Why a lot of our fans suck and why we need to move Okafor

[Robertpel9]

Admittedly I am a newbie fan as the first game i ever saw was in mid December vs Detroit. Having said that my wife and i have been to every game at TWC arena since then and i have watched all but one road game, have season tickets for this year and already paid for next year and i played for NY Sec I class A champs and Div II college ball so i think i speak from some knowledge base.

I love watching this team but i cant stand a lot of our fans. My tickets are in sec 116 but I have friends who get me into a suite or the club sections for most games. Tonight i sat in 114 right at center court about 8 rows back and the section was DEAD and this was a GREAT game. In the 4th quarter i just got loud and rowdy (I am sure the 7 beers Helped) but eventually at least the few rows around me got into it and i truly think our energy helped down the stretch as even the team looked at us from time to time. Having said that the area was fairly full tonight by Bobcats standards but a good 2/3rds of at least the lower bowl fans could have cared less that they were at a game. I dont know why it pisses me off so much but it does. If you don't care about the game stay home and donate your high $$$ tickets to someone who does. It is sad to watch tems on TV (like the Jazz right now) whos fans are into it, and out fair weather fans who are just there for something to do and do not really care

Also After watching this team intensely for 3 months now i have seen a LOT of change. There is one more change needed this off season if we are truly going to go for a title. Okafor must go. I know this is unpopular but if he is teamed with Diaw it is a disaster. He just is not big or strong enough to compete. Diaw is i think our best all around player but he is playing 4 and is not a big inside presence as he is an awesome finesse player. Okafor is a very good player but he is not a strong inside presence either and the combination will kill us at some point. It is VERY frustrating to watch him at best get fouled and miss FT's when it should be a dunk and 1, he rarely shows heart (last week when LB attacked him in a TO he came out with anger and dominated but that is a rarity not a regularity). nearly 7' and only 255 lbs with not a lot of inner desire to go strong is bad. He either needs to commit to bulking up and getting a whole lot tougher in the off season or we need to move him. Atlanta does not have a lot of size either and it is sad to say Diop was a stronger presence than Okafor tonight BY FAR!!!!!!!!!

Don't get me wrong, i like the guy and i love the cats but to be real i think at this point our biggest deficiency is relying on him as our true Center and Where the F are our real fans at games.



Thoughts???

\

[Slam]

Thoughts?

You should have stopped at 4.

;)

[davcbow]

Thoughts?

You should have stopped at 4.

LOL same thing I was thinking...too many beers...:p

[Robertpel9]

Thoughts?

You should have stopped at 4.


I don't think so, if you really watch the games (and i know you do) it is easy to see this. We are now a very good team and i am THRILLED, we will not be a true contender with Diaw at 4 and Okafor at 5. They are both good players but the combination is not tough enough inside. I love Diaw's game and i think Okafor on his own is very good but that is the move we need to make this summer. That and Keep Felton (who frustrated the hell out of me when i first started watching but you can see the changes in him game by game). We need to keep him badly

On a side note if you were there in person and saw it outside of Q1 where we were just on fire we were damn lucky Diop played the way he did, he was an inside presence and without him tonight (and i am shocked to say this) we lose

[Slam]

Only playing with you Robert.

EO50's aggression has been a long concern of us long time Cats fans. The promising thing is that he has been more aggressive this season than he has ever been in the past, so maybe he can still get even more so?

Like you, I HATE that he blows from the line. I really don't get it. He has a beautiful, consistent stroke so from there so you think that he would hit at a much higher clip? Personally I think his biggest problem is starting in the crouch position. Someone needs to tell him to cut that shit out. When he shoots his mid range J from the base he doesn't crouch - why do it from the line?

Someone tell the man to stand up straight!!

Golden rule of FT shooting:

The less movement you have in your motion, the less things can go wrong.

Remove the crouch and you remove another variable.

I personally don't like paying him what he is paid (if he was a 75+% FT shooter I might feel differently) and if the RIGHT deal came along I would be very interested in it, but we would have to be 1,000,000% sure that Gana has the stuff to start and hold down the 5 spot on a full time basis for me to be willing to move him IMO.

Cheers!

[Muttley]

Where the F are our real fans at games?

Raleigh?
Ottowa?
Turkey?

I don't think there's someone we could move Mek for that would be better than Mek. Teams like to keep those types of players for themselves. And at this point, Diop's like our team's new child. Every good thing that he does is adored and applauded because it's novel. Mek's our old lady, and sometimes we get little tired of the same old double-double every night. (Is that possible??) Diop's nowhere near ready to start. Emeka's a rock, and we would get taken in any trade we could make with him.

[Robertpel9]

Raleigh?
Ottowa?
Turkey?

I don't think there's someone we could move Mek for that would be better than Mek. Teams like to keep those types of players for themselves. And at this point, Diop's like our team's new child. Every good thing that he does is adored and applauded because it's novel. Mek's our old lady, and sometimes we get little tired of the same old double-double every night. (Is that possible??) Diop's nowhere near ready to start. Emeka's a rock, and we would get taken in any trade we could make with him.


Please don't get me wrong, Diop is not the answer, generally i think he is a joke, tonight was an anomaly to what we have seen to date. I do not htink it is even remotely plausible for him to replace EO50

The problem is we cannot have Diaw and Okafor as our inside duo, Diaw is awesome but is a finesse player, okafor is a good player but is soft. His "softness" combined with Diaws finesse makes us real p*ssy's in the paint.

We like i said ar ea good solid team now regardless. Are you happy to be a good and 1st / 2nd round playoff team or do you want to be a real contender.

If we want to be real contenders we need a physical center if we keep the rest of this team as is. I think this is more fact than opinion

[Robertpel9]

Raleigh?
Ottowa?
Turkey?

I don't think there's someone we could move Mek for that would be better than Mek. Teams like to keep those types of players for themselves. And at this point, Diop's like our team's new child. Every good thing that he does is adored and applauded because it's novel. Mek's our old lady, and sometimes we get little tired of the same old double-double every night. (Is that possible??) Diop's nowhere near ready to start. Emeka's a rock, and we would get taken in any trade we could make with him.


A lot of his DD's are a simple result of minutes played and i think we can package him with something else to get what we need. I am telling you, if out 1-4 is Felton, Bell, Crash and Diaw then you need a physical center. It is what it is. We will get killed int he playoffs without one as we get better

[millst2]

Well it isn't the first time a member here has bashed Okafor and I am sure it want be the last.

Last year he seemed to play more pussified than this year. I mean this year is still weak but not as weak as last year. Last year he led the league in getting his shots blocked. I remember at the start of the season I was all bout bashing him for going weak to the basket, and yeah it still pisses me off at times but he is playing with more Heart than he was last year. Maybe he got the money off of his mind, and now see's we have a chance to reach the playoffs finally. It is no doubt Charlotte is a small market compared to others, but I think now that the players know if they play hard they will get a share of that spotlight nationally.

Again he is playing hard and wants the playoffs bad. It doesn't help his FT% or his Weak to the Rim action but it just seems he is wanting the W more and more every game.

But all in all, if we were able to get rid of him for a better player from a team looking for the 2010 summer then so be it, but it would definitely have to be a solid upgrade. if not then ILBIT, he will keep oak and put better pieces around for a similiar result.

[millst2]

A lot of his DD's are a simple result of minutes played and i think we can package him with something else to get what we need. I am telling you, if out 1-4 is Felton, Bell, Crash and Diaw then you need a physical center. It is what it is. We will get killed int he playoffs without one as we get better

Well true and not true.

Cavs will prob kill us in the second round.
Boston we can beat ( 1-1 with a 8 pt win and a 5 pt loss)
Orlando we can give them a hell of a fight although howard man handles Okafor. ( 0-3 but real close games we just fell apart on)
Atlanta we can take ( all of our losses 5pts or less)
Miami we can take ( 3 games they beat us by 4 twice , we beat them by 13)

And those are the teams we would face in the 1st and 2nd rounds more than likely. Hopefully we get Boston and stomp them. That would get the Naysayers around the nation to shut the hell up and start giving us some love.

[ammofan]

Okafor played fine last night. He looked great with diam in there if you ask me.

[G-Force for MVP]

bobcats dont have many real fans. If they make the playoffs then you will see all the people in charlotte actually watching/going to the games. But making the playoffs could be huge for this team.

[Dunk]

Charlotte is full of fair weather fans. If the Cats make the playoffs none of us will be able to get tickets anymore. :( That seems to be how this city works.

[amour217]

Charlotte is full of fair weather fans. If the Cats make the playoffs none of us will be able to get tickets anymore. :( That seems to be how this city works.

The worst part is once the Cats make the playoffs on a regular basis, the wine and cheese crowd will fill the lower bowl and the hardcore fans will be stuck in the upper levels...because god forbid you get into the game, the wine and cheesers will have you ejected for standing in their way, just like at BOA stadium

[TyHill]

Ive been a Bobcats fan since they came to Charlotte, and I will hate the day when I see the wine and cheese crowd pump into the arena and not cheer worth a damn. But also, I agree with the Okafor part. Its not Okafor cant play well with Diaw in my opinion , I honestly feel hes too small for the C position, and between Diaw and Okafor in the PF position Ill choose Diaw. Its possible to see a trade coming after this year and we could set our eyes on Mehmet Okur(unrestricted free agent next year) with Diop backing him for next year. Thoughts?

[spectre]

Welcome TyHill!

I don't think Okur is the answer...as Boris isn't that strong defensively I'd think you'd have to pair him with a defensive big.

Like Chandler maybe?

[dnbman]

A lot of the "fans" coming to games now are simply people who can afford it and think it's a cool thing to do. Those are the same people that leave midway through the third or sit at the bar for most of the game. I don't really hate these people, as they're keeping the franchise alive until the team starts winning and we start drawing the rabid blue collar fans that successful franchises count on.

Once those folks, come, the wine and cheese crowd will either get into the spirit or think it's too much of a hassle.

In the meantime, just enjoy being there while the spirit is taking root.

[Slam]

Welcome TyHill!

I don't think Okur is the answer...as Boris isn't that strong defensively I'd think you'd have to pair him with a defensive big.

Like Chandler maybe?
I agree - Okur wouldn't be on my short list and I actually see Chandler as a significant down grade from EO50 but paid around the same coin.

Pity we didn't move our 2nd rounder up a few picks last draft and snap up DeAndre Jordan. If him and Lex matured at the same time, we could have a heck of a twin towers on the roster!!

Wonder if there would be any other way to steal Jordan?

[spectre]

^ Sorry, should have clarified...maybe 'like "A" Chandler'. Someone with an aggressived attitude but hopefully at a much cheaper rate.

A defensive anchor.

