View Full Version : Moves have to be made
dav7z
10-24-2008, 02:10 PM
After last nights game it's got to be clear moves have to be made.
Im not talking stupid moves like the drafting over the last four years.
1st Ever one should be one the trading block. No body has lived up to thair billing.
Any body whos watched any NBA games can tell we have way too many of the same player. Swish, Wallace, Carroll, Morrison. all the same player very little differance.
Augustine , The pick was as bad of a pick as i have ever seen. With ,Lopez, Randolph, Bayless all still on the board. None of us expected Augustine. Though a bad pick he could turn out servicable. Never showing hes any better or worse than Felton.
Mek peaked in college and we just resigned him to 72 milion . The guy can't catch a pass. And he lets point guards block him . I Doubt we could dump him on any one.
We need to start trying to dump contracts like Meks, Swish , Wallace. Felton, Morrison , May, Carroll, Nazz, Augustine , AA,.
After last nights game im ready to blow up this core and start over. I would give up any player on this team to be solid at all five positions.
http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/
Rodriguz, Frye, Outlaw. for Crash
Ghost Kat
10-24-2008, 02:43 PM
Can't say i agree 100%, I like the Augustine pick. He's truely a upgrade over Felton. Even in preseason DJ has play'd just as good or bad as Felton a 3rd yr. I honestly don't know why people wanted Lopez. He's slow, doesn't help offense or defense. He's just a big body, he have plenty of those types already ( Sean May ). Going into the draft DJ was thought to be a better PG then Bayless, Was drafted higher then Bayless, and fits into our system better then shoot first Bayless. I'm far more impressed so far by DJ abililty to run this team then i would be with Bayless. What people want is changes right now, I'm with everyone one on winning now. But DJ is a great future PG and Ajinca "might" actually turn into something so maybe this draft wasnt the bust that the Felton/May draft has been so far.
ammofan
10-24-2008, 02:44 PM
I would accept that trade for crash....
dnbman
10-24-2008, 05:42 PM
There's no panacea to our ills. Realistically, we're not trading our way out of the mess we are in, barring another absurd Memphis-esque trade. However, even then, we don't have a giant, dead weight salary like Kwame's to send out. Our only realistic option for a legit PF is to send out Wallace, which isn't going to net us an equivalent talent.
I think our best bet is to let these guys learn Brown's system, with Brown determining who can get it and who can't. We can then trade pieces for assets who will get it. If we're that bad, we'll have a lottery pick again, hopefully getting us the PF we need to be successful.
Obviously, I'd love to convert Morrison or Carroll into a starting quality PF. If we can make a move like that, we should do it. However, trading most of our other guys for a PF only creates a whole where they were, including Felton, as Augustine has not proven he's any better than Felton. (At least with both of them, we can play the odds on one of them figuring out Brown's system.)
I just don't see many realistic scenarios where we make a move and it improves us immediately without impairing our future. I'd rather play with what we have and make the necessary change later.
Also, as others have stated, we seem to be far more focused on playing Brown's way rather than winning, which is the only thing the last few coaches were focused on, even if it meant undermining the future of the team. Don't get me wrong; we should be focused on winning. However, we want to win a title, not just a pre-season game. As such, we should be playing the way that will win us a title, not just to win 39 games or make some other small improvement over last year just so we can say we weren't as bad as last year.
spectre
10-24-2008, 06:32 PM
Also, as others have stated, we seem to be far more focused on playing Brown's way rather than winning, which is the only thing the last few coaches were focused on, even if it meant undermining the future of the team. Don't get me wrong; we should be focused on winning. However, we want to win a title, not just a pre-season game. As such, we should be playing the way that will win us a title, not just to win 39 games or make some other small improvement over last year just so we can say we weren't as bad as last year.
Many might have said it, but nowhere near as well as you just did.
Bravo!
Jesus Christ...
It just never stops with some of you guys.
I don't think I've seen anyone post that does not agree we need a 4....frankly blowing up a young team does not appeal to me at all...I'd rather watch the season unfold and after 10-12 games I'll have a sense of who on the team can actually play for LB...and after 20 I think we'll all know (or have a fair sense) of the direction the season will take...Learning a new system is not easy and I've been pleased that the players are working hard to learn a new system from an actual coach...some of the players (most of us agree) are wasted space (McMay and Hollins come to mind) and at this point I doubt the absent owner will dump the McMay contract....frankly the Hollins signing still baffles me...with all my previous ramble my point is we already have a young team and I have confidence that LB can/will determine who in this group can play LB ball....
