Jameer Nelson, what could've been...

[Proudiddy]

I apologize that I can't remember who said it, but I remember someone on this board with some insider info had told us about how Bickerstaff had muffed on acquiring Jameer Nelson the year he came out. Being a smaller guy playing ball myself, I had always loved Jameer's game. I had wanted us to get him in the draft that year and felt he was going to be a great pro prospect. Well, we all saw, he made the all-star team tonight, and I just started thinking 'what could've been?'

I wish we would've had some stability in the front office earlier on. Higgins has made some good deals since he's been here and he's also the guy that had brought Baron Davis to GS and led them to their playoff berth. I just wonder... Do you guys think if we would've got Nelson that year in the draft, do you think the other pieces would've fell into place quicker and we would've made the playoffs by now? I do. What do you guys think?

(BTW, talking about Nelson reminded me of the rumors that we were going to go after Rashard Lewis when he became a free agent too, and we never even pursued him.)

[teej]

Even with the right pieces, Bickerstaff wasn't taking us to the playoffs, and FHB could only have ruined any chance at Jameer being an allstar...so No

[dnbman]

Felton's close enough to Jameer that I don't really think about him at all. Now, I start to reflect a bit during our recent Pacer, Grizzly, and Trailblazer games.

Rashard would have cost us Wallace and been a LOT more money. Most agree that Rashard is a VERY expensive part of Orlando's lineup.

I don't know. As reasonable as it is to assume they would could have built a playoff team faster, they just could have easily put us in a much worse situation with a mediocre team and worse contracts.

[TattoodCats4life]

We could have taken the best of every draft, (ie make orlando take mek we get howard, make the NO trade so we got CP3, picking whoever instead of ammo etc) We would be the same... Its not the players we have, but the coaching we've HAD... from here out we need to just pick wisely and trade wisely and we'll be fine.

[dnbman]

We could have taken the best of every draft, (ie make orlando take mek we get howard, make the NO trade so we got CP3, picking whoever instead of ammo etc) We would be the same... Its not the players we have, but the coaching we've HAD... from here out we need to just pick wisely and trade wisely and we'll be fine.

Exactly.

The only draft that I ever really a question a whole lot is the infamous Sam Bowie draft. And even then, who knew?

[SWedd523]

People develop differently in different places. If we would've picked him, he wouldn't be the same player he is now for Orlando. It's simply impossible to tell how a player would develop in a different city. Had CP3 been picked by us, he may not have turned into as good of a player as he is now, but at the same time he may have turned out better.

Of course, players like Paul, Deron Williams, Brandon Roy, and others are pretty obviously going to be good no matter where they go. Others like Morrison, Rudy Gay, and Ty Thomas are high risk/high reward and can be more affected by where they go and what types of teams they go to.

[TattoodCatswife]

I'm just pissed Okafor didn't get in the reserves...he really deserved it

[teej]

People develop differently in different places. If we would've picked him, he wouldn't be the same player he is now for Orlando. It's simply impossible to tell how a player would develop in a different city. Had CP3 been picked by us, he may not have turned into as good of a player as he is now, but at the same time he may have turned out better.

Of course, players like Paul, Deron Williams, Brandon Roy, and others are pretty obviously going to be good no matter where they go. Others like Morrison, Rudy Gay, and Ty Thomas are high risk/high reward and can be more affected by where they go and what types of teams they go to.

Good point...FHB coulda ruined CP3 or made him the best ever (if FHB could do that to anyone but cInnis :p )

[TattoodCats4life]

Good point...FHB coulda ruined CP3 or made him the best ever (if FHB could do that to anyone but cInnis :p )

First of all FHB would have started McInnis over CP3...
Second of all FHB would have made Wilt Chamberlain into what Sean May is today (minus the fat part).

[TattoodCatswife]

First of all FHB would have started McInnis over CP3...
Second of all FHB would have made Wilt Chamberlain into what Sean May is today (minus the fat part).

HAHAHA :D too funny

[jdub28]

Up until last year I was just kind of a gameday fan. What was the reasoning behind our past draft picks (What did we see in Morrison over Randy Foye and Brandon Roy)? Who were we predicted to pick, what reasons we changed those decisons?

Its not often you get to know a franchise from the beginning, I'd like understand more how the team came to be built

[teej]

First of all FHB would have started McInnis over CP3...
Second of all FHB would have made Wilt Chamberlain into what Sean May is today (minus the fat part).

