Numbers

[docend24]

I've noticed some interesting numbers and I'm sure I overlooked some others. I would be great to share what whoever found to get better understanding what's going on and to give us a hope in hard times.

For the start there are stats of our starting five from last five games (4 in case of Crash):
(FG% - 3PT% - FT% - PPG - RPG - APG - SPG - BPG / TO - PF / PT)

Felton 39.7% - 30.0% - 73.9% - 13.2 - 3.8 - 6.8 - 1.4 - 0.4 / 3.4 - 2.8 / in around 40 minutes

Bell 39.1% - 47.9% - 100%* - 9.4 - 3.2 - 2.4 - N/A - N/A / 0.8 - 1.8 / in around 30 minutes (influenced by the ejection)

Wallace 65.9% - 66.7% - 84.6% - 20.0 - 8.5 - 2.8 - 1.3 - 1.0 / 2.0 - 2.8 / in around 35 miutes

Diaw 50.8% - 60.0% - 100%* - 14.8 - 9.2 - 5.0 - 0.8 - 0.8 / 4.0 - 2.6 / in around 39 minutes

Okafor 61.4% - N/A - 51.2% - 21.4 - 12.0 - 1.8 - 0.8 - 2.6 / 2.0 - 2.0 / in around 37 minutes

*FTs 2-2

Not that bad, right?

[neogenic]

I've noticed some interesting numbers and I'm sure I overlooked some others. I would be great to share what whoever found to get better understanding what's going on and to give us a hope in hard times.

For the start there are stats of our starting five from last five games (4 in case of Crash):
(FG% - 3PT% - FT% - PPG - RPG - APG - SPG - BPG / TO - PF / PT)

Felton 39.7% - 30.0% - 73.9% - 13.2 - 3.8 - 6.8 - 1.4 - 0.4 / 3.4 - 2.8 / in around 40 minutes

Bell 39.1% - 47.9% - 100%* - 9.4 - 3.2 - 2.4 - N/A - N/A / 0.8 - 1.8 / in around 30 minutes (influenced by the ejection)

Wallace 65.9% - 66.7% - 84.6% - 20.0 - 8.5 - 2.8 - 1.3 - 1.0 / 2.0 - 2.8 / in around 35 miutes

Diaw 50.8% - 60.0% - 100%* - 14.8 - 9.2 - 5.0 - 0.8 - 0.8 / 4.0 - 2.6 / in around 39 minutes

Okafor 61.4% - N/A - 51.2% - 21.4 - 12.0 - 1.8 - 0.8 - 2.6 / 2.0 - 2.0 / in around 37 minutes

*FTs 2-2

Not that bad, right?
Your guards shooting under 40% is not good. Not good at all. As you can see nearly all, with no exaggeration, of Raja's made shots were 3 pointers uncontested. his two point shot percentage is absolutely abysmal. He's the anti-felton, if you will. Felton shoots 30% from 3 and that pulls his FG% down. He's not that good of shooter in general, very streaky...but he is one of the best in the league, and quite frankly the best on the team for penetration. He gets to the hoop and will convert layups...sometimes I wish he'd dump off to a big or penetrate and kick to the corner for 3, but for better or for worse he looks to finish.

A number that might stick out if you had it, is that we lead the league in getting blocked. Emeka has the 3rd highest FG% in the league, but is also #1 in the league for getting blocked. Two ways to look at that. That's a big problem in that he doesn't readjust or just "go hard" without throwing up little baby hooks, etc. The other way is, whoa, imagine if he fixed this...what would his FG% be???? They need to work on it. With Emeka it is a simple fix of look to dunk, to be more physical and not necessarily worry about it being a makable shot. He may factor in taking physicality with having to shoot free throws, which is a considerable weakness for him (unfortunately seems to have gotten worse of late). The other one that gets blocked a lot...is DJ. He is not like Felton, rarely does he finish when he penetrates. He'll get there, but then get blocked seemingly more often than not. He just doesn't use the rim and his body in the air as well as Felton. That said he does look to dump off and kick out. So they have their strengths and weaknesses.

[davcbow]

At the same time our per game ave is 100 per game on offense and 90.3 on defense in the last 5 games....:cool:

[and1droid]

Hi all, I'm sorta new to this site. Was drawn in from the crazy trade talk from last week and was rightly disappointed when "BAN" gave us "news" about a trade rumor that I thought had been squashed weeks ago. Golden State apparently has no interests in Felton. So I thought I'd start posting.

I agree that a guard shouldn't shoot a percentage as low as Felton does. It's a week spot for him. He's still a solid contributor and I wouldn't trade him unless we get another veteran PG and some front court help in return. Other than that I agree that the numbers look pretty good on this recent stretch.

Okafor looks a lot better this season and I think should be a reserve on the all star team. His problem w/ getting blocked isn't so easy to fix IMO. He settles for bad shots because he sometimes gets the ball too far from the basket. He really doesn't have the skill to drive to the rim so he's not left with many options. He needs to be able to make jump shots or get the ball closer to the basket. At this point in his career he should be able to do both, and I expect LB to keep developing that in him.

Also, I may be wrong but I didn't think blocked shots counted against your shooting percentage.

[neogenic]

Also, I may be wrong but I didn't think blocked shots counted against your shooting percentage.

