View Full Version : The Official James Harden Thread
Post all things relating to this player here.
SWedd523
01-10-2009, 02:00 PM
Post all things relating to this player here.
My clear second choice if Griffin doesn't land in our laps. Guys, you should really start to look into this kid, he's going to be special
coordinator0
01-12-2009, 09:00 PM
My clear second choice if Griffin doesn't land in our laps. Guys, you should really start to look into this kid, he's going to be special
I'm with you on that one, although we will probably have to be picking pretty high to land him too.
SWedd523
01-13-2009, 05:24 PM
It just sucks because he's our answer at the 2 spot. Big, plays tough, good defensively, scores in the rhythm of the game, team player...
I wish we had 2 top picks like OKC had a couple of years ago to throw on Griffin and Harden. If we could do that, we'd be set for the future combined with DJ and Ajinca
An obvious feel of the game allows Harden to score and impact the game in a number of ways. Equally apt at driving the lane as he is stroking the long ball (he shoots and hits NBA length 3's regularly) means that he is a handful for any defense. When he is not scoring, he is creating for others or crashing the boards. While he might not have the greatest lateral movement, he shows a great understanding and anticipation which makes him a great defender - especially when it comes to picking off passes.
A natural left hander but obviously ampidexterous allows him to drive in both directions and his tight handle works both ways.
It will be interesting to see what he measures out at. If he is 6'4" will it effect his draft stock? He looks to be more 6'5"/6'6" - but what the hell do I know!! He is long though so I'll bet he has a big wing span and reach. While he's not considered athletic, I'll bet money he surprises a lot of people at the draft camp with something like a 32 inch standing and a 38 or so inch max vert. I think he's one of those deceptive types.
The more I watch Harden (seen him 7 times) the more and more I like him, especially considering our current need. He's mature, knows the game and is very well rounded. While watching him I often think that he hasn't done much only to check the box score to see he's had a 25/8/5 type game which tells me he is consistent over the whole course of the game.
He wears a T under his jersey - which is a pity. I'd like to be able to see his shoulders and arms to get a better understanding of his body type.
He reminds me a lot of Joe Johnson.
I wish we had 2 top picks like OKC had a couple of years ago to throw on Griffin and Harden. If we could do that, we'd be set for the future combined with DJ and Ajinca
Good God would that ever make up for a few bad drafts!!
SWedd523
01-13-2009, 08:09 PM
While he might not have the greatest lateral movement
While he's not considered athletic
He wears a T under his jersey - which is a pity. I'd like to be able to see his shoulders and arms to get a better understanding of his body type.
I can tell you right now, he has a soft body. Usually when guys wear T's it's because they're skinny or overweight. He's always been like that and actually didn't play much in high school because he was "fluffy"
He grew out of it though because he put on like 5 inches so that helps
SWedd523
01-13-2009, 08:22 PM
He's the perfect guy for our team right now. I'd say it's certifiable that I have a hard-on for Hard-en. Matter Fact I might just call him James Hardon from now on:biggrin:
I like that you said he surprises you with his stats. That's what I've been saying about him for awhile now. He'll get great stats but you don't notice because he's such a team player. He'll go out and get assists and crash, but he'll also get his points. Exactly what LB wants?!
About the draft thing, what would you be willing to give up in order to have, I'm guessing, the top 2 picks?
I can tell you right now, he has a soft body. Usually when guys wear T's it's because they're skinny or overweight. He's always been like that and actually didn't play much in high school because he was "fluffy"
He grew out of it though because he put on like 5 inches so that helps
But I'm wondering if he has the body type that can add shape and definition? You can usually tell by looking at shoulders and triceps.
So long as he has some thickness to him, which his core has for sure, I think he'll be fine. Plus, he uses his body really well to absorb and rub off guys when he drives.
He does look slobbish out there though with the T, the baggy clothes and the beard!
Exactly what LB wants?!
I'd say so.
About the draft thing, what would you be willing to give up in order to have, I'm guessing, the top 2 picks
Don't know. Have to wait until the draft lottery is done and we know where we are picking and others are picking. I'll worry about that stuff then.
SWedd523
01-13-2009, 08:44 PM
But I'm wondering if he has the body type that can add shape and definition? You can usually tell by looking at shoulders and triceps.
So long as he has some thickness to him, which his core has for sure, I think he'll be fine. Plus, he uses his body really well to absorb and rub off guys when he drives.
He does look slobbish out there though with the T, the baggy clothes and the beard!
He's never gonna be cut and defined, that's just his body type. He's a bigger dude, but he's plenty strong to carry it, kind of like Melo.
He plays like Eric Gordon, but with more size and more polish.
JamieMcNeill
01-14-2009, 11:41 PM
He's never gonna be cut and defined, that's just his body type. He's a bigger dude, but he's plenty strong to carry it, kind of like Melo.
He plays like Eric Gordon, but with more size and more polish.
i see Gordon as fluffy also, so that helps me visualize
He plays like Eric Gordon, but with more size and more polish.
From what I have seen, Eric Gordon attacks the rim and drives a lot more.
It's like he could make his living at the FT line where as Harden doesn't mix it up insdie as much.
One thing that just hit me - I don't think I have ever seen Harden score in the post with his back to the basket. Heck, I don't think I have ever seen him post up!!
Maybe that's a size thing?
ohara831
01-16-2009, 08:23 AM
Not good last night. Took on DeRozan and USC. He scored only 4 while DeRozan dropped 22 on ASU.
Not good last night. Took on DeRozan and USC. He scored only 4 while DeRozan dropped 22 on ASU.
I didn't get to see the game, but I read about it this morning and it sounds like Hackett did an outstanding job on him. 4 is a career low for Harden!
1st bad game all season, can't hold that against him.
Arizona State take on UCLA Saturday at 3:45pm on CBS.
Be interesting to see how Harden bounces back after a poor game aginst USC going up against two very good defenders in Collison and Holiday.
SWedd523
01-17-2009, 04:37 PM
Halftime of the ASU/UCLA game. Harden has 5 points and 3 fouls (2 offensive). He's constantly double and sometimes triple teamed. He's handling the pressure okay and is able to use his handles to get to the rim. He has a nice spin move.
