end up > augustin + ajinca. much like chicago and toronto had 2 pg's to use as assets, i feel like that will be us soon.


28 other teams didn't make trades for Chris Paul. 28 Other teams passed on Mayo and Love as well. I hate hindsight. It won't be the last time we pass up or leave a star for someone else. Its happens every single year in the NBA. but we won't know until the game gets played.

[Dead_Real]

Off topic a bit but I can't wait to see Brook Lopez in the NBA :biggrin:
http://urbangrounds.com/images/Augustine_vs_Lopez.jpg

Yea that's smurf...He seriously couldn't have blocked that? wow

[Keetch]

I've got so much to say on this that honestly I don't know where to begin...ok....

First, admittedly some of this is personel, I don't wish DJ or the Bobcats any misfortune; but...as I watched DJ Augustin at Texas, I developed a sincere dislike for him. First, in his freshman year, I followed Texas only because I was an admitted (and somewhat misplaced) Kevin Durant homer. Being that, I would become annoyed at the frosh point guy who consistly failed to get Durant the ball at the most critical times; to the point of losing the most critical games. Then this year, with Durant gone, I didn't watch Texas all that much but was skeptical of the hype DJ was receiving. Then during the tournaments at the end of the season, when I did watch; he seemed to be the same player I remembered...choking the critical plays. Didn't he miss some free throws somewhere? Didn't he get shut down by Rose?

Okay I'm sure he's a special talent, probably special enough to reach the special level of Damon Stoudemire at least. "Special talent" was the by-word last night used on just about every one of the first 15 players or so. I do not look forward to DJ being just good enough to get us the 10th pick in upcoming drafts.

Second. I LIKE Raymond Felton. I HAVE clients that I give tix to that LOVE Raymond Felton. I remember one game where I made sure we were in our seats so that my close friend could have a chance at a tee shirt. Where we sit, at 6:40 when the players run onto the court and toss shirts, there is in excellant chance to get one because there are so few fans in the seats. Dnbman we saw you during halftime at that game. I told my friend "You got to get up and yell! You got to earn it!" So he did and Ray comes over with a big grin and tosses my buddy a shirt. My friend was smiling ear to ear. "I got a shirt from Raymond Felton! My boy is gonna love this!"

For me Raymond and Crash are major components of the team personality that I enjoy. I'm not so naive to think that's set in stone, of course it isn't; but for now I'm a fan of Raymond Felton and I enjoy watching him lead the team. I sincerely like his game as point guard for the Bobcats. I pay to come to the Arena to see him play.

The Bobcats did not sign DJ to be a longterm backup. That's ludicrous. They signed him to replace Felton. So fine, go ahead; but please don't put Felton back into the combo guard futility or leave him competing with DJ. Trade him somewhere that he's appreciated. I will probably get over myself.

Trading Felton for Lee works for me if thats the best we can do. I like David Lee alot, I like David Lee a whole lot. I'd love to have him in Charlotte. But I recognize too that he's not a complete package player that will get us to the playoffs. He's a hustle guy with enough skills to be effective when a lot of the other hyper-athletes are too tired to play a back-to-back. Every team needs that. They LOVE Lee in NY, even though NY management seems to consistantly be lukewarm towards him. Of course, Lee played for Brown, so LB knows what he's getting and what its worth.

One last point (I'm gonna leave Ajinca for later - hoo boy I wanted Arthur bad). I don't think Larry Brown cares a whit whether the Bobcats make the playoffs next year. He is going to break it and rebuild it. On the bubble are Crash, Felts, Ammo and May. Okafor, JRich and Duds seem safe and rightfully so. I'm not so sure I'm down with that yet, though I can understand it. I had just hoped that the arrival of LB would foretell the refinement and development of what we had, not the destruction of it. Other than possibly Ammo (sorry Ammofans love ya, but you know where I am), I thought we had a good roster.

Again, I KNOW this is subjective. I know that DJ is probably better than I give him credit for. But sportsfandom is emotional and fickle. Its getting a hot dog and drinking a beer before taking your shirt off for the jumbotron. So unfortunately right now I'm a little upset. There was a lot of hype going into this draft, which for the most part was reconciled in the end to dissappointment, boredom, and Stuart Scott's bent up spectacles.

[swetooth9]

we'll just have to see what the roster looks like at the start of the season (and at the end of the season as well) in order to see what direction we're going as an organization

[TheLegend]

Off topic a bit but I can't wait to see Brook Lopez in the NBA :biggrin:
http://urbangrounds.com/images/Augustine_vs_Lopez.jpg

Yea that's smurf...He seriously couldn't have blocked that? wow

That game was a total blowout, I think the score was 82-64

[Icky Thump]

Did Smurf actually score on that shot? Someones got to find the vid to prove that to me.

[TheLegend]

Yeah he did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaTnmHKqV0Q&feature=related

[swetooth9]

that should have been an and1 by dj...brook jumped into him a little...

its good that dj can score while big guys are in the paint

[Icky Thump]

Good one for Smurf! Guess that somewhat erased the memory of Rose blocking Smurfs shot badly. Go Smurf!

[Mustachio]

I've got so much to say on this that honestly I don't know where to begin...ok....

First, admittedly some of this is personel, I don't wish DJ or the Bobcats any misfortune; but...as I watched DJ Augustin at Texas, I developed a sincere dislike for him. First, in his freshman year, I followed Texas only because I was an admitted (and somewhat misplaced) Kevin Durant homer. Being that, I would become annoyed at the frosh point guy who consistly failed to get Durant the ball at the most critical times; to the point of losing the most critical games. Then this year, with Durant gone, I didn't watch Texas all that much but was skeptical of the hype DJ was receiving. Then during the tournaments at the end of the season, when I did watch; he seemed to be the same player I remembered...choking the critical plays. Didn't he miss some free throws somewhere? Didn't he get shut down by Rose?

