Looking At the Bench

[RELAXTV]

So, after watching the last few games, I'm thinking to myself,

"The bench is our weakest link"

The starters can't keep on playing heavy minutes the course of the season, due to burn outs or potential injuries. Since our team is starting to make a run, I thought it'd be fun to discuss what our bench looks like as of now, and how we can either

A. Improve from within
B. Add on via trade what we lack

Looking at our bench, the roster is of the following
Guards
1.DJ-Probably the bench scoring we've been lacking for quite a while, can create for others as well, and is a good facilitator.
2.Shannon-Great at slashing. A bit erratic, so he needs a PG who can give it to him at the right time. Somewhat has a Superman complex, and at times drives madly to the basket, only to turn it over.
3.Lil' Sean-Haven't seen much of him to know his true worth. Though being a career scoring leader and assist leader at VU means something.

Forwards
1.Juwan-The veteran presence at forward we all thought the tub of lard by the name of Sean May would've been. Just gotta love that mid-range jumper off the bench.
2.Ammo-The bench scoring should've come from him, but now is only playing junk minutes
3. Frenchie-He's a year away at the very earliest. Only a spot up shooter right now
4.May-A waste of not only a roster space, but even a seat on the floor.

Centers
1.Nazzy-He probably can still contribute, but he needs playing time. I think he's been like that for a long time. Every time he moved to the bench for previous teams, he started to suck. Not a good match for us.
2.Diop-I'm really on the fence on this one. I kinda feel like he's just like Rajah his first few games here (remember, Rajah started out really slowly) I'll reserve my judgement on him for a while longer. Besides, his contribution's supposed to be bench rebounding and defense.


So, if you look at our current line-up, it looks pretty good, actually.

If DJ comes back, he'd be a perfect compliment for Shannon.
And that's two very quick guards off the bench, that would wear out the other team's rotation. That would probably leave spaces open for Juwan to hit his jumper.

Right there, that'd be about 20-25pts off the bench.

We still need a good 3 off the bench that would give Crash his breather. But looking at the bench as above, I don't think we need someone who's super athletic. What we need though is a spot up shooter on the wing. That should've been Ammo, but I really don't think his confidence is going up. He needs his minutes, but not at the expense of Crash or Boris. But then again, he's too slow to play the SG.

So to me, I don't really think we need that SG ala Larry Hughes that's been discussed, but rather someone like Reddick or Marco, who can spread the floor for others. We can trade Ammo, Nazzy, or the tub of lard. Reason being Tubby's expiring, Nazzy's veteran savvy, or Ammo's potential.


Sorry for the long rant, but I'd like to know what you think our potential of our bench, and what we're presently lacking that we can realistically get.

[mrtarheel]

Our bench is suspect but not that bad. I think Morrison would fit in a system like Jerry Sloan out in Utah and they could use Nazr, so here is what I think

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3188~988~2011~568~3016&teams=30~30~30~26~26&te=&cash=

Nothing major but Almonds might turn out to be a steal. Everyone seems to play better in LB system as long as they can endure it. Almonds was tearing it up in the jv league and might be that diamond in the rough. We get a spot up shooter in Korver and 2 mill of the books next year from Collins.

[BETCATS]

Our bench is suspect but not that bad. I think Morrison would fit in a system like Jerry Sloan out in Utah and they could use Nazr, so here is what I think

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3188~988~2011~568~3016&teams=30~30~30~26~26&te=&cash= (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3188%7E988%7E2011%7E568%7E3016&teams=30%7E30%7E30%7E26%7E26&te=&cash=)

Nothing major but Almonds might turn out to be a steal. Everyone seems to play better in LB system as long as they can endure it. Almonds was tearing it up in the jv league and might be that diamond in the rough. We get a spot up shooter in Korver and 2 mill of the books next year from Collins.

Korver would never be traded because he has a huge fan base. Dude is on Icon Status in Salt Lake

[RELAXTV]

I'd actually do that trade, but would Utah?

Maybe Ammo and may(he doesn't deserve to have his name upper-cased) for Krover straight up.

