DJ Augustin Pros and Cons

[victory88]

New poster here. I am a current longhorn and have watched DJ play every game the last 2 years. I will now give you all a more indepth break down on him.

First, I was a bit shocked at the reaction on this board about this pick. Maybe it's the UNC bias with Felton, but it seems like most of yall weren't too welcoming when he was drafted. I personally wanted to see DJ with the Blazers. Word is that portland fell in love with him and it looked like he was going to end up there.

1) First of all, i really find it funny that some people on here have already declared DJ's ceiling as a back-up. I just want to ask, what are you basing this off of? People really underestimate him on this board. The kid was a 1st team all-american and won the Bob Cousy award in a year that was loaded with very talented point gaurds. He was regarded as the best pure point gaurd last year until Rose exploded later in the year, especially at the tournament.

2) His height. This is what he gets criticized the most for by people that have never watched him play. People always mention that he was dominated by Rose. That's true, but Rose dominated every player during that tournament. However, people forget how DJ dominated the UCLA gaurds and the Kansas gaurds earlier in the season. He ran circles around Collison, Westbrook, and chalmers. There isn't a Derrick Rose on every team in the NBA. DJ will be fine.

3) His athleticisim. People on here have said he isn't athletic. Once again, this is coming from people that have never seen him play. It's hard to find highlights on him, but i'll assure you, his athleticism is the least of his problems.

Now that i got those off my chest, i can give you a little break down.

People like to compare DJ to Chris Paul. But once again, they've never seen DJ play. Almost everyone that has seen him play, would compare him to Steve Nash.

Pros:
- DJ is excellent at handling the ball. He is the main reason Texas led the nation in the least amount of turnovers.
- His quickness is very deceptive. He has one of the fastest 1st steps. This is one of the main reasons he is great at getting to the hole. He doesn't have the fastest top end speed, but he is one of the quickest.
- He has a very polished offense game. He can shoot the floater, drive, and takes many unbalanced shots that you see Nash take.
- He is by far the best PG with the pick and roll in this years draft. Anyone will tell you, that is what Rick Barnes ran at Texas. Pick and roll, Pick and roll, Pick and roll.
- High basketball IQ. He also had a 4.0 GPA and was named Academic All-american.
-He is a 85% FT shooter and is a good 3 point shooter.

Cons:
- He can be a defensive liability. This in my opinion is his biggest weakness. This is where you see the issue with height. People like to say it's because he's short. Well, that's not true. DJ has struggled against point gaurds his same size or even smaller.

Conclusion: This kid is a great point gaurd. He has great vision, can score, and will be the team general. His weakness is his defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY0-eKiFERo

I think many of you will be surprised with his scoring abilities. I agree with most of you. I think the bobcats should have picked Lopez, but that doesn't mean he's better than DJ. It just means he fits your need better. However, i'm not that impressed with him. Our 6'10 Center shut him down when Texas played Stanford. In the end, the Bobcats selected DJ. Maybe it's the UNC bias, or frustration, but there is no need to bash a kid like some of you all did on draft night. Here's to a great season, and hopefully sean may and morrison actually playing to their potential.

[swetooth9]

great info on DJ...thanks for posting

just about everything i thought/knew about him, but from a more credible source (an avid texas fan)

i watched him and would agree with what you have said

I am one of the ones who didn't really bash DJ, but rather was just surprised we went with him over bayless...but after a few days, i'm glad we have DJ because he is supposed to be one of the best pure PG's in this draft class..plus he can shoot! i hate it when there are good PG's but they can't shoot for crap, so they are predicatble...

thanks, and enjoy the forums

[ohara831]

Thank you very much for your post. I am very pleased we chose DJ, and look for great things from him in the very near future.

[Icky Thump]

Thanks for the analysis. I don't believe for most of us HERE at BobcatsPlanet you could say there is an issue with a bias for UNC or against any other college team or players (that would just be stupid really). We just want the best for the Charlotte Bobcats. I can't speak for every one else out there but in general I believe the disappointment stems not from Augustin's abilities or lack there of but in the fact that the Bobcats failed to address the true need of the team (Quality Post Player Please).

I believe that Augustin is a talented player just as Felton was coming out of college. Both led very successful teams before heading to the NBA. I can't deny my concern about Augustin's height in the NBA (not that it is most important and he does have good reach) as it may or may not be a factor in the long run. I'm sure Augustin will be a quality NBA guard (as is Felton) but the reason for so much disdain for the pick wasn't totally about Augustin it was in the general lack of vision by the Bobcats to move to get what they really needed in a post player.