Okay I'm sure he's a special talent, probably special enough to reach the special level of Damon Stoudemire at least. "Special talent" was the by-word last night used on just about every one of the first 15 players or so. I do not look forward to DJ being just good enough to get us the 10th pick in upcoming drafts.

Second. I LIKE Raymond Felton. I HAVE clients that I give tix to that LOVE Raymond Felton. I remember one game where I made sure we were in our seats so that my close friend could have a chance at a tee shirt. Where we sit, at 6:40 when the players run onto the court and toss shirts, there is in excellant chance to get one because there are so few fans in the seats. Dnbman we saw you during halftime at that game. I told my friend "You got to get up and yell! You got to earn it!" So he did and Ray comes over with a big grin and tosses my buddy a shirt. My friend was smiling ear to ear. "I got a shirt from Raymond Felton! My boy is gonna love this!"

For me Raymond and Crash are major components of the team personality that I enjoy. I'm not so naive to think that's set in stone, of course it isn't; but for now I'm a fan of Raymond Felton and I enjoy watching him lead the team. I sincerely like his game as point guard for the Bobcats. I pay to come to the Arena to see him play.

The Bobcats did not sign DJ to be a longterm backup. That's ludicrous. They signed him to replace Felton. So fine, go ahead; but please don't put Felton back into the combo guard futility or leave him competing with DJ. Trade him somewhere that he's appreciated. I will probably get over myself.

Trading Felton for Lee works for me if thats the best we can do. I like David Lee alot, I like David Lee a whole lot. I'd love to have him in Charlotte. But I recognize too that he's not a complete package player that will get us to the playoffs. He's a hustle guy with enough skills to be effective when a lot of the other hyper-athletes are too tired to play a back-to-back. Every team needs that. They LOVE Lee in NY, even though NY management seems to consistantly be lukewarm towards him. Of course, Lee played for Brown, so LB knows what he's getting and what its worth.

One last point (I'm gonna leave Ajinca for later - hoo boy I wanted Arthur bad). I don't think Larry Brown cares a whit whether the Bobcats make the playoffs next year. He is going to break it and rebuild it. On the bubble are Crash, Felts, Ammo and May. Okafor, JRich and Duds seem safe and rightfully so. I'm not so sure I'm down with that yet, though I can understand it. I had just hoped that the arrival of LB would foretell the refinement and development of what we had, not the destruction of it. Other than possibly Ammo (sorry Ammofans love ya, but you know where I am), I thought we had a good roster.

Again, I KNOW this is subjective. I know that DJ is probably better than I give him credit for. But sportsfandom is emotional and fickle. Its getting a hot dog and drinking a beer before taking your shirt off for the jumbotron. So unfortunately right now I'm a little upset. There was a lot of hype going into this draft, which for the most part was reconciled in the end to dissappointment, boredom, and Stuart Scott's bent up spectacles.

I see where your coming from.

but i dont think its fair to say that LB is tearing the team apart when we haven't lost a single player from last year. until something of substance actually happens rather than a rumor from some website that thrives on rumors for ad revenue, I dont think we should jump to conclusions.

And also i personally don't hold a candle for any one player. So if trading Felton makes this team better, I am all for it. BUT, I also love Ray because of the way he plays and I don't necessarily buy into the idea that DJ is pushing Felts out.

until LB, MJ, Higgins or some credible news source tells me that Felton is gone... im looking at this as a competition move. I dont really see how bringing in a top PG prospect hurts this team in anyway. theres only a few options. 1. Ray is pushed and plays better, becomes entrenched as our PG. 2. Ray gets better, DJ becomes long term backup and makes our PG rotation solid for a few years. 3. Ray gets pushed, doesnt respond well, meaning DJ has proven hes better. All three options make the Bobcats a better team i think.

[ziggy]

... I dont really see how bringing in a top PG prospect hurts this team in anyway. theres only a few options. 1. Ray is pushed and plays better, becomes entrenched as our PG. 2. Ray gets better, DJ becomes long term backup and makes our PG rotation solid for a few years. 3. Ray gets pushed, doesnt respond well, meaning DJ has proven hes better. All three options make the Bobcats a better team i think.
Thats exactly how I'm looking at it. Competition is always a good thing.
Either Ray is motivated by the competition and plays his ass of or DJ proves that he can run the team better than Ray. Either way, Bobcats fans win.

[swetooth9]

You're right, the draft pool for big men was weak. But couldn't we have packaged something to get a solid defensive prospect like Lopez (the OTHER Lopez, the one people are saying has the higher upside). Could we not have packaged say... Ammo and the 9 to move up into the top 5 to get someone like Kevin Love? Then use the 20 for a solid backup PG since thats basically all we have right now in Augustin?

I know it makes too much sense right?
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I am going to reserve judgement until we see what happens later in the trade market. If we pick up Rasheed Wallace then I'll shut up

how do you know that we didn't try and make trades like that to move up and draft love, etc. maybe the other team wanted too much (i.e. crash or something) for their pick. the thing is, we don't know. we addressed needs with DJ and Frenchie (if he plays), plus weaver for defense

looks good to me...but we'll just have to wait til they all actually play

[spectre]

Pretty sure I heard that the Sonics wanted Crash along with the 9th for the 4th pick. Even then I think the target was Westbrook instead of Love.

Neither player was worth Crash.

[Keetch]

Spectre I agree they wanted Westbrook bad, but I'm not sure they wouldn't have taken Love at the 4. I would have traded the 9 and Crash if I could land Love though, especially since 9 was coming up lame anyway.

I really think Love is a special special talent, though he lacks second jumpability. But the poor guy is in Minny now; lost forever.

We need to set up a "Save the Love" fund for Kevin. He needs us now more than ever.

How many guards does Memphis have? ConleyLowryMayoCrittenden

...and I love the Grizzlies website...it features a picture of Mayo and Arthur together with the option "Buy Season Tickets" or "No Thanks, Enter Grizzlies.com" if only they'd added a third "What the Hell, On Second Thought Buy Season Tickets"

I didn't realize they got Darrell Arthur. Good for them!