[mrtarheel]

Korver has been talked about as being tradeable some time ago. I think Ammo would have more upside there because he is a younger version and would become also an Iconic figure in Salt Lake seeing that he is only a state or two away from his home. To me he fits the mold of a Jazz player. He needs a change and I think it would be perfect for him.

[TattoodCats4life]

Korver has been talked about as being tradeable some time ago. I think Ammo would have more upside there because he is a younger version and would become also an Iconic figure in Salt Lake seeing that he is only a state or two away from his home. To me he fits the mold of a Jazz player. He needs a change and I think it would be perfect for him.

I agree, sending Ammo out west would do him some good.

[TattoodCatswife]

So, after watching the last few games, I'm thinking to myself,

"The bench is our weakest link"

The starters can't keep on playing heavy minutes the course of the season, due to burn outs or potential injuries. Since our team is starting to make a run, I thought it'd be fun to discuss what our bench looks like as of now, and how we can either

A. Improve from within
B. Add on via trade what we lack

Looking at our bench, the roster is of the following
Guards
1.DJ-Probably the bench scoring we've been lacking for quite a while, can create for others as well, and is a good facilitator.
2.Shannon-Great at slashing. A bit erratic, so he needs a PG who can give it to him at the right time. Somewhat has a Superman complex, and at times drives madly to the basket, only to turn it over.
3.Lil' Sean-Haven't seen much of him to know his true worth. Though being a career scoring leader and assist leader at VU means something.

Forwards
1.Juwan-The veteran presence at forward we all thought the tub of lard by the name of Sean May would've been. Just gotta love that mid-range jumper off the bench.
2.Ammo-The bench scoring should've come from him, but now is only playing junk minutes
3. Frenchie-He's a year away at the very earliest. Only a spot up shooter right now
4.May-A waste of not only a roster space, but even a seat on the floor.

Centers
1.Nazzy-He probably can still contribute, but he needs playing time. I think he's been like that for a long time. Every time he moved to the bench for previous teams, he started to suck. Not a good match for us.
2.Diop-I'm really on the fence on this one. I kinda feel like he's just like Rajah his first few games here (remember, Rajah started out really slowly) I'll reserve my judgement on him for a while longer. Besides, his contribution's supposed to be bench rebounding and defense.


So, if you look at our current line-up, it looks pretty good, actually.

If DJ comes back, he'd be a perfect compliment for Shannon.
And that's two very quick guards off the bench, that would wear out the other team's rotation. That would probably leave spaces open for Juwan to hit his jumper.

Right there, that'd be about 20-25pts off the bench.

We still need a good 3 off the bench that would give Crash his breather. But looking at the bench as above, I don't think we need someone who's super athletic. What we need though is a spot up shooter on the wing. That should've been Ammo, but I really don't think his confidence is going up. He needs his minutes, but not at the expense of Crash or Boris. But then again, he's too slow to play the SG.

So to me, I don't really think we need that SG ala Larry Hughes that's been discussed, but rather someone like Reddick or Marco, who can spread the floor for others. We can trade Ammo, Nazzy, or the tub of lard. Reason being Tubby's expiring, Nazzy's veteran savvy, or Ammo's potential.


Sorry for the long rant, but I'd like to know what you think our potential of our bench, and what we're presently lacking that we can realistically get.

We definitely need to fix the bench situation and I am at the point where they should just do whatever to get whatever cuz anything at this point would be better than what we have for our bench.

[DirtyU11]

I love the idea of sending morrison out west and I also think he would fit very well in the jazz system. But i dont think they would want to pay nazr that much $ over three years just to mentor. With okur, boozer, millsap, koufos, i dont think there really in desperate need for a big and even though boozer might be gone if we take korver (which is the main piece we would want) from them we would have to give them a gaurd back if we take almond too. I like the first trade for us, but Utah wouldnt got for it. This trade seems more realistic to me

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2992~2776~3016~988~2011&teams=26~26~26~30~30&te=3188:30-3201&cash= (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2992%7E2776%7E3016%7E988%7E201 1&teams=26%7E26%7E26%7E30%7E30&te=3188:30-3201&cash=)

collins gets dumped at the seasons end and we pickup a really good shooter in korver and a player with great size (6'6") and can shoot lights out in almond. With larry developing almond we could have a real sharpshooting two guard very shortly. I love this trade for us.
This also allows us to go after a true center in the draft instead of a 2 guard.