[TattoodCats4life]

The worst part is once the Cats make the playoffs on a regular basis, the wine and cheese crowd will fill the lower bowl and the hardcore fans will be stuck in the upper levels...because god forbid you get into the game, the wine and cheesers will have you ejected for standing in their way, just like at BOA stadium

I've had the chance to sit in some close to the court rows (lower level A5, and even courtside once) and man its just downright disgusting how little the crowd down there cares about the game... Its all about the free wine and beer in the lounge (I'll admit I had a handful of them too, but some of these guys were getting 2 hitting a table then getting 2 more). I was courtside, center court for the game against the wizards, which while it wasn't like they had a shot, it was still a fun freaking game, and the lower level was just dull. Last night watched the Denver/Jazz game, I anticipate that kind of crowd in a few years, and other than the fact that I wont be able to get tickets (as cheaply or as easily as I do now) I'm all for it.

It'll probably actually be pretty exciting when we go see Miami here because we'll probably be fighting for 7th seed or even 6th by then and the place should sell out... I hope more of us go.

[Robertpel9]

I've had the chance to sit in some close to the court rows (lower level A5, and even courtside once) and man its just downright disgusting how little the crowd down there cares about the game... Its all about the free wine and beer in the lounge (I'll admit I had a handful of them too, but some of these guys were getting 2 hitting a table then getting 2 more). I was courtside, center court for the game against the wizards, which while it wasn't like they had a shot, it was still a fun freaking game, and the lower level was just dull. Last night watched the Denver/Jazz game, I anticipate that kind of crowd in a few years, and other than the fact that I wont be able to get tickets (as cheaply or as easily as I do now) I'm all for it.

It'll probably actually be pretty exciting when we go see Miami here because we'll probably be fighting for 7th seed or even 6th by then and the place should sell out... I hope more of us go.



I could not agree more, part of why i locked in my season tickets for next year is i do not want to be shut out by the wine and cheesers and gouged on pricing. You can do a $30 a seat ticket package in the lower bowl in sec 116 which is not a bad deal and at least at this point you can always move down near the court as it is still half empty and no one cares

I cheered my heart out last night, i am hoarse today, i got the little kids around me into it and our section (114 club section last night) actually started to get a little loud. I honestly think if i was not acting loud and drunk that whole section would have been asleep LOL

Enjoying the ride but man watching the Jazz game last night you really see what true fans look like

[Ampsportsduo]

The fans will come. The old Hive was not a wine and cheese crowd and hopefully TWC won't be either. A lot of people in this city blocked the Cats out of the sports conscious back when they first came, and have had no reason to become interested. With the success of this team people are beginning to take notice, but it probably won't be until next season when some former fans come back.

As for EO, while he may no longer be untouchable, his contract at this point in time, makes him ulikely to be moved without taking on handicapping contracts in return. I do disagree that he isn't physical enough. Because he is undersized and not bulky, he's not imposing, but he always puts a solid body on his man. When you look at the opposing centers in the east, there's only one EO has trouble matching up with, and he's Superman. The only team I believe would sweep the Bobcats in the playoffs would be Cleveland, and that has nothing to do with the center.

I also don't see any big men that the team could get in place of Mek that would improve the team (that are available and don't have their own restrictive contract).

[teej]

I think the lack of fan support has a ton to do with George Shinn and his arena plans, and what became the Bobcats today. When the 'Cats start winning, the people of the Carolinas will come out en masse to see the games, just like with the Hornets, as long as Bobby J doesnt do anything stupid...like sayng the profit comes when he sells the team. Basketball is the state religion, and nothing will change that in the near future. The Hive was alive for a losing team at points, and once LB gets this team going, I think we'll be at a successful rate for the current economy. Until then, I'll take advantage of as many ticket deals as I can :D

As far as Mek, I agree with you Robert, but I don't know who we could get to replace him at the 5.

[playoffs...PLAYOFFS?]

it's silly to think that the "wine and cheese" crowd would just ruin the atmosphere at the arena

there really isn't much of an atmosphere as it is... and neither will the wine and cheese suddenly get all the tickets and block everyone

pretty sure that the hornets had a great atmosphere at the old coliseum. charlotte also had the record for consecutive season sellouts.. something like 7

they had a hornets game on espn classic the other day...the crowd was great and it'll be nice once everyone jumops on board

[teej]

Maybe they should have kept the Bobcats at the old Coliseum until they sold it out?

[WarioVsMooChicken]

Okafor is possibly a top 5 C in the league. I constantly fail to see why people think replacing him will make the team better.

[Robertpel9]

Okafor is possibly a top 5 C in the league. I constantly fail to see why people think replacing him will make the team better.


Look it is not that i do not think he is a really good player and i am a fan of his.

The problem is we are incredibly soft inside and you need inside toughness to win it all (see the lakers / celtics last year. The celts one because they abused the lakers inside).

When you really break these games down Okafor leaves a lot ont he table. He is a PF not a C. we already have a tremendously talented PF in Diaw who has a finesse game, all i am saying is that getting tough inside is a must

Okafor needs some weight on him. 255 is not big enough, he needs to hit the weights and change his diet, i think at 270 he woud be a better player for the role we need from him

[WarioVsMooChicken]

Look at all the other Cs out there. Okafor isn't exactly outmatched in toughness like you guys make it out to be.

I can't even think of a non all star C that would help us anymore than Mek does.

[teej]

Look at all the other Cs out there. Okafor isn't exactly outmatched in toughness like you guys make it out to be.

I can't even think of a non all star C that would help us anymore than Mek does.

Boston won with a beast at Center and a beast at PF
SA won with a beast at C (same size but he's better than Mek) and a bigger PF than Diaw
MIA won with Shaq, need I say anything else
LAL won with Shaq, need I say anything else

Detroit (LB!!) is the only team that has won in recent memory with a center like Mek, and thats Ben Wallace. No way Mek and Ben are the same.

[Chef]

i think the biggest part of the debate about the atmosphere is we are failing to distinguish between "fans" and "attendees". the bobcats have very few fans and of course the lower bowl (just like at most arenas in the league) is made up of mostly attendees.

[Chef]

and as for mek. he probably is a top 8 center in the league and right now 9mil is not much for his services. but his contract gets much more expensive as it goes. mek is not worth 12-14mil and will be very hard to trade when he is getting that much. if we want to trade him, it needs to be now and not in 2 years. and in 2 years his stats will be the same and his cost will be 3-5mil more per year.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

Boston won with a beast at Center and a beast at PF
SA won with a beast at C (same size but he's better than Mek) and a bigger PF than Diaw
MIA won with Shaq, need I say anything else
LAL won with Shaq, need I say anything else

Detroit (LB!!) is the only team that has won in recent memory with a center like Mek, and thats Ben Wallace. No way Mek and Ben are the same.

Ok, you're sounding idiotic.

Kendrick Perkins is a very poor C.

SA's C wasn't as good as Mek. They used Duncan as a PF

And no..Mek and Wallace aren't the same. Mek is better.

[teej]

Ok, you're sounding idiotic.

Kendrick Perkins is a very poor C.

SA's C wasn't as good as Mek. They used Duncan as a PF

And no..Mek and Wallace aren't the same. Mek is better.

Perk is a beast as an athlete. Not a player.

The only other C I see on the most recent SAS Finals roster besides Duncan is Elson, but it has Duncan starting at C? I didn't watch those finals, but I was under the impression Duncan was a Center.

Wallace is more of a beast than Mek can ever dream of. End of story.

[SWedd523]

Perk is a beast as an athlete. Not a player.

The only other C I see on the most recent SAS Finals roster besides Duncan is Elson, but it has Duncan starting at C? I didn't watch those finals, but I was under the impression Duncan was a Center.

Wallace is more of a beast than Mek can ever dream of. End of story.
What happened to Oberto?

[teej]

What happened to Oberto?

I see him now, but he's listed at forward and isn't listed as a starter. Like I said, I didn't watch that team, I just know it by reputation (and same for Duncan)

[SWedd523]

I see him now, but he's listed at forward and isn't listed as a starter. Like I said, I didn't watch that team, I just know it by reputation (and same for Duncan)
Oberto is a really solid player, and he was what put him over the edge in their win over the Cavs the other year. But Duncan is a Center. It doesn't matter what he's listed as. He's the Center

[teej]

Oberto is a really solid player, and he was what put him over the edge in their win over the Cavs the other year. But Duncan is a Center. It doesn't matter what he's listed as. He's the Center

Well Wario said they used Duncan as a PF :g:

I always thought they used him as a Center, but then he messed me up. But either way, Duncan > OK50

[BETCATS]

LOL same thing I was thinking...too many beers...:p


cosign, but this was the most coherent thing i have read in a while.

As for your Okafor logic, i disagree with the idea to move him. He is basically a lesser version of vintage Ben Wallace + offensive skills. He is one of the keys to this team, getting rid of him would be hard cope with unless we got a better center.

[teej]

cosign, but this was the most coherent thing i have read in a while.

As for your Okafor logic, i disagree with the idea to move him. He is basically a lesser version of vintage Ben Wallace + offensive skills. He is one of the keys to this team, getting rid of him would be hard cope with unless we got a better center.

Well we would only trade him if we got a better option, thats a given. But lets put it this way, Ben Wallace earned his way onto a videogame, and theres no way in hell that Mek is ever doing that.

[ziggy]

Okafor needs some weight on him. 255 is not big enough, he needs to hit the weights and change his diet, i think at 270 he woud be a better player for the role we need from him

I wouldn't want Mek to bulk up too much. In his second season with the Cats he bulked up to 270-ish at least ( he was friggin jacked up ). Carrying the extra weight caused ankle problems for him throughout the season and the extra weight took away much of his quickness.

[SCBobcat]

I'm glad somebody said it. Mek bulked way up that year and was hurt because of it. Since he lost the wieght, he has played something like 150 straight games. Even if he is undersized, he is still strong enough to start all those games in a row against other centers. All this from someone who got a reputation as an injury risk when he was bulked up. The real fix is for Diaw to improve his rebounding. That should be much better than trading Mek and trying to get someone to replace what he gives us.

[BETCATS]

Well we would only trade him if we got a better option, thats a given. But lets put it this way, Ben Wallace earned his way onto a videogame, and theres no way in hell that Mek is ever doing that.


The word lesser version was used for a very good reason

[WarioVsMooChicken]

Adam Morrison was on a video cover as well...

Just saying

[teej]

Adam Morrison was on a video cover as well...

Just saying

And he earned it for that level...that was NCAA, not NBA. :rolleyes:

The kid WAS a superstar, too.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

I would love to get an all star C but it's very unlikely to happen. Not to mention that finding good players at other positions should be more of a priority.

With that being said, if we moved Mek, I would like us to see if we could steal that Polish guy who backs up Dwight. I just know for some reason that he could be great as a starter.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

And he earned it for that level...that was NCAA, not NBA. :rolleyes:

The kid WAS a superstar, too.

