Turnovers - Some Not As Bad As Others?

[spectre]

Bonnell's Blog (http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2009/03/okafor-probable-with-sore-knee.html)


One other tidbit from practice: Coach Larry Brown was asked about Boris Diaw's passing creativity and how that sometimes leads to turnovers. I liked Brown's analogy:


"It's like Forrest Gump and the box of chocolates -- you never know what you'll get,'' Brown said of Diaw's daring passes. "He sees things nobody else sees. I can live with that.''


That describes Diaw, but it also touches on Brown's view of turnovers. He hates careless, mid-court turnovers that lead to easy baskets for the opponent. But he doesn't fault players with the vision and skill to attempt great passes.


Turnovers are like double-faults in tennis: You'd prefer not to have them, but some are worse -- and worse-timed -- than others.
I know some like to look at TOs in the boxscore and if those numbers exceed...say 2...will point to this as "proof" that a player has had a bad game. Obviously LB doesn't quite agree; some TOs are "bad" and some not so bad.

Thoughts?

[davcbow]

Turnovers are turnovers and they can cost you the game especially our team because we arent a high percentage shooting team. Now I know some turnovers you cant do anything about but the bulk of our turnovers are the bad kind and those can be cleaned up in time.... I for one expect a lot less turnovers next season....:cool:

[GoBobs]

I agree sometimes turnovers are like missed shots. If a pass leads to an easy bucket by being successful I can live with guys trying to make tough passes. I would much rather see Felton or Diaw go for a sick pass and it get picked off then a defender jump a passing lane when the pass would not have put us in a better position to score. I think we have two guys in the rotation that make bad passes pretty often. Diop passes off a lot of balls he should be throwing down b/c he is not real confident with his shot all the time. Vlad just makes some lackadazical passes at times. I think Sean May can do a better job than either of these guys and also give us a threat on the box. That post up baby hook is hard to stop b/c he is such a wide body and last game he it a couple in a row which is the first time we have seen it all year. Diop needs to work on his offense all summer. His FT % sucks but there is at least plenty of room to improve. He doesn't look uncordinated if LB can get him to work on his offense and his shot all summer he could be a good player.

[teej]

I agree sometimes turnovers are like missed shots. If a pass leads to an easy bucket by being successful I can live with guys trying to make tough passes. I would much rather see Felton or Diaw go for a sick pass and it get picked off then a defender jump a passing lane when the pass would not have put us in a better position to score. I think we have two guys in the rotation that make bad passes pretty often. Diop passes off a lot of balls he should be throwing down b/c he is not real confident with his shot all the time. Vlad just makes some lackadazical passes at times. I think Sean May can do a better job than either of these guys and also give us a threat on the box. That post up baby hook is hard to stop b/c he is such a wide body and last game he it a couple in a row which is the first time we have seen it all year. Diop needs to work on his offense all summer. His FT % sucks but there is at least plenty of room to improve. He doesn't look uncordinated if LB can get him to work on his offense and his shot all summer he could be a good player.

:yeahthat:

Although Mek is as bad as Diop down low...pussyness!

[SWedd523]

Well of course turnovers are bad. But I think it's more of an effort thing to be honest with you. A lot of times, Diaw makes a bad pass and creates a turnover. But at the same time, he can make a beautiful pass and it'll lead to a bucket that could possibly start a run that does more good than a turnover does.


Personally, I'll take a person working his ass off to create something better for the team over someone that makes mistakes out of laziness. If Diaw is making a mistake because he's trying to do something good for the team, then I can live with that because he's TRYING. Everybody makes mistakes ;)

[amour217]

Sean May leads the league in turnovers: apple, cherry, chocolate, peach....

[teej]

Sean May leads the league in turnovers: apple, cherry, chocolate, peach....

I was waiting for you to say that :biggrin:

as soon as I saw turnover and amour...

[TattoodCats4life]

Sean May leads the league in turnovers: apple, cherry, chocolate, peach....

That is so very funny. I hope we keep him just for the commentary.

[GoBobs]

no oak tries to do something and gets stuffed sometimes, but diop will pass it to a guard when he is right under the basket where he should be able to get a bucket or a foul ever time. Of course he probably does not want to go to the foul line for the predictable at least one air ball and a second that is usually a toss up. I gotta say though the scene that one game with all the players getting behind him after the first air ball and then he makes the second at home might be my favorite bobcat moment. It was right up there with ryan hollins dunk on jemario moon, sean may hitting that game winning three and sean may blocking lebron for a defensive stand to end a game. if diop can hit freethrows it will change his whole game. all he has to do is toss the first one one foot farther and he will go from 38% to 88% by my calculations.

[BigMike]

:yeahthat:

Although Mek is as bad as Diop down low...pussyness!


Dude, your a broken friggen record get something new to whine about, most of us are sick of hearing it.

[amour217]

no oak tries to do something and gets stuffed sometimes, but diop will pass it to a guard when he is right under the basket where he should be able to get a bucket or a foul ever time. Of course he probably does not want to go to the foul line for the predictable at least one air ball and a second that is usually a toss up. I gotta say though the scene that one game with all the players getting behind him after the first air ball and then he makes the second at home might be my favorite bobcat moment. It was right up there with ryan hollins dunk on jemario moon, sean may hitting that game winning three and sean may blocking lebron for a defensive stand to end a game. if diop can hit freethrows it will change his whole game. all he has to do is toss the first one one foot farther and he will go from 38% to 88% by my calculations.

What do Jenna Jameson and Emeka Okafor have in common? They both get stuffed...A LOT

[spectre]

Er...back on topic?

I think Larry Brown is exactly right...all turnovers are not created equal. IMO you can lump them in 2 very general categories. First is Great Intention, Poor Execution and second would be WTF Was That?

Each of these would have multiple subcategories, but with the first you have situations where guys are trying to make a more risky play to get a better than average attempt to score. A good example would be Boris at the top of the key being manned up on D trying to get the ball to Mek underneath the goal. The paint is crowded, but if he can get it past the defenders Mek would most likely get a dunk...a very high percentage shot.

If you don't take the chance you end up passing around the circle and then taking lower percentage jump shots.

Is it worth these risks? Since Boris has entered the starting group there's no doubt Mek has gotten easier buckets and we've seen the end results with our .500 +/- record since the trade.

Like LB, I can live with that.

The second category should be self explanatory.

[Ghost Kat]

My problem is most of Diaws turnovers don't come from bad passes. He needs to work on his post up game, it's all to common that He'll try backing someone down then just stumble and fall and the other team is off to the races for a easy dunk. I'm happyto have Diaw but i think we might be giving him a little more credit then he really deserves.

[spectre]

Last night Felton had like 2 or 3 TOs in a row in the 3rd quarter and he got benched for a couple of minutes for them...mainly because I think LB felt he was getting out of control.

While he was somewhat, the 2 that I remember were NOT bad TOs. One was where he drove along the baseline and got called for stepping out of bounds (he continued thru to pass it to Mek right underneath). That was a CLOSE call. The Philly announcers showed it on the replay and his foot was right at the edge of the line.

The other was on a post up by Mek...right when Felton went to pass it in Mek bent forwards while pushing his butt into his defender which forced his balance backwards...he couldn't recover in time to get the pass.

Again, no TO is good, but the first I would take again in a heartbeat (a fraction of an inch was the difference in a slam dunk). The 2nd was just flat out bad luck.

We also mentioned the walk by DJ in the other thread; again, I'd take that every day. Chances are that'll get an easy basket or foul shots more times than not.