A trade thought

[dav7z]

It's a dead board so hear goes a trade thought .
Less hear any other trade thoughts as long as they work on the trade checker.
And discuss those thoughts on this thread.
I will start off with, Charlotte in Haslem from the Heat. Charlotte out Nazr and next years second round pick. The Heat is looking for a center and wants to trade Haslem .Thoughts



http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/

[ammofan]

I approve of that trade!

[Muttley]

Yes.

I'd do it if they would.

[ohara831]

If Miami would, then I would too.

[ziggy]

Heres one for the sake of argument

Raymond Felton & Sean May out
Chris Wilcox in

positives: we'll have a grown man to play PF
negatives: we sacrafice PG depth



an additional positve: we drop the Tarheel quotient on the Bobcats by 2 ;)

[TheLegend]

Heres one for the sake of argument

Raymond Felton & Sean May out
Chris Wilcox in

positives: we'll have a grown man to play PF
negatives: we sacrafice PG depth



an additional positve: we drop the Tarheel quotient on the Bobcats by 2 ;)

I barely seen Wilcox play, but is he a good outside shooter?

[ziggy]

I barely seen Wilcox play, but is he a good outside shooter?

He isn't much of an outside shooter, hes more of an athletic physical banger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ks6Kaal_bk

[Ghost Kat]

This trade actaully makes sense. But we do lose some height with Nazi for Haslem. Wilcox would be a good pick up also but is he really worth two players?

[mrtarheel]

What about Nazr and Ajinca for Darrel Arthur, Hakim Warrick and Marc Gasol. Memphis gets a proven center and a project while we get projects in Arthur and Gasol and a pf that we can use in rotation. How about Nazr and Jamareo for Beasley and Anthony from the Heat. We get Beasley and they get two good players to fit in their system. Of course picks would have to be added to this one or both. This one will take the cake and could take place if the FO gets creative, Nazr for Carl Landry and Joey Dorsey. The Rockets would get a proven center to back up Yao and we get Landry who will be a risk because of his injury and a Beast to back up Okafor. We wouldn't need his scoring on our 2nd string because we could look for May or Davidson for that.

[dav7z]

What about Nazr and Ajinca for Darrel Arthur, Hakim Warrick and Marc Gasol. Memphis gets a proven center and a project while we get projects in Arthur and Gasol and a pf that we can use in rotation. How about Nazr and Jamareo for Beasley and Anthony from the Heat. We get Beasley and they get two good players to fit in their system. Of course picks would have to be added to this one or both. This one will take the cake and could take place if the FO gets creative, Nazr for Carl Landry and Joey Dorsey. The Rockets would get a proven center to back up Yao and we get Landry who will be a risk because of his injury and a Beast to back up Okafor. We wouldn't need his scoring on our 2nd string because we could look for May or Davidson for that.
I have no idea how much of that works on the trade checker. Landery we could just sign with our MLE, I don't think LB gives up AJINCA this early after sticking out his neck to get him? It's no way the Heat does that give up Beasley. Thats why Haslem is on the trading block.

[WAM9]

I will start off with, Charlotte in Haslem from the Heat. Charlotte out Nazr and next years second round pick. The Heat is looking for a center and wants to trade Haslem .Thoughts




Absolutely! That would address our greatest need and trade a player who we have a decent amount of money tied up in. Backup center gets thin all the sudden but it would still be worth it to me. In the past, when Shaq was out, I have seen Haslem play center for short stretches. He gives up height but works really hard. Again, I love the deal.

[SWedd523]

Isn't Haslem like 6'8'' though? He's a tough player but thats kind of pushing it with our already borderline undersized Okafor

[tamburello]

What about Nazr and Ajinca for Darrel Arthur, Hakim Warrick and Marc Gasol. Memphis gets a proven center and a project while we get projects in Arthur and Gasol and a pf that we can use in rotation. How about Nazr and Jamareo for Beasley and Anthony from the Heat. We get Beasley and they get two good players to fit in their system. Of course picks would have to be added to this one or both. This one will take the cake and could take place if the FO gets creative, Nazr for Carl Landry and Joey Dorsey. The Rockets would get a proven center to back up Yao and we get Landry who will be a risk because of his injury and a Beast to back up Okafor. We wouldn't need his scoring on our 2nd string because we could look for May or Davidson for that.

Memphis would not make such big mistakes whatsoever. In this trade we're giving them two mediocre centers (sorry Alexis, but you are even not mediocre), and acquring 3 young players with great potential. Marc Gasol may be the reason that Memphis gave Pau Gasol to Lakers for nothing but his rights. Darrell Arthur and Hakim Warrick has big upsides Marc was one of best centers of Europe already.

If I were Chris Wallace, I wouldn't accept Nazr+Ajinça for Arthur+Warrick. Not mentioning Marc.