I assumed they did. That's interesting if they do not...as you did shoot it...and it did not go in. If you find the answer let me know.

[BIGCatBobcat]

most important number from the last 5 games: 4. 4 wins! I don't care what the numbers look like after a win. Actually I take that back, I've worn out my calculator and excel writing today's blog and yesterday's post, not to mention basketball-reference.com

Stats are cool but basketball is all about entertainment and W's.

[docend24]

Your guards shooting under 40% is not good. Not good at all. As you can see nearly all, with no exaggeration, of Raja's made shots were 3 pointers uncontested. his two point shot percentage is absolutely abysmal. He's the anti-felton, if you will. Felton shoots 30% from 3 and that pulls his FG% down. He's not that good of shooter in general, very streaky...but he is one of the best in the league, and quite frankly the best on the team for penetration. He gets to the hoop and will convert layups...sometimes I wish he'd dump off to a big or penetrate and kick to the corner for 3, but for better or for worse he looks to finish.

A number that might stick out if you had it, is that we lead the league in getting blocked. Emeka has the 3rd highest FG% in the league, but is also #1 in the league for getting blocked. Two ways to look at that. That's a big problem in that he doesn't readjust or just "go hard" without throwing up little baby hooks, etc. The other way is, whoa, imagine if he fixed this...what would his FG% be???? They need to work on it. With Emeka it is a simple fix of look to dunk, to be more physical and not necessarily worry about it being a makable shot. He may factor in taking physicality with having to shoot free throws, which is a considerable weakness for him (unfortunately seems to have gotten worse of late). The other one that gets blocked a lot...is DJ. He is not like Felton, rarely does he finish when he penetrates. He'll get there, but then get blocked seemingly more often than not. He just doesn't use the rim and his body in the air as well as Felton. That said he does look to dump off and kick out. So they have their strengths and weaknesses.
I was going to write down a precise answer but then I realized that you don't know much about our players and why I highlighted the numbers I highlighted. So I won't bother. The only thing I missed in your post was up to date info how much Emeka is injury prone.

[spectre]

I assumed they did. That's interesting if they do not...as you did shoot it...and it did not go in. If you find the answer let me know.

They do! By definition it's a shot attempt and then a blocked shot.

As often as I've had either gamecast or a stats page up during games I feel pretty sure that's right. I'll make sure and pay attention tonight.

[neogenic]

most important number from the last 5 games: 4. 4 wins! I don't care what the numbers look like after a win. Actually I take that back, I've worn out my calculator and excel writing today's blog and yesterday's post, not to mention basketball-reference.com

Stats are cool but basketball is all about entertainment and W's.

That's not a coach's perspective. Anyone who's successful at anything, doesn't just say...hey we're winning, who cares. Or hey we're making money right now...who cares. Even with wins...Even with the Celtics winning you need to constantly assess weaknesses...and exploit strengths. The stats are a tool that give insight. You may have different rotations or have players work on certain things or have different assignments. To say, hey we're winning, just ride it. That ain't going to get championships. We lost last night. We had a player drop 50 on us and lose. We've played mediocre teams. We have things to work on. If you think we'll continue to win 80% of our games for the rest of the season...well...we got the championship locked up right now.

[neogenic]

I was going to write down a precise answer but then I realized that you don't know much about our players and why I highlighted the numbers I highlighted. So I won't bother. The only thing I missed in your post was up to date info how much Emeka is injury prone.

That's an interestingly negative post towards me. I was adding conversation and understood your post fully. I tend to be a realist, not just an optimist. Larry Brown after the games, if you've heard him says, even with a win, a lot of things that they did not do right. He'll pinpoint plays or points in the game that cost the team. He'll call out players, starters, that may have had a good night overall for letting a few things happen. This isn't pessimism.

I thought my post was insightful and I was opening up discussion. Discussion often and hopefully involves different points of view. I do know these players very, very well. I've met nearly all of them. I've had season tickets since the beginning, 5 rows off the floor, and I go to every single preseason and regular season game. I went to the Wilmington trip. I've been in the locker rooms.

It's odd to say anyway on a niche board, with an unsuccessful, not popular franchise...that seeks a board like this out...doesn't know the team.

I am pretty sure everyone here knows the team.

[sugarfree311]

Your guards shooting under 40% is not good. Not good at all. As you can see nearly all, with no exaggeration, of Raja's made shots were 3 pointers uncontested. his two point shot percentage is absolutely abysmal. He's the anti-felton, if you will. Felton shoots 30% from 3 and that pulls his FG% down. He's not that good of shooter in general, very streaky...but he is one of the best in the league, and quite frankly the best on the team for penetration. He gets to the hoop and will convert layups...sometimes I wish he'd dump off to a big or penetrate and kick to the corner for 3, but for better or for worse he looks to finish.

