View Full Version : R. Felton or DJ Augustin??
After Watching the last two games of the preseason and observing felton disappointingly the past seasons, i would have to say D.J. should get the nod as our pg starter. Nothing againsty Ray, but except experience, all positives go to dj, speed, passing and penetration. And if there are teams out there who would trade a solid PF for felton, i think we should trade him.
ziggy
10-11-2008, 07:25 AM
This is funny because I was just thinking to myself that if Ray doesn't start looking better in the next few preseason games, folks are going to start the "DJ -vs- Ray" debate.
OK Folks, have at it!!!!
I predict that this thread may rival the "Fire Sam Vincent" thread as far as activity.
dnbman
10-11-2008, 08:25 AM
I don't think two games in to the preseason is much to go on, especially since neither has been especially great.
That being said, I still expect more from Felton. I understand why Augustine hasn't been that impressive.
Dead_Real
10-11-2008, 08:27 AM
I don't think two games in to the preseason is much to go on, especially since neither has been especially great.
That being said, I still expect more from Felton. I understand why Augustine hasn't been that impressive.
what he said.
spectre
10-11-2008, 08:41 AM
Ditto.
Funny how the two guys who worked out all summer (Felton/Swish) seem to be struggling so much. That being said, this is PRE season and all the guys are trying to deal with information overload. The PG in a Larry Brown offense has a lot on his plate...and even though DJ's shooting numbers (NOT his assist/TO numbers) are better neither seem to be doing so well with what their main role is.
That being said DJ does seem to be holding his own, enough to where a comparison comes close to being a "wash". I don't see Felton not hitting any of his first 7 shots as such a big deal (are we shipping Hammer off too for going 0 for 6 or for Swish shooting in the high 20s?); however unless Felton can separate himself in taking control of the team then it is DJ's to take.
ohara831
10-11-2008, 09:05 AM
DJ is going to be good, and I feel at some point this season will in fact take over the starting PG role. That said, he wont be ready at the start of the season. Ray's experience will make him the better starter right now. Remember, CP3 had a not so spectacular and blazing start, but by the end of year 1 people knew he was going to be awesome. I'm not saying DJ is going to be another CP3, but he will exceed anything Ray has the ability to become. That is just my feeling on how good DJ will become. But for the first of the season, DJ has to watch Ray and learn from his good and bad play and use that to become the leader of this team later.
SWedd523
10-11-2008, 09:40 AM
I would like to see Ray stay until he shows he can't perform. I don't really see how PRESEASON is enough to make people change their minds on him.
Wait until the season starts, give him a few games, and see how he does. If he plays badly--bring DJ in.
I'm not going to just give up on him during the preseason.
ammofan
10-11-2008, 11:20 AM
I would like to see Ray stay until he shows he can't perform. I don't really see how PRESEASON is enough to make people change their minds on him.
Wait until the season starts, give him a few games, and see how he does. If he plays badly--bring DJ in.
I'm not going to just give up on him during the preseason.
But the preseason is just proving alot of our thoughts on him that we have already had. We are not suprised that Felton is doing bad.....I kind of expected it :{
Mustachio
10-11-2008, 11:52 AM
ITS PRESEASON. nothing that happens from right now until the first regular season game means anything. nothing. For all we know, this team could be filtering offense to Sean May so that he can catch up. or they could be slowing everything down to try and maximize their learning ability. its preseason.. a time to test stuff, a time to get good live game film in situations that dont count.
Felton should absolutely not be benched until he has been thoroughly beaten out by DJ when games actually count.. end of thread.
SWedd523
10-11-2008, 12:00 PM
ITS PRESEASON. nothing that happens from right now until the first regular season game means anything. nothing. For all we know, this team could be filtering offense to Sean May so that he can catch up. or they could be slowing everything down to try and maximize their learning ability. its preseason.. a time to test stuff, a time to get good live game film in situations that dont count.
Felton should absolutely not be benched until he has been thoroughly beaten out by DJ when games actually count.. end of thread.
Thank you. My exact sentiment. Couldn't have said it better myself:cool:
ALong13
10-11-2008, 09:26 PM
As a lot have mentioned, this is preseason it means nothing. The players are rusty and habe been loaded with new plays. Also both of these players are going through a brand new system, but IMHO its harder for Ray because he's had to learn 3 different systems in just as many seasons...
I think Ray starts opening night, and I honestly think he's the starter at the end of the season. DJ will come off the bench, but that could be a good thing, wouldn't lose a beat...
TheBeagle
10-12-2008, 12:38 AM
ITS PRESEASON. nothing that happens from right now until the first regular season game means anything. nothing. For all we know, this team could be filtering offense to Sean May so that he can catch up. or they could be slowing everything down to try and maximize their learning ability. its preseason.. a time to test stuff, a time to get good live game film in situations that dont count.
Felton should absolutely not be benched until he has been thoroughly beaten out by DJ when games actually count.. end of thread. I'll let the Raymond/DJ thing slide, as I think the best PG will get the job whoever that turns out to be.
As for Mustacio's first paragraph: ABSOLUTELY! I've felt this way about preseason NBA games since I was a youngin pulling for the Hawks: what the hell does it matter? It's PREseason. If we can get through all games with no serious injuries, it will be a very good preseason, even should we go winless. It's all speculatiln, but I tend to agree with Mustachio that coach isn't "coaching them up" to win preseason games; he's taking advantage of these exhibitions to further the paradigm shift that began during training camp last week. It's cool that some of y'all are getting so riled up about the preseason, but let's not get the torches and pitchforks out just yet on Raymond.
My simple thoughts are that Felton is the starter and probably will remain the starter for the near future. A better gauge will be how many minutes each are getting.
If the front office decides in the first month or two (doubtful) that DJ is good enough to be the starter, I bet Felton is moved before the All-Star Break. Dealing a starter usually gets you more in return than a back-up who was recently benched. Maybe for a PF?
I personally think that we will be doing well enough record-wise for the FO to not make a move regarding Felton /DJ until after the season. We have point guard depth right now but if we move Felton and don't get at least a back up point in the return deal, then we will be really thin at the 1 spot as usual.
This is not even a debate. Larry Brown won't even think about benching Felton and starting DJ until like 15-20 games into the season, and that's if Felton under performs.
coordinator0
10-21-2008, 07:15 PM
If we are going to move Felton, one of the places that it might be to is Milwaukee. I'd say that we would be able to get Villanueva in return, but not a backup PG. I don't know how this move would work out though, personally I like him but I doubt many more do.
ammofan
10-21-2008, 07:33 PM
Bucks would make sense since they just traded Mo Williams
ziggy
10-21-2008, 08:14 PM
I was speaking with blogger extraordinare and bigtime stat guru Brett from Queen City Hoops (http://www.queencityhoops.com) earlier today and he threw this stat out to me.
With Felton at PG, The starters have played 50+ minutes together so far - they are -42.7 points per 100 possessions over that time
With DJ, and the other starters - they are at +17.9 over 14.4 minutes
I realize this is a small set of data to look at, but it does make you go hmmm.
SWedd523
10-21-2008, 08:36 PM
I was speaking with blogger extraordinare and bigtime stat guru Brett from Queen City Hoops (http://www.queencityhoops.com) earlier today and he threw this stat out to me.
With Felton at PG, The starters have played 50+ minutes together so far - they are -42.7 points per 100 possessions over that time
With DJ, and the other starters - they are at +17.9 over 14.4 minutes
I realize this is a small set of data to look at, but it does make you go hmmm.
Well the team certainly LOOKS like it fits better with DJ out there. He just seems like he controls the team better.. I'm sad to say it, but so far it's looking like DJ is the man for us. We'll see if he starts getting more and more time as the season begins.
If he keeps this better performance up I wonder how long until he becomes the starter and we ship Felts
ohara831
10-21-2008, 08:58 PM
If it is possible to ship Ray and a bench player, be it Ammo or whomever, we should do it for a quality PF and a good backup PG. Do it now rather than 1/2 thru the season when we may have fallen too far back to catch up. Make the move now so we still have some preseason time to acclimate to each other. DJ can handle the starting PG, we just need a good backup.
davcbow
10-21-2008, 09:02 PM
If it is possible to ship Ray and a bench player, be it Ammo or whomever, we should do it for a quality PF and a good backup PG. Do it now rather than 1/2 thru the season when we may have fallen too far back to catch up. Make the move now so we still have some preseason time to acclimate to each other. DJ can handle the starting PG, we just need a good backup.
