Okafor no longer untouchable - Bonnell

[spectre]

http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2009/02/okafor-no-longer-untouchable.html


I'm not saying Okafor will be traded or even that it's likely. I'm saying with conviction he's no longer untouchable, despite a contract that averages about $12 million per season.Obtaining Diop might help that along. If we decide to go that route then Lopez would probably have been a better choice last draft...but since I don't have a time machine is it realisticaly feasible to pull a big out of the upcoming draft without winning the lottery?

Have to say the last few games he has really disappointed me. It's like Howard totally shot his confidence in the first game after ASW and now he seems unsure of everything he does, esp. offensively.

[TattoodCats4life]

Frankly this time next year I'm not sure if we'll have ANY pre-larry players...Hopefully he likes crash and no one offers enough for him...but whatever it takes to snag a home court advantage seed I'm all for.

[Chef]

pre-ray vs dj debate the biggest debate on this board was keep re-sign mek or trade him.

[Slam]

since I don't have a time machine is it realisticaly feasible to pull a big out of the upcoming draft without winning the lottery?
What do you think we would be looking for? A defensive minded/rebounding/shot blocking big or an offensive/rebounding/agile big?

[SirBobcat]

What do you think we would be looking for? A defensive minded/rebounding/shot blocking big or an offensive/rebounding/agile big?

Offensive/rebounding/agile big. You need both of those kinds of those players and Okafor is already the defensive/rebounding/shot blocking big. I would package 2-3 first rounders and Felton to get Griffin...Seriously he's that big of a deal for this team and it is time to roll the dice for a huge reward or failure.

[amour217]

Offensive/rebounding/agile big. You need both of those kinds of those players and Okafor is already the defensive/rebounding/shot blocking big. I would package 2-3 first rounders and Felton to get Griffin...Seriously he's that big of a deal for this team and it is time to roll the dice for a huge reward or failure.

The only Griffin we'd be getting is Peter Griffin...and we've already got one delusional fat man on our team

[Chef]

the only problem there is we will now have 2 undersized centers or 2 pf's whichever way you want to look at it. we need a true scoring 4 and a camby/chandler-like center. now, if they only grew on trees....

[spectre]

What do you think we would be looking for? A defensive minded/rebounding/shot blocking big or an offensive/rebounding/agile big?

Pre Diop I would have probably said best available but leaning strongly towards a defender. Since we're stuck with the big guy though (and likely for a good while) I'd lean towards a offensive/rebounding type.

It'd be nice if Lex would make a huge leap this summer and we could get best available, but that's probably unrealistic.

How's the choices late lottery? You know I don't know squat about college.

[SirBobcat]

the only problem there is we will now have 2 undersized centers or 2 pf's whichever way you want to look at it. we need a true scoring 4 and a camby/chandler-like center. now, if they only grew on trees....

Dwight Howard is 6 foot 11 and 265 lbs and he's considered the best center in the NBA. Griffin is 6 foot 10 and 251 lbs...and like Howard he has the frame to add some big time muscle. So yeah, you were saying?

[Slam]

This team is SO unbalanced right now.

Lets assume that If we trade EO50, Diop should start at the 5 (got to get a return on his contract some how).

Boris really has to play the 4 because we have seen that he isn't as effective at the 3 - and besides, Crash plays the 3.

So would we draft someone like Thabeet when we already have a similar version of him on the roster already getting paid in Diop?

Or do we go with someone like Monroe who might be too like Diaw?

Who knows, maybe we'll end up trading EO50 to the Pistons for Iverson and Sheed.

What LB wants after all, LB gets.

[Slam]

Dwight Howard is 6 foot 11 and 265 lbs and he's considered the best center in the NBA. Griffin is 6 foot 10 and 251 lbs...and like Howard he has the frame to add some big time muscle. So yeah, you were saying?
Griffin isn't a sixteenth of the defender Howard is.

It's like comparing Howard to Amare on D.

[spectre]

^ Unless LB can pull a rabbit out of his hat that Diop trade is looking REALLY bad.

But then again...no time machine.