We essentially took a player that will split time in the back court when we had 3 picks and some trade pieces available to us and I think a good bit of us would've liked to get someone who would be able to make more of an impact in the post (and it has nothing to do with his talent, its just we already have a talented point guard on top of Augustin). If I was a Longhorn fan I would actually be somewhat disappointed in the fact that Augustin went to a team where he would see limited time. Again this isn't to say that Augustin isn't a quality player or that he doesn't help make our team better. It will definitely be nice to have two very talented young players at the PG spot!

I'll certainly be wishing the best for Augustin and hope to see him have a great career as a Bobcat.

Welcome to The Planet!

[timang]

i was actually all for DJ when we got the pick, even defended the pick against a tr0ll in here at the draft, but when all these talks about ray felton getting shipped out really made me question my liking for the pick. the issue is not about him, as i myself think he's gonna have a good if not great career in the NBA, but it's really about how(or how not) the management solves our bigger problems that's being discussed over here. i am very positive that a ray/smurf point is an awesome thing, but if we're going to lose ray then i think it'll hurt.

[Jonathanmartin7]

Welcome to the board!! I was very, very unhappy that we drafted DJ with the #9 pick. We have a PG, a very good one, we needed and still need a guy that can play down low. I was angrier with the #20 pick, a C that will take at least one year if not 3 to develop. Then in the 2nd round we draft another guard!

I however am glad that we have DJ, wether he starts or backs up Felton he will contribute alot to this team. I think that the Bobcats will now have one of the best PG tandems in the league. If DJ was 6 inches taller we'd have the best backcourt in our division.

So once again, welcome to the board, hope to read a lot of your post and I'm sorry if some members bashed DJ. I don't think they meant it as "he can't play, is too short, etc". I think everybody expected us to get a big man to help us NOW. That is why I thought we got the other first round pick was to trade it along with the 9th to get a quality big man. Instead, out of the entire draft we end up with one pick out of three that has enough talent to play in the NBA today, and that's your boy(and now our's) DJ Augustine.

Gonna Rep you up just for such a good first post. You seemed like you were mad, or insulted by somebody else, but instead of yelling or crying you brought real facts and you were polite in the process.

[victory88]

Thanks for all the responses. Since draft night, i've spend alot of time reading and surfing bobcat forums. I have to admit, i'm really starting to like this team. There are some really solid players on this team that are a strong group of core players. It may take a little longer, but with a few more pieces, this is definitely a strong playoff team.

I really hope MJ and Larry don't trade away the core pieces of this team. I don't know much about the contracts or players, but it seems that if the staff packaged May, Morrison, and a few 1st round picks for a servicable Center and then picked up a few vetern guys like Kurt Thomas, this team could be very hard to beat.

[Slam]

If nothing else we just got a hell of a lot stronger thanks to drafting DJ.

Can't even begin to tell you how happy I am to know that when Felts subs out, instead of having to watch McMinus or the Midget sub in, an actual, skilled, impressive PG will be subbing in to take his place.

That alone makes us better IMO.

Happy days!

[dav7z]

Thanks for all the responses. Since draft night, i've spend alot of time reading and surfing bobcat forums. I have to admit, i'm really starting to like this team. There are some really solid players on this team that are a strong group of core players. It may take a little longer, but with a few more pieces, this is definitely a strong playoff team.

I really hope MJ and Larry don't trade away the core pieces of this team. I don't know much about the contracts or players, but it seems that if the staff packaged May, Morrison, and a few 1st round picks for a servicable Center and then picked up a few vetern guys like Kurt Thomas, this team could be very hard to beat.

First welcome to Bobcatsplanet. I like some of the others bashed D.J . at first knowing all along we needed a power foward. Really i have nothing at all against D.J and hope he can push Felton for the starting point. My fear is the[ past ]of of playing Felton at the shooting guard, the BK. Felts back court . Hope we don't end up seeing a D.J , Felts back court as playing two small points just don't work. But i say now play both points but just don't go with a small line up most of the game. Im starting to feel better and better about the DJ pick and looking foward to seeing both bust tail for the starting gig.

[Muttley]

Im starting to feel better and better about the DJ pick and looking foward to seeing both bust tail for the starting gig.

I think they will bust tail for the starting spot, Dav7z. Keep in mind that we have an actual coach now. If Larry plays Felton at the 2 with DJ at the 1, then I'd say we can narrow down the problem to being raymond.

I don't see that being the case, though. I think we'll have two solid floor generals.
Imagine, Raymond takes a rest and we barely skip a beat!
Slam's right. Our first PG sub will no longer be Jeff McInnis or Boykins.

[peapod]

Welcome to the board victory88. Thanks for the analysis. I also agree with you that we should have taken Lopez, and not any disrespect to DJ, but Lopez would instantly have been our best offensive center-IMHO.

I personally defend all our starters, not just the UNC ones. But like everyone else, I want what's best for the team. And I can see a back court with DJ, Carroll/Weaver as being potent offensively, and Weaver can help out to cover DJ's defensive deficiencies.