Nazr+Jermareo for Beasley+Anthony??? Are you really serious, dude? Would they trade a potential superstar for 2 players who "fit in their systems"? If you'd like, let's give Spurs Felton+Nazr for Duncan!! They'd fit in Spurs system well and we'd get a modest best player of last decade.

I know at this stage of free agency period, market is very slow, rumors are dead, however please be a little more logical. Nobody would take the huge contract of Nazr off of our hands. All rumors around Nazr are sentenced to death unless we give up great players along with him. Forget this.

[dav7z]

tamb thats why i had our 2nd round pick added in two . That still might mot be enough either. But i was thinking Haslems contract is no better than Nazz. You know more about money and value so it might be unrealistic. It did wokk on the trade checker whitch means nothing. It seems Morrison or May has no value or we wouuld have all ready may a trade in that area. Your thoughts as to who to trade and for who ?? Knowing we in despret need of a P/F . If Bonnell knows this then the F/O has too,


Haslems contract this year 6.5 next year 7.1 the next
Nazz this year 6.1 next 6,5 . last 6.8
Nazz does have one more year , But if the Heat wants a Center and wants to stay under the cap for 2010 Nazz might be a option.


The main reason i think this might work????/

http://heat.realgm.com/articles/104/20080812/talent_and_concerns_breaking_down_miamis_roster/

[spectre]

The Heat have a 2010 FA plan and don't want to take back contracts that go beyond that.

[dav7z]

Six Milion would be cheap for a starting center on the books . They would have a good line up this with tons of cap space next year wiyh Marion expiring.LJ will need a decent big to go along with Wade and Beasley. That would be a sick line up .
Beasley , James, Wade, Nazz and a point. Six milion wouldn't be a large contract for a starting center. They are going to have to pay some one on the cheap Nazz seems to fit that mold nicely.

[tamburello]

The Heat have a 2010 FA plan and don't want to take back contracts that go beyond that.

That's right. And I heard that Heat is interested in Jamaal Magloire. If they sign him, they'd have a better and cheaper center than Nazr. If Mourning decides to play one more year, they'd have a much better backup center than Hollins or Ajinça.

[dav7z]

Tamb and Spectra if you think a deal for Haslem is unrealistic . Can either or both of you guys give us a idea as to what options we have addressing our problem .
Or do you think we will have to wait til next year to address our P/F problem because we have no tradable parts. I would love to hear some of your trade ideas.

[spectre]

Tamb and Spectra if you think a deal for Haslem is unrealistic . Can either or both of you guys give us a idea as to what options we have addressing our problem .
Or do you think we will have to wait til next year to address our P/F problem because we have no tradable parts. I would love to hear some of your trade ideas.

I wish it was. I like Haslem and I like your idea from our POV. From reading their boards it appears they plan on pulling in a top notch FA in 2010 to pair with Flash (and probably to show they mean to contend so he'll re-sign).

Miami would do it for Felton/May no doubt if we were willing to give those up because they are essentially expiring. I wouldn't be, but some might.

I'm pretty much at a loss unless we give up Crash and I don't want to do that. We probably go into the season with what we have and LB will see what's working and what isn't. If he thinks we still need a big then I wouldn't be surprised if something like this happened:

Crash/Hammer for Pavlovich/Varejao

There was a rumor last year that Jordan REALLY liked Varejao, and that probably played some part in us helping him get that contract with the player option. Cleveland according to some of their fans on RealGM really like Crash...so something like that going down in December wouldn't shock me.

Edit: Tamb, do you know the rules on re-working a contract like Boston did with Garnett? As it stands the above wouldn't work with his existing rate, but Varejao's next contract will probably be near Crash money.

Probably getting into difficult/near impossible territory.

[tamburello]

Edit: Tamb, do you know the rules on re-working a contract like Boston did with Garnett? As it stands the above wouldn't work with his existing rate, but Varejao's next contract will probably be near Crash money.

Probably getting into difficult/near impossible territory.

I don't know specific details. As far as I remember, Garnett signed an extension with Wolves before being traded. Also what I know is you can negotiate a contract extension after 3 years from the start of the deal. To be honest, I couldn't figure out what you exactly want to know, sorry for my bad English.

But I think Varejao will ever be able to receive a MLE again yet a contract like Crash's. He had a great chance to get a contract around 7-8 mil per year after 2007 NBA Finals, however he behaved greedy and blew a life time chance. If he is playing as well as he was in 2007, we wouldn't have been thinking about acquiring him after December 5, because Cavs wouldn't have wanted to leave him.

Dave, I didn't say a deal for Haslem is unrealistic. I said any deal including Mohammed is highly unrealistic. In 2011, Mohammed's contract will be an invaluable trade chip, not now. And just like spectre, I don't like to give up Felton for Haslem. Felton is better than Haslem, and we can acquire a better PF if we'll part with Felton. But probably this will be our squad on November 1.