Isn't Thabeet pretty much like Mek only bigger (same strengths/weaknesses)? I'd be all over him IF we are motivated to move Mek.

Will he fall that far?

[Slam]

^ Unless LB can pull a rabbit out of his hat that Diop trade is looking REALLY bad.

But then again...no time machine.
Totally agree. We've made our bed, now we need to lay in it. Can't go back so we just have to work with what we have.



Isn't Thabeet pretty much like Mek only bigger (same strengths/weaknesses)? I'd be all over him IF we are motivated to move Mek.

Will he fall that far

Pretty much the same other than not being as good a rebounder (even though he is huge). He's better from the line and over the last month shown an ability to hit a mid range J. He's loads better than what he was when he 1st started at UConn showing a willingness to improve.

Some think he'll be the 2nd name off the board come draft night.

[TattoodCatswife]

I'm for getting rid of anyone on this team for the chance at getting to the playoffs

[spectre]

Well on the positive side we'll draft before Mek's BYC comes off. IMO that's where we're going to have to find at least some help in trying to replace Mek; no way we can trade him in for an upgrade.

I also wonder how much value he'll have in trade. Other teams know his limitations (and his salary!) just like we do.

[Chef]

thank you slam. you beat me to it.

[spectre]

Since Elgin Baylor is no longer a GM I doubt anyone would give up the 1st pick, and if recent history means anything we'd probably catch hell trying to move up into the top 5.

Too bad we won't have capspace...I think both Milwaukee and Washington will give up their picks this year just to stay under the luxury tax.

[coordinator0]

This team is SO unbalanced right now.

Lets assume that If we trade EO50, Diop should start at the 5 (got to get a return on his contract some how).

Boris really has to play the 4 because we have seen that he isn't as effective at the 3 - and besides, Crash plays the 3.

So would we draft someone like Thabeet when we already have a similar version of him on the roster already getting paid in Diop?

Or do we go with someone like Monroe who might be too like Diaw?

Who knows, maybe we'll end up trading EO50 to the Pistons for Iverson and Sheed.

What LB wants after all, LB gets.

AI and Sheed are both FA's this summer. I think that they'd try and make a trade for him though, but they don't have much to offer in return. And Okafor for Sheed is not fair value. We'd virtually have nobody down low if heed played the C, he likes edging out to the 3pt line A LOT. IMO we'd need a big rebounder for Emeka, and that would enable us to play like a slightly smaller version of Orlando w/ 2 SF/PF combos on the floor. With less 3pt shooting of course. I still like Kaman...

[TattoodCats4life]

There will be someone who wants the Big O during the summer, he's in an exceptional place with his double double average for so long, and to be frank he would probably come out of his shell some under different circumstances. Seriously, if Howard had to go to college for a year, and came in the 2005 draft instead of 2004 draft the NBA would be significantly different...Cant say who we would have picked, and who knows maybe we wouldn't have made the deal with the Clippers to get their pick....but most importantly Meka wouldnt constantly get the "your second best" to Howard bull. He is a different player, better in a few ways, worse in a lot of ways.

But as far as us moving him, I seriously think we should find a team who would take him and Felton or Him and <shutter> Wallace and send us back an 18mil/year all star and a project to fill the holes we didnt draft filler for.

[spectre]

^ It's not like it's a well kept secret amongst only us Bobcats' fans that Mek is extremely limited offensively, either is close to or leading in getting his shots blocked, is undersized for the 5 but isn't mobile enough for the 4.

Factor in his contract and I don't see us getting an all star no matter who we add in...unless said all star has his own set of issues.

[BETCATS]

my answer to this and all rumors:

wordswordswordswordswordswords!

I am a man of actions. People can write bull shit.

Example:

The Bobcats have signed key free agent Lebron James

The Bobcats have traded Sean May and Nazr for Dwayne Wade



Is any of what i wrote true?
Hell no.

Okafor is staying, this is just another example of people are reading into a picture book.