If Felts keeps making the mistakes like last night against Phoenix it won't take very long at all...A 3 year man still making rookie mistakes...:cool:
ohara831
10-21-2008, 09:07 PM
This double break in my humerus has me on some high powered meds. I'll be out for the night in 30 minutes. I'll wake up around 4:00 for more meds and I'll see if he did better vs the LAKERS. If not, something may happen soon.
Bucks would make sense since they just traded Mo Williams
Except for the fact they already have Sessions and Ridnour.
SWedd523
10-21-2008, 09:12 PM
I hate to say it, but it looks like the presence of DJ has done more to rattle Felts' cage than to provide competition.
We were all banking on DJ coming in and pushing Felts to being a better player, but its sadly done the opposite....
Guys, Felts has had to endure two years of suspect coaching, 1 year of down right terrible coaching and now a totally new system under a new coach that is said to be pretty complicated.
What's say we give him until at LEAST Christmas before we send out the lynching mob?
Marvel
10-21-2008, 11:10 PM
I would say Felton is the better player right now due to experience but what can you say when you got 2 quality points.So sooner or later Felton is gonna get traded and D.J will takeover,worthy of doing so.
I would say Felton is the better player right now due to experience but what can you say when you got 2 quality points.So sooner or later Felton is gonna get traded and D.J will takeover,worthy of doing so.
I say that if that happened we would be in a better position at the point than 99% of other teams in the NBA and you don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
Ghost Kat
10-23-2008, 01:23 AM
I haven't seen them play yet in live action. I'll get my first look tomorrow night with the Lakers. But i've looked at the box scores after the games and in less minutes DJ has pretty much the same stats as Felton. Now if Felton is a leader on this team and rightful ower of the starting spot with his 3yrs in the league, why does he basically have the same stats as a rookie? So is Felton playing like a rookie or is DJ playin like a 3rd yr? I'd love to think DJ was playin that good but to be honest they both suck so far in the preseaon. But it seems DJ sucks less. From what i've read the offense seems to run better with DJ. I think Felton has more turnovers then DJ, So all that where saying this is going to be Feltons break out year...I'm waiting...Just like i have been since he was drafted.
ziggy
10-30-2008, 10:02 PM
bumping this thread just to throw gasoline on the fire.
DJ certainly outperformed him tonight against Cleveland...I have doubts that this will change anything right now though...it looks like Raymond is really pressing rather than taking control...the lousy shot selection (pretty much by everyone) in the first qt. did not help...third qt. looked good but then fell apart 4th...DJ looked solid when he played so it will be interesting...
ohara831
10-30-2008, 10:27 PM
I'll bite.
Ray: 5 pts 5 assts in 33.33 min and we're -11
DJ 12 pts 2 assts in 25.08 min and we're -20
DJ is ahead of the curve for a Rookie. I didn't see whole game, but assume DJ played w/ more of the 2nd stringers in than Ray. But I bet DJ did play some w/ the other 4 starters. Anyway, I expect DJ to slowly get more and more time w/ starting 4 to see if on an equal basis he outplays Ray. My guess is he does.
That is pretty much correct ohara...and there was a period of time when they were in together....the run we made (actually cut it to 5 pts in 3rd qt) had little to do with Raymond JRich just took the game over at that point...he really played very well...Ray is a good PG IMO but it really looks like he was pressing tonight and I don't know if he is hearing foot steps and not responding well or he is just not relaxed with the new system yet or a combination...DJ looked more relaxed and looked better scoring but then he is not under the same pressure...yet...
Marvel
10-30-2008, 10:44 PM
Is that because DJ was in with the 2ND UNIT hmmmm
dav7z
10-30-2008, 10:53 PM
That is pretty much correct ohara...and there was a period of time when they were in together....the run we made (actually cut it to 5 pts in 3rd qt) had little to do with Raymond JRich just took the game over at that point...he really played very well...Ray is a good PG IMO but it really looks like he was pressing tonight and I don't know if he is hearing foot steps and not responding well or he is just not relaxed with the new system yet or a combination...DJ looked more relaxed and looked better scoring but then he is not under the same pressure...yet...
Brnc i have to disagree about that . In the third Felton with NAZZ going big cut the lead to five. DJ was lost and had way to many turn overs five. When Felton came out the lead went to dubble digets fast . Thats why DJ WAS -20 in the box score leading the team in that as well as turn overs . In addition he couldn't guard either Williams or Gibson. But that was his first game . Given time he might take the starting spot . He does have a little better stroke than Felton. As for now hes no where near taking a starting spot.
I'm not pushing DJ as the starter...I actually like Ray better...but the lead going back in favor of the Cavs had to do with a total team melt down in the 4th not just DJ...I thought DJ had the better over all game...I still think Ray is the better PG...frankly I was disappointed that we drafted hin since I wanted Jason Thompson and Chalmers and I think we'd be a better team with them...my concern is that Ray (for what ever reason) is not responding well at this point...but I also think it is going to take 15-20 games to really know how we are doing...Boxscore has Ray with 2 TO and DJ 4...total team 13 which is not as sloppy as they played preseason...I thought Ray had a better defensive game but the 4th qt was poor defensive effort by everyone...
After the 1st game: Felton (minus his terrible fg%) played a better game than DJ. He did make some bonehead moves, however, everyone out there with the name Bobcats on their jersey made some boneheaded moves.
I think he will be consistently better at finding his teammates and playing superior D than DJ. The question you have to ask yourself is if/and when will his shot start to fall and do you bench him for DJ who after one game seems to have more control over his shot. We could really use points from somewhere. If that continues to be the case then maybe DJ. Although I hold out hope that by mid-season Felts and DJ both are running the LB system and running it well.
BTW Felton got destroyed by Gibson tonight so idk about superior D.
BTW Felton got destroyed by Gibson tonight so idk about superior D.
He stays in front of his man better. He did have a tendency though to move off of his man to help to often. That is how Gibson got all of those threes. Cleveland penetrates, 3 Bobcats swarm, wide open Boobie, swish.
Defensive switches were slow at times but I thought of it more as a team proble rather than individual and I think it will get better...
Defensive switches were slow at times but I thought of it more as a team proble rather than individual and I think it will get better...
Best post of the day.
We seem to be clueless AS A TEAM when it comes to reading what the opposing team is going to do and switching to make the cover.
By the time we clue in it's too late, the ball has been swung, we react too slowly and it's wide open Boobie (or any insert any other little prick here), swish.
Our team court awareness was very ordinary last night.
(in saying all that, DJ did what Spectre has been saying is his biggest flaw on D all night - which is run around screens and not through them. Can't do that or you'll get burnt)
Ordinary and seemingly clueless at times...my hope is that since the team has been under-coached (particularly last year) without high expectations that we see improvements...at least that is my hope...
Ordinary and seemingly clueless at times...my hope is that since the team has been under-coached (particularly last year) without high expectations that we see improvements...at least that is my hope...
Agreed. The intent is there and it's not like we have lazy players. It'll (hopefully) just be an adjustment period we are going through.
I thought DJ did a good job of drawing fouls in the 4th and getting to the line and Felts was trying to be more physical.
Both guys were below where I expected each of them to be (I have different expectations for each one)
I think we'll get better as a team without having to blow it up...they turned the ball over less last night than preseason which I was pleased about...Ray and DJ both had mediocre games for various reasons but my biggest disappointment is still with Crash and the silly (stupid) fouls...it is a bad habit he needs to break...and I know he is a high energy type player but he's been around long enough to cut those out...and frankly I was very concerned about the fact the Cavs seemed to get every loose ball...I think our guys play with effort but I did not see them playing with smarts and attitude...I hope that changes as they get more comfortable with LB system...
Mustachio
10-31-2008, 02:30 PM
I thought it was interesting that in the 3rd quarter our defense was actually pretty dang good and we closed the gap on them. Just shows me that when they do get his coaching and get used to the system it will work. (Lebron being out for long stretches was an obvious help, but i still think we played better D in the 3rd than any other time)
I hate the Cavs so much. I know they are better than us, but they act like it on the court and it pisses me off. Keeping Bron off for very long extended minutes, then reinserting him during garbage time to pad his stats. just they way they always play us is cocky. I can't wait till we are good enough to put an end to it... revenge is coming Cleveland...revenge is coming.
tondi
10-31-2008, 08:27 PM
Why do we insist on playing Felton at SG? How many successful 6ft shooting guards have there been lately in the NBA? I thought we put this to bed the last half of last season when Felton was playing PG pretty well and the team was winning. This season, we don't even make it a half before Ray is out there playing SG again. It's not like we are void of SG's on the roster. What gives?