A number that might stick out if you had it, is that we lead the league in getting blocked. Emeka has the 3rd highest FG% in the league, but is also #1 in the league for getting blocked. Two ways to look at that. That's a big problem in that he doesn't readjust or just "go hard" without throwing up little baby hooks, etc. The other way is, whoa, imagine if he fixed this...what would his FG% be???? They need to work on it. With Emeka it is a simple fix of look to dunk, to be more physical and not necessarily worry about it being a makable shot. He may factor in taking physicality with having to shoot free throws, which is a considerable weakness for him (unfortunately seems to have gotten worse of late). The other one that gets blocked a lot...is DJ. He is not like Felton, rarely does he finish when he penetrates. He'll get there, but then get blocked seemingly more often than not. He just doesn't use the rim and his body in the air as well as Felton. That said he does look to dump off and kick out. So they have their strengths and weaknesses.

You may watch all the games, but you must not pay attention very closely. Raymond is a terrible finisher at the rim...sure he can penetrate and get there, but he rarely finishes. That is what really kills us at bad times - he thinks he can get inside and score easily, but he always seems to blows the layup. The only time he really finishes there is when we're down 7-9 with a under a minute left and the other team just gives up the layup. I don't know what you're watching that gives you the idea that he is "one of the best in the league, and quite frankly the best on the team for penetration" and "he gets to the hoop and will convert layups."

I have always said he's the worst finishing PG in the league, so I did a little research. On inside shots, he has the 6th worst FG% among starting point guards, but attempts more inside shots than four of the five behind him - which means that statistically he's not the worst finisher, but all but one know they're not good finishers and don't attempt as many shots inside. I decided to expand it to all 60 starting guards in the league and discovered that he has the 8th worst % among starting guards.

Normally I don't turn to stats because I think the timing of shots and situational decision-making are more important than just numbers, but I have seen Felton blow so many layups (many in crunch time) that I had to find out if it really is as bad as I thought. It is.

[TattoodCats4life]

This information above is one of the reasons I'm 100% for us trading felton. I think what we should do is trade felton for a good backup PG with alot of experience, (someone in a similar position to Juwan Howard, on their way out, but wants one or two more years playing 15-20 min/game). We should also see if we cant get another shooting guard as I think we are weak there, but we may have to wait for the draft to fix that.

[neogenic]

You may watch all the games, but you must not pay attention very closely. Raymond is a terrible finisher at the rim...sure he can penetrate and get there, but he rarely finishes. That is what really kills us at bad times - he thinks he can get inside and score easily, but he always seems to blows the layup. The only time he really finishes there is when we're down 7-9 with a under a minute left and the other team just gives up the layup. I don't know what you're watching that gives you the idea that he is "one of the best in the league, and quite frankly the best on the team for penetration" and "he gets to the hoop and will convert layups."

I have always said he's the worst finishing PG in the league, so I did a little research. On inside shots, he has the 6th worst FG% among starting point guards, but attempts more inside shots than four of the five behind him - which means that statistically he's not the worst finisher, but all but one know they're not good finishers and don't attempt as many shots inside. I decided to expand it to all 60 starting guards in the league and discovered that he has the 8th worst % among starting guards.

Normally I don't turn to stats because I think the timing of shots and situational decision-making are more important than just numbers, but I have seen Felton blow so many layups (many in crunch time) that I had to find out if it really is as bad as I thought. It is.
Felton finishes as well as anyone at the rim. He's a streaky jumpshooter that is not consistent at all. Some of his layup choices are a high degree of difficulty and he'll miss some. But he doesn't blow layups ala Matt Caroll, Shannon Brown, or Adam Morrison. And he sure doesn't get blocked nearly every time he tries to go in there like DJ, I love his game otherwise, but even last night on two breakways...ugghh. With his speed it shouldn't be an issue.
Felton drives straight ahead, has a good spin move, protects the ball well, is not scared to go against bigger defenders in traffic, and gets to the rim...making it enough or getting to the free throw line, in which he shoots a good percentage. Who else on our team penetrates well?????? Gerald slashes, but typically doesn't drive through traffic with the ball...he's got to be the only one you can discuss. Ryan Hollins looks to drive. Emeka only can post up. And the other guys mentioned above have been addressed. Sean May is pick and pop. Raja...no. Boris...maybe. He often looks to create and do other things, but he has driven the lane and finished some...not in much traffic, but still nice to see.

One thing I am disappointed in is people being hateful to me when I have a different opinion...like "I may be at the games, but I sure have no clue of what's going on..." Wow. Anyway, back to the discussion.

Felton, as I pointed out gets there better than anyone and makes some of the toughest drives and finishes I've seen a pointguard make, in traffic. That said...as I said...I'd like to see him be a point guard and dump to a center or dish to the corner for a three, much like CP3 does with high efficiency.

There's much to dispute about Felton's game, but when it comes to driving and finishing, amongst our guards he is the best. This is pulling out one facet of his game though. There's many things I'd like to see be different. If he plays point guard, he needs to look to pass first. If he plays shooting guard he needs to be a better shooter...besides him giving up height on the defensive end, which has many elite players (the SG spot is loaded) blowing him up as we saw with Crawford simply shooting over the top of him.

Anyway, just posting my thoughts. I responded to the original post as I like to "help" out on the board and I saw that 30 people had looked at is with no responses, so I responded. I have no beef. I do have insight. And this is a place for fans, of which I am one.

[BRNC]

Ray may have more value on the next draft night than right now...we're not going to get a "big" much if any better than we have (or so it seems) for Ray so why hurt depth right now...I think he may have more value later...