I was also pleased that LB talked MJ out of trading Crash before this time because I still think (and I'm not pushing a Crash trade) that if we end up having to trade for a 4 it will have to be Crash. At this point I'd still like to see what A. Brown will do since he'll have to start instead of McMay....and I'm still looking at other teams cuts....just my opinion but I'm still willing to be patient...but I feel I can be after the agony that was Vincent...
MattD
10-24-2008, 10:43 PM
Jesus Christ...
It just never stops with some of you guys.
seriously... its preseason... lets see what happens, let larry brown make his influence felt
TheBeagle
10-24-2008, 11:54 PM
There's no panacea to our ills. Realistically, we're not trading our way out of the mess we are in, barring another absurd Memphis-esque trade. However, even then, we don't have a giant, dead weight salary like Kwame's to send out. Our only realistic option for a legit PF is to send out Wallace, which isn't going to net us an equivalent talent.
I think our best bet is to let these guys learn Brown's system, with Brown determining who can get it and who can't. We can then trade pieces for assets who will get it. If we're that bad, we'll have a lottery pick again, hopefully getting us the PF we need to be successful.
Obviously, I'd love to convert Morrison or Carroll into a starting quality PF. If we can make a move like that, we should do it. However, trading most of our other guys for a PF only creates a whole where they were, including Felton, as Augustine has not proven he's any better than Felton. (At least with both of them, we can play the odds on one of them figuring out Brown's system.)
I just don't see many realistic scenarios where we make a move and it improves us immediately without impairing our future. I'd rather play with what we have and make the necessary change later.
Also, as others have stated, we seem to be far more focused on playing Brown's way rather than winning, which is the only thing the last few coaches were focused on, even if it meant undermining the future of the team. Don't get me wrong; we should be focused on winning. However, we want to win a title, not just a pre-season game. As such, we should be playing the way that will win us a title, not just to win 39 games or make some other small improvement over last year just so we can say we weren't as bad as last year. To echo spectre: excellent post! +1
110oldeast
10-25-2008, 12:28 AM
Jason Thompson, Mareese Speights, Anthony Randolph, and on and on were options for us to look at from the 4 spot, but we didn't (and no Augustin has not yet shown himself to be an upgrade over Felton other than the fact that he will be under the rookie scale for the next few years). I will agree that there is no use crying over spoiled milk, but at somepoint we need to address the frontcourt issue.
My problem is the Bobcats always talk about frontcourt DEFENSE, while failing to acknowledge that the greatest issue with our offense is poor FRONTCOURT OFFENSE. Your 4 and 5 guys can't just be out there for the dirty work if you are going to be a halfcourt oriented team.
Offensively, our frontcourt is very limited. That affects every other facet of the offense and its efficiency. Until the FO and whomever else realize this, we won't get over the hump. The PF position is not a fill in position in the NBA anymore like when Jordan played. It is THE marquee position on most teams and for us to keep glossing over it only delays our progress.
Agree...but we all agree that we need a 4...a point though...if we talk about that need as much as we do then I've got to assume every team in the league also knows we have that need! I have to think (and I really hope I'm right) that LB has grown some from the NY mess and he is keenly aware of the limitations (trade assets vs tearing down the team) we have and remain a team after a trade that could compete...I for one am taking a positive approach and hope that LB and the FO are actually being cautious rather than making any trade that comes along. If we make a trade I'd like to know/feel we are better not fleeced!
ohara831
10-25-2008, 10:07 AM
Absolutely!! A trade for the sake of a trade would be a bad move. The move has to be thought out and wise.
dav7z
10-25-2008, 05:33 PM
You guys konw how bad we need a four . I just thought other GMs are not going to give us a damn thing knowing how bad our need is, We can't just trade for a worse piece of shit player because of our need.
May clearly is not cuting it as a starter . So i guess im saying til May can get into shape we beanch him and give our rookie a crash corse playing in the NBA . Its no way he plays no worse than Mays playing right now. So im for starting the rookie over May if we not in shape to make a fair trade . Larry give Alexas the ball and let the kid learn . He can't be no worse than May and at least the kid will be learning.
Dav I tend to agree since they kept A. Brown as a real change of pace from AA...the start of preaseason I wanted him sent to D-League for seasoning but I think we all agree that McMay has nothing to give at this point...and frankly when he does I think he'll just get hurt again so why not play others and give them a chance...better to see if we have anything at all at the 4...
I just read this on ESPN and LB is talking about the 4 position being played by "committee"...pretty good read...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3663518
spectre
10-25-2008, 06:09 PM
Nice find!
They know the problem just like we do...but for the folks who want management to make a move you have this:
May's fitness and the depth issues have led Brown to conclude they'll have to play at a slower pace than he would like -- until perhaps they reshape the roster.