Haha well your prolly right...he held back devin harris in dallas too. Just look at what hes doing with NJ

[TheBeagle]

We could have taken the best of every draft, (ie make orlando take mek we get howard, make the NO trade so we got CP3, picking whoever instead of ammo etc) We would be the same... Its not the players we have, but the coaching we've HAD... from here out we need to just pick wisely and trade wisely and we'll be fine. +1 Perfect post, my man!

[BobcatsAllDay]

It's easy (and heartbreaking at times) to look back on past drafts and say "what if", especially for the Bobcats. But you have to look at the upside of drafting the players we could have selected. If Dwight had slid to #2, would we have a shot a CP3? If we had Dwight and CP3 there is no way in hell we have the 3rd pick the following year and get Roy, that would mean only one of two things; the players we selected did not live up to expectations or we had an injury plagued season. Good players/teams ultimately means low to no first round draft picks.

[docend24]

It's easy (and heartbreaking at times) to look back on past drafts and say "what if", especially for the Bobcats. But you have to look at the upside of drafting the players we could have selected. If Dwight had slid to #2, would we have a shot a CP3? If we had Dwight and CP3 there is no way in hell we have the 3rd pick the following year and get Roy, that would mean only one of two things; the players we selected did not live up to expectations or we had an injury plagued season. Good players/teams ultimately means low to no first round draft picks.
O nthe other hand you can't assume that those players would do that same on Bobcats roster. It is about being at the right place at the righ time. And having the skills. I would say if we draft Dwight Howard we would probably got as¨good pick as we got maybe slightly better considering Emeka and not Dwight was ROY. Any you have to make clear if balls in lottery would end up the same and more other things. It is usuallly no good to do a review for consecutive draft years.

[Jeff41]

As others have said, Felton is basically a carbon copy of Nelson so I am indifferent. I have much bigger issues with the drafting of Morrison over Roy and obviously not trading with New Orleans to get Paul. The latter will make me sick the entire time Paul is in the league.

[TattoodCatswife]

As others have said, Felton is basically a carbon copy of Nelson so I am indifferent. I have much bigger issues with the drafting of Morrison over Roy and obviously not trading with New Orleans to get Paul. The latter will make me sick the entire time Paul is in the league.

Yeah..Paul would have been sick to have

[BETCATS]

of all the guys we 'could have got' Antonie Walker pre-sucking days (in the expansion draft, he was available) and Carl Landry are the only 2 i wish we had taken.

[RELAXTV]

of all the guys we 'could have got' Antonie Walker pre-sucking days (in the expansion draft, he was available) and Carl Landry are the only 2 i wish we had taken.

I'd a also taken Antwan Jamison in the expansion draft.

Sure as hell beats picking two tarheals, and Ammo for fan exposure.

At least Jamison's got game!!!

That way, there'd be no way in hell we would've picked may in 05.

[BETCATS]

I'd a also taken Antwan Jamison in the expansion draft.

Sure as hell beats picking two tarheals, and Ammo for fan exposure.

At least Jamison's got game!!!

That way, there'd be no way in hell we would've picked may in 05.

aw man! A Okafor-Jamison-Wallace-Steve Smith-Brevin Knight lineup might have made a playoff apperance.

[TattoodCatswife]

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/02/02/magic.nelson.ap/index.html?rss=true

Figured I'd put this here since this thread is titled for him.

[Slam]

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/02/02/magic.nelson.ap/index.html?rss=true

Figured I'd put this here since this thread is titled for him.
And piggy backing on that........

With Nelson being out of commision and no real quality back up on the Magic roster, do you think we could get Pietrus and a 1st for Felton?

Pietrus would give us great bench production at the 2 or 3 and an eventual starting 2. I wonder if LB could work magic with someone like MP - plus he would provide the continued French theme in the team.

The late 1st round pick this draft would help us add depth.

Edit: Not saying I would 100% do it, just spit balling really.

[Slam]

You guys are giving me nuttin' on this?

[JamieMcNeill]

You guys are giving me nuttin' on this?

how long they think jameer is out?

[RELAXTV]

You guys are giving me nuttin' on this?

Probably a slow day.