Even if they want Augustin to be the PG of the future they aren't helping Feltons trade value by playing him out of position where he is clearly overmatched.
docend24
10-31-2008, 10:21 PM
I agree I would rather see J-Rich at Pg than this.
Keetch
11-01-2008, 08:42 AM
Weren't they playing Felton at point and DJ at SG? Either way, they were pretty much interchangable.
Why do we insist on playing Felton at SG? How many successful 6ft shooting guards have there been lately in the NBA? I thought we put this to bed the last half of last season when Felton was playing PG pretty well and the team was winning. This season, we don't even make it a half before Ray is out there playing SG again. It's not like we are void of SG's on the roster. What gives?
Even if they want Augustin to be the PG of the future they aren't helping Feltons trade value by playing him out of position where he is clearly overmatched.
I think if we are going up against a team that has a back court featuring Mo Williams, Delonte West and Tits Gibson then playing Felts and DJ together is more than justified.
dnbman
11-01-2008, 11:26 AM
I think if we are going up against a team that has a back court featuring Mo Williams, Delonte West and Tits Gibson then playing Felts and DJ together is more than justified.
agreed. If the other team is throwing out short combo guards and double point guards, I don't mind Brown doing the same.
Ghost Kat
11-01-2008, 05:11 PM
All good points made...But i doubt i have to remind any of you that Felton isn't a rookie. DJ is and the fact the DJ is playin just as well or bad however you look at it...That says something about Felton. I remember a post we had a couple monthes ago where i stated Felton cant shoot. I don't think i have to defend my arguement anymore. DJ has one pro game under his belt and already we are split on who will be starting by the end of the year. Where is the leadership from Felton? You don't lead by shooting 1-10, Thats goes for everyone else on the team. I have only seen one game but i check the box scores and every game i think DJ has had a higher rating then Felton....By the end of the year You will all be on the DJ bandwagon with me.
dnbman
11-01-2008, 11:24 PM
By the end of the year You will all be on the DJ bandwagon with me.
That may be the case, but Felton played a great game tonight on both ends of the floor. He didn't do much that was flashy, but our offense flowed rather nicely.
TheBeagle
11-02-2008, 01:11 AM
That may be the case, but Felton played a great game tonight on both ends of the floor. He didn't do much that was flashy, but our offense flowed rather nicely. As far as I'm concerned, Raymond played one of the best games of his career tonight. He had a couple boneheads, as is usual with Raymond, but there was no forcing, and he looked comfortable and so quick tonight. No, if tonight showed me anything, it's that Raymond is the starter for the forseeable future, as DJ has quite a ways to go before he can think starter...I mean, really, he got his pocket picked by Marcus Banks for crying out loud!!! It was still a solid game from him, but Raymond is our 1 if we want to win.
Also, when matchups dictate, I'm fine with a Raymond/DJ backcourt. As shaky as DJ is with the ball when pressured, I like the safety valve that Raymond provides.
I agree...most of us realize that we also need 2 PGs on the team...as disappointed as I was with Ray in the Cavs game (mainly he looked to me like he was pressing himself) he looked a lot more comfortable in the flow against the Heat...the whole team looked more comfortable and I just hope it continues...
mrtarheel
11-02-2008, 10:40 AM
Raymond gets the heads up for me. Last night he didn't pressure much but DJ showed to much dribbling to me. He forced a couple of shots and like you said ripped by Marcus Banks. He will provide us with a great back up to Felts something we have needed for awhile. Keeping both would be a great asset for this team.
Ghost Kat
11-02-2008, 11:36 AM
DJ is a rookie PG so your right to complain about his turnovers. I didn't see the game last night and I know the best thing for the team is having two productive PG's, But Felton is in a contract year. If for nothing else but job secruity he has to play well. Since neither of them are shooting well the only major knock on DJ so far is he turns the ball over to much. No one is sayin he can't play, No one is sayin he couldn't be a starter, just that he's not ready...(today). Agreed, But from a business stand point you have a rookie PG with potential you've locked up for four to five yrs. U have a starting PG in Felton who has under produced and is getting to the end of his contract. What do you do? One of them will end up being a over paid back up, Unless Larry Brown runs a Panthers style running game and uses both his PG's and gives them equal minutes... Doubtful
docend24
11-02-2008, 03:05 PM
The thing that DJ is heading the direction by November of his rookie season is enough for me. Under Larry Brown it is matter of time to work out his major flaws. He will be more than fine next season.
Felton for Prez
11-03-2008, 04:27 PM
But from a business stand point you have a rookie PG with potential you've locked up for four to five yrs. U have a starting PG in Felton who has under produced and is getting to the end of his contract. What do you do?
What do you do? You play the guy that is going give you the best chance of winning. I don't care if that guy is playing better because its a contract year or how long the guy has been on the team. Right now, Felton gives us the best chance to win games today. Should the 4th yr vet be running circles around the raw rookie? Probably, but he's not. We all thought (well...a lot of people, maybe not all) thought Felt would develop differently than he did. We need to give this some time to play out. Maybe DJ hits a rookie wall. Maybe Felts steps it up as a payday gets closer. Maybe vice versa. It'll be interesting, that's for sure, but micro analyzing every game is only going to drive us all nuts.
dav7z
11-03-2008, 04:40 PM
What do you do? You play the guy that is going give you the best chance of winning. I don't care if that guy is playing better because its a contract year or how long the guy has been on the team. Right now, Felton gives us the best chance to win games today. Should the 4th yr vet be running circles around the raw rookie? Probably, but he's not. We all thought (well...a lot of people, maybe not all) thought Felt would develop differently than he did. We need to give this some time to play out. Maybe DJ hits a rookie wall. Maybe Felts steps it up as a payday gets closer. Maybe vice versa. It'll be interesting, that's for sure, but micro analyzing every game is only going to drive us all nuts.
Compleatly agree with ya. Its clear Brown likes DJ but baring a trade Felton gets the start at least til All star break. Analyzing every game is a bit much. Ill leave that to coach Brown.
ziggy
11-21-2008, 09:32 PM
Shameless Bump ;)
davcbow
11-21-2008, 10:12 PM
Compleatly agree with ya. Its clear Brown likes DJ but baring a trade Felton gets the start at least til All star break. Analyzing every game is a bit much. Ill leave that to coach Brown.
I beg to differ with ya dav but I think tonight's game against Atlanta DJ just may have won the starting job....:cool:
ohara831
11-21-2008, 10:13 PM
Time is ticking Ray. Your time is about up. DJ has a ceiling much higher than yours and he is already gaining confidence to outdo you after only 11 games.
Don't care - so long as one of them ends up being a stud PG sooner rather than later and all the better for us if both of them do.
ammofan
11-21-2008, 10:49 PM
DJ is better.....he proved to me tonight
SWedd523
11-22-2008, 01:28 AM
Let's calm down guys. I think it's just about as stupid as it gets how when we're losing:
we want to blow up the team and trade and trade and the team sucks and LB is a terrible coach and Felts sucks and we should've drafted Brook Lopez instead of DJ.
but when we win:
we praise everything LB has ever done, DJ was the best pick ever, Felts is great, Emeka plays with heart, etc.
Let's stop being hypocrites and pick a side in the argument, vacillation is NOT good:rolleyes:
davcbow
11-22-2008, 01:58 AM
Let's calm down guys. I think it's just about as stupid as it gets how when we're losing:
we want to blow up the team and trade and trade and the team sucks and LB is a terrible coach and Felts sucks and we should've drafted Brook Lopez instead of DJ.
I've never once said any of that....I have said this team was a mess when LB took over and that he can't wiggle his nose and make it all better in just a preseason and a few games into the season....
but when we win:
we praise everything LB has ever done, DJ was the best pick ever, Felts is great, Emeka plays with heart, etc.I always have faith in LB, and the more I see DJ play the more I think he just may have been the best pick ever. Felts is ok not great and Mek I'm still hopeful but slowly losing faith in.....
Let's stop being hypocrites and pick a side in the argument, vacillation is NOT good:rolleyes:I guess youre not talking about me then.....