He missed two points on a drive when the shot clock ran out and missed two more on a close offensive foul. He looks like an NBA player to me
Halftime of the ASU/UCLA game. Harden has 5 points and 3 fouls (2 offensive). He's constantly double and sometimes triple teamed. He's handling the pressure okay and is able to use his handles to get to the rim. He has a nice spin move.
He missed two points on a drive when the shot clock ran out and missed two more on a close offensive foul. He looks like an NBA player to me
I thought that both, one in particular, of those offensive fouls he was called for were BS.
Hit those two big FT's with 20 secs to go to send it to OT which was good to see.
I liked the passion he showed today (the thumping the chest and yelling out etc). I love that power step he has to get to the rim.
Would like to see two things:
1. A mid range game - mainly a pull up mid range J off the dribble.
2. A post up move - like the one that Swish had when he's back his defender down and shoot the turn around fade.
There is a LOT to like about Harden though and the more I see him the more I like plus the more and more I see him the more and more I think of Joe Johnson V.2
ohara831
01-17-2009, 07:08 PM
Finished with 24 in a win over UCLA. Must have had a very solid good 2nd half!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=FordDraftWatch-090123
1. James Harden (http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&playerId=19221), So., Arizona State
Harden doesn't jump out as an elite prospect when you first see him. A little undersized at the 2, he's not a particularly explosive or quick athlete. And there's nothing flashy about his game. However, he has a certain old-school swagger about him that has many NBA executives calling him the second-best prospect in the draft.
Harden is a big-time scorer with NBA strength and a terrific basketball IQ, and has been super-productive as both a freshman and a sophomore. While he doesn't appear to have the upside of many of the younger athletes on the list, right now he looks like a lock for a top-five pick in the draft.
SWedd523
01-23-2009, 05:15 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=FordDraftWatch-090123
That's my boy!
Got to tell you Swedd, I'm getting VERY attached to Harden. I've seen him about 10 times and I've always liked him, but over the last 2 or 3 weeks I'm liking him more and more and more and can tell that I am going to be upset we will miss out on him.
Of course, I want the better record/playoff spot more, but man, James is really nice to watch and would fit in super well with us.
Going out on a limb now......................I think I've moved him above Blake on my B'Cats draft board.
coordinator0
01-23-2009, 09:58 PM
Got to tell you Swedd, I'm getting VERY attached to Harden. I've seen him about 10 times and I've always liked him, but over the last 2 or 3 weeks I'm liking him more and more and more and can tell that I am going to be upset we will miss out on him.
Of course, I want the better record/playoff spot more, but man, James is really nice to watch and would fit in super well with us.
Going out on a limb now......................I think I've moved him above Blake on my B'Cats draft board.
I've had him above Griffin for a while now. Blake's knees worry me, and we may actually be set at the big-man position. Harden seems like the safest pick right now.
SWedd523
01-23-2009, 11:19 PM
Got to tell you Swedd, I'm getting VERY attached to Harden. I've seen him about 10 times and I've always liked him, but over the last 2 or 3 weeks I'm liking him more and more and more and can tell that I am going to be upset we will miss out on him.
Of course, I want the better record/playoff spot more, but man, James is really nice to watch and would fit in super well with us.
Going out on a limb now......................I think I've moved him above Blake on my B'Cats draft board.
I still look at Griffin like Amare Jr. and you just can't pass on that no matter. Harden would be my choice if he wasn't on the board or if we kept Diaw for the long haul. Harden is my favorite player without a doubt though
Watched Harden again today playing against Washington.
Wasn't one of his most dominate games, but still managed to fill the sheet with 15/4/5/3.
Best thing (for me at least) about him today was for the 1st time that I have ever seen, he didn't wear anything under his jersey so I got a good look at his upper body.
It was better than I had expected. I mean, the guy is never going to be Corey Maggette like, but there is great shape there to work with. He has really nice, big round shoulders and some good pec definition. He also has very long triceps which would easily shape out well. No doubt all reasons he is able to finish so well with contact.
It's easy to see that with a little time in an NBA gym with NBA trainers on an NBA schedule he could easily sculpt his upper body into something very compact and powerful.
ohara831
01-31-2009, 09:02 PM
We have to face reality. Even without Crash, we are going to be somewhere in the #7-#10 range for a pick. Unless the Ping Pong Gods are with us, we have no shot at him. Most likely he comes off the Boards at #3 following Griffin and Rubio. IF we got lucky and made it into the Top 3 by the Ping Pong balls, then we may all have our wish. We deserve it though; we do deserve a break. One day, it must happen.
SWedd523
02-01-2009, 12:16 PM
We have to face reality. Even without Crash, we are going to be somewhere in the #7-#10 range for a pick. Unless the Ping Pong Gods are with us, we have no shot at him. Most likely he comes off the Boards at #3 following Griffin and Rubio. IF we got lucky and made it into the Top 3 by the Ping Pong balls, then we may all have our wish. We deserve it though; we do deserve a break. One day, it must happen.
This is something that's been eating at me for awhile now.
Assuming Rubio enters this draft despite his contract obligations, but Harden goes second behind Griffin and we have the 3rd pick. Do we take Rubio even if we have DJ? Do we trade? Pick Thabeet?
(I think Rubio is better than DJ and would much rather have him instead)
This is something that's been eating at me for awhile now.
Assuming Rubio enters this draft despite his contract obligations, but Harden goes second behind Griffin and we have the 3rd pick. Do we take Rubio even if we have DJ? Do we trade? Pick Thabeet?
(I think Rubio is better than DJ and would much rather have him instead)
Trade either Felton or Augustin (which ever the other team wants) and what ever it takes to get the 2nd pick as well then walk away from the draft with both Harden and Rubio.
Me greeeeeeeeeeeedddddddddyyyyyyyyyy!!
SWedd523
02-02-2009, 08:04 PM
Trade either Felton or Augustin (which ever the other team wants) and what ever it takes to get the 2nd pick as well then walk away from the draft with both Harden and Rubio.
Me greeeeeeeeeeeedddddddddyyyyyyyyyy!!
But would they take Felton or Augustin over Harden?