[G-Force for MVP]

once DJ comes back the bench will be much better

[BIGCatBobcat]

once DJ comes back the bench will be much better

I agree, I can't wait to see how we fare with DJ back.

I don't think at this point we make the bench better through a trade or anything except maybe a 10 day contract for a sg to fill that roster spot. larry has to work on the rotation, he knows that he's said as much. adam and a couple of the others just need to step up their game, most of all Diop. he has shown me NOTHING.

[dav7z]

Face it our beanch sucks , We have no scoring except Howard and DJ14 when he comes back . We down to 14 players another solid vetran be for the trade deadline would be nice ,from [free agency] not sure who.
For sure S, Brown , May , Morrison , Nazz and Diop so far is not steping up. If we could land somthing like Nazz for Stackhouse would be nice . Then we would have a scorer off the beanch, DJ, Howard and Stackhouse. or that type player does lots to taking us to the playoffs . Howards vetran play has done lots.

[SWedd523]

Great threat RELAX +1


I think our bench is okay at best, especially without DJ in the lineup. With him in there I can see us getting better production out of the rest of the second unit, with Shannon benefiting the most from his return

[G-Force for MVP]

plus i think juwan is a solid player

[teej]

Juwan can score off the bench, AmMo is streaky, DJ is solid and will help Shannon for sure, and Diop is a good defensive backup, and Sean can play ok...Nazr needs more time to get in his rythyms, and Lexy needs to develop....a lot

[dav7z]

Shan showed hes not ready tonight at a -14 per worst on the team . Dj14 we need back quickly.
All the subs in tonights game had a - per
Brown is no help neither is Morrison , Singletery is not ready for rotation play yet.

Diop was actualy a bright spot and might help the beanch. Howard was solid as ever.
DJ14 and a two three combo could help greatly.

[teej]

Shan showed hes not ready tonight at a -14 per worst on the team . Dj14 we need back quickly.
All the subs in tonights game had a - per
Brown is no help neither is Morrison , Singletery is not ready for rotation play yet.

Diop was actualy a bright spot and might help the beanch. Howard was solid as ever.
DJ14 and a two three combo could help greatly.

+/- is overrated

I remember one time with Diaw and felton both over 10 Nazr was the only one with a plus...you tell me if thats a good measure

[dav7z]

+/- is overrated

I remember one time with Diaw and felton both over 10 Nazr was the only one with a plus...you tell me if thats a good measure

Not all ways a good measure ,. But seeing Singletery after tonights game one can tell hes not ready for rptation play. His poor showing hurt the team in the first and second half.
He couldn't even get us into a set. Brown or Morrison didn't help either.

[teej]

Not all ways a good measure ,. But seeing Singletery after tonights game one can tell hes not ready for rptation play. His poor showing hurt the team in the first and second half.
He couldn't even get us into a set. Brown or Morrison didn't help either.

Well, Sean is also a rookie, and he has improved steadily, he wasnt worth my last crap when he got here, but he has slowly come along in LB's system and will continue to do so...and AmMo hit a three in one of his 3 attempts at a basket

What killed us was sub 70% FT shooting...unacceptable

[playoffs...PLAYOFFS?]

brown seemed kinda lost still, and somewhat erratic on his passes.

he played decently though

the two big bench players where Juwan and Diop.

I'm pretty suprised about Juwans consistency..he's giving us 6-8 pts, and it's clear that he knows what's going on in the game. he may be old, but his experience really helps him

[teej]

I'm pretty suprised about Juwans consistency..he's giving us 6-8 pts, and it's clear that he knows what's going on in the game. he may be old, but his experience really helps him

I think we all are after being told he would teach the kids, but he also knows how to dapt to an LB type sysytem

[RELAXTV]

brown seemed kinda lost still, and somewhat erratic on his passes.

he played decently though

the two big bench players where Juwan and Diop.