SWedd523
11-22-2008, 02:00 AM
I guess youre not talking about me then.....
I would guess not;)
Marvel
11-22-2008, 02:10 AM
Let's calm down guys. I think it's just about as stupid as it gets how when we're losing:
we want to blow up the team and trade and trade and the team sucks and LB is a terrible coach and Felts sucks and we should've drafted Brook Lopez instead of DJ.
but when we win:
we praise everything LB has ever done, DJ was the best pick ever, Felts is great, Emeka plays with heart, etc.
Let's stop being hypocrites and pick a side in the argument, vacillation is NOT good:rolleyes:
What you talkin bout Willis
bellringer21
11-22-2008, 04:15 PM
DJ should be starting.....the sooner we get through his growing pains the better off he is and we are.
Felton is a part of this team and could see some time at the 2.....I can see a 3 guard rotation where Carroll doesnt play and DJ, Richardson an Felton split the time so 2 of the 3 are playing at all times.
Let's calm down guys. I think it's just about as stupid as it gets how when we're losing:
we want to blow up the team and trade and trade and the team sucks and LB is a terrible coach and Felts sucks and we should've drafted Brook Lopez instead of DJ.
but when we win:
we praise everything LB has ever done, DJ was the best pick ever, Felts is great, Emeka plays with heart, etc.
Let's stop being hypocrites and pick a side in the argument, vacillation is NOT good:rolleyes:
This is SO true - and what I was alluding to during the week.
It's going to be funny tonight when Felts has an almost triple double and DJ goes 2-13 with 5 turn overs.
davcbow
11-22-2008, 07:01 PM
This is SO true - and what I was alluding to during the week.
It's going to be funny tonight when Felts has an almost triple double and DJ goes 2-13 with 5 turn overs.
Don't hold your breath Big guy.....DJ could have a bad game yes but felts with a triple double? lol :cool:
SWedd523
11-22-2008, 09:04 PM
This is SO true - and what I was alluding to during the week.
It's going to be funny tonight when Felts has an almost triple double and DJ goes 2-13 with 5 turn overs.
EXACTLY
when DJ has another bad game, everyone will be back on his case saying he's a terrible shooter and shouldn't be starting. Hypocrites:p
spectre
11-22-2008, 09:35 PM
Don't hold your breath Big guy.....DJ could have a bad game yes but felts with a triple double? lol :cool:
He got pretty darn close:
14 pts/9 rebounds/7 steals/5 assists.
Stats don't trump a loss though.
BobcatsAllDay
11-22-2008, 09:38 PM
This is SO true - and what I was alluding to during the week.
It's going to be funny tonight when Felts has an almost triple double and DJ goes 2-13 with 5 turn overs.
Did you know something tonight? 14pts, 9rebs, 7stls, in the loss
davcbow
11-22-2008, 10:00 PM
He got pretty darn close:
14 pts/9 rebounds/7 steals/5 assists.
Stats don't trump a loss though.
I'll give ya that one for sure, Felts did have a good game, wish he and DJ could have good game every game. I wish JRich was back playing we may have won tonight......:cool:
Dead_Real
11-22-2008, 10:01 PM
He got pretty darn close:
14 pts/9 rebounds/7 steals/5 assists.
Stats don't trump a loss though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRqCrIJs29k
Just goes back to what I was speaking on a few days ago it pays off having TWO very good PG's just sucks we don't have inside scoring to compliment them.
He got pretty darn close:
14 pts/9 rebounds/7 steals/5 assists.
Stats don't trump a loss though.
His defense was really, really good tonight and he attacked the rim in the 1st half really well.
Did you know something tonight? 14pts, 9rebs, 7stls, in the loss
Murphy's Law.
BobcatsAllDay
11-22-2008, 10:33 PM
Just goes back to what I was speaking on a few days ago it pays off having TWO very good PG's just sucks we don't have inside scoring to compliment them.
You can stand atop TWC Arena and say that again.
dav7z
11-23-2008, 03:00 PM
This will be debated til we either trade Felton or all year depending who has a good or bad game???????
SWedd523
11-23-2008, 03:37 PM
This will be debated til we either trade Felton or all year depending who has a good or bad game???????
Sure will, sadly..
"Summer Soldiers and Sunshine Patriots" is, I believe, how the saying goes
ziggy
11-24-2008, 10:33 PM
After tonight's game, I'm sold. DJ may not be the next Chris Paul, but he was really Paul-ish tonight against the Sixers.
i agree, he was sick tonight. espn speculated that Felton might be the one traded and not GW with the improvement of DJ. I am sold, he was a stud tonight. Looks like a great pick so far.
countryboi
11-24-2008, 10:45 PM
After tonight's game, I'm sold. DJ may not be the next Chris Paul, but he was really Paul-ish tonight against the Sixers.
I am with you i am sold....i think he is going to be very very good
bellringer21
11-24-2008, 11:14 PM
Lets not forget that Felton played really well today too.....but its hard to deny. DJ is someone we need to play alot and Felton should be the odd man out once Richardson comes back. Felton can still get 25 minutes a game...just make sure Felton, Richardson, and DJ rotate the 2 guard spots. Sorry Carroll.....and Ammo gets the minutes behind Wallace. This is the best rotation for us for the 1-3 spots.
Muttley
11-24-2008, 11:18 PM
Lets not forget that Felton played really well today too.....but its hard to deny. DJ is someone we need to play alot and Felton should be the odd man out once Richardson comes back. Felton can still get 25 minutes a game...just make sure Felton, Richardson, and DJ rotate the 2 guard spots. Sorry Carroll.....and Ammo gets the minutes behind Wallace. This is the best rotation for us for the 1-3 spots.
Exactly, we shouldn't go acting like we'd win this game without Raymond. But, it seems more inevitable that DJ will start at PG at some point in the future with Raymond backing him up. If we can hang on to the both of them and yet improve our team some other way (without giving up Gerald) then we gotta try to do that. However, if Larry feels like many of us that DJ is the future of the 1-guard in Charlotte, and that he can improve the team by moving Raymond, then that's what he's got to make happen. I just hope he can get rid of May in the process.
ohara831
11-24-2008, 11:31 PM
DJ will eventually be our star PG. I'm only for trading Ray IF we get a quality PF and a good PG to back up DJ. Would have to include either Ammo or Carroll in any such deal to get back what we want. But I think everyone would agree that DJ is well ahead of the learning curve and people wont fear the worst if he took over as the full time starting PG.
i agree that dj might be a special pg. but keeping in mind he is a rookie, he made at least 3 turnovers down the stretch, that could cost us. despite all the bitchin from us the last week or so, we have been in most every game this season. trading felton now, may not be a good idea. we should accept no playoffs this year and use this year to let dj learn from felton, not throw him in the fire 12 games into the season. if we can get a good big then trade felton, but i still think he has alot of value to this team.
G-Force for MVP
11-24-2008, 11:38 PM
ill go with dj right now but dont let felton get off the team depth is key you dont want a jeff mcinss again do you?
bellringer21
11-24-2008, 11:57 PM
Exactly, we shouldn't go acting like we'd win this game without Raymond. But, it seems more inevitable that DJ will start at PG at some point in the future with Raymond backing him up. If we can hang on to the both of them and yet improve our team some other way (without giving up Gerald) then we gotta try to do that. However, if Larry feels like many of us that DJ is the future of the 1-guard in Charlotte, and that he can improve the team by moving Raymond, then that's what he's got to make happen. I just hope he can get rid of May in the process.
Am I the only one who can see DJ-1, Felton-2, Rich-3 Wallace-4 and EO-5? Its kinda a small lineup, but this would create many difficult match-ups for the opposing teams.....and this kinda fills our hole at the C/PF spot......
BobcatsAllDay
11-25-2008, 12:09 AM
Am I the only one who can see DJ-1, Felton-2, Rich-3 Wallace-4 and EO-5? Its kinda a small lineup, but this would create many difficult match-ups for the opposing teams.....and this kinda fills our hole at the C/PF spot......
For Don Nelson maybe, we will get killed on the boards and Larry will not play fast enough for that lineup to be effective. I can see spots where that lineup could cause a little trouble.
bellringer21
11-25-2008, 12:33 AM
For Don Nelson maybe, we will get killed on the boards and Larry will not play fast enough for that lineup to be effective. I can see spots where that lineup could cause a little trouble.