Can't argue with that.

Sad how things turned out.

[amour217]

Adam Morrison was on a video cover as well...

Just saying

Sean May should be on a video cover........Sweatin to the Oldies 4

[WarioVsMooChicken]

http://images.starpulse.com/AMGPhotos/games/cov200/drg200/g201/g20110ukm5z.jpg


....wait

[teej]

http://images.starpulse.com/AMGPhotos/games/cov200/drg200/g201/g20110ukm5z.jpg


....wait

And he earned that!

...but he hasnt done what Ben did to earn being on the cover of a NBA2k game cover. Not even close.

[BigMike]

When you are complaining about Oak I am going to need you to do two things before I will take anyting you say seriously.

1)DO NOT compare him to:
Shaq – He is THE center of his Era.
Yao – He is a 1 in a billion <snicker>
Howard – Come ON… he is Superman and probably the next Shaq.

2) Try and come up with a center you think would give us more production then his; average double double, lack of injury, being 5th in centers for field goal percentage, and then able to run the floor with our often fast paced offence… with out completely rebuilding our team again.

When I watch the cats games, I see our team and the individual parts of it, and IMHO the two players we shouldn’t even bother thinking about in terms of moving are Crash and Oak. They are such solid producers that every team we go against has to account for them. Does he get paid a lot? YES… if he can continue to grow and improve at the same rate over the next 4 years that he has over the last 3… he will be an elite center totally worth every dollar when that contract starts to bloat.

[teej]

When you are complaining about Oak I am going to need you to do two things before I will take anyting you say seriously.

1)DO NOT compare him to:
Shaq – He is THE center of his Era.
Yao – He is a 1 in a billion <snicker>
Howard – Come ON… he is Superman and probably the next Shaq.

2) Try and come up with a center you think would give us more production then his; average double double, lack of injury, being 5th in centers for field goal percentage, and then able to run the floor with our often fast paced offence… with out completely rebuilding our team again.

When I watch the cats games, I see our team and the individual parts of it, and IMHO the two players we shouldn’t even bother thinking about in terms of moving are Crash and Oak. They are such solid producers that every team we go against has to account for them. Does he get paid a lot? YES… if he can continue to grow and improve at the same rate over the next 4 years that he has over the last 3… he will be an elite center totally worth every dollar when that contract starts to bloat.

Why shouldnt we compare him to them? thats who we're paying him with, drafted him with, marketed him with (as much as the 'Cats market) and who he was supposed to be out of UConn - a dominating, physical, beastly force of a big man. He's doing just fine, but thats not what he is for us today, and thats why we're worried about taking it to the next level.

[BigMike]

I wish Felton was Chris Paul or Mo Williams.
I wish Bell was Wade or Bryant
I wish Crash was James or Durant
I wish Diaw was Nowitzki or Stoudemire
I wish Oak was Shaq or Howard
.
.
.

[davcbow]

I wish Felton was Chris Paul or Mo Williams.
I wish Bell was Wade or Bryant
I wish Crash was James or Durant
I wish Diaw was Nowitzki or Stoudemire
I wish Oak was Shaq or Howard
.
.
.


I wish I wish I wish :p

[Ghost Kat]

Okafor to me has held his own against the big name centers of the league. I think Okafor is alot shorter then most league centers but he has good defensive footwork. Blocks atleast two shots a game. Averages a double double for his career. Thats not easy to do. Look how much he has improved this year. You don't think LB could improve him more? Who out there could we actually trade and get that will be as dependable as Okafor?

I'm more interested in seeing what he does with Ajinca. I like Ajinca's skill set. In one of the last games he play'd I saw him out run a couple of the guards up court on a fast break. I'm looking forward to seeing an Ajinca/ Okafor frontcourt for some minutes in the game.

[teej]

Okafor to me has held his own against the big name centers of the league. I think Okafor is alot shorter then most league centers but he has good defensive footwork. Blocks atleast two shots a game. Averages a double double for his career. Thats not easy to do. Look how much he has improved this year. You don't think LB could improve him more? Who out there could we actually trade and get that will be as dependable as Okafor?

I'm more interested in seeing what he does with Ajinca. I like Ajinca's skill set. In one of the last games he play'd I saw him out run a couple of the guards up court on a fast break. I'm looking forward to seeing an Ajinca/ Okafor frontcourt for some minutes in the game.

Ajinca is another Diaw, just bigger and more French :biggrin:

[davcbow]

Sean May should be on a video cover........Sweatin to the Oldies 4


More like eatting to the oldies...:p

[amour217]

More like eatting to the oldies...:p

Sweatin to the Breathin

[BigMike]

Ajinca is another Diaw, just bigger and more French :biggrin:

That's just about the nicest thing i have heard anyone say about Twiggy!

[teej]

That's just about the nicest thing i have heard anyone say about Twiggy!

Well Twiggy was Hollins :p

and him being more French makes him inherently softer, so that wasnt nice :rolleyes:

but other than that, he really is. he can shoot, pass, and rebound. hes not a center like we thought, though he can play it (like Diaw), he can play PF, SF, he's fast enough to be a SG (like Durant) and if he had to could run the point in a pinch (that'd be a FHB moment!). Just like Diaw. Thats what I see him being, and I think that may have been a bigger reason for bringing Diaw in than we thought now that I see more of Lexy playing, or maybe thats how it turned out that LB wants him to be another Boris?

[WarioVsMooChicken]

I remember when Wallace, Dudley, and Carrol had to run the point...

good times.

[davcbow]

I remember when Wallace, Dudley, and Carrol had to run the point...

good times.

That comment makes me want a fine ham biscuit:p

[Muttley]

I remember when Wallace, Dudley, and Carrol had to run the point...

good times.

Ah! I was at that game! So much fun. Great game, minus the BS interference call on Mek at the end that nullified the go ahead dunk.

good good times.

[millst2]

pretty sure that the hornets had a great atmosphere at the old coliseum. charlotte also had the record for consecutive season sellouts.. something like 7

The Hornets would go on to lead the NBA in attendance over the course of their first seven seasons playing in "The Hive."

At one point, they sold out 358 consecutive games--the equivalent of almost nine consecutive seasons.
However, poorly-received decisions made by Shinn, as well as anger over personal scandals involving him, caused fan support to dwindle.

THEN news in Detroit was :
AUBURN HILLS -- For the first time in five seasons, The Palace was not sold out for a Pistons game. The longest running sellout streak in the NBA ended Wednesday at 259 when the announced crowd was 21,720 (356 short of a sellout). 2nd was Chicago.

So that really just proves that the Fans in Charlotte when the team is getting better and winning will come out as long as they don't feel like they are being dicked over by moneygrubbers. Detroit only 5 Seasons , the Hive was 7 seasons ( equivalent of 9 )

But I can say first hand I usually sit in A4-A5, and when I am yelling and getting into it, it does seem at times there's only a handful of us really cheering. makes me want to move up to your guys sections and be around others who give a shit and dont mind yelling at bad calls. That's part of the whole damn experience. Plus it would save me like 80-90% on my tickets :)

[davcbow]

The Hornets would go on to lead the NBA in attendance over the course of their first seven seasons playing in "The Hive."

At one point, they sold out 358 consecutive games--the equivalent of almost nine consecutive seasons.
However, poorly-received decisions made by Shinn, as well as anger over personal scandals involving him, caused fan support to dwindle.

........


So that really just proves that the Fans in Charlotte when the team is getting better and winning will come out as long as they don't feel like they are being dicked over by moneygrubbers.

........



Amen to that ----Notice to all owners!!

That is how most people feel in these hard times....:cool:

[bobcats_express]

I suppose the team could use a true centre. But we love Emeka!

[teej]

I suppose the team could use a true centre. But we love Emeka!

We do? I love him when we win, but he's playing like a bitch right now

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[davcbow]

We do? I love him when we win, but he's playing like a bitch right now

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Yep playing like he is afraid he might foul someone....:cool:

[teej]

Yep playing like he is afraid he might foul someone....:cool:

Which he does anyway. That just makes it worse. He plays like Erica Dampier >:(

[davcbow]

I dont understand it myself, last night he played decent against yao tonight it was like he didnt know who to gaurd, I saw him way out of position several times. Diop did the same thing a couple times tonight also which makes me wonder was it LB trying different things or was it McHale using his guys differently... It was all messed up I know that much....:cool:

[Maal]

i think the biggest part of the debate about the atmosphere is we are failing to distinguish between "fans" and "attendees". the bobcats have very few fans and of course the lower bowl (just like at most arenas in the league) is made up of mostly attendees.


Well said Chef,hopefully if we make it to the playoffs it'll turn some of these attendees to come lately fans that will result in some better energy for TWC.

[Robertpel9]

Guys,
I am the original poster and i still stand by my okafor comments. He showed it again tonight vs the Raptors, unless he is spoon fed points he is just too soft and too weak inside. Hell tonight he even blew dunks and layups.

I like him, he is a nice guy and a decent player but he will be this teams albatross next year when they really become a mid pack playoff team. We will never beat a top tier team with him at the 5 and Diaw at 4 and Diaw needs to stay right where he is as his ball movement and finesse combined with spurts of energy from crash is what makes this team tick.

We are F'ed as no one is taking Okafors contract, not sure what the future holds, i guess for the next year or two making the playoffs is our goal, i'd like to be true contenders thought and that is not happening with Okafor at the 5 spot

[davcbow]

Guys,
I am the original poster and i still stand by my okafor comments. He showed it again tonight vs the Raptors, unless he is spoon fed points he is just too soft and too weak inside. Hell tonight he even blew dunks and layups.

I like him, he is a nice guy and a decent player but he will be this teams albatross next year when they really become a mid pack playoff team. We will never beat a top tier team with him at the 5 and Diaw at 4 and Diaw needs to stay right where he is as his ball movement and finesse combined with spurts of energy from crash is what makes this team tick.

We are F'ed as no one is taking Okafors contract, not sure what the future holds, i guess for the next year or two making the playoffs is our goal, i'd like to be true contenders thought and that is not happening with Okafor at the 5 spot

Agreed, he goes all to hell when he plays the bigger bigs and other times he is too soft... we need a big big that can man up with the big bigs in the league....:cool:

[teej]

And no way in hell Okafor or Diop can compete with a Howard or Ilgauskas. We have a shot with the Celts and the Heat in coming years, but not the Cavs. Maybe the Magic, bu only if Okafor mans up, but he'd be gassed by the end of the series. And we can't take on SAS, LAL, or Denver in a series. Not down low, anyways.

[millst2]

Yea , I totally agree. I remember doing a post over the summer where I mentioned that concern. And it still is a very very legitimate concern.