[arh1109]

I had the same feelings about okafor after the phx game. His weaknesses are definitely exposed under the great centers of the league. What do u guys think about Oak + our 1st round pick to Minnesota for Jefferson given that he makes a successful recovery?

[teej]

I had the same feelings about okafor after the phx game. His weaknesses are definitely exposed under the great centers of the league. What do u guys think about Oak + our 1st round pick to Minnesota for Jefferson given that he makes a successful recovery?

I have my doubts about his health, but if we got a good deal out of it...

[LB4President]

I'm not opposed to trading Okafor, but I would rather us somehow get rid of Nazr and bring in another true center to play alongside Okafor. I thought Diop would eventually advance to the point where he started at the center with Okafor at the four, Diaw at the three, and Crash making a statement for sixth man of the year. That doesn't seem to be panning out.

That being said I think this summer/draft we should make another run at Kaman. I would be fine with him alongside Okafor or if we had to include Okafor in the deal itself. He can provide some low post scoring and defend the huge centers without giving up the shot blocking or rebounding Okafor provides.

Keep an eye on BJ Mullens out of Ohio State. The kid is huge and has alot of upside, but may not be ready to contribute right away.

[SWedd523]

Well we could feasibly trade Mek and get a much better return than we could anyone save Crash or Ray. If we trade Mek we have to go for either one of two things.. depending on our draft strategy:

Plan A (my wish IF we somehow traded him): Trade Mek for a different quality big, possibly a little older as we're hoping Ajinca's lanky ass can develop. Or somehow find a way to send Mek to Phoenix or Toronto for one of their bigs in a sign and trade so they get a good return on pieces that are "supposedly" leaving soon. Then, we take our pick of the upcoming SG's and call it a day.

Plan B (my least favorite): Trade Mek for a starting SG that has primetime ability and can take over a game on the offensive end. AI, Ben Gordon, Rip Hamilton, etc. Then, we find a way to draft either Griffin or Thabeet in the draft.


I could see us getting better in either situation, but I'd muchhh rather do Play A

[TattoodCats4life]

Well we could feasibly trade Mek and get a much better return than we could anyone save Crash or Ray. If we trade Mek we have to go for either one of two things.. depending on our draft strategy:

Plan A (my wish IF we somehow traded him): Trade Mek for a different quality big, possibly a little older as we're hoping Ajinca's lanky ass can develop. Or somehow find a way to send Mek to Phoenix or Toronto for one of their bigs in a sign and trade so they get a good return on pieces that are "supposedly" leaving soon. Then, we take our pick of the upcoming SG's and call it a day.

Plan B (my least favorite): Trade Mek for a starting SG that has primetime ability and can take over a game on the offensive end. AI, Ben Gordon, Rip Hamilton, etc. Then, we find a way to draft either Griffin or Thabeet in the draft.


I could see us getting better in either situation, but I'd muchhh rather do Play A

I really don't get why everyone keeps mentioning developing Ajinca as a center, i mean other than the fact that he is 7 1-1/2. He is actually a 3 trapped in a long long body, Larry has been putting him through the same paces as Wallace and Cartier lately (this is per conversation with Lexy, not tabloid BS) to improve his ball handling skills. Imagine a 3 who doesnt need to jump to play above the rim ;)

[teej]

I really don't get why everyone keeps mentioning developing Ajinca as a center, i mean other than the fact that he is 7 1-1/2. He is actually a 3 trapped in a long long body, Larry has been putting him through the same paces as Wallace and Cartier lately (this is per conversation with Lexy, not tabloid BS) to improve his ball handling skills. Imagine a 3 who doesnt need to jump to play above the rim ;)

Like Durant?

[SWedd523]

I really don't get why everyone keeps mentioning developing Ajinca as a center, i mean other than the fact that he is 7 1-1/2. He is actually a 3 trapped in a long long body, Larry has been putting him through the same paces as Wallace and Cartier lately (this is per conversation with Lexy, not tabloid BS) to improve his ball handling skills. Imagine a 3 who doesnt need to jump to play above the rim ;)

I personally agree with you man, but to be honest, I'd love to see a uptempo game where his huge ass is our Center. There are all sorts of athletic wings. Imagine a Center who can cross you up, beat you down the court, shoot the 3, and post you up? Don't let me salivate too much;)



p.s. Will he actually develop into that? I have my own doubts.. But we could always have a defensive Center (hello Diop) and an offensive one (that's you Lexy).