Regarding the Felts to Magic proposal, I actually like it. It helps us short term (until Crash comes back) and also long long term, by helping the bench.

The problem I do have is two things:

1. our bench depth doesn't change a whole lot. We're basically interchanging our number one bench option from DJ to Pietrus. Our bench scoring doesn't get a whole lot better, considering we lose a starter.

2. I'm really against trading within our division.

[TattoodCatswife]

how long they think jameer is out?

They think the rest of the season apparently
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/02/03/magic.nelson.20090203.ap/index.html?rss=true

[spectre]

I've never cared for Pietrus, supposedly (from the GSW posters) he's not very smart. Caught some of a game the other day and the Majic announcers were joking that if he has the ball on the break the others should just get in rebounding position because he's going to shoot.

Maybe he's gotten better tho?

There's no way I'd be giving up our starting 1 to get a backup now. Boris is starting to get spread very thin (and maybe this is why he's been struggling?) by having to play the 3 & the 4 with Crash out and then agaiinst Utah we used him some as a 1.

I'm ready to have some PG depth again, and with DJ back Felton can cover some at the 2.

[Slam]

I've never cared for Pietrus, supposedly (from the GSW posters) he's not very smart. Caught some of a game the other day and the Majic announcers were joking that if he has the ball on the break the others should just get in rebounding position because he's going to shoot.

Maybe he's gotten better tho?
Agreed - I had always heard the "dumb as a house brick" stuff when it came to him, but I think he's improved a lot since joining the Magic.

This year he's averaging:

fg: 47% (on 9apg)
3pt: 35% (on 4apg)
ft: 83%
pts: 12.3
reb: 3.4
assists: 1.1
steals: .8
t/o: 1.3

and he's doing it all in only 26mpg.

I'm not saying he is the be all and end all, but he is young'ish, a good defensive player, a pretty good shooter, is a huge fan of MJ (they called him Air France) and French - which might mesh well with Boris and Lex?

Plus, he is on a pretty fair contract and WANTS to be the man - something we need.

We acquire him and we have a solid rotation at the 2 spot with him and Raja grooming Pietrus to take over (shouldn't take long) and we can then use one of our draft picks on the 5 or 6 quality points that are in this draft to back up Felts while using the Magic pick to add some much needed depth.

The other option would be to trade:

DJ and Nazzy
for
Pietrus, Johnson and a 2009 1st?

Then we get rid of Nazzy's contract - which would be a nice kicker?

[SWedd523]

Edit: Not saying I would 100% do it, just spit balling really.
Since we're just spit ballin'.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2753~568~3445~2173~3024&teams=19~19~30~30~30&te=&cash=

With whatever picks necessary to make things work? Lose a big contract but also our starting PG. We get back Lee/Pietrus/Redick who bring much needed depth at the wing spots.

We get a cold blooded shooter who can take over for Hammer, a poor man's Crash who just happens to be French, and a guy who is going to be a solid rotation guy for the future in Lee.

Thoughts?



(They also have Anthony Johnson who could be a solid vet presence behind Augustin, but I don't know if we could pry him away with their lack of depth at the PG spot)

[BETCATS]

i am not against any of you guy's trade propsals or anything BUT read this.
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/rob_peterson/01/13/eastern.insider.20090113/


and i have read elsewhere (i am too lazy to find the articles) that the Magic have GREAT team chemistry and their GM/Former Magic Player Otis Smith is very reluctant to break this group up.

Comming from our view, these trades could benifit us greatly, and we would not be giving them crap either.

Looking at their side, they would risk destroying team chemsitry (although Felton and Jameer are very simular players, somebody pointed that out already).

[Slam]

Since we're just spit ballin'.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2753~568~3445~2173~3024&teams=19~19~30~30~30&te=&cash=

With whatever picks necessary to make things work? Lose a big contract but also our starting PG. We get back Lee/Pietrus/Redick who bring much needed depth at the wing spots.

We get a cold blooded shooter who can take over for Hammer, a poor man's Crash who just happens to be French, and a guy who is going to be a solid rotation guy for the future in Lee.

Thoughts?


(They also have Anthony Johnson who could be a solid vet presence behind Augustin, but I don't know if we could pry him away with their lack of depth at the PG spot)
I think that would kill them at the 2 spot and leave them super thin. I think that if we could get Peitrus they would want Lee as their starting SG.

