Charlotte Bobcats @ Golden State Warriers 2/27/09

[davcbow]

Can we make history again tonight?

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/scorecard/nbanews.asp?articleID=254182

I think we can...:cool:

21Alexis Ajinca (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/alexis_ajinca/index.html?nav=page) C
14D.J. Augustin (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dj_augustin/index.html?nav=page) G
19Raja Bell (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/raja_bell/index.html?nav=page) G
32Boris Diaw (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/boris_diaw/index.html?nav=page) F-C
7DeSagana Diop (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/desagana_diop/index.html?nav=page) C
20Raymond Felton (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/raymond_felton/index.html?nav=page) G
5Juwan Howard (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/juwan_howard/index.html?nav=page) F
1Cartier Martin (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/cartier_martin/index.html?nav=page) F
42Sean May (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/sean_may/index.html?nav=page) F
6Nazr Mohammed (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/nazr_mohammed/index.html?nav=page) C
50Emeka Okafor (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/emeka_okafor/index.html?nav=page) C-F
10Vladimir Radmanovic (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/vladimir_radmanovic/index.html?nav=page) F
44Sean Singletary (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/sean_singletary/index.html?nav=page) G
3Gerald Wallace (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/gerald_wallace/index.html?nav=page) F

Golden State Warriers:

7Kelenna Azubuike (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kelenna_azubuike/index.html?nav=page) F-G
18Marco Belinelli (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/marco_belinelli/index.html?nav=page) G
15Andris Biedrins (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andris_biedrins/index.html?nav=page) C
6Jamal Crawford (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jamal_crawford/index.html?nav=page) G
33Jermareo Davidson (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jermareo_davidson/index.html?nav=page) F
8Monta Ellis (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/monta_ellis/index.html?nav=page) G
1Stephen Jackson (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/stephen_jackson/index.html?nav=page) F-G
31Rob Kurz (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/rob_kurz/index.html?nav=page) F
50Corey Maggette (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/corey_maggette/index.html?nav=page) F
22Anthony Morrow (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/anthony_morrow/index.html?nav=page) G
4Anthony Randolph (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/anthony_randolph/index.html?nav=page) F
21Ronny Turiaf (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ronny_turiaf/index.html?nav=page) F
23C.J. Watson (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/cj_watson/index.html?nav=page) G
5Marcus Williams (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/marcus_williams/index.html?nav=page) G
2Brandan Wright (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/brandan_wright/index.html?nav=page) F

I think we can win this key road trip game tonight in Oakland for the first time in our short history....:cool:

[teej]

If we don't win, then I'm not sure if I will be more shocked or dumbfounded.

Lets Go Cats

[spectre]

It's looking good so far as vid links to the game...already found 4 possibles.

http://www.pptvu.com:81/en/566.html

http://www.pptvu.com:81/en/623.html

http://www.pptvu.com:81/en/589.html

http://www.andromedanet.com/tvtuner_ps11b.html

Last is IE only...and the next to last is tvants.

I think there's also going to be a sopcast link (site I'm looking at is saying one will be available).

I'll settle for one good one.

[Ghost Kat]

Game is on Ch. 38 in the Fayetteville/ Raeford area

[G-Force for MVP]

if you need a link go to channelsurfing.net

[Ghost Kat]

Golden State is a running team like the Suns but they don't have the same amount of fire power. They aren't a push over team no matter what record they have. This is probably goingto be a good game tonight...I hope we come to play tonight.

[spectre]

Hah,both NY and Chicago lost...and Milwaukee is down in the 2nd vs NOLA! If we can take care of some business tonight we can gain some ground!

[davcbow]

Game is on channel 50 TWC in the Apex RDU area...:cool:

[ziggy]

The Enemy's game thread --> Golden State of Mind (http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2009/2/27/774719/open-thread-warriors-vs-bo)

With a lot of the teams above us losing tonight, this is a chance for us to gain some ground.

We need this win!

[Ghost Kat]

I think they just said on the telecats we are only three games out of the 8th spot. Thats pretty good news seeing as we lost 4 out of our last five. I thought we were just about out, If We can make the playoffs after so much turn over of players and upheval (sp) it's just a credit to LB and his coaching staff.

[davcbow]

I think they just said on the telecats we are only three games out of the 8th spot. Thats pretty good news seeing as we lost 4 out of our last five. I thought we were just about out, If We can make the playoffs after so much turn over of players and upheval (sp) it's just a credit to LB and his coaching staff.

Upheaval also telecast .... lol I have spell check :p

[spectre]

http://atdhe.net/live-tv-4099.html

Working great!