[sugarfree311]

Felton finishes as well as anyone at the rim. He's a streaky jumpshooter that is not consistent at all. Some of his layup choices are a high degree of difficulty and he'll miss some. But he doesn't blow layups ala Matt Caroll, Shannon Brown, or Adam Morrison. And he sure doesn't get blocked nearly every time he tries to go in there like DJ, I love his game otherwise, but even last night on two breakways...ugghh. With his speed it shouldn't be an issue.
Felton drives straight ahead, has a good spin move, protects the ball well, is not scared to go against bigger defenders in traffic, and gets to the rim...making it enough or getting to the free throw line, in which he shoots a good percentage. Who else on our team penetrates well?????? Gerald slashes, but typically doesn't drive through traffic with the ball...he's got to be the only one you can discuss. Ryan Hollins looks to drive. Emeka only can post up. And the other guys mentioned above have been addressed. Sean May is pick and pop. Raja...no. Boris...maybe. He often looks to create and do other things, but he has driven the lane and finished some...not in much traffic, but still nice to see.

One thing I am disappointed in is people being hateful to me when I have a different opinion...like "I may be at the games, but I sure have no clue of what's going on..." Wow. Anyway, back to the discussion.

Felton, as I pointed out gets there better than anyone and makes some of the toughest drives and finishes I've seen a pointguard make, in traffic. That said...as I said...I'd like to see him be a point guard and dump to a center or dish to the corner for a three, much like CP3 does with high efficiency.

There's much to dispute about Felton's game, but when it comes to driving and finishing, amongst our guards he is the best. This is pulling out one facet of his game though. There's many things I'd like to see be different. If he plays point guard, he needs to look to pass first. If he plays shooting guard he needs to be a better shooter...besides him giving up height on the defensive end, which has many elite players (the SG spot is loaded) blowing him up as we saw with Crawford simply shooting over the top of him.

Anyway, just posting my thoughts. I responded to the original post as I like to "help" out on the board and I saw that 30 people had looked at is with no responses, so I responded. I have no beef. I do have insight. And this is a place for fans, of which I am one.

It's not hateful, you're just wrong. It would be like saying "I am a huge fan, I go to every game, and the Bobcats have green jerseys." No matter how big a fan you are, you'd be wrong. Felton is not a good finisher at the rim. There's no insight or opinion involved there. If you think otherwise, you really aren't paying attention to the games. Not being mean, it's just the truth.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

It's not hateful, you're just wrong. It would be like saying "I am a huge fan, I go to every game, and the Bobcats have green jerseys." No matter how big a fan you are, you'd be wrong. Felton is not a good finisher at the rim. There's no insight or opinion involved there. If you think otherwise, you really aren't paying attention to the games. Not being mean, it's just the truth.Actually I think Neogenic has done nothing but leave insight. Taking the little piece of what he said and claiming he is not insightful does not make you correct. Questioning the mans knowledge of the players based on a difference of opinion makes one a very small person. If you think Neo is wrong than give your opinion or belief in turn rather than short curt responses that belittle a fellow posters opinion. If you have something of substance to contribute than by all means please do.

As far as my opinions on Felton, I agree with most of what Neogenic says. Does that mean that Felton somehow has some great trade value? No, at this time I think that Felton does not look to kick out and create for teammates many times when he should. Still his ability to go hard to the basket does loosen up defenses and that is an asset. Felton is far from a complete pg but he sure as hell is not the main reason for the struggles the team has had up to this point. (Factor one) The team has had to adjust to a real coach. (Factor Two) When the team started to get in sinc Larry made a trade. As it turns out the trade addressed a need in getting a solid post player as well as a solid defensive player. The team is adjusting to the new parts and SO FAR the trade looks good. (Factor three) Players like Nazr, May, Morrison and Carroll have been a disappointment so far this season. If this team had any depth at all it may be much closer to 500. Since the depth is weak this team will find itself struggling to put games away against a lot of teams imo.

People, I won't get on some soap box about how great Felton is but I really don't think he is the pariah of this team. This team has a lot of issues beyond even those I mentioned but considering certain factors the team is looking better all the time. Will this team make the playoffs? I doubt it, unless somebody wants to give us something of value for players on our team that currently are not contributing very much.

Let's stop hating on Felton and put blame on the guys that truly are causing the team to stay in neutral. Like many of you I want to see AmMo succeed but as of now he just isn't looking capable of playing in the NBA. Carroll is an overpaid bench player and does not add that much to the team. Nazr is good one game out of every ten. May is just a waste of bench space. Shannon Brown is also useless. That is a lot of players who are getting paid to keep this team from reaching any lofty goals. Unfortunately we'll probably have to ride the season out with what we have. Felton is not half bad and other teams don't want him. I doubt we see a trade that makes the team better than it is now. So I will hope for the best but I won't expect it.

The above statements are my opinions and are in no way meant to be construed as factual with no argument to be made. So before we get into a pissing and hissing match just politely state your opinions and we can keep this thing civil. If what I have written offends I apologize. I will try to be more civil in my manner of responding to your post.

[spectre]

Sugarfee did give backing in the post beforehand. Neogenic didn't provide anything more to dispute it so I don't see why another substantive post would have made a difference.