Brown's been known to trade before. Let's just hope they don't panic and make a bad deal if they do. Hopefully "by committee" gets us thru until a good option comes along or May gets his fat ass able to play (I know).
I agree 100% spectre...I think we only have the chance for one good move this year and I'd prefer they make it a good one!
dav7z
10-25-2008, 06:36 PM
WOW. I had no idea of that artical . That just conferms what we all have been saying.
Good find, I kinda got the idea in that artical thet Brown feels hes being forced to to go back starting Wallace at the four. I know that might not be best for Wallace. But starting him at the four might put the best five on the floor. Comittie might be the best way to go til somthing better comes along.
It was a relief for me finding out that our FO is actually aware of the problem since the fans all are aware....I'd rather go committee (and like LB for it even more) than force a trade with us on the short end of the trade...
Marvel
10-25-2008, 06:43 PM
Brown has been known to make a trade happen when a player gets injured,although May isn't injured he may as well be.I see a trade happening very soon with fatty McMay vacating into "Darkness".On the regular season note things are more likely to get worse before they get better. I would like to see how this team plays for at least 12 games before rash decisions are made.
dnbman
10-25-2008, 06:50 PM
Good find, I kinda got the idea in that artical thet Brown feels hes being forced to to go back starting Wallace at the four. I know that might not be best for Wallace. But starting him at the four might put the best five on the floor. Comittie might be the best way to go til somthing better comes along.
Maybe. No matter who starts, I'm guess he'll just play the match-up. For smaller PFs, I'm sure he won't hesitate to put Wallace at the PF. If it's a bigger PF, I'm guessing Brown rotates more in. I really think the rotation will be more based on the opponent, which can be bad since our game plan will be dictated more by the opponent than us imposing our will on the other team.
Keetch
10-25-2008, 07:49 PM
To quote Dnbman: "No matter who starts...." against most NBA teams, we're gonna get manhandled at the 4. That's not whining or crying; that's what will happen when our committee tries to guard Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Josh Smith, Dirk Nowitzki, Carmelo Anthony, Rasheed Wallace, Michael Beasley, David West, Zach Randolph, Rashard Lewis, Elton Brand, Amare Stoudemire, Marcus Camby, Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer, Antawn Jamison, Tim Duncan, Chris Wilcox, LaMarcus Aldridge, Luis Scola, Troy Murphy and heaven forbid Mikki Moore.
I bet Andre Brown can handle Al Harrington though. Well, maybe.
dnbman
10-25-2008, 07:53 PM
To quote Dnbman: "No matter who starts...." against most NBA teams, we're gonna get manhandled at the 4. That's not whining or crying; that's what will happen when our committee tries to guard Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Josh Smith, Dirk Nowitzki, Carmelo Anthony, Rasheed Wallace, Michael Beasley, David West, Zach Randolph, Rashard Lewis, Elton Brand, Amare Stoudemire, Marcus Camby, Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer, Antawn Jamison, Tim Duncan, Chris Wilcox, LaMarcus Aldridge, Luis Scola, Troy Murphy and heaven forbid Mikki Moore.
I bet Andre Brown can handle Al Harrington though. Well, maybe.
One thing that strikes me about that list is the inclusion of so many non-traditional PFs. Granted, all of those guys bring something significant to the table that compensates for their lack of a traditional PF game. What I realize though is that each of those teams makes great use of the strength of their PF. Hopefully Brown will do the same and not simply try to play our committee as traditional 4s.
Keetch
10-25-2008, 07:58 PM
From the first sentence of the article:
"Lacking depth in the frontcourt, the Charlotte Bobcats were depending on Sean May's healthy return from knee surgery to fill the gaping hole at power forward."
How seriously wrong is that. Are the fans the only ones who for 2 years now have at best seen Sean May as a luxury contract that (long-shot) could hopefully return to former glory. But "the Charlotte Bobcats were depending" (!?!?!?!)
No GM in his right brain (which probably means 29 of them) would depend on Sean May. Is he worth carrying on the hope that he will return from micro-fracture surgery? Sure. Do you depend on him returning? Duh NOOOOOO!
Sheesh. I'm sorry I'm still amazed that they depended on him LAST YEAR. This year? Wow.
Keetch
10-25-2008, 08:03 PM
Dnbman: All of those players are paired with bigger and/or better Centers too, leaving Okafor isolated and ready for abuse. I've really come to recognize how critical the position is.
None of this is remotely news. Hell. Its just very weird to hear LB say it so plainly.
Then again. Better said than not. In LB I trust.
I guess Jermareo Davidson is a non-factor. I wonder what he did (does) to be out of LB's plans. I'm really wondering if he doesn't have some "behavioral" issues that don't go with the plan.
