Bonnell: "midlly interesting article" on Okafor

[dnbman]

tomorrow.

ugh.

He just posted this on the Observer board.

I'm guessing there's big news about to be announced. Considering there's no trade rumor flying around (some source would have leaked, right?), he must have reached an agreement.

Or, Bonnell was serious, and the article is about Okafor's favorite brand of shoes.

[bfer]

http://www.charlotte.com/bobcats/story/722943.html



He is pretty much gone

[dnbman]

Man... I don't know what this is all about from the Bobcat's perspective. I know you don't want to throw crazy cash at the guy, but what could he possibly be demanding?

The only thing I can figure out is his agent has compared Okafor's overall performance to Bogut's, suggesting that Okafor shouldn't get a dollar less than $15M a year, which would definitely make me a little hesitant if I was in management.

I just can't believe a reasonable deal can't get worked out.

[BIGCatBobcat]

Oh well, bye bye Mek. Wish we could have worked something out, but it sounds like it's not going to happen.

[Icky Thump]

Looks like the link moved or something... here is the link that worked for me...

http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2008/07/what-next-for-o.html

July 21, 2008
What next for Okafor?

So now what?

A source with knowledge of the negotiations says Emeka Okafor is ready to move on, rather than accept what the Charlotte Bobcats have offered long-term for his services.

The Bobcats can hold on to him for next season, but perhaps the best way to preserve value is to arrange a sign-and-trade. The Bobcats aren’t saying what they’d consider but here are five ideas that might be worth considering now or later:

MIAMI: Does Shawn Marion float your boat? He appears to be available, with a single, $17.8 million season left on his contract. Swapping Okafor (plus another contract) for Marion would make the Bobcats smaller, but more athletic.

CLEVELAND: Remember when the Bobcats signed Anderson Varejao to that offer sheet last season? Predictably the Cavaliers matched it in an instant. But now Varejao’s agent, Dan Fegan, is interested in moving his client to a team that would prioritize re-signing Varejao.
The Bobcats need an athletic, energetic big man, but here’s the rub: Under league rules, the Bobcats couldn’t trade for Varejao until a year has passed from the time of the offer sheet. That means after Dec. 5. It’s possible the Bobcats could wait that long to resolve the Okafor issue, but that’s a long time to sit in limbo with an unhappy star.

GOLDEN STATE: In case you haven’t noticed, the Warriors have some interesting questions regarding their big men. Andris Biedrins is another of those restricted free agents, and Al Harrington ($9.2 million this season, $10 million next season) is very available.

CHICAGO: I’m not so sure that Okafor’s performances against the Bulls would make that team’s management swoon. However, this is a team with a lot of moving parts, a lot of disenchanted employees and cause to think they’d be open to a deal.
Luol Deng, another restricted from the class of 2004, would help any team. Would Deng, plus maybe one of three forwards (Joakim Noah, Tyrus Thomas or Andres Nocioni?) make sense as the basis for a deal?

DALLAS: I don’t have any ideal match here, but have you ever heard of a sign-and-trade scenario that didn’t involve Mark Cuban?

[aznjustice14]

there were two articles...one just disappeared. but yea the other one just went more in depth about why he's not happy. mainly we offered him less than we offered him last year..which would be obvious considering his lowered productivity

[Icky Thump]

I'm not a huge Okafor fan to start with. He has never been as productive as a top 3 pick should be and last season he appeared to play like he didn't care to be playing basketball at all.I wouldn't mind having him here to pair with another offensively talented post player. I know he has some defensive and rebounding ability but I think it's best to move on. He OBVIOUSLY doesn't want to be here and wants too much money for his talent (at least what he has shown thus far).

We have to work a sign and trade NOW. We have to be careful about the money and talent we receive in return though. I'm not real confident given our team's management thus far so who knows how it will all turn out... I suppose there is a small chance something good could happen for us...

Probably would have been a good thing to have drafted a big that can contribute NOW if you wanted to play hardball with Okafor.... Good going management.

[Icky Thump]

there were two articles...one just disappeared. but yea the other one just went more in depth about why he's not happy. mainly we offered him less than we offered him last year..which would be obvious considering his lowered productivity

Strange I never saw that one.... Wonder why the Observer pulled it?

[aznjustice14]

a okafor/wallace/richardson/morrison/may combo for garnett/allen/pierce? :) hahaha

[Proudiddy]

F*** Okafor. Honestly man, he's not that nice. He's good but not great. Defensively he is a huge presence when he wants to be, but he couldn't improve offensively after working out with Olajuwon. He apparently never really wanted to be here. So be it... We better get something good in return, how about Okafor for Artest and Brad Miller or something like that? I really wish our stupid a** management would have went after Turiaf before all of this crap... Way to go guys! They better make a move or I'm gonna be pissed.

[DirtyU11]

The only deal that i would do of the ones in the article is one for deng and noah. I doubt the bulls give up that much for okafor though. With our management in control i have a bad feeling we are going to make a ridiculously unfair trade and we're going to be on the bad end of it.

[Dead_Real]

The only deal that i would do of the ones in the article is one for deng and noah. I doubt the bulls give up that much for okafor though. With our management in control i have a bad feeling we are going to make a ridiculously unfair trade and we're going to be on the bad end of it.
Sadly I feel the exact same way.