Felton IS one of the best in the league at getting to the rim in a half court set...but on the flip he flat out sucks at finishing. He needs to pass out more.

Crash willed us back into that game in the 4th quarter...but I'm not even sure he got another shot after that. If I remember right in the last 4 plays Felton shot it twice, drove and dished to Mek (who missed) and Felton got the "and one" to tie the game.

Yet LB continues to let/tell him do it. I have no doubt that he would take him out if he didn't approve, and Felton himself insinuated as much in the last after game video. Hopefully they're working on it and LB is trying to turn a half asset into a full one.

Regardless...we need him for his perimeter defense. So long as he does that well I doubt LB moves him.

[Ghost Kat]

I have stay'd away from bashing Felton for the last few days...it's christmas, so i gave Felton another chance. But after reading these arguements about Felton being one of the best in the league at getting to the rim or even being the best on the team.... thats just silly. The best person we have at getting to the rim and Finishing is by far Gerald Wallace. Felton gets to the rim, yes... then what? He either misses the shot and complains to the ref's or he makes a bad pass or he makes a good pass. It's always up in the air with Felton. I'm tired of people trying to make Fleton out to be someone he's not and never will be. Accept the truth people. Alot of posters say we are hating on Felton, Give him a chance under Larry Brown..Blah Blah Blah. When is he suppose to get better? Felton has been the cause of alot of our problems especially late in the game. Last game vs. the nets he took a countless amount of shots in the 4th...made one and that was the lay up to tie the game. Which in all honestly was a easy shot, Brook Lopez got there late.

I'm all for getting rid of Felton Next year, Not this year, I don't want two rookies running the point for this team. But since Raja has been playing beter it has left Felton in the game at PG and he hasn't play'd any better. Sometimes the boxscore doesn't tell the true story of the game but it still doesn't lie about what you did....

[docend24]

I guess iot is clear now why i didn't bother to answer.

And DJ is pretty goo in getting to the rim too. As a rookie he draws a lot of fouls liek that. And not only like that - hi Mr.Rose.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Sugarfee did give backing in the post beforehand. Neogenic didn't provide anything more to dispute it so I don't see why another substantive post would have made a difference.

Felton IS one of the best in the league at getting to the rim in a half court set...but on the flip he flat out sucks at finishing. He needs to pass out more.

Crash willed us back into that game in the 4th quarter...but I'm not even sure he got another shot after that. If I remember right in the last 4 plays Felton shot it twice, drove and dished to Mek (who missed) and Felton got the "and one" to tie the game.

Yet LB continues to let/tell him to do it. I have no doubt that he would take him out if he didn't approve, and Felton himself insinuated as much in the last after game video. Hopefully they're working on it and LB is trying to turn a half asset into a full one.

Regardless...we need him for his perimeter defense. So long as he does that well I doubt LB moves him.Even if per say Felton does miss a lot of drives to the basket he still has an ability to cut through defenses. If you all have a beef with that you are confused imo. Where Felton suffers I agree with you. His poor decision making at times and turning over the basketball by being careless and not finishing. Still if any of you think that our point guard situation is dire because of Raymond perhaps you need to get League Pass and see how poor several teams have it at the one. We are actually fairly deep at the one and I myself would not trade Felton alone for anything that didn't improve our team somewhere. That is not likely. Statistics don't always mean squat. Felton is athletic and plays solid defense. Felton also loosens defenses by not being scared to attack the basket. It may help if Feltons teammates worked harder to get open for easy shots. I have seen many times when Raymond drives and every one just stands and watches. Maybe they expect him to take an inside shot but they still need to work harder. When the team passes and stays with that they do quite well but when they stand around and wait for the passes rather than working to get open that does not help.

Anyway, I really don't have an argument that Felton does not always finish the way he should but on some nights he has been an asset. The first game against the Nets, Felton was a main contributor. The second game he basically stunk it up. That happens. The Nets have two dangerous weapons who stepped it up in OT. The bobcats did not play defense. That is not on Raymond Felton, that is on the team. Even if Crash was scoring at will in OT that is no guarantee that the Bobcats would win the game. The team choked on defense and just left too many easy wide open shots. That is not on Felton that is on the team. Just as one player can not win a game alone, one player can not lose a game alone.

As I said, this team has far too many problems than for us to split hairs about who or what they are. We should all be able to agree that despite some of the improvements we have a long way to go. To focus on one villain just does not make sense. If the Bobcats got nearly what they should from players like Carroll and Morrison we would not even be worried about Felton. We may notice his troubles but he would not come across as a scapegoat.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

I have stayed away from bashing Felton for the last few days...it's Christmas, so i gave Felton another chance. But after reading these arguments about Felton being one of the best in the league at getting to the rim or even being the best on the team.... that's just silly. The best person we have at getting to the rim and Finishing is by far Gerald Wallace. Felton gets to the rim, yes... then what? He either misses the shot and complains to the ref's or he makes a bad pass or he makes a good pass. It's always up in the air with Felton. I'm tired of people trying to make Fleton out to be someone he's not and never will be. Accept the truth people. A lot of posters say we are hating on Felton, Give him a chance under Larry Brown..Blah Blah Blah. When is he supposed to get better? Felton has been the cause of a lot of our problems especially late in the game. Last game vs. the nets he took a countless amount of shots in the 4th...made one and that was the lay up to tie the game. Which in all honestly was a easy shot, Brook Lopez got there late.