But would they take Felton or Augustin over Harden?
Who knows? It's all too hard to predict until the lotto positions have been confirmed and we know who's staying in the draft and who is out.
He's dropped off a little over the past few weeks while others (BJ Mullins, Aminu, Hill, Thabeet, Holiday etc) have climbed.
Any chance he drops...................like all he way to us?
SWedd523
02-08-2009, 10:25 AM
He's dropped off a little over the past few weeks while others (BJ Mullins, Aminu, Hill, Thabeet, Holiday etc) have climbed.
Any chance he drops...................like all he way to us?
If his team keeps playing subpar and they either don't make the tournament or they get booted in the 1st or 2nd round... he'll drop. Hopefully right in our laps :)
JamieMcNeill
02-08-2009, 10:53 AM
If his team keeps playing subpar and they either don't make the tournament or they get booted in the 1st or 2nd round... he'll drop. Hopefully right in our laps :)
We can dream cant we?
Pretty cool game tonight at 9:00pm as ASU play UCLA which means Harden Vs Holiday.
Pretty good game by Harden last night.
15 points (5/8, 1/1, 4/6 shooting), 7 boards, 11 assists (carrer high) and 1 block.
Only problem was that he had 8 turn overs though. His handle tends to be a little loose at times and he pounds the ball a little or try's to do a little too much with it which results in him turning it over or getting into trouble.
In saying that, he had some amazing moements with the ball in his hands. Some real "Boris Diaw" type moments with no look passes or behind the back wrap arounds.
Some people have questions about his size and athletic ability: I wouldn't be at all surprised if Harden puts up something like a 34" standing and 39" max vert and turns some heads at the predraft combine while measuresing out at around 6'4 1/2" without and 6'5 1/2" with shoes with a nice, long wing span of around 6'9" and standing reach of around 8'8"
Plus, he is SO good on D.
SWedd523
02-13-2009, 05:46 PM
I think a lot of him "selfishness" stems from not having a very good team at all...
Put him on a real NBA team and watch him blossom. He's deceptively athletic too. The way you describe him, and his body style, really reminds me of Chauncey Billups (without the turnovers)
ohara831
02-23-2009, 07:53 AM
18 pts 9 reb 5 assists in the win over Arizona yesterday. Solid, but not outstanding.
I drool every time I watch Harden play - and last night was no exception. He was just amazing last night. He's every where, he controls the game and his team. If they counted "hockey assists" in basketball, he'd have 20 assists a game.
His decision making and ability to find and open man is top shelf. Plus he is young for his draft class.
That double hand throw down last night was SWEET too. I'm telling you, he'll surprise a LOT of peeps at the combine with his results.
If we are in the lotto, come on lotto Gods. Can't you just shine down on us once? We've taken our fair share of licks. We need this kid.
SWedd523
02-23-2009, 06:41 PM
I drool every time I watch Harden play - and last night was no exception. He was just amazing last night. He's every where, he controls the game and his team. If they counted "hockey assists" in basketball, he'd have 20 assists a game.
His decision making and ability to find and open man is top shelf. Plus he is young for his draft class.
That double hand throw down last night was SWEET too. I'm telling you, he'll surprise a LOT of peeps at the combine with his results.
If we are in the lotto, come on lotto Gods. Can't you just shine down on us once? We've taken our fair share of licks. We need this kid.
He's one of those guys that you see and you're like, "He's not that athletic.." Then rises up and tomahawks it on two guys and you're like, "Damn! He just yammed on them!"
Gotta love a big dude that's athletic! Dear Lord, please send us Harden :cool:
ohara831
02-27-2009, 07:28 AM
ASU lost last night, but Harden was solid with19 pts 5 reb and 4 assists. Stood out on a night when Memphis's Evans and Wake's Teague failed to step up.
I didn't see last nights game, but looking at the stats he didn't shoot well (7/19 from the floor for 36% and 1/5 from down town). Plus he had 5 turn overs and fouled out.
Slip down the draft board Jimmy boy, slip away........
:biggrin:
SWedd523
03-14-2009, 09:44 PM
10/4/8/2 in Arizona State's final loss to USC
BETCATS
03-14-2009, 09:53 PM
this guy is still a beast though...
Sort of pooped the bed again today against Syracuse.
10pts (2/10, 0/5, 6/8)
6 boards
5 assists
2 steal
0 block
1 turn overs
Didn't really look to impose his will until about mid way through the 2nd half. Syracuse played a 2/3 and bogged in around him (he played the high post a lot) but he didn't really try to drive through it too often.
He's still a stud. 20/5 and 4 on the season says so!!
or maybe he just disappears in big games...like the Julius Peppers us Charlotte area sports fans are familiar with.
I watched him in the Pac-10 and NCAA tourneys, and I wasnt impressed. And you can't say the Pac-10 was a tough conference.
SWedd523
03-22-2009, 09:00 PM
or maybe he just disappears in big games...like the Julius Peppers us Charlotte area sports fans are familiar with.
I watched him in the Pac-10 and NCAA tourneys, and I wasnt impressed. And you can't say the Pac-10 was a tough conference.
Other than our RB duo, Julius Peppers is by far the best player we have on the Panthers. Other than Jason Taylor, he's been the most consistent defensive lineman in the League, and he had a lot to do with our Super Bowl run and our great defense these past few years
Harden isn't going to put up that kind of production against a great defensive team double/triple teaming him the entire game when there is basically no other offensive help. It doesn't matter how good you are if you don't have somebody that can hit a shot if you pass it to them. Arizona State's year wouldn't have been anywhere near as good as it was if it wasn't for Harden
Other than our RB duo, Julius Peppers is by far the best player we have on the Panthers. Other than Jason Taylor, he's been the most consistent defensive lineman in the League, and he had a lot to do with our Super Bowl run and our great defense these past few years
Harden isn't going to put up that kind of production against a great defensive team double/triple teaming him the entire game when there is basically no other offensive help. It doesn't matter how good you are if you don't have somebody that can hit a shot if you pass it to them. Arizona State's year wouldn't have been anywhere near as good as it was if it wasn't for Harden
sounds just like peppers, hes reat when hes isolated, but hes nothing when pressured...pep was nothing in the super bowl, or in the nfc championship in 05, or against the cards this year. or like mek, he gets his numbers off the weak guys...