[Proudiddy]

I also just remembered that on hoopshype this morning that a Jersey paper is reporting that the Nets are shopping Marcus Williams in a package with either Josh Boone or Sean Williams. I would definitely do that trade as well. At this point the Bulls or Nets seem like out best options. I really think Sean Williams can come in and provide the same thing that Okapoor has, only with more athleticism. (BTW, I looked it up and we could deal for Artest, but Miller's salary is too high if we dealt with SAC).

[Alex]

Get ready for it guys, horrible trade coming up!

[chabber]

I knew this was coming. Let's pray to the gods that we don't get fracked over in a S&T because our front office is ran by monkeys.

[ohara831]

Looks like all that "sandbagging" he did last season did come back to haunt him. We're not even offering what we did last season. Cannot say I blame the Cats for being tough on this matter. I'd much rather let him walk or do a sign and trade b/4 overpaying him on a long term Contract which could further constrict us salary cap wise for 5 years. He should have taken our offer last season. That's what greed gets you. I dont see it as a matter of principle in this case, just him or his agent over-valuing Okafor and now it will cost him.

Given that we possibly wont have a 1st rounder next yr, I would love to see a deal come down where we get a couple solid players and someone's 1st next yr. Just for precautions.

I'd also love to see if we can make something work to get Josh Smith in a Bobcats uniform.

[MattD]

okafor pissed me off plenty last season, but yeah, we do need him. The option is clear, if we lose him, we must get Sean Williams off of the Nets. I posted a while ago about Sean/Marcus Williams in a package deal and still love it. Marcus and Sean are both availible. Lose Felts, make Marcus williams and DJ battle it out for starter. Then we have

May/Davidson at PF
Williams/Nazr/Ajinca/Hollins (Too many crappy centers lose Hollins im thinking)

Then what we do is offer a boatload of cash to Josh Smith, as we have tons of space, and we run a frontcourt of Smith/Williams, possibly the two most athletic bigs in the country. Smith gives us scoring, WIlliams gives us blocking and a bit of a post presence. Good Centers like Shaq may be able to do some damage on the inside, but we could blaze by them.

[MattD]

the other option is to go after iggy, just try to sign him to an offer sheet, letting Okafor walk, and run something like

felton
iggy
jrich
New PF (Al Harrington?)
williams (yes still trade for williams, his salary is 1.5 mill)

this is contingent purely on the fact that we can trade gerald for a good PF. Charlie V might fit pretty well too if we got some first round draft picks and a salary filler or something.

[aznjustice14]

i would be fine with a josh smith and williams frontcourt. i personally like felton more than williams but if we can initiate a 3 way trade or something to trade williams (for a solid player at a different position) or felton (for solid player plus a 1st rounder or two). the only way i would be fine with this is if we got josh smith as well though. the block party of wallace, smith, and williams would be downright nasty. (we'd hafta hope sean williams improves tho from his rookie year since 5 points and 5 rebounds per game is not something i'd want in exchange for okafor's double doubles)

i also don't see nets doin this too much if they are really true about pursuing lebron since okafor's potential contract (at least what he WANTS) would hinder them financially with the huge offer they'd be giving lebron

[aznjustice14]

if shawn marion were younger i'd be much happier with hiim...its sad that he's already 30 and might be on the downfall soon. his stats have been dropping since his monster 20-11 years..he's more of a 15-9 kinda guy now i think which would be about the same as what we're giving up but we'd also be giving up 3 inches in the post

[MattD]

i would be fine with a josh smith and williams frontcourt. i personally like felton more than williams but if we can initiate a 3 way trade or something to trade williams (for a solid player at a different position) or felton (for solid player plus a 1st rounder or two). the only way i would be fine with this is if we got josh smith as well though. the block party of wallace, smith, and williams would be downright nasty. (we'd hafta hope sean williams improves tho from his rookie year since 5 points and 5 rebounds per game is not something i'd want in exchange for okafor's double doubles)

i also don't see nets doin this too much if they are really true about pursuing lebron since okafor's potential contract (at least what he WANTS) would hinder them financially with the huge offer they'd be giving lebron

the nets get felton, he doesnt hinder. anyways, sean williams played well when he started, but when he got lower minutes and diop came in he didnt play as well. he does still have room to grow though.

[Muttley]

I think if we lose okafor, then it's all that more important to keep Felton-Richardson-Wallace in the backcourt/wings. At the very least, we have to get something for Oak if he doesn't want to be here. I'm not sure what to get for him, though. Maybe we can send him to the Packers for Brett Favre.

[DirtyU11]

I love the idea of josh smith and sean williams at the 4 and 5 position. Getting sean williams and marcus williams for okafor would be one of the better trades out there for emeka. Does anyone know if New Jersey can take on that much money b/c they just used the jason kidd TE to sign dooling a couple days ago. I only do this trade though if we get josh smith to agree to sign with us BEFORE we make the trade.

[ohara831]

On RGM, a Philly fan was offering Dalenbert and Thaddeus Young in a S&T for Okafor. They figure Okafor and Brand is better than Dalembert and Brand. If we could fill 2 holes by getting Dalembert and Young, I'd be quite happy with that trade. Likely the best we could do given that teams could just wait till next season when he was Unrestricted and we'd get nothing in return.

This assumes Young bulks up a little to play the PF position at which he was estimated to play. Right now, he has more of a SF body.