[spectre]

Heh, well let's just "agree to disagree" about Love for now. Being in Minny he's going to get lots of PT so he'll be able to show soon enough if he can play PF in the league at an above average rate.

I will agree though that after the top 3 he would have filled a need for us and been most likely to start soonest if not right out of the gate. Even if we'd took Westbrook I (and apparently LB) had him pegged as a 6th man for the near future.

For such a "deep" draft I don't think there really was a lot of starter material right away. Lot's of "solid" guys (and you need those), but no quick answers.

[spectre]

Now that I've had a couple of mornings (and able to take a breath...been slammed at work) AND since we should be getting these idiotic "Felton's outta here" threads/posts put to bed I'm ready to start getting excited about the additions.

We've went from a position of weakness at the PG/SG slot to one of strength.

No more Felts at the 2...Weaver can now fill that role. Not only does he bring handles to the SG position (one of the Idiot's complaints last year) he also brings defense (one of mine). Last year we had NO above average defender at SG; Swish is getting better but that's just approaching average. Hammer? Heh, I like the guy and he works hard trying, but defense will never be in his column on DX for "strength".

Felton was our best defender at the 2 last year. Pretty sad since he was usually giving up 6-8 inches, but there's no doubt he was the best between those 3. No longer.

Felton/NBDL player, Felton/TJ (and no Crash but still the injury concerns), Felton/Carter are inferior to Felton/DJ. We have 2 young very good PGs who are willing to learn, and they have one of the best teachers in the game. I also think they'll learn from each other. DJ can bring that change of pace Felts is weak on, and the kid shows a lot of poise on the court. Brown will preach that and Felts will get better in competing to do it.

DJ was a good strong pickup and I"m happy to have him. We've gotten stronger in positions of weakness and now we're down to fixing the 4/5. Maybe Ajinca will help there too.

DJ's got my support 100%.

[ziggy]

I like QCHoops take on Augustin in his latest blog entry
http://www.queencityhoops.com/2008DraftAugustin.php

What makes me feel most confident in DJ's chance is another former Texas player - T.J. Ford. Ford is about an inch taller than DJ, but DJ has the longer wingspan at 6-3.5 to 5-11.5. TJ has made his mark in the NBA due to his exceptional quickness...and DJ is quicker. At the pre-draft combine, TJ had times of 11.45 in the lane agility drill and 3.20 in the 3/4 court sprint: Both of those numbers were bested by DJ, at 11.27 and 3.07.

One more thing to like about DJ is his shooting ability - unlike Ford, it is not a skill he needs to learn. In his last season of college ball, TJ shot 40.1% from the floor, and 26.5% on threes. DJ is easily the superior marksman, at 43.9 and 38.1. Granted, Ford is probably the better passer, with slightly better court vision, but Augustin was still regarded as the second best pure point in the draft to Derrick Rose.

[swetooth9]

here's a workout vid he had for the Blazers...he looked pretty good playing with others...good passing, good splitting the D, and good pick-n-roll action

and of course, everyone knows I like guards who can shoot :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFwzQG-41aM

[kidk612]

Felton/NBDL player, Felton/TJ (and no Crash but still the injury concerns), Felton/Carter are inferior to Felton/DJ. We have 2 young very good PGs who are willing to learn, and they have one of the best teachers in the game. I also think they'll learn from each other. DJ can bring that change of pace Felts is weak on, and the kid shows a lot of poise on the court. Brown will preach that and Felts will get better in competing to do it.


What makes me feel most confident in DJ's chance is another former Texas player - T.J. Ford. Ford is about an inch taller than DJ, but DJ has the longer wingspan at 6-3.5 to 5-11.5. TJ has made his mark in the NBA due to his exceptional quickness...and DJ is quicker. At the pre-draft combine, TJ had times of 11.45 in the lane agility drill and 3.20 in the 3/4 court sprint: Both of those numbers were bested by DJ, at 11.27 and 3.07.

One more thing to like about DJ is his shooting ability - unlike Ford, it is not a skill he needs to learn. In his last season of college ball, TJ shot 40.1% from the floor, and 26.5% on threes. DJ is easily the superior marksman, at 43.9 and 38.1. Granted, Ford is probably the better passer, with slightly better court vision, but Augustin was still regarded as the second best pure point in the draft to Derrick Rose.

I like the fact that management is discussing the majority of our players around the league to gauge their value. The main thing I wasn't feeling about this TJ Ford/Crash business is the implication that we were fine with it straight up and it was them asking for more that killed it. But these posts got me thinking about it, and how often does MJ or anyone with the Bobcats reveal/admit to discussions like that? Why would he possibly tell media that, other than to publicly establish the asking price, in terms of our assets, for the top PG on the immediate trade market, who happens to be comparable with the PG they took at 9? Maybe he was trying to send the message, "Hey we're trying here with trades but would you really rather have TJ Ford/Brook Lopez instead of DJ/Crash?"

Who knows, maybe far fetched, but those comments make more sense from this POV. As for the other issues, if LB and MJ think DJ is a better fit than Bayless, I'll at least wait to see how it plays out. And it would have been nice to get Love or Westbrook, but it seems like the offer for us at 4 was 9/Crash and Memphis I believe wouldn't have even considered moving to 9 without dumping Cardinal's contract, for 9 and other assets. If these were the frameworks for those trade, I'll accept that neither would have been in our best interest.

[kidk612]

oops double post

[SWedd523]

Size has never really been an issue for Smurf. He's small, but his wingspan normally lets him get up there with some of the larger guards. His jumping ability (as seen on that poster of Lopez) is pretty good for someone his size.

But what really makes him a good player is his ability to get in the lane and use his body control to score. As seen in that Blazers workout video, he showed a good array of floaters and fade aways. That is crucial for a smaller player. The best way to compare him in the lane is the way Chris Paul scores with his floaters and body control.