[spectre]

I don't know specific details. As far as I remember, Garnett signed an extension with Wolves before being traded. Also what I know is you can negotiate a contract extension after 3 years from the start of the deal. To be honest, I couldn't figure out what you exactly want to know, sorry for my bad English.

But I think Varejao will ever be able to receive a MLE again yet a contract like Crash's. He had a great chance to get a contract around 7-8 mil per year after 2007 NBA Finals, however he behaved greedy and blew a life time chance. If he is playing as well as he was in 2007, we wouldn't have been thinking about acquiring him after December 5, because Cavs wouldn't have wanted to leave him.

Nah man, the fault was mine...I didn't explain my reasoning. Like you said Varejao turned down 7-8 million so I'm thinking he'll want money close to what Crash is getting (9-10 range). I didn't want to take on that additional money the next year after the trade so I was trying to send out money that would equal Pavlovich + Varejao'w new contract.

Right now Varejao + Pavlovich = 10.2...which is within 125% of Crash's deal.

After his new deal Varejao + Pavlovich = 14.5...which comes close to equaling Crash + Hammer.

We'd end up taking an extra 4 million hit to our overall payroll the next year after we sign AV to a new contract.

Granted some could say that's just giving Hammer away, but I'm leaving open the possibility that Shannon Brown could eat into his minutes (remember this is in December so LB should have a feel). Since we're in between cap and LT it might be nice to get a little flexibility.

Make sense?

[dav7z]

Tambs and Spectra , Im assuming this is the lineup we expecting on Nov 1st . Who do you see as the starting five and what is the rotation players coming off the beanch.

Me i see some starters but have no idea of the main rotation players
1, Felton starts DJ is back up.
2 Rich starts Carroll backs up
3 Wallace starts then who ? Morrison looked bad last night on the news . He still can't have contact drills?
4 May starts i think hes futher behind than Morrison , Davidson starts hes just starting to be able to contribute off the beanch.
Nazz or OK50 neither can guard out on the wing . So we get exploted again. Alexas is no where near ready to start Doughtful hes even ready for rotation play.
Wallace goes back to four then we just waiting for his carer to be over?
No good answer for that position with this line up .
5. Mek, Nazz, Hollins


Portland sets at 81 milion in the luxery tax With 17 players signed and about 30 Milion in expirings
Money needed to free up for players like Olden LMA. Baless , Roy.
What about in Frye, Rodriguez, Outlaw,
Out , Wallace
They get a big upgrade at the three with a good long term contract and may be a player who could compleat the best starting five in Basketball
We get a starting P/F a decent three starter of nice back up. And another young point
It works on the trade checker and im sure Portland dosen't want to pay twenty milion in extra taxes the next five years for uneeded players

The line up we got leads back to the lotery for another year . I think LB helps but can't find enough wins with out a four .
Felton my favoeite player or Wallace our best contracted player i would give up to make the line up solid, Wallace being the easyest player to give up because of Dudley and Morrison and Carroll may need to be considered to make us solid all the way through the line up.

Thoughts on somthing like this . unrealistic or not.

[spectre]

It all depends on May. If May is playing like he has no injury:

Felts/DJ
Swish/Hammer
Crash/Duds or Ammo
May/Davidson
Mek/Nazr

Which ain't bad, esp. if Davidson steps up.

If the more likely scenario plays out and May can only play 15 minutes every other game then I think he starts with:

Felts/DJ
Swish/Hammer
Crash/Duds or Ammo
Mek/Davidson
Nazr/Twigs

Agreed that lineup isn't optimal, but I think LB will have better success than the Idiot did. Supposedly LB likes Nazr, so I expect him to get some burn regardless.

Another thing on Varejao...I'm really not a big fan because I don't see him fitting so well with Mek offensively, but he can guard those PFs out to the perimeter.

[tamburello]

Spectre, are you assuming that Varejao will sign a deal close to 10 million? Because Pavlovic will receive close to 5 million next year, your 14.5 million end up as he'll take 9.5 or something. But if that will be take case, Varejao will be a BYC player... again. And this spoils all the calculations. He'll count as half of his salary you know.

Also Cavs have no different ideas than Heat, they'll try to save money for 2010 since they might need it badly to keep LeBron. Pavlovic and Varejao are expiring in 2010, Wallace and Carroll have much more longer deals. Their salary situation is not bright, either, they have the largest payroll in the league after Knicks. If they trade Szczerbiak for a continuing deal, they might screw everything up.

It's interesting they traded two expirings for Mo Williams' loaded contract, but I don't think they will repeat such a trade.

For your Portland trade, Dave, if Blazers accept, I'd do it any day of the year.

Although he will not solve our problems, I'll be so happy if sign Carl Landry to a 2+1 MLE contract. I don't want to see Emeka as a PF anymore. I don't want to wait for him to transform into a Duncan, which will never happen.