Maybe we will have a situation where we have 2 really good point guards, so that the team doesn't have a let down when Raymond is on the bench. Now that the venting is done, I am solidly supporting DJ, and hope he has a great career for the Bobcats.

[Hormel]

Thanks for the post bro, I think his pro's for out weighs his cons

[spectre]

I just watched the Kansas vs. Texas game on ESPNU (from mid February)and I wasn't impressed at all. DJ went 1 of 11, airballed a long 2 ptr when the clock was running down with about 2 minutes left and a 2-4 pt lead and the ball never left his hands. I counted about 4-5 possessions where at least 3 he never gave it up, mostly driving/missing but at least a couple of calling his own number as the clock was running down.

Also at the very end he had a chance to ice the game (they were up 2 with about 8 seconds left) but missed the 2nd FT that would have put them up 4. Lucky for Texas Kansas missed the tying basket.

I've seen some games where he played very good ball, but in this one he just didn't really seem to "show up". He did get to the rim pretty much at will just like Felts does, but he also "finessed" a lot of shots that didn't go in and he didn't get the foul called.

Still think he'll be decent depth, but ANY talk of him coming in and making a strong impact in the near future isn't at all realistic IMO.

[Slam]

That's like watching the last game we played against the Celts and seeing Swish go 4-12 from the floor and 0-3 from the line while turning the ball over 3 times and coming to the conclusion that he is a bum.

DJ, like any basketball player, will have off nights. That makes him human. What's important is that they are few and far between.

I'm not anointing him as the next "basketball God" of the NBA, but I am saying don't base your opinion of him based on one game when there are a whole lot more that are better.

That Kansas game - did he do anything else other than shoot? How many assists? How many turn overs? How many times did he go to the line? How many rebounds? How many steals?

One other thing about DJ - on Texas he didn't really have any "go to" sort of players. Abrahams is a good shooter (in a Juan Dixon sort of way) but other than that, he didn't really have anyone. So there were times where he did have to take on the other team by himself - something he doesn't really like doing, but can do if need be.

One thing is for sure, Texas won a LOT more games thanks to DJ than they lost.

[spectre]

That was the thing though...he was pretty much non existent. For the 1st half he played off the ball; Kansas made a point of denying the entry pass to him after made baskets. He helped move the ball in half court sets and he did pretty well getting lose off screens, but nothing amazing. In the 2nd half he kept the ball in his hands a lot. It was a tight game, and he would walk it up and use clock. He made one good drive and kick out during that stretch for a score, but mostly it was offensive rebounding that won the game.


That's like watching the last game we played against the Celts and seeing Swish go 4-12 from the floor and 0-3 from the line while turning the ball over 3 times and coming to the conclusion that he is a bum.

Really, you saw my post as equivalent to calling him a bum? I've said all along I think he'll be a decent backup, but IMO saying he won't be "Chris Paul Lite" isn't quite that bad. He was a 9th pick...and a reach at that. Realistically what should we be expecting here?

He had a couple steals, don't really remember him rebounding that well...got doubled and almost turned it over in the backcourt near the end. For most of the game he just seemed really passive, and that was a big game. It wasn't the Kansas guards shutting him down either...it appeared that he'd lost confidence in his shot after the first quarter or so and was just deferring to everyone else.

Per the stats he had 5 assists/1 TO/2 steals in 40 minutes, shot 1 of 13 FG and went 8 of 10 from the line.

Granted maybe I just caught him in a shooting slump? That was the 5th of a 6 game stretch where he went 6 of 18, 1 of 7, 6 of 14, 5 of 22, 1 of 13 and 2 of 12 (had 10 assists in that game tho).

He also seems to "cheat" off his guy a lot like BK used to do. Maybe he just wasn't worried about their guards?

I've seen him in a few games, not just this one. He has some great stretches, but he also has minutes where he doesn't do a lot either. It's not easy to be a starting calibre PG in the NBA. Hopefully he'll get there one day, but for now I'm not seeing it at all.

Not that that makes him a bum or anything! :cool:

[Slam]

A natural PG being played as a SG for the 1st half? We all know how well that goes!!

There is no doubt there were a couple of times where he shot the poor poorly this year. But then there were others where he was just outstanding. Of course, it's not his shooting that I am super high on, it's his BBIQ, poise, decision making and court vision that I dig. It's his ability to help his guys make easy plays.

Interesting he was cheating off his guy. He does double down quite well and has active hands (BK like) but I usually saw him with a square chest and staying in front of his man.

Just wondering - did he draw any charges from the opposing team? I might be imagining things but I seem to remember seeing him take a charge at least once a game when I watched him.

You are right - at #9 I would be happy with a back up PG, especially considering what else was on the board when we picked.