Augustin is a good player and he has the potential to becomea very solid PG, he has what Felts doesn't--a consistent outside shot. If we're going to trade our starting PG then we need better talent in return than Lee or the ever injured TJ Ford.

He's going to be solid, don't worry. Point Guard is no longer a position of worry for us, neither is the 2. We have a solid guard lineup and our only issue is size and rebounding at the bigger spots

[ziggy]

Leave it to me to throw a little gasoline on the fire. :biggrin:

There are rumors being discussed at one of the top Portland Trailblazer blogs that the Bobcats were hoodwinked and bamboozled into taking DJ with the #9 pick. Apparently they were supposed to be drafting him for Portland, but the Blazers backed out of the agreement once they still had Bayless available.

Linkage -- > http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/6/28/560930/anatomy-of-a-pritchslap-pa

[spectre]

Leave it to me to throw a little gasoline on the fire. :biggrin:

There are rumors being discussed at one of the top Portland Trailblazer blogs that the Bobcats were hoodwinked and bamboozled into taking DJ with the #9 pick. Apparently they were supposed to be drafting him for Portland, but the Blazers backed out of the agreement once they still had Bayless available.

Linkage -- > http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/6/28/560930/anatomy-of-a-pritchslap-pa

No way! Jordan has a history of....oh wait. Well, Pritchard has shown he's not that good of a...damn.

But we drafted DJ to come in and start from Day 1 to supplant the miserable Felton! We really do want to play the whole upcoming season with an undersized rookie PG because our Coach has a history of loving rookies!. All those things Brown has said to the media about Felton being a good point guard and how he'd only play him at the 1 as well as Higgins saying Felton was our starter going into training camp was just smoke!

Crap, that doesn't sound right either.

We'd never have traded back, Portland doesn't have the pieces we needed that they'd give up...yikes...except for Frye (who LB liked) and Jack. Shoot, I guess they do.

No way!

[ohara831]

Spectre:

You are losing your positive edge. Getting way too cynical for the Spectre I have known over the past year. You need to find your happy place and go there to regain that positive edge. Things are not nearly as bad as you are saying, and you know we have the FA signing period coming up. Something is planned, so you just have to remain positive and have faith. We will have a good team this season. Confidence my fellow Bobcat fan, gotta have that confidence.

[spectre]

Spectre:

You are losing your positive edge. Getting way too cynical for the Spectre I have known over the past year. You need to find your happy place and go there to regain that positive edge. Things are not nearly as bad as you are saying, and you know we have the FA signing period coming up. Something is planned, so you just have to remain positive and have faith. We will have a good team this season. Confidence my fellow Bobcat fan, gotta have that confidence.

If I've grown cyincal it's because of the stupidity that's reigned since draft night. I can either get mad or I can throw out enough sarcasm that the people throwing out this craziness will hopefully see just how bad it is.

You don't think this was a possibility? Didn't we all discuss this trade extensively weeks leading up to the draft? Heck, most were saying a deal like this made the most sense!

I don't know if it's true or not, nor does it really matter. I'm fine running with what we have. "Something is planned" is your opinion and goes against what Higgins said the other day. According to him we're going into Vegas and we'll see if Anjinca can potentially log meaningful minutes this year. If not, then it sounded like we'd look to use the MLE on another big.

Since we added depth instead of a starter in a position of need Crash can't be traded...unless anyone's comfortable starting Ammo and Duds at the 3, and even IF DJ was brought in to supplant Felton there's no way in hell we do it right now. Continually repeating it goes against everything the team has put out and everything Bonnell's been reporting. It also goes against common sense.

[chabber]

Spectre, what were you wanting on draft night? I know you liked Mayo/Westbrook and were looking for a wing defender. I agree that now we really can't afford to look at a Wallace trade to fill our PF need because of that.

Were you wanting us to make a trade like the Frye/Jack topic that kept coming up on these boards, draft Lopez, Bayless? I guess I just haven't read why your frustrated yet other than maybe our management isn't the best which is agreeable and then fan reaction like you just mentioned. I feel bad that you seem so dissapointed. :( If it's just over fan reaction then that's better. I didn't and still don't understand anyone thinking Felton is on his way out just because of DJ.

As for the draft selections personally I never liked the Jack/Frye or any combination of trade with Portland. I know they add some depth but I don't care for either player. When it came down to Bayless, Lopez, Augustine I like DJ's fit better than those two.

[Icky Thump]

There is probably some craziness behind draft night to explain the little we added coming out of it. I've stated the reasons I was disappointed. We had 3 picks and some trade ability but stayed put and drafted backup players. We can't really make strides doing these things people. This franchise is in dire need of moves such as Portland has made... I know we haven't quite had their luck but sometimes your "luck" is made and we haven't done that for ourselves with this draft...

[chabber]

I see what you mean. Ok so it sounds like maybe yours and spectre's frustration with the draft is their inablitliy to make moves or get players that would make a profound impact and that you think we settled or were out manuvered by other teams which has happened in the past multiple times for far better players. (Paul, Aldridge)

I agree though. To me this all started years ago. My biggest worry was that we'd turn into a what we are now. We've gotten ourselve in a hole where we're not good enough to make the playoffs but we're not bad enough to luck into finding a superstar in the draft.

Right now I at least find comfort in knowing that we have LB as a coach who knows what he wants on both sides of the ball. That's a first for our team. I think he was telling the truth when he said most of the guys besides the few up front will be backups their first year or so. It's not sexy or pretty but that's what we have for now and as long as they were really the choices that LB wanted I'm pleased and for now just hoping that they pan out.

[dnbman]

I see what you mean. Ok so it sounds like maybe yours and spectre's frustration with the draft is their inablitliy to make moves or get players that would make a profound impact and that you think we settled or were out manuvered by other teams which has happened in the past multiple times for far better players. (Paul, Aldridge)

I agree though. To me this all started years ago. My biggest worry was that we'd turn into a what we are now. We've gotten ourselve in a hole where we're not good enough to make the playoffs but we're not bad enough to luck into finding a superstar in the draft.