And although not relevant, just like to let you know that I think same as Rick Bonnell about our playoff hopes. I don't think we'll make playoffs with this roster. And we're badly stuck.

[Dead_Real]

Crash and McMay for Boozer and Brewer
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4757514

McMay and Hammer for Boone, Area 51 and Hassell
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4757511

Ammo for Charlie V
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4757515

[spectre]

Spectre, are you assuming that Varejao will sign a deal close to 10 million? Because Pavlovic will receive close to 5 million next year, your 14.5 million end up as he'll take 9.5 or something. But if that will be take case, Varejao will be a BYC player... again. And this spoils all the calculations. He'll count as half of his salary you know.

Also Cavs have no different ideas than Heat, they'll try to save money for 2010 since they might need it badly to keep LeBron. Pavlovic and Varejao are expiring in 2010, Wallace and Carroll have much more longer deals. Their salary situation is not bright, either, they have the largest payroll in the league after Knicks. If they trade Szczerbiak for a continuing deal, they might screw everything up.It's 30% isn't it, which puts him around 7.8 before he hits BYC. I was afraid of that. I guess it could still work taking them both for Crash and a minimal deal and then look to balance out the roster later on.

I'm not sure what the Cavs are planning on 2010 other than doing whatever they can to retain LBJ (which of course they can do regardless of the cap assuming Europe isn't in play). Maybe they are targeting another premier FA. If it was me I don't know that I would; they're serious contenders with LBJ and crap. If they just added good role players like they did with Mo Williams they could probably win it all without one.

Thanks Tamb.

[TheLegend]

Tambs and Spectra , Im assuming this is the lineup we expecting on Nov 1st . Who do you see as the starting five and what is the rotation players coming off the beanch.

Me i see some starters but have no idea of the main rotation players
1, Felton starts DJ is back up.
2 Rich starts Carroll backs up
3 Wallace starts then who ? Morrison looked bad last night on the news . He still can't have contact drills?
4 May starts i think hes futher behind than Morrison , Davidson starts hes just starting to be able to contribute off the beanch.
Nazz or OK50 neither can guard out on the wing . So we get exploted again. Alexas is no where near ready to start Doughtful hes even ready for rotation play.
Wallace goes back to four then we just waiting for his carer to be over?
No good answer for that position with this line up .
5. Mek, Nazz, Hollins


Portland sets at 81 milion in the luxery tax With 17 players signed and about 30 Milion in expirings
Money needed to free up for players like Olden LMA. Baless , Roy.
What about in Frye, Rodriguez, Outlaw,
Out , Wallace
They get a big upgrade at the three with a good long term contract and may be a player who could compleat the best starting five in Basketball
We get a starting P/F a decent three starter of nice back up. And another young point
It works on the trade checker and im sure Portland dosen't want to pay twenty milion in extra taxes the next five years for uneeded players

The line up we got leads back to the lotery for another year . I think LB helps but can't find enough wins with out a four .
Felton my favoeite player or Wallace our best contracted player i would give up to make the line up solid, Wallace being the easyest player to give up because of Dudley and Morrison and Carroll may need to be considered to make us solid all the way through the line up.

Thoughts on somthing like this . unrealistic or not.

When was that? Is there a video of him?

[dav7z]

When was that? Is there a video of him?

He was on the late night news last night at a golf turny for Diabetes. He looked as if he had lost weight to me . He had on shorts on and he looked like he had match sticks for legs.He just looked bad to me . In the interview he said he wasn't cleared for any contact drills yet. Amd hasn't started geting into basketball shape.

[ammofan]

He was on the late night news last night at a golf turny for Diabetes. He looked as if he had lost weight to me . He had on shorts on and he looked like he had match sticks for legs.He just looked bad to me . In the interview he said he wasn't cleared for any contact drills yet. Amd hasn't started geting into basketball shape.

He has always looked like that. He didn't look bad. His knee is obviously fine because he wouldn't be able to swing and driver if it was still hurting. But he will be playing in full contact drills soon. He practiced full speed at Summer league practice and says he will be 100% by training camp.

[tamburello]

It's 30% isn't it, which puts him around 7.8 before he hits BYC.


It's 20%. Here's explanation.


Usually, the salary used for comparison is the player's actual salary. But under either of the following circumstances, a different salary is used when comparing salaries for trading purposes:

* The team is over the salary cap, used the Larry Bird or Early Bird exception to re-sign the player, and the player received a raise greater than 20%.

* The team is over the salary cap, it extended the rookie scale contract of the player, and the player received a raise greater than 20%.