I'm all for getting rid of Felton next year, not this year, I don't want two rookies running the point for this team. But since Raja has been playing better it has left Felton in the game at PG and he hasn't played any better. Sometimes the box score doesn't tell the true story of the game but it still doesn't lie about what you did....Actually I can not argue with what you said about Gerald. DJ is fairly good as well. However there are those of you who make Felton the scapegoat and much worse than he is and then there are those who think he is better than he is. I see him as a plenty athletic player with a small basketball IQ. Sometimes he is a catalyst behind victories and many times he hurts the team. With that said I can also say there have been times when even the great Crash has not been so smart. As a team these players are all learning to win. This season may be a bit of a disappointment. I believe however that the growing pains will be worth it in the end.

When we traded JRich it seemed the timing was peculiar and that Boris and Raja were mistakes. Now it looks like the trade gave us a bit of life. Raja is nowhere near what he once was but he is no flop. Boris has been great. With time this lineup as it is should blossom. I doubt we make the playoffs because we are shallow and need some depth. It is not likely we get anything for players like Carroll, Morrison, May, Nazr or Shannon but if we are patient Larry will get us to the playoffs. I am already looking to next year. If the team trades Gerald I will for sure question LB. Actually if we trade any of our core for equal or lesser value I will be upset. Our bench is basically not tradable.

Any way we should not single out any one player on our team for being the thorn in it's side because we have many thorns in the teams side. I mentioned in another post that Felton would not be the subject of so much venom if we had some players who could come off the bench and contribute. Larry is going to have to reluctantly give some playing time to the likes of Morrison, Carroll and May. The other players deserving of playing time or not aren't going to hold up without help. Larry needs to get whatever he can out of this whole team and look to next season.

By the way Felton needs his teammates to do more than stand around and wait for a pass. The team went into a trance offensively and defensively in that OT and Felton was hardly the villain. The game before Felton had a pretty solid game and helped in a victory. Nobody was bitching then.

Singletary is not ready to be a solid backup pg. Felton had to carry more of a load than normal because of DJ being injured. So if you think this one game is representative of Feltons season it may be because you are too focused on Raymond and aren't allowing for some of the other troubles that plaque the team. Felton is no all star but he sure as hell is not some flop. That title would belong to May and Morrison. Those are two high draft picks who are paid for nothing. I tend to want to vent at them. I also feel it better to vent about the upper management of the team. Nazr is another piece that should never have happened. I could write a book about many of the troubles with the Charlotte Bobcats. I won't, but I will say that Felton is the least of them.

Everything I have written in this post is my opinion unless I state otherwise. ;)

[sugarfree311]

I guess there's really just nothing more to say...Raymond will always have people defending him blindly for whatever reason. If you want to see this franchise settle for mediocrity or below, then keeping talking up your boy Ray. I don't post very often on here, but I responded with the stats on his finishing ability the other day after seeing someone post about how he was one of the best in the league at it - and that was after the Nets game where my frustration had reached its pinnacle.

To the average fan, Raymond can do no wrong. It's his teammates' faults for not shooting well enough, getting open, being in the right spot, etc. His teammates can't create for themselves well enough. His teammates hold on to the ball too long an Raymond has to bail them out. It's all BS. He is the problem on this team, and it's really disappointing having to watch this franchise go nowhere because of him. All of you want to see the team grow and evolve, but as long he is on the team, it's not going to happen. Does the team have other flaws? Absolutely - many of them. But as long as there's no solid play and steady leadership on the floor from the point guard position, nothing else will be solved.

This team has always been known for playing close games and coming up short. How many times have you heard our players say that the team fought hard but couldn't finish? Well you know what? A team's identity is directly related to the way the point guard plays. He has the ball in his hands more than anyone and sets the tone. Complain that he's being called a scapegoat all you want - you'd be overlooking facts. He needs to go, and I'd be willing to take much less in value for him just to rid the team of him. Perhaps it's harsh, but I can't stand watching him play for the team I love.

I know that many aren't going to agree with me, but I've watched way too much Bobcats basketball over the years to be persuaded any other way.

[Ghost Kat]

I'm not sure how but this quickly became a bash Felton post. He's probably the most debated player on the team at this point. We have the Felton Faithful that defend his every move and i want that from fans. Then you have the rest of us who see Felton hurting the team. Now in a way we are both right if you can admit it, But ignoring the other sides point only makes this debate continue.

IMO, which is my personal opinion, Felton needs to go. The offense as of now is DJ dribbling into front court, waits for Felton to come off a screen he gives Felton the ball and Felton either shoots or passes. God only knows if it work out in the Bobcats favor. Thats kinda the problem, If you give the ball to Gerlad you pretty much know what he'll do, DJ, Carroll, pretty much everyone is predictable but Felton. One night Felton scores 22 the next he's 2-12. It doesn't matter if Felton hustles or plays hard, Ryan Hollins hustles and plays hard but atleast he knows his limits. If you get paid millions of $$$$$ to play something my kids can play you better play hard. Felton is hurting this team, Period

[BobCatsFanInTx]

I guess there's really just nothing more to say...Raymond will always have people defending him blindly for whatever reason. If you want to see this franchise settle for mediocrity or below, then keeping talking up your boy Ray. I don't post very often on here, but I responded with the stats on his finishing ability the other day after seeing someone post about how he was one of the best in the league at it - and that was after the Nets game where my frustration had reached its pinnacle.