[spectre]

Heh, I just caught the last 5 minutes of the Texas - Kansas St. game! They're showing a bunch of college ball...next up is Kansas vs. Kansas St.

He looked a little more agressive in that stretch, tho the 2 misses on the front end of "one and one" hurt. It did look like he had a bad handling game, 5 assists and 5 TOs but a good shooting game (none in that last 5). They had the game pretty much sewed up, but DJ did penetrate once and pass for a point blank layup.

Bill Walker went 0 for 14 in that game...obviously a bum! :p

I saw him get deep underneath a couple of times vs Kansas trying to draw a charge and one resulted in a walk...the other a no call. One thing I noticed on defense was that he almost never fought thru a screen but always ducked below it. He'll have to get away from that pretty quick as there's a lot of PGs that are money shooting off a screen.

I should say I was locked in on DJ the whole time...something I (or anyone probably) usually don't do. I get real critical when I do that.

Figured I should throw that disclaimer out there.

[spectre]

They're showing the Texas - Kansas game from 3/16 at 4:30 ET on ESPNU for those interested. Going by the stats it looks like DJ had a decent gaame; 7 of 18 for 20 points, 9 assists and only 1 TO.

Oh, and I missed the "know how it is playing a PG as SG" reference.

Boy do we. In DJs case though I didn't really get it, unless that game was an anomoly and he's normally really agressive driving to the hole playing SG like Felts is. He has the tools as I don't think I've seen anyone stop him from getting into the paint, so maybe that's the case.

[tamburello]

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the info.

I was one of the few people who didn't like Augustin choice. I still am, but not because of Augustin's quality, but club's needs. Anyway, never mind. We've talked about it enough. We have to go through with that squad. Hopefully Augustin will prove himself as a solid NBA point guard although I have really deep concerns about small PG's in the NBA.

What I'd like to ask is totally different. After DJ Augustin's departure, who will replace him as Longhorns' PG? You definitely know that Turkish guard Doğuş Balbay arrived there last season, but couldn't play at all because of an injury I guess. We've been wondering how he will continue his career. There are other options, but would he be able to create a spot in rotaion? Thanks again...

[Slam]

Not sure why Barnes did that either. I guess he had two guys in Abrams and James who could bring the ball up and maybe because DJ logged so many mins he tried to rest him a little but still keep him on the court?

I never noticed that he always went under a screen. You are on the money. He'll be exposed very quickly in the NBA if he allows that too much. I always thought that he picked when he went under or over the screen. Something I'll have to pay more attention to when I watch him. He needs to watch Felts. While DJ might be able to help him with some things, Felts could show him a thing or two when it comes to defending the pick and roll etc.

Kansas Vs Kansas St (the one that K-State won) is a GREAT game.

I saw that K-State game when Walker went 0-14. It was painful to watch. Even more painful was having to listen to the announcers rip him and his maturity for continuing to shoot and get more and more angry when he missed!!

[spectre]

Both Abrams and James (and another guard, came off the bench) have handles and can create, but DJ is so much better. You'd think a GOOD coach would want the ball to be in his hands as much as possible. In that last game I saw an excellent stretch by DJ scoring wise. In what would amount to the 2nd quarter he hit 5 in a row...a 3 (not a spot up either), a fadeaway that was SWEET, a drive/layup, another drive "push" shot and one more. All that in about 5-6 minutes. He's a pretty decent creater but not great when he's being played tight by bigger guards (Rush gave him some fits). Regardless, he should be doing it from the PG vs. the off guard position IMO.

At the end he tried to take over again but it was a no go; he missed 2-3 shots then started deferring to Abrams. Kansas was really rolling tho; Chalmers hit like 8 3 ptrs and Rush was looking like his brother vs. Indiana.

I believe that the coach asked him to do what he did this past season, just like I believe Bernie and the Idiot asked Felts to create and control the ball. With a REAL coach I think we have 2 PGs that will do very well, esp. when the other guys learn to move without the ball and know where to go. I'm still very excited about that.

BTW, the tall white kid on Texas...started with an "A". I like him a lot. Excellent pick and pop player and seemed to have good sense playing in the paint...got his hands on a lot of balls. He'd be a good "Voskuhl" type, 2nd/3rd big in a rotation.

[Slam]

Connor Achley (sp?). I like him too.

I also really like Dexter Pittman - who should get some burn next season for the Horns.

[Woodie]

I saw those games as well spectre. And I have some similar thoughts. Since I hadn't watched any Texas games this year, I really only had to go by what others said about Augustin. So this was my first chance to formulate my own opinion. And I was somewhat disappointed. Not that he was bad, because he wasn't, but because I didn't see anything that made me say "yeah, this guy is our future starter."