You're right....I thought Wallace was bigger than 6'7"....he plays bigger than that but it would be hard for him to guard the likes of Brand, Bosh, etc.
Wallace at the 4 again? Don't we all know what that's gonna lead to?
Dead_Real
11-25-2008, 02:43 AM
DJ14 and Raymond are BOTH beasting lately who starts is the least of my worries it's a very good problem to have to be honest. I've been impressed with both guys lately especially with DJ looking to set up his teammates more and Ray looking to grab more rebounds. Hopefully they'll both keep it up and it will show in the win column as the year goes on.
BTW it's a good chance Coach brown goes with BellRingers suggested line up when J-Swish returns.
Ampsportsduo
11-25-2008, 03:03 AM
I'm not sure why the urgency to move Raymond. DJ is still a rookie and the team has no backup PG beyond those two right now. While he's been running hot, he's hardly been playing defensive stalwarts.
All rookies typically hit a wall in the second half of the season, especially PGs. This team needs Felton as much as DJ right now. That may change in the years to come, but in the short term Raymond's the only person on the roster capable of being a backup at both guard positions for any length of time. In fact, Ray has the ability to start at PG in this league for several teams.
Raymond's cap number is reasonable and unless this team can get a starting caliber PF in return or unload either Nazr or Carroll's contract, the trade will likely end in this team not getting equal return.
bellringer21
11-25-2008, 11:22 AM
I'm not sure why the urgency to move Raymond. DJ is still a rookie and the team has no backup PG beyond those two right now. While he's been running hot, he's hardly been playing defensive stalwarts.
All rookies typically hit a wall in the second half of the season, especially PGs. This team needs Felton as much as DJ right now. That may change in the years to come, but in the short term Raymond's the only person on the roster capable of being a backup at both guard positions for any length of time. In fact, Ray has the ability to start at PG in this league for several teams.
Raymond's cap number is reasonable and unless this team can get a starting caliber PF in return or unload either Nazr or Carroll's contract, the trade will likely end in this team not getting equal return.
I don't think it would be a good idea to trade Felton....his value isn't that high and we wouldn't get a good return. The latest rumor of Kaman for J-Rich is a good deal for us (and the Clippers) because we lack a big man and DJ's development has been quick. DJ will have a rough stretch here and there (he is a rookie) so Felton will be there to pick up the slack. That said, I think its clear that DJ should be the PG now and in the foreseeable future.
playoffs...PLAYOFFS?
11-25-2008, 11:23 AM
I don't think it would be a good idea to trade Felton....his value isn't that high and we wouldn't get a good return. The latest rumor of Kaman for J-Rich is a good deal for us (and the Clippers) because we lack a big man and DJ's development has been quick. DJ will have a rough stretch here and there (he is a rookie) so Felton will be there to pick up the slack. That said, I think its clear that DJ should be the PG now and in the foreseeable future.
?? .. someone else made a point about DJ losing steam after halfway through the season.. you can't be too sure about DJ being a started for the remainder of the season
RF should not be traded now or the next season..but im sure someone will offer him a better contract and we wont match it
bellringer21
11-25-2008, 03:48 PM
Apparently Richardson might come back Wednesday.....and DJ will move back to the bench. Does that bother anyone else? Felton is good too, but DJ has shown he should be getting alot of minutes. I do expect to see the lineup of DJ, Felton, J-Rich, Wallace, Okafor at some point when J-Rich comes back. Any thoughts?
bellringer21
11-25-2008, 04:03 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=10730
Article on how well DJ has been playing and how Felton has done a great job helping him instead of resisting change. Its interesting to see Felton say he can guard the 2's and that he wants to do anything to play....which is implying that he sees the writing on the wall.
spectre
11-25-2008, 04:37 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=10730
Article on how well DJ has been playing and how Felton has done a great job helping him instead of resisting change. Its interesting to see Felton say he can guard the 2's and that he wants to do anything to play....which is implying that he sees the writing on the wall.
Or it could mean that Felts...being the quality individual that he is...will do anything to help his mates win.
bellringer21
11-25-2008, 04:49 PM
Or it could mean that Felts...being the quality individual that he is...will do anything to help his mates win.
He has been a professional in regards to DJ....he could have been a real jerk about it but clearly is helping DJ. But Felton does see that his spot in the future for this team is shooting guard.....
Or it could mean that Felts...being the quality individual that he is...will do anything to help his mates win.
Can't be true - there is no conspiracy theory involved in that logic at all.
playoffs...PLAYOFFS?
11-25-2008, 07:30 PM
atrocious posts..give felton some credit, he's been a quality team player at least since his days at UNC.
he was the only one not to publicly berate his coach Doherty - this should exemplify the type of person he is..moreover he played in college alongside bigger names - mays/mccants and even marvin williams...he never seemed intimidated by this or someone else taking over the spotlight
anyone as smart as he is knows that if you put your team before yourself, you will reap rewards. whether as a bobcat next year or with a better contract with another team.
dnbman
11-25-2008, 07:41 PM
Can't be true - there is no conspiracy theory involved in that logic at all.
I concur. Need more gnomes.
Ghost Kat
11-28-2008, 03:56 AM
I doubt DJ will keep up his recent play, But he is showing good signs that he was a good pick after all. Felton is no shooting guard. I don't know how this will turn out. If Felton was a better shooter and the big's would stop getting moving screen fouls the pick and roll game could be deadly. Morrison is a great spot up and moving shooter. DJ and Ray are both quick guards , they get in the lane pretty easy. The O doesn't run as well as it should, Something or someone needs to change.
It would help if the guards let the "bigs" get set so they'd stop getting the moving screen fouls...Ray and DJ have both been guilty of this and I think even LB has said something along the same lines...I chalk it up to the team trying to play LB ball and still being "tight" and affraid to make mistakes:g:
It would help if the guards let the "bigs" get set so they'd stop getting the moving screen fouls...Ray and DJ have both been guilty of this and I think even LB has said something along the same lines...I chalk it up to the team trying to play LB ball and still being "tight" and affraid to make mistakes:g:
How come Twiggy never gets called for an offensive when he sets a screen then? Why is it only ever EO50 or Nazzy?
While Twiggy may have many short comings, he could teach the other bigs a thing or two when it comes to how to set a good, strong, wide screen and time your roll.
It's just a pity the only thing Twiggy can catch is a cold and never a pass!!
spectre
11-28-2008, 04:58 PM
Excellent point. I remember a game or two back being impressed with Twiggy's skill at setting high screens.
LB is supposedly a perfectionist at setting screens and will spend a lot of time making sure one does it just right. Tho I'm sure at time our guards could be just a little more patient, it's not just the screen they have to worry about; it's the bigs' man as well coming to "crowd" the play.
Ghost Kat
11-28-2008, 06:12 PM
Both good points, The guards do need to let the bigs get set. They might be to fast for their own good. But this happens way to often. Hollins does do a great job of locking into postion, Not sliding his leg or hip out to clip the other guard. But since they can't seem to get set that hurts a pick and roll, pick and pop.. pick and anything. And it's not like we can toss it down to the big's and let them work.
bellringer21
11-28-2008, 11:32 PM
Looks like I was correct with the small lineup....Felton, DJ, J-Rich, Wallace and Okafor was the lineup late in the 4th and overtime. Felton had a really nice game and it looks like DJ is pushing him to play really well. DJ had a bad shooting game, but otherwise did really well with big shots and clutch FT's at the end. Only 2 TO in 36 minutes for DJ. I'm excited to see DJ continue to develop and see how well we can play/win with J-Rich back. I could see a playoff push....only 2.5 games back of New Jersey/Miami for the 8th seed. Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, Toronto, Orlando, and Atlanta gives the East 6 teams. I think we will be fighting the 76ers, Nets, and Heat for the 7th/8th seed. We can do it.
DanielWheeler
11-28-2008, 11:39 PM
After seeing how Felton has played alongside with Augustin, I think the answer is both. Augustin at PG and Felton at SG with Richardson sliding to SF. Wallace can net the Bobcats a legit post player and with that post player/Okafor/Richardson/Felton/Augustin they can have a pretty damn solid team on the court.
dnbman
11-29-2008, 08:35 AM
Felton had a really nice game and it looks like DJ is pushing him to play really well.