SWedd523
03-23-2009, 01:06 AM
sounds just like peppers, hes reat when hes isolated, but hes nothing when pressured...pep was nothing in the super bowl, or in the nfc championship in 05, or against the cards this year. or like mek, he gets his numbers off the weak guys...
Have you ever played competitive basketball or football? I'm pretty sure your perception would change if you were in their position. Nobody is going to be amazing with 3 people on him at all times.
JamieMcNeill
03-23-2009, 09:06 AM
Have you ever played competitive basketball or football? I'm pretty sure your perception would change if you were in their position. Nobody is going to be amazing with 3 people on him at all times.
:yeahthat:
Nobody is going to be amazing with 3 people on him at all times.
Unless those three on him are a blonde, a brunette and a red head. Then said person would be amazing!!
;)
SWedd523
03-23-2009, 03:58 PM
Unless those three on him are a blonde, a brunette and a red head. Then said person would be amazing!!
;)
maybe because of their position. Their ability to perform amazing, however, is unlikely. unless..... ;)
Have you ever played competitive basketball or football? I'm pretty sure your perception would change if you were in their position. Nobody is going to be amazing with 3 people on him at all times.
yes, both, I even played Pep's position for 5 years before they moved me to O-Line only so I can tell you that he shoulda been able to do more ;)
As for Harden, he had 3 around him, but not swarming him and he had enough open looks to have 20 pts, but he just wasnt there...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=TourneyWatch-090323
Harden has been far and away the biggest disappointment in the tournament. Known as one of the best and most reliable scorers in college basketball, he delivered two huge duds for ASU. He scored just nine points on 1-for-8 shooting versus Temple and followed that up with 10 points on 2-for-10 shooting against Syracuse. It's too early to tell how this will affect Harden's stock, but we'll be watching closely.
He was also inconsistent in Pac-10 play this season and some scouts are concerned that he lacks the explosive athleticism to create his own shot in the pros. Harden has usually overcome his physical limitations with craftiness, but it seems like more defenses are figuring out how to stop him.
SWedd523
03-24-2009, 07:27 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=TourneyWatch-090323
Hell be fine once he gets to the NBA and plays on a semi-competent team (Bobcats anyone? :cool:)
Hell be fine once he gets to the NBA and plays on a semi-competent team (Bobcats anyone? :cool:)
Totally the argument I'm having at RGM about him. So many are dropping off his band wagon now, which is some what understandable because he's had a poor month, but all of a sudden people are saying he can't do this and he can't do that and he will struggle in the NBA.
I say, stick him on a team where he doesn't have to do EVERYTHING like he does at ASU, surround him with NBA players with NBA IQ's and NBA game and he's going to shine because he can make others look good while looking good himself.
People say he can't shoot off a screen? I don't think he ever got to come off a screen while I watched him at ASU because he generally had the ball in his hands trying to make his shambles of a team tick!!
Does anyone on RGM realize he has an idiot for a coach? Who has no clue how to run a team and that w/o Harden they wouldnt be there?
While I still am worried about his abilities in big games, or maybe it was his lack of stamina, I don't know, I DO know that he has proven to have the ability to play at the highest level. Maybe not like Ray Allen or J-Rich, but well enough for us...
SWedd523
03-24-2009, 10:45 PM
Does anyone on RGM realize he has an idiot for a coach? Who has no clue how to run a team and that w/o Harden they wouldnt be there?
While I still am worried about his abilities in big games, or maybe it was his lack of stamina, I don't know, I DO know that he has proven to have the ability to play at the highest level. Maybe not like Ray Allen or J-Rich, but well enough for us...
Herb Sendek is hardly an idiot of a coach. He brought NC State out of the garbage and into respectability and did a damn good job considering most of the good players in the area go to other ACC programs.
You really do underestimate his athleticism, which is understandable because everybody aside from me and Slam seem to think he's fat and out of shape. Harden is solid, tough and is a MAN. No skinny, bare bones, getting pushed around punk. Don't sleep on Harden. Give him a real team and he'll shine.
And I'd hardly say Ray Allen and J-Rich play at the highest level but that's a debate for another time...
Herb Sendek is hardly an idiot of a coach. He brought NC State out of the garbage and into respectability and did a damn good job considering most of the good players in the area go to other ACC programs.
recruiter: good
coach: bad
there is a reason he left NC State under fire from the fans, and its not anything off-court :rolleyes:
He had a losing record in the ACC, and a God-awful record against top RPI schools...like 30-90 or something
You really do underestimate his athleticism, which is understandable because everybody aside from me and Slam seem to think he's fat and out of shape. Harden is solid, tough and is a MAN. No skinny, bare bones, getting pushed around punk. Don't sleep on Harden. Give him a real team and he'll shine.
When I said stamina I meant the long haul of a season catching up to him, not in game. He played better in the second half of both games, which totally defeats any arguement of out of shape...
And I'd hardly say Ray Allen and J-Rich play at the highest level but that's a debate for another time...
Have you watched them play?
J-Rich WAS Golden State along with the Baron...and they together led them to the playoffs...and upset the mavs. 20+ ppg 3 times
Ray Allen led Seattle to the Conferences in 04-05 and helped Cassell and Glenn Robinson take Milwaukee to the playoffs in 01...9 time all star, 20+ ppg 8 times
how is that not the highest level? lol
SWedd523
03-24-2009, 11:13 PM
recruiter: good
coach: bad
there is a reason he left NC State under fire from the fans, and its not anything off-court :rolleyes:
He had a losing record in the ACC, and a God-awful record against top RPI schools...like 30-90 or something
It's called ACC fans in general. There's also a reason why most coaches in the ACC outside of Duke and UNC don't last long. The conference as a whole is tough, but they don't all make it above .500. And I wonder how many of those losses came against his own conference?
Have you watched them play?