[LB4President]

I think Lexy could be like a Jared Jefferies with three point range. Tall enough to play center in an uptempo, small ball lineup. But he is also still quick enough to guard the perimeter. Lets just hope Larry Brown doesn't force him so far out of his game like he did to Darko.

[dav7z]

Bonnell seems to think Mek is no longer untouchable.


I do think he has a tradable contract.
I all so think he has reached his cyling . Can he take us deep into the playoffs . I don't think he can after watchin him play against larger centers . I all so don't think he has the range or foot speed to be a star p/f



http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2009/02/okafor-no-longer-untouchable.html

Your thoughts on Mek???????

[BigMike]

I guess I don’t understand why everyone hates on Oak? He is ranked between 6th and 11th in the league for centers (depending on the weights of the ranking and if they count blocks).

With the speed of the team that LB built we would literally KILL a giant center like Shaq, Yao or Diop if they tried to play as many minutes as Okafor does. Is he the best center in the league? No, but he had to face off against 3 of the top 4 centers in the league since the all star break, and seeing Howard twice means 4 of the last 6 games he stood next to the elite in the league. Sure he got beat a lot but he held his own. I just don’t think there is any way we are going to (realistically) get anyone to post better numbers in a LB system.

Ilgauskas or Jefferson are not free this year are they?

[Mustachio]

I guess I don’t understand why everyone hates on Oak? He is ranked between 6th and 11th in the league for centers (depending on the weights of the ranking and if they count blocks).

With the speed of the team that LB built we would literally KILL a giant center like Shaq, Yao or Diop if they tried to play as many minutes as Okafor does. Is he the best center in the league? No, but he had to face off against 3 of the top 4 centers in the league since the all star break, and seeing Howard twice means 4 of the last 6 games he stood next to the elite in the league. Sure he got beat a lot but he held his own. I just don’t think there is any way we are going to (realistically) get anyone to post better numbers in a LB system.

Ilgauskas or Jefferson are not free this year are they?


I one hundred thousand percent agree with this post. EVERY single person in this forum knows that Shaq, Yao, Dwight Howard are 3 of the most imposing centers in NBA history... based on size alone these guys would go down as greats.... add in their skills and ability and Mek just played 3 of the best players in the NBA and held his own. WE also know that Mek isnt ever going to be in the conversation with those 3 players so what the hell does everyone expect!

Emeka Okafor is so far from any single one of this teams problems its not funny. Find something else to blame for this losing because it isn't Mek. He is exactly what we think he is. about a top 10 Center that plays consistently good defense.... When are you people gonna realize he isnt Shaq?

[playoffs...PLAYOFFS?]

Well said..

Here's one more thing to take into account.. Mek has been healthy as of late. You could blame the extra weight he put in 2005 to some of the issues he had then. But he has played in almost every game since 2006. He has a record 93 games in a row.

Then take a look at this:

How healthy has Yao been? Or Shaq?
How much money do they make?

Mek is a GREAT value for what we pay for him..he provides quality minutes and keeps himself healthy

Yes, he is an above average center, not the best but definitely better than people want to give credit to him.


This aside.. Bonnell's blog on Emeka is one of the stupidest ones I've read. It's been clear over and over again that Jordan will trade anyone on the team. I don't seem to recall that Jordan ever said that Emeka was the only "untouchable" piece.

[davcbow]

I guess I don’t understand why everyone hates on Oak? He is ranked between 6th and 11th in the league for centers (depending on the weights of the ranking and if they count blocks).

With the speed of the team that LB built we would literally KILL a giant center like Shaq, Yao or Diop if they tried to play as many minutes as Okafor does. Is he the best center in the league? No, but he had to face off against 3 of the top 4 centers in the league since the all star break, and seeing Howard twice means 4 of the last 6 games he stood next to the elite in the league. Sure he got beat a lot but he held his own. I just don’t think there is any way we are going to (realistically) get anyone to post better numbers in a LB system.

