Further Reason for Optimism in Charlotte - QCH

[spectre]

http://www.queencityhoops.com/StrongLineups2009.php

Props to Brett (once again).

Hard to imagine how well the starting lineup of Mek/Boris/Crash/Bell/Felton have done together in net efficiency, and that's with Bell struggling early. On top of that, the 2nd unit of Boris, D.J., Emeka, Gerald, and Raymond is even better!


Now, if only the Bobcats could manage to only use 6 players for the game without diminishing results, we would really be getting somewhere.

As most of us know, it's the bench wherein lies the problem.

[krazyrumpshaker]

Interesting stuff. Didnt realize they played that well together. to be the #7 starting lineup in the league is amazing. Just need to get some bench to help out.

[JamieMcNeill]

As an athlete knows, when you are a starter and go into a game and get a lead for your team only to have the bench give it up, its the most frustrating thing possible. So even though we are angry about the bench imagine how the top 6 players feel. :(:(:(:(:(

[krazyrumpshaker]

As an athlete knows, when you are a starter and go into a game and get a lead for your team only to have the bench give it up, its the most frustrating thing possible. So even though we are angry about the bench imagine how the top 6 players feel. :(:(:(:(:(
I was always one of the bench players. didnt know i let the starters down so much :(

[Slam]

I need to understand this more, but can someone explain why our total possesions are 261 and the Celts are 1,421? Why the massive difference?

Would the fact that we play a very slow, deliberate pace scoring the lowest PPG in the NBA give the appearace that we are amongst the most effiecient?

[Ghost Kat]

I know LB's been coaching longer then I've been alive it seems but I don't think He's using this team very well. Having Felton play 40 plus mins when you have other guards on the bench. Our big's like Hollins and Ajinca even Nazr only touch the court for shoot arounds. LB expects them to play hard everynight then plays the starters the whole game....Someone is going to break down.

[coordinator0]

I need to understand this more, but can someone explain why our total possesions are 261 and the Celts are 1,421? Why the massive difference?

Would the fact that we play a very slow, deliberate pace scoring the lowest PPG in the NBA give the appearance that we are amongst the most efficient?

I think it's the total possessions of the lineup that is out there, and the Celtics lineup has had more because of Diaw not being here all season.

[krazyrumpshaker]

I think it's the total possessions of the lineup that is out there, and the Celtics lineup has had more because of Diaw not being here all season.
Exactly, the Celtics have probably used the same starting lineup for most of their games this season, while we have only had diaw, etc for what 10-15 games.

[Slam]

Exactly, the Celtics have probably used the same starting lineup for most of their games this season, while we have only had diaw, etc for what 10-15 games.
We've had 13 games with Diaw, they have had 36 with their line up (or x 2.77 more) so if I extrapolate 261 x 2.77 that only still gives me 722 possesions?

Not only that, but Miami is at 274 with Cook in the line up, but Cook has only started once all year??

I think these numbers are flawed, but will need to look into them more to fully understand them I think? I might not be reading the right?

[spectre]

We've had 13 games with Diaw, they have had 36 with their line up (or x 2.77 more) so if I extrapolate 261 x 2.77 that only still gives me 722 possesions?

Not only that, but Miami is at 274 with Cook in the line up, but Cook has only started once all year??

I think these numbers are flawed, but will need to look into them more to fully understand them I think? I might not be reading the right?

Ask Brett in the comments section on QCH. He'll explain what he's doing.

[spectre]

We've had 13 games with Diaw, they have had 36 with their line up (or x 2.77 more) so if I extrapolate 261 x 2.77 that only still gives me 722 possesions?

I don't think you can do it that way...don't you have to actually count how many possessions that particular group has had? That first group with Bell will have a lot less possessions together as a group than Boston's because Bell has missed games due to injury. Haven't checked, but most likely that starting group of Boston's has probably logged a lot of minutes the whole 13.

Same with Miami; Cook might not have started, but possibly when he did play he was with those players listed.

I think so anyway...as you know I'm no stats guru. Brett usually knows his shit though so I give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Dunk]

I wonder how that lineup looks replacing Felton with DJ. My guess would be fairly similar. A Felton trade would allow more bench depth. Not trying to start that thread up again...

We have a couple of very efficient lineups. I'd speculate that teams that have a larger combination of good lineups (a wide bell curve if you mapped them out) would probably have a higher win percentage. Our narrow spike = less wins.

Just tossing that out there.

[WAM9]

I get what he is saying...

"The Bobcats current starting 5 has one of the best net efficiencies in the league. Let it sink in - mass hysteria, I know.

The quintet of Emeka Okafor, Boris Diaw, Gerald Wallace, Raja Bell, and Raymond Felton does not seem overwhelming, but the numbers (thus far) paint a different picture - one of not just competence but competition (for a winning record...and more?). The table below shows the top 12 lineups in the NBA by Net Efficiency (with a minimum of 200 possessions played together)."

The table shows the top 12 NBA lineups, not starting lineups. It just happens that with the Bobcats, our best 5 lineup also happens to be our starters. In Miami's case, Cook, a player primarily off the bench, happens to be in their top lineup but not a starter. I can see how it is a little confusing but I'm pretty sure he has it correctly stated.

[WAM9]

We've had 13 games with Diaw, they have had 36 with their line up (or x 2.77 more) so if I extrapolate 261 x 2.77 that only still gives me 722 possesions?

Not only that, but Miami is at 274 with Cook in the line up, but Cook has only started once all year??

I think these numbers are flawed, but will need to look into them more to fully understand them I think? I might not be reading the right?


We have played 13 games with Diaw, but Bell has played in only 8 of those. So a number that would get us closer would be 4.5 times more (36/eight). So 261 x 4.5 = 1175.

1175 possesions sure seem closer to the right number (if the Diaw and Bell had been here the entire season and been healthy).

[JamieMcNeill]

I was always one of the bench players. didnt know i let the starters down so much :(

ive been both so i know the feeling.