J-Rich WAS Golden State along with the Baron...and they together led them to the playoffs...and upset the mavs. 20+ ppg 3 times
Ray Allen led Seattle to the Conferences in 04-05 and helped Cassell and Glenn Robinson take Milwaukee to the playoffs in 01...9 time all star, 20+ ppg 8 times
how is that not the highest level? lol
Yes, I've watched both of them play. Richardson scores 20 a game, does nothing else. Ray is the sweetest shooter in the NBA currently, but that doesn't make him top 5.
NBA players of course are at the highest level. But I like to reserve the "highest level" for the likes of LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Paul, Deron, Duncan, Dwight, and a couple others. Would you put J-Rich anywhere near that list? Would you put Ray in that list? Definitely not.
It's called ACC fans in general. There's also a reason why most coaches in the ACC outside of Duke and UNC don't last long. The conference as a whole is tough, but they don't all make it above .500. And I wonder how many of those losses came against his own conference?
Skip Prosser wasn't in any danger before he had his heart attack...Hewitt just went 12-18 and he's fine and called a good coach by the few GT fans I know. Seth Greenberg is NIT bound for the near future and I don't hear him getting the ax. Gary Williams has been to the Elite Eight twice in his 30 year career as a Head Coach, but he's called one of the ACC's future Hall of Famers in some circles. See what I'm saying?
Yes, I've watched both of them play. Richardson scores 20 a game, does nothing else. Ray is the sweetest shooter in the NBA currently, but that doesn't make him top 5.
NBA players of course are at the highest level. But I like to reserve the "highest level" for the likes of LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Paul, Deron, Duncan, Dwight, and a couple others. Would you put J-Rich anywhere near that list? Would you put Ray in that list? Definitely not.
Wouldnt put Deron over Ray, but other than that yeah. And Harden sin't going anywhere near them either
SWedd523
03-25-2009, 12:18 AM
Skip Prosser wasn't in any danger before he had his heart attack...Hewitt just went 12-18 and he's fine and called a good coach by the few GT fans I know. Seth Greenberg is NIT bound for the near future and I don't hear him getting the ax. Gary Williams has been to the Elite Eight twice in his 30 year career as a Head Coach, but he's called one of the ACC's future Hall of Famers in some circles. See what I'm saying?
Wouldnt put Deron over Ray, but other than that yeah. And Harden sin't going anywhere near them either
Hewitt's job has been in jeopardy for years and he's about to get the axe now. Skip Prosser brought Wake to prominence, Greenberg has been there for 6 years and has brought success with him. I guarantee if his teams underperform for a couple more years, he'll be gone. Williams has been on the exit for a couple of years now and he probably would've been fired if they didn't make the tournament, even though he's had the most success outside of a Duke or UNC setting. See what I'm saying?
And I also think it's a little early to say whether or not Harden will be in that class?
Hewitt's job has been in jeopardy for years and he's about to get the axe now. Skip Prosser brought Wake to prominence, Greenberg has been there for 6 years and has brought success with him. I guarantee if his teams underperform for a couple more years, he'll be gone. Williams has been on the exit for a couple of years now and he probably would've been fired if they didn't make the tournament, even though he's had the most success outside of a Duke or UNC setting. See what I'm saying?
Williams got Maryland a title, so Prosser bringing Wake to prominence shouldnt be a free pass...
Hewitt may well get canned, I just havent heard any complaints about him from GT fans, I was saying that to your "thats just the nature of the ACC fan"
And I also think it's a little early to say whether or not Harden will be in that class?
Maybe, but only Kobe out of those you said wasnt a lock/top 5 pick out of college...
Harden was one of the big losers suffering two damaging tourney performances with so much at stake. In two games he shot a combined 3-18 (16%) giving critics fuel for the fire regarding his NBA deficiencies.
Against Syracuse, he was far too unassertive for the team leader and star that the Sun Devils rely on him to be. He's highly unselfish, allowing the game to come to him, but against Syracuse's collapsing zone, Harden needed to force the action sooner and take over.
The biggest knocks against Harden from NBA scouts are the fact that he struggles to go right, and his lack of quickness and ability to score against elite level athletes.
Harden is still high on many scout's lists although some feel he's fallen into the 6-12 range as opposed to a top 5 pick as he's currently projected on our mock draft.
It should be noted that Arizona State's talent outside of Harden and Jeff Pendergraph was virtually nonexistent. That lack of talent surrounding them caught up with them as they ran into a well oiled machine in Syracuse with 8 quality D1 players.
Harden remains an intriguing prospect due to his off the charts intangibles and team focus, although sexier picks such as Demar Derozan, Brandon Jennings, Earl Clark, and even Gerald Henderson could potentially overtake him.
Harden has made comments to the effect that he's still undecided about entering this year, but most scouts and insiders feel that was just an initial reaction and that it's a foregone conclusion that he will enter the draft this year. zdasdasdasda
SWedd523
03-27-2009, 03:59 PM
zdasdasdasda
YES! KEEP DROPPING JAMES! KEEEEEP DROPPPPPING!!!
YES! KEEP DROPPING JAMES! KEEEEEP DROPPPPPING!!!
That was actually because of the 10 character thing!!
But, is James can drop down low enough that we can trade up to get him using our pick and what ever, I'd be thrilled!!
As long as Raja doesnt get pissed, its fine by me...he beats steph, alothough I'm prety sure the 'Cats have a hard on for Steph....
As long as Raja doesnt get pissed, its fine by me...he beats steph, alothough I'm prety sure the 'Cats have a hard on for Steph....
I wouldn't give a toss about Raja's feelings!! It's not like he is a long term core piece for the team who we are building around.
I wouldn't give a toss about Raja's feelings!! It's not like he is a long term core piece for the team who we are building around.
Um, he plays the best defense of anyone n the team, better than Gerald
He knows LBs system.
He knows the refs by first name :biggrin:)
He is a major peice of this team...
coordinator0
03-27-2009, 06:32 PM
Um, he plays the best defense of anyone n the team, better than Gerald
He knows LBs system.
He knows the refs by first name :biggrin:)
He is a major peice of this team...
That will be in his last year next year and he may not want to come back to CHA if we are still losing. Harden is > Bell, and it's not even close.
SWedd523
03-27-2009, 07:56 PM
That was actually because of the 10 character thing!!