If either of the above apply, then the player is considered a base year player. A player remains a base year player for one. When trading a base year player, the salary used for comparison is defined as follows:


First year BYC
Previous year's salary or
50% of first-year salary in new contract*

*Whichever is greater

[dav7z]

Another thought
IN = Harrington from Golden State
OUT= Wallace
The line up looks a lot more balanced with Harrington playing P/F Harrington can all so play some small foward at 6.9. Rumors has it Golden State is shopimg Harrington.

Felton, DJ.
Rich , Carroll, Brown
Dudley of Morrison , who ever fits the best
Harrington, May, Davidson
Mek, Nazz , Hollins, A.A.
To me that looks much stronger than Wallace in the line up. Harrington could move down to three on certain teams for match up reasons.
It's not thet Harrington is better . This just solves a lot of match up problems.
Thoughts?



Give 30+mins per game he could be a 18 and 8 type player easy?



http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/

[spectre]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3002~617~2211~2753~3016&teams=30~30~13~13~13&te=&cash= (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3002%7E617%7E2211%7E2753%7E568&teams=30%7E30%7E13%7E13%7E13&te=&cash=)

Felts/Ammo/Hammer for Odom/Farmar

Sign Delonte West for part of the MLE (maybe 3 yrs/5 per).

West/Farmar/DJ
Swish/West/SB
Crash/Duds/Ammo
Odom/Davidson/May
Mek/Nazr/Twigs

They take on Hammer's contract to get Felts.

__________________________________________________ ___

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2426~617~2211~1026&teams=30~30~13~13&te=&cash= (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2426%7E617%7E2211%7E1026&teams=30%7E30%7E13%7E13&te=&cash=)

Crash/Hammer for Odom/Ariza

Sign Delonte West for part of the MLE (maybe 3 yrs/5 per).

Felts/West/DJ
Swish/West/SB
Duds/Ariza/Ammo
Odom/May/Davidson
Mek/Nazr/Twigs

The 3 spot is a little shaky, but IF Crash is trade bait then this scenario is better than most. Ariza will take up some of the slack on D that we'd lose with Crash.

I don't know that LAL would take on Hammer AND Crash due to both possibly being on the books thru 12/13.

After CLE traded for Williams I think they'll hesitate to give him any more than what they're now offering which I think is a little less than 4 per.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=617~2776~1026&teams=30~13~13&te=&cash= (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=617%7E2776%7E1026&teams=30%7E13%7E13&te=&cash=)

Crash/May for Odom

[dav7z]

I would love to pick up Odom . But i would much rather give up Crash to get him for two reasons only. I would want a little someone who knows the team playing point til DJ get adjusted.
We have a lot more quility debth at the three than the point.Good idea Spectra...Either trade i would jump on....................
What gets me is we are doing nothing to fill the P/F hole . Everone on Bobcatsplanet sees it . But our frunt office is hush hush .
We can come up with a dozen different trades . But so far we don't even have a idea the frunt office is even addressing the problem.
M, Thompson said the web site was going to get better . But we get NO news player blogs , Health reports, Player interviews, Trade rumors . Nothing not one damn piece of nothing coming out of that site. It just pisses me off paying big money to suport them . And thair site does nothing ,nothing at all. It makes me think they don't give a damn about us . So why am i still suporting them . The way the web site is run just pisses me off bad as a loyal fan of this team . It makes me fill they don't give a damn about no one . If my wife ran her sites that bad she would be fired in a weak . It's the poorest excuse of a site in all the NBA. Sorry guys i just had to get rid of some flusterations . Im really starting to lose faith in the organization.

[chabber]

As a Laker fan myself, that first trade scenario involving Felton can be thrown out. Fish/Farmar provide almost everything they need from a PG. I don't see how Felton improves the Lakers overall, especially if you take Odom off of the team. Besides that and just in general, value wise, the Lakers are sending out the better players and not getting enough back.

However from our standpoint I'd do it and never look back.....Ever.

West/Farmar/DJ
Swish/West/SB
Crash/Duds/Ammo
Odom/Davidson/May
Mek/Nazr/Twigs

No question. We definitely make the playoffs with this team.

----

Your idea in general of grabbing West at that price is a very good one though and I'm all for it. I'm much more inclined to move Felton instead of Wallace if we trying to find a PF and sign West to start the season.

The next two trade suggestions are both alright. I don't mind trading for Odom although he is an expiring next season. Trading Crash hurts but I'm really super scared of his concussions too. I'm kind of wishy washy on this one. I could do it and be happy or not do it and be just as good. Mostly because I really like both players and I don't think our record would change much either way.

[davcbow]

M, Thompson said the web site was going to get better . But we get NO news player blogs , Health reports, Player interviews, Trade rumors . Nothing not one damn piece of nothing coming out of that site. It just pisses me off paying big money to suport them . And thair site does nothing ,nothing at all. It makes me think they don't give a damn about us . So why am i still suporting them . The way the web site is run just pisses me off bad as a loyal fan of this team . It makes me fill they don't give a damn about no one . If my wife ran her sites that bad she would be fired in a weak . It's the poorest excuse of a site in all the NBA. Sorry guys i just had to get rid of some flusterations . Im really starting to lose faith in the organization.