Right now I at least find comfort in knowing that we have LB as a coach who knows what he wants on both sides of the ball. That's a first for our team. I think he was telling the truth when he said most of the guys besides the few up front will be backups their first year or so. It's not sexy or pretty but that's what we have for now and as long as they were really the choices that LB wanted I'm pleased and for now just hoping that they pan out.

I think there are two overall moods critical of the draft:

1. No fireworks. We didn't make a big trade up to get a top 3 pick or choose a truly electrifying player that will change our team dramatically this season. We also didn't trade for a veteran like we did with JRich last year. I don't consider myself remotely in this camp, but heard a lot of people desperately wanting the big trade to happen.

2. We've set our timetable for success back even further. Despite addressing needs that could have even greater long term advantage (Augustine and Ajinca), we did little that will make a huge impact this coming season. Most of the people in this camp like most of our players and want to see us add the right players around them to make the whole machine work. There seemed to be a variety of options to make this work, including a gimme pick of Darrell Arthur at 20 that would have been perfect. Instead, we have a two headed point guard beast (that will bite who? the competition or each other?) and a project 4. And given that we wanted Augustine, it seems a shame that we couldn't work out some kind of trade that would have allowed us to get Augustine and something else. Granted, we didn't have a lot of room to work with to make this happen, as he would have been drafted only a couple of picks after us. But that didn't stop Portland from making similar moves the last couple of years. And, such expectations could be unfairly put on the Bobcats because of the magic that has been Portland the last couple of seasons.

The bottom line for camp #2 I think comes back to the idea that we already have great players and just need the right coach, which we have, and the right complimentary talent to make it work. We didn't do that unless you were of the mind that we didn't have a true point guard. I think we do.

I'm happy with what we have now and look forward to another fun season. However, the draft had a feel for rebuilding more than it did taking us to the next level, despite the difference we already will expect for Brown's coaching over Vincent's. We made our backcourt better, which is great. We added a perimeter defender, which is great. We added a possible 4/5 that COULD give us a lot of things we don't have, which is great. But there were a lot of different ways that this draft could have played out where we would be better next season. Who knows if we would have been better in 3-4 seasons?

I'm going to be positive from here on out. My positivity will certainly be more bountiful if the talk of Felton and Wallace being traded for marginal talent dies down.

[spectre]

Chabber you should post more often.

Nah, I'm ok with what we came out with, it's the idiocy after the fact. I did want to move up and get Beasley or Mayo but by draft day I wasn't too hopeful, and from the rumored costs I think we did the right thing. DJ is far and away a better backup than anything else in FA or in reasonable trade scenarios. We're much more solid now. He might even snatch the starting gig one day and that's another good thing. Go for quality.

I did want Westbrook but at 9th...IMO he's too risky any higher. I brought it up a couple weeks ago and posters did have good arguments, but I see the possibility that he could end up like Corey Brewer. Besides, taking Weaver (assuming he can log actual PT) covered my concerns on perimeter D and handles at the 2.

The biggest thing that got in my craw was that 1) Jordan actually considered trading Crash for TJ and 2) he was stupid enough to announce it publicly. Add that to normally sane people going whacked out over trading players that would create additional holes/weakness is keeping me frustrated.

I'm fine with the way the draft came out. I wanted a more dependable 4, but we did shore up other issues. Combined with a real coach I'm excited about this year.

It just can't start soon enough.

[dvdbumpus]

Right now I at least find comfort in knowing that we have LB as a coach who knows what he wants on both sides of the ball. That's a first for our team. I think he was telling the truth when he said most of the guys besides the few up front will be backups their first year or so. It's not sexy or pretty but that's what we have for now and as long as they were really the choices that LB wanted I'm pleased and for now just hoping that they pan out.

+1 Chabber. I'm with you.

[ziggy]

Chabber you should post more often.

Nah, I'm ok with what we came out with, it's the idiocy after the fact. I did want to move up and get Beasley or Mayo but by draft day I wasn't too hopeful, and from the rumored costs I think we did the right thing. DJ is far and away a better backup than anything else in FA or in reasonable trade scenarios. We're much more solid now. He might even snatch the starting gig one day and that's another good thing. Go for quality.

I did want Westbrook but at 9th...IMO he's too risky any higher. I brought it up a couple weeks ago and posters did have good arguments, but I see the possibility that he could end up like Corey Brewer. Besides, taking Weaver (assuming he can log actual PT) covered my concerns on perimeter D and handles at the 2.

The biggest thing that got in my craw was that 1) Jordan actually considered trading Crash for TJ and 2) he was stupid enough to announce it publicly. Add that to normally sane people going whacked out over trading players that would create additional holes/weakness is keeping me frustrated.

I'm fine with the way the draft came out. I wanted a more dependable 4, but we did shore up other issues. Combined with a real coach I'm excited about this year.

It just can't start soon enough.

I'm still confused over why MJ would bring that up publicly. There was nothing positive that could come out of MJ making that statement, Only negatives.

[Slam]

One more thing to like about DJ is his shooting ability - unlike Ford, it is not a skill he needs to learn. In his last season of college ball, TJ shot 40.1% from the floor, and 26.5% on threes. DJ is easily the superior marksman, at 43.9 and 38.1. Granted, Ford is probably the better passer, with slightly better court vision, but Augustin was still regarded as the second best pure point in the draft to Derrick Rose.

No way does TJ have better passing or court vision than DJ. DJ is better at both. A LOT better. The only two things I can think of that TJ is better than DJ at is that he is a more explosive athelete and is a more passionate/vocal floor general.

Great to see you have come around Spectre. I think you'll really like DJ. Someone in this thread mentioned that DJ will be good for Felts because DJ might be able to help him with his poise etc. I hadn't thought of that and it's very true.

I'm really excited to have Felts as our point and DJ backing him up. I think we are very lucky.

[chabber]

OK I got you and those are totally understandable concerns. ;)

MJ's openness to the media was ridiculous. I didn't get that at all and I'm sure he's regretting those statements now.