I know haha I couldn't quote your quote so I had to use something :g:
And teej: I believe he was saying that because Raja won't be around long after next year if he even stays that long. He's 32--the point where his production is going to decrease tremendously. Slam didn't say he didn't like Bell, he said he's not a piece that we're building around for the future. He's here to groom the crop of youngsters we have coming up.
I know we arent building around Raja, but as long as he can play, and as long as LB is coach, the job is his, like it or not.
Facts of LB's coaching style. Anti-rookie, pro-LB style player who knows what he's doing in the system...to the point of being detrimental to the team (see DJ Augustin/Gana Diop)
SWedd523
03-28-2009, 10:23 AM
I know we arent building around Raja, but as long as he can play, and as long as LB is coach, the job is his, like it or not.
Facts of LB's coaching style. Anti-rookie, pro-LB style player who knows what he's doing in the system...to the point of being detrimental to the team (see DJ Augustin/Gana Diop)
Nobody was disagreeing with that?
I know we arent building around Raja, but as long as he can play, and as long as LB is coach, the job is his, like it or not.
No, it's not.
Facts of LB's coaching style. Anti-rookie, pro-LB style player who knows what he's doing in the system...to the point of being detrimental to the team (see DJ Augustin/Gana Diop)
Prove that LB is anti rookie.
Prove that LB is anti rookie.
DJ's total lack of playing time, same with Cartier, Lexy, and Sean
NYC with David Lee and Nate Robinson not playing very much/near what they could have.
Detroit with Carlos Delfino and Darko
Philly with Speedy Claxton (to a point), Samuel Dalembert, Raja, Larry Hughes (only started ONE game), and other minor players
Indy with Erick Dampier, Travis Best, Antonio Davis
Thats just his last 5 jobs, I don't have all day :p
All players who proved they could contribute more than someone higher on the depth chart but weren't allowed to because of a cetain someone's hierarchy of veteraness...which is why the job will still be Raja's, Slam. Like it or not. Which I dont.
Don't want to derail this thread, because it's about James Harden, not about LB's coaching, but:
DJ's total lack of playing time, same with Cartier, Lexy, and Sean
Think about what you are saying here. Do you really expect DJ to play in front of a 4 year vet in Raymond, Bling to play in front of Crash, Lexy to play in front of Boris and Sean to play in front of anyone?
The same can be said for all the players you listed. It's not like any of them were top picks expected to come in and play straight away. The only one close is Darko and he was drafted by a championship quality team. Did you expect Darko to get mins over Sheed or Big Ben?
Raja Bell is our SG starter until a better option comes along.
We draft a guy like James Harden and Raja will be the back up SG by the end of the season.
Your stance was you would ONLY draft Harden "as long as Raja doesnt get pissed". I say who gives a rats arse if Raja was pissed. If we have the chance to improve our team buy upgrading a position, then we do it without a 2nd thought - especially when it comes to a guy who is in his 30's and while he is great for us, is far from a building block or long term plans.
Harden would be an AMAZING draft option for us. It's just as easy as that.
G-Force for MVP
03-28-2009, 05:15 PM
i def want harden if he is available, he will start off backing up raja and gradually work into the starting lineup
SWedd523
03-28-2009, 05:28 PM
I could honestly see him and Raja splitting time beautifully.
Ray and Harden together (above average defensive PG, above average scoring SG) and DJ and Raja (same but role reversed)
My only hesitation with Harden, and it's a small'ish one, is that if he was on our team we'd need him to know that he can take over a game and we'd need him to do it. It's great that he is unselfish, but it's almost to a point of fault.
We need a "star". I honestly think that Harden could be that star, he just needs to think it himself.
We already have one Boris, we don't need two.
SWedd523
03-28-2009, 06:38 PM
My only hesitation with Harden, and it's a small'ish one, is that if he was on our team we'd need him to know that he can take over a game and we'd need him to do it. It's great that he is unselfish, but it's almost to a point of fault.
We need a "star". I honestly think that Harden could be that star, he just needs to think it himself.
We already have one Boris, we don't need two.
Do you think he has the killer instinct?
Do you think he has the killer instinct?
I think that he has the ability to be a killer - it's just a matter of someone finding a key to that lock.
Know what I mean?
I think that LB could pick that lock.
SWedd523
03-28-2009, 10:23 PM
I think that he has the ability to be a killer - it's just a matter of someone finding a key to that lock.
Know what I mean?
I think that LB could pick that lock.
yeah I know what you mean. I personally think he has the ability. I was just wondering what you thought :cool:
yeah I know what you mean. I personally think he has the ability. I was just wondering what you thought :cool:
I really see a lot of similaraties between him and Boris - and with that, maybe the same frustrations?
Either way, I see Harden, as a 19 year old near perfect SG prospect who hasn't even come close to scratching the surface.
As amazing as Blake as been, JH is still #1 on my Bobcats board.
SWedd523
03-28-2009, 10:55 PM
I really see a lot of similaraties between him and Boris - and with that, maybe the same frustrations?
Either way, I see Harden, as a 19 year old near perfect SG prospect who hasn't even come close to scratching the surface.
As amazing as Blake as been, JH is still #1 on my Bobcats board.
Nooo he's great but definitely not above Blake. He's tied at 2 with Rubio on my list.
p.s. ESPN now has your boy Evans coming to us at the 14 spot ;)
coordinator0
03-28-2009, 11:23 PM
Nooo he's great but definitely not above Blake. He's tied at 2 with Rubio on my list.
p.s. ESPN now has your boy Evans coming to us at the 14 spot ;)
I like Rubio, but I'm just wondering why do you have him #2 for the Bobcats? Assuming we re-sign Felton (or maybe drafting Rubio would lead us to not have to) we would be going after a 3rd PG.
Oh, and Harden is also my #1 for the Bobcats.
SWedd523
03-29-2009, 12:02 AM
I like Rubio, but I'm just wondering why do you have him #2 for the Bobcats? Assuming we re-sign Felton (or maybe drafting Rubio would lead us to not have to) we would be going after a 3rd PG.
Oh, and Harden is also my #1 for the Bobcats.
Because Rubio is an Olympic level talent with experience against the world's best players and you can't pass up on a talent of his level, regardless of who's on your team. I'd take him above DJ and possibly Ray just because of the experience he's had.