I have not heard of any problem(s) with Davidson I just think he is one of the players that really does not get LB game plan yet...I'd still rather go committee than bad trade though...(and I'm still looking at other teams cuts)...
We need to start trying to dump contracts like Meks, Swish , Wallace. Felton, Morrison , May, Carroll, Nazz, Augustine , AA,.
After last nights game im ready to blow up this core and start over. I would give up any player on this team to be solid at all five positions.
http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/
Rodriguz, Frye, Outlaw. for Crash
That's almost all of our roster. If that's your point what's stoping you from just finding another team to cheer? Try Boston or LAL? Their doing all the right moves and have the best players, why dont you just put up a celticsplanet???
I think most of us are here because we see special potential with these group (pending improvement only at the PF spot) and what these team can do on a basketball court once they peak their potentials, and to insinuate change all the players is plain and simple POINTLESS!
dav7z
10-25-2008, 09:42 PM
That's almost all of our roster. If that's your point what's stoping you from just finding another team to cheer? Try Boston or LAL? Their doing all the right moves and have the best players, why dont you just put up a celticsplanet???
I think most of us are here because we see special potential with these group (pending improvement only at the PF spot) and what these team can do on a basketball court once they peak their potentials, and to insinuate change all the players is plain and simple POINTLESS!
Yes thats called BLOWING UP A ROSTER, No that wasn't my intensions if you cared to read more of this thread than the first post. Most of this thread has to do with flusterations of loosing and finding a replacment p/f/ . It seems as if you love to start some kind of junk on most ever thread with most ever person. Look if you hear as a Bobcats fan then great join in . IF you hear to try and piss people off take it else where.
From mid 2006 i have been posting on this site and i don't have to explain myself to you .
Don't try to question peoples loyalty on this site when you have been hear only a few weeks hell ive been a season ticket holder since day one . I DON'T QUESTION YOUR LOYALTY OR TRY TO START JUNK ABOUT YOU.
http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7900
After starting that crap you question me?????????
I comented on your post not the entire thread. If you made a mistake in posting those comments why do you hate it when othe people here CORRECTS YOU?! you act as if you're better that everyone else's opinion because you've been here the longest. What you said was wrong in changing all the rosters because what made you love the bobcats in the first place?? i've said also things out of frustration BUT i dont go ALMIGHTY when other people CORRECTS me and present my UNQUESTIONABLE LOYALTY AND BRAGs ABOUT THE LONGEVITY OF MY TENURE HERE IN THIS SITE. It seems like your claiming to be the bobcats NO.1 fan of all time and beyond any wrong comments because of your "LONGEVITY" here compare to everyone else the way your talking, fine i wont compete with that one:)
Maybe later on you should demand for a MONUMENT for all your hardwork here. You probably deserve it.
I think anyone here is capable of making a wrong assesment or comment once in a while, but i DONT think that just because you've been here the longest makes you UNCORRECTABLE and UNMISTAKABLE in all your comments. thats just abusive.
ohara831
10-25-2008, 10:55 PM
Tensions are tight, and I'll be the first to admit that I have been hard on this team, certain players, and mgmnt. I cant believe they were stupid enough to put so many eggs in the Sean May basket. Anyway, let's not start attacking each other. We can disagree like gentlenen, discuss our positions and even question why someone promotes a certain idea. But we dont need to characterize each others ideas as "stupid" or call someone a "hater" or tell them to "go cheer for another team." We can all love our Bobcats and want the best for them, even if we disagree with someone in which that someone believes to be the best coarse of action. PEACE TO ALL MY FELLOW BOBCAT FANS ACROSS THE BP.
I realize that it is LBs' first season here but why anyone else in the FO expected McMay to report in shape baffles me...I admire the fact that LB and front office seem to be facing the fact we have no starting 4 on the team...I doubt that this acknowledgment will surprise any other team in the league so I really see no down side and it could be LB and front office letting the owner know that the team might have to eat the McMay contract so they can actually do something about the 4 position (just a guess)...
I'm still looking at other potential trade partners so that a trade might work both ways but I'm stuck at the Kings as far as Crash is concerned...problem is I get the distinct feeling that LB is not all that interested in trading Crash so it may very well be committee for awile unless another team becomes desperate to unload a contract and I'm not reasing that possibility anywhere....anyone else heard of possible "dumps" that might help us? (please exclude Knicks and their over the top contracts...I'd rather not have us hog tied for years with one of their bad contracts""")
dav7z
10-25-2008, 11:20 PM
I think anyone here is capable of making a wrong assesment or comment once in a while, but i DONT think that just because you've been here the longest makes you UNCORRECTABLE and UNMISTAKABLE in all your comments. thats just abusive.