I'm pretty suprised about Juwans consistency..he's giving us 6-8 pts, and it's clear that he knows what's going on in the game. he may be old, but his experience really helps him


I'll second that. I may sound like a broken record, but Shannon's agreat assett off the bench. Yes, he is erratic, but his speed and driving ability is very useful. The thing is though, he's not supposed to have the ball in his hands at the top of the key. He is MUCH more useful in transition, where he can get the ball while cutting to the basket. We've got a hell of a wall in Gana, so if Gana can wipe out the opposing guard on a low screen, and if either DJ, Felts, or Boris can hit him, watch out.

I also believe that a spot up shooter coming off a double screen of Gana and Howard will be sick.

[davcbow]

7/23 shooting the 3's SUCKS, 18/30 at the free throw line? damn we stunk it up last night...:cool:

[WarioVsMooChicken]

I like Brown but he acts like a short version of Hollins (maybe that's why I like him).

Howard has been great and I'd like having him for 1 more year here.

Morrison showed a lil bit of confidence last night. Maybe I'm too much of a homer, but I still think he could be a great 6th man by the end of the year (I think DJ coming back will help lots) and possibly a 14-16 PPG player in the next year or so.

Diop was a beast at times yesterday and at times disapeared. I think we made a good trade. I sort of wish we would have gotten a 2nd rounder as well, but whatever.

I never cared much for Nazr. 90% of the time he looks awful but he'll have these occasional spurts where he looks like Mek and that always gives me false hope. I hope we can unload him soon.

DJ is awesome but not ready to be a starter.

I think Ajinca is more than ready to be a solid contributer to this team. He has never looked truely lost out there. I'd love for him to get 5-10 minutes a game. Watch out for him in 2-3 years.

We should sign a SG/SF from the D-League or CBA.

Overall, I think our bench just needs more experience.

[RELAXTV]

I like Brown but he acts like a short version of Hollins (maybe that's why I like him).

Howard has been great and I'd like having him for 1 more year here.

Morrison showed a lil bit of confidence last night. Maybe I'm too much of a homer, but I still think he could be a great 6th man by the end of the year (I think DJ coming back will help lots) and possibly a 14-16 PPG player in the next year or so.

Diop was a beast at times yesterday and at times disapeared. I think we made a good trade. I sort of wish we would have gotten a 2nd rounder as well, but whatever.

I never cared much for Nazr. 90% of the time he looks awful but he'll have these occasional spurts where he looks like Mek and that always gives me false hope. I hope we can unload him soon.

DJ is awesome but not ready to be a starter.

I think Ajinca is more than ready to be a solid contributer to this team. He has never looked truely lost out there. I'd love for him to get 5-10 minutes a game. Watch out for him in 2-3 years.

We should sign a SG/SF from the D-League or CBA.

Overall, I think our bench just needs more experience.


I really agree with your post.

Brown, though a little low on IQ, is like a dog out there, all energy. If we can build a system where he can control himself, he'll turn into a dobermen pincher. As of now, he's like that little mut who keeps chasing his tail.

The only part where I disagree with you is on Ammo. Yes, he has the potential. Yes, if given the right system, he can be a very nice 6th man off the bench. Is it here? That's where I tend to stop. I think Ammo needs the ball in his hands. The offense must revolve around him, and he needs his touches in the game. That's his rythem, so to speak. Because we play a transition game with lots of movement, there is no way Ammo can get the ball out on the free throw line extended, and take his time, and throw his beutiful floater. Nor can we see him be creative as he was in the preseason. It's sad really. He has the skill, the hunger, but our system can't cater to his ability. I sure hope some team finds the right formula for him, because he's a very good player.

Ajinca...I don't know. If he can be that spot shooter of the double high post screen I talked about earlier, than yes, but I seriously doubt he can play the three. Maybe in a year, he can be the more athletic Juwan Howard: Hitting the mid range jumper, using his big arms gracefully, running the floor. But right now, I'd rather use Juwan as the 4 off the bench.

If we can find that shooter in the NBADL, I'm all for it. However, considering how crappy our scouting team is, I wouldn't really count on it.

I'll just wait patiently til the trade deadline.

If that doesn't happen, well, then I will watch this team grow, miss the playoffs barely, and get a good pick. Pick up a good two guard or a three that can hit those shots, or pick up a cheap FA for the CBA.
I would love to get Ben Gordon, but then again...