But it is a possibility that Okafor could be picked up by someone, not totally out of the question. Against the bottom of the pack teams he is decent, but as you put it the upper tier teams he gets ate the hell up.

It is bad when I cheer for the team around charlotte haters, I will go BOOM wallace just dunked on his ass, or Vlad hits the three in your boys face, or BELL just stole the rock. BUT then a few secs later they say HAHAHAHA Okafor just went up soft, got swatted, didnt get the ball above the rim etc etc.

The question really would be does the FO and LB try and move him and nazr and give up the progress we made this year in hopes we get a good prospect or a solid bench player who didn't get the PT, or do they keep EO50 and try and replace missing pieces hoping he will MAN UP?

[Robertpel9]

Yea , I totally agree. I remember doing a post over the summer where I mentioned that concern. And it still is a very very legitimate concern.

But it is a possibility that Okafor could be picked up by someone, not totally out of the question. Against the bottom of the pack teams he is decent, but as you put it the upper tier teams he gets ate the hell up.

It is bad when I cheer for the team around charlotte haters, I will go BOOM wallace just dunked on his ass, or Vlad hits the three in your boys face, or BELL just stole the rock. BUT then a few secs later they say HAHAHAHA Okafor just went up soft, got swatted, didnt get the ball above the rim etc etc.

The question really would be does the FO and LB try and move him and nazr and give up the progress we made this year in hopes we get a good prospect or a solid bench player who didn't get the PT, or do they keep EO50 and try and replace missing pieces hoping he will MAN UP?


The problem is going to be that no one will take him and give us in turn what we need. Why would they.

I am not even sure Okafor would be a great 4 for someone (I used to think this). His hands are not very good and his shot is also weak,

He is a decent defender and rebounder but his stats on offense are HEAVILY inflated by gimme looks he gets from teammates and even then he blows layups and dunks here and there.

We are going to be a good team next year regardless and he is still a top half of the league center. Problem is I am greedy and i want to be a real contender. We will not be with him in the lineup, we will get eaten up in the playoffs. We need someone with Crash's mentality down in the post as our 4 (Diaw - Who i think is developing into a true all star) has a game based on finesse. Who is going to be our trench guy kicking @ss down low????

We better figure it out, we have gone from a bad team to a medicore one - we will stay mediocre if he is a highlight of our team

[BigMike]

and he is still a top half of the league center

Hollinger player stats: he’s 10th in the league in efficiency. If you only count the 32 starting centers he’s in the top third of the league.

CBS Player Rankings has him at 6th, they count blocks as a stat.

I wonder if the other 22 centers in the league below him get complained about as much as he does….

[Mustachio]

Hollinger player stats: he’s 10th in the league in efficiency. If you only count the 32 starting centers he’s in the top third of the league.

CBS Player Rankings has him at 6th, they count blocks as a stat.

I wonder if the other 22 centers in the league below him get complained about as much as he does….


exactly... its easy to rip him because he doesnt rip the rim off like Howard, but replacing him is another story.

[playoffs...PLAYOFFS?]

I don't buy that Okafor is the biggest flaw on the team. He is pretty comparable to Ben Wallace's days in Detroit. Okafor is not as good defensively..but better offensively than Wallace. If Brown could take that team two years in a row to the Finals with Wallace playing center... then I think we can live with Okafor

The bigger pressing issue for this season and next season..is how about having a deep bench instead of a 8 man rotation...

[Robertpel9]

Hollinger player stats: he’s 10th in the league in efficiency. If you only count the 32 starting centers he’s in the top third of the league.

CBS Player Rankings has him at 6th, they count blocks as a stat.

I wonder if the other 22 centers in the league below him get complained about as much as he does….


I can't seem to get my point across here

Those rankings are heavily dependent on stats. My reasoning is not about an individual player but rather how that player is or is not an asset to the team. This TEAM needs some aggression down low. Diaw has a absolutely beautiful finesse game and distributes the ball like no other PF int he league.

If Diaw was a rough and tough inside guy we could be happy with Okafor as he does bring decent defense, etc. HOWEVER when paired with Diaw we are just too soft inside and that will hurt us and more importantly stall our progress at some point next year.

I don't care what his ranking is from statisticians, i care about team chemistry and mix and our ability to beat the Cavs, Magic, Celts, etc of the world. While we amazing match up well against LA and BOS i think in the playoffs that will be a diffrent story. We need a physical inside prescence, i think this is more fact than opinion but everyone is entitled to their thoughts

[Slam]

I wonder if the other 22 centers in the league below him get complained about as much as he does….
I wonder if the other 22 have a mangina and if they are paid as well and for as long as him.........

[Slam]

I can't seem to get my point across here

Those rankings are heavily dependent on stats. My reasoning is not about an individual player but rather how that player is or is not an asset to the team. This TEAM needs some aggression down low. Diaw has a absolutely beautiful finesse game and distributes the ball like no other PF int he league.

If Diaw was a rough and tough inside guy we could be happy with Okafor as he does bring decent defense, etc. HOWEVER when paired with Diaw we are just too soft inside and that will hurt us and more importantly stall our progress at some point next year.

I don't care what his ranking is from statisticians, i care about team chemistry and mix and our ability to beat the Cavs, Magic, Celts, etc of the world. While we amazing match up well against LA and BOS i think in the playoffs that will be a diffrent story. We need a physical inside prescence, i think this is more fact than opinion but everyone is entitled to their thoughts
If you could replace EO50 with a player like Reggie Evans - who is known as a firece rebounder and post defender or Kwame Brown who is also known as a great post defender and considering you could get both of them (for example) for half or even a third of what we are paying EO50, would you do it and would you think we would be better off?

[teej]

If you could replace EO50 with a player like Reggie Evans - who is known as a firece rebounder and post defender or Kwame Brown who is also known as a great post defender and considering you could get both of them (for example) for half or even a third of what we are paying EO50, would you do it and would you think we would be better off?
Not better off, but more physical. Statistically, we are a great team. We have a PG who can drive, hit J's, and pass. We have a SG who can drain threes and twos, and hit layups on occaision. Gerald lights it up in points, rebounds, sometimes assists, blocks and steals. Boris got the 3D nickname for a reason. Mek, like was stated, is a top 10 center in the league and averages a double double.

BUT

We are pussys in the post. Diaw is soft, and that would be fine if Mek was a man...but he's not. Diop is a pussy to sometimes, so 75% of the time we have a pussy in the paint, and that doesnt work when you want to win in the NBA. I saw someone equate Mek to Ben Wallace. Ben was a MAN! He fought, attacked, and earned his paycheck. Mek thinks he can go home and have a tea party...

[BETCATS]

i would like us to some how get Reggie Evans. He would be great. Use him to replace Nazr, Howard, and may.

[Robertpel9]

Not better off, but more physical. Statistically, we are a great team. We have a PG who can drive, hit J's, and pass. We have a SG who can drain threes and twos, and hit layups on occaision. Gerald lights it up in points, rebounds, sometimes assists, blocks and steals. Boris got the 3D nickname for a reason. Mek, like was stated, is a top 10 center in the league and averages a double double.

BUT

We are pussys in the post. Diaw is soft, and that would be fine if Mek was a man...but he's not. Diop is a pussy to sometimes, so 75% of the time we have a pussy in the paint, and that doesnt work when you want to win in the NBA. I saw someone equate Mek to Ben Wallace. Ben was a MAN! He fought, attacked, and earned his paycheck. Mek thinks he can go home and have a tea party...


Thank you, could not agree more

[Ghost Kat]

Now in some defense of Omeka he's not that much of a pussy. He does get blocked WAAAAY to much. But I'd say alot of those are uncalled fouls. But then there are Meks stone hands, But Diaw has shown that Meks hands are maybe like catching a football with two baseball gloves on your hands, It's Possible but still not the best choice. But you can't average a double - double for your career and be drippin with pussy juice. ( Maybe after the game). He has the heart and the abilty. Honestly he's just undersized. But that really shows when we go up against the big name Centers in the league. He plays hard, Shows alot of effort and comes to play every game. Since we can't make him grow anymore and we've signed him long term,Maybe someone can yell at him every game. Or do what they do to bulls to make them jump at the rodeo..Someone in an oppsite teams jersey needs to kick him in the balls right before every game!

[Robertpel9]

Now in some defense of Omeka he's not that much of a pussy. He does get blocked WAAAAY to much. But I'd say alot of those are uncalled fouls. But then there are Meks stone hands, But Diaw has shown that Meks hands are maybe like catching a football with two baseball gloves on your hands, It's Possible but still not the best choice. But you can't average a double - double for your career and be drippin with pussy juice. ( Maybe after the game). He has the heart and the abilty. Honestly he's just undersized. But that really shows when we go up against the big name Centers in the league. He plays hard, Shows alot of effort and comes to play every game. Since we can't make him grow anymore and we've signed him long term,Maybe someone can yell at him every game. Or do what they do to bulls to make them jump at the rodeo..Someone in an oppsite teams jersey needs to kick him in the balls right before every game!


Sorry but i was there tonight vs the kings and he was a P*ssy again. I got excited on one play when he did get f'ed by the refs on one end, came back pissed and powered it home while being defended and got the shot and the foul.

This is similar to what we saw a few weeks ago when Larry chewed hit ass out and told him to dunk the damn bal and he want out and owned the court the rest of the game

Against most of these teams he is not undersized, he just does not get physical. This will not change and i stand by my assessment that if we are to be true contenders he needs to go and we need physicality to pair up with Diaw's finesse game

Not a popular stance but i really feel it is an accurate one. Emeka should have owned the floor tonight with the matchup he had and he got his points off of gimme assists and he always plays decent D

[BigMike]

-- nevermind

[Slam]

Emeka should have owned the floor tonight with the matchup he had and he got his points off of gimme assists and he always plays decent D
You know that he is never going to be Hakeem or Al Jefferson or Tim Duncan or Shaq in the post - right? He'll never have a refined offensive post game with a lot of moves. But if he can work hard for deep position, we can get the ball to him and he can score, I'm ok with that.

It's when he drops easy passes, doesn't going up strong, fades away from his defender, shoots off balance, forces it up and sucks from the line that I freak out.

But is he is going to hit 16pts in 7/10 shooting while pulling down 10 boards and blocking 4 shots, I'm ok with that.

[BigMike]

But is he is going to hit 16pts in 7/10 shooting while pulling down 10 boards and blocking 4 shots, I'm ok with that.

Averaging a double double isn’t child’s play, and having the poor mans version of D Howard is better then having the real Erick Dampier. If we build our bench and limit the turn overs we are a real contender next year.

[Slam]

If we build our bench and limit the turn overs we are a real contender next year.
No we are not.

[davcbow]

We need a true big C, not a converted PF that thinks he is a C...:cool:

[BigMike]

No we are not.