Look i make more mistakes than most . And i know less about Basketball than most . Like Spectre or Ohara or Ziggy, Slam or a dozen others on this site. But i don't try to start junk with other members. Most respect me and i respect all of them . All im saying is when you say or do somthing respect the others on the board . If you show us respect and don't resort to personal attacks i assure you . They wont attack you on a personal basis. Look all is good between me and you on my part. This is a basketball site not a pissing contest.
Anyone think it's worth bringing in Fazekas in for a look....I know his face up game is OK but I also know he is slow and not particularly athletic...his defense is shaky because of that....but he may be the best PF cut so far...thoughts?
dav7z
10-25-2008, 11:42 PM
I realize that it is LBs' first season here but why anyone else in the FO expected McMay to report in shape baffles me...I admire the fact that LB and front office seem to be facing the fact we have no starting 4 on the team...I doubt that this acknowledgment will surprise any other team in the league so I really see no down side and it could be LB and front office letting the owner know that the team might have to eat the McMay contract so they can actually do something about the 4 position (just a guess)...
I'm still looking at other potential trade partners so that a trade might work both ways but I'm stuck at the Kings as far as Crash is concerned...problem is I get the distinct feeling that LB is not all that interested in trading Crash so it may very well be committee for awile unless another team becomes desperate to unload a contract and I'm not reasing that possibility anywhere....anyone else heard of possible "dumps" that might help us? (please exclude Knicks and their over the top contracts...I'd rather not have us hog tied for years with one of their bad contracts""")
I have been thinking the same thing. Whos out thair thet is starting quility and don't kill the core. Landry was a nice attempt. I fear CRASH would not bring us the value he deserves in a trade. I have thought about Miles but hes coming off the same segery May is . He might be worth working out. It might be kinda fun to just put the ball in the rookies hand and see what he can do . On the job experiance? I have no real ideas i just don't
want us to do somthing real stupid.
dav7z
10-25-2008, 11:45 PM
Anyone think it's worth bringing in Fazekas in for a look....I know his face up game is OK but I also know he is slow and not particularly athletic...his defense is shaky because of that....but he may be the best PF cut so far...thoughts?
Wow i for got about him . You know he could at least put a nice bandaid on the problem.
Very true on the nothing stupid...
dav7z
10-25-2008, 11:51 PM
What would you guys think about working out both Miles and Fazekas?????????
TheBeagle
10-26-2008, 01:23 AM
What would you guys think about working out both Miles and Fazekas????????? I don't know which Miles you're talking about. Darius? No way. C.J.? He plays for Utah, I think, and neither are 4s anyway. Andre Brown is more active, athletic, and talented than Fazekas, so I wouldn't go that route either.
Brandon Bass would be such a great addition, alas, the Mavs have him and aren't likely to part with him. If possible, I think the FO should put a full-court press (pun intended:cool:) on trying to pry BB from the Mavs. I'd give any combination of anyone except JRich, Gerald, Mek, DJ, or Alexis and take back something else of the Mavs to make salaries match if needed. I can't see it happening, but it would be ideal for us...and Bass for that matter as he would be a starter and not stuck behind Dirk.
millst2
10-26-2008, 01:25 AM
You guys konw how bad we need a four . I just thought other GMs are not going to give us a damn thing knowing how bad our need is, We can't just trade for a worse piece of shit player because of our need.
May clearly is not cuting it as a starter . So i guess im saying til May can get into shape we beanch him and give our rookie a crash corse playing in the NBA . Its no way he plays no worse than Mays playing right now. So im for starting the rookie over May if we not in shape to make a fair trade . Larry give Alexas the ball and let the kid learn . He can't be no worse than May and at least the kid will be learning.
Well everyone agrees May is out of shape, but benching him isn't going to help him get in shape. I say that LB will play him as much as he can for the first 20 or so games, that would give anyone enough time to be in game shape or better. The FO knows that there isn't any options out there right now at the PF position, so I think they will try and work out some type of rotation with May in the game, see if he gets in game shape. If not I think they will look to get rid of 1-2 guys for a seasoned PF by Allstar break.
Just M.O., I just do not see where the FO is going to make a trade for may when they know he hasn't had enough PT to get in shape. Training camp is a lot of running and shooting sure, 5 on 5 sure, but it is a whole different level of intensity when your playing an opposing 5 thats looking for the win.
I don't know about you guys but I tell you I have watched several of the preseason games and may was shooting decent, 5/7 ( where wallace and others were shooting 5/8.), but the game they played on TNT against te lakers, Somebody would have to be blind not to see how shitty the whole team was playing.