[davcbow]

Wow I wonder if they are gonna start this game or not its 10:40 pm and hasnt started yet... lol :cool:

[TattoodCats4life]

Bennett Salvatore -> bobcats will have shit calls all night.

[teej]

sloppy so far, not promising

[Ghost Kat]

Upheaval also telecast .... lol I have spell check :p

I just saw the telecats one... but its kinda funny since I am watching them on TV, Usually its off the net... But thanks

[Ghost Kat]

I knew Jackson was going to be tough tonight, He's play'd pretty good his last few games.

[davcbow]

I just saw the telecats one... but its kinda funny since I am watching them on TV, Usually its off the net... But thanks

That was funny but I didnt see the telecats one because I thought you were talking about something new the cats may have had... I said hummm that must be something new....

To the game, the guys need to watch the dang passing, GW 2 mis-Q's in a row...:cool:

[amour217]

Biedrins is like the Ann Coulter of the NBA...his adam's apple is HUGE

[Ghost Kat]

6 TO"S already>:(

[spectre]

Crash seems a step slow tonight.

I get pissed off everytime we play GSW and CJ had a good game. We could of had him for FREE.

[Ghost Kat]

Great start by Felton

[SirBobcat]

You want to talk about slow? Okafor is looking super slow.

[teej]

Ray on fire

[spectre]

You want to talk about slow? Okafor is looking super slow.

Given the competition tonight...wouldn't you think he should be dominating?

[Ghost Kat]

Horrible pass by Felton...Even worse foul

[amour217]

Ray on fire

Seriously...if Sean May cut one over there on the bench, the whole building would ignite

[SirBobcat]

Given the competition tonight...wouldn't you think he should be dominating?

Yes he should be dominating. He's much strong than Biedrins.

[spectre]

Ugh. We should be up more.

[amour217]

Yes he should be dominating. He's much strong than Biedrins.

Mek is probably scared of Biedrins' adam's apple...forget that, it's an Adam's Orchard

[spectre]

Rad can put it on the floor and hit the midrange!

[teej]

we should be dominating, but we cant stop fouling...seriously

[davcbow]

Mek looks like he is letting things get to him again tonight, I noticed this same thing last game too...:cool:

[SirBobcat]

The Impaler For The Slam!

[davcbow]

DJ looking good to start out tonight...:cool:

[spectre]

That was some NICE D by Diop then! He played the double and then got back to block his guy who'd went to the basket.

Also a great look by DJ to take it to the hole, adjust and then hit the mid baseline shot.

[Ghost Kat]

Martin tries to take atleast two charges a game ^-^... Still gets lost a lil on defense but i'm still happy we picked him up.

[teej]

Diop impressive so far tonight

[spectre]

Diop impressive so far tonight

THAT'S what big is supposed to do when the opponent's playing small forwards as Cs!!! Granted Mek has Turiaf & Biedrens, but all our bigs should be having a field day tonight.

[davcbow]

You know I think that when Diop has a off season with LB as his coach he just may turn out to be respectable on offense next season...:cool:

[spectre]

Isolating DJ at the top and spreading the floor for him. I like that, esp. if the refs will call the fouls.

Man he should have just took it to the hole. Least we kept Randolph from scoring.

[teej]

Good first half, love the scoring, hate the D

Step it up, heckuva half by Diop off the bench though

[davcbow]

61-55 at the half, good offense tonight but where is our defense?
LOL Sean May trying to be involved in the game. Go sit down Sean, go to the consession stand and get a milk shake and some hot wings....:cool:

[ohara831]

Very pleased with Diop tonight. 6 pts 3 reb and 3 blks in limited action. Very productive for the minutes played.

[Ghost Kat]

Good start to the game, The Subs got some big minutes and were productive.

[Slam]

Radman showing a lot more variety over the last few games than I ever thought he had. He's been a very good pick up for us.

How nice is it to have a bench!! All we need is a back up SG (or a SG good enough to make Raja the back up SG) and we would be pretty well balanced.

[teej]

bad start to the third...deja vu anyone?

[davcbow]

Miss a 2 footer, miss a 6 footer, hit a 22 footer but we blew the lead...:cool:

[davcbow]

Larry where's the freakin time out????

[SirBobcat]

Come on Okafor!

[spectre]

My God put Diop in.

[davcbow]

Ive seen Mek out of position at least 3 or 4 times tonight, 2 times this 3rd quarter... :cool:

[teej]

Okafor = Bitch

[NaSDNaS]

Hey guys I've been a bobcats fan since the beginning, I look at this forum a lot and have just decided to start posting because...