Well, if we had had the team we have now at the begining of the season, and played this same ball we are now then we would be at least 5 games up. (take our 18-8 start and make it 13-13 to equal our ratio sence the diaw/bell trade) That would put us at 35-32, solid 6th place. Now if you assume we limited the turn overs and buffed up the bench, as i said, then some of thoes heart breaker 1 - 5 point losses would roll in our direction pushing us towards the top 3 in our division. How is that not a contender?

./me points BigSlam towards the Kool-aid, "Drink some of that son, your harshing my buzz"

[Robertpel9]

Well, if we had had the team we have now at the beginning of the season, and played this same ball we are now then we would be at least 5 games up. (take our 18-8 start and make it 13-13 to equal our ratio since the diaw/bell trade) That would put us at 35-32, solid 6th place. Now if you assume we limited the turn overs and buffed up the bench, as i said, then some of thoes heart breaker 1 - 5 point losses would roll in our direction pushing us towards the top 3 in our division. How is that not a contender?

./me points BigSlam towards the Kool-aid, "Drink some of that son, your harshing my buzz"


Depends on what you define a contender as being. To me it is a team that can truly CONTEND for a CHAMPIONSHIP

I will repeat it until i am blue in the face, we are now a decent team but without a physical presence down low we simply cannot contend for a title, we just can't

Look at how Crash was able to take over the game last night thru sheer will from the SF slot. They look at how Okafor was able to in that game LB chewed his @ss out. If Okafor would bring the heart the Crash does, like he id that one night then yes maybe we can make it happen. The fact is he does not. I am there every night in the lower bowl with a good view of the post play and he goes up like a complete P*ssy, unless he is literally spoonfed a pass for an uncontested dunk (and hell he even misses some of those). Otherwise he puts it up as soft as Diaw does without the finesse of Diaw and frakly it is embarassing

I know i am not the only one to share this view. We have the same seats for every game down there but the people who sit around uschange regularly and several times i have heard this same feedback.

You cannot pair up Diaws Finesse game with Okafor. If you had a really physcial PF then yes Okafor would be fine, but the combination of the two of them (Ands i love Diaws game (Except for last night) we need to keep him as he makes our offense flow) but they cannot be together. You will see next year if we have this same lineup in the playoffs. When we get to a physical team we will see what we have seen this season, generally we get crushed

Maybe there is a team of a 3 way trade out there where a team with a strong PF wants what Okafor offers (Reliability and good defensive production) and we can get something back. Honestly i know we are stuck with him as his contract is not in line with what he has to offer most teams and it is a long contract.

I love the team and support it, including him very vocally at games, no need to not be honest about our situation though.

[davcbow]

Well, if we had had the team we have now at the begining of the season, and played this same ball we are now then we would be at least 5 games up. (take our 18-8 start and make it 13-13 to equal our ratio sence the diaw/bell trade) That would put us at 35-32, solid 6th place. Now if you assume we limited the turn overs and buffed up the bench, as i said, then some of thoes heart breaker 1 - 5 point losses would roll in our direction pushing us towards the top 3 in our division. How is that not a contender?

./me points BigSlam towards the Kool-aid, "Drink some of that son, your harshing my buzz"

What you are saying will just get us into the playoffs... To ever win a series and go further into the playoffs we need a bigger and better center and a improved bench.... To ever win a championship we will need to have all those things and will have to be very good at it; not none of this one game we are great, next game we cant hit a shot and have 21 turnovers and noone has the legs to play defense crap that our current team seems to experience from time to time....:cool:

[teej]

Mike, find me a team that wins chamionships without a big man.

And Mek is NOT a big man, he is a big bitch

[Robertpel9]

What you are saying will just get us into the playoffs... To ever win a series and go further into the playoffs we need a bigger and better center and a improved bench.... To ever win a championship we will need to have all those things and will have to be very good at it; not none of this one game we are great, next game we cant hit a shot and have 21 turnovers and noone has the legs to play defense crap that our current team seems to experience from time to time....:cool:


BINGO

That is all i was trying to say at the beginning of this thread. Especially the first 4 lines you wrote. Sure we can be medicore now instead of bad, who cares, i want a real contender for a team

[davcbow]

BINGO

That is all i was trying to say at the beginning of this thread. Especially the first 4 lines you wrote. Sure we can be medicore now instead of bad, who cares, i want a real contender for a team

I want a contender too and I think everyone here does. More people here are starting to see Meks weaknesses also. Im sure LB knows the deal too and if he could do anything about it he would have done so already. Its just going to take more time to assemble the correct peices to make a championship run happen. :cool:

[BigMike]

Mike, find me a team that wins chamionships without a big man.

And Mek is NOT a big man, he is a big bitch


I guess i will need you to define a "Big Man"
-- My point of reference:
Top 4 teams in the league right now.
West
2- Spurs, Matt Bonner 6-10 240lbs averages 5 boards 1/3 a block and 8 points Pay 3 mill
1- Lakers, Pau Gasol 7-0 250lbs averages 9 boards 1 block and 19 points Pay 15mill

East
2- Boston, Kendrick Perkins 6-10 280lbs averages 8 boards 1.8 blocks and 8 points pay 4.5 mill
1- Cavs, Zydrunas Ilgauskas 7-3 260lbs averages 7.5 boards 1.2 blocks and 13 points Pay 10.9mil


2006 champions:
Heat w/ Shaq (but got taken to 6 games by our very own Diop and the Mavs)

2007 champions:
Spurs, Fabricio Oberto 6-10 245lbs averaged 4.7 boards .3 of a block and 4.4 points took down the Cavs and Ilgauskas (noted above)

2008 champions:
Celtics and Kendrick Perkins (noted above) took down the Lakers and Pau Gasol (Noted above) in 6 games.


Then our lowly Mr. Okafor 6-10 255lbs averages 10 boards 1.7 blocks and 14 points Pay 9.5 mill


I think my new mantra when dealing with the Oak haters is going to be “Unreal expectations”

[teej]

I mean a dominating big man.

Celts is KG, Spurs is Duncan

Has nothing to do with size or money, as long as you get the job done. Dejuan Blair is 6'7 and he completely destroyed 7'3 Hasheem Thabeet (a star in his own right) on both ends of the court. Mek can do that to Z or Dwight or Yao if he worked at it.

[Robertpel9]

I mean a dominating big man.

Celts is KG, Spurs is Duncan

Has nothing to do with size or money, as long as you get the job done. Dejuan Blair is 6'7 and he completely destroyed 7'3 Hasheem Thabeet (a star in his own right) on both ends of the court. Mek can do that to Z or Dwight or Yao if he worked at it.


Thank you for taking the words out of my mouth, I have already said it is the combination of having a finesse player in Diaw and a P*ssy in Okafor that is the problem. Obviously the Spurs have Duncan and Boston has KG and the lakers really.....c'mon man they have Kobe that is not even worth comparing and the only reason they lost to Boston is because Gasol is a P*ssy too.

I like to be open minded but anyone that really thinks this lineup will go deep into the playoffs even next year is delusional. I LOVE the cats and i think Okafor is a solid player who if we went to another team with a physical PF would do well but here in our case he is a liability. Provided Diaw plays well consistently unlike the Kings last night we can't have both of them out there. Diaw is a huge asset. Okafor is our problem if we want to be real contenders

[BRNC]

I'm tired of the EO50 haters also...everyone of those teams (Boston, Spurs, Lakers) have two big men (6'10"+) starting...we have EO50 and well Diaw (6'8") when he shows up...I'd rather have someone to go with Mek rather than get rid of him...we need a real starting 4 or 5 that complements him not a tweener...

[Robertpel9]

I'm tired of the EO50 haters also...everyone of those teams (Boston, Spurs, Lakers) have two big men (6'10"+) starting...we have EO50 and well Diaw (6'8") when he shows up...I'd rather have someone to go with Mek rather than get rid of him...we need a real starting 4 or 5 that complements him not a tweener...


Diaw is a HUGE part of our turnaround, you have to be kidding me

:confused:

[teej]

BRNC, if you seriously just said to get rid of diaw, I have got to ask if you've watched a game since we traded J-Rich...

[b-nukle]

Who can we trade Okafor for?
We should just keep him. He will never be a dominating big man, but he does a decent job. He gives us at a double double almost every game. He needs to be paired with a scoring big man like Amare or Al Jefferson. I like Diaw and Bell, but they're not all-stars. If we could find a way to get all-stars in their spots, this team could be a contender. Switch Diaw with a player like Amare, and switch Bell with a player like Joe Johnson.
This is my wish list for the team next year.

Felton or DJ
Joe Johnson(someone like him or better)
G.Wallace
Amare(someone like him or better)
Okafor

A team like this could be a contender in the East. I'm expecting some more moves during the offseason, so I'm hoping we pick up an all-star or two.

I don't know what this team will look like next season, but L.B. will find players to make us better than this season.

[teej]

Diaw is better overall for us than Stat. He spreads the floor, is a leader, and is more durable. And we aren't going to trade with PHX again, I don't think.

And how would we get Joe J??

[b-nukle]

I was using Joe Johnson and Amare as examples of players I would like on the team. There are other players that play on the level of these two.
I have no problem with keeping Diaw, but not going to make us a contender.
This team has a problem with scoring and Diaw's 13.7 is not enough to beat elite teams. If we keep Diaw, I would like to see him move to SF.

Felton or DJ
G. Wallace
Diaw
Big Man examples(Bosh,Al Jefferson,Boozer,Josh Smith,Al Thornton,etc.)
Okafor

That line up still needs another all-star, but maybe Diaw can get better. Hoping he can raise his play with another year under LB.

[BigMike]

Diaw is a HUGE part of our turnaround, you have to be kidding me
:confused:

While this is true he is not the end all be all of the team. Sometimes his "Finess" looks more like good passes to the other team. He is a 4 that plays like a 3, what we need is another 4 that plays like a 5. But our 6-10+ club is kind of odd,
Ajinka - is an option...
Diop - wont shoot the dam ball
Nazr - Hes still on the team?
Vlad - Hes a 3 that shoots like a 2

So we should be looking for a more powerfull power forward to compliment Diaw not replace him.

[BRNC]

about Diaw...when Crash was hurt and we went 0-5 where was your leader Diaw...this team goes as Ray and Crash go...not Diaw...too many games Diaw has 4-5 assist and 6-7 TOs...he is not a PF...he is too slow to guard most NBA 3s...and yes I've watched him since the trade...as I've watched him since he was first drafted by the Hawks...there is very little differance in him now from the time he was drafted...he still makes too many bone-headed plays for me...