My concern is that we will find out in the first 20 games who is in shape and who can actually run the LB system that LB wants. If we can get clicking by the first 20 we will have a chance. If may doesnt get in shape by the first 20 games then I am all for trading him. I agree he is out of shape and should have watched what he was dieting on, but damn, the mans been on the bench a while. And to compare may to someone who was just out a season isn't that fair a measurement considering may was out a lot of the previous season before his surgery.
Yeah I know I will take some flames for this but I think May is good, he just needs to recondition himself. Ammo as well.
You know I do not feel our issue is at PF or PG AS Much as it is at Center. Mek is weak. He goes to the rim weak and his head seems to be somewhere else when he is playing. yeah I know pre-season is all about meshing over wins or losses, but damn, how many times is this guy going to get his shots blocked and balls stolen. I say he may put up 15-16 pts a game but how many does he cost us with his weak offense. Block shots = points for the opposition. We paid him big bucks to deliver yet he plays like someone who works a job and does the minimum amount of work just to get his check.
irritating.
Look i make more mistakes than most . And i know less about Basketball than most . Like Spectre or Ohara or Ziggy, Slam or a dozen others on this site. But i don't try to start junk with other members. Most respect me and i respect all of them . All im saying is when you say or do somthing respect the others on the board . If you show us respect and don't resort to personal attacks i assure you . They wont attack you on a personal basis. Look all is good between me and you on my part. This is a basketball site not a pissing contest.
I was not attacking you, i was commenting/criticizing your post regarding you want to change all of our existing players. then i expand on it to prove my point. afterwards you got pissed and started glorifying yourself of your long record here on this site and digging past post of mine accusing me of starting junk on you which i did not (was merely criticizing/not agreing on your comment). I dont make it a habit on starting junk on somebody, don't accused me of that. i was expressing my opinion and expanding on it not necesarily agreing w/ yours. And i dont do personal attacks either and much comment just to piss someone. ANYWAYS, As long as you respect others opinion and don't quickly accuse someone all is good to me too.
I AGREE.this is a basketball site, so lets respect others comment/critic even though it doesnt neccesarily agree with us.
Marvel
10-26-2008, 03:29 AM
Fazekas no,Bass maybe but seriously guys if Brown's track record is anything to go by and i'm a believer in Larry then the Cats should improve this season.Getting rid of McMay though is crucial.
tamburello
10-26-2008, 04:57 AM
It would be weird to see a club making trade attempts for another club's minimum salary player (Bass). If we need him that badly, why not? Bass is a very talented player, since he was drafted in 2nd round I'm sure about it.
Assume that we have enough expirings to make a deal with Mavs. They don't have so many real bad contracts, which they'd want to damp so badly, only Dampier and Diop's I guess, but I don't want either of them. I believe no one would want here, especially while we still have Mohammed's contract.
Let me put it this way, would you trade Felton (virtually expiring) + Hollins (expiring) for Bass + Diop + 2nd round pick? This trade works under salary cap rules, but cannot be realized until 15 Dec, because of Hollins' and Diop's newly signed contracts. And don't forget that Hollins has a virtual no-trade clause because he's in 1 year contract, and he'll lose his Early-Bird rights if he's traded.
If I were Mavs, I would do it. They're looking for a backup to Kidd, and Felton would be a dream backup for him at this stage of season. They lacked size in playoffs last year, that's why they gave Diop such a ridiculous contract, but they wouldn't mind parting with him again, considering the income.
But if I were Rod Higgins, I would not do this. Because we'll likely drown in salary-mud in a few years, Diop's contract would do it only worse. And it's very likely that we'd lose Bass after one season, if we'd like to keep him, we'd have to give him a Diop or Carroll-like contract.
ohara831
10-26-2008, 05:08 AM
Guys, my gut tells me we will see Okafor and NAZR starting, but considering the way LB just raved on and on about Ajinca, I suspect we will see a lot more of him a lot earlier than any of us expect. We can only hope he developes a lot quicker than we all expect.
dnbman
10-26-2008, 09:20 AM
It would be weird to see a club making trade attempts for another club's minimum salary player (Bass). If we need him that badly, why not? Bass is a very talented player, since he was drafted in 2nd round I'm sure about it.
Assume that we have enough expirings to make a deal with Mavs. They don't have so many real bad contracts, which they'd want to damp so badly, only Dampier and Diop's I guess, but I don't want either of them. I believe no one would want here, especially while we still have Mohammed's contract.
Let me put it this way, would you trade Felton (virtually expiring) + Hollins (expiring) for Bass + Diop + 2nd round pick? This trade works under salary cap rules, but cannot be realized until 15 Dec, because of Hollins' and Diop's newly signed contracts. And don't forget that Hollins has a virtual no-trade clause because he's in 1 year contract, and he'll lose his Early-Bird rights if he's traded.