[spectre]

Does anyone know if New Jersey can take on that much money b/c they just used the jason kidd TE to sign dooling a couple days ago.

Nope. They're sitting at around 60-61 million for player salaries in 2008/2009.

In trades with a BYC player you can only take back HALF of his salary, meaning the other team must be 1) under the cap or 2) have a trade exception to make up the difference.

Almost no teams are under the cap and I can only think of 2 teams with a TE...Denver (10 million from the Camby trade) and Orlando (3 +/- for the Dooling deal).

I've not seen one trade that I think would work suggested yet.

[MattD]

I wasnt suggesting trading mek for marcus/sean... they dont want big salary. I suggest letting mek walk, for nothing, or trying to s&t somehow to atlanta or somehow get atlanta involved. pick up Josh Smith. then dish someone for marcus and sean, whether it be may or felton, I dont particularly care, because I dont really like either, though i lean toward dishing felton. then we have smith and two williams. nice. it would take some very smart moves, so i doubt we will pull it off

[ohara831]

Jazz fan offered Millsap and Okur. Not a bad PF and C combo to get back.

[spectre]

Here's a good breakdown of what we're looking at:

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=827379&start=15#p17017485


I don't think I've seen a deal that works under the Collective Bargaining Agreement yet, but I need confirmation whether CHA's cap holds put them over the salary cap. I suspect not, so I'll proceed with the post:

Unless Okafor is willing to accept an offer starting at no more than $8.5 mil, he's going to be a base year compensation player. As such, he's going to only count for half his contract for salary-matching (125% + $100,000) to the CHA (but not the receiving team) under a legitimate CBA deal. In other words, if Okafor was looking for a deal for $12 mil, the least the team receiving him could take back would be $9.52 mil, and the most CHA could take back is $7.6 mil. As it stands, no trade would meet CBA requirements for both teams, no matter what number they chose.

However, there are two ways to cover the span. First, if the receiving team sent out contracts for minimum value players, they count on the outgoing side, but wouldn't boost CHA's incoming numbers. More common, CHA would need to add other players to the deal that are not BYC. This makes the total value of the deal higher, and shrinks the effect the BYC contract has on the total package for salary matching. For example,

OTHER TEAM IN: $21.21 (Okafor $12 mil + Morrison $4.16 + Matt Carroll $5.05)
cba salary range: $16.89-$26.61 (125% + $100,000)

CHA OUT: $15.21 (Okafor $12 mil + Morrison $4.16 + Matt Carroll $5.05)
cba salary range: $12.09-$19.11 (125% + $100,000)

As you can see in this example, the outgoing package has to finish in the narrow landing strip of $16.89-$19.11 to meet the cba's financial guidelines for both teams.

So the question really is ... what players will CHA likely include in a larger S&T deal for Okafor?

I didn't think of the bolded part...but I doubt any of us would like a deal where a bunch of minimum salary guys are coming back.

[MattD]

I love how we are talking about what FANS offer.

Im a bobcats fan and I offer Gerald Wallace and jason richardson and raymond felton for a future second rounder of the lakers. We need draft picks

[MattD]

Here's a good breakdown of what we're looking at:

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=827379&start=15#p17017485



I didn't think of the bolded part...but I doubt any of us would like a deal where a bunch of minimum salary guys are coming back.

if okafor is signed and traded, he wont be traded under the Base year compensation rules, those would take effect after he is traded

[spectre]

if okafor is signed and traded, he wont be traded under the Base year compensation rules, those would take effect after he is traded

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#76


One complication with sign-and-trade deals is that the signed player can immediately become a BYC player (see question number 73 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#73) for more information on BYC), so the player's BYC value must be used when determining whether the trade is allowed.http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#73


BYC defines the salary that's used to compare players for compliance under the Traded Player exception (see question number 68 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#68) for more information about the Traded Player exception). Usually the salary used for comparison is the player's actual salary. But under either of the following circumstances, a different salary is used when comparing salaries for trading purposes:


The team is over the salary cap, used the Larry Bird or Early Bird exception to re-sign the player, and the player received a raise greater than 20% (unless it's the minimum salary).
The team is over the salary cap, it extended the player's rookie scale contract, and the player received a raise greater than 20%.

His raise is going to be more than 20% and we would have to use the Bird exception to re-sign him before he's traded.

He'll definitely be BYC.

[aznjustice14]

btw, marcus williams just went to golden state so no more marcus and sean williams trade for okafor anymore

[MattD]

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#76

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#73

His raise is going to be more than 20% and we would have to use the Bird exception to re-sign him before he's traded.

He'll definitely be BYC.


whoops, yep your right. spectre, master of salary cap

[MattD]

btw, marcus williams just went to golden state so no more marcus and sean williams trade for okafor anymore

first off, no he did not, thats a different marcus williams

second, that was never what i was suggesting and is impossible thanks to the salary cap, and also, the nets want to shed salary for 2010, not take on huge long term contracts

[Brad]

If we somehow trade Wallace, Okafor and Felton, that would mean that Bickerstaff's tenure with this team would have been a complete failure.

He neglected to build this team for the future, which he said was his mantra. Instead, there were several missed opportunities, poor judgement of talent and nothing built for the future.

[spectre]

whoops, yep your right. spectre, master of salary cap

S'all right. The CBA is confusing as hell, and hopefully Tamb will back check me on everything I've posted about it today.