I'm glad for the folks who like him...as for me...I'm not a fan and again...I've watched him play just about every game since he has been here and he is just as under-whelming as I've always thought he was...this is my opinion and I don't exspect folks that like him to agree...but don't exspect me to see what you see in him...I don't and I've watched this guy since he first came into the league...he is not my kinda player period...

[Robertpel9]

I agree with a lot of that and also realize we are most likely stuck with Okafor for several years to come. The issue is if you move Diaw to 3 (Which i agree is probably the best spot for him) it creats other lineup issues

Bell is a needed presence on the floor, if you watch his defense in person night after night it is top notch and it is a big part of why we are winning. When his shot is on as well we are competitive with pretty much anyone. The issue there is that as of late his shot in very inconsistent and i think he is still nursing that bicep injury. Be that as it may unless we trade for a real start at the 2 spot Bell has to play

Obviously Crash is not coming off the bench and he sure as hell is not playing 4 or 5 and i don't think he would be an effective 2. 3 is his spot, it gets him close enough to the paint to really use his energy and still puts the ball in his hand. His shot has improved a lot this year both FG and especially FT shooting but he has to be our 3.

So the diliemma is who really sits and comes off the bench. I think we are loaded with too many near 7 footers instead of one really good one and a decent bench compliment. I mean we have Okafor, Diop, Nazr, Gana, Lexy, it is rediculous!!!

If we can't get a true all star 2 that can truly take over a game then this is likely our linu for the next couple of seasons, to me again we need to get someone tougher at the 5. Okafor to me is a 4 with hands of brick that defends reasonably well. A lot of his scoring is the product of gimme dunks, big deal

[spectre]

We're just not deep enough to handle playoff teams without one of our best players (esp. then before Vlad)...so I don't really see how that losing streak should be put on Boris. Take away any of the starting 5 and we're hard put to beat any team.

Boris is not fast enough to play the 3. If we try and put him in that position in more than spot minutes he'll become severely overpaid and a detriment to the starters. He HAS to play the 4.


So we should be looking for a more powerfull power forward to compliment Diaw not replace him.

or a C...someone like Lopez would be great. Good defender that can score inside.

[Robertpel9]

about Diaw...when Crash was hurt and we went 0-5 where was your leader Diaw...this team goes as Ray and Crash go...not Diaw...too many games Diaw has 4-5 assist and 6-7 TOs...he is not a PF...he is too slow to guard most NBA 3s...and yes I've watched him since the trade...as I've watched him since he was first drafted by the Hawks...there is very little differance in him now from the time he was drafted...he still makes too many bone-headed plays for me...

I'm glad for the folks who like him...as for me...I'm not a fan and again...I've watched him play just about every game since he has been here and he is just as under-whelming as I've always thought he was...this is my opinion and I don't exspect folks that like him to agree...but don't exspect me to see what you see in him...I don't and I've watched this guy since he first came into the league...he is not my kinda player period...

If we are going to keep Okafor even though i love Diaw i agree with you then we need to move him and get a really physical rough PF. Everyone here knows we can't play without Crash, he is the lifeblood of the team and i also fully agree with your take on Felton (and i have come around on this one as i truly got to know the team as i was NOT a Felton fan when i started watching all the games, i know repect and understand what he brings to the team and we better keep him this offseason)

We really are arguing the same thing which is we cannot lack a stong physical big man down low. I think we both know Okafor is not that person so then you just have to ask to i want Okafor or Diaw. Let's agree to disagree on which one to keep. It is the same argument though about what will hold us back (Lack of a dominant physical prescence int he 4 or 5 spot). Bring in a strong 4 and you can keep Okafor, bring in a strong 5 and Diaw can do his thing.

Two different ways to skin the Bobcat

[spectre]

^ If we bring in a strong PF to pair with Mek wouldn't our offense stagnate like it was before the PHO trade? Wouldn't this pairing also clog the paint offensively?

[BigMike]

^ If we bring in a strong PF to pair with Mek wouldn't our offense stagnate like it was before the PHO trade? Wouldn't this pairing also clog the paint offensively?

IMHO
1 Felton
2 Crash
3 Diaw
4 Big man
5 Oak

The 1 2 3 spots we have a lot of shooters to rotate in, DJ, Vlad, Martin, Bell
the 4 and 5 spots we have May, Naza, Ajinka, Diop to rotate in. you can still drop Diaw down to the 4th spot when we don’t need as much size (call it the small line up) and you keep all of the production and defense that Oak brings as well as the tempo and movement that Diaw does.

All of this arguing about Diaw/Oak… has anyone stopped to think that the answer might be in replacing Bell in the starting lineup?

[spectre]

Diaw would continually get smoked at the 3 spot. He has every time we've tried to play him there any length of time.

Bell is a BIG part of why we cracked top 10 in defense. We've been having success while being one of the lowest in the league in ppg because of that.

Crash also doesn't do well at the 2. You need a strong perimeter/denier in that slot and he ain't that.

[Slam]

^ If we bring in a strong PF to pair with Mek wouldn't our offense stagnate like it was before the PHO trade? Wouldn't this pairing also clog the paint offensively?
Yes and yes.

[spectre]

I think we're borderline 41 win team right now barring injury (and that's a big "if"...every team has injury). We can get better with this starting group, but IMO we would need 2 important parts: a good scoring 2 who is an above average defender to backup/one day take over for Bell, and a strong post player WITH AGGRESSION who can defend and score in the post.

It doesn't have to be "instead of" Mek or Boris...between the 2 positions there are 96 minutes of game time. Divide that by 3 and you get 32 each.

You can get those guys around the 15th pick; we just need to slide Portland's GM some cash to get him to pick for us.

[Robertpel9]

Diaw would continually get smoked at the 3 spot. He has every time we've tried to play him there any length of time.

Bell is a BIG part of why we cracked top 10 in defense. We've been having success while being one of the lowest in the league in ppg because of that.

Crash also doesn't do well at the 2. You need a strong perimeter/denier in that slot and he ain't that.


Spot on

And to the other point, i agree the answer is not to being in another 4, Diaw is fine, this is back to the original argument Okafor does not work with this lineup. If he would play every minute like he did when LB chewed his ass out in that game a few weeks back you can see what the difference could be, he just does not naturally have it in him

Bell needs to be our 2, his D alone make a HUGE difference. If we could get a real all start at 2 then i would agree with replacing him but crash needs to stay at 3 and Diaw at 4. Both show they are not nearly as effective when at other sports on the court

Honestly it blows my mind how anyone can with facts argue with this logic other than to give me inflated Okafor stats from being spoonfed byt he rest of the team. He is a good defender and a truly nice guy, thats about it

[Robertpel9]

I think we're borderline 41 win team right now barring injury (and that's a big "if"...every team has injury). We can get better with this starting group, but IMO we would need 2 important parts: a good scoring 2 who is an above average defender to backup/one day take over for Bell, and a strong post player WITH AGGRESSION who can defend and score in the post.

It doesn't have to be "instead of" Mek or Boris...between the 2 positions there are 96 minutes of game time. Divide that by 3 and you get 32 each.

.


That is solid logic

Lets do it

[Ampsportsduo]

This argument has raged on far too long for me to attempt to fight all points of view, but the overarching feeling I get from this, is people don't appreciate how physical Mek is because he's not always a strong finisher on the offensive end. He is undersized, but comparing him unfavorably to Garnett and Duncan (two Hall of Famers and two guys that don't play his position) isn't fair.

As for "being stuck" with him... this statement is an embarrassment. Mek's not a hall of fame player, but he's a very good player at a position that doesn't have many very good players in the league. Go ahead throw Yao out there as an example of someone he can't guard. Then go back and look at Yao's performance against Cleveland recently. Similar numbers... odd considering that they're the top team in the east, and some people think we could never be a contender with Mek in the middle.

In my opinion it's better to have a defensive minded center if your building a contender. Sure, throw Shaq out there, of course it would be nice to have the most dominating player in the history of the league, but not every team gets one.

People can continue to rant and call him absurd things, but having a center that stays healthy, shows up and gives a double-double every night, blocks some shots, and is a good citizen is far better than what most teams have in the middle. His hands have also improved tremendously this year as he's become more accustomed to playing with Boris. As fans we've gotten a lot of new "toys" to play with and dissect this season, and as a result we've begun taking a lot of the other guys for granted. With the exception of Crash, what player that has been here for more than this season, gets more love than criticism on the boards?

Maybe it's just me, but you guys like to throw the P word out there, but excuse Diaw because he makes the offense better. Being a good defender is much tougher (particularly inside) and yet you want to slap that title on Mek. Seriously, you all should be ashamed of yourselves for being so crass and immature. Sure, it's the internet, but this has always been a fairly classy place to come read, discuss and learn about the team we all cheer for. Collectively, you've all brought it down a notch closer to the muck.

[spectre]

Kevin Love says hey. So does Al Horford, Nene & Varejao.

It's not just Shaq who has great games against him.

Not to say that I want Mek gone, but there's no doubt his lack of agression hurts us a lot.

[davcbow]

Kevin Love says hey. So does Al Horford, Nene & Varejao.

It's not just Shaq who has great games against him.

Not to say that I want Mek gone, but there's no doubt his lack of agression hurts us a lot.


Ideal case would be to pick up a very good big in FA and be able to keep Mek to use at the 4 and 5 spots depending on the needs in the line up. Chances of that happening are slim to none. We all realize we will have Mek for quite a while unless LB can work his magic somehow in a trade because I'm sure by time we make our draft pick this off season what we need wont be available. So it looks like trade or nothing...:cool:

[Ampsportsduo]

Kevin Love says hey.

Kevin Love? A great example of a true center. Shooting just as much from 15-20 feet as he does in the paint. If anything, he's the argument against Mek being able to guard a PF. Besides Mek played just 31 minutes in the game and that game was terrible all-around, not just one player. And since we're looking at it, what happened the last time the Cats played Minnesota? Al Jefferson held to 8 points on 3-11 shooting.


So does Al Horford

Horford against the Cats this season: 4 points - 4 boards, 12 and 14, 5 and 4, and 15 and 7.

Emeka against the Hawks this season: 8 and 11, 10 and 11, 15 and 19, 17 and 11. Please tell me why he's saying hey.


It's not just Shaq who has great games against him.

Feel free to point to some other guys, because these first two aren't impressing me. Nene had a hell of a game, but he also got easy buckets when Mek had to slide over to stop penetration. Call me an apologist, but I think there's some mis-remembering going on amongst the haters.


Not to say that I want Mek gone, but there's no doubt his lack of agression hurts us a lot.

Mek's aggressiveness has been an issue, but on the offensive end. He doesn't often get smoked on defense like some people are wanting to assert. Can he be better? Yes, but has he improved in that area, albeit spotty at times, this season? I'd say yes. There are players in this league better than Emeka, but his limitations do not preclude this team from being a legitimate contender any more than other players limitations.