OKAFOR NEEDS TO GET MEAN!!

[SirBobcat]

What a horrible effort

[ohara831]

Ray has become a turnover machine this 3rd qtr.

[spectre]

Nice finish by Mek finally.

Just weather the storm guys.

[davcbow]

Mek coming back to life now but damn he missed the free throw...:cool:

[teej]

Jackson is a beast

wheres the D?? we're playing the other guys' game...again
we're having a bad third q...again
Okafor's a bitch...again
Raja is nonexistant...again

if we dont stop, we're going to lose...you know what

[NaSDNaS]

gah why didn't Diaw shoot that from the top of the key!?

[teej]

Rayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy for 3

[SirBobcat]

Diop, at least tonight, is doing a better job down low than Okafor defensively. I hope this trend doesn't continue!

[SirBobcat]

Beautiful rally to get the lead back! That was huge!

[teej]

excellent end to the third, keep it going into the fourth and we may survive...still not what we need

[davcbow]

Diop says let me play coach.... he is doing a great job tonight....:cool:

[spectre]

Way to close out the quarter on a 10 - 0 run! That had to have taken some air out of 'em...now we just need the bench to come in and play like they did in the 2nd and we take this!

[WarioVsMooChicken]

Diop is BEASTING on D and being a threat (thats not a typo) on offense.

KEEP HIM IN

[Bobcat4Ever]

Can I get a link?

[Ghost Kat]

What's Diop's career high??

[teej]

What's Diop's career high??

10 or 12

and the link is http://atdhe.net/live-tv-4099.html to who was asking

[davcbow]

Whats up with DJ and all the turnovers here in the 4th.... Settle down rookie...:cool:

[teej]

can we make a shot??

[spectre]

Apparently not.

Damn.

[SirBobcat]

this sucks! We don't want this game...and they should. If I was them, I would be wanting to prove some people wrong!

[davcbow]

Thank god for Radman for 3eeee, now play some friggen defense...:cool:

[teej]

do we have any of the following?

desire
effort
drive
balls
jumpers
ballers

?

[spectre]

There ya go...up 1!

[SirBobcat]

There's the heart!

[davcbow]

Back in the lead.... Damn what a sloppy game....:cool:

[teej]

this is pathetic...can both teams lose?

[kickazzz2000]

this is pathetic...can both teams lose?
Not if Felton can help it.

(HA! I made an unequivocally true statement..regardless of outcome!)

[kickazzz2000]

The fuck did DIAW shoot a 27 footer for? Pissing contest?

[SirBobcat]

Thanks for the call refs!

[teej]

diaw and felton are in the building...thats it

[teej]

RAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

what a bunch of calls!

[spectre]

Whew...we needed that!

[biz]

Welp. Felton went into hero mode, once again. Bad shot inside, bad jumper, but at least we got it back both times.

[Ghost Kat]

y:funkybanana:eeeeeeesssssssssss

[kickazzz2000]

Way to miss the first, oak! :rolleyes:

[teej]

Wtf???????????????????????

[biz]

Diiiiiiiiiiiaw For Threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Wow, does anyone else LOVE Juwan's enthusiasm? The mans been around forever, hasn't even played in the game, and he just goes ballistic when Boris nailed the 3. I love that.

[teej]

OH MY GODDDDDDDDDDDDD BORISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSs

[davcbow]

Did Boris just win us the game? :p

[grantleew]

I love Diaw!!!!! Now just don't let Jackson get the ball

[biz]

Wow.... just hit our three throws. PLEASE.

[teej]

make the FTs and lets move on please

dont draw this out...i dont need a heart attack

[biz]

GAME. woo. Wasn't pretty but a W is a W.

[teej]

GREAT game to watch at the end, thank you Boris, but lets not do this again pleaseeeeeeee

[SirBobcat]

Wow! Wow! Wow! Wow! Wow!

[spectre]

WOW what a nail biter!

Bobcats win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[timang]

Wow.... just hit our three throws. PLEASE.


don't worry boris hit his three throw ;)

[grantleew]

Oh my gosh that was hard to watch

[Ghost Kat]

And the crowd is silenced.........Good night and good luck :biggrin:

[SirBobcat]

These are the kind of wins the good teams get. Congratulations boys!

[timang]

WIN! wheww! :D

[G-Force for MVP]

great game

[spectre]

These are the kind of wins the good teams get. Congratulations boys!

Absolutely! At times we played like shit, but in the end we gutted it out and took the win at their house!

Great win! And we gained some good ground tonight!

[teej]

Now why cant we do that more often!

f we won half of our games within 5 points we'd be over 30 wins...