That was the thinking by a lot of people after we drafted Augustine, but I'm not seeing it. He's not looking over his shoulder; he's playing alongside Augustine. Felton is just doing a smarter version of what he did last year. If anything, Augustine opens things up for everyone, including Felton. They certainly seem to be playing well off of each other, which is great.
The implication of Augustine pushing him suggests he wasn't pushing himself in previous years, which I don't think is true. I think Felton is just more experienced and better coached this season. When he starts internalizing Brown's thoughts, he'll start to think less about the game and make more shots. I think he would have done this with or without Augustine. He has improved in every statistical category except, ironically, assists. He's shooting 42% despite a handful of atrocious games. When he gets comfortable, that shooting should go up to 44%.
Keetch
11-29-2008, 08:44 AM
This probably isn't true, but I couldn't help thinking it.
As tough as it appears to be to play PG for Larry Brown, it's probably a big relief to Felton to shift to SG and let DJ bring the ball up (with LB in his ear). I bet he's much happier running around at SG now than he ever was last year. It's kind of like being served instead of being the server.
dnbman
11-29-2008, 09:08 AM
This probably isn't true, but I couldn't help thinking it.
As tough as it appears to be to play PG for Larry Brown, it's probably a big relief to Felton to shift to SG and let DJ bring the ball up (with LB in his ear). I bet he's much happier running around at SG now than he ever was last year. It's kind of like being served instead of being the server.
But, do you think it's a temporary relief? Do you think Felton wants to be a sg, or do you just think he doesn't want all the stress that comes from being a Brown pg?
Also, where do you see this eventually leading? Is Felton destined to be a combo-guard? If so, do we pay him to stick around and be the third guard?
coordinator0
11-29-2008, 09:19 AM
But, do you think it's a temporary relief? Do you think Felton wants to be a sg, or do you just think he doesn't want all the stress that comes from being a Brown pg?
Also, where do you see this eventually leading? Is Felton destined to be a combo-guard? If so, do we pay him to stick around and be the third guard?
If we could get him at a good price, I would love for Felton to stay around. There's a good possibility of that too because it's close to home for him. With Felton playing minutes at the 1 and the 2, possibly aquiring another SG if we move Wallace, and put J-Rich at the 3, we would have a pretty formidible backcourt. Although it's not ideal to have a top 5 pick come off the bench (we could possibly have two in Ammo and Felts), the team has got to work with it.
spectre
11-29-2008, 09:23 AM
You guys can't really think that LB is easier on Felton just because DJ brings it across the time line do you? Really, what's the difference between the two when they're both on the court? It's not like one's deferring the shot...both these guys like to chuck it up.
dnbman
11-29-2008, 09:49 AM
both these guys like to chuck it up.
That's what's funny to me. They seem like more similar players than a lot of people want to admit. DJ just seems more offensively minded and Raymond seems more defensively minded.
Neither is a SG...that's for sure...:biggrin:
SWedd523
11-29-2008, 10:52 AM
Just because Felton is out there in the other guard spot doesn't mean he's a SG. The cats are running more of a 2PG setup than a PG/SG. Felton isn't great as a real SG, but if he's out there running with DJ and they're both at the point then we have a very solid guard setup
I agree with JRich hurt that he was the best talent to move into that position...no question that Ray and DJ are a better combo than Ray and McInis...!
Ampsportsduo
11-30-2008, 03:35 AM
Ray's drop in assists can be attributed to the team's pace of play (which had been historically low until recently) as well as DJ getting some.
playoffs...PLAYOFFS?
12-04-2008, 11:52 AM
Here are some good news about DJ...he's getting some recognition from ESPN on the Top 10 rookies
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Rookies-081202
"But Augustin takes a quarter of his shots near the rim and finishes over 50 percent of them, helping him to establish a better than 2-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio."
this is exactly what we need... while I'm still for RF, i have to appreciate DJs contributions so far, hopefully he can keep it up!
bellringer21
02-19-2009, 07:56 PM
Figured I'd bump this thread.....
While Felton has proved he is valuable, I still think DJ should be starting next year....he has shown he can do it and he will help the team more than Felton with his shooting and distrubuting. Anyone think Felton could be a starting shooting guard?
I thought we should have traded Felton for some value before the offseason....but here we are. I'm for DJ starting next year and Felton at the 2 with Bell the back-up guard and Felton moving to the PG when DJ isn't on the floor....otherwise we are wasting talent on the bench.
davcbow
02-19-2009, 08:12 PM
Im glad we didnt do any more trades. LB said a while back give him 3 good PG's and 3 good centers and we can compete with any team in the NBA. Well I like our 3 PG's and really think we would be dumb to let them go.... As is we are set for next season, we may need to do a trade for a good center or sign a good free agent but we are set.... It would be a mistake to ruin our team chemistry with some stupid trade.... :cool:
polarcat
02-19-2009, 08:35 PM
Im glad we didnt do any more trades. LB said a while back give him 3 good PG's and 3 good centers and we can compete with any team in the NBA. Well I like our 3 PG's and really think we would be dumb to let them go.... As is we are set for next season, we may need to do a trade for a good center or sign a good free agent but we are set.... It would be a mistake to ruin our team chemistry with some stupid trade.... :cool:
i'm actually happy with our center rotation (sans nazr). okafor is fine at center and diop is a good bench guy though some of his airballs and ridiculously short ranged misses are annoying. i wouldn't be opposed to bringing either felton or raja off the bench and starting dj. they had a stat on the other night that showed dj's ppg were around 20ppg when he started and somewhere near 11ppg when he was used off the bench.
Ghost Kat
02-20-2009, 04:29 AM
This has to be the longest debate in Bobcats history.
Next would be How Fat is Sean May :biggrin:
playoffs...PLAYOFFS?
02-20-2009, 09:04 AM
This has to be the longest debate in Bobcats history.
Next would be How Fat is Sean May :biggrin:
it is ..and neither side seems to change their way of thinking!
coordinator0
02-20-2009, 09:24 AM
Given the make-up of our starters that aren't at the PG position:
SG: Bell
SF: Wallace
PF: Diaw
C: Okafor
I would say that our team needs more of a scorer at the PG position. I know this has probably been said 1 mil. times over, but I think it'd be the right move to start D.J. and bring Felton off the bench.
That would make our second unit look like this:
PG: Felton
SG: Martin?
SF: Radmanovic
PF: Howard
C: Diop
Not too shabby IMO, but Alexi really needs to develop into a scorer at the PF. That way our bench would be pretty solid, especially in the "bigs" department.
So, I say start Augustine and bring Felts off the bench, but still give him big minutes.
110oldeast
02-20-2009, 10:09 AM
The flipside is that with Felton in the lineup, the team is above average defensively at every single position. Furthermore, Augustin's scoring punch of the bench is a great benefit. That said, the reality is that these discussions will occur as long as they both on the roster and most folks have their minds 85% of the way or more made up.
Given the make-up of our starters that aren't at the PG position:
SG: Bell
SF: Wallace
PF: Diaw
C: Okafor
I would say that our team needs more of a scorer at the PG position. I know this has probably been said 1 mil. times over, but I think it'd be the right move to start D.J. and bring Felton off the bench.
That would make our second unit look like this:
PG: Felton
SG: Martin?
SF: Radmanovic
PF: Howard
C: Diop
Not too shabby IMO, but Alexi really needs to develop into a scorer at the PF. That way our bench would be pretty solid, especially in the "bigs" department.
So, I say start Augustine and bring Felts off the bench, but still give him big minutes.
The last two posts epitomize the entire debate...there is no right answer...but we have a good problem for once
Ghost Kat
02-21-2009, 02:01 AM
I wish we could smash them both into one player. One contract....:g:
I wish we could smash them both into one player. One contract....:g:
That would be C3P...and I remember when we did not trade up for that option...:hypo:
That would be C3P...and I remember when we did not trade up for that option...:hypo:
ZINNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG!!
The 31
02-21-2009, 07:53 PM
Here are some good news about DJ...he's getting some recognition from ESPN on the Top 10 rookies
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Rookies-081202
"But Augustin takes a quarter of his shots near the rim and finishes over 50 percent of them, helping him to establish a better than 2-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio."
this is exactly what we need... while I'm still for RF, i have to appreciate DJs contributions so far, hopefully he can keep it up!
Great to see D finally getting some attention.
Stu_Discus
02-22-2009, 05:42 PM
DJ is the future for sure, the very near future...IMHO...