[teej]

Amp, Mike, and whoever else. We arent saying that Mek is a bad center, that he is a below average center, that he is an average center, or that he is an above average center. We are saying he is a good center, but for us to have a shot at a CHAMPIONSHIP (which I would hope is the goal of any true sports fan) Mek is not the answer. For us to get pas the Cleveland's and the LA's, we have to have a physical, dominating, man in the paint, and neither Gana nor Mek provide that. Boris is a pussy just like them, but he IS excused a little bit because he doesnt play in the paint and without him, like was said by either Slam or Spectre, our offense would stagnate and we would be back in the lottery. It still pisses me off when he is a girl, but look at his body of work. Since being traded, the only players who have done more in every category for their team are LeBron and Dwayne Wade in the East. And maybe not even D-Wade. Mek gets posterized by anyone who tries, and he only gets those stats becasue he has people feeding him. He is still good, and I love the guy, but he needs to grow a pair...

[Jeff41]

I just think Okafor needs to be doing more than he does for this team. 13-14 points is underacheiving for him. I REALLY like our starting 5, but we need more scoring from the 5 position considering we are a defensive based team. I've also had issues with (in my eyes) lack of effort many games. He's like Julius Peppers in a way that he can really take over when he wants to, but I've seen him pushed around WAY too much by other centers this year. I know there's a shortage of good big men in the league, but I just think we can do better than Emeka. If we can get a good offer for him, I think he definitely should not be untouchable.

[spectre]

He had a very good stretch offensively right after Boris came on...if he could maintain that with some consistency he'd prove a lot of folks wrong. And it's not all on him defensively; it's not like he gets a lot of help in the paint. He just needs to come with a consistent effort and the attitude that no matter how big or good a player is...no matter if he gets to be the brunt of a highlight dunk...he's going to prevail one way or the other. Without that he's always going to come up short against the better bigs in the league.

Mainly I just want him to dunk the damn ball.

[Ampsportsduo]

I 100% agree that I've yelled multiple times for him to take it stronger to the hoop, but I don't buy that he has to be shipped out for this team to be a legit competitor (and I do mean for a championship). It's tough to judge this team as compared to teams with superstars, because there are far more examples of stars winning championships, but if you look at the lsat 20 years of the NBA finals, at least one team every year did not have a dominant center. If anything, power forward has been the more important position for more teams, which would point to Diaw.

I don't belive Mek's untouchable either, but I do think if Diaw played with toughness equal to Emeka, we'd be a lot closer to being legitimate contenders. I just worry that people want to throw the baby out with the bathwater (maybe a bad choice of words), because there just aren't that many centers better than Mek in the league. Whether that's because of an overall lack of centers can be argued, but finding an available upgrade at center is not something that can be done easily.

Looking back to the trade with Phoenix, remember how most of their fans described Diaw and Bell? The more you watch players, the more you wear rose-colored glasses (J-Rich's departure) or the more you focus on their limitations, instead of recognizing what they offer to the team (Diaw and Bell). I wonder if since we've (fans) seen Mek for so long we take for granted what Mek does, and only see him being undersized and sometimes soft to finish.

[ziggy]

Emeka frustrates me at times, I too would like to just see him dunk the damned ball, but it would be next to impossible to find a replacement for Mek that will give us

14ppg
10.3 rpg
56%
1.7 bpg

His game is not pretty to watch, but those numbers don't lie.

[teej]

Emeka frustrates me at times, I too would like to just see him dunk the damned ball, but it would be next to impossible to find a replacement for Mek that will give us

14ppg
10.3 rpg
56%
1.7 bpg

His game is not pretty to watch, but those numbers don't lie.

Thank you Hollinger

If numbers were all that mattered, why would we bother to play the damn game.

[b-nukle]

Wow. Okafor was straight ass tonight. I would trade him for someone like Al Jefferson, but that ain't going to happen. Hope we can find someone in free agency and trade Okafor for an all-star SG.

[amour217]

Wow. Okafor was straight ass tonight. I would trade him for someone like Al Jefferson, but that ain't going to happen. Hope we can find someone in free agency and trade Okafor for an all-star SG.

Well if Okafor plays like a leaky rectum, a team won't deal us their all-star SG for him

[WarioVsMooChicken]

Thank you Hollinger

If numbers were all that mattered, why would we bother to play the damn game.

Because you have to play the game in order to make the numbers...?

Do you think before you post half the time?

[teej]

Because you have to play the game in order to make the numbers...?

Do you think before you post half the time?

And Okafor gets the numbers off weak teams plus they are inflated because of Diaw's passing

this whole discussion is about beating championship teams...

yes I think before I post...I just hate the numbers...and I'm enough of a math/science guy to know how important they are, I just see that in basketball they are overrated.

[Jeff41]

Wow. Okafor was straight ass tonight. I would trade him for someone like Al Jefferson, but that ain't going to happen. Hope we can find someone in free agency and trade Okafor for an all-star SG.

Yea watched the game tonight and I am not making this comment based solely on tonight, it's just a realization I had. Emeka is EASILY our worst starter, he's just not that great and isn't contibuting enough like I said earlier. He played barely in the 3rd quarter and the team played excellent without him with Diop making some big blocks and playing nice D.

Also I backread in this thread, and I can't believe that some of you guys are calling out Diaw. Diaw has been a GODSEND for us, where do you get a 4 like him that is that athletic, can knock down 3s, and do what he does?

[Jeff41]

And Okafor gets the numbers off weak teams plus they are inflated because of Diaw's passing

this whole discussion is about beating championship teams...

yes I think before I post...I just hate the numbers...and I'm enough of a math/science guy to know how important they are, I just see that in basketball they are overrated.

This is true, he dominates the Clippers but when we play against teams with good bigs, Emeka gets dominated. I don't know what to do with him other than trade him in the offseason, I like Diaw too much at 4 to put Emeka there. I just don't think he fits in Larry's system.

[BigMike]

I just don't think he fits in Larry's system.

Able to block shots and get a lot of boards, then get down court fast for transition bsketball.... he is close to perfect for a LB system, which historicaly has been "Play rock solid D, atack the transition and dont have empty possessions." Whats funny is that if Diop can start to look to the rim before he looks for a pass he may well out strip Oak in minuits soon, because he plays LB ball also.

[BigMike]

This is true, he dominates the Clippers but when we play against teams with good bigs, Emeka gets dominated.


The sad truth is that he is what he is, a 11th ranked center in the league... that means 10 teams are able to beat on him, but 21 of them cant. Part of my argument this whole time has been that unless you get one of those other 10, that is not going to change. And 3 of those 10 are EPIC players of the game that are going to be in the hall of fame (they may as well etch the plaques for Yao and Shaq now) and asking any center to stand up to those 3 and dominate them is setting an unreal expectation.

[teej]

Able to block shots and get a lot of boards, then get down court fast for transition bsketball.... he is close to perfect for a LB system, which historicaly has been "Play rock solid D, atack the transition and dont have empty possessions." Whats funny is that if Diop can start to look to the rim before he looks for a pass he may well out strip Oak in minuits soon, because he plays LB ball also.

The sad thing is you're right, OK50 is right for LB, except he lacks one important thing, the family jewels. So does Diop, so as long as Diop sucks, Mek will play because Mek at least looks good on paper and he's getting paid more and is the face of the franchise. But if Diop out plays Mek, Diop will start. And I could see Diop starting against SAS or Orlando if that ever happened

[ziggy]

Thank you Hollinger

If numbers were all that mattered, why would we bother to play the damn game.

Leaving the numbers out of it: What attainable center is out there that we can get that can give us decent scoring, be a top 10 rebound, FG%, Blocked shot guy that can pretty much guard any center in the league not named Shaq, Yao or Superman... and nobody can guard those guys.

For 3 years I've asked this question when people have griped about Emeka, but nobody has been able to give me a reasonable answer yet.

[teej]

There isnt one. Thats why we won't win a a championship anytime soon. That's our point.

[BigMike]

There isnt one. Thats why we won't win a a championship anytime soon. That's our point.

This year, the 2 teams that seam to be on a road to the championship Lakers or Cavs... their centers are Ilgauskas and Gasol and I consider Oak to be on par with either of them. Oak shut down Gasol when they faced off this year and Iilg shot below average against us but played ok. Now Oak also shot below average against Iilg, but that’s what happens when two equals meat on the court... he smoked Gasol in our win over the Lakers.

So I don’t feel that you can hang your "...won't win a a championship anytime soon...." solely around Oaks neck. To that end my defence of him stems from the fact that there are other places we can find those 10 points a game we need to be a top seeded team next year.

[teej]

We havent played the Cavs in a game that I would consider equal of late, but when we have we have played pathetically. I consider Boston better than Cleveland, but Boston is injured right now. I honestly think that Leon Powe, who is 6'8, could start at center for the Celtics and they would beat us. They just have a dumbass for a coach, similar to us last year...the only reason he won is because its impossible to lose with that much talent. Similar to FHB getting a 5 game win streak. But back on topic, Mek is supposed to be the best starter, or at least 2nd. But right now, he is only better than Raja in stats, and overall he is the worst. I would not give up any of our starting 5 but Mek.

[Slam]

Leaving the numbers out of it: What attainable center is out there that we can get that can give us decent scoring, be a top 10 rebound, FG%, Blocked shot guy that can pretty much guard any center in the league not named Shaq, Yao or Superman... and nobody can guard those guys.

For 3 years I've asked this question when people have griped about Emeka, but nobody has been able to give me a reasonable answer yet.
DeAndre Jordan has had moments of looking pretty good this season when the Clipps were smacked by injuries and he got the start.

[BigMike]

But back on topic, Mek is supposed to be the best starter, or at least 2nd. But right now, he is only better than Raja in stats,

I dont understand that part... what do you mean hes supposed to be our best starter?

[Ampsportsduo]

There isnt one. Thats why we won't win a a championship anytime soon. That's our point.


Yet the title of the thread is why we need to MOVE Okafor.

When you look at the centers that are better than Mek, all of them except for Howard are in the West, meaning the Cats wouldn't play them until the Finals. So please explain how Mek prevents the team from competing for a championship? People should be happy he ends up on posters, because he's going for the block and who knows how many posters he's negated with big blocks. If the only gripe against him is he doesn't take it strong on the offensive end, that can be remedied. Trading him for someone that lacks his "family jewels" on the defensive end will be much harder to teach.

[Robertpel9]

Yet the title of the thread is why we need to MOVE Okafor.

When you look at the centers that are better than Mek, all of them except for Howard are in the West, meaning the Cats wouldn't play them until the Finals. So please explain how Mek prevents the team from competing for a championship? People should be happy he ends up on posters, because he's going for the block and who knows how many posters he's negated with big blocks. If the only gripe against him is he doesn't take it strong on the offensive end, that can be remedied. Trading him for someone that lacks his "family jewels" on the defensive end will be much harder to teach.