I saw a lot of people trying to trade off Felton but it was even worse on other boards. (not here or realgm) People were going crazy because we didn't draft Lopez and that was driving me batty. It seems most of them are casual fans (nothing wrong with that and we need them) and don't think Mek is a C or were just following ESPN's lead. They didn't take into consideration that we could get a big later and the better guards would be gone. So I totally understand your frustrations there too. We did end up with a guy who could be a project but at #20 I think he's well worth the pick. I'm really looking forward to seeing him play.

As for me not posting a lot, it all depends on work. Also this draft we had a lower pick and the range of guys we might select was to great. I don't enjoy college ball much so if I can't pick out 3 or 4 guys who i think we might be looking at I usually just ignore watching them all together. So in that regard anything I know about the players in the draft is just from stuff I've read and what their pluses and minuses might be and I'd just be regurgitating what others have already seen themselves. :) I should be more active in the upcoming FA stuff though. I watch the NBA games non stop so I'll have lots of opinions on what we should do. :)

[chabber]

Ok here is a concern I do have about DJ and it's the obvious one which is his height. It's one of the reasons I didn't like BK as our starter. The other being his lack of 3 point range. Although D.J seems to almost be 6ft with his shoes on and looks to have some NBA range so that is already an improvement over Knight.

For the guys that have seen him play, if he turns into our starter, do you think his height will effect DJ very much? Getting his shot off in the lane etc..? If not what about in a playoff type atmosphere where he could have a bigger guard like Wade or even a Marion put on him to help stifle our offense? Do you think he has enough quickness/smarts to deal with those matchups? Obviously this is just speculation but anybody who seen him feel free to comment.

I'll tell you what I like from the videos I've seen. I love how he plays the pick and roll. He can split it, come off and knock down the jumper. Doesn't rush it. He has the in lane floaters it seems and also he doesn't look out of control or uncomfortable when he gets in the paint or attacks the basket. I've also seen him dribble sideways to escape pressure and find the open spot and pull up like Paul does. Those are at least some of the pluses I've seen from him. What about some of the negatives? How are his hands, defense? Does he try or do guys pretty much burn him?

[SWedd523]

Well in hindsight, looking at Chad Ford's Big Board--DJ and Frenchie are ranked 10th and 22nd respectively, so we have pretty good "talent" for the spots.

I guess Augustin will do fine as a backup for now--starter for the future. Chabber has hit the nail squarely on the head. We are stuck in a sort of no man's land where we don't seem to be good enough to be a consistent playoff participant, but we're not bad enough to get a pick of the top talent in the draft.

We DID pick safe. In fact, Augustin has a slightly higher PER than Derrick Rose. Ford has made a comment about Augustin saying he is a "Spunky point guard has a game that resembles that of Steve Nash."

I'd be fine with taking a player in the mold of Steve Nash;)

[Silverback47]

Here's what I like about this draft: we got two guys who, even if they play as backups, can get consistent offense and they look like they should work well together. DJ and Ajinca can come in and play the pick-and-roll game as well as anybody should be able to: DJ can shoot and get to the basket to either lay it in or create, and Ajinca can hit the open jumper and he also seems like a pretty deft passer. For this season they can give the second team an identity, beyond this season they can be a pretty consistent force.

[SWedd523]

Ok here is a concern I do have about DJ and it's the obvious one which is his height. It's one of the reasons I didn't like BK as our starter. The other being his lack of 3 point range. Although D.J seems to almost be 6ft with his shoes on and looks to have some NBA range so that is already an improvement over Knight.

For the guys that have seen him play, if he turns into our starter, do you think his height will effect DJ very much? Getting his shot off in the lane etc..? If not what about in a playoff type atmosphere where he could have a bigger guard like Wade or even a Marion put on him to help stifle our offense? Do you think he has enough quickness/smarts to deal with those matchups? Obviously this is just speculation but anybody who seen him feel free to comment.

I'll tell you what I like from the videos I've seen. I love how he plays the pick and roll. He can split it, come off and knock down the jumper. Doesn't rush it. He has the in lane floaters it seems and also he doesn't look out of control or uncomfortable when he gets in the paint or attacks the basket. I've also seen him dribble sideways to escape pressure and find the open spot and pull up like Paul does. Those are at least some of the pluses I've seen from him. What about some of the negatives? How are his hands, defense? Does he try or do guys pretty much burn him?

lol you kind of answered your own question with that last paragraph. In the games and videos I've seen of DJ, it seems like his troubles arise with playing bigger athletic guards (Derrick Rose in the Tournament comes to mind). He's a strong body and a spunky defender, he has pretty good hands. He does fine with guards his size and ones that aren't TOO much bigger or athletic.

There aren't many Derrick Roses out there so we shouldn't have too much of a problem with him. He can use his quickness to get by defenders that play tight and he can use his range and pretty high release to shoot over the ones sitting back

[Slam]

For the guys that have seen him play, if he turns into our starter, do you think his height will effect DJ very much? Getting his shot off in the lane etc..? If not what about in a playoff type atmosphere where he could have a bigger guard like Wade or even a Marion put on him to help stifle our offense? Do you think he has enough quickness/smarts to deal with those matchups? Obviously this is just speculation but anybody who seen him feel free to comment.

I'll tell you what I like from the videos I've seen. I love how he plays the pick and roll. He can split it, come off and knock down the jumper. Doesn't rush it. He has the in lane floaters it seems and also he doesn't look out of control or uncomfortable when he gets in the paint or attacks the basket. I've also seen him dribble sideways to escape pressure and find the open spot and pull up like Paul does. Those are at least some of the pluses I've seen from him. What about some of the negatives? How are his hands, defense? Does he try or do guys pretty much burn him?

I don't think that his size will effect his ability to drive the lane any more than Chris Paul's size effects him. He has increadable quickness and a very, very high BBIQ so if someone like Marion was guarding him what we'd lose on D we'd make up on offensive with DJ burning him.