Dude is sooooo smoth with the ball and has never really looked "out of control to me...He belongs @ this level and he has proven it...I see him as being top 5 PG or better in the coming years...
etothet
02-23-2009, 11:44 AM
DJ shows flashes of brilliance but I would not say he is the future. DJ and Ray have too many similarities. One is they both like to shoot. Ray is only 24 or 25. He has an NBA body which is evident by his durability and ability to guard most shooting guards. He rebounds well for a pg and is averaging almost 2 steals per game. His fg percentage sucks but I think you're going to see that get better under the guidance of LB. I think recently that DJ has not shot the ball well, but I think he is a better shooter than Raymond. However, I think Ray currently runs the offense better and plays better defense. Ray is ranked 11th in the league in assists and 11th in steals. I think Raymond has an upside also. I would be slow to say that DJ is the future point guard for the Charlotte Bobcats. DJ can definitely play but I am concerned about his durability and his defensive skills. I would say that I think the FO blew it by not drafting Lopez at the number 9 position and still probably could have gotten Mario Chalmers as their 2nd first round pick. You've then got a big and a point guard. Mario is a bigger and more durable guard than DJ. I personally like all the bobcat players and I would hope that this point guard debate soon ends because it all will be decided on the court or utimately by the FO.
SWedd523
02-23-2009, 06:58 PM
DJ shows flashes of brilliance but I would not say he is the future. DJ and Ray have too many similarities. One is they both like to shoot. Ray is only 24 or 25. He has an NBA body which is evident by his durability and ability to guard most shooting guards. He rebounds well for a pg and is averaging almost 2 steals per game. His fg percentage sucks but I think you're going to see that get better under the guidance of LB. I think recently that DJ has not shot the ball well, but I think he is a better shooter than Raymond. However, I think Ray currently runs the offense better and plays better defense. Ray is ranked 11th in the league in assists and 11th in steals. I think Raymond has an upside also. I would be slow to say that DJ is the future point guard for the Charlotte Bobcats. DJ can definitely play but I am concerned about his durability and his defensive skills. I would say that I think the FO blew it by not drafting Lopez at the number 9 position and still probably could have gotten Mario Chalmers as their 2nd first round pick. You've then got a big and a point guard. Mario is a bigger and more durable guard than DJ. I personally like all the bobcat players and I would hope that this point guard debate soon ends because it all will be decided on the court or utimately by the FO.
Okay well first off, I'm one of the biggest Felton Homers you'll see. But I think DJ would be fine in a more uptempo system where he can't be punished as much on defense and he's still only a rookie so he arguably has more room to grow than Ray does. DJ isn't necessarily the prototypical LB point guard that Felts is but LB probably won't be around long enough to make that much of a difference.
DJ will also be fine with size around him. If Ajinca learns that we live in a surplus society and that eating more is fine, then he'll be a great piece next to DJ. He would also benefit from having a tough, beefy 2guard next to him that could handle some of the workload (hello Harden). Give him time to learn under the tutelage of Felton and LB and he'll be just fine in the future.
On to Brook Lopez. I'm gonna have to say no to that one. Brook was not what we needed. If we were going to bring him in then we wouldn't have signed Oak to that big of a contract (I'd rather have Mek). Ajinca still has worlds of potential and I have faith that he will show how good he can be in the near future. We had a good draft. All we need to do is have another good one this year and hopefully we can have a good young core of talent to develop
Ghost Kat
02-23-2009, 08:04 PM
Okay well first off, I'm one of the biggest Felton Homers you'll see. But I think DJ would be fine in a more uptempo system where he can't be punished as much on defense and he's still only a rookie so he arguably has more room to grow than Ray does. DJ isn't necessarily the prototypical LB point guard that Felts is but LB probably won't be around long enough to make that much of a difference.
DJ will also be fine with size around him. If Ajinca learns that we live in a surplus society and that eating more is fine, then he'll be a great piece next to DJ. He would also benefit from having a tough, beefy 2guard next to him that could handle some of the workload (hello Harden). Give him time to learn under the tutelage of Felton and LB and he'll be just fine in the future.
On to Brook Lopez. I'm gonna have to say no to that one. Brook was not what we needed. If we were going to bring him in then we wouldn't have signed Oak to that big of a contract (I'd rather have Mek). Ajinca still has worlds of potential and I have faith that he will show how good he can be in the near future. We had a good draft. All we need to do is have another good one this year and hopefully we can have a good young core of talent to develop
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o179/bucktown1999/cosign.gif
playoffs...PLAYOFFS?
02-24-2009, 10:34 PM
DJ shows flashes of brilliance but I would not say he is the future. DJ and Ray have too many similarities. One is they both like to shoot. Ray is only 24 or 25. He has an NBA body which is evident by his durability and ability to guard most shooting guards. He rebounds well for a pg and is averaging almost 2 steals per game. His fg percentage sucks but I think you're going to see that get better under the guidance of LB. I think recently that DJ has not shot the ball well, but I think he is a better shooter than Raymond. However, I think Ray currently runs the offense better and plays better defense. Ray is ranked 11th in the league in assists and 11th in steals. I think Raymond has an upside also. I would be slow to say that DJ is the future point guard for the Charlotte Bobcats. DJ can definitely play but I am concerned about his durability and his defensive skills. I would say that I think the FO blew it by not drafting Lopez at the number 9 position and still probably could have gotten Mario Chalmers as their 2nd first round pick. You've then got a big and a point guard. Mario is a bigger and more durable guard than DJ. I personally like all the bobcat players and I would hope that this point guard debate soon ends because it all will be decided on the court or utimately by the FO.
i agree with everything you said until you got to the lopez/chamelrs part
but good analysis on the strenghts/weakeness of both DJ/RF
either way...assuming we get RF a short term (3 year) contract at a reasonable price...i think we are in a great position having two quality starting PGs competing against each other..and both having enough value that we could get a good trade eventually for either one
i like the situation fine..it would be nice to have another PG with size..and i expect the FO to bring one in during the offseason..
i dont see any reason why rush in picking if DJ or RF should start or stay
BETCATS
02-25-2009, 03:48 PM
why cant we have both, and exploit it just like Dallas did when they had Jason Terry/Devin Harris? They made the finals with that point guard duo, if we keep them together i'm not promising finals, but playoffs are obtainable.
etothet
02-25-2009, 07:04 PM
Good thought.
etothet
02-25-2009, 07:08 PM
i agree with everything you said until you got to the lopez/chamelrs part
but good analysis on the strenghts/weakeness of both DJ/RF
either way...assuming we get RF a short term (3 year) contract at a reasonable price...i think we are in a great position having two quality starting PGs competing against each other..and both having enough value that we could get a good trade eventually for either one
i like the situation fine..it would be nice to have another PG with size..and i expect the FO to bring one in during the offseason..
i dont see any reason why rush in picking if DJ or RF should start or stay
I feel you. Explain why you think we should not have take Lopez and Chalmers?
I feel you. Explain why you think we should not have take Lopez and Chalmers?
Because at the time Larry wanted Mek and thought he could get a big later in the draft. It has nothing to do with shoulds, it has to do with Rod was having his balls tiwsted until he picked DJ. And Lopez is a lesser (at the moment) Okafor. Why have 2?
SWedd523
02-25-2009, 07:45 PM
Because at the time Larry wanted Mek and thought he could get a big later in the draft. It has nothing to do with shoulds, it has to do with Rod was having his balls tiwsted until he picked DJ. And Lopez is a lesser (at the moment) Okafor. Why have 2?
It was as simple as either Mek or Lopez. They signed Mek before the draft, so it would be completely redundant to bring in Lopez.
etothet
02-26-2009, 10:20 AM
Because at the time Larry wanted Mek and thought he could get a big later in the draft. It has nothing to do with shoulds, it has to do with Rod was having his balls tiwsted until he picked DJ. And Lopez is a lesser (at the moment) Okafor. Why have 2?[/QUOTE
I follow you clearly.
spectre
02-26-2009, 10:34 AM
It was as simple as either Mek or Lopez. They signed Mek before the draft, so it would be completely redundant to bring in Lopez.
Okafor, Bobcats officially sign off on 6-year, $72 million deal (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3509028)
No, they signed Mek on July 31st, which was after the draft. I do agree with the opinion that right before the draft there was debate on whether we were going to re-sign Mek. IMO Jordan was leaning towards not...but LB talked him out of it.
Either way, when we took DJ it certainly gave Mek more bargaining power.