To the average fan, Raymond can do no wrong. It's his teammates' faults for not shooting well enough, getting open, being in the right spot, etc. His teammates can't create for themselves well enough. His teammates hold on to the ball too long an Raymond has to bail them out. It's all BS. He is the problem on this team, and it's really disappointing having to watch this franchise go nowhere because of him. All of you want to see the team grow and evolve, but as long he is on the team, it's not going to happen. Does the team have other flaws? Absolutely - many of them. But as long as there's no solid play and steady leadership on the floor from the point guard position, nothing else will be solved.

This team has always been known for playing close games and coming up short. How many times have you heard our players say that the team fought hard but couldn't finish? Well you know what? A team's identity is directly related to the way the point guard plays. He has the ball in his hands more than anyone and sets the tone. Complain that he's being called a scapegoat all you want - you'd be overlooking facts. He needs to go, and I'd be willing to take much less in value for him just to rid the team of him. Perhaps it's harsh, but I can't stand watching him play for the team I love.

I know that many aren't going to agree with me, but I've watched way too much Bobcats basketball over the years to be persuaded any other way.Surgarfree wrote: I guess there's really just nothing more to say...Raymond will always have people defending him blindly for whatever reason. If you want to see this franchise settle for mediocrity or below, then keeping talking up your boy Ray.

If you actually took the time to read my post beyond your desire to hate on one aspect of the team you would see that I am in no way an apologist for Raymond. What I have said is that Ray is far from the thorn in the teams side that is hurting our team. I tend to think Carroll and Morrison who have done little to nothing in the way of contributing to the team are more of a problem. Not too long ago people were talking about how much better Ray was playing. Now that the team continues to struggle y'all need a scapegoat. Ray is perfect for that because he plays a primary position on the team. In the last couple of games Raymond has basically had to carry the team. First game he was coming off a pretty good performance without the aid of DJ and the second game he was also carrying quite the load. DJ played but he was not healthy and really not involved.

If we want to attack Raymond that is all fine we can all line up and throw him under the bus but you better start throwing some other players under the bus as well. While your at it you can throw Larry Brown under the bus. Larry Brown is not having any more success than Sam Vincent did last year at this time.

Nobody said Raymond was blameless but to ignore the obvious and not see that as a team the struggles that they are facing are way more than one player. You can chose to vent and be angry at the way things have gone down this season that is understandable but if you want to place blame on one person you really need to reevaluate.

Listen, I am surprised how angry people are that the team lost to the Nets on the second game at home playing on back to back nights. Sure the game was within reach but to blame Raymond really means you did not watch the same game I did. No matter what decisions Raymond made in OT the team had to play defense to allow the flow of the game to stay in their favor. The Nets scored way too easily. Fatigue and inexperience will do that to some players.

I have never in any of my post made Felton out to be something he is not and yes there are times when Raymond makes poor choices but our Rookie Pg is not without fault. There is no one player responsible for the Bobcats struggles it is a team sport and one player no matter how lousy he/she may play can't decide a game alone. Even if the Bobcats were run better by Raymond, without any bench help this team will tire and lose a lot of games. They will especially fail on the second game of back to backs. So I will not continue to defend Raymond because I have basically said all there is to say.

WE MOST LIKELY WILL NOT MAKE THE PLAYOFFS THIS YEAR even if somehow we get rid of Raymond Felton. Many on this team are not the right fit for Larry Brown. Looking back, as much as I despised Sam Vincent he did not have near as good a pg situation as we have. Both our pg's this year have proven that they can play on the court at the same time and do quite well. That was not the case for Vincent last year. Vincent may not have been very competent last year but he was a rookie head coach. I've seen as I watch this season unfold that the team has many more issues than a head coach or pg problem.

Anyway, I am sure I will catch hell for somewhat defending Sam "Fine Ham Biscuit" Vincent. I can take it I am a man I'm 36!! Lol I will sum this all up by saying in my opinion people really need to relax and accept that this is a trial year. Larry Brown is seeing what he has and preparing to win with players who fit his coaching skills. As things stand we probably aren't going to get a major trade accomplished this year. The best thing is to look to our options after the season ends.

The above statements are my opinions unless I state otherwise. Peace and Joy and Happy Holidays!!

PS. The team has made a trade this year which means even Raymond has to get used to the makeup of the team. He has chemistry with Gerald most of the time but he does need to get used to Diaw and Bells style of play and how the team works together. Relax people the team has seemed to show it can compete with anybody, it is just a matter of maturing before they start winning some games. Will that mean that they make the playoffs? I doubt it myself but that does not mean I am right. Just enjoy watching this team compete and grow because overall the future looks bright. At least I see light at the end of the tunnel. ;)

[BobCatsFanInTx]

I'm not sure how but this quickly became a bash Felton post. He's probably the most debated player on the team at this point. We have the Felton Faithful that defend his every move and i want that from fans. Then you have the rest of us who see Felton hurting the team. Now in a way we are both right if you can admit it, But ignoring the other sides point only makes this debate continue.

