Jermaine O'Neal to Heat

[SirBobcat]

ESPN just reported that Jermaine O'Neal and Jamario Moon are off to Miami for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks.

This is how it looks: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=daxgt8

[G-Force for MVP]

raptors just got better ... damn

[krazyrumpshaker]

that is not good for us, to have a team below us in the standings getting better. they also have 21 wins but a few more losses. wouldnt take much for them to jump us if we dont continue to win consistently.

[ohara831]

raptors just got better ... damn


That's what I thought. But when you plug in the trade into the ESPN Trade Machine, it gives you the analysis of Rick Bucher and how he thinks it affects them. It decreased Toronto's wins and increased Miami's. But I tend to think it helps Toronto more. I guess it depends on how healthy O'Neal stays.

When you go to some team site Boards out there, it appears both teams benefit and the fans on both sides seem to like it.

[spectre]

When you go to some team site Boards out there, it appears both teams benefit and the fans on both sides seem to like it.

Not on the RGM Raptors' board...I just spent about 20 minutes going thru that thread and most hate it.

Eh...I've never been a fan of O'Neal, but Flash can obviously use all the help he can get. They'll probably win a few more games. Toronto? I think this actually made them worse. JO had been their best player recently (at least according to their fans), and most seem to think Marion would do best in an uptempo style...which isn't what they are.

[TattoodCats4life]

Don't forget, they may get better, but we're getting better and gelling still ourselves. They'll have that period of a week or so where neither of the 2 new players are up to snuff due to not knowing the system etc. (Kinda like when Diaw shoots a rocket pass to Cartier and he isnt where Diaw thought he should be because Diaw passes ahead of the player like a quarterback). The Trade machine says that this trade makes Toronto -5 wins worse, but I dont stake much faith in those ratings.

I'm waiting to see one last bobcats deal by Monday, probably a Sean May for raw player who isnt working out where they are type trade... or Maybe we just cut to brass tacks with Indiana and go Nazr for Tinsley, Graham and a pick (we can do this with a trade exception). We'll see what Higgins, MJ and LB decide is best, im sure we'll entertain more than one offer over the weekend.

[spectre]

The Miami Heat (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/mia/;_ylt=Auzg2UFn9Z94wUPMIdnmafjTjdIF) have completed a trade with the Toronto Raptors (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/tor/;_ylt=AhBYKdBDdn7ZVVqQBrMNs5HTjdIF), acquiring Jermaine O’Neal (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3120/;_ylt=AstTTkFyGTuvdcmRT9j2TVjTjdIF), Jamario Moon (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4342/;_ylt=AqNQdsY2ya.Ba1tBTn7C1MLTjdIF) and a future first-round pick in exchange for Shawn Marion (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3332/;_ylt=AmZ76me3IvpDfl8yi4xhHSHTjdIF) and Marcus Banks (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3716/;_ylt=An.nvIy6ELY3z1yemQjCZvLTjdIF), multiple league executives said Friday. The Raptors also will receive cash considerations in the deal.

Wow, the Heat got a 1st AND dumped Banks!

[ohara831]

http://www.realgm.com/src_feature_pieces/739/20090213/grading_the_deal_raptors_and_heat_finally_pull_tri gger/

Reina at RGM seems to think the Raptors got the best of the deal.

[ohara831]

But I have to say that the future 1st seems to tilt the deal to Miami in my book.

[spectre]

http://www.realgm.com/src_feature_pieces/739/20090213/grading_the_deal_raptors_and_heat_finally_pull_tri gger/

Reina at RGM seems to think the Raptors got the best of the deal.

Heh, that guy might, but check out the Raps board, Miami board and the thread on the Trade board!

But Toronto did get cash!

I wonder if Toronto is planning on re-signing Marion?

[spectre]

According to a party with the details of the deal, the Heat will receive a first-round pick from Toronto in 2010, unless that pick is among the first 14 (lottery) selections.

Should Toronto be in the draft lottery in 2010, in essence not make next season's playoffs, the Heat then would receive a 2010 second-round pick from the Raptors.

The first-round pick then would be sent to the Heat in any year, from 2011 through 2014 that it is not among the first 14 selections (the next year Toronto makes the playoffs).

Should the Heat not get the first-round pick by 2014, it then would receive a 2015 first-round pick from the Raptors.