His offensive game reminded me a lot of Felton's (inconsistent), and defensively, he does a good job of getting his arms up and deflecting some balls, and as Slam said, he does a very good job of taking the charge (but I wonder how many calls he'll get with the new flopping rules this year...especially since he is a rookie). However, as you said, he does tend to run around screens rather than fight through them, and he does cheat a lot. All too often, I saw his man wide open, with Augustine cheating. While he might be able to get away with that in college, he'll get eaten alive if he tries to do that in the NBA.

With that said, in his defense, the announcers did mention several times in the Kansas game that he was mentally tired from having so much responsibility on his plate (handling the ball over 70% of the time, as well as carrying much of the scoring burden). And they were speculating that was the reason Barnes had taken a lot of the ball handling away from him in that game. But, IMO, if true, it probably backfired because it just seemed to me that he was a bit unsure of what was expected of him. I never got the sense that he was comfortable out there. Who knows, maybe I'm just trying to justify a less than stellar performance, but it does seem logical to me.

Similarly, in the K-State game, the announcers made the comment that Barnes told Augustin that tired legs or not, he needed to keep shooting. So I just wonder how much of his mid-season slump was a result of exhaustion, and how much was some chinks in his armor being exposed.

In both games, they mentioned that he averaged about 40 minutes a game, so I do think there is some validity to the exhaustion theory, but since I didn't see him throughout the year, I'm not sure to what extent.

One thing is clear to me, it would be a dire mistake to trade Felton...at least not until DJ shows he is a capable starter for this team. He's definitely not a sure thing. In fact, from what I saw, the only thing he does clearly better than Felton is see the court. He tended to force shots, and was not a good finisher around the basket. Also, his defense would quickly get exposed by NBA PG's. Give them as much space as he did in these games, and they are going for 30. But like I said, there may have been some mitigating circumstances, so until I see more of him, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

IMO, one of the biggest problems Felton has had in his time with the Bobcats is that he was never left alone at PG and given time to develop, he was always shuffled between PG and SG (and he clearly does not have the skill set for SG), learning some very bad habits for a PG. So his development has been stiffled thus far. Similarly, it may be that Barnes did the same thing with Augustin by forcing him to be something he's not, which is a scoring PG. From what I saw, he's more of a distributer that can score within the flow of the offense, not someone you give the ball to and say "go make something happen." So hopefully we will see both focus on what they do well, and not forced into being something they are not.

[Dead_Real]

I saw those games as well spectre. And I have some similar thoughts. Since I hadn't watched any Texas games this year, I really only had to go by what others said about Augustin. So this was my first chance to formulate my own opinion. And I was somewhat disappointed. Not that he was bad, because he wasn't, but because I didn't see anything that made me say "yeah, this guy is our future starter."

His offensive game reminded me a lot of Felton's (inconsistent), and defensively, he does a good job of getting his arms up and deflecting some balls, and as Slam said, he does a very good job of taking the charge (but I wonder how many calls he'll get with the new flopping rules this year...especially since he is a rookie). However, as you said, he does tend to run around screens rather than fight through them, and he does cheat a lot. All too often, I saw his man wide open, with Augustine cheating. While he might be able to get away with that in college, he'll get eaten alive if he tries to do that in the NBA.

With that said, in his defense, the announcers did mention several times in the Kansas game that he was mentally tired from having so much responsibility on his plate (handling the ball over 70% of the time, as well as carrying much of the scoring burden). And they were speculating that was the reason Barnes had taken a lot of the ball handling away from him in that game. But, IMO, if true, it probably backfired because it just seemed to me that he was a bit unsure of what was expected of him. I never got the sense that he was comfortable out there. Who knows, maybe I'm just trying to justify a less than stellar performance, but it does seem logical to me.

Similarly, in the K-State game, the announcers made the comment that Barnes told Augustin that tired legs or not, he needed to keep shooting. So I just wonder how much of his mid-season slump was a result of exhaustion, and how much was some chinks in his armor being exposed.

In both games, they mentioned that he averaged about 40 minutes a game, so I do think there is some validity to the exhaustion theory, but since I didn't see him throughout the year, I'm not sure to what extent.