Ilgauskas or Jefferson are not free this year are they?

I dont hate on Mek, I do however think in order for us to ever win a championship we will need a player that can challenge the Howards, the Yao's and the Shaq's of the league. Watching him play Phoenix the other night Shaq was pushing him around like a rag doll. We dont need to get rid of him but we do need a bigger big to compete against the bigger bigs...:cool:

[teej]

I dont hate on Mek, I do however think in order for us to ever win a championship we will need a player that can challenge the Howards, the Yao's and the Shaq's of the league. Watching him play Phoenix the other night Shaq was pushing him around like a rag doll. We dont need to get rid of him but we do need a bigger big to compete against the bigger bigs...:cool:

One not named Diop

[Mustachio]

I dont hate on Mek, I do however think in order for us to ever win a championship we will need a player that can challenge the Howards, the Yao's and the Shaq's of the league. Watching him play Phoenix the other night Shaq was pushing him around like a rag doll. We dont need to get rid of him but we do need a bigger big to compete against the bigger bigs...:cool:


i hate to break it to you, but Shaq has pushed around nearly every single player the NBA has thrown at him. They have developed entire defenses around him for 15 years now. He is a freak, a monster, a beast in every sense of the word. They don't grow Shaq's on trees.... so I don't know where yall want to go out and get this mythical Shaq and Howard stopper from, because I'm absolutely sure that he doesn't exist. Those guys are physical specimens that come around every so often and the teams that get them are lucky.

Mek doesn't have the size to deal with Shaq or Howard. He has however handled Howard when he matches up one on one. Sure Howard has gotten points and some nice dunks, but thats gonna happen. Mek is a smarter player than Howard and it shows... unfortunately Howards "freakability" outweighs that.

My main point is that Bonnell, and anyone else suggesting Mek needs to be replaced, is just flat out wrong. He is as good as we can get right now and we should be happy as hell that we don't line up every night with the 20 other starting Centers in this league that can't handle Meks jock.

You don't stop the Shaq's and Howard's of the league...you send Mek out to contain them and make them work for it, and you stop the rest of the team.

[BigMike]

20 other starting Centers in this league that can't handle Meks jock.


ESPN Hollinger's Player Statistics for each position. We only make the lists 2 times. For centers we have the #10 ranked Center in Oak. For small forwards we have the number 9th ranked Crash.

Before we even THINK about moving either of those two players we need to take care of our bench.

21 Alexis Ajinca --- 1.3 mill bench rider
42 Sean May --- 3.6mill QO next year that we should NOT make
6 Nazr Mohammed --- 6.5mill next year bench rider
7 DeSagana Diop --- 6.0 mill and he doesn’t look at the basket

[Slam]

what the hell does everyone expect!
For what he is being paid I rightfully expect more.

[Mustachio]

For what he is being paid I rightfully expect more.


He doesn't get paid more than any of the top 9 Centers ranked above him.

I don't know what else you expect him to do. He isn't getting paid Dhoward money and he isnt gonna give us Dhoward game. thats just the way it is... but he isn't even close to the Bobcats problem.

[Slam]

You think he should be paid the same as guys like Bosh, Jefferson, Amare, Bynum, what LMA is about to be paid?

I'm not suggesting he is the problem, I'm saying that he is (by far) the player we have invested the most into - both with time and money, and with that comes high expectations.

[davcbow]

My main point is that Bonnell, and anyone else suggesting Mek needs to be replaced, is just flat out wrong. He is as good as we can get right now and we should be happy as hell that we don't line up every night with the 20 other starting Centers in this league that can't handle Meks jock.

Im not saying replace him at all, Im saying get someone that can better handle the bigger bigs when we play them.


You don't stop the Shaq's and Howard's of the league...you send Mek out to contain them and make them work for it, and you stop the rest of the team.