What's pissing me off is we HAD to have seen this coming, especially if the plan was to offer less than last year. Heck, if I'm not mistaken (and I could be) there are no capholds for draft picks; if we'd explored S&T ideas just a couple of weeks ago before we signed the two rooks we'd have had 3.5 million extra in capspace to play with. That would have allowed us wiggle room to deal with teams over the cap.

But nooooo, we let all the space dry up...probably thinking that we had the "power"...and now are looking at extraudinary means just to get decent value out of the guy.

I can only give Jordan so much rope before I concede that all the WAS fans were right all along.

[Muttley]

Spectre, if I understand this correctly (which is highly unlikely), then we can only get back $6.5 mill in a sign and trade for Emeka this summer. Now, we get Okafor next year for $7 mill if he just take the one-year offer. Can we trade him at a $7 mill value to try and get some more flexibility and value out of the trade? Other teams would probably be less inclined to take him though, I assume, since he wouldn't be locked-up for the long term.

I have no idea where we can go from here and can't figure out what the "best" move for the Bobcats would be at this point. It seems any trade that's been proposed (yes, by other teams' fans... I don't know and NBA executives) would have no way of working out because of the BYC. Is there any scenario here where the 'Cats don't end up taking it prison-style? Is it possible that this is a ruse by Oak's agent to try and squeeze a little more money out of the team?

[aznjustice14]

first off, no he did not, thats a different marcus williams

second, that was never what i was suggesting and is impossible thanks to the salary cap, and also, the nets want to shed salary for 2010, not take on huge long term contracts

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/nets/archives/2008/07/marcus_is_gone.html

i'm pretty sure we were talkin about the nets one werent we?

says he just got traded

[spectre]

Spectre, if I understand this correctly (which is highly unlikely), then we can only get back $6.5 mill in a sign and trade for Emeka this summer. Now, we get Okafor next year for $7 mill if he just take the one-year offer. Can we trade him at a $7 mill value to try and get some more flexibility and value out of the trade? Other teams would probably be less inclined to take him though, I assume, since he wouldn't be locked-up for the long term.

I have no idea where we can go from here and can't figure out what the "best" move for the Bobcats would be at this point. It seems any trade that's been proposed (yes, by other teams' fans... I don't know and NBA executives) would have no way of working out because of the BYC. Is there any scenario here where the 'Cats don't end up taking it prison-style? Is it possible that this is a ruse by Oak's agent to try and squeeze a little more money out of the team?

Bingo...you answered your own question, and it looks like you understand the deal just fine.

A deal could still be worked out, but I'm very doubtful. Our best bet is probably a big deal (if you remember that huge post I linked to from RealGM...I'll assume that's right $ wise but I haven't checked it myself) with maybe Crash included, but teams are going to want to throw us crap because Mek has now said he wants to leave.

I'm thinking our best move might be to just sign him to the QO and look to clear some space to play in FA in 09/10. Maybe Mek breaks out and ends up staying after all, but if he doesn't at least the FO will have a year to prepare (like they haven't had that year already).

That was Marcus Williams from the Nets who was just traded for a future 1st to GSW.

[Wanderlai]

I still think he may sign and the Cats give in some on salary. I don't think he is worth 13-15mil/yr but really what are the Cats options? To bad Bob Bass isnt our GM. When he was forced to trade away the Hornets top players he could get talent in return which kept the Hornets competative for years. We are stuck with folks who don't know how or when to trade players, and evaluate talent. PF/C, our biggest problem just got alot worse if Oak goes. Any trade would require getting a big back. Why didnt they trade him before the draft for pics/players before evryones cap space was gone? Oak turned down the same offer last year, wouldnt they think he would do the same this year? Watch them trade Oak for a no-talent big and a 2nd rd pic. The Cats will go and make a good team better and make themselves worse.

[Muttley]

Bingo...you answered your own question, and it looks like you understand the deal just fine.

A deal could still be worked out, but I'm very doubtful. Our best bet is probably a big deal (if you remember that huge post I linked to from RealGM...I'll assume that's right $ wise but I haven't checked it myself) with maybe Crash included, but teams are going to want to throw us crap because Mek has now said he wants to leave.

I'm thinking our best move might be to just sign him to the QO and look to clear some space to play in FA in 09/10. Maybe Mek breaks out and ends up staying after all, but if he doesn't at least the FO will have a year to prepare (like they haven't had that year already).

That was Marcus Williams from the Nets who was just traded for a future 1st to GSW.

I just hate to be cheering for Oak another year, hoping he'll come around, knowing he doesn't want to play for us. If the FO decided that they had to get something from him this year, then this could give us the opportunity to clear some fluff off of the roster. I'd think at this point that we cannot give up Nazr, but maybe send Oak + May/Ammo and Ryan somewhere. What would that allow us to take back in return? $9-11 million to take back a good big man plus 1st round picks from the other team?

Well... Not the best spot to be in, Bobcats management. Not sure the blame's all on them though. We'll see what happens soon enough, I guess.

Edit: Okay, just read that post by "shrink" on realgm that you posted earlier. That makes more sense. If we could come out of this with (assuming no Emeka) a solid set of starters while having to sacrifice some depth, I could be happy, though surprised.