One thing is clear to me, it would be a dire mistake to trade Felton...at least not until DJ shows he is a capable starter for this team. He's definitely not a sure thing. In fact, from what I saw, the only thing he does clearly better than Felton is see the court. He tended to force shots, and was not a good finisher around the basket. Also, his defense would quickly get exposed by NBA PG's. Give them as much space as he did in these games, and they are going for 30. But like I said, there may have been some mitigating circumstances, so until I see more of him, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

IMO, one of the biggest problems Felton has had in his time with the Bobcats is that he was never left alone at PG and given time to develop, he was always shuffled between PG and SG (and he clearly does not have the skill set for SG), learning some very bad habits for a PG. So his development has been stiffled thus far. Similarly, it may be that Barnes did the same thing with Augustin by forcing him to be something he's not, which is a scoring PG. From what I saw, he's more of a distributer that can score within the flow of the offense, not someone you give the ball to and say "go make something happen." So hopefully we will see both focus on what they do well, and not forced into being something they are not.
First of all welcome to Bobcats Planet man keep posting as far as your post I cosign 100% with you I think next year we'll see both guys true colors which is being true pass first point guards. I'm going on record next season I think Felton will average around 9 or 10 dimes and I think DJ will be at 8 with both of these guys learning under Coach Brown and Phil Ford we SHOULD have one of the better point guard rotations in the league if no trades go down.

[Keetch]

Nice first post Woodie, welcome. I agree with you 100% as well. Let's see what Larry Brown can do.

My first reaction was that they had to trade Felton; now I'm more with you that they CAN'T trade Felton. No way Brown is starting DJ for a while. Maybe a long while. I'm pretty sure he knows better.

I fear that DJ is going to get schooled in the NBA, but I hope I'm very wrong. I'm going to start a new morning meditation chanting "trust Larry Brown" over and over on an orange yoga mat.

[spectre]

I saw those games as well spectre. And I have some similar thoughts. Since I hadn't watched any Texas games this year, I really only had to go by what others said about Augustin. So this was my first chance to formulate my own opinion. And I was somewhat disappointed. Not that he was bad, because he wasn't, but because I didn't see anything that made me say "yeah, this guy is our future starter."

His offensive game reminded me a lot of Felton's (inconsistent), and defensively, he does a good job of getting his arms up and deflecting some balls, and as Slam said, he does a very good job of taking the charge (but I wonder how many calls he'll get with the new flopping rules this year...especially since he is a rookie). However, as you said, he does tend to run around screens rather than fight through them, and he does cheat a lot. All too often, I saw his man wide open, with Augustine cheating. While he might be able to get away with that in college, he'll get eaten alive if he tries to do that in the NBA.

With that said, in his defense, the announcers did mention several times in the Kansas game that he was mentally tired from having so much responsibility on his plate (handling the ball over 70% of the time, as well as carrying much of the scoring burden). And they were speculating that was the reason Barnes had taken a lot of the ball handling away from him in that game. But, IMO, if true, it probably backfired because it just seemed to me that he was a bit unsure of what was expected of him. I never got the sense that he was comfortable out there. Who knows, maybe I'm just trying to justify a less than stellar performance, but it does seem logical to me.

Similarly, in the K-State game, the announcers made the comment that Barnes told Augustin that tired legs or not, he needed to keep shooting. So I just wonder how much of his mid-season slump was a result of exhaustion, and how much was some chinks in his armor being exposed.

In both games, they mentioned that he averaged about 40 minutes a game, so I do think there is some validity to the exhaustion theory, but since I didn't see him throughout the year, I'm not sure to what extent.

One thing is clear to me, it would be a dire mistake to trade Felton...at least not until DJ shows he is a capable starter for this team. He's definitely not a sure thing. In fact, from what I saw, the only thing he does clearly better than Felton is see the court. He tended to force shots, and was not a good finisher around the basket. Also, his defense would quickly get exposed by NBA PG's. Give them as much space as he did in these games, and they are going for 30. But like I said, there may have been some mitigating circumstances, so until I see more of him, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

IMO, one of the biggest problems Felton has had in his time with the Bobcats is that he was never left alone at PG and given time to develop, he was always shuffled between PG and SG (and he clearly does not have the skill set for SG), learning some very bad habits for a PG. So his development has been stiffled thus far. Similarly, it may be that Barnes did the same thing with Augustin by forcing him to be something he's not, which is a scoring PG. From what I saw, he's more of a distributer that can score within the flow of the offense, not someone you give the ball to and say "go make something happen." So hopefully we will see both focus on what they do well, and not forced into being something they are not.

Welcome, and NICE first post! You're right in bringing up his minutes; at first I was ignoring that thinking 40 mpg ain't so bad...Felts/Crash/Swish come close to that with triple the amount of games. Shouldn't do that tho...he's a young college kid having to worry about things other than basketball.

And I also like your thought that "he seemed unsure of what was expected" than my "passive".

On ducking under screens...I was reading a recap of that Miami/Chicago SL game and they brought up that Rose does the same thing. They said a lot of young guys coming in do that and have to learn when to fight thru. Felts will help him as I think in that he does a very good job.

Realistically DJ will get 15-20 mpg and rest Felts. That'll do a lot this year, as both Bernie and the Idiot played him much more, and he does tend to get sloppy after being on the court 10-12 minutes at the time. Even better, we shouldn't miss a beat.

[victory88]

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the info.