[JamieMcNeill]

Its now being reported that Felts has become a target for the Magic

[spectre]

Its now being reported that Felts has become a target for the Magic

Where did you see that? Not that it's surprising...he's probably the best choice out of those supposedly available (main reason is his contract status).


Agreed - I had always heard the "dumb as a house brick" stuff when it came to him, but I think he's improved a lot since joining the Magic.

This year he's averaging:

fg: 47% (on 9apg)
3pt: 35% (on 4apg)
ft: 83%
pts: 12.3
reb: 3.4
assists: 1.1
steals: .8
t/o: 1.3

and he's doing it all in only 26mpg.

I'm not saying he is the be all and end all, but he is young'ish, a good defensive player, a pretty good shooter, is a huge fan of MJ (they called him Air France) and French - which might mesh well with Boris and Lex?

Plus, he is on a pretty fair contract and WANTS to be the man - something we need.

We acquire him and we have a solid rotation at the 2 spot with him and Raja grooming Pietrus to take over (shouldn't take long) and we can then use one of our draft picks on the 5 or 6 quality points that are in this draft to back up Felts while using the Magic pick to add some much needed depth.

The other option would be to trade:

DJ and Nazzy
for
Pietrus, Johnson and a 2009 1st?

Then we get rid of Nazzy's contract - which would be a nice kicker?

Is this a "give up the season" trade? That's about the only way I'd want to give up either Felton or DJ. I also really don't want to move DJ at all right now either; I've complained about his deficiencies, but there's really nothing that can't be overcome...esp. with LB here.

[Slam]

Is this a "give up the season" trade? That's about the only way I'd want to give up either Felton or DJ. I also really don't want to move DJ at all right now either; I've complained about his deficiencies, but there's really nothing that can't be overcome...esp. with LB here.
More a "we have a serious lack of depth and I'm worried about that astronomical word that was kicked around last week when it comes to the extension of Felts contract over the summer and Pietrus is a pretty sound player on a very fair contract plus I want to get some better balance to the roster while getting an extra draft pick or two" type trade.

I really don't want to give up Felts or DJ either, but with the money we are paying EO50, Boris and Crash - something is going to have to give. Not sure we can afford to resign Felts so we might as well get something for him while we can?

[TattoodCatswife]

I really don't want to give up Felts or DJ either, but with the money we are paying EO50, Boris and Crash - something is going to have to give. Not sure we can afford to resign Felts so we might as well get something for him while we can?

I totally agree with you. The money is a big problem right now and don't forget what we are paying Nazr either..it's just not looking too good right now and like u said, I'm not sure either we can afford Felton at this point. It just doesn't look good.

[JamieMcNeill]

[quote=spectre;114435]Where did you see that? Not that it's surprising...he's probably the best choice out of those supposedly available (main reason is his contract status).quote]

Its on ziggys blog :D

[spectre]

Well remember, that was Peter Vecsey who said that.

Is depth at the 2 worth giving up depth at the 1 plus the 2? The PG slot is the most important in LB's system, and I do believe that he was worried about that depth during the draft and influenced our selection of DJ.

Thanks Jamie.

[Slam]

Is depth at the 2 worth giving up depth at the 1 plus the 2? The PG slot is the most important in LB's system, and I do believe that he was worried about that depth during the draft and influenced our selection of DJ.

But we would be adding overall depth - wouldn't we? Plus we would be balancing our roster.

Sure, we would lose depth at the PG spot for the time being, but we could swing a secondary deal of something like Nazzy for Watson to address that pretty quickly.

The upcoming draft class is loaded with PG talent. If we have a few draft picks to play with (ours, the Magics - and I'd love to get one of the three that the Thunder have) then we should add MORE depth again.

DJ - Watson - Singletary
Bell - Pietrus - Brown
Crash - Pietrus - Ammo - Bling
Diaw - Howard
EO50 - Diop - Lex

and we'd have at least two 1st round draft picks for the upcoming draft.



Well remember, that was Peter Vecsey who said that.

Totally agree - and a lot of this would be predicated on knowing that Felts is going to want more than he might be worth - which has crossed everyones mind, especially with his improved play over the early-mid part of Jan.

[TattoodCatswife]

Sure, we would lose depth at the PG spot for the time being, but we could swing a secondary deal of something like Nazzy for Watson to address that pretty quickly.