[spectre]

Figure it’s going to have to be at least 2 players from our end, and the numbers will look like this as an example:

Mek at 13/Hammer at 5. The receiving team will be bringing in 18 but we can only take back 11.5 plus I think maybe another 1.5 million (how much we’d be under the cap). Say we renounce Twigs, which gives us another million…that’d be 14 million bucks. The receiving team can take back a MINIMUM of 14.4 (that times 125%).

That’s pretty damn close. Example trades that should work, or at least come close:

Hinrich/Thabo/Noah
Dalembert/Young/Smith
Sheed/Samb

[chabber]

Dalembert/Young/Smith pls.

[Muttley]

Figure it’s going to have to be at least 2 players from our end, and the numbers will look like this as an example:

Mek at 13/Hammer at 5. The receiving team will be bringing in 18 but we can only take back 11.5 plus I think maybe another 1.5 million (how much we’d be under the cap). Say we renounce Twigs, which gives us another million…that’d be 14 million bucks. The receiving team can take back a MINIMUM of 14.4 (that times 125%).

That’s pretty damn close. Example trades that should work, or at least come close:

Hinrich/Thabo/Noah
Dalembert/Young/Smith
Sheed/Samb

Thanks Spectre, I think I've got a better sense of what we're looking at here. Seems like that last possibility could re-open the floodgates of Sheed -to-Charlotte/Charlotte Tarheels talk.

I kinda like the 76er trade, though. (Yeah, what chabber said.)

[chabber]

Ugghh, no more sheed talk.

[spectre]

Heh, that was my favorite too!

Here's one that works on the RealGM trade board:

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=827523

Basically Mek/Crash out...Billups/Maxiell/Outlaw/DET 1st in. The poster then went on to take care of the glut at PG with a trade of Felts for Shellhead. Now there's no way in hell I'd do that, but Felts probably could bring us back something decent in another trade which would help balance the roster.

OP's final roster:

Billups/Augustine
Richardson/Carroll
Outlaw/Dudley/Morrison
Williams/Maxiell/May
Mohammed/Ajinca

I'd probably sign Elson (sigh) for depth.

[ohara831]

Since we have to send out more than taking back to make this work, what about approaching the Lakers to see if they want Okafor for Bynum? That gives them an experienced big man to help Gasol patrol the middle, and gives us a young Center - coming off an injury - but who can develope into a great player with more time. It might help LA on their Defense, and it gives us a potential stud at Center. Just trying to think of something where this can somehow come out good for us. They'd have to include someone else in the deal to make the $ work, but that might help them to dump another small salary, too.

[chabber]

Yeah that one is not too bad either i guess. the felton for williams deal would be horrible though. Like you said have to find something else instead. My only problem with this trade is we'd be a team full of avg players besides J Rich and Billups who is older. It just seems likely that this trade would keep us mediocre for a good while.

The philly trade nets us a defensive big back in return and a player with potential. I like it much better.

[spectre]

If I were the Lakers I wouldn't trade Bynum for Mek...but maybe that's just me.

I know Ohara...it's hard not to get screwed here. As our FO has shown NO ability to even get fair value in a trade (other than Swish o'course) it's very hard to be optimistic.

A Philly fan just threw this out there:

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=827379&p=17019603#p17019457


How about a deal with Philly. I know the Sixers fans love their youth, but consider the following:

Thad Young, Mareese Speights, and Samuel Dalembert for Emeka Okafor and Adam Morrison

Why for Philly:
They further strenghten their front court. Okafor and Brand would be the best defensive 4/5 combo in the East (Boston being right there as well). It will also give them post insurance in case something occurs with Brand. Morrison would also be able to fill the void of the missing shooter in the Sixers' offense.

Why for Charlotte:
Speights and Young further a rebuilding movement in Charlotte. Dalembert fills in the void of a legit center that the Bobcats can use.

that's pretty darn close to the Daly/Young/Smith idea.

Edit: I just realized the poster seems to NOT be a Philly fan...so hard to say what they'll think.

[ohara831]

I'd be happy with that trade.

[ohara831]

If we have the option of pulling our QO off the table no later than tomorrow, I wonder if this means that the FO is going to move quickly - like within 24 hours quick?

[chabber]

Yes, that would be fantastic. I'd actually be more excited about that team than the one we currently have.

[Muttley]

Yes, that would be fantastic. I'd actually be more excited about that team than the one we currently have.

Agreed. I'd feel pretty good about that. Especially the part where we're able to keep Gerald Wallace.

[chabber]

Yup, just count me as one person who doesn't over value Emeka. I feel his role on the team can be filled cheaper an easier than others do such as Mohammad or Haywood etc... Guys like Dalembert, Chandler are Meks level IMO. I'd actually prefer either one because of their length and athleticism. I don't need them to score just like I didn't want Emeka to. We'd be stealing in this trade imo.

[Slam]

What's pissing me off is we HAD to have seen this coming, especially if the plan was to offer less than last year.

I think they did - which is why they signed Diop to an offer sheet.

[spectre]

I think they did - which is why they signed Diop to an offer sheet.

Oh I agree, that and our supposed interest in Elson (probably not so "supposed" anymore). Pretty obvious now those moves was for replacement, not a pairing.

But all they had to do was hold off signing DJ and Ajinça and we'd have 3.5 million more to play with...which could be a big difference in final value coming back.

But what the heck...maybe they do have a plan (heh...really!).

[Muttley]

But what the heck...maybe they do have a plan (heh...really!).