Texas plays the pick and roll a lot so he is very good in that situation. He's great at splitting defenses with his dribble and either pulling up for the shot himself, taking to the rack or finding the open cutting man. He's also good at defending the pick and roll and knows when to go over it or under it.

He has a variety of offensive moves. A great step back. A nice floater, he drives both left and right. He uses finger rolls and reverse layups.

His Texas team mates used to call him "mini Nash", after two time MVP Steve!!

[ELEVATION]

I think DJ Augistine could be the true "sleeper" in this draft. He has been a proven pg at Texas with quickness and great passing ability. He also averaged 14.4 ppg on 45% shooting and 44% from beyond the arc, proving that he is also capable of shooting when defenses slack off on him ... Also a very good free throw shooter at 84%.

[spectre]

If you remember Slam I was never against DJ...just wanted to cover the 2 weaknesses with one position. Adding Walker helped take care of that.

Hell I was fine Friday morning...it was after I logged on and saw the Crash/TJ thing and then all the other craziness that sent me near the edge.

I hear ya Chabber...I bet I didn't see 10 games of college ball this year. One of the players I did see however was DJ. Slam clued me in on the guy halfway thru the season so I made an effort to catch some of Texas' games. Probably caught at least 3 or 4.

I'm not that worried about his height (I hated BK's size too) and I'm not too concerned with him defensively. I don't think he'll be as good as Felts (esp. being posted up), but that's because Felts is so stocky and can hold his ground better. DJ is FAST and he has very good lateral reaction. He's also has a well above average wingspan. Some are going to give him fits...the post up guards, the driving above average sized guys...but for the most part I think he'll hold his own.

And that was me that said DJ might could help Felts work on his poise. Offensively I really have no worries. Just like with Paul (tho I'd never call DJ "Chris Paul Lite" :hypo: ) he has that hesitation thing in the paint going on which more times than not screws up the defender and allows for good play.

We are lucky to have such a strong PG tandem.

[chabber]

lol you kind of answered your own question with that last paragraph.

Yeah I know but the vids I saw were just samples of his game ya know what I mean. I figured someone here had watched a bunch of Texas games and seen him in game and not on a highlight reel. ;)


I don't think that his size will effect his ability to drive the lane any more than Chris Paul's size effects him. He has increadable quickness and a very, very high BBIQ so if someone like Marion was guarding him what we'd lose on D we'd make up on offensive with DJ burning him.

Texas plays the pick and roll a lot so he is very good in that situation. He's great at splitting defenses with his dribble and either pulling up for the shot himself, taking to the rack or finding the open cutting man. He's also good at defending the pick and roll and knows when to go over it or under it.

He has a variety of offensive moves. A great step back. A nice floater, he drives both left and right. He uses finger rolls and reverse layups.

His Texas team mates used to call him "mini Nash", after two time MVP Steve!!

Wow, that really makes me feel good. Not that he'll turn out to be Nash or anything but if he can play the pick and roll like that and we can get someone in here to help him out he might just be my new favorite player. :) If his BBIQ is as high as it seems then we definitely made the correct pick because our guys can be dumb as bricks sometimes. lol

[chabber]

If you remember Slam I was never against DJ...just wanted to cover the 2 weaknesses with one position. Adding Walker helped take care of that.

Hell I was fine Friday morning...it was after I logged on and saw the Crash/TJ thing and then all the other craziness that sent me near the edge.

I hear ya Chabber...I bet I didn't see 10 games of college ball this year. One of the players I did see however was DJ. Slam clued me in on the guy halfway thru the season so I made an effort to catch some of Texas' games. Probably caught at least 3 or 4.

I'm not that worried about his height (I hated BK's size too) and I'm not too concerned with him defensively. I don't think he'll be as good as Felts (esp. being posted up), but that's because Felts is so stocky and can hold his ground better. DJ is FAST and he has very good lateral reaction. He's also has a well above average wingspan. Some are going to give him fits...the post up guards, the driving above average sized guys...but for the most part I think he'll hold his own.

And that was me that said DJ might could help Felts work on his poise. Offensively I really have no worries. Just like with Paul (tho I'd never call DJ "Chris Paul Lite" :hypo: ) he has that hesitation thing in the paint going on which more times than not screws up the defender and allows for good play.

We are lucky to have such a strong PG tandem.

This is good to hear also. A little bit about his defense was another question I was asking. At his height that sounds about right. If he is as smart on the offensive side of the ball as it seems he may be, and can keep some quick footwork on defense to consistantly lead guys to certain areas that's all I'd really ask of him. Getting posted up by PG's I've never really minded. There aren't too many guards that do that and it usually takes the other team out of their normal offense when they try it. So all in all if he plays up to his potential I think I'll be even more satisfied being that now I've heard from some guys I trust that have actually watched him play. :)

[swetooth9]

Like I've posted a few other times, I like the DJ pick. He seems to be a good fit with this team, trying to get everyone involved. Hopefully he will make Jrich and GWallace even better than they are, getting them the ball where they are most effective.

DJ is very quick and has great handles to get where he wants to go. His shot is consistent, and he will not hesitate to shoot if his defender slacks off, which I love. His wingspan (6'3ish), makes up for his height (5'11"), so he will be able to get steals and bother shooters hopefully.

All in all, I'm happy with DJ, but will not expect too much of him because that would not be fair for a rookie. Plus if we expect too much, we are more likely to be disappointed. I'm just going to expect a good effort from him, and some smart decisions when he gets playing time. If he gives us that, I'll be happy.

[Muttley]

Yeah, swetooth9, I think DJ will come in and just be a solid PG. If he can do that, then we made a good choice in the draft because it was a position of need and we addressed it. Most people just seem to be pissed about it because it wasn't what they wanted to happen. (Some have argued that we should have drafted Lopez, but we don't really need a C. We have two good ones in Mek and Nazr.)