[WarioVsMooChicken]

woo that stressed me out

[davcbow]

Great win guys are first win in Oakland.... This is the kind of win that makes a team better.... :cool:

[ohara831]

Thank God for Diaw and tonight. Ray needs to come out in the final minute. I cant take his constantly needing to take ALL the final shots he can muster. Tonight taking 4 shots in the final minute and making only 1. Hate that Hero crap and LB needs to stop it. Great win otherwise.

[spectre]

Thank God for Diaw and tonight. Ray needs to come out in the final minute. I cant take his constantly needing to take ALL the final shots he can muster. Tonight taking 4 shots in the final minute and making only 1. Hate that Hero crap and LB needs to stop it. Great win otherwise.

Interesting. He did make one that put us in the lead and led off the drive on the final shot to get Boris open (course Raja made the extra pass to Boris). He also had a 3 pt play in there somewhere, but maybe it wasn't in the last minute. Overall I thought he had a pretty darn good game other than a few hiccups.

The whole game was real sloppy, but we stood up and won it like a team's supposed to. Very proud of all the guys.

[NaSDNaS]

Woot!!!!! Thank god for Diaw...hopefully this can be a win that catapults us to the playoffs!!

[SirBobcat]

Boy! Sacto whooped up on the Clippers. I hope the Clippers don't come out angry for the game tomorrow.

[SirBobcat]

Obama made it on NBA TV's top 10 over Diaw's game winning 3...That's crap!

[davcbow]

Is 38-44 good enough for the 8th? Right now that what I see us finishing...:cool:

[teej]

Is 38-44 good enough for the 8th? Right now that what I see us finishing...:cool:

the way people are playing, maybe

hopefully

[etothet]

ohara831
Thank God for Diaw and tonight. Ray needs to come out in the final minute. I cant take his constantly needing to take ALL the final shots he can muster. Tonight taking 4 shots in the final minute and making only 1. Hate that Hero crap and LB needs to stop it. Great win otherwise.



Raymond played his butt off. He does what it takes to win. He had some turnovers but 3 of those turnovers were because Okafor and Diop mishandled the ball. I don't know what game you were watching. He was a hero.

[playoffs...PLAYOFFS?]

Thank God for Diaw and tonight. Ray needs to come out in the final minute. I cant take his constantly needing to take ALL the final shots he can muster. Tonight taking 4 shots in the final minute and making only 1. Hate that Hero crap and LB needs to stop it. Great win otherwise.

i respectfully disagree with everything stated in this

as spectre said, everything about felton in the last few mins of the game showed that he was clutch and look for assist.

i don't really see how DJ would have been a better option

anyhow, i'm still confused about the criticism against felton regardless of how well he might or might have not played. i think tonight felton showed he can also pass the ball in crunch time situations

[etothet]

[Welp.

Felton went into hero mode, once again. Bad shot inside, bad jumper, but at least we got it back both times.

The hero dropped 26 on 9 of 16 shooting, 9 dimes and 4 steals.

[davcbow]

i respectfully disagree with everything stated in this

as spectre said, everything about felton in the last few mins of the game showed that he was clutch and look for assist.

i don't really see how DJ would have been a better option

anyhow, i'm still confused about the criticism against felton regardless of how well he might or might have not played. i think tonight felton showed he can also pass the ball in crunch time situations

Really DJ kinda hurt us in the 3rd quarter tonight.... Felton played some good BBall tonight....:cool:

[110oldeast]

Great finish. We definitely had too many TOs. Some of them were just sloppy, but some of them were guys trying to be unselfish and not yet knowing each other's tendencies, where they want the ball, etc.

ohara,

Did you watch the game or were you following online play by play? It certainly changes context if you saw it.

As for the hero thing, the only thing that needs to go is this misconceptualizing of everything Felton does in the end under that title. If he were more aggressive in the 4th quarter against Phx, we might have had a better shot of getting within 1 possession. On Diaw's 3, Felton's initial penetration set it up and he kicked it out to Raja who hit Diaw when the defense rotated. It would be a hockey assist and not characteristic of someone trying to be a hero.

[BobcatsAllDay]

Crazy game, but fun to watch. Hopefully we can knock off the Clippers and end this road trip on a good note. Cut down on the TO's fellas

[ohara831]

Great finish. We definitely had too many TOs. Some of them were just sloppy, but some of them were guys trying to be unselfish and not yet knowing each other's tendencies, where they want the ball, etc.

ohara,

Did you watch the game or were you following online play by play? It certainly changes context if you saw it.