And one last thing. DJ is good enough to start. However, our bench needs him more than the bench needs Felts. Felts has the energy, the courage, but he's just too damn unpredictable. DJ on the other hand, you know that he can score off the bench, and also facilitate.

[dav7z]

I like Brown but he acts like a short version of Hollins (maybe that's why I like him).

Howard has been great and I'd like having him for 1 more year here.

Morrison showed a lil bit of confidence last night. Maybe I'm too much of a homer, but I still think he could be a great 6th man by the end of the year (I think DJ coming back will help lots) and possibly a 14-16 PPG player in the next year or so.

Diop was a beast at times yesterday and at times disapeared. I think we made a good trade. I sort of wish we would have gotten a 2nd rounder as well, but whatever.

I never cared much for Nazr. 90% of the time he looks awful but he'll have these occasional spurts where he looks like Mek and that always gives me false hope. I hope we can unload him soon.

DJ is awesome but not ready to be a starter.

I think Ajinca is more than ready to be a solid contributer to this team. He has never looked truely lost out there. I'd love for him to get 5-10 minutes a game. Watch out for him in 2-3 years.

We should sign a SG/SF from the D-League or CBA.

Overall, I think our bench just needs more experience.

I don't dislike Singletery . I really like the little guy. As far as inprovements this year in him i havn't seen any. I look at him as a project player . Where DJ can contribute now. As far as game play i feel Ajinca is closer than Singletery but DJ being down dictates Shans playing time.
I agree about the Nazz contract if we could unload him i would. With Diop and Howard we have no need for Nazz or May. Any value hear would be nice.
Someone said Morrison hit a three last game . One three in the last three games isn't going to cut it . He has the abitity to play 20 mins per game but not the confidence. Hes a liability instead of a asset if he can't score. With no offence or defence out of the back up three position hes very expendable. Another contract thet needs to be moved be for the trade deadline. S Brown can jump but the reason Brown signed him isn't working a strong defencive presence at the back up two position. Hes inconsistant on both sides of the ball .

So we only about seven deep eight some days with our only true beanch players of
DJ14 , Howard , if we lucky Diop,
We need one more person who can produce at the s/g s/f position.

[playoffs...PLAYOFFS?]

Ajinca is nowhere ready to be playing right now..he is foul prone and doesn't have the frame yet to box out people, as someone said he is a spot up shooter at best

[TattoodCatswife]

I really like Brown as well. As soon as he steps out on the court he totally looks like he is ready to give it his all and he is so aggressive and athletic. He just needs to get a good flow going and his passes are fast to the other guys where it looks to me that sometimes he may be too fast for the other guys like Diop and etc. I think they really need to work with Brown in practice and get his flow going with the other guys in practice so the flow can be better on the court. The thing is when we had Carroll Brown was benched and inactive for all those games and didn't get to play that when you don't get to play during an actual game it's hard to gel with the team. I mean practice is one thing and playing an actual game with a crowd involved and every other factor that u can throw at them is an entirely different thing and I feel that Brown just needs to keep getting played more and the more he gets played the better he will become. I really see the potential with him.

[drunkbum]

I think judgment shouldnt be made till DJ gets back..... It all starts with the pg and things have looked unorganized with sean playing point.

DJ brings the bench a different style and different look than sean can provide...

Earlier in the season when shannon was playing with DJ they seemed to flow well together.... he was able to get the ball to him on the break alot.....

if adam could hit his shots DJ opens the floor....

plus DJ can get to the line....

It will be nice to see what this team can to do when he gets back....

[TattoodCatswife]

plus DJ can get to the line....


And not only can he get to the line but he also makes his FTs

[TattoodCats4life]

DJ makes the second unit play better, I look forward to having this combo on the floor tho

DJ, Raja, Wallace, Diaw, Meka
DJ, S.Brown, Wallace, Meka, Diop wicked "tough guy" line up
DJ, Lil Sean, Shannon Brown, Ajinca, Meka/Diop wicked "We're too fast for you" line up, probably would run and gun better than the new knicks.

[RELAXTV]

I really don't want to be an ass after a great performance by Shannon, but... where the hell were all of you guys when tatoodcatswife, WarioVsMooChicken and I were probably the only ones prepping him!!! lol