I also disagree with the "why have two" thought...why not have two? Look what we have invested in Diop & Nazr. Wouldn't it be nice to be paying a rookie scale contract for someone who'd contribute more?
Of course we needed another PG as well, so both were a choice based on need.
davcbow
02-26-2009, 11:48 AM
We will be a lottery team this year once again and we are gonna luck out and get the first pick in the draft so what will we do with it? :cool:
ohara831
02-26-2009, 01:39 PM
We will be a lottery team this year once again and we are gonna luck out and get the first pick in the draft so what will we do with it? :cool:
If we had the 1st pick, even tho we need a SG and Harden would be there, there is no way you pass on Blake Griffin. Grab the big PF and be very happy with him. Find another way to get a SG. But you dont pass on Griffin. That said, if we picked 3rd and had a shot at Harden, that would be a great consolation prize.
davcbow
02-26-2009, 06:09 PM
If we had the 1st pick, even tho we need a SG and Harden would be there, there is no way you pass on Blake Griffin. Grab the big PF and be very happy with him. Find another way to get a SG. But you dont pass on Griffin. That said, if we picked 3rd and had a shot at Harden, that would be a great consolation prize.
That would be awesome wouldnt it?
Ghost Kat
02-27-2009, 02:54 AM
Wouldn't that pick go to the Nuggets???
Wouldn't that pick go to the Nuggets???
Only if our pick is outside the lottery do the Nuggets get it.
Ghost Kat
02-27-2009, 12:47 PM
Only if our pick is outside the lottery do the Nuggets get it.
So from 12 on down the Nuggets get the pick but if it's higher we keep it?
This isn't a strong draft this year, I'd rather them get it and wait to see who comes out next year.
spectre
02-27-2009, 01:59 PM
So from 12 on down the Nuggets get the pick but if it's higher we keep it?
This isn't a strong draft this year, I'd rather them get it and wait to see who comes out next year.
Denver will get Charlotte's first-round pick next season if the Bobcats make the playoffs. If they don't, Charlotte keeps it. The pick would then be protected by a sliding scale, where Charlotte would retain it if it's in the top 12 in 2010, top 10 in 2011, top eight in 2012 and top three in 2013. Charlotte would have no protection for the pick in 2014.
So, we keep the pick if it's between:
2009...1-14
2010...1-12
2011...1-10
2012...1-8
2013...1-3
2014...Denver's regardless
spectre
03-04-2009, 03:10 PM
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=25301
Ed (MD): who is the most under-rated player in the NBA? Recent reports may suggest shane battier. Who else is on your list?
http://a.espncdn.com/i/sn2.gif David Thorpe: Joakim Noah. Felton is coming along.
ohara831
03-04-2009, 03:53 PM
So, we keep the pick if it's between:
2009...1-14
2010...1-12
2011...1-10
2012...1-8
2013...1-3
2014...Denver's regardless
Given that Griffin and Rubio are really the only 2 who seem to have bona fide Star Potential, (maybe Harden) this would be the yr to let Denver have that pick. I dont see great stuff in the #10 - #14 range that would make me say "Rats, I wish we didn't make the Playoffs this season". Nice stuff to add to our bench, but nothing to replace any current starter by any means. And we will have (2) 2nd rounders. I'll be happy to make the Playoffs and let Denver have the pick this year. Maybe LB will have taught Alexis something to allow him to be much more of an impact next season - it will be like we just drafted him then.
bellringer21
03-04-2009, 04:17 PM
Does anyone see us maybe getting Ben Gordon for Felton? Sign and trade?
I understand Chicago probably wouldn't want Felton.....but I know Gordon would look nice next to DJ to start each game......
arh1109
03-04-2009, 04:44 PM
I don't see us trading felton and pairing augustine w/ another sg unless its a playmaker able to guard the 2 spot effectively. maybe like baron davis or something. Dj just isn't far along enough in his playmaking and is more effective as a sg. Think of him like having iverson on your team. You need a point guard who can guard the 2 spot. Of course felton is playing out of his mind so i don't see this happening unless we play terrible here on out.
110oldeast
03-04-2009, 06:19 PM
spectre,
That's really interesting coming from Thorpe. I definitely felt that to be the case for this team (as far as being underrated), but have avoided saying it as it is polarizing. For him to call him one of the most underrated in the league is a great compliment.
As for trading Felton for Gordon, I don't think a DJ/Gordon combo is ideal defensively. Felton is small, but his heart, strength and arm length allow him to play bigger than he defensively to an extent for limited amounts of time. The DJ/Gordon lineup would be very vulnerable to post ups by guards and require a lot of double teaming.
I also agree that DJ would be well served playing beside a Brandon Roy type 2g who has size and playmaking ability. I think that his offense often benefits when playing alongside Felton b/c he has another person to playmake beside and for him. His spot up shooting ability is really showcased when he has someone driving and kicking it out to him.
I'm strating to think ESPN is making a reason to put us on tv soon
but as far as Ben Gordon, or anyone like him, no thanks. What we have with DJ, Ray, and Raja is what we need, shooting and defense mixed up well together, and Ray and DJ are both improving. If only DJ was 3 inches taller and was the next Ben Gordon :p
Felton is small, but his heart, strength and arm length allow him to play bigger than he defensively to an extent for limited amounts of time.
DJ:
Wingspan: 6'3.5"
Standing reach: 7'10.5"
Felton:
Wingspan: 6'4.25"
Standing reach: 8'2"
etothet
03-05-2009, 10:18 AM
Does anyone see us maybe getting Ben Gordon for Felton? Sign and trade?
I understand Chicago probably wouldn't want Felton.....but I know Gordon would look nice next to DJ to start each game......
The chemistry of this current team seems to be good. The way Raymond is playing now, it would take someone other than Ben Gordon to trade him. Larry Brown has made him a much better point guard. I say why not keep both Ray and DJ. At the season's end it maybe DJ plus that you trade for a lights out shooter with size and defense ability. And of course it could be Ray traded, however the saga continues.
spectre
03-05-2009, 10:23 AM
DJ:
Wingspan: 6'3.5"
Standing reach: 7'10.5"
Felton:
Wingspan: 6'4.25"
Standing reach: 8'2"
I think it's strength and build more than those 2; it's hard for a lot of guys to "push" him out of his position.
I think it's strength and build more than those 2; it's hard for a lot of guys to "push" him out of his position.
Totally. Felts is a rock and doesn't give up position in the post very easily at all.
I was more responding to the arm length thing.
spectre
03-05-2009, 10:36 AM
Totally. Felts is a rock and doesn't give up position in the post very easily at all.
I was more responding to the arm length thing.
Ah...no wonder I was getting confused! Totally forgot this was a "vs" thread. I bumped it yesterday for the "underated" thing from the ESPN guy solely because it was the latest thread that had Felton in the title! :p
etothet
03-05-2009, 11:12 AM
Ah...no wonder I was getting confused! Totally forgot this was a "vs" thread. I bumped it yesterday for the "underated" thing from the ESPN guy solely because it was the latest thread that had Felton in the title! :p
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/PG
Look at Raymond's rank among point guards last week. Don't know how they rank but just an interesting tidbit of news.
110oldeast
03-05-2009, 11:39 AM
Just for clarification, are you saying the 3.5 inch difference in standing reach isn't significant? I would think so. 3.5 inches in basketball is a LOT. When you are talking about contesting shots, it certainly is relevant.
However, I was saying that the combination of the 3 (heart, length, and strength) allow him to play bigger than he is for amounts of time and defend players he has no business defending. I wasn't saying he had Lexy's arms. ;-)
I wasn't engaging in the "vs" thing. I was simply making the point that a DJ/Ray backcourt can work defensively for stints more than a DJ/Ben could as a primary lineup as bellringer was suggesting.
DJ:
Wingspan: 6'3.5"
Standing reach: 7'10.5"
Felton:
Wingspan: 6'4.25"
Standing reach: 8'2"
110oldeast
03-05-2009, 08:00 PM
spectre,
In response to Thorpe's comment about Felton "coming along," in the 38 games (19-19) since the Raja/Boris trade his averages look as follows:
14.3 pts
7.4 assists
2.5 a/t ratio
4.2 rebounds
1.7 steals
41% fg
33% 3 pt fg
85% ft
That's definitely solid when you mix in intangibles. Here's to a strong finish and Thorpe being able make his statement unequivocal.
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