Not to mention he's had all of this experience and he's only a month older than I am. He's so young and he's already this talented with improvement still to come
Not to mention he's had all of this experience and he's only a month older than I am. He's so young and he's already this talented with improvement still to come
So we trade away...and get...?
What would you do with that? Just wondering, 'casue I agree he's freaking amazing
SWedd523
03-29-2009, 12:24 AM
So we trade away...and get...?
What would you do with that? Just wondering, 'casue I agree he's freaking amazing
Hell I don't know. I really don't care to be honest. :biggrin:
Trade Ray or DJ and our pick for the second or third pick? Luck out and get him in the draft then trade one of them for a quality big like Varejao?
I just think that in this draft there are two surefire locks to be longterm contributors and possible perennial all stars, two guys you can't pass up regardless of who you have on your team. Blake Griffin and Ricky Rubio.
Now just because those guys are A+ talent doesn't mean I'll complain about having to settle for an A talent like Harden ;)
Nooo he's great but definitely not above Blake. He's tied at 2 with Rubio on my list.
p.s. ESPN now has your boy Evans coming to us at the 14 spot ;)
Interesting. Can't wait to see yours, ohara's, co-ord's, t's and everyone else's big boards AND mock drafts once we know who is picking where and who is in and who is out.
Don't want to derail the thread, but I will say that I have as many and as equal concerns about Blake as I do James.
All in all though, I LOVE me some Jimmy H.
He's in and he's staying in. He hired an agent.
Please, please, please, please, please trade up and grab him.
Please?
SWedd523
04-08-2009, 09:14 PM
He's in and he's staying in. He hired an agent.
Please, please, please, please, please trade up and grab him.
Please?
Would you be willing to trade 2 or all three of our picks just to get him?
Or do you think our lottery pick and.. Nazr or somebody, would be enough to get it done?
coordinator0
04-08-2009, 10:22 PM
Would you be willing to trade 2 or all three of our picks just to get him?
Or do you think our lottery pick and.. Nazr or somebody, would be enough to get it done?
I would trade all 3 of our picks and Nazr lol.
Would you be willing to trade 2 or all three of our picks just to get him?
Or do you think our lottery pick and.. Nazr or somebody, would be enough to get it done?
I would totally trade all of our picks to land him. If we could add in Nazzy or Gana as well then that would just be gravy.
Then I would look to buy back into the late 1st/early 2nd if need be.
SWedd523
04-09-2009, 11:09 PM
I would totally trade all of our picks to land him. If we could add in Nazzy or Gana as well then that would just be gravy.
Then I would look to buy back into the late 1st/early 2nd if need be.
No doubt:cool:
The good thing is, some of the teams at the bottom would love to have 3 picks and pick up a lot of young talent if they're dropping higher salary guys. Make it happen Mike!
At this point dropping Nazr with one of the picks is addition by subtraction, is it not?
I'm all for it...
Marvel
04-13-2009, 08:24 PM
I'm all for it if we have to trade Felton to move up and get Harden than DO IT!!! He could play the point at times too.
Surprise, surprise (to some I guess?). Now that Ford has actually watched Harden in person he's saying that Harden is a lot more explosive, athletic and long than people had been giving him credit for.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=PreDraftTour-090515
Some people have questions about his size and athletic ability: I wouldn't be at all surprised if Harden puts up something like a 34" standing and 39" max vert and turns some heads at the predraft combine while measuresing out at around 6'4 1/2" without and 6'5 1/2" with shoes with a nice, long wing span of around 6'9" and standing reach of around 8'8".
So far I am looking genius.
He measured in today with:
w/o shoes:6'4"
w shoes: 6'5 1/4"
wing span: 6'10 3/4"
standing reach: 8'7 1/2"
Just wait until his jump results are made public...........
So far I am looking genius.
He measured in today with:
w/o shoes:6'4"
w shoes: 6'5 1/4"
wing span: 6'10 3/4"
standing reach: 8'7 1/2"
Just wait until his jump results are made public...........
I've gotta give you a +1 for that, that's awesome
edit: it won't let me, sorry man. But when I can, I will
SWedd523
05-29-2009, 04:24 PM
So far we are looking genius.
He measured in today with:
w/o shoes:6'4"
w shoes: 6'5 1/4"
wing span: 6'10 3/4"
standing reach: 8'7 1/2"
Just wait until his jump results are made public...........
fixed ;)
I remember way back in the regular season we were talking about his deceptive athleticism and I've been telling people he's way more athletic and bigger than people give him credit for. Nobody thinks he's going to be good because he doesn't have any size.
I stand firm that they're going to be surprised :)
Some people have questions about his size and athletic ability: I wouldn't be at all surprised if Harden puts up something like a 34" standing and 39" max vert and turns some heads at the predraft combine while measuresing out at around 6'4 1/2" without and 6'5 1/2" with shoes with a nice, long wing span of around 6'9" and standing reach of around 8'8".
I estimated he would be:
w/o shoes:6'4 1/2"
w shoes: 6'5 1/2"
wing span: 6'9"
Standing reach: 8'8"
No step vert: 34"
Max vert: 39"
He measured in with:
w/o shoes:6'4"
w shoes: 6'5 1/4"
wing span: 6'10 3/4"
Standing reach: 8'7 1/2"
No step vert: 31.5"
Max vert: 37"
He also knocked out 17 reps on the bench press!
This is the one guy (other have already concluded) that I've finally convinced myself we need and would be a team changer...I just don't know what we'd have to give OKC to move up and get him...anyone heard any rumors on what they might take to move down from 3?
spectre
06-12-2009, 02:29 PM
This is the one guy (other have already concluded) that I've finally convinced myself we need and would be a team changer...I just don't know what we'd have to give OKC to move up and get him...anyone heard any rumors on what they might take to move down from 3?
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=334&t=910878
They seem very agreeable to that idea.
Weezy21
06-12-2009, 09:10 PM
if they gave us krstic instead of collison an we got the 25th id be all for it! Then draft harden!!!
Truth be told I would trade EO50 for Harden and the #25 alone.