I agree with you Dav about the web site, you can find out more by googling the Charlotte Bobcats than you can on the website. Its almost like they are don't want us to know anything at all about whats going on, which to me is totally nutz....

[spectre]

For the record I don't really care for any of them. If it was left up to me I'd rather just go with the status quo. :cool:

[chabber]

You really wouldn't do that first trade you mentioned and sign West?

[spectre]

You really wouldn't do that first trade you mentioned and sign West?

Nope. Neither West nor Farmar play "the right way", and LB's system depends way too much on the PG position. Odom would take up some of the slack as he's basically a "point/forward", but I think we'd be way too weak on handles and court vision.

I "know" Felton can play in LB's type of system because he's done it in the past under Williams...I don't know that with Farmar or West. My only motivation for getting West would be to replace Hammer. He's not as good a shooter but he's way better at defending the 2 and he has better handles, so he could be our 3rd PG as well.

I don't attribute near as much value to Farmar as it appears you do. I was only targeting him for depth. I could easily see him falling to 3rd PG status during the course of the season if a trade like that one I posted went down.

Besides, Odom has been up and down and I don't really want to throw any of the 4 starters away for him. As you said he's also an expiring, and I think we'd have to do very well in the season to have any hope of retaining him at decent value. Of all those deals I'd probably lean on doing the last one most, and that would only be because we've decided Crash's injury history is bothersome enough where we just want to get out of his contract.

[spectre]

For want of a better place, on Charlotte.com...

http://forums.prospero.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=kr-cltnba&msg=3935.5

I think adcoop made a nice observation.

From Mek's news conference:


(On what he’s worked on this summer)
I’ve worked on just basic mobility and also to be more effective away from the basket. I’m just trying to expand my game. Once I get more of a feel for Larry Brown’s system and what he has in store, I think my game will get a little more shape as well.Sounds like he's been working on guarding those mobile PFs in the league.

Hopefully not too bad of a hijack...this in reference to Dav asking about starting lineups.

[chabber]

I know they don't fit Brown's system as well as Felton does, however I don't even know that Felton will make Larry Brown happy either. I don't care what he did in college at UNC. He's in the NBA now and he hasn't made an impression on me enough to warrant him being labeled anything but a middle of the pack PG. West and Farmar definitely aren't prototypical PG's but that doesn't mean that the team wouldn't win or be better off than our current one where we have absolutely no one at PF.

At least with a trade like this we have a very good PF who quite possibly would be one of the better players on our team and definitely 2 but possibly 3 guys to rely on at PG one of which could have a bright future in DJ.

I agree about Farmar though. I don't think he has high value. However I do think atm he's proven to be better than either Carroll or Morrison. Especially if you factor in contracts, age etc..We'd definitely "Win" that trade and come out with more assets for the future as well.

[spectre]

I know they don't fit Brown's system as well as Felton does, however I don't even know that Felton will make Larry Brown happy either. I don't care what he did in college at UNC. He's in the NBA now and he hasn't made an impression on me enough to warrant him being labeled anything but a middle of the pack PG. West and Farmar definitely aren't prototypical PG's but that doesn't mean that the team wouldn't win or be better off than our current one where we have absolutely no one at PF.

At least with a trade like this we have a very good PF who quite possibly would be one of the better players on our team and definitely 2 but possibly 3 guys to rely on at PG one of which could have a bright future in DJ.

I agree about Farmar though. I don't think he has high value. However I do think atm he's proven to be better than either Carroll or Morrison. Especially if you factor in contracts, age etc..We'd definitely "Win" that trade and come out with more assets for the future as well.

I REALLY don't want to turn this thread into another Felton debate; there's a 5 page thread just a few clicks down. I will say though that LB certainly appears "happy" with Felton right now at least...enough to tell both Cleveland and Sacramento that "neither PG is available".

You might not care what he did in college, but at least he's been a "pass first" PG somewhere. Can either West or Farmar say that (maybe they can...I don't know)? LB's system should be very similar to Williams', so at the least there should be some familiarity.

So far as winning the trade and future assets...I don't really see how, esp. if Odom leaves after next season. We'd basically have given up Felton/Ammo/Hammer for Farmar and capspace. West is separate from the trade.

[Ghost Kat]

Free O.J.!!!!!!!