I started the thread a long time ago and I still stand by all of it. I still love the team though and will be there tonight as always rooting for all of our players and a win

There is no point in me beating a dead horse any longer. It is the Okafor Diaw combination that is the problem. The guy who reference teams winning chapoinships without a strong physical C was spot on in saying they did have a strong physical PF. Diaw will never be that but if anyone has really watched all the games the last few months you would be F'ing nuts to think he is the one we move. They guy kicks ass in so many ways i am not going to take the time to type them. Without him we are still playing well under .500 ball

Let's all agree to disagree, i can't see how some people don't realize that Okafor is now a liability for us but so be it. The only way i think we can keep him and really be a true contender is if we had a true all start SG that could carry the team.

I also agree with some other posters about Diop, there really is now little fall off when he comes into the game. He plays decent D, his offense is a joke but to me so is Okafors unless he is spoonfed

[davcbow]

I started the thread a long time ago and I still stand by all of it. I still love the team though and will be there tonight as always rooting for all of our players and a win

There is no point in me beating a dead horse any longer. It is the Okafor Diaw combination that is the problem. The guy who reference teams winning chapoinships without a strong physical C was spot on in saying they did have a strong physical PF. Diaw will never be that but if anyone has really watched all the games the last few months you would be F'ing nuts to think he is the one we move. They guy kicks ass in so many ways i am not going to take the time to type them. Without him we are still playing well under .500 ball

Let's all agree to disagree, i can't see how some people don't realize that Okafor is now a liability for us but so be it. The only way i think we can keep him and really be a true contender is if we had a true all start SG that could carry the team.

I also agree with some other posters about Diop, there really is now little fall off when he comes into the game. He plays decent D, his offense is a joke but to me so is Okafors unless he is spoonfed

Here is a question to everybody.... Would it be easier to replace a 4 or a 5 with a strong dominating player? :cool:

[Ampsportsduo]

Let's all agree to disagree, i can't see how some people don't realize that Okafor is now a liability for us but so be it. The only way i think we can keep him and really be a true contender is if we had a true all start SG that could carry the team.

I'm all for agreeing to disagree. I jumped into the discussion because of what I feel is markedly unfair characterizations that try to dramatically downplay what Mek offers to this team.

If people want to say that Diaw is more important and having an undersized frontline is detrimental, that's a fair opinion, but to call Okafor a liability isn't accurate. Everyone wants to blame him, when he helps the team on the defensive end as much as anyone (except when Crash takes over). As for Mek getting "spoonfed" easy shots, every player on the team does, that's what good ball movement creates. Diaw's been tremendous with his passing and scoring, but his defensive limitations are comparable to Mek's on the offensive end. Mek's a solid player and just because he's paired with another undersized big man doesn't mean he should be constantly questioned by the fans.

Mek would get killed on these forums, if he played like Boris has on some nights. Diaw has appeared disinterested and his high turnover nights have been brutal. I like Boris, but he's far from infallable as some here suggest. I just think Mek deserves better, even if he's not the solution for this team. He's been through a lot of dysfunction that many of the fans haven't endured, and perhaps most importantly he recognizes he still has some work to do, "I'm getting there," he said. "I'm not quite there yet. But with some more work and patience, I'm going to get there."

[Ampsportsduo]

Here is a question to everybody.... Would it be easier to replace a 4 or a 5 with a strong dominating player? :cool:

I'd say neither. Dominating big men are the rarest of assets in the league, which is the crux of the disagreement. If they grew on trees Rasha Nesterovic and Jermaine O'Neal wouldn't be overpaid or even in the league.

[teej]

I dont understand that part... what do you mean hes supposed to be our best starter?

He was the building block of the franchise, the most marketed player (although marketing was/is a joke), and is the most highly paid player on the team, and did I mention he was the highest draft pick and is in his prime?

Make no mistake, I love the guy, but ro whoever said Howard was the only dominating 5 in the East so how can we not contend. First, you're forgetting Bosh, who I'd take over OK50, and second, its because the other teams have players that outmatch us in other areas. And Garnett could beat OK50 one on one, and Z Ilgauskas plays well against him. Thats three teams. Plus LAL with a more manly Gasol of late and SAS with Duncan in the west, and all the contenders that dont have dominating 5's have dominating 4's...we have neither...

[Robertpel9]

Just getting home from dinner after going to TWC arena to watch us get destroyer by the pacers in potentially the worst half of basketball i have ever watched in my life (without exaggerating - it was THAT bad).

I try to delude myself into thinking we are now a good team. We are not. We are a mid pack team and really even if we play more consistently we are a 1st MAYBE 2nd round playoff team MAYBE

For the record Okafor misses 2 Q1 DUNKS - but having said that the entire starting lineup played like trash. Many flaws were highlighted tonight, Okafor's as well

[teej]

Just getting home from dinner after going to TWC arena to watch us get destroyer by the pacers in potentially the worst half of basketball i have ever watched in my life (without exaggerating - it was THAT bad).

I try to delude myself into thinking we are now a good team. We are not. We are a mid pack team and really even if we play more consistently we are a 1st MAYBE 2nd round playoff team MAYBE

For the record Okafor misses 2 Q1 DUNKS - but having said that the entire starting lineup played like trash. Many flaws were highlighted tonight, Okafor's as well

Okafor has the flu, if you don't know. I am not counting his last two-three games.

And I wouldnt say Diaw played like trash.

And for you guys who think I hate the guy, I bought his jersey today :biggrin:

[ALuhrs704]

this had to be the worst game ive watched being a bobcats fan, not only because we didnt hit a shot for god knowss how long in the 3rd, not only because ind seemed to score every single time they touched the ball, but also because we'd be in the 8th spot tonight. I know people on here are saying were not a good team and stuff, but shit 1 game we lose and we arent good now? bottom line, we are still 1 game back. just one game. we need to get some rest and not even look into this indiana game at all. We have a tough schedule with bos and lal coming up, but we still have teams like OKL and WAS which should be easy W's. I'm not giving up hope because of one bad game, and people who are trashing the guys should shut up because their gonna eat their words. what we had 4 games in 7 days? im not too surprised that we got waxed, but its the same game as if we lost by 1 pt at the buzzer in the standings. am i worried a little bit? yes, but i'd like to think the team that won 6 strait and puts itself in playoff contention is still here, not the one that lost to indiana by +20 in charlotte.

[ALuhrs704]

btw..... for everyone hating on mek. look at what your saying. please tell me who can we get better than mek. just think, he plays defense. just because he looks awkward on the block, and isnt a good shooter he is still a very very good player. isnt there a saying that defense wins championships??? i just love to see everyone hate on emeka because its a joke. im not sure if any player on the team is good enough for the majority of "bobcats fans" i remember a time when everyone, everyone wanted to trade gerald wallace.........

[Ghost Kat]

Are we still bashin Emeka? Someone needs to start a "Why is Diaw's defense so horrible" thread. Also, whats with Diaw when he backs down someone then just stumbles backwards and loses the ball. Diaw clearly has better offensive low post moves then Emeka, But he's foul prone on the defensive end. We rave about Diaw because he brings offense and passing, But he turns the ball over ALOT. Most of the time it's not even needless pass turn overs it's him just losing the ball or traveling.

I'll have to disagree height/weight wise we might be out of balance complared to most teams. But what Diaw lacks on defense Wallace brings over the top. What Okafor lacks on offense good passing and a new pass first mentality help give him easy shots.

Okafor is a career 14-10 guy, throw in 2 blocks maybe two assist's, Most night I can live with that. IMO what this team needs is what Sean May was suppose to be, A banger, Some big body to go in there set screens, get rebounds and knock people out the way.

[millst2]

4th Qtr against Indy they should have sat the starters and let May, Cartier, DJ, Dontell and Howard play.

May for his 3-6mins a game has been playing well, think against Indy 7pts,1blk, 2 boards.

Then I would like to see what Dontell can do. We were getting the shit kicked out of us anyways, might as well do the smart thing and let the bench knock some rust off. Hell at this rate anyways, LB's rotation is so tight, overplaying the starters they will be so damn worn out if we do make the 8th or 7th seed we will get swept more than likely due to our guys getting no rest.

8 man rotation will hurt us for sure.

[davcbow]

btw..... for everyone hating on mek. look at what your saying. please tell me who can we get better than mek. just think, he plays defense. just because he looks awkward on the block, and isnt a good shooter he is still a very very good player. isnt there a saying that defense wins championships??? i just love to see everyone hate on emeka because its a joke. im not sure if any player on the team is good enough for the majority of "bobcats fans" i remember a time when everyone, everyone wanted to trade gerald wallace.........

We all know we dont have any options except keep what we got at C right now.... also I have never wanted to trade wallace - Never! As a matter of fact, I only remember a couple people ever saying to trade Wallace and that was in order to keep J-Rich around. I do think we need a better C and I would trade for a better C in a minute if there was a better out there to trade for. Maybe package Felton and his 3/13 shooting with MEk, give DJ his starting role, and trade them for a good back up PG and a great C, but there just isnt no one available. So we keep what we got and hope for the best and bitch when we lose......:cool:

[BETCATS]

i dont know why, but every time i pass this thread and i see 'a lot of our fans suck' it is starting to rub me the wrong way.


Mv views on fair weathered fans:
We now have people taking a general interest is us. It helps the organization a lot. If you dont think it does, look at the Celtics. When they 'sucked' nobody liked them, but then when they started to look like winners, people who were too scared or too stupid to call themselves fans came out of the dark and helped 'Tha Gahden' (as i say it in my best Boston accent) record sell outs.

Bottom line: I am a happy camper we have new fans, the bandwagon is still a cart pulled by a mule.

[marcus15]

Cavs fan in the house.

We having a great year and will probably win it all this year, but everyone knows our frontcourt is about as old as you can get.

So 1 guy which you might have heard we've had interest in for a while is Emeka. Now I got no idea how yall in Charlotte feel about Okafor, so dont go crazy if you think hes untouchable and you think Cavs fans are delerious if we think we can get Okafor this summer. We really got no clue how available he is, just that hes the exact type of player we'll be going after this summer.

Now the offer I could see us making (and again dont go crazy if you think its bad), is Ben Wallace (which is a massive massive expiring contract), Sasha Pavlovic, Darnell Jackson and a 1st round pick for Okafor and a bad contract.

[Slam]

If we were to move him we aren't about to give him away.

[SirBobcat]

Now the offer I could see us making (and again dont go crazy if you think its bad), is Ben Wallace (which is a massive massive expiring contract), Sasha Pavlovic, Darnell Jackson and a 1st round pick for Okafor and a bad contract.

I am insulted and feel sick now.