As for the hero thing, the only thing that needs to go is this misconceptualizing of everything Felton does in the end under that title. If he were more aggressive in the 4th quarter against Phx, we might have had a better shot of getting within 1 possession. On Diaw's 3, Felton's initial penetration set it up and he kicked it out to Raja who hit Diaw when the defense rotated. It would be a hockey assist and not characteristic of someone trying to be a hero.

Watched it. And I agree that on the Diaw play, Ray did exactly what I was saying he should do. He did a great job of it also. But I'm talking about the other 3 of 4 blown shots in the last minute. He gets the ball in his hands, and somehow cannot resist the shot. If he uses his speed to drive, penetrate and then kick t the open man, he is so much more effective and the result is usually good. I just want to see him do that in the final minute of a close game MOST of the time rather than only a FEW times. I just think it's a "hero mentality" which can be costly more than helpful.

[spectre]

It was 3, and he made 1 of them. Of the two one was an outside shot off a screen and the other was a drive that I think ended in a jump ball.

BTW, on those plays keep an eye on where Mek is. I noticed last night at least twice where he was standing on the edge of the paint underneath the basket both time (and clogging the paint).

You do realize that they're undersized and Felton was owning CJ all night right?

Felton does tend to try and score a lot at the end of games, but last night wasn't one to call him out for it.

[Slam]

He (Raymond) had some turnovers but 3 of those turnovers were because Okafor and Diop mishandled the ball.
EO50 bobbled a pass, but Felts made some very poor passes into the post.

7 turn overs are way too many, but other than those, I thought he played a very, very complete game - at both ends.

[ammofan]

Go bobcats!

[110oldeast]

ohara,

If you watched that and thought we won in spite of Felton, I will simply disagree. If you would have rather had him on the bench in that last minute, I again will disagree. I know that some folks get upset with a drive that is not completed and look at it as a bad shot. The flipside is when he does drive and get to the hole, if he misses after a man converges, Okafor gets a wide open put back (which he did). There is a difference in settling for a bad shot versus attacking the rim and getting something going to the hole when your team is in the bonus. I'm sorry, but the team actually plays better down the stretch when he is agressive, penetrating, shooting AND passing. When he is making scoring plays AS WELL AS passing, the passing is more effective as the defense actually has to help when he drives. If he is only driving and passing, the teams will play off and the drive and kick/dish is not as viable and often gets deflected or easily recovered on. Him attacking was a large part of why were in the game. You can't just focus on misses and ignore the makes. Furthermore, as aggressively as GS played the passing lanes (which Felton found out numerous times), if it wasn't a clear angle, getting the shot up while maybe drawing a foul (we were in the bonus) was a better option than pitching it with them feasting off turnovers the way they did. Him being a legit scoring option was a big part of the defense convering when he drove and pitched to Raja for the hockey assist on Boris' last shot. You can't do that everytime, but it definitely should be a strong option when it fits, however.

Against Phx, he simply pitched the ball, let the offense run, was too deferrential and we never had one of those spurts to really threaten them. I'm not saying he needs to take all the shots or even a bunch of shots and never have. I am saying that everytime he misses, it doesn't need to be magnified while minimizing everytime he makes it. Furthermore, a drive to the basket that frees up Mek for an offensive rebound opportunity is a lot different than a forced contested jumpshot or an uncompleted pass and is actually a higher percentage play. That's a big part of why teams want to deny dribble penetration. It's as much for it opening up rebounding lanes as passing lanes.

I personally think the hero thing is a load that is perpetuated on this board. He wants to win. If someone else has it going, it's not like he avoids getting the ball to them. That said, he's not afraid of the moment. For all the stuff I read on here about "hero" stuff, I have watched enough Bobcat games the last 4 years to see that a lot more positive happens when he is aggressive than he is given credit for. Does he screw up? Heck yeah. Just like every Bobcat player does. However, the difference is there is an anticipation for his screw ups.

My problem is that folks always talk about him looking to score as if it screws the team up. And it's just not true. Sure, if he isn't hitting anything and continues to hoist shots that isn't helpful. But the reality is that the team is 10-1 when has scored 20 or more this year. And the 1 game they lost, they would have won if Raja knocks down a FT or we switch and don't let JJ Reddick get a wide open 3. We legitimately should be 11-0 when he scores 20 or more this year, so the notion that he should just focus on passing isn't statistically or realistically supported.