[Dunk]

Based on what I know, which admittedly isn't that much about DJ, I'll give him a fair shake. He was a very good player in college. There's been a number of guards that came in and did much better than expected in the NBA. I was more concerned about Ajinca than anything. I'm not going to complain about this pick.

[ReesieNCPantherCatfan1]

I think the DJ pick is solid, i would've preferred lopez here, but I will give him a chance. I like the pure PG idea, a pass first player makes everyone happy, and creates more players moving without the ball. I am more worried about the Ajinca pick. He reminds me of the Sonics pick in 2006 with Mouhamed Sene. Sene was a 6'11 project with a 7' 8" wingspan from Africa who did nothing overseas. His measurables were off the charts, but when it came down to it he has done nothing for the Sonics with a 2 ppg average.

To be fair he has only been in the league for 2 years, so he may very well blossom, but I just don't have a good feeling about this pick. I prefer results to projects, and if Ajinca can't dominate basketball in France with that wingspan (regardless of the reasons), what makes us think he will be productive in the States? At least we are lottery protected on this pick with the Nuggets, and plenty of picks at #20 don't pan out. Hope I'm wrong on this one, but I don't like it.

[Slam]

Sene and Ajinca are nothing alike.

Sene is a defensive specialist who has nothing that resembles an offensive game.

Ajinca can drain 3 balls!!

It's like comparing Diop to Okur

[Slam]

double post

[ReesieNCPantherCatfan1]

One is 6'11 with a 7' 8" wingspan, the other is 7' with a 7' 8" wingspan, neither of which did anything overseas. Perhaps they have a different game, but there are certainly many similarities.

I hope for the best with him on our team, but I certainly think it is a valid comparison of two freakishly long players who didn't dominate inferior competition overseas. I hope I rejoice at the pick two years from now, but I am afraid he is twiggy #2.

[Muttley]

One is 6'11 with a 7' 8" wingspan, the other is 7' with a 7' 8" wingspan, neither of which did anything overseas. Perhaps they have a different game, but there are certainly many similarities.

I hope for the best with him on our team, but I certainly think it is a valid comparison of two freakishly long players who didn't dominate inferior competition overseas. I hope I rejoice at the pick two years from now, but I am afraid he is twiggy #2.

Twigs averaged about 7 points and 5 rebounds in his last year at UCLA. This while playing 21 minutes. In the NCAAs.

By stats comparison, Ajinca almost has to be more productive than Ryan. He put up similar numbers in a professional league (albiet a French one) in less minutes. It is worth concerning ourselves with why he only played so few minutes (perhaps he had a coach that didn't like to play rookies?). However, I think he will be more productive and make faster progress than Hollins.

[Slam]

One is 6'11 with a 7' 8" wingspan, the other is 7' with a 7' 8" wingspan, neither of which did anything overseas. Perhaps they have a different game, but there are certainly many similarities.

I hope for the best with him on our team, but I certainly think it is a valid comparison of two freakishly long players who didn't dominate inferior competition overseas. I hope I rejoice at the pick two years from now, but I am afraid he is twiggy #2.

Like you, I have an "i", an "s" and a "a" in my screen name.

I guess that means there are certainly many similarities between you and me too?

[ReesieNCPantherCatfan1]

Good one. I guess you missed the bigger point I was trying to make is that both are projects who have done nothing against inferior competition. You don't agree, well that's your right. And yes, in addition to having an "i", "s", "a" in our screen names the fact that both of us are on this board months before any meaningful games are played probably makes us pretty similar as well.
Like you, I have an "i", an "s" and a "a" in my screen name.

I guess that means there are certainly many similarities between you and me too?

[dnbman]

Good one. I guess you missed the bigger point I was trying to make is that both are projects who have done nothing against inferior competition. You don't agree, well that's your right. And yes, in addition to having an "i", "s", "a" in our screen names the fact that both of us are on this board months before any meaningful games are played probably makes us pretty similar as well.

I'm not saying you're wrong about "inferior competition," but I think it's a dangerous assumption to make. Nobody's claiming that Euro leagues are superior to NBA competition. However, there's plenty of reason to believe that Euro leagues are the second best leagues in the world, including NCAA. These are professional teams with quicker, stronger players. So, the fact that a guy hasn't done a whole lot at 19 in one of these leagues doesn't mean he's a complete project. It simply means he was a 19 year old kid playing in a adult league where young talent is not as important as playing winning basketball. Batum is another example of a guy who didn't set his pro team on fire but showed obvious talent and skill. If you looked at his stats from a year ago, you'd wonder why he was even considering the lottery, when he was projected top 10.

We should definitely pause before we consider this kid a starter. However, he seems to have demonstrated pretty good skills, raw talent, and the character to impress Larry "Play The Right Way" Brown. I don't think he's the second coming of KG, but I think there's plenty of reason to be more hopeful than Hollins II, who never demonstrated any skills except raw athleticism at any point in his career.

[Slam]

The bigger point is that you said:


His (Sene) measurables were off the charts, but when it came down to it he has done nothing for the Sonics with a 2 ppg average.

insinuating that Sene was meant to be some sort of offensive monster when in fact, all he is, and ever will be, is a shot blocker. Then you compared him to Ajinca............because they are both international players and are long?

You would have done better to compare Sene to Diop and Ajinca to Bargs.

But you didn't - thus making your point invaild.

[ReesieNCPantherCatfan1]

Well it's obvious that you are the type person who has to win and get the last word, so I will concede defeat. You post many times, and are well versed in basketball, perhaps I should have compared him to someone else. Now can we stop beating this dead horse?

My hope, like you, is that Ajinca is a stud in our uniform, and has a great career.

[Slam]

Well it's obvious that you are the type person who has to win and get the last word.

No I'm not!!



;)

[Ghost Kat]

I'm posting this later then everyone else, But i hope by now you see this was a good pick for the team. This means a fast faced game with J Rich and GW3 as the wings on a fast break Omeka as the trailer. Speedy guards make easy shots for everyone else on the break.