I was one of the few people who didn't like Augustin choice. I still am, but not because of Augustin's quality, but club's needs. Anyway, never mind. We've talked about it enough. We have to go through with that squad. Hopefully Augustin will prove himself as a solid NBA point guard although I have really deep concerns about small PG's in the NBA.

What I'd like to ask is totally different. After DJ Augustin's departure, who will replace him as Longhorns' PG? You definitely know that Turkish guard Doğuş Balbay arrived there last season, but couldn't play at all because of an injury I guess. We've been wondering how he will continue his career. There are other options, but would he be able to create a spot in rotaion? Thanks again...

I've just heard a few things about Balbay, but they have been good comments. It's hard to get input on him since he hasn't played a single game yet, and there is no footage of him before he came to Texas. However, people say he plays lock down defense, he is extremely athletic, and can drive to the hole. I've heard his one bad point is 3 point shooting. I really want to see what he does in a game, but i believe he will be serving a 10 game suspension the beginning of next season for playing with the Turkish pro team. Missing those 10 games is going to be huge, because by then most players know their roles and are getting ready for conference. If he's as good as people say, i think he can definitely get around 15 minutes a game, but i don't see him cracking the line up because we return 4 of our 5 starters. We're also bringing in another pg/sg combo player in j'covan brown who is supposed to be a player and a defensive player if varez ward. Again, it's really hard to predict anything with him since no one knows much, but the entire longhorn fanbase is excited about the things we've heard.

Did you follow Balbay before he arrived at Texas? If so, do you have any input of how he plays?

[victory88]

This is a great discussion. There are some very good points. I was at that Kansas vs. Texas game. It was a great game for Texas, but as you mentioned, DJ was nonexistent. Most of us horn fans believe he will be a solid NBA player, but not a superstar or an all-star.

I wouldn't be too critical in his rookie year. How many rookie point gaurds do you see tear it up? Derrick Rose most likely won't even start the until mid season even if he's as good as advertised. His 1st summer league game was far from stellar, but then again you can't judge a rookie point gaurd.

I've heard it's really hard to play pg for LB, so i don't expect him to start at all this year, probably even next year. However, by mid season i do expect him to be a exceptional backup for Felton, and i do expect him to contribute in some way. Maybe down the line he'll gain enough experience to push for the starting role. However, people said the same thing after durant left (DJ couldn't lead the team), and then DJ carried this team to the elite 8... beating teams like Tennessee, UCLA, Kansas, and Stanford.

[spectre]

Agreed Victory...we need to be patient.

An add on about DJ on the Observer. It's kind of hidden so I thought I'd bring it to everyone's attention:

http://aboverim.blogspot.com/2008/07/remembering-augustin-aau-version.html


Tuesday, July 8, 2008

Remembering Augustin, AAU version (http://aboverim.blogspot.com/2008/07/remembering-augustin-aau-version.html)

As the Charlotte Bobcats prepare for rookie first-round pick D.J. Augustin’s scheduled summer league debut Saturday in Las Vegas, I’m reminded of the first time I saw Augustin play in person.

Augustin wasn’t the marquee guy on the New Orleans Jazz AAU team in 2004. That distinction fell to forward Tasmin Mitchell, a forward who was rated the top prospect in his class for a while by some respected recruiting analysts.

Mitchell was solid, but not spectacular. (He started the first 71 games of his career at LSU before suffering a season-ending ankle injury as a junior last November).

Augustin was electrifying as he propelled the Jazz into the finals at the Bob Gibbons Tournament of Champions. The Jazz fell to the Spiece Indy Heat and a decent center named Greg Oden in the championship game.

Though Augustin didn’t get a championship plaque, he demonstrated an uncanny ability to get into the lane for acrobatic finishes over much taller players. He fed teammates for easy baskets and played with an energy that was infectious.

I hadn’t heard of Augustin before the tournament. By the end, he was obviously one of the tournament’s most impressive players. (He also was considered Wake Forest before choosing to play for Rick Barnes at Texas).

There is a big difference between excelling in an AAU tournament and becoming a top-rate NBA point guard. Having watched in person as gritty Raymond Felton led North Carolina to an NCAA title, I’m honestly not sure whether Augustin’s skill set and intangibles are better.

Felton is faster from baseline to baseline, but Augustin might be quicker and more slippery. Felton is physically stronger and a natural leader. Augustin probably is better at getting his teammates the ball in the right places (as Kevin Durant could attest after their freshman seasons at Texas).

But I believe Augustin has a chance to be a solid NBA point guard. Considering the other players available when the Bobcats drafted at No. 9, this probably was a wise pick.From that article it sounds like DJ and Felts should compliment each other very well. So long as they're willing to learn from each other both should get a lot better.

[Slam]

we shouldn't miss a beat.