I'd love to see it. If so, then it's kinda like an animal playing dead to lure in some scavenger to maul when they approach unsuspecting. I don't think that Bobcats are that animal.

[MattD]

first off, no he did not, thats a different marcus williams

second, that was never what i was suggesting and is impossible thanks to the salary cap, and also, the nets want to shed salary for 2010, not take on huge long term contracts

wow im an idiot. they did trade him. your fast with your knowledge

[amour217]

Wow...there's a lot of thoughts surrounding this whole Okafor fiasco.

First: ok so Bogut got paid...at least he's a legit Center. Okafor wants as much or more to be an undersized C and an unwilling PF. And let's face it, even with last year, I still see Okafor as injury-prone.

Second: obviously he pretty much doesn't want to be here...so I say forget it: see what we can get for him and try to make it work. I know our front office sucks but we need to stand up and not allow Okafor's pouting or stubbornness to handcuff our team's potential to make a creative move.

Third: If we took Brook Lopez, this wouldn't be SO bad. Not that he was my fav pick, and I like Augustin...but now the Ajinca pick is looking extremely worrisome.

Fourth: I've said it once, I'll say it again, this team is putting too much stock in Sean May's knee, unless the FO has something up their sleeve. For all the fun I make of Sean May, I'd like to see him contribute and I know he can help...but I think we're all in agreement that we'll have to wait and see and we can't expect TOO much. Unless something is in the works, we're SCREWED on the front line because even WITH Okafor we were constantly out-rebounded by other teams. Now we'll boast a front line of a whale, some twigs, a baguette, and Nazr....God help us.

[swetooth9]

if we do the okafor for Sean/Marcus williams deal + sign Josh smith, i'd love it (sean williams was my favorite player in college 2 years ago, and josh is my 2nd or 3rd fav player in the nba now), but we'd basically be the atlanta hawks (a bunch of athletic forwards, and only 1 guy who can shoot consistently - joe johnson: J-rich)

[aznjustice14]

i dont kno if i'm crazy or wat...but i keep sayin this...hasnt marcus williams of the nets been traded already to the warriors? thats wat i keep seein over and over and first i'm told that i was wrong and now people keep mentioning the sean/marcus idea...

[ammofan]

yeah Marcus was traded for a future 1st rd. pick of GSW

[Proudiddy]

Well, now that Marcus Williams is gone (which pisses me off), we are now down to the possibilities of Josh Boone, Sean Williams, Josh Smith, and Andre Iguodala. I think the best option at this point is Josh Smith. It seems Williams or Boone could be had with a lot less compensation though. Iguodala is just a wildcard, and honestly we don't need him because we have enough wing players.

Or how is this for a scenario? We won't do anything but re-sign him for 1 more year with the qualifying offer. This sounds more in line with our front office train of thought - meaning there is none. In this scenario, Brown will prolly strong arm Higgins into keeping Okafor for another year in hopes of changing his mind with a winning season. We will probably win, get a low playoff seed, but Okafor won't care... We'll lose him with no compensation after next season.

In summary, we won't do a sign-and-trade, because it makes sense. Our front office won't do anything that makes sense. Okafor will play another year and leave, typical Charlotte Hornets, uhhhh... I mean Charlotte Bobcats.

[TheBeagle]

I'm all for a S&T and getting this guy outta here. If he doesn't want to be here, then I don't want him. The worst case scenario, I guess, would be getting hosed in a trade, but I'd almost prefer that to him signing the QO: I mean, really, how hard will that be to pull for a disgruntled mercenary who you know is going to walk after the season getting nothing in return? Having Mek back is just going to do nasty things to locker room chemistry, I believe.

I like the Chicago deal Bonnell threw out there, as well as the Philly deals discussed by spectre et al. Please though, no Josh Smith or Sean "Green" Williams.

I just hope the "brain trust" is firm in their stance that they won't pay Mek what he isn't worth; anyone and everyone can see that he hasn't lived up to the hype that accompanied him out of UConn and the 2 pick, and the first ever Bobcats pick. He's wanting to get paid like a former 2 pick, and that's just boneheaded, perverted logic from a guy who I used to have quite a bit of respect for in terms of intelligence.

Right now it looks like a black eye for the Cats, but I think whoever we have suiting up for us this upcoming season (assuming Mek is gone) will bust their collective asses and give us a team to be proud of, whether or not the playoffs are in the cards.

[tamburello]

S'all right. The CBA is confusing as hell, and hopefully Tamb will back check me on everything I've posted about it today.

What's pissing me off is we HAD to have seen this coming, especially if the plan was to offer less than last year. Heck, if I'm not mistaken (and I could be) there are no capholds for draft picks; if we'd explored S&T ideas just a couple of weeks ago before we signed the two rooks we'd have had 3.5 million extra in capspace to play with. That would have allowed us wiggle room to deal with teams over the cap.

But nooooo, we let all the space dry up...probably thinking that we had the "power"...and now are looking at extraudinary means just to get decent value out of the guy.

I can only give Jordan so much rope before I concede that all the WAS fans were right all along.

spectre... master of CBA. Period.

Actually I wasn't fully sure about whether signed and traded players or signed and traded RFA's would be BYC player immediately. Your quote from our holy book about salary cap clearly highlighted the situation.