Again

[spectre]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3415~2753~1026~1027~3468~1731&teams=25~25~25~30~30~30&te=&cash= (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3415%7E2753%7E1026%7E1027%7E34 68%7E1731&teams=25%7E25%7E25%7E30%7E30%7E30&te=&cash=)

Oklahoma City

Incoming Players

Raymond Felton
Salary: $4,148,715 Years Remaining: 1
D.J. Augustin
Salary: $2,208,960 Years Remaining: 2
Gerald Wallace
Salary: $9,500,000 Years Remaining: 4

Outgoing Players: Chris Wilcox, Earl Watson, Russell Westbrook


Charlotte Bobcats

Incoming Players

Chris Wilcox
Salary: $6,750,000 Years Remaining: 1
Earl Watson
Salary: $6,200,000 Years Remaining: 2
Russell Westbrook
Salary: $3,493,680 Years Remaining: 2

Outgoing Players: Raymond Felton, D.J. Augustin, Gerald Wallace

Watson/Westbrook
Westbrook/Hammer/Brown
Swish/Duds/Ammo
Wilcox/Davidson/May
Mek/Nazr/Hollins

We balance out the roster somewhat, lose in playmaking but gain bigtime if Westbrook can "be all he can be". We get weaker defensively at the 3 but get a LOT better defensively at the 2.

OKC dumps Watson's last 2 years, but gives up the potential of Westbrook & Wilcox's expiring.

Felton/DJ
Durant/Mason/Wilkins
Crash/Green

About 7 guys who can play the 4/5.


* I'm just throwing trades out there...that doesn't mean I'm particularly for (or against) any of them.

[dav7z]

Not a fan of that trade . I kinda feel we giving up to much core thair. nice thought though.

[dav7z]

Hear is a few thet work .
OUT, May, Dudley IN, Roderguez, Frye
OUT, Nazr IN, Wilcox
Out,Augustine, Wallace, IN, Randolph,Harrington
Thoughts on any.............

[ziggy]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3415~2753~1026~1027~3468~1731&teams=25~25~25~30~30~30&te=&cash= (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3415%7E2753%7E1026%7E1027%7E34 68%7E1731&teams=25%7E25%7E25%7E30%7E30%7E30&te=&cash=)

Oklahoma City

Incoming Players

Raymond Felton
Salary: $4,148,715 Years Remaining: 1
D.J. Augustin
Salary: $2,208,960 Years Remaining: 2
Gerald Wallace
Salary: $9,500,000 Years Remaining: 4

Outgoing Players: Chris Wilcox, Earl Watson, Russell Westbrook


Charlotte Bobcats

Incoming Players

Chris Wilcox
Salary: $6,750,000 Years Remaining: 1
Earl Watson
Salary: $6,200,000 Years Remaining: 2
Russell Westbrook
Salary: $3,493,680 Years Remaining: 2

Outgoing Players: Raymond Felton, D.J. Augustin, Gerald Wallace

Watson/Westbrook
Westbrook/Hammer/Brown
Swish/Duds/Ammo
Wilcox/Davidson/May
Mek/Nazr/Hollins

We balance out the roster somewhat, lose in playmaking but gain bigtime if Westbrook can "be all he can be". We get weaker defensively at the 3 but get a LOT better defensively at the 2.

OKC dumps Watson's last 2 years, but gives up the potential of Westbrook & Wilcox's expiring.

Felton/DJ
Durant/Mason/Wilkins
Crash/Green

About 7 guys who can play the 4/5.


* I'm just throwing trades out there...that doesn't mean I'm particularly for (or against) any of them.
As much as I like Westbrook, its just too much to give up in my opinion. Its close though

[Slam]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3415~2753~1026~1027~3468~1731&teams=25~25~25~30~30~30&te=&cash= (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3415%7E2753%7E1026%7E1027%7E34 68%7E1731&teams=25%7E25%7E25%7E30%7E30%7E30&te=&cash=)

Oklahoma City

Incoming Players

Raymond Felton
Salary: $4,148,715 Years Remaining: 1
D.J. Augustin
Salary: $2,208,960 Years Remaining: 2
Gerald Wallace
Salary: $9,500,000 Years Remaining: 4

Outgoing Players: Chris Wilcox, Earl Watson, Russell Westbrook


Charlotte Bobcats

Incoming Players

Chris Wilcox
Salary: $6,750,000 Years Remaining: 1
Earl Watson
Salary: $6,200,000 Years Remaining: 2
Russell Westbrook
Salary: $3,493,680 Years Remaining: 2

Outgoing Players: Raymond Felton, D.J. Augustin, Gerald Wallace

Watson/Westbrook
Westbrook/Hammer/Brown
Swish/Duds/Ammo
Wilcox/Davidson/May
Mek/Nazr/Hollins

We balance out the roster somewhat, lose in playmaking but gain bigtime if Westbrook can "be all he can be". We get weaker defensively at the 3 but get a LOT better defensively at the 2.

OKC dumps Watson's last 2 years, but gives up the potential of Westbrook & Wilcox's expiring.

Felton/DJ
Durant/Mason/Wilkins
Crash/Green

About 7 guys who can play the 4/5.