If I were Mavs, I would do it. They're looking for a backup to Kidd, and Felton would be a dream backup for him at this stage of season. They lacked size in playoffs last year, that's why they gave Diop such a ridiculous contract, but they wouldn't mind parting with him again, considering the income.
But if I were Rod Higgins, I would not do this. Because we'll likely drown in salary-mud in a few years, Diop's contract would do it only worse. And it's very likely that we'd lose Bass after one season, if we'd like to keep him, we'd have to give him a Diop or Carroll-like contract.
I don't think there's anyway I'd trade Felton now unless we were getting a definite fix at the PF spot, which I don't think Bass is. He's had some impressive games, but he hasn't demonstrated he can be a starting level PF.
Meanwhile, both of our pgs are struggling to figure out Brown's system. I wouldn't want to trade either of them until one of them shows he can run the show.
dav7z
10-26-2008, 11:32 AM
Brown said Mays not even in playing shape much less starting. Bas is interesting but im not sure he be the right move two year down the road. As Tamb said we would have cap truble.
I had a dream lasrt night and we traded Hollins and a second rounder for Fabio.
I for one would consider Fabio back as i dont feel Vincent didn't give Fabio a fair chance.
Between him and A Brown and the two different styles of play might work.
Thoughts on trying to get Fabio back .He finished a great season year befor last?
I'm trying to "see" a trade that LB would make that does not hurt the team but I'm not seeing one...I liked trying for Landry just sorry it did not work so I'm at the point we have to go with what we have unless another team becomes desperate to dump....
Other teams' cuts are always a possibility but we have no roster spot so I doubt that will happen without eating a contract...
dav7z
10-26-2008, 12:04 PM
Fazekas stats , He can hit the pick and pop and he has size . Should we work him out . I think we give him a look . Him and A Brown have a big contrast in style of play.
Its a chance Fazekas could turn in to a NBA quility starter given the right coaching.It couldn't hurt for Brown to work him out . Thought picking up another p/f don't go well for the guys at the end of the roster.
Check out his stats , Your thoughts.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/nick_fazekas/index.html
Let me put it this way, would you trade Felton (virtually expiring) + Hollins (expiring) for Bass + Diop + 2nd round pick? This trade works under salary cap rules, but cannot be realized until 15 Dec, because of Hollins' and Diop's newly signed contracts. And don't forget that Hollins has a virtual no-trade clause because he's in 1 year contract, and he'll lose his Early-Bird rights if he's traded.
Not a hope in hell.
Why do this deal if we are wanting to play EO50 at the 5? We bring Diop in to be a back up to Nazzy who is a back up to EO50 plus it leaves us with a rookie as our starting PG and no one backing him at the point?
This would be a horrible, horrible deal for the Cats - for need and for $$$$
Brown said Mays not even in playing shape much less starting. Bas is interesting but im not sure he be the right move two year down the road. As Tamb said we would have cap truble.
I had a dream lasrt night and we traded Hollins and a second rounder for Fabio.
I for one would consider Fabio back as i dont feel Vincent didn't give Fabio a fair chance.
Between him and A Brown and the two different styles of play might work.
Thoughts on trying to get Fabio back .He finished a great season year befor last?
Fabio is fun but he is far from our answer at the 4. While he denies the entry pass quite well, once his opposing player actually gets the ball he's screwed. They can either use their strength and size to post him up and back him down or face him up and blow right by him.
Plus he's not at all a shot blocker or a very good rebounder.
I'd rather play Dude at the 4.
tamburello
10-26-2008, 04:06 PM
Not a hope in hell.
Why do this deal if we are wanting to play EO50 at the 5? We bring Diop in to be a back up to Nazzy who is a back up to EO50 plus it leaves us with a rookie as our starting PG and no one backing him at the point?
This would be a horrible, horrible deal for the Cats - for need and for $$$$
I supposed this idea because someone mentioned that we should do everything to get Bass, even if it requires to take a bad contract along him and all bad contracts that Mavs have are Diop's and Dampier's, both are centers, which is a coincidence.
And as I said before, this deal is good for Mavs, not us.
TheBeagle
10-27-2008, 12:37 AM
I supposed this idea because someone mentioned that we should do everything to get Bass, even if it requires to take a bad contract along him and all bad contracts that Mavs have are Diop's and Dampier's, both are centers, which is a coincidence.