The guy certainly is not above rapproach. He made some horrendous TOs in the game. Some were due to poor focus and concentration. But many came out of poor execution trying to find teammates and make plays for them. He likes to make plays for others, but down the stretch of a game like that when the team has been picking off passes left and right, you have made some bad ones, and other guys have fumbled some away, you are going to be more conservative with your pass selection then. He had his share of mistakes in this game. But he is also a VERY large reason why we won that game. To characterize it any other way, I just can't see.

[etothet]

First of all the boxscore I saw said he had 6 turnovers, 4 steals, 9 assist and 26 points. I agree that is too many turnovers, but I said Okafor and Diop bobbled some good passes. He is tripped coming down the court, no call results in a turnover.

[110oldeast]

Agreed. Mek finding the right spot to make himself available could work wonders there. For this reason, Boris and Ray have a synergy with the spacing and Boris knowing where to be and Felton knowing how to get it to him. Oddly, with Nazr, this has also been the case and he had a nice moment with Diop last night.

He and Mek have to find some way to get that kind of chemistry there. It's just never consistently been there. And the reality is that on some levels, there is not the same amount of trust (not on a personal basis). I've watched Felton since he was a junior in HS and he certainly isn't gun shy on passes for better and worse. However, if a guy fumbles passes, isn't strong with it on a continual basis, he will "pick his spots" more in dishing it to them.

I can't imagine they don't run the pick and roll/pop together more in practice. For whatever reason, they just never seem to have CONSISTENT chemistry with it. It could work wonders if they did however.



It was 3, and he made 1 of them. Of the two one was an outside shot off a screen and the other was a drive that I think ended in a jump ball.

BTW, on those plays keep an eye on where Mek is. I noticed last night at least twice where he was standing on the edge of the paint underneath the basket both time (and clogging the paint).

You do realize that they're undersized and Felton was owning CJ all night right?

Felton does tend to try and score a lot at the end of games, but last night wasn't one to call him out for it.

[etothet]

ohara,

If you watched that and thought we won in spite of Felton, I will simply disagree. If you would have rather had him on the bench in that last minute, I again will disagree. I know that some folks get upset with a drive that is not completed and look at it as a bad shot. The flipside is when he does drive and get to the hole, if he misses after a man converges, Okafor gets a wide open put back (which he did). There is a difference in settling for a bad shot versus attacking the rim and getting something going to the hole when your team is in the bonus. I'm sorry, but the team actually plays better down the stretch when he is agressive, penetrating, shooting AND passing. When he is making scoring plays AS WELL AS passing, the passing is more effective as the defense actually has to help when he drives. If he is only driving and passing, the teams will play off and the drive and kick/dish is not as viable and often gets deflected or easily recovered on. Him attacking was a large part of why were in the game. You can't just focus on misses and ignore the makes. Furthermore, as aggressively as GS played the passing lanes (which Felton found out numerous times), if it wasn't a clear angle, getting the shot up while maybe drawing a foul (we were in the bonus) was a better option than pitching it with them feasting off turnovers the way they did. Him being a legit scoring option was a big part of the defense convering when he drove and pitched to Raja for the hockey assist on Boris' last shot. You can't do that everytime, but it definitely should be a strong option when it fits, however.

Against Phx, he simply pitched the ball, let the offense run, was too deferrential and we never had one of those spurts to really threaten them. I'm not saying he needs to take all the shots or even a bunch of shots and never have. I am saying that everytime he misses, it doesn't need to be magnified while minimizing everytime he makes it. Furthermore, a drive to the basket that frees up Mek for an offensive rebound opportunity is a lot different than a forced contested jumpshot or an uncompleted pass and is actually a higher percentage play. That's a big part of why teams want to deny dribble penetration. It's as much for it opening up rebounding lanes as passing lanes.

I personally think the hero thing is a load that is perpetuated on this board. He wants to win. If someone else has it going, it's not like he avoids getting the ball to them. That said, he's not afraid of the moment. For all the stuff I read on here about "hero" stuff, I have watched enough Bobcat games the last 4 years to see that a lot more positive happens when he is aggressive than he is given credit for. Does he screw up? Heck yeah. Just like every Bobcat player does. However, the difference is there is an anticipation for his screw ups.

My problem is that folks always talk about him looking to score as if it screws the team up. And it's just not true. Sure, if he isn't hitting anything and continues to hoist shots that isn't helpful. But the reality is that the team is 10-1 when has scored 20 or more this year. And the 1 game they lost, they would have won if Raja knocks down a FT or we switch and don't let JJ Reddick get a wide open 3. We legitimately should be 11-0 when he scores 20 or more this year, so the notion that he should just focus on passing isn't statistically or realistically supported.