* I'm just throwing trades out there...that doesn't mean I'm particularly for (or against) any of them.
Usually when I read a trade idea I know straight away within 3 or 4 seconds if I am for or against it, but this one, man oh man..............I've read it 4 or 5 times, scratched the head a few times and I still don't know which way I would lean.

Props to you for thinking outside of the box and coming up with it.

Need some time to think about it a little more before I can decide which way I would go.

Any chance you could swing it so we retain DJ in the deal to back up Watson? That would go a LONG way in getting me on board!!

[davcbow]

Im against trading any of our core players...........:cool:

[chabber]

I really, really don't like that trade.

[spectre]

Usually when I read a trade idea I know straight away within 3 or 4 seconds if I am for or against it, but this one, man oh man..............I've read it 4 or 5 times, scratched the head a few times and I still don't know which way I would lean.

Props to you for thinking outside of the box and coming up with it.

Need some time to think about it a little more before I can decide which way I would go.

Any chance you could swing it so we retain DJ in the deal to back up Watson? That would go a LONG way in getting me on board!!

Probably not. We were talking to Seattle about moving up to 4th to (I assume) get Westbrook, so I was trying to base this on what I thought they might be asking for.

9th pick/Crash...we most likely offered this. The question is did we refuse to do anything more or was Seattle being just flat out unreasonable?

Felton for Watson...they would probably consider this a + from their side. They don't save more than 2-3 million but Felton should be a better trade asset as he still has some potential. I don't know that Seattle would consider the difference being enough to add in Wilcox however; not only is he decent but he's also an expiring.

Hell, it wouldn't shock me if OKC turned this down, esp. since we'd most likely be the team initiating the talks.

From their POV:

Crash has had 4 concussions
Felton has been a disappointment
DJ is projected as a bench player by many

Westbrook could be the 2nd coming of Flash...and he plays defense!
Teams very well could offer something nice for Wilcox at the deadline

I think they'd be better balanced after this trade and would probably win more games...but does their ownership really care that much? They'll have a nice honeymoon in OKC so they have time.

I will say one thing though; this is the type of trade I'd expect Jordan to be involved in...the boy loves to gamble.

[spectre]

This Trade Succeeded! Go back (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trademachine?teams=23%7E30&players=1726%7E575%7E1026&sendto=30%7E30%7E23&from=23%7E23%7E30&te=na%7Ena%7Ena) to adjust your trade or start over (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trademachine).
http://assets.espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nba/sml/trans/sac.gifSacramento Kings

Incoming Players

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/35x48/3533.jpgGerald Wallace

Salary: $9,500,000 Years Remaining: 4

Outgoing Players: John Salmons, Mikki Moore, Cash (700k)

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nba/sml/trans/cha.gifCharlotte Bobcats

Incoming Players

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/35x48/3624.jpgJohn Salmons

Salary: $5,104,000 Years Remaining: 3

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/35x48/3308.jpgMikki Moore

Salary: $5,632,200 Years Remaining: 2

Cash: 700,000

Outgoing Players: Gerald Wallace

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=575~1726~1026&teams=30~30~23&te=&cash= (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=575%7E1726%7E1026&teams=30%7E30%7E23&te=&cash=)

They might possibly add in Douby for May if it's too weak from our side. The cash is for the 12.5% trade kicker Moore has on his contract.

They just lost Artest so I'd have to think they'd be happy to get a similar less crazy (albeit more injury prone) player in Crash. Salmons IMO isn't as good as Crash but he does put up similar numbers (factor in his 7 minutes less PT). Because of that the Kings might balk due to the length of Crash's deal, but I think what balances that is they'd love to move Moore in order to get time for their kids. They also save over 1 million this season in salary.

We do it to get a PF who can shoot the midrange and a slightly lesser version of Crash in Salmons.

Moore only has 2 million guaranteed on his salary next year.

[Slam]

I can't believe so many are poo-poo'ing the Seatle idea. We were all drooling over Westbrook leading up to the draft and begging to land him.

I doubt Seatle would do this deal, even if we would.

[Slam]

I don't like the Kings deal.

Moore is 33 and coming to the end so it sort of works out to be Crash for Salmons - and I don't think that is near enough.

I'd want an unprotected 1st from them to even consider this deal.

[WAM9]

I'm not a fan of the Kings deal either. Moore was just acquired for a 2nd round pick (I think) and he is 33 years old. Salmons isn't bad but we should be able to do much better for Wallace.

[spectre]

I'm not a fan of the Kings deal either. Moore was just acquired for a 2nd round pick (I think) and he is 33 years old. Salmons isn't bad but we should be able to do much better for Wallace.

Moore was taken in FA by the Kings after he had a really good year with the Nets...they signed him to a full MLE deal.

I wouldn't do this trade either, but that's because I think Crash is the best player and I very seldom agree to giving up quality for quantity.