And as I said before, this deal is good for Mavs, not us. That was me, but my caveat (which I didn't state on my post) is not to take on any ugly contracts. I should do a search for the Mavs roster, but I'm too lazy, so I'll just say we would take on Bass and some filler to equal the salary of one of our players. I also admitted it wasn't realistic that we could acquire him; it's more of what I think would be an ideal fit for us. I'd also love the Tazmanian Devil that is Reggie Evans, but he's so limited offensively, it wouldn't work; but still, talk about having somebody with non-stop energy and effort!!
ohara831
10-27-2008, 09:39 AM
Hey, NY Knicks have until 6:00 to reduce roster from 16 to 15. They may have to cut Ewing, Jr. I know he's just a Rookie, but I loved him at Georgetown. I'd like to grab him and eat Hollin's contract if need be. I know he's not a Veteran, but he plays tough and physical and would play a better PF than Hollins! Just a small help.
tamburello
10-27-2008, 09:54 AM
Hey, NY Knicks have until 6:00 to reduce roster from 16 to 15. They may have to cut Ewing, Jr. I know he's just a Rookie, but I loved him at Georgetown. I'd like to grab him and eat Hollin's contract if need be. I know he's not a Veteran, but he plays tough and physical and would play a better PF than Hollins! Just a small help.
Didn't Knicks give Rockets a former 1st round pick (I know it is Frederic Weis, but still a former 1st round pick) to acquire him? So I believe Ewing may be kept in roster, instead Anthony Roberson could be waived. Ewing is not only a basketball player, but he means a lot to Knicks fans (you all know why).
@Beagle, if they would not dump any of their bad contracts, I couldn't see why Mavs would want to part with maybe the best minimum salary player of the league. That's why I've assumed that way :)
ohara831
10-27-2008, 10:48 AM
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix1027,0,1158105.story
Tam, this is where I read where Ewing, Jr. might be the odd man out.
spectre
10-27-2008, 11:01 AM
Darko for Ammo/May...they do it for the expirings.
Hard to think of a team who'll take our crap/bench fodder without a pick, but Memphis might bite. Dunno if LB and Darko would have issues though back from their time together in DET.
what about Linas Kleiza? he will be a RFA Friday and the nuggets have not made an offer yet. they are over the cap, we could offer him a contract they would be reluctant to match.
I think he's a definite upgrade from what we have...he seems tough and shoots well and he's no shorter that some other guys that have been discussed...I think if Denver does not extend him the FO (like Landry) should try for him with a possible sign and trade....it wouldn't bother me to have him...
tamburello
10-27-2008, 03:00 PM
Patrick Ewing Jr. is reportedly waived, all things I said previously folds.
Linas Kleiza is not a RFA at the moment, he will be next summer, unless Nuggets extends him in a few days. So he's not an option.
dav7z
10-27-2008, 03:32 PM
Tamb i just found the link. Agreeded he would be a nice addition . Only problem is hes another wing guy s/f . But i think i would cut S Brown in a second to pick him up .
Then we have even more flexability moving another wing for a p/f.
I think he could play either position the s/g or the s/f. If we did this i would feel better about puting all our other wings on the trading block.
Dudley, Carroll, Morrison, Wallace, or even Swish for the right player.
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/55098/20081027/ewing_jr_waived_walsh_comments/
ohara831
10-27-2008, 04:10 PM
Ewing, Jr. is just the kind of player that can blossom into quality PF. Desire and hustle and I'd love to see him ina Bobcat uni!!!
playoffs...PLAYOFFS?
10-27-2008, 04:16 PM
picking up ewing jr would be a big gamble, he wasn't really a standout in college , did not post big numbers. if you want to take a gamble, pick up david padgett.. while he did get injured in college, he made a good come back healing quicker than expected. he also has the credentials that two good college coaches (roy williams/rick pitino) wanted him on their teams.
Mustachio
10-27-2008, 06:13 PM
Ewing, Jr. is just the kind of player that can blossom into quality PF. Desire and hustle and I'd love to see him ina Bobcat uni!!!
he also has the same body as Gerald Wallace if not smaller... whom we are dead set against playing PF because he is undersized and takes a beating.
countryboi
10-27-2008, 06:18 PM
Davidson waived; roster at 14
The Bobcats waived forward Jermareo Davidson Monday, reducing the roster to 14 players.
Davidson was originally drafted by Golden State in 2007 and traded to the Bobcats along with Jason Richardson in the draft-night deal for Brandan Wright. He averaged 2.0 points, 0.7 rebounds and 1.0 blocked shots in three exhibitions, playing an average of 8.8 minutes.
dav7z
10-27-2008, 07:50 PM
If we added Ewing and traded Wallace for for the Laker back up p/f or another strong P/F. We would still be ok on the wings with a combo of Dudley, Morrison , Carrol, Ewing, Ewing plays a lot like Wallace , He even reminds me of a younger healthy Wallace . The kid should be great on defence. Hes 6.7 225 , about the same size as Wallace.
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