Assuming he signs a 13 million contract, we'll have to take back 6.5 million. This is clarified. When I first saw the Okafor is about to slam the door and leave, the first idea that came to my mind is S&T Okafor for just draft picks. As far as I've seen the posts here, this idea had not been mentioned. In an ideal world, if I were the GM, I'd trade S&T Okafor for 2 first round picks (not 3 because I believe Okafor is not as good as we've been regarding him). then we'd have a 13 million trade exception for a year. Most importantly after Okafor is gone, we'd have a cap space around 9 million, and could be able to overpay for Biedrins. And at these times next year, we could have been able to absorb a heavy contract up to 13 million and would be able to make a steal such as Camby. These are just products of sudden brainstorming. However........

Among the teams, only the Memphis Grizzlies are able to complete such a deal. Any of other teams has enough cap space or a suitable trade exception. However Grizzlies want to save their cap space for next season. At least we know they would not want Okafor.

So, in this current situation, I still think Okafor will sign QO, will have a mediocre season and leave us next year. Since it's so clear at the moment that he wouldn't want to remain with us for the long term, teams would try to explore S&T opportunites. But if any of them would be willing to tie him for long term? I'm really suspicious on this option. Some trade probabilities are mentioned. For example the proposed trade with Philly (which is for Dalembert and Young) would be done myself in a second. But would Sixers want to sign another huge contract after Brand, while they still have to keep RFA's Iguodala and L. Williams?

Would Utah want to sign a huge contract while they'll have Boozer and Okur free agents next season?

Europe for Okafor? I don't think so at the moment, because he's not a MLE player just like Josh Childress.

I'm thinking and will be thinking in following days, but I don't think I'll come up with a better idea. Because the situation is very puzzling. Because the trust between the club and Okafor is apparently lost.

By the way, Bogut's contract is not worth 72.5 million, but 60 millon. The remaining 12.5 million is bonuses etc. Just like Gerald Wallace's contract, which is 57 million over 6 seasons, but could be as high as 69 millions.

[DirtyU11]

i wouldnt mind signing okafor to the exact same contract as bougot b/c i doubt emeka will reach whatever the incentives are. i cant remember if that deal was a 5 yr or 6 yr but if it was a 6 and emeka dosent reach the incentives we will be paying him 10 mil a yr which is very good for us. If for some odd reason he plays like a 72.5 mil player i have no problem paying him for it. But in the last 3 seasons he hasent so im betting my money against him and i feel good that my money is safe.

[DirtyU11]

Well, now that Marcus Williams is gone (which pisses me off), we are now down to the possibilities of Josh Boone, Sean Williams, Josh Smith, and Andre Iguodala. Iguodala is just a wildcard, and honestly we don't need him because we have enough wing players.


If we could do a sign and trade for Iguodala i would be thrilled. I always liked his play and he would give us an upgrade at shooter over GW and we dont lose GW dunks or defense but GW can block better. Heres the trade

Gerald Wallace and Matt Carroll for Andre Iguodala and Jason Smith

GW and Carroll put us at 14.5 million. S/T Iguodala to a frontloaded contract for the salaries to match i was thinking 10.5 to 11.5 a yr for iggy and smith's contract is 1.3 mil. Philly does this b/c they get back a better defender in wallace and dont lose a whole lot of scoring and they get a real 3 point threat option for their weak bench. We get a better scorer and shooter in iggy and get another big who is 7" tall and 240 lbs and can score down low and is a pretty good passer. Maybe now we can convince mek to stay now that our management shows they are willing to improve the roster. Mek may even take the lesser contract now. Spectre will have to check out the salary stuff cuz i dont know if this can even work under the BYC. Maybe we throw in future picks to make it work, im willing.

This is his profile from the 07 draft:

Strengths: Fundamentally sound big man who runs the floor well. Has a nice shooting touch out to college three-point range and is capable of playing with his back to the basket. Works hard on the glass.

He averaged 16.8 pts his junior yr and shot 77% from the line. Sounds like what we are missing to me.

[dav7z]

i wouldnt mind signing okafor to the exact same contract as bougot b/c i doubt emeka will reach whatever the incentives are. i cant remember if that deal was a 5 yr or 6 yr but if it was a 6 and emeka dosent reach the incentives we will be paying him 10 mil a yr which is very good for us. If for some odd reason he plays like a 72.5 mil player i have no problem paying him for it. But in the last 3 seasons he hasent so im betting my money against him and i feel good that my money is safe.


I don't mind the Bobcats giving him a offer like that . Truely i think we all ready have offered that much and hes turned it down. I think he just wants out of Charlotte . Give Biscuit cradit for most of that . Mek is the kind of guy who takes things personal and Biscuit has put him on our bad side . A sign and trade might be the best for all concerned.


With Bigerstaff with the Bulls they might make a very good trade partner.
Bernie knowing our players.
The Bulls need to get rid of Hinrick bad all so let me just through some players out thair.


Bulls
Deng same shape as Mek
Hindick 4 years over 40 milion left and unneeded
Noah good contract not a Mek though
TT. good contract and lots of upside
Bobcats
Mek , wants out
Wallace good trade value but long contract
Morrison , depends on the knee
Felton, limited value due to all the bulls guards
May . If Bulls had instrest
Between Brown and Bernie Biggerstaff seems like a deal could be made with thease players.
Basketball minds get us a fair trade for both sides out of all this.