IMO, which is my personal opinion, Felton needs to go. The offense as of now is DJ dribbling into front court, waits for Felton to come off a screen he gives Felton the ball and Felton either shoots or passes. God only knows if it work out in the Bobcats favor. Thats kinda the problem, If you give the ball to Gerlad you pretty much know what he'll do, DJ, Carroll, pretty much everyone is predictable but Felton. One night Felton scores 22 the next he's 2-12. It doesn't matter if Felton hustles or plays hard, Ryan Hollins hustles and plays hard but at least he knows his limits. If you get paid millions of $$$$$ to play something my kids can play you better play hard. Felton is hurting this team, PeriodAs I said, earlier in the year people were talking about how good Felton and DJ were on the court at the same time. Actually most of the venom that I am reading has happened as of late. Felton has become a convenient scapegoat. Felton can at least give SOMETHING to the team, Carroll, Morrison, May, Nazr and Shannon have been practically non existent. Carroll is highly overpaid and does not earn his dough. Morrison is a frail and weak minded individual. Nazr is good once in ten or more games. Shannon Brown does not play so I have no idea what he can or can't do. No matter how one looks at it, those are five players who are supposed to be counted on to produce some quality play off the bench and we aren't seeing it.

Felton has had to adjust to the trade and the change of the team. He was establishing some chemistry with JRich when the trade took place and him and DJ were working well together during that time. Can you fairly say that Singletary got enough minutes when DJ has been injured? When Larry decides to play the two pg line up for extended periods he needs to put his third pg in more as well.

I have been frustrated with Raymond in the past myself but imo his struggles this year have been as of late. Getting rid of Raymond is not going to give this team many more wins imo. Most likely on nights when the team stays healthy and DJ and Raymond are using their athleticism together the team will play well. Don't look for more than 40 wins this season regardless. IF THAT!! You may think 40 gets us in the playoffs but it may not. I would rather be in the lottery than to win enough to barely make the playoffs. Without a lottery pick or pieces to trade us into the lottery we will have few options next season.

The reason I would rather the Bobcats make the lottery than barely miss the playoffs is that the team will be pretty much the same next season if they can't get a top pick to fill a major need. In order for this team to make a playoff run some time Larry Brown will have to break up the core and rebuild.

The above statements are merely my opinions unless I state otherwise. ;)

[BIGCatBobcat]

I forget every time I check this thread to mention that I don't mean to sound like I am belittling numbers/stats/Hollinger's equations and formulas. I love numbers related to basketball but there are things we cannot forget when we talk about basketball: wins and losses most importantly and the aesthetics of the team. I call it the eyeball test, some call it entertainment factor but mostly it's how you watch it, in person mostly but on tv as well and how it makes you feel. In baseball everything is on one plane except exciting catches, NFL same thing (except when smitty goes up for a ball, thing of beauty) NHL, Soccer, Golf all of those are somewhat 2 dimensional. Basketball is up and down. The goal is a smaller goal than any of them except Golf, but that ball and equipment is proportional. The goal is parallel with the playing surface rather than perpendicular. It's elevated 10 feet off the floor. That's what makes basketball special and different and that's one of the main reasons I think that a) the players are more athletic than most b) if you're not super athletic but super specialized you can still make an impact c) it's far more spectacular to watch at any level.

Numbers yes because they are very telling and it's objective not subjective. Don't forget what wins mean, numbers help you get there but wins are the most important. Finally, don't forget the reaction and feelings elicited by watching.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

I forget every time I check this thread to mention that I don't mean to sound like I am belittling numbers/stats/Hollinger's equations and formulas. I love numbers related to basketball but there are things we cannot forget when we talk about basketball: wins and losses most importantly and the aesthetics of the team. I call it the eyeball test, some call it entertainment factor but mostly it's how you watch it, in person mostly but on tv as well and how it makes you feel. In baseball everything is on one plane except exciting catches, NFL same thing (except when smitty goes up for a ball, thing of beauty) NHL, Soccer, Golf all of those are somewhat 2 dimensional. Basketball is up and down. The goal is a smaller goal than any of them except Golf, but that ball and equipment is proportional. The goal is parallel with the playing surface rather than perpendicular. It's elevated 10 feet off the floor. That's what makes basketball special and different and that's one of the main reasons I think that a) the players are more athletic than most b) if you're not super athletic but super specialized you can still make an impact c) it's far more spectacular to watch at any level.

Numbers yes because they are very telling and it's objective not subjective. Don't forget what wins mean, numbers help you get there but wins are the most important. Finally, don't forget the reaction and feelings elicited by watching.Good post. Enjoyed your take on stats and sports.

[BIGCatBobcat]

Good post. Enjoyed your take on stats and sports.

I realized after I posted it that it was pretty philosophical and somewhat cheesy but I liked it. NBA is so different from all the majors. Like Hollinger and his PER, he's trying to come up with something like a slugging % and stuff, when basketball isnt about simple numbers and formulas. Looking at the game notes, box score and play by play from last nights game, Morrison looks like he had a worse game than Carroll but in my mind he didn't. He helped where Carroll hindered.