:yeahthat:

Something we haven't been able to say when subbing PG's for a LONG time.

[tamburello]

I've just heard a few things about Balbay, but they have been good comments. It's hard to get input on him since he hasn't played a single game yet, and there is no footage of him before he came to Texas. However, people say he plays lock down defense, he is extremely athletic, and can drive to the hole. I've heard his one bad point is 3 point shooting. I really want to see what he does in a game, but i believe he will be serving a 10 game suspension the beginning of next season for playing with the Turkish pro team. Missing those 10 games is going to be huge, because by then most players know their roles and are getting ready for conference. If he's as good as people say, i think he can definitely get around 15 minutes a game, but i don't see him cracking the line up because we return 4 of our 5 starters. We're also bringing in another pg/sg combo player in j'covan brown who is supposed to be a player and a defensive player if varez ward. Again, it's really hard to predict anything with him since no one knows much, but the entire longhorn fanbase is excited about the things we've heard.

Did you follow Balbay before he arrived at Texas? If so, do you have any input of how he plays?

Thanks for all these views. Actually I couldn't find a chance to see him, neither on TV nor alive. However, for years, beginning when he was 13 or 14, I've been always hearing that he will be a very important figure in the future of Turkish basketball. But he has not appeared so much in senior level and a few years ago he went to Texas to continue his career while attending a high school in Texas (Brewster Ac. I guess). In Turkey, there are not so many quality PG's although there are decent big men and forwards, so Doğuş is invaluable at the moment.

Lately, he is called up to Turkish national team squad for European Championship qualifiers. He'll try to make it to the 12-man squad, and if he'd do, we'll see how much talent he has..

[Woodie]

Thanks for the welcome everyone, and sorry for such a long first post.

[ziggy]

Thanks for the welcome everyone, and sorry for such a long first post.
no problems at all, it was a great post :)

[dnbman]

I wouldn't be too critical in his rookie year. How many rookie point gaurds do you see tear it up? Derrick Rose most likely won't even start the until mid season even if he's as good as advertised. His 1st summer league game was far from stellar, but then again you can't judge a rookie point gaurd.

Completely agree, though Rose probably will start.

I think the only thing I'm concerned about is the anti-Felton people playing the two against each other in a way that isn't healthy for either. It happened with Knight and Felton, but that was more of a case of the future vs. the present-soon-to-be-past. Now, we've got two quality young pgs who still have a lot to learn but look like great players.

In my perfect scenario, the season goes down like this:

Felton demonstrates he can run a very effective attack, conducting a solid system on the court. He shows that he's a clear starter in the NBA that can lead a team to victory. Meanwhile, DJ shows a ton of promise, despite making inevitable mistakes. We know we have a great second general on the court that keeps us strong when Felton takes a break.

Both play almost exclusively at the pg spot, aside from the occasional moment when the rotation demands Felton play a couple of minutes at SG.

Great posts.

[ziggy]

Good news: LB says that DJ Augustin has been better than expected.
Bad news: LB says that Ray is a combo guard

http://www.houmatoday.com/article/20080711/APS/807111329

[110oldeast]

ziggy,

I don't know that I would say that he called him a combo. He acknowledged that he "CAN" play both spots, which he "CAN," in some parts b/c he can play bigger than his size. As to him receiving extended or susbtantial minutes at the 2, that would greatly disappoint me as I find it less than ideal. I would prefer that he would be able to get legitimate rest for once so that he can play at an optimum level as much as possible. That said, I hear what you're saying.

I personally just hate that Felton doesn't have the luxury of having his first rookie camp with LB as his coach, instead of having had 3 years to develop bad habits with Bernie and Sam doing the combo thing from a pg perspective. Alas, hopefully if he survived being coached by Matt Doherty and transitioned to Roy Williams, he can flourish with his first legit pg coaching in his pro career now that Larry is here. What I find funny is that he has less of a scorer's mentality and more of a pass first approach than Chauncey Billups had and yet, b/c of these BS 3 years this notion of him off the ball is more normal than necessary. In situations like this, a clean slate can be as valuable as being an incumbent.

As a previous post said, my concern is more of the contingent who are already geared up against him. It's kind of like the Delhomme/Carr situation except that I don't expect and hope for DJ to do anything similar to what Carr did once he got his opportunity. Ideally, Felton would display his worth as a starting pg and DJ will display his as the stablizing backup without dividing the fanbase.

[ziggy]

110,

I would have also loved to have seen Ray develop from the beginning with a top shelf coach like LB. I read a quote somewhere ( I wish I could find it ) where Brown stopped the summer league practice to tell the players :

that they are to give up the ball to the open man if he has a better shot than you every time without exception.

If Ray had that drilled into his mindset from year one, he'd be a completely different type of player.