Them being willing to add in Collison is just gravy IMO.
Collison is a solid player...just not a starter IMO...for EO50 I'd take the 3, 25, and Collison if we got to keep the 12 also...would work for me to package the 12&25 to get another top 5-6...could be an outstanding draft and actually make Diop and Nazr work for their money...
Collison would be an LB wet dream and make our 2nd unit mucho strong. Agreed that he is not a starter, but man, he'd seriously help out "mo" when the blue team checks in.
I've always liked him just thought he was misused....100% agree he'd be great for us off the bench!
SWedd523
06-13-2009, 02:14 AM
Why are we even considering that trade?
Collison + 3 + 25 for Mek + 12?
Really?
This is a no brainer guys. GET IT DONE!
Hell I'd do Collison/Kristic + 3 for DJ and the 12 and be fine too.
I'd do either one...since I've come to believe Harden is the real deal for SG in this draft...just so we don't hurt ourselves...but enough good PGs to still get a back up at 25...
SWedd523
06-13-2009, 02:48 AM
I'd do either one...since I've come to believe Harden is the real deal for SG in this draft...just so we don't hurt ourselves...but enough good PGs to still get a back up at 25...
The beautiful thing is, I believe both Rubio and Harden will be available with the #3 selection. If we trade Mek, we can take Harden and use the 25 on a big.
Or
If we trade DJ we could take Rubio and use the 25 to take someone like Ellington, or make a package with our 3 remaining picks and get back into the lottery and take Williams or Henderson.
It would be an interesting dilemma...then we'd all have to hold our collective breathes and hope the FO could say (at least one) right name on draft night...LOL
Why are we even considering that trade?
Collison + 3 + 25 for Mek + 12?
Really?
This is a no brainer guys. GET IT DONE!
Hell I'd do Collison/Kristic + 3 for DJ and the 12 and be fine too.
No, no, no. They weren't even asking for the #12!!
So we would have the #3, #12 AND the #25!!
It's a very sweet deal IMO.
ELEVATION
06-13-2009, 10:45 AM
So we would have the #3, #12 AND the #25 PLUS #40, #54
This would be ideal:
With the #3 pick the Charlotte Bobcats select: Rubio/Harden
#12: I believe someone will drop..i think we might have a chance at Hill, Derozan, Evans, and Jennings. I would go with Hill if he dropped.
#25: I know this might suprise some people, but I would go with Dionte Christmas.
Trade #40 and #45..move into the 1st round..pick: T-wILliams
This would be a WIN situation for the Bobcats!!
Harden
Hill
Christmas
T-Will
ohara831
06-13-2009, 11:18 AM
No, no, no. They weren't even asking for the #12!!
So we would have the #3, #12 AND the #25!!
It's a very sweet deal IMO.
If this happened, they would give MJ the Executive of the Year Award already.
SWedd523
06-13-2009, 01:51 PM
If this happened, they would give MJ the Executive of the Year Award already.
I would dance naked in the streets outside the Cable Box. They can keep the 25. I'll take Rubio/Harden and capspace. THANK YOU COME AGAIN
I would dance naked in the streets outside the Cable Box. They can keep the 25. I'll take Rubio/Harden and capspace. THANK YOU COME AGAIN
:o
You could at least pick a less populated area :p
But I agree, that's a beutiful deal, and if we pulled that off, (which Presti won't do), I'd forgive MJ for anything he ever did (like AmMo and Gana)
This idea (trade) will just not go away (I've tried to make it all day)...I've played with all the trade machines etc. I could think of and a trade of EO50 to OKC with Collison coming back gives me "you must cut 1.5 million from OKC coming in"...fine with me...so question...
OKC has a 1.9 million trade exception and we have two trade exceptions of .97 and 1.2 million...I can't make it work with OKC but with Memphis (if we take Jaric who then becomes a 7.1 expiring) it would work...doubt their owner would have any interest in taking on EO50s salary though....
spectre
06-14-2009, 07:06 AM
Mek's BYC status is most likely mucking it up, and OKC isn't under the cap enough to absorb the difference. Here's the kicker though; 7 days after the draft OKC suddenly has loads of cap.
On draft night Stern says "OKC trades the 3rd and the 25th to Charlotte for future considerations". We then make the player swap on July 1st.
I don't think you can combine the TPE's can you?
spectre...I spent about an hour re-reading player trade exceptions yesterday and it seems to indicate they they can be used together (conditionally as with every frigging thing with the NBA)...
Either trade (for us) that I tried (EO50 to OKC for Collison and picks...EO50 to Memphis for Jaric and picks) will work for us...I don't know if one or both of our exceptions were used (I'm sure that at least one was)...
The OKC came back (even with their 1.9 million exception) saying another 1.5 million had to be cut...
They have a boat-load coming off and your idea (finishing a deal) on July first would work...but I'm starting to think given questions about Thabeet (even I think EO50 is tougher...by a long shot) Memphis may go in a different directions...
Given Rajas' age and injuries lasy year we might be better off with Jaric ...
PG: Felton, Augustin, Jaric,#12 pick
SG: Bell, Harden, Jaric
SF: Crash, Vlad, Jaric
PF: Diaw, Vlad, #27 pick
C: Nazr, Diop
We'd be able to play Lexy in NBADL (which I think he desperately needs...as well as #12 PG pick or the #27 PF pick if needed)...I left off J. Howard (although I'm not opposed bringing him back for a year) since there are strong indications most teams will go with 14 players...if we made either trade...and did not renew anyone other than Felton we'd be at 14 players...but we'd also have a starter and a back-up vet at every position...
I could live with this team...I think we'd go to the playoffs for sure...it would also give another year to evaluate Ray and see if he can take the next step (and give us a third talented PG from this draft)...We did not draft Roy (and even I knew he was a better pick than Morrison) and I'd rather we did not make this same mistake again...we need to try and get Harden...if we can do this is also gives us a deep bench and team (which we did not have last season) this assumes one of these two trades can be done...
I think EO50 would help either of those teams...and we have his salary (basically) invested in Nazr and Diop...I'd like to use that money...I honestly thing we could get the same numbers (at the end of the year) from Nazr and Diop...it will just take both to produce them...
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