And a 4+ million dollar trade exception! :biggrin:

Riley has moved up into Joe Dumars territory.

[tamburello]

Even without that 1st round pick, Heat got the better off this deal IMHO. Maybe they will pay one more season for O'Neal, but getting rid of Banks' contract is crucial for 2010 plans. I'm not saying O'Neal will be a huge factor as Wade and he's injury prone, but this will lead Beasley all the way up to starting lineup. And Chalmers-Wade-Beasley-Haslem-O'Neal starting 5 is not bad.

Plus Moon>>Banks

For Raptors, I believe they are only motivated by economics. They will probably try to be an actor in 2009 offseason. That's all.

[BETCATS]

Lets not forget, Jermanie O'Neal can still play. He cannot play consistently, he cannot play heavy minutes, but he can still be a force at times. The Heat needed a big man like him. Beasley will take Marion's spot in the lineup most likey, and Moon will be good to take Beasley's bench minutes. Miami wins, which sucks for us, because it means they are still a decent team even if Wade is gone.

[TattoodCats4life]

I think i remember somewhere reading (when this trade was just an idea) that if the Raptors did this they would have room to try and sign boozer. Boozer + Bosh would be a difficult to beat front court.

[SWedd523]

I think i remember somewhere reading (when this trade was just an idea) that if the Raptors did this they would have room to try and sign boozer. Boozer + Bosh would be a difficult to beat front court.
If Boozer doesn't want to go to a small town market, he won't want to go to Toronto. But then again, Bosh and Calderon may change his mind

[spectre]

Ben Gordon would be a better target IMO, but I'm not sure that this really clears up cap enough for Toronto where they can sign a big FA if their intent is to keep Marion (and according to their GM it is). He has a caphold of 26 million and that will have to be resolved first. Parker and Graham together have a caphold of 19 million too, so they'd pretty much have to renounce all their FAs to to be a real player.

On another note...supposedly this is how the trade went down. I think the 2nd guy's revision is more correct (I think Toronto only got a 770k TE instead of 4 million), but if Tam or someone would like to chime in...

Very intricate to create the trade exceptions:

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=881536



There was technically 2 deals that were made.
Deal 1)
Jermaine O'neal ($21.352 mil) for Shawn Marion ($17.18 mil). It worked straight up, because it was within 125% +$100k, which is the rule. Miami could have taken up to $21.575 mil.
By completing Deal 1, Toronto actually gained a $4.1732 mil trade exception.

Deal 2)
Jamario Moon ($711,517) + future pick for Marcus Banks ($4.176 mil) and $3 mil cash.
Toronto used $3.65 mil of that new trade exception to make the 2nd deal. The pick and the cash did not "count" in any way as far as the transaction is concerned, but Toronto still has $525k ofr the exception left.
By making deal 2, Miami created a $3.46 mil trade exception of their own (not quite $4 mil as reported).
When you look at the greater picture, JO basically = Marion+Banks as far as $$ goes (it was within 40K). Miami absorbed an extra $707,500 for this season and $18.53 mil for next season.
Toronto sheds $707,500 for this season and $18.53 mil less whatever Marion gets extended for, which is about 40% of what JO would have made had he remained on the roster, or 40% of what we would have had to take in exchange if he was traded in the summer.
That's something people don't realize also. Dealing JO now means that the salary coming back only has to count for the rest of this year. Dealing JO in the summer would mean that we'd have to take back contracts worth at least 80% of $22.995 mil - which would have been hard to pull off. Everyone thinks that JO would get more in the summer, but because we'd have to take even more back making a deal would be harder and next year's roster would be comprised of players received in that deal, and not our own FAs like Graham, Parker or Delfino. It's a matter of opinion if that's a good thing or not, but BC and his team probably weighed that against the handful of deals that might be possible come summer.
This is close to how it went down, but not quite right.
When a trade occurs, both teams get to construct the trade independently of how the other team does. So for us, it was JO for Marion and Banks, and then Moon for nada. But for Miami, it was JO and Moon for Marion, and Banks for nada. So Miami gets the full amount of Banks deal as an exception, while Toronto gets the full amount of the Moon deal as an exception.
The biggest reason I bring this up is because the second trade couldn't occur as you suggested. Traded player exceptions (or so we will call it, though such a thing doesn't really exist) can't be combined with players, as would be required in your second deal.