If you remember we were 0-4 in those games this last time around. So we didnt contain them at all...:cool:

[BigMike]

1. Jermaine O'Neal, Toronto, $21.37million.
2. Shaquille O'Neal, Phoenix, $21million.
3. Yao Ming, Houston, $15.07million.
4. Rasheed Wallace, $13.93million.
5. Dwight Howard, Orlando, $13.76million
.
.
.
16. Emeka Okafor, Charlotte, $9.54 million


I think we DO get what we paid for with him.

[Slam]

You are wrongly comparing the 1st year of EO50's contract to the last or at least final years of other players contracts (excluding Howard).

EO50 is set to make $14,487,500 in his final year.

But hey, if you are happy paying that sort of money to a limited scorer who is a liability at the line, has average hands, goes up softly from a stationary position and is has his shot blocked MORE THAN ANY OTHER PLAYER IN THE NBA - then power to you!

Personally I'd like more bang for my buck.

[BigMike]

You are wrongly comparing the 1st year of EO50's contract to the last or at least final years of other players contracts (excluding Howard).

But hes IN the first year of his contract. In 5 years i expect he will be a much better player, practice and all that. So i dont see how it is wrong to compare what a player is actualy getting paid vs thier productivity on the court.

[Chef]

ouch...virtual smackdown

[Slam]

But hes IN the first year of his contract. In 5 years i expect he will be a much better player, practice and all that. So i dont see how it is wrong to compare what a player is actualy getting paid vs thier productivity on the court.
He's in the 1st year of his NEW contract. He's already HAD an NBA contract.

So, a guy who is essentially the exact same player today as he was when he played for UConn and has been over his 5 year NBA carrer is all of a sudden going to become "a much better player" because of "practice and all that"??

[spectre]

It's a hard nut to crack. Right now he's probably worth this year's contract and next years...but once he gets into the latter seasons he's going to be way overpaid unless he gets some agression and stops letting guys like Howard intimidate him.

Can he do it? He's not in 5 seasons now, but he's had crap for coaching.

BTW, you guys are saying that "everyone" gets beasted by those guys...didn't Dwight have a CAREER game vs. Mek in the one right after the ASW? Wouldn't someone like Haywood (at a little more than half the price) do at least as decent defensively vs. those players? At least relative to their salary vs. Mek's?

The FO would be negligent not to look at other options.

[Slam]

Over the past 5 years I have been as big of a supporter of EO50's as anyone, but it's a business and we should be in the business of winning. If being bogged down by the contract of a good but not outstanding players contract and that hampers what we can and can't do then we need to try and right that ship.

Like Spectre said, if we could get a Varejao/Boone/Haywood/Rasho/Andersen/Gadzuric/Kwame type for half as much who might be able to add as much as EO50 will while
A) bringing back a player like Harden
and
B) creating cap flexibility
then we would be remiss to not explore it.

[Mustachio]

It's a hard nut to crack. Right now he's probably worth this year's contract and next years...but once he gets into the latter seasons he's going to be way overpaid unless he gets some agression and stops letting guys like Howard intimidate him.

Can he do it? He's not in 5 seasons now, but he's had crap for coaching.

BTW, you guys are saying that "everyone" gets beasted by those guys...didn't Dwight have a CAREER game vs. Mek in the one right after the ASW? Wouldn't someone like Haywood (at a little more than half the price) do at least as decent defensively vs. those players? At least relative to their salary vs. Mek's?

The FO would be negligent not to look at other options.


If you watched that game... and you might not have been able to... Mek didnt even come close to giving up most of those points to Howard. that game, Howard beasted on everyone we threw at him.

Again... Mek isnt Howard and doesnt get paid like Howard either. IF you guys are gonna sit around and whine that we don't have a player that can shut down Howard... then there is no pleasing you. Its not gonna happen. In case you haven't noticed... every single team in the league has a hard time stopping him. Its starting to sound like the Democratic National Convention in here... everyone wants change, but no one has any good feasible ideas. Im not trying to be a douche here, I just don't see where discrediting one of the answers to the problem here has anything to do with actually fixing the problem. So no one take that personally please, I'm pissed at the situation too. I just think that its ridiculous to blame things on Emeka (who has shown great improvement this year in my opinion) after he just got roughed up by three of the most physically dominating players we have ever seen. Mek is a guarenteed double double, and gets paid accordingly.