I am totally not worried about losing depth at the PG position as Larry Brown is like THE coach to have for PGs and I feel whoever we have at PG Larry is going to strive to make that player one of the best PG's in the league. I would be worried if Vincent was still coach...

[spectre]

I just see no way LB runs with such a young group of PGs, esp. since he's here for "win now". He might be the greatest coach ever of PGs (and I have no problem giving him that title), but notice the first thing he's done with our squad is inject veterans and moved some youth.

How does it help our overall depth vs. the status quo? Felton can play the 1 & the 2; Pietrus plays mostly 2 and some at the 3 right (he's 6'6")? Subtracting out our "combo" IMO actually hurts our depth vs. balancing it out.

And OKC wouldn't do Nazr for Watson...they're wanting to get out of his 2nd year and will want an expiring. Maybe something like S Brown + May will get it done.

[davcbow]

I dont have many worries with a trade right now as long as we get a decent PG back plus a very good player in return. We do seriously lack in depth on the bench and with GW being out we lack on the starting side of the team too. :cool:

[Slam]

How does it help our overall depth vs. the status quo? Felton can play the 1 & the 2; Pietrus plays mostly 2 and some at the 3 right (he's 6'6")? Subtracting out our "combo" IMO actually hurts our depth vs. balancing it out.
Let Shannon play the combo role. He can, and he gets paid a whole lot less to do it than Felts does today and will do after this season.

We have had next to no bench production for nearly a month. Adding a legit option at the 2 and 3 spots PLUS an additional 1st round pick provides depth as well as better balance on our roster (both in terms of talent and in money).

I'm not saying that Shannon is as good as Felts, but he can fill the combo role IMO.

I would think that Pietrus on a flat $5.3mil per year contract and two 2009 1st round draft picks would give us more depth and balance than Felton and a "who knows what" per year contract and one 2009 1st round draft pick would?

[TattoodCats4life]

Think though, Orlando's first round pick is going to be what, 25+ overall...

[spectre]

Let Shannon play the combo role. He can, and he gets paid a whole lot less to do it than Felts does today and will do after this season.

We have had next to no bench production for nearly a month. Adding a legit option at the 2 and 3 spots PLUS an additional 1st round pick provides depth as well as better balance on our roster (both in terms of talent and in money).

I'm not saying that Shannon is as good as Felts, but he can fill the combo role IMO.

I would think that Pietrus on a flat $5.3mil per year contract and two 2009 1st round draft picks would give us more depth and balance than Felton and a "who knows what" per year contract and one 2009 1st round draft pick would?

I don't see LB having any confidence in Brown at the 1. He's not happy with the backup PG situation now (Boris), taking Felton out of the equation makes it worse. That's just more important to me than getting a player to back up Raja and can play the 3 in certain situations.

Of course if "astronomical" is true then of course we look at everything and this wouldn't be "bad". We'd have to swing a Watson type deal though.

Out of curiosity, I wonder how intricate Orlando's offense is? Remember all the plays Felton said he had to learn under LB's system? It always seemed to me Richardson struggled somewhat in it. If he did, Pietrus definitely would, at least if what those fans said are true.

[JamieMcNeill]

Out of curiosity, I wonder how intricate Orlando's offense is? Remember all the plays Felton said he had to learn under LB's system? It always seemed to me Richardson struggled somewhat in it. If he did, Pietrus definitely would, at least if what those fans said are true.

Yea i see where this could be a problem.

[Slam]

That's just more important to me than getting a player to back up Raja and can play the 3 in certain situations.

Are you still of the thought that we should look to move Raja at the trade deadline to a team int he hunt for rings?

[spectre]

Are you still of the thought that we should look to move Raja at the trade deadline to a team int he hunt for rings?

"Should" is a little strong if we're talking my POV. Right now I'm still in denial about our season and the loss of Crash. I also think LB loves the guy and won't want to part with him even thru next season.

You can't deny though that he has a reputation in the league and there's no doubt a lot of contenders would kill to have him. Larry & MJ also love to trade.

Pick your poison:

*We trade Raja, Felton + Nazr and possibly Crash (most likely this summer now) for a whole new team next season hopefully with some new assets like picks.

*We keep everyone, treat Felton like we did Crash during his FA and figure on a strong start next season.

It could go either way.