[ohara831]

Was reading David Thorpe's chat on ESPN.com. Was asked about Brandon Wright getting much PT this yr. He said he hoped so, but that insiders there tell him that Nellie hates Brandon Wright.

First, that is likely why they went with Randolph. Secondly, I'd really like to try and get him in a Bobcats uniform. I think he'll be good, and there is a lovely symmetry to us trading him for J-Rich, then getting him back the next yr.

[Dead_Real]

Was reading David Thorpe's chat on ESPN.com. Was asked about Brandon Wright getting much PT this yr. He said he hoped so, but that insiders there tell him that Nellie hates Brandon Wright.

First, that is likely why they went with Randolph. Secondly, I'd really like to try and get him in a Bobcats uniform. I think he'll be good, and there is a lovely symmetry to us trading him for J-Rich, then getting him back the next yr.
If this did go down would it be Okafor for Wright straight up or some fillers thrown in from both teams? either way I've seen worst trade offers during the last couple of days this sounds very good to me.

As for the Bulls trades I wouldn't mind moving Okafor for Tyrus and Noah but many of there fans don't seem to be willing to throw Thomas in the deal.

[dvdbumpus]

I'd consider doing a trade with GS.

Okafor and picks, etc. for Biedrins and Brandan Wright

If Nellie hates Wright so much he won't have as much value, and Okafor/Biedrins would be a near wash.

[aznjustice14]

i love the idea of biedrins and wright for okafor and some fillers but i doubt that would happen

[ammofan]

Here are my two ideas:

Charlotte Gets: Andis Biedrins/Brandan Wright
Warriors Get: Emeka Okafor/Ryan Hollins

or

Charlotte Gets: Sam Dalembert/Jason Smith/Mareese Speights
Sixers Get: Emeka Okafor/Matt Carroll

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Yup, just count me as one person who doesn't over value Emeka. I feel his role on the team can be filled cheaper an easier than others do such as Mohammad or Haywood etc... Guys like Dalembert, Chandler are Meks level IMO. I'd actually prefer either one because of their length and athleticism. I don't need them to score just like I didn't want Emeka to. We'd be stealing in this trade imo.We needed a low post scorer at the 4 or 5 in the worst way and the FO blows it by taking Augustine over Brook Lopez. Brook Lopez and Augustine may both very well be all stars one day but Brooke would have made us better as a team in the short term.

Emeka as of now is not as good as Dwight Howard because he plays with no desire. If he played with some motivation he may be great. My worry is that EO goes to our division or a conference team and he plays better than he ever did for us. In a perfect world we would get just compensation for EO and he would be playing somewhere out west. With that said this is not a perfect world. Just having LB as head coach and players that play inspired will give us a better season than last with or without EO. If the cats can win at least forty games without EO I would consider this season a success.

I don't honestly see us coming out smelling like roses in a s&t and maybe the best rout we could take is to scour the talent in the NBDL for a quality replacement. There is a chance someone comes out smoking in NBDL play who sticks on our roster once picked up and signed. It would be cheaper and allows us some cap space for later moves if need be. There are all kinds of things that can happen in the course of a season so heaven only knows what we could do before the trade deadline.

Without a solid post player both offensively and defensively we will have some troubles against teams with quality bigs. We can not play an outside in game and going inside out will be hard to do without a big that is a scoring threat from the low post. Maybe Ajinca grows quickly and gives us that but even if he shows skills he is too frail to sustain a long season. I say NBDL is the way to go this year.

[chabber]

I don't get your post in relation to my quote. ?

[ELEVATION]

Hey you guys I just wanted to get your opinion on this one. Our horrible FO let the cat out of the bag that we might trade AI I just wanted to get some opinions about this trade.

AI
future 1st

Okafor S&T
Felton
Sean May

What do you guys think how would you switch it around to make it work and would you even consider this trade?

[ammofan]

I would not do that trade ELEVATION. I love AI and I really wanted him here before he went to Denver. But. I think that in order for the Bobcats to have a chance of making and doing something in the playoffs we have to keep Raymond and Sean. We really need Emeka as well, but I dont think I want him on the team unless he signs a very resonable contract. I would rather trade Emeka for two big men (Maybe B-Wright and Biedrins?) in order to fill our lineup out.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

I don't get your post in relation to my quote. ?My point is that yes we can find cheaper options than sticking with EO but the most likely and cheapest options are along the NBDL rout. I know this site is about clicks so I won't get too deep but the reality is there really aren't many options available if we can't sign EO. We can roll the dice and hope a quality big can come out of the NBDL. This season may not be what we want but next year will give us a better chance.

What I understood you wrote chabber was that we don't need to overpay EO and could find cheaper talent to fill his shoes. I agree but I feel that most of whats in the league for FA at the seasons start won't be all that good. It would be better to try a NBDL player. Just a matter of time before a star comes out of NBDL. I don't see a s&t getting done with EO.

[chabber]

Ok, I got ya now. I can see how you got that impression. Really I was just talking about my feelings on him and his team role in general and how if I could in my "alternate reality", I'd rather have a different player who we could pay less and fill the same role. I'd much rather spend 13M on a player who has a bit of an offensive game.

I'm fine paying him but I just want it to be reasonable. I don't think he's worth 13M but if that's what it takes to keep him fine. I'm more of the opinion that he doesn't want to be here, always have been. I could be wrong but we'll see.