But I guess since Adam Morrisons gone we have to find a new player to blame everything on.

[spectre]

I did watch that game and Mek was INTIMIDATED by Howard. He played scared, especially offensively. He played the same way vs. Yao and the same against Shaq.

I don't think he played him that bad defensively, but at the least he could have made him put some effort out on the other side of the ball.

The question which I posed though that Slam reiterated on...wouldn't Haywood, Varajao, etc. do as well? Wouldn't a young guy like Lopez (please, do NOT turn this into a DJ vs. Lopez debate) who can at least match him offensively and also at least equal him on boards & blocks while on a rookie scale salary do just as good?

[davcbow]

Mek didnt even come close to giving up most of those points to Howard. that game, Howard beasted on everyone we threw at him.

IF you guys are gonna sit around and whine that we don't have a player that can shut down Howard... then there is no pleasing you. Its not gonna happen. In case you haven't noticed... every single team in the league has a hard time stopping him.

I'm pissed at the situation too. I just think that its ridiculous to blame things on Emeka (who has shown great improvement this year in my opinion) after he just got roughed up by three of the most physically dominating players we have ever seen. Mek is a guarenteed double double, and gets paid accordingly.

Got to at least try to solve the situation. We all are intelligent and we all know the deal with Mek. Im not cutting Mek down at all but he is limited as to what he can do and who he can easily defend and who he has a hard time against. If we cant solve the situation then we stick with what we got. I like Mek, he was our very first draft pick but we do have to try....:cool:

[Mustachio]

if we are considering that Lopez is the answer to our problems... im freaking leaving.

nah i get what you guys mean by contracts. not having Mek, means we can have a Lopez type and something else instead of one above average not great guy. I just happen to think that Meks contract really isnt that bad.

And I would also like to reiterate my stance on trades. NO ONE IS EVER UNTOUCHABLE in my book. I agree that not exploring trades for any player is poor management. If we could get an adequate replacement for Mek and bring in another player that adds something positive I would be all for it. But like every trade idea discussed in here... its not that easy, and i really don't think that option exist for us.


I think the real problem here is something i thought was fixed but doesnt appear to be now. Confidence. I thought bringing in playoff guys and Larry Brown would change the team's attitude. It still seems though that we go out most nights and assume the role of league bitch. We dont have any confidence. how can we fix that?

[Slam]

Why are you turning this into "Okafor Vs Howard" Mustachio? That's not the point here.

It's not like we play the Magic every night and it's Howard that's blocking Okafors shot attempts. It's not Howard night after night who makes Okafor go up softly. It's no one other than Okafor who continues to be a liability at the line.

We are just calling a spade a spade - it has nothing to do with anyone Vs anyone or being "beasted".

EO50 is a good player and if he was being paid good money Vs great money I wouldn't have a problem.

[spectre]

Yeah, that's all we're saying. This is no "OMG Mek Sucks. We Have to Dump His Ass Now" thing. Cost vs. what they provide, and is it enough to take the steps we want to take. I was all for re-signing Mek, but as he's had so little progression offensively (still blame it on lack of coaching) I expected him to start getting better under LB. For a while there it was looking like he was, but now he's back to being passive.

I think everyone will agree that if he can start playing more consistently like he was earlier during which we saw the potential of this team before Crash got so grievously attacked then he'll be worth that contract. He needs to progress though. I have no problems if we go thru the summer and into next season with him and this same group trying to give it a chance to gel and make noise. I still have faith they can do that.

Still, we need to listen to anything (and hopefully more than the lollipop will have a say on when to pull the trigger).

[spectre]

It's not Howard night after night who makes Okafor go up softly. It's no one other than Okafor who continues to be a liability at the line.

We are just calling a spade a spade - it has nothing to do with anyone Vs anyone or being "beasted".