The guy certainly is not above rapproach. He made some horrendous TOs in the game. Some were due to poor focus and concentration. But many came out of poor execution trying to find teammates and make plays for them. He likes to make plays for others, but down the stretch of a game like that when the team has been picking off passes left and right, you have made some bad ones, and other guys have fumbled some away, you are going to be more conservative with your pass selection then. He had his share of mistakes in this game. But he is also a VERY large reason why we won that game. To characterize it any other way, I just can't see.
Good post.

[etothet]

EO50 bobbled a pass, but Felts made some very poor passes into the post.

7 turn overs are way too many, but other than those, I thought he played a very, very complete game - at both ends.
First of all the boxscore I saw said he had 6 turnovers, 4 steals, 9 assist and 26 points. I agree that is too many turnovers, but I said Okafor and Diop bobbled some good passes. He is tripped coming down the court, no call results in a turnover.

[teej]

If you guys seriously think Ray almost lost us the game, you need to change the 1st humber on the jersey...Okafor almost lost it. Or DJ, take your pick

[Slam]

First of all the boxscore I saw said he had 6 turnovers, 4 steals, 9 assist and 26 points. I agree that is too many turnovers, but I said Okafor and Diop bobbled some good passes. He is tripped coming down the court, no call results in a turnover.
He wasn't tripped, he tripped. It was also the nature of many of the turn overs. He zinged more than one pass 7 rows back when no one was there. He also passed to Gana below his knees while he had double coverage - never a good idea!!

Like I said though, apart from the turn overs, I thought he played a stellar game at both ends.

[Slam]

ohara,

If you watched that and thought we won in spite of Felton, I will simply disagree. If you would have rather had him on the bench in that last minute, I again will disagree. I know that some folks get upset with a drive that is not completed and look at it as a bad shot. The flipside is when he does drive and get to the hole, if he misses after a man converges, Okafor gets a wide open put back (which he did). There is a difference in settling for a bad shot versus attacking the rim and getting something going to the hole when your team is in the bonus. I'm sorry, but the team actually plays better down the stretch when he is agressive, penetrating, shooting AND passing. When he is making scoring plays AS WELL AS passing, the passing is more effective as the defense actually has to help when he drives. If he is only driving and passing, the teams will play off and the drive and kick/dish is not as viable and often gets deflected or easily recovered on. Him attacking was a large part of why were in the game. You can't just focus on misses and ignore the makes. Furthermore, as aggressively as GS played the passing lanes (which Felton found out numerous times), if it wasn't a clear angle, getting the shot up while maybe drawing a foul (we were in the bonus) was a better option than pitching it with them feasting off turnovers the way they did. Him being a legit scoring option was a big part of the defense convering when he drove and pitched to Raja for the hockey assist on Boris' last shot. You can't do that everytime, but it definitely should be a strong option when it fits, however.

Against Phx, he simply pitched the ball, let the offense run, was too deferrential and we never had one of those spurts to really threaten them. I'm not saying he needs to take all the shots or even a bunch of shots and never have. I am saying that everytime he misses, it doesn't need to be magnified while minimizing everytime he makes it. Furthermore, a drive to the basket that frees up Mek for an offensive rebound opportunity is a lot different than a forced contested jumpshot or an uncompleted pass and is actually a higher percentage play. That's a big part of why teams want to deny dribble penetration. It's as much for it opening up rebounding lanes as passing lanes.

I personally think the hero thing is a load that is perpetuated on this board. He wants to win. If someone else has it going, it's not like he avoids getting the ball to them. That said, he's not afraid of the moment. For all the stuff I read on here about "hero" stuff, I have watched enough Bobcat games the last 4 years to see that a lot more positive happens when he is aggressive than he is given credit for. Does he screw up? Heck yeah. Just like every Bobcat player does. However, the difference is there is an anticipation for his screw ups.

My problem is that folks always talk about him looking to score as if it screws the team up. And it's just not true. Sure, if he isn't hitting anything and continues to hoist shots that isn't helpful. But the reality is that the team is 10-1 when has scored 20 or more this year. And the 1 game they lost, they would have won if Raja knocks down a FT or we switch and don't let JJ Reddick get a wide open 3. We legitimately should be 11-0 when he scores 20 or more this year, so the notion that he should just focus on passing isn't statistically or realistically supported.

The guy certainly is not above rapproach. He made some horrendous TOs in the game. Some were due to poor focus and concentration. But many came out of poor execution trying to find teammates and make plays for them. He likes to make plays for others, but down the stretch of a game like that when the team has been picking off passes left and right, you have made some bad ones, and other guys have fumbled some away, you are going to be more conservative with your pass selection then. He had his share of mistakes in this game. But he is also a VERY large reason why we won that game. To characterize it any other way, I just can't see.
The problem with Felts is and always has been that the missed/bad shots far out weigh the made/good shots.