EO50 is a good player and if he was being paid good money Vs great money I wouldn't have a problem.

Goes back to what we asked all along: Can agression be taught?

And yeah...the FT has been killing us lately. Thing is it seems it's a choice; work on big man skills or FTs. Wasn't he in that group with the trainer working on FTs (Crash/Felton is/was) but dropped out to work with the big man coach?

[BigMike]

Why is this a Howard vs Oak conversation?
Because Howard is one of the only players that beats Oak in every category.

Oak is one of 7 players averaging a double double this year, and only 4 of them are centers. Among the centers in the league he is; 7th for points per game, 5th in field goal percentage, on offence and 4th in boards per game, 7th in blocks per game for defense. Then while doing all that he is only 21is in personal fouls per game. He is a well rounded quality player that is a little aggression away from being elite. To get someone that can consistently beat him on BOTH sides of the court you need to get a Howard. That’s why we disagree with you so hard.

To that end I would like to point out that if your looking for someplace to cut there are at least 9 other people on the team that would be a better place to start.

[Slam]

Wasn't he in that group with the trainer working on FTs (Crash/Felton is/was) but dropped out to work with the big man coach?
Yup - Capel's free throw school. I was shocked to hear that EO50 decided not to stay in it. It obviously did wonders for Swish and Crash.

Boris is also in it now and he is up to 80% from the line in Feb.

[Slam]

To that end I would like to point out that if your looking for someplace to cut there are at least 9 other people on the team that would be a better place to start.
And none of those nine are earning even CLOSE to what EO50 is earning and for the length of time he is earning it.

But hey, lets cut Bling and "'Lil Sean". We'll do wonders with the extra 500k we'd save.


Oak is one of 7 players averaging a double double this year, and only 4 of them are centers. Among the centers in the league he is; 7th for points per game, 5th in field goal percentage, on offence and 4th in boards per game, 7th in blocks per game for defense.
And yet he still has a massive vagina.

[teej]

And yet he still has a massive vagina.

HAHAHAHA

Sad but true :(

[Mustachio]

And yet he still has a massive vagina.


Go Bobcats.

[GoBobs]

Oak is very good. If we trade him we need to get a lot back including a good rebounder and at least a top 5 pick. The biggest problem when he faces bigger centers is you need extra fight for that assignment and oak doesn't seem to always have it. Some nights he does though. We can't expect anyone to stop Dwight White when he is allowed to lead with his shoulder bump his guy three steps and is hitting the baby hook, you have to double there and rotate better back to shooters then we did the second game.

Don't look now but Diop just had a whale of a game. Diop is very young despite his considerable experience in the leauge and is only going to get better. I think Diop at center and Oak at the PF would be nice then we can bring in Lex at PF off the bench.

[teej]

After the way Mek responded to LB's criticism, I think we just need to chew Mek out before he goes up against Dwight, Yao, and Shaq. Oh and getting him and Ray in a slapping contest pre-game was a great idea to whoever came up with it. Oak is no longer a twig and is back to an Oak...for now

[BigMike]

Goes back to what we asked all along: Can agression be taught?

Apparently all you have to do is have Coach yell at him to dunk the ball.

[Ghost Kat]

Honestly who in the league is equal to what Okafor does for this team that we could actually trade for? OK50 is durable, hasn't missed a game in two yrs. Blocks shots , gets rebounds...averages a double double for his career. His offense has increase greatly this year. Still needs to work on not getting blocked so much, But I can live with a couple blocks a games since he gets that many on the other end. I have been very impressed with Okafor this year, Very happy we resigned him...

[BETCATS]

Honestly who in the league is equal to what Okafor does for this team that we could actually trade for? OK50 is durable, hasn't missed a game in two yrs. Blocks shots , gets rebounds...averages a double double for his career. His offense has increase greatly this year. Still needs to work on not getting blocked so much, But I can live with a couple blocks a games since he gets that many on the other end. I have been very impressed with Okafor this year, Very happy we resigned him...


what he said

[BigMike]

what he said

What he said, about what he said... only more so.