[spectre]

^ Not lately...the opposite has been more the norm, tho of course not overwhelmingly.

Since this is developing into a discussion about his TOs I'll give my thoughts.

I had the GSW feed last night, and on the steal and then loss out of bounds along the sidelines I didn't get a good view, but the announcers said "Jack gave him a small nudge, but they're 'letting them play'". Another time was when Felton drove in somewhat then tried to make a pass over his left shoulder to Raja (I think) and CJ snatched it...again the announcers said "Jack grabbed Felton a little there, but they're just 'letting them play'".

I don't know as I didn't have the right angle on the replay either time (both were from the opposite side of the benches and both plays were on that side of the court), but interesting n'ertheless that their announcers were saying that.

None of those bother me as much (including the low passes into the paint) as the across the court passes that get picked off like what happened right at the beginning. When he's making a higher risk pass which would net a great reward (if Gana/Mek catches the pass there's an excellent chance they'll either score or be fouled...if he can get past his man on the baseline we'd have a man advantage) I can live with it; the lazy ones like the one at the beginning of the game is what eats me alive.

He had too many, but as LB said there are bad TOs and not so bad TOs.

[Slam]

^ Not lately...the opposite has been more the norm, tho of course not overwhelmingly.
.
Before last night he was shooting 40% over the previous 4 games.

[etothet]

The problem with Felts is and always has been that the missed/bad shots far out weigh the made/good shots.
We haven't been winning without him so I guess you take the good with the bad as we do with every bobcat player. If all he did was turn the ball over, you may have an argument. However he contributes so much more to the team. 8th in league in steals, 11th in assists, rebounds well for a point guard, and he defends. He has learned to produce whether shooting poorly or whether he is turning the ball over. The intangibles make him valuable. You can say he is seeking to be a hero and you can dislike him, but he plays hard every night and you don't have a point guard on the team that produces more. Because if you did, he'd be playing. No one has talked about the 4 steals he had. The main course is that he had 6 turnovers. Well, he scored 26 and handed out 9 dimes and made several passes that led to free throws for other players. You can dissect any player on this team and concentrate on their inadequacies, but you always give credit where it is due.

[etothet]

He wasn't tripped, he tripped. It was also the nature of many of the turn overs. He zinged more than one pass 7 rows back when no one was there. He also passed to Gana below his knees while he had double coverage - never a good idea!!

Like I said though, apart from the turn overs, I thought he played a stellar game at both ends.
Did you watch the game? Are you saying there was no contact when he tripped? I have never said that the turnovers were good but he was pushed on that one and there was no call.

[teej]

Did you watch the game? Are you saying there was no contact when he tripped? I have never said that the turnovers were good but he was pushed on that one and there was no call.

There were lots of nocalls and bad calls, but why are you guys arguing over a trip?

[spectre]

Before last night he was shooting 40% over the previous 4 games.

FG% doesn't dictate on whether the shots he's taking are bad or not.

BTW, over the last 8 he's at 45%.

[Slam]

FG% doesn't dictate on whether the shots he's taking are bad or not..
That is very, very true. Of course, if he's missing a lot then he should just stop taking shots unless they are wide open layups!! (but that leads into what he does Vs what LB wants him to do - which none of us know). All in all I think the quality of his shots of late have been quite good. He seems to be taking his time a lot more which is helping his form (both on drives and set J's)


BTW, over the last 8 he's at 45%
Over the last month (13 games) he is averaging .403%

[spectre]

Over the last month (13 games) he is averaging .403%

And the 1st 3 of those were part of the stretch without Crash & Raja vs. playoff teams.

My position on him has been clear; he needs a full complement to be a good player. He's no star that can carry a team by himself. Good or bad tho...he's not afraid to try. When he's had a healthy roster both now and previously he's done a darn good job.



All in all I think the quality of his shots of late have been quite good. He seems to be taking his time a lot more which is helping his form (both on drives and set J's)


Which was my point! Glad we're in agreement!

[110oldeast]

Only in Bobcatsplanet perception. Folks on here will ignore a string of makes and zone in on the misses. Furthermore, everyone's shots towards the end of games are lower. The fact that Kobe Bryant is 25% on gamewinners reiterates this point. I would rather get up a shot that can be offensive rebounded than not at all.


The problem with Felts is and always has been that the missed/bad shots far out weigh the made/good shots.

[110